1

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Well, I would describe myself as a 'purist' of sorts in that I like film grain. And I sought out HD versions of the STAR WARS series without any of the 90s CG revisions.

However, having reviewed the SLIDERS PAL masters obsessively and intensively, I am no longer certain that the washed out look of Season 1 is in any way 'pure,' in any way faithful to the intention of the directors, cinematographers, lighting technicians, editors and storyboard artists (unless their intention was to create a fuzzy, out of focus, blurry storytelling product in a visual medium). I would support increasing the saturation to make it more suitable to HDTV presentation.

If we could just find some way to sharpen up these masters...

Either the AI technology gets better (it will I think) or we get a film negative scan would seem to be the only options.  Unless a re-scan of the master tapes would somehow help (and Turbine never did that themselves).

The machine time is what is expensive for any of these organizations.  You know the hell of video processing, and they are often thinking about the same things, I think.

2

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:
RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

I've been revisiting the upscale samples a bit this weekend, and actually figured something out I hadn't before. When I connect my pc to my tv, I used the tv's PC mode instead of standard for the picture quality. It did something that made the colors pop more... might be a gamma change thing. I've already got some changes to the image in vlc player I had told you about before.

The changes with PC mode made everything look gorgeous and lively and made the show feel newer and more modern.

I'm very, very, very mildly torn on this.

On one level, I think it's ridiculous to think that a TV show made decades ago can ever be made to look 'modern.' I also have a certain low level exasperation with 70s and 80s young adult/middle-grade novelists Lois Duncan and Gordon Korman who would, every few years, revise their novels to replace teletypes with fax machines and outdated musical references with current hits -- all of it completely pointless and futile. Stories set in the 'present' eventually become period pieces; the plots of PRIDE AND PREJUDICE and ROMEO AND JULIET would not happen with instant messaging and cell phones. It's fine for art to be a product of its time.

The poster child for futile efforts to keep dated works looking 'modern' is George Lucas and his asinine Special Editions which tried to make STAR WARS look like it was filmed in the 90s but only ever looked like a 70s/80s movie series with 90s effects clumsily pasted on top of the frames. These older films and shows and novels don't need to be forced into relevance for a new audience; they found their audience when they were originally released or they failed to do so.

But all you're suggesting is increasing the colour vibrance. I don't think it's harmful to SLIDERS, but I do feel that the low contrast, low saturation look of Season 1 is effective. Parallel worlds don't look like fantasy environments nor do they look like the overpolished TV commercials that Season 3 of SLIDERS often resembles. It's not a theme park version of reality; Season 1 looks like actual reality. Reality can be drab, lacking in rich colours, unpolished and that makes Season 1 all the more real.

And yet, this is instantly undermined with Season 2 which goes for a high contrast look. The colours aren't artificially amped up like in Season 3, but the increased contrast means more saturation.

Season 2 is my favourite visual look for the series with some real effort in making the image more delineated in terms of light and shadow. This is distinctly less unmodified than Season 1. So yes, Season 1 does look great when you raise the saturation a bit. And it would be great for an HDTV presentation.

This leads to another question that may or may not have an answer: is the gray, washed-out look of Season 1 deliberate? Is this actually what was intended by cinematographers Glen MacPherson and Peter Woeste? Or is the lack of colour a failure of videotape? Did the 35mm film, when transferred to what looks like a 240 lines of resolution tape format, lose colour detail and richness in the process? The fine detail and film grain of the image has clearly been muddied; has the chroma data also been diminished by the videotape format as well?

There is no way Season 1 was meant to look like it's in perpetual soft-focus like it does on the PAL masters. So was it also supposed to look like it was desaturated to gray tones?

If Season 1 had been edited on DV instead of U-Matic or such, would it look like Season 2? Was Season 1 actually supposed to look as high contrast as Season 2?

I don't know.

You could say I'm definitely not a purist, but I do empathize with Star Wars fans.  I think originals should always be accessible...

That said, in this case they are.  Via DVD.  And with Sliders on a service like Peacock, that should be appealing to a broad audience, and not the purists.

