Topic: Supernatural

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Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
It's about time that this show got its own thread. It's awesome.

Let me start by saying that I've been reading the Supernatural comic books that have been out over the summer, and they are really good. Usually, TV show comics aren't the greatest. I don't even like the new Buffy comics. However, the Supernatural comics (revolving around John Winchester and his young sons) are very good, just as comic books. If the series didn't exist, they would still be good.
What's neat is that you think you have a feel for these characters after watching them on the show for so long, but there have been issues of this comic book where everything I think I know about Sam or Dean is thrown out the window and I see them in a new light. They're not fluff comics. They are serious story. The first arc which came out a year ago was good. This second arc (Rising Son) is rockin.


So I was psyched to watch the season premiere, but at the same time, there was a good chance that the show would jump the shark. Having a character come back from the dead like that is risky. Buffy did it, but the show was never quite the same, and having her come back was not really a positive thing for the character. Interesting story, don't get me wrong... but the show was never the same.

Supernatural was different. It was a different direction, literally. Buffy was in Heaven, Dean was in Hell. Buffy was pulled back by dark magick, Dean was saved by God. AWESOME!
For once, one of these shows isn't afraid to go to the good side for a change. They're fine to do shows about spirits and demons, but surprisingly few of them want to touch the subject of God or angels and as a result, they end up looking... uncommitted.
We've seen hints of God on the show, and we've seen Dean's faith (or lack thereof) as a topic of discussion (the Christmas episode, which was one of the best) and now we see that it was a bit of foreshadowing. Cool. What makes it more interesting is just the fact that Dean is so flawed (he comes back from hell and grabs a porn magazine... hardly the action of a saint) and not a man of faith. We see arcs in which characters are pulled to the dark side all the time, but how often do we see someone pulled out of Hell by an angel, on orders of God?

My fear is that they will turn it around completely and it will not be an angel after all. I just think that it could be such a good arc to play out, and seeing as how this is an end-times war between good and evil, it makes so much sense. I hope they don't do what most shows would do and get nervous about defining good. Too many shows are unwilling to commit.

I'm not saying that I need Dean to open a church and feed the poor. I just like this element.

And it's such a contrast to the Sam story, which was also awesome. Sam can kill demons with his mind. Neat!
But while Dean is hanging with angels, Sam is hanging with a demon. Does that mean something? I don't know. Maybe Ruby is working toward redemption, but Sam has definitely gotten darker over the course of last season, so it would be interesting to see how Dean's arc plays off of Sam's arc. Will they work together (the stories, not the brothers) or will they be two contrasting viewpoints?


At first, when they had a psychic on, I was a little upset that they didn't bring back Missouri. In retrospect, it was probably better that they left her out this time smile

The show has done well with working in elements of actual folklore and religions. Even obscure elements that I didn't know about until I researched them from the show. I hope they keep it up.

The thing is, the premiere has my psyched. Moreso than a season premiere has had me in a good long while, for pretty much any show. I have so many questions and I'm on the edge of my seat.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#2 2008-09-21 7:50 pm
SFB44
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Definitely a great premiere. I'm glad they are introducing angels and GOD, it's about time they get some official help. I flipped out when Sam did his mental Exorcism on that demon in the diner, that was awesome. When Castiel showed up, I was so worried Bobby was gonna get killed, what a relief. Pretty neat that he's actually an Angel. As usual, they showcased more great rock music...

I'm looking forward to getting to watch last season again in November when it comes out on Blu Ray, already available on DVD.
Last edited by SFB44 (2008-09-21 7:51 pm)
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#3 2008-09-21 7:51 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
funny side note... You know how the studios always send out press packages to promote the new seasons? They usually have an episode or two and maybe some gimmicky trinket.

This year, Warner Bros sent out... A Bible.

I guess they are really going there. Cool
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#4 2008-09-21 7:53 pm
SFB44
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
It's about time!
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#5 2008-09-21 7:54 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I want to watch the whole series again. The more we see, the more past episodes come back to haunt us. Remember the episode with Julie Benz, "Faith"?

Blu-ray would be the icing on the cake.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#6 2008-09-21 8:05 pm
durkinator27
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I actually went back and watched the first two seasons about a month ago.  x3

Supernatural really is the most underrated series on television...hell, maybe in television history.  I've never been able to watch something with such a constant level of quality.  It' so great.  I'll be sad to see this show go when it does (I'm pretty confident that it will end at season 5 like Kripke says...it's not exactly raking in the ratings) but it will always be in my memory as one of the best shows on television that too few people watch.

But that's still two years away.  Right now, I'm certain I'll be loving this season.  The next two weeks look awesome.  Meg and Hendrickson, and then time travelling Dean...this show knows how to go places.
Last edited by durkinator27 (2008-09-21 8:07 pm)
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#7 2008-09-21 8:11 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Even when it goes off the air, I'm hoping they'll delve into Theatrical or DTV projects for Supernatural, like what has been done with Stargate and the X-files. It would be cool to see the Winchesters up on the big screen.
Last edited by SFB44 (2008-09-21 8:12 pm)
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#8 2008-09-22 7:24 am
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Few things that hit me right away with the premiere, and questions I've thought of.

I mentioned in the other post about the Buffy angle.  In many ways these two shows are very similar.  Here we have Dean pulled back from the dead, with some kind of "Supernatural" purpose.  Buffy.  Sammy is now going more and more into his demon vanquishing, is it good, bad, we don't know?  Is he obsessed?  Willow.  We also have the old guy as the mentor.  Giles.  Now, having said all that, I think SN's angle on this is 100 times more interesting.  The reason is that these are the characters, and their good points and flaws have always been there.  Buffy's problem, IMO, was that the characters morphed into something utterly opposed to themselves in the early seasons.  I realize this is the 4th season, but the characters are still the same, more or less.  Most sci-fi shows are horrified by this idea.  We have to change them!  Change every year!  No I say.  The stories change, but you can't change the characters.  That's something you do on Beverly Hills 90210 or some garbage.  Genre shows should not.

That's what super heroes are.  They have a backstory, but what you see is what you get.  This is what I love most about this show.  They are combining elements constantly from X-Files, Kolchak, Buffy, Ghostbusters, whatever, and yet the characters are extremely human.

Now, as for the "God" angle.  Look I'm not religious at all.  Do I "believe"?  Not entirely sure.  Then again, I don't believe there are really Klingons either, but I loved Star Trek.  And yet, metaphorically, the concept of God and the Devil is still the most interesting and human story that can be told.  It's the "The Greatest Story Ever Told" after all.  So again, even with my agnostic tendencies, the story and the episode was very interesting. 

Yes, most TV shows are simply not willing to get into any kind of religious subjects.  Though I doubt we'll see any preachers endorsing this show (it is very violent).  I just hope they don't get protested.  However, I applaud the show for being honest about that dude being an Angel.  Whedon played that way too far into the metaphoric.  If there is a Supernatural power, isn't it therefore "God"?  Maybe not 100% Judeo-Christian-Muslim verbatim, but it's the same idea.  Will they reveal a twist that this isn't really an Angel and all that?  Maybe, but I doubt it.  Let's not forget, that if they are indeed even loosely following the Bible, there will always be good vs. evil, until Judgement Day.  I hope they're not going in that direction! 
In other words, this season will be about a mission for Dean, more so than a mission for God, I think.

Two other thoughts.  One, I hope, regardless how this turns out, that Dean doesn't become a full "believer."  Without his flaws, doubts, and struggles, he isn't Dean.  Second, the actress/character they've got as Ruby now is eerily young looking.  Talk about robbing the cradle!
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#9 2008-09-22 8:35 am
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Someone mentioned that Sam shouldn't be boinking Ruby because she is using someone else's body and that would be kinda like rape. I really see that, so I hope they don't go there. I'm fine having her around now and then, but it doesn't need to be sexual.

I agree that this is one of the most compelling, best acted and written shows on TV. Just seeing the plot unfold so naturally, yet without being forced or too convoluted, as some shows tend to get with their mythology (The X-Files). They are also not losing sight of their goal and ruining everything (Buffy season seven).
I do agree with Griz about the direction that Buffy went, but I also don't agree. Was Willow out of character? Yes. But that was supposed to be her arc. She was supposed to be playing a part and trying to escape her true self (see Restless). And the magick addiction had been built that way since early on. So while I won't say I liked her later on, it did fit who she was early on... until season 7 when they threw her entire arc out the window for the sake of pleasing "groups" and completely ruined her character. Apparently, there are good drugs that are okay for addicts to take. It's just as powerful as heroine... but it's good heroine. Whatever.
Buffy's progression was drastic, but didn't seem forced to me. I think that given the things that she went through, she changed appropriately.
Xander did well, except that he was completely useless toward the end.

Now, Sam has changed a lot. His goals and motivation has changed since season on of Supernatural. He's a darker character. Sam in season 1 would not have been the same Sam that we saw in that episode last year where Dean Loki (sp?) had Dean die for a few months and Sam went all super-killer. Sam used to be a big thinker before he acted. He was the computer guy. He's changed. Not nearly as much as, say, Willow. Still some though.
Similarly, I think Dean has become more of the type of character who wouldn't mind living happily ever after, if ever given the chance. In season 1, he was about the mission and obeying his father.

So they grow, but within the limits of who they are. You barely notice it. It's really well done.


Should Dean become a full believer? I think he can find faith, despite his flaws. I mean, the typical TV religious person is this wooden weirdo who never does anything that a normal person would do. In real life, we're flawed. We're not 7th Heaven characters. We curse. We spit. We fight. So, I don't think that Dean has to lose the things that make him Dean, even if he does find more faith. I think that his trying to be better could be interesting, but we are who we are, so... within the limits of who he is, there can be growth.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#10 2008-09-22 4:22 pm
Grizzlor
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I see Dean moving more towards the James Woods character from John Carpenter's Vampires, although not nearly as psychotic or over the top.  Your points on Buffy are probably right.  The other advantage Supernatural has is there are really only two principle characters, whereas Joss was having to write for a half dozen or more.  I also don't think the Ruby/Sam relationship is sexual at all.  At least not now.  But I do think it's clear that at some point, possibly during this season, Sam and Dean are destined to have a confrontation about his powers and Ruby.
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#11 2008-09-22 4:41 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I haven't seen John Carpenter's Vampires in a really, really, really long time. I actually don't like many vampire movies.

Good point about the number of characters. At the same time, there are shows like Lost or Battlestar Galactica which have even more than Buffy did and they don't have trouble. Thing that's interesting is that people tend to react badly to any attempt at really expanding the cast on a regular basis. Ruby and Bela didn't go over well. Jo wasn't loved by all (though I still like her). Seems like Bobby is really the only non-Winchester that has ever really managed to make his mark so far. Castiel stands a good chance of being popular though.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#12 2008-09-23 6:00 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I hope I am not being sexist, but the women on the show have often been fairly one dimensional and kind of fake.  The men have been much more powerful.  John Winchester clearly being the best.  I really like the Werewolf lady, but she only had one episode.
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#13 2008-09-23 6:13 pm
durkinator27
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Grizzlor wrote:

I hope I am not being sexist, but the women on the show have often been fairly one dimensional and kind of fake.  The men have been much more powerful.  John Winchester clearly being the best.  I really like the Werewolf lady, but she only had one episode.
I totally agree with you.  Don't get me wrong, I love some of them.  Ellen was pretty cool (more or less a female Bobby), and I'm someone that actually does dig Ruby.  But most of the time there really isn't a huge amount of depth.  I feel like that might be more because of the network execs, though; the writers like the stories about the guys, but then are reminded that there has to be some women in the show, so they kind of get shoehorned in there.
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#14 2008-09-23 8:56 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Some of the women have been weak, but there have been a number of memorable women that I'd like to see again.

Jo was good, but in a sisterly way.
Ellen needs to come back.
Ruby was more annoying at first than she has been in her last few appearances.
Missouri was a good character.
Cassie from "Route 666" was a good character to have around Dean.
Sarah from "Provenance" should appear again too.

Most of them are from season 1. I think that the execs did meddle a little, wanting more love interest types, which doesn't suit a road trip series, since the guys are always moving around. When Bela and Ruby were showing up every week, it started to get annoying. I was waiting for them to hitch a trailer to the back of Dean's car just to make it easier for them to tag along.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#15 2008-09-24 2:01 pm
durkinator27
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
lol, Cassie?  Really? 