I don't mind tinkering with the original intent of cinematographers here, given that whatever look they have been going for assumed better conditions, and the content airing on SD.  Everything now is interfering with the look they hoped to achieve, so it basically doesn't work under the current conditions.  And yes, I think additionally their vision got out of whack anyway with how the content was maintained/produced. 

Plus, frankily, when you have some dated looking elements (most apparent in the pilot, with the wallpaper in quinn's home, or the wardrobes, or wade's look, or the computers..), you have to try to make sure the material looks more newly shot or the age of the program feels more out-of-date.  Stale.  If the picture looked as good as The Prisoner, let it be a period piece... but it can't even show the period with clarity.

i'd also argue for a peacock, the content should perhaps be dynamically cropped to 16:9.  It's 2021.  Look at how HBO Max takes pride in their library.  Sure's it's archival stuff but give consumers a half way decent experience, not just the schlock Universal sends you.  Even Seinfeld is cropped.

I'd love to see Tracy oversee somesort of upgrade, or restoration for Peacock.  Let him decide.

3

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

My hypothesis is that the Pilot was also edited on a lower grade of videotape than Seasons 2 - 5, but the format was still better than the post-Pilot S1 episodes. I'm thinking that the Pilot was edited in Betacam SP or some other format with about 340 lines of resolution. That could be why the Pilot looks approximately 20 per cent less sharp than, say, "Into the Mystic."

The post-Pilot S1 episodes seem to have been edited on tape with even fewer lines of resolution, likely U-matic, Betamax or 8mm videotape (250 lines of resolution) which would explain why those episodes look only half as crisp as S2 - S5 episodes. And I would guess that from Season 2 onward, the show was edited in a DV or DV equivalent format with around 540 lines of resolution which is why the film grains are so visible afterwards and why the image quality takes such a drastic upswing.

Makes sense. They really had some unforgiving formats back then... the fact that it went to 250... well, it was fine for those sd tvs but obviously awful for now.

4

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Why do you have so many TVs!?! :-D

The 2004 release was made for CRT televisions. The Mill Creek release was not really made with any thought to how it would be viewed; it was just to have bargain bin product to sell. I sometimes wonder if modern HDTVs should offer a diode/scanlines filter for older content.

It's curious. On the whole, I find that the blu-ray's SD episodes for S2  - S5 look better than my upscales. However... the pilot is an odd case. My upscale looks better than the blu-ray version; the blu-ray version is a bit fuzzier and less defined than my upscale (made from the Universal DVD). The pilot is the only upscaled episode I still have on my hard drive.

Comparing the Universal DVD's pilot to the blu-ray version of the pilot side by side -- I'd say I find the Universal DVD a bit brighter, almost like during the scan to MPEG for the DVD, Universal's home video department brightened the image slightly. In contrast, the blu-ray version, taken from the PAL master, is a bit darker and has less apparent shadow detail. My upscale looks better than the blu-ray, but I'm going to try upscaling the blu-ray's pilot tomorrow just to see what happens. I can't do it right now, unfortunately, as I am re-upscaling BIRDS OF PREY's pilot episode with the Artemis HQ preset.

Modern tvs really should have an SD mode but then again maybe this is such a small use case.  It's just ironic situation.

I haven't compared the universal dvd vs. turbine blu-ray on the pilot.  I will say if I was ever put in charge of a restoration project, I would tweak the colors on almost every episode.  Not necessarily just to match the original intent (which could have lost some color as it was transferred/edited) but also to make it seem like it was shot more recently.

I usually thought the coloring was pretty good on the dvds/streaming S4/S5 content but veered toward dated as you go back.  After my changes to the pilot, with the up-res, it was pretty convincing to me that peacock could have a version of sliders that a 15 year old could enjoy and experience for the first time because it's much more watchable.  It felt HD or like a remastered scanned from negative thing.  Surprisingly, not that far off from Back to the Future (1986) blu-ray.   The only clues with the better look Sliders to the dating of the show are the cars and clothes but it doesn't ruin it.

A 16:9 image helps but I dont know how you can do a crop that isn't dead-center all the time. It worked for the pilot (though wasn't perfect and made all the shots more intimate) but you'd want to dynamically adjust it to make it work better in other episodes.

It can be pretty frustrating that a older shows look far better than sliders... I was really surprised how incredible The Prisoner (streaming on IMDBTV and amazon prime) looks.  Obviously filmed and edited on 35mm.

5

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I was rewatching "As Time Goes By" on the SD blu-ray and I have to say, in my opinion, my upscaled version really does not compare. The SD blu-ray lets you see all the weathering on Dennis MacMillan's face and the texture of Quinn and Daelin's flannel. The upscale was smooth and attractive, but overly airbrushed.

However, I think it was also a mistake to use the Artemis Low Quality setting on the upscale; the Artemis High Quality preset would have cleared away the blockiness of the DVD compression but left the film grain texture and the fine detail largely intact (although it would still seem a slightly more airbrushed). I think the Low Quality setting is best for deblocking severely artifacted video (like on the Mill Creek discs), but the Universal DVDs were not as bad as that.


I'll do a comparison of the hi res sample vs. turbine release to see the difference on my end.

I've been revisiting the upscale samples a bit this weekend, and actually figured something out I hadn't before. When I connect my pc to my tv, I used the tv's PC mode instead of standard for the picture quality. It did something that made the colors pop more... might be a gamma change thing. I've already got some changes to the image in vlc player I had told you about before.

The changes with PC mode made everything look gorgeous and lively and made the show feel newer and more modern. 

This doesn't really do it justice but here's a cell phone pic

https://i.imgur.com/1Eyq7Aq.png

https://i.imgur.com/EkEA7A5.png




The other s1 episode samples dont look like this of course, but it was pretty incredible to see the pilot look this good. I cropped it to go to 16:9.  Some of the smoothness qualities you mention actually become less apparent when you zoom/crop (and you get more grain).  Although I think the pilot may be more forgiving w/ regard to cinematography than others (say Murder Most Foul, which didn't quite do as well with cropping).

I also have noticed, the old dvds, even mill creek don't look bad on SD tvs.  I have one, a tube 13 inch... wish i kept a larger sd tv I threw out last year.  I think a lot of these dvds have always been decent for SD tvs, it's just when you bump to HD tvs do they become problematic.

6

(1 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I remember seeing this awhile back. The site may have reprinted it.

7

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I took some screencaps from my MKV backup of the blu-ray for you to review.

https://i.ibb.co/cTgfTSC/vlcsnap-2021-10-15-15h14m37s073.png https://i.ibb.co/8xFLTK7/vlcsnap-2021-10-15-15h14m42s628.png https://i.ibb.co/vzmNbJD/vlcsnap-2021-10-15-15h15m06s657.png https://i.ibb.co/6s63qXD/vlcsnap-2021-10-15-15h15m12s269.png https://i.ibb.co/RCRYs6b/vlcsnap-2021-10-15-15h15m34s636.png https://i.ibb.co/d49kWKB/vlcsnap-2021-10-15-15h15m49s182.png


Thank you.  That's quiet different... Maybe your PC and player are processing the data better.

8

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I just checked some more episodes and honestly not seeing it. Maybe Goodfellas was handled differently in the original editing / post production.

Even darker lit parts of The Good, The Bad and the Wealthy don't have the issue.

9

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Here's what I mean regarding pixelation (Goodfellas).  Not really seeing it in "Rules of the Game"

In some cases maybe it's just upscaled grain.  In other cases not really sure what's going on. 

The universal dvds are just more "hazy" where it fails where in this case it's sharper and more boxy/pixelated.

https://i.imgur.com/U5ZUTFJ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/PMBJDSE.jpg




https://i.imgur.com/1dvzEFB.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/lN3fHdD.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/LwKWOkr.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/cyp4n9o.jpg



https://i.imgur.com/MKTGCyI.jpg

10

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

Pretty sure the bits we are referring to are different (and may only be showing up for me)  I'll try to post a screen shot later to show.

Revisiting this, it's apparent this is not necessarily an issue everywhere.  It's most apparent in low-light situations, perhaps just early seasons, and perhaps also influenced by motion.  I'm looking at greatfellas which has darker scenes.

I'm not sure if its grain, but it may be partly that. So not sure if my initial description was accurate.