I am one of the very solemn few who actually enjoyed Megalyn Echikinwoke's (sp?) performance on The 4400.  But she was awful on Supernatural, and her character was just annoying.
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#16 2008-09-24 7:38 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Really? I liked her. She brought out a different side of Dean which I thought was interesting.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#17 2008-09-24 9:02 pm
durkinator27
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Maybe it was the episode.  I just hated that episode with a fiery passion.  I still remember her character coming off as annoying, though.  I get what they were trying to do with Dean, and I liked it, I just didn't like the girl they chose to do it with and the episode they chose to do it in.
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#18 2008-09-24 9:07 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Yeah, a lot of people feel that way, I guess. I think that's one of the episodes that Kripke dislikes the most. I just didn't hate it and thought she had some potential.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#19 2008-09-25 8:26 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Another home run episode. First of all, it was great to see some of the people that Sam and Dean couldn't save. More than that though, these were people whose deaths were left with sketchy elements which some shows would have just dropped. However, in true Supernatural form, they went for these topics head on.
Meg (looking damn good for a dead chick) comes back and raises all of the questions about how the guys have been handling demons. Shooting without question (and whatever else Sam may or may not be doing). She addresses the fact that Ruby is essentially torturing and killing innocents by being around.
And the way Dean reacted to the appearance of these people, by feeling the guilt in a way that was different than the others, playing into his "I'm not worth it" attitude was well done too. As was his reaction to Castiel and the revelation about God and Revelations.
We have Dean saying that he thought he was balancing out his less than noble ways by saving people, but Meg countering that argument by saying that they have allowed innocents to die after being taken over by demons.
We have the reveal that Lilith went to town on those victims back in the police station before killing them, which is just not pleasant.
And finally, we have Dean saying that he thought angels were supposed to be all good and friendly helper types, which Castiel responds to by saying "Read the Bible."
Classic.
For once, a TV show is getting some of this stuff right!

It's not preachy, but it's addressing the religious side and not holding back. Though I'd have liked Castiel to mention that the badness of the world was a decision made by man, but I'm just nitpicky like that.


I found it interesting that Dean went right to Sam and Bobby with his news, but Sam is still keeping secrets about Ruby. But the "Sam is working with a demon" thing is complicated by the fact that Sam is a believer (which goes back to the Christmas episode).

It's just texture and layers to the story... it's being done very well. I've heard that this show is one of the most requested by military personnel overseas. I think they even honored Jared and Jensen in some way. I just want to know why this isn't one of the most acclaimed shows on TV.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#20 2008-09-26 7:05 am
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Good review Info.  As for the show's popularity with the troops, that's cool to hear.  Frankly, if I were over there, other than sports, there are very few shows I would bother requesting.  Television bad.  Supernatural is also wildly popular with the tweenie and teen girls, as evidenced if you've ever checked out the hornet's nest on the show's official message board!  Hardy Boys of today I guess.

In terms of the religious stuff, I liked how Dean still is very skeptical.  I was also kind of shocked he didn't believe in the Devil, even after being in Hell?  Huh?  I'm a bit leery on the Lilith part though.  But Apocalypse Now?  Well, I guess if you're going to, you might as well do it by the Book, as they say!  Ha ha. 

As for Sam, I think he's always been the compassionate one, not to mention a bit too gullible.  I still foresee a confrontation on Ruby at some point. 

Can't wait for the 1973 episode next week though, I'm sure we'll have a steady stream of Dean one-liners.  And it seems he will face off with Yellow Eyes, but can't kill him.
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#21 2008-09-26 12:47 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Well, last season, there was a demon who told Dean that Satan was a myth. Apparently, even some demons have met the big bad. I think that's part of where Dean's confusion comes from. Remember, Satan isn't like grand master of Hell. It's not his heaven. Hell is punishment for Satan, just like everyone else. That's why he wants out.

I look forward to seeing the confrontation about Ruby. Like I said, the textures of this show are awesome. Now we have to ask the question of whether or not there can be redemption for Ruby, who is a demon.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#22 2008-09-26 1:01 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I think I'm gonna love this season.  That's really all I have to say about it.
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#23 2008-09-26 1:14 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
It has had a rather awesome start. They'd have to be incredibly lame to fumble it now.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#24 2008-10-03 3:25 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Last night's episode "In the Beginning" was terrific.  Mitch Pileggi was great!  Dean (Ackles) was at his best.  The number of in-jokes was outstanding.  Probably the best flashback/back in time episode I've ever seen on Television (yeah even better than The Guardian).
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#25 2008-10-03 7:18 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Seriously, this season has been stellar. Which says a lot, since the series has always been great. This episode, again, showed layers and textures that were amazing. Not only do we get the reveal that Mary (man, that actress looked like her older self) was a hunter, but we find out how she knew old Yellow Eyes. To cap it all off, she knew him because Dean introduced them! It's one of those details that any other show would have just thrown in for no good reason, but with Supernatural, you can actually look back to earlier seasons and it makes things click. Fantastic!

Not only that, but Mary's family wasn't cardboard. They were interesting and well acted. I could see following them around as their own series (if they didn't die). Maybe that will be the next series of comic books. We always thought that John was the kick-ass hunter that started it all. Turns out, it runs in the family. He was late to the game.

All of the reveals in this episode worked, and made me want to know more (WTF is the endgame?! What's Sam's deal?!). The element of the Colt was cool. I love this world that they've built up over the years and how it all continues to play into the plot.

Yes, the actors have been delivering some of their best this season. On top of that, the writers have taken the game to a whole new level. Considering that this is season 4 and there has been nothing but steady growth, I'm incredibly impressed.
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Looks like Charlie will be joining the inner circle in her next episode. Should be interesting.
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#652 2013-05-03 8:50 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I kinda feel like this year has the same issue as Community... new show runner, so in some ways, I'm watching to see what's different and whether or not it will work. Especially after season 7... yikes.

But as we near the end of the season, I think it's safe to say that this year was successful. The arc was true to the series. The leviathans are gone (except for an appearance in Purgatory, which made them look way cooler than they normally were). The recurring characters have been nice additions to the show... though I feel like they're forcing this notion that Charlie is a little sister to them, when it really doesn't feel that way. If they stopped making her seem like family and let her just progress naturally, things would be so much better.

Plus, the show has made me believe that there is still story to tell with this series. The Men of Letters storyline opens a lot of doors, and the new lair feels organic to the series. It shouldn't since it's this big-ass batcave for the Winchesters. It should feel awkward and out of place, since they usually don't have a base of operations and they're just handed a hunter mansion. But it works. It looks like someplace that they would live and hang out. It looks like someplace *I* would want to hang out. I mean, a shooting range?! C'mon! That's friggin' awesome.

The show has really bounced back from season 7, and it seems like Jeremy Carver really knows this universe and why it works. He made all of the right decisions, coming off of season 7's mistakes and repairing them without ignoring them.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
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#653 2013-05-11 4:51 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
As I said before, this season kinda felt like Community to me, where I was kinda keeping an emotional distance and waiting to see if it would hold up. I was a little guarded and I wasn't sure how things would turn out, so the whole season was a little off (because of me, not the writing)

"Clip Show" was pretty much the end of that. Yes, they could have had an entire episode devoted to hunting down people that Sam and Dean have saved, but that would have come too close to invalidating the entire series. As it was, that part of the story was played with enough restraint to pack a huge emotional punch.

Sarah was always a character that I wanted to come back. I thought she could be a recurring or even regular character. She made that big an impact on me. I just loved the way she interacted with the guys. So to have her come back to the show with this story was exciting and scary. See, the writers knew that she was a character that people loved. She was one of the few characters who would put us on the edge of our seats, so when she was filling Sam in on her life, I was a little heartbroken. There was no way for her to really come back now, but it was still nice to see her and let them save her one more time. Then, they didn't save her... and that moment was intense. It packed way more punch than when Bobby finally left the show (I'm not sure we needed ghost Bobby to happen at all). It was brutal. Yet, the writers made sure that her death didn't invalidate her season 1 episode or her living through that episode, because she had a daughter. The fact that they saved her back then still matters.

The writers seem to have recognized all of the potential dangers in this plot and addressed them beautifully. And having Crowley use the Supernatural books to make it all happen... again, well done. No McGuffin. Just good ol' continuity biting us in the ass.

There is a problem that I've had with Crowley, pretty much since season 6. I've never really thought of him as super threatening. As the king of Hell, he's pretty underwhelming. Again, the writers recognized and adjusted for that story weakness. Abaddon pretty much does a spit-take when she hears that Crowley is running the place, and she escapes (presumable to take over). She is a much more intimidating foe than Crowley, if you ask me. She's compelling as a character, but not comic relief, as Crowley has been known to be at times. I could buy her as the ruler of Hell, with all of the others out of the way.

The idea of closing the gates of Heaven and Hell is playing out really well. There is the proper amount of uncertainty about the plans, but I have a genuine desire to see them succeed. The problem is that once they made demons and angels a major part of the show, it was hard to find a reason for those beings to step away and go back to the way things were in the early seasons. If they just vanished, it would seem like a plot hole somehow. But this is a way to earn that, and closing off those story options for good is a challenge to the writers and makes things interesting to me. Will they actually do it? I hope so.

Of course, I expect a few angels and demons to be stuck behind. After all, we know that Misha is signed on for next year. But what will it mean if he is cut off from Heaven? And will Crowley and Abaddon be in Hell or on Earth when the gate to hell is closed? Hmm.

I find the possibilities exciting, which is weird because the show is finishing season 8 and you'd think it would be lifeless at this point. Jeremy Carver has done an excellent job of getting the show back on track, making it feel like the good old Supernatural again, and making me eager to see what seasons 9 and 10 will look like. As a fan of Being Human, I knew he had it in him. I'm just so relieved to see the show succeed again.

I always thought that whether or not "As Time Goes By" worked as an episode would depend on how things played out after that episode aired. I think it's safe to say that the episode was a game-changer, in the best possible way. It introduced a compelling new element to the series (the Men of Letters background and lair) as well as a compelling villain.

Can't wait to see the finale, but it's going to suck to be in reruns for months afterward!
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#654 2013-05-11 11:01 pm
Slider_Quinn21
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I agree with almost all of that.  Season 8 has been really refreshing, and I think it's a much stronger show than it's been the last couple of years.  It seems more focused, and it seems like the show respects its own history more than it has recently.  Clip Show really showed that, in addition to really respecting the fans (they didn't shove down our throats who these people were - you either remembered or you didn't).

The Heaven/Hell stuff is pretty great too.  I hope they actually go through with it instead of using it as a tease.  Although what does it mean for humans?  Do humans still go to Heaven or Hell when they die?  And the demon tablet says the gates are closed forever - would Heaven also be closed forever?  Because Metatron talks like it's temporary.

One thing really bothered me.  So Crowley says he's keeping his demons away so they can't be used in the 3rd trial.  But Dean and Sam actually get Abaddon out *before* they know that.  And I know they felt pretty comfortable with the magic bullet, but that just seemed like a terrible idea when they didn't really need to do that.  She's (by far?) the most powerful demon they've ever faced - why even risk it?  It only makes sense if they knew that they weren't going to get another demon - but Dean even says it's just easier to use one they already have.  I'm going to guess it was a result of rewrites?
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#655 2013-05-11 11:29 pm
Informant
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Possibly. The distracting phone call did prevent them from getting right to work... But it does seem like a questionable plan at best.


I guess closing the gates would make those places like Purgatory. Nearly impossible to get out of and hard to even get into, unless you belong there. Just a guess though.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#656 2013-05-12 3:33 pm
Slider_Quinn21
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Informant wrote:

Possibly. The distracting phone call did prevent them from getting right to work... But it does seem like a questionable plan at best.
Well, here's another question.  Did she need her body?  Could the injections go directly into her brain and still work?  I mean, it's not like she's using a fully functioning body anyway.  And they were smart to keep the hands severed, but why were they even dug up?