11

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:
RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

Mmm, I'm talking about what looks like digital noise (it's very square) around the edges of lets say moving characters in wide shots (not on pilot).  Perhaps it's an effect of my dvd player trying to keep up with the pal /  ntsc conversion.  I should prob try to buy a cheap pal player to check if they are avail in u.s.

Well, I've run a few Season 2 shots through Topaz' high quality preset and it is recognizing those square-looking bits of data as grain. When upscaling the shot from 720x576 to 1474x1080, that graininess is resolved into pixel-rendered detail.

Topaz seems to be able to distinguish between digital noise /compression artifacts and image forming grains. At all presets, image forming grain is resolved into pixel rendering. At presets for low and medium quality video, digital noise and artifacts are filtered out; at the high quality preset, digital noise and artifacts are ignored.

Pretty sure the bits we are referring to are different (and may only be showing up for me)  I'll try to post a screen shot later to show.

Btw pretty interesting thread here started by turbine
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=297118

12

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:
RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

On balance, i'm glad I got it.  I'd rather own a copy with files that have the best resolution that we know in existence. Even though I find it inferior to your up-res samples, I think it's good to have on hand the best looking files from an official release.  I was surprised at some of the pixelation at times, so I almost wonder if Turbine tried to do some sharpening or something, or maybe that's just how the PAL looks in HD.

It's really a beautiful release from a packaging / menu standpoint as well. Maybe one day we can push Turbine to do an "upconverted hd blu-ray" although they probably wouldn't bite.

I wish we could take a look at the image The Hub had again as they may have done upconverting on that.  I do recall it looking good.

The pixelation is actually film grain. I don't believe it has anything to do with Turbine; it's the film stock. I don't think PAL is grainy in itself because the post-Pilot episodes don't have this graininess which means that Topaz AI can't properly upscale them.

Mmm, I'm talking about what looks like digital noise (each "piece" very square) around the edges of let's say moving characters in wide shots (not on pilot).  Perhaps it's an effect of my dvd player trying to keep up with the pal /  ntsc conversion.  I should prob try to buy a cheap pal player to check.. if they are avail in u.s.

I wonder if some dvd players process the pal to ntsc conversion better.

13

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I am very, very, very sorry for recommending a home video release that I now see has issues in being enjoyed by North American fans with NTSC hardware. I did not realize this would be the case as I didn't experience these issues myself, but I clearly got lucky. I am going to re-update the information in the first post of this thread with warnings about the PAL format.

On balance, i'm glad I got it.  I'd rather own a copy with files that have the best resolution that we know in existence. Even though I find it inferior to your up-res samples, I think it's good to have on hand the best looking files from an official release.  I was surprised at some of the pixelation at times, so I almost wonder if Turbine tried to do some sharpening or something, or maybe that's just how the PAL looks in HD.

It's really a beautiful release from a packaging / menu standpoint as well. Maybe one day we can push Turbine to do an "upconverted hd blu-ray" although they probably wouldn't bite.

I wish we could take a look at the image The Hub had again as they may have done upconverting on that.  I do recall it looking good.

14

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I just did a comet vs. german release vs. original up-res samples comparison on goodfellas.

then universal dvd Rules of the Game vs. german release.

On the dvd/sd on blu-ray comparison, there was a clear advantage to the german release.  The universal release had a comparative noisy haze over the entire picture.

On the greatfellas comparison, the upres blew the german release out of the water.  The german release was an order of magnitude better than comet.


it's difficult for me to say if the german release looks better than peacock on goodfellas.  Close ups may be better and peacock seems to have more of a greenish hue to the image (i think) but on farther shots there is a far amount of pixelation on the german release that is smoother with peacock.  Then again, standing 12-14 feet, away the german release just looks better.

15

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Jim_Hall wrote:

Yeah I'm watching Greatfellas on WatchComet right now. As bad it is, it makes the Peacock version look remastered in HD.


ha!

16

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Got it working on another DVD player.  Certainly looks an order of magnitude better than the CometTV broadcast (happening now).

On a 40-inch tv, you can see the issues with the content upclose (sharp, pixelated noise on turbine vs a very fuzzy Comet image) but it looks pretty decent from 12-14 feet away.