It was just really sloppy work by them.  And again, I have to assume that, at some point in the scriptwriting process, they knew that Crowley was keeping demons away....and that's why they felt the need to do the Abaddon plan.
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#657 2013-05-12 3:40 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Yeah, that is a fair guess. It didn't look like Abaddon came back to life until enough of her was sewn together. Judging from the way her hand moved, I would say that the demons don't just take the brain, they inhabit the whole body.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#658 2013-05-16 8:02 am
Grizzlor
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Okay, well, I thought the last two episodes, including the finale, were very good, a lot of suspense.  That said, I thought the ending largely was a let down......only because I wanted more!!!!  I thought the fallen angel plus Crowley vs. Abaddon battles would have been far more interesting than what they did this season.  Also, I really hope we've seen the last of Kevin Tran. 

PS: this is from out in left field, but how about next season they cast God as Mel Brooks?  He ain't dead yet right?
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#659 2013-05-17 9:18 pm
Slider_Quinn21
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Well, that was definitely better than what we've seen.  For the first time, it feels like the stakes were really raised.  However, I do think they missed out on something big.  I think closing both Heaven and Hell could've been a pretty cool game-changer.  It could've left behind some demons to fight while taking the show in a really exciting direction.

As it is...now what?  Metatron is the main villain, but what's his goal?  He's cleansed Heaven but now he's there all by himself?  Castiel is probably powerless, but what about the rest of the angels?

Cass is back for next season.  So is Metatron.  I imagine it'll be the three of them versus him.  But I think Grizzlor is right - is there any way this ends without the big man showing up?
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#660 2013-05-18 8:35 am
eber3
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
God is going to play Mel brooks? Does God have an agent? jk smile

Metatron's master plan for next season....

First he's going defeat StarScream, regather his force and take on Optim... wait wrong guy. Ok, first METATRON is going track down this lady and move her into his deluxe apartment in the sky...

http://web.tiscali.it/moonlighting/agnes.jpg

Then he's going to buy Borders, Barnes & Noble, and Amazon in addition to becoming a proof reader for both Doubleday and Pocket books. Yet he is still going to have to much time to fill, leading to his career as a television game show host after his old college buddy asks him to help co-host a series he's working on...

http://www.revolutionsf.com/images/cont … booger.jpg

http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb15 … e2cd19.jpg

And I could go on from there... but after this point I'd just be guessing.
WAAAAAAADDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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#661 2013-05-18 9:51 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Well, I finally watched the finale. And I want to start by saying once again that this season was a success. When it came to the finale, I was on the edge of my seat, waiting to see what happened next. Hoping. Dreaming. Theorizing.

Was I disappointed? Well, in a way, yes. I wanted the gates of Heaven and Hell closed because it would be an interesting shift for the series. I wanted to see what would happen if Sam completed the trials and redeemed Crowley. But, since when do the Winchesters ever win in a finale? In season 1, Yellow Eyes beat them. Season 2, they failed to stop the demon from being set free. Season 3, they failed to save Dean. Season 4, they failed to stop Lucifer from being released. Season 5... well, they actually won that one but Sam lost his soul. Season 6, they failed to stop Castiel from opening the gate to purgatory. Season 7, they won, but that was an anomaly of a season.

So, why should they win this year? It seems to me that the Winchesters always get in the way of their own success.

The story kept my interest throughout the entire hour. The twists were successful. Seeing Crowley turning was intriguing. I actually hope they keep him altered. The visual of seeing the angels falling was beautiful and ominous at the same time. Did they close the gates of Heaven? No. But the same result was earned. The angels are no longer capable of swooping in or sucking us into their battles. They kinda become a non-issue at this point. And I love how this event is anchored in a storyline from seasons ago. Because it happened to Anna, it somehow makes sense to see it happen now. Though it didn't look like each of these angels was being born as a human.

And the story is interesting, because it presents the angels as having forgotten what they were supposed to protect. Then they are forced to live as humans so that by the time they get back to Heaven, they will know their job. It's clever. Do we really need to see Metatron again or revisit the Heaven story? I don't know. I guess it depends on what this three season arc is all about.

But then we have the failure to close the gates of Hell. Crowley is pretty much out as king of Hell either way. I'm not sure what to think of this. I wanted it to happen. I guess it still could happen (is there an expiration date on trial juice?). I guess I don't have enough information on what happens next, so I can't say what I think of this. Like the Men of Letters story, it all depends on how it plays out.

What I can say is that I'm not sure why Sam would stop the trials because Dean wants him to live. I get that they needed to end this cycle that they have, and it was actually more shocking that one of them didn't die in a finale. But if he could close the gates of Hell, you'd think that would be a pretty big priority. But maybe ending the cycle is what it's all about and maybe something will come of that. Sam is purified now, as evidenced by the fact that his blood was working on Crowley.

Oddly, if he did close the gates and died, he would go to Heaven and they'd have an inside man. Hmm...

The episode left me with a ton of questions about what comes next, and I'm really eager to see what happens with it. Like when the demons were released in season 2, we're just left to wonder what this means to the story.



I pretty much turned on the show in season 7 with the Leviathans. It was wrong for the show. And when that switch flips, it's hard for it to flip back. I'm not sure that many shows have ever done it. When the switch is flipped, I'm pretty much looking for the flaws and I have no faith in a show. But the writers this year knew their stuff. They addressed the problems with season 7 head on and they wrote a story that was true to the series. It worked on every level and the switch was flipped back. I went into the finale with excitement, not dread. The finale did not let me down. It did not go to Stupidville. I am not fearing what this plot will mean to next season, because I have that faith in the show back. It didn't work out the way I wanted it to, but if it went the way I wanted it to, what kind of season finale would that be?

In closing, Supernatural is good.


Favorite Dean line: "What show have you been watching?"

Favorite Sam line: "So?"

In context, they were funny smile
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#662 2013-05-18 10:29 pm
Slider_Quinn21
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I thought it was very interesting that, despite the fact that there are presumably Leviathan out there, they were never really addressed again.
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#663 2013-05-18 10:43 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
Yeah. I thought that was a very wise decision. They did appear in Purgatory, but even then they were way cooler than season 7 Leviathans. The way they flew in and splashed down before taking human form... one problem with them in season 7 was that they didn't seem like anything special, despite the fact that they took forever to beat. The Purgatory Leviathans were unlike anything we have seen on the show before.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#664 2013-05-18 11:12 pm
SFB44
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
It will be interesting to see what happens with Crowley next season. Will he end up somewhat like Michael from Stargate: Atlantis who was transformed from a Wraith into a human and then reverted back part of the way but not completely. It would be interesting to see him embrace his humanity and try to redeem himself given his wealth of knowledge of all things "Supernatural" and of course his personality. I can just imagine him showing up at the lair with beer and pie... "Hello boys".
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#665 2013-05-19 8:47 pm
JLBanker
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I too enjoyed the finale.  Not a big fan of cliffhangers but it will give the show something great to build off of next season.  I heard somewhere (maybe in this thread) that Jeremy Carver has a 3 year plan.  I really kind of hope the show makes it to season 10 so we can see that plan but I also kind of hope they end it so it doesn't live long enough to have another season 7 like story.
Joshua Banker
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#666 2013-05-19 8:58 pm
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)
I think that Carver has proven my belief that the series can go on for a very long time as long as they have a show runner with a plan who knows the series. In the right hands, they could even cut back on the Winchesters and survive. But they need to switch show runners when they run out of ideas. Sera Gamble had a strong idea for season 6, and I liked that arc. But she wasn't making long-term plans, so it was like she was waiting for the show to be over. Carver essentially launched a new series and it has worked out great.

I don't know where his three year plan leads, but I think his success has proven that it doesn't necessarily have to be the end.
"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel
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#835 Yesterday 8:10 pm

Informant
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Re: Supernatural (beware the spoilers within)

A lot happened in "King of the Damned". Some of it was pretty interesting. The first blade is kinda reminding me of Sam when he was on demon blood. They're playing some different notes than the demon blood story, but the similarities are there. Considering how the demon blood turned out, I'm curious to see where the first blade story goes.

As someone (I forget who, sorry) mentioned earlier, it is nice to see Sam being Sam. It's interesting to see him take on the role of the only "normal" person in all of this craziness.

Gadreel is turning out to be pretty interesting. I like the dimension that they've added to the character. He's not eeeevil, but he's not exactly good either. He's not stupid, but he sure ain't smart.


I liked parts of the episode, but it also felt a little... crowded. Which led to it feeling uneven. We were going back and forth between the Heaven war and the Hell war, between comedic tones and dark tones. I wasn't sure what to make of some of it. I didn't really need to see Crowley's son. That probably could have been left out, unless it plays a huge and important part later. But taking him out of the timeline means that Sam and Dean can't use his ghost to track down Crowley's bones, freeing Bobby from his deal with Crowley. Then again, we already know that Bobby ended up in Hell until Sam got him out. So does history change? Did we already see that altered history? Does this mean that we can forget that Bobby was a ghost and that the Leviathans happened? I'm not opposed to that, come to think of it.

Abbadon was killed by the first blade. I'm kinda bummed, since I've never liked Crowley as the leader of Hell. He's too comedic and she was a really good villain. I can't say that he death doesn't fit the pattern with other powerful demons and angels that we've seen, being killed before the finale. It's just kind of a bummer since she was good at being bad. With that war settled, I'd be cool with Crowley going away and staying away for a good long time. I like him, but in smaller doses than we've been getting.

"What would you rather have? Peace or freedom?"
-- Castiel

Re: Supernatural

Season 10
Episode 1
"Black"

I wasn't sure what to expect from "Deanmon" (as the promos call him). Would he be good? Would he be evil? Turns out, he's both. He is Dean, but not. He isn't like soulless Sam. Dean is still in there. But at the same time, there's that spark of humanity that Dean has always had that is much dimmer now. It's a weird balance that they found here, but it seems like it's about where he should be. The writers obviously put some thought into what this twist would mean, while lesser writers would have just made him bad and that would be that. If you watch The Vampire Diaries, you see main characters hurting, murdering and sometimes raping innocent people all the time, and it is never depicted as being as horrible as it should be. It's just forgotten about. I love that Supernatural doesn't take stuff like this lightly.

It raises the question of whether Dean will ever go back to the way he was. I mean, he probably will... but does he necessarily have to? This is still Dean. Unlike everything that happened to Sam before, this isn't some outside influence. This is actually Dean. Just not Dean. It's weird.

I was worried that they were going to push Sam too far, just for the sake of making Sam as dark as demon Dean. But nothing that Sam did came across as unnatural or unexpected. He is hunting. Yes, he tortured a demon, but it's not like they haven't done that before. The parts with Sam hunting Dean were so interesting, I almost could have lived with seeing this storyline entirely from Sam's point of view. To see him hunting a demon just like we always see him, only Dean is the demon this time. But that would make it hard for us to get a handle on what Dean is right now.

I don't know what to make of Cole yet. He appears to be human. He says that he has ties to Dean that go way back, which would seem to imply that this is pre-demon Dean. Is he a hunter? Is he law enforcement? I have no idea. But what I like about this story is that it's human! It seems like we haven't had a human on the show for a really long time. I would like to see this develop into bringing the show back to Earth.

And that brings me to the angel storyline. I was okay, don't get me wrong. I just don't feel like I have a team to cheer for in this game. We've seen he angels going round and round with what it means to be on Earth and mingling with humans and who believes what, and what they're willing to do to each other. I was hoping that the war had played out and that we were done with it, because it kinda takes me out of the more interesting story, which is what is happening to Sam and Dean right now. Maybe they should just spin off the angels so that they don't have to keep bringing that story into Supernatural. Honestly, I don't care if angels want to stay down here or go back there. Especially if those angels are just camping out and minding their own business.

Castiel's story could be interesting. To see him lose his power and grow weaker is a solid story to tell. But why keep him separate from the Winchester storyline? Why not just have it happen as he and Sam look for Dean? They don't need an angel/heaven storyline just to have an excuse for keeping him around.


And Crowley. He is a good sidekick for Dean on this trip he's on. That said, one Dean is back to normal, I think that it's time to do away with Crowley. Lock him in Hell or kill him off, or whatever. But he really should go. After a while, if the good guys don't kill the bad guy, they seem incompetent. And if the bad guy doesn't kill the good guys, they seem incompetent. And if they're palling around, then the good guys don't seem like good guys and the bad guy doesn't seem like a bad guy. In which case, what story are they telling?