I'll still have to compare against the universal blu-rays. I'm still hitting the higher pitched audio issue but I'm am not noticing the frame rate issue nearly as much.

17

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Sorry to hear blu-ray playback is problematic. I have not experienced anything you describe, but I can see why some of what you describe is happening.

Turbine used PAL masters and is based in Germany, so their blu-ray is PAL. PAL video is played at 25 frames per second, but you may be using an NTSC player and NTSC is 30 frames per second, so your XBox may be playing the disc 20 per cent faster than designed and unable to sync the audio. That's also why the voices are sped up and high pitched.

Are there Xbox display settings to enable PAL framerates?

I'm not sure why my North American blu-ray player didn't have these issues; it was a bargain basement purchase. I'm surprised that it can accommodate PAL discs. My player has no upscaling whatsoever and my TV also doesn't have any upscaling aside from a noise reduction filter (which I've turned off). It is a monitor with poor speakers (plugged into a small PC subwoofer bought for $20 years ago).

I was happy with the Season 2 - 5 video quality, but I'm only watching it on a 55 inch TV (about one-fifth smaller than yours).

My external blu-ray drive was able to read the disc, but I've never tried to play the disc on my computer, just copy the files as MKVs for upscaling experiments for home viewing. The file framerate is 25 frames per second. Also, I've learned that PAL resolution is 720 x 576, that's why it's higher than the 480i files on the North American DVDs.

I'll check re: PAL frame rates on the xbox settings and then see if i can try it on a couple of other blu-ray players to see if they handle it any different (assuming they can play PAL).

Perhaps the solution would be to rip the discs, then somehow convert it to NTSC but I assume I'd have to do it as non-SD files or the 576 lines of resolution might be bumped down to 480?

It is interesting your blu-ray player seemed to handle the frame rate thing better (and obviously audio as well).  Xbox's blu-ray player is supposedly really good for upscaling content but not sure about other aspects.

18

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

My german blu-ray came!

The packaging is very nice and the prints on the discs themselves are gorgeous.

The menus are also really nice.

Unfortunately, playing PAL didn't work on my blu-ray player where I have a projector.  So I tried it on an XBox.  Fortunately, Xbox played the episodes but I have to say I was pretty unimpressed with the image quality.  I had it on a good quality HD tv (about 70 inches) and it may be that it couldn't scale for that size well or the xbox's upconvertor on the blu-ray didn't upconvert pal format (or maybe because it was sd on blu-ray it didn't upconvert it like a dvd it would). 

I tried the pilot and the first episode of season 3.  The pal format actually caused the strobe / frame rate effect that you commonly see with some of the European shows played on PBS.  Weirdly, the english audio was blatantly out of sync in some spots (I wonder if this would happen on all blu-ray players or just xbox?) and the voices were a bit more high-pitched than i ever remember hearing them on other Sliders sources..

I'm gonna do a comparison against the universal dvds on that same xbox/tv to see how it compares as maybe I am being overly harsh.

19

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

fwiw, just found this email reply from turbine in my spam folder:


> Can you tell me if you the SD on Blu-Ray release of SLIDERS in

> 2016 includes new scans of the master tapes from Universal       Studios?

>

we used the SD masters provided by Universal that previous DVD releases were also based on.

As of today no HD masters exist.

20

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Topaz isn't currently practical for grain-to-pixel conversion on a 1080p scan of 16mm film, but maybe someday it'll get there.

I am pretty sure or at least hope we will see more gains with the tech in the future. You have to believe that if AI can understand what a crisp image of at least a human (or car or building or tree) looks like, it can make an intelligent guess at what the SD content intented.

I was reading some 2004 DVD reviews of the dual dimension s1&2 release and surprisingly, the reviewers were almost all fairly complimentary of the transfer and image.  Only one bad review on that.  Everything probably looked good on tube tvs. A theme that was consistent though is the blacks were problematic.  It would be good if AI had some HDR changes although I guess TVs can do that. 

I think part of turbine's secret was simply PAL files and maybe less compressed dvd files.  Other pal dvds may have been a gig  or less per episode.  Who knows if they re-scanned the tapes... i don't think we'll find out.