Overall, it is a solid start to the season. I like how they set things up. I just hope that it plays out well. smile

Re: Supernatural

I thought episode 2 was very strong.  I really liked the way they handled Cole's storyline.  These guys are monsters to certain people - they show up, "kill someone", and hit the road.  You gotta think stuff like this happens all the time.  And it was done very evenly - there's no obvious reason why Dean did it .  Unless I missed it, they never explained what happened to Cole's father.  You never see it from Dean's perspective so, if you're just watching the show, you actually side with Cole.  You want him to get his revenge.

And what I really loved is that he was a total outsider.  He didn't become a hunter.  Never even knew the lore.  He basically just trained, like Batman, to avenge the death of his father.  It was surprisingly cool, and I'm a little sorry he got his ass kicked so bad.

Never did I think the show would introduce a character that I'd be cheering for, against one of the brothers (no matter the circumstances), in his second episode.  That's good writing IMO.

Re: Supernatural

I agree. "Reichenbach" was a very solid episode and this season is turning out to be on of the most interesting season in a while. Not that the last couple of season have been bad, but this story feels personal. It's about Sam and Dean and stories that I can relate to.

Cole is a great character. There is so much emotion to this guy in his first two episodes. We identify with him because his story isn't entirely unlike Dean's story. In some ways, he's like John and Dean combined into one character. And maybe that's the point. Maybe he is supposed to mirror the humanity that Dean has lost. Whether that is what they intended or not, he's very compelling and I hope that he doesn't go away anytime soon. I would like to see him brought into the inner circle eventually.

He also has a family, which I don't think the writers felt free to do with Dean. I always thought it would be a great story for the character, but the fangirls always go crazier when they introduce a long term love interest. Cole could allow them to explore the idea of a hunter with a family. I just assume that he would become a hunter when he finds out WHY Dean killed his father.

I love how they have taken this Dean demon storyline and have used it to ground the show again and make it more human. I don't care about a war in Hell. Crowley and Abaddon exchanged snappy dialogue all year last year, but none of that had a fraction of the tension that I felt in the scene when Dean knocked Crowley down and you realized that if Dean wanted it, he could have it. and it's made creepier by how cool Dean plays it. I have no idea what's going on in his head or where he will go from scene to scene. The way it is being done just draws me into each scene.

The Castiel stuff was fine, but I just don't feel it the way I feel the Sam and Dean stuff. I could care about Castiel dying and being okay with that, but I don't need to see Heaven or other angels. I just feel like that is over. Meanwhile, I could watch an hour from Cole's point of view. He could be the best human character to be introduced since Ellen and Jo.

Re: Supernatural

Idea!

Dean passes the mark of Cain to Castiel. Castiel is not a human soul, so he cannot be corrupted by it and turned into a demon. He can use the power to take over Hell and turn it into the prison that it is meant to be for humans, demons and fallen angels alike. Finally, someone with a moral compass could be running the place!

Re: Supernatural

I do like that idea, BTW.

Did anyone watch the Supernatural Special they aired before the premiere?  It recorded on my DVR and I finally watched it last night.  It didn't reveal a lot of new info, but it's cool how into the show everyone seems to be.  I was thinking it was probably running out of gas, but I could actually see it going another 5 seasons or so.

Re: Supernatural

With the right idea, the show could last a long time. This season has been refreshing so far, with more focus on the Winchesters and less on angels and demons.

I have that special recorded. Still need to watch it

Re: Supernatural

Informant wrote:

With the right idea, the show could last a long time. This season has been refreshing so far, with more focus on the Winchesters and less on angels and demons.

Except the fact that Dean was a demon smile

Which I still think was too easy.  It's gonna kill him!  This isn't a normal procedure!  It's nothing like what happened with Crowley!

Cass shows up.

Oh.  There.  It worked.

Maybe there will be non-mark-related consequences later in the season.  But it seemed a little too quick and easy considering how things were looking through 2.9 episodes.

(BTW, Jensen Ackles is a better actor than I give him credit for)

Re: Supernatural

The interesting thing about Demon Dean was that it was still Dean. It wasn't an outside influence or an addiction. It was him, but not him. But I should say that this season has been less about Heaven and Hell, so it's been easier to care. I still find the angel stuff to be a bit much though.

I don't think the problem with Dean is really solved. It's just more of a band-aid at the moment. The mark is still there and it can still corrupt him (though he doesn't have the knife) so I'm sure it will be an issue.

I've seen people mistakenly giving Castiel the credit for curing Dean, but he really just caught Dean and held him in place so that Sam could finish the cure. I don't think it was anything that Sam and Dean couldn't have done, but a one-handed Sam is at a bit of a disadvantage against Demon Dean.

The real meat of Dean's story this year (for me anyway) has been the Cole situation. I hope that his story continues and has an impact on Dean as the season goes on.

Re: Supernatural

Well it wasn't so much that Cass did anything.  It's just that things were miraculously cured when he got there.  It was killing him.  It wasn't what happened with Crowley.  Castiel didn't think it would work.

Then it did.  It was either lazy writing or a rushed ending to get things back to "normal" by the end of this episode.

Re: Supernatural

I don't think it was lazy. The only reason that Dean could escape at all was because the cure was working. It was weakening the demon, but strengthening the human. If the cure wasn't working, there would have been nothing for Castiel to stop in the first place, since Dean would have still been trapped in the demon prison.

Re: Supernatural

Well, then the whole "am I killing Dean?" wrench was poorly executed or poorly explained.  Was Dean faking it to keep the cure from working?  Or was it just the Mark fighting back?

Because it's just left out there.  Why was it "killing Dean?"  Why was it so much different than what happened with Crowley?  If not just for false drama?

Re: Supernatural

The question was mostly about the fact that this was not a demon inside of a host body, like Crowley and the others. Since it was Dean inside of Dean, changed by the mark, Sam couldn't be sure of all of the variables.

I guess I didn't think that "am I killing Dean" was a major plot point, so I didn't put much thought into it during the episode.

Re: Supernatural

Hmmm, yeah, I guess that would change things.  But I thought it was pretty central.  Sam was worried about it.  Then Castiel and the other angel were worried about it.  Then Sam and Cass talked about it.  I thought it was one of the key points - was Sam going to have to kill Dean?  Was Deanmon too powerful for the blood cure?

Then it was like, nope, cure worked.  Just felt a little too easy.  Still a really strong episode.  Just felt like a sitcom ending to get things back to the status quo.  Which is fine because I'm not really sure the Deanmon arc had a lot of gas left.  I think it just could've been done better.

Re: Supernatural

Fair enough. smile

Re: Supernatural

I really liked the 200th episode.  Found a way to pay tribute to the show (with a ton of characters) while also being a very strong meta episode.  I did find two things very interesting:

- First time we've seen Chuck in forever.  I'm surprised that these girls didn't recognize him (which is why I didn't think it was him at first) since he's a celebrity and went to Supernatural cons.  I'm of the mind that Chuck is God so I'm interested to see if he shows up again.

- They mentioned Adam, who disappeared along with Chuck in season 5.  I almost thought remembering Adam would make the boys go on a quest to save him.  After all the lengths they've gone to save each other, they sure gave up on Adam pretty quickly.

I don't know what that'd mean, but it'd be nice if they at least tried to save him.

Re: Supernatural

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

- First time we've seen Chuck in forever.  I'm surprised that these girls didn't recognize him...

I think they did recognize him. Asian girl went up to director girl and told her somebody claimed the publisher ticket, she looked up and said something like "is that...?" and asian girl replied; "I think so." followed by the whole running over to him and asking what he thought of the play.

WAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Supernatural

Interesting.  I must've missed that.  But the fact that the mega-super-fan didn't recognize him still feels weird.  Although I guess I couldn't pick Tracy Torme out of a lineup so what do I know?

Re: Supernatural

Most authors aren't recognizable visually. Especially when they use pen names, as he did. I know what Dean Koontz looks like, but I still might not process it quickly enough to recognize him if I ever saw him. If that Game of Thrones dude ran me over in the street, I would probably just think that he was just a grumpy old guy.

I enjoyed the episode a lot too. It was a good way to go back and pay tribute to where they've been and where they're going. The play within the episode highlighted all of the core elements of who they are, which they've sort of strayed from in recent years.

When they mentioned Adam, I watched the expressions on their faces. Dean looked like he might have a new mission, which I would have loved to see him declare. It would be an awesome, awesome, awesome way for him to reclaim his humanity. Abandoning Adam was a turning point for Dean, in my eyes. It was the first time he ever walked away from family and the first time he didn't try to honor a promise that he made someone. And then they never mentioned it again.

When they said "Who is that?" and they said that it was Adam, I was curious to see if the brothers even remembered Adam. My theory was always that Dean tried to pull Sam and Adam out of Hell and something went wrong, so Castiel made him forget (tying it into what Dean had Castiel do to Lisa, which is maybe where Dean got that very uncharacteristic idea). But they did seem to remember Adam. I just hope that something comes of this. Otherwise, this is salt in an old wound of mine.

The return of Chuck was very cool and sweet. It said a lot about what is happening now. He's still there. This is still part of the plan. I'm curious to see what that means, if anything comes of it at all. Was this God's way of cleaning house in Heaven?

That said, when they were hiding the face of the visitor from the publisher and all we saw was that jacket, I was kinda hoping that the camera would swing around to reveal Adam. I held my breath for it, but it turned out to be Chuck which just threw me way off.

Re: Supernatural

Yeah I can't imagine the Adam thing just being an "easter egg" - acknowledging it means they're acknowledging it's unfinished business.  Maybe the series will end with finding some way to actually kill the devil so they have to re-open the cage, and Lucifer/Michael get out.  It'd be a lot of retread, though.  So maybe not.  And it did take a ton of crap to get Sam out.

Dean made his choice to save Sam over Adam.  But it is weird that Dean just left him there.

Re: Supernatural

I wouldn't be upset if they failed to get him out. It might be interesting to see them try and fail, because they have managed to get John and Bobby out of Hell so maybe seeing a failed attempt would make it seem hard.

But I have always wanted to see them at least try. I wanted them to feel something about it. They feel guilt and loss over soany other people, from close friends to random guest stars, so why not their own brother? Not knowing him could actually make it harder in some ways.

Re: Supernatural

So...

Dean leaves Lisa and has Castiel erase their relationship so that she is no longer in danger.

Chuck wrote the relationship into the Supernatural books.

Crowley has read the Supernatural books. So he and all of his minions know about Dean loving Lisa.

Which means that the only ones who don't know about Dean and Lisa are Lisa and Ben.

Thus leaving them in more danger than before.

Re: Supernatural

I think the reason they brought it up is because Adam is going to come back as the next big baddy. He has been trapped for some time with Lucifer in the cage getting tortured and what not. And I can see him being really pizzed off that his brothers just left him there. Maybe he has absorbed some demon powers from Lucifer or something and comes for his revenge.

Also, Dean still has that mark of Cain... the guy who killed his own brother. Seems like the only way to resolve that, short of them finding Cain and him taking the mark back, might be for Dean to do the same thing. And you know he's not going to kill Sam.

WAAAAAAAAAADDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re: Supernatural

It might be interesting to see Adam come back as a bad guy. He could certainly be more scary than Crowley is. We know that human souls can be corrupted and become demons after centuries in Hell, so what happens for a human in the cage?

It would be sad though... which could make it a great story.

On the other hand, there are still a few other loose threads from the series that could be tied to Adam's story. Where are John and Mary, since they weren't found in Heaven? Is God assembling an army of his own, somewhere else?

You know, we have been watching the show for so many years, witnessing the brothers do a lot of really bad things in the name of helping each other. What if the final season is about them being hunted? Not by bad guys, but by good ones.

Re: Supernatural

Well it's weird because we've now had two "bad guys" who have turned bad as a result of a hunter doing his job.  The human from episode two and Olivia in Ask Jeeves.  I was thinking tonight that it's possible that they're leading somewhere with that - they've already gone easy on a couple of monsters.  Maybe they're going to start digging into the collateral damage?