21

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I'm also wondering if it's a videotape medium situation. SLIDERS' first season was filmed in 1994 - 1995; I wonder if maybe the Pilot was edited on something like Digital Betacam (540 lines of resolution) or Hi8 (420 lines of resolution). And maybe the subsequent episodes were edited on some lower quality videotape format like 8mm tape, U-Matic or Betamax (250 lines of resolution). It would certainly explain the loss of sharpness going from the Pilot to "Summer of Love." The Pilot episode would have been filmed and edited some time before the subsequent episodes and at a higher budget than the rest, possibly on a pricier videotape format.

In 1995, Panasonic introduced the DV format (540 lines of resolution) and I can see that leading to non-Panasonic 540 line video formats to become cheaper to compete. Season 2 began filming in October 1995 and the massive leap in sharpness after "Luck of the Draw" is obvious; "Into the Mystic" is razor sharp. It's possible that a switch to a new videotape format for editing and effects is why the video quality of Season 1 is so below that of Season 2 onward.


Ok this was covered... you could say I'm catching up.

22

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I think that the SD blu-ray has the best possible scan of the master tapes. I just noticed: they aren't actually 640 x 480 pixels, but 20 per cent larger at 768 x 576 pixels.

.

Oops this was discussed  already.  In any case I wonder if sliders was edited in at least 576...  if so that may mean universal could theoretically create something better for North American market.

23

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Maybe this was already said but apparently PAL sd tapes had 576 lines of resolution vs. NTSC 480.

But, if they created the PAL tapes off of a 480 source, it wouldn't explain a PAL tape automatically being better.

24

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Well, if you look at the screencaps from earlier, you can compare the faces. You can see all the lines and grooves on Kari Wuhrer's face because the smaller 16mm film is, when reduced to standard definition videotape, only reducing the 16mm film grains to about 53 per cent of their original size (operating on the presumption that 16mm film is only worth scanning at 2K/1080p because any higher resolution yields no further fidelity).

In contrast, Wade's face in the Season 2 screencaps is slightly fuzzier with less pixel contrast. That strikes me as the result of reducing 35mm film grains to about 27 per cent of their original size (assuming 35mm film has a maximum scan resolution of 4K/2100 pixels high). Grain-composed images aren't like pixel-based images because not all grains are the same size. The smaller you make the grains, the less you can see the details in the grains.


i assume you mean

this
https://i.ibb.co/K0HY1JC/01.jpg

vs this?
https://i.ibb.co/Xbn2ZmG/11.jpg

25

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Well, this is certainly an interesting development...

26

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:
RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

shouldn't 35mm look better than 16mm?  I am assuming you are saying s4 & 5 were shot on 16mm then.  Wouldn't 35mm look better?

Or are you saying 16mm will up-res better in topez because the gain will give it something to "latch" onto?

The issue is that when film is transferred to videotape, there is a corresponding loss of resolution as a high resolution format is reduced to a small percentage of its full detail.

If projected to a screen or scanned for digital presentation to HDTV, then yes, 35mm produces a crisply detailed image while 16mm is less than half the resolution. In addition, the grain on 35mm film that forms the image is small enough to offer subtle texture while in contrast, the grain on 16mm film produces an image that is seemingly covered in noise (although that noise is actually forming the image).

However, what we are seeing when we watch SLIDERS is a videotape version of the film image. The film has been transferred to tape. When 35mm is transferred to tape, the image forming grain looks very fine and minute; the standard definition image can't render it fully because it's too small to show up entirely, and that means a loss of detail in going from film to tape.

The same thing happens with 16mm film. However, the image forming grains on a 16mm are more than twice the size 35mm film. That grain remains visible when reduced to a videotape resolution, which means that the details within those grains remain visible as well. The result is that while Seasons 4 - 5 are grainier and don't look as 'clean,' as Seasons 2 - 3, faces and clothing and surfaces in Seasons 4 - 5 have more detail and texture than than in Seasons 2 - 3.

Gotcha.  VLC player has a nice film grain effect where it's easy to at least see how it helps S2&3 though I get it wouldn't be the same as natural grain.

Also, s4&5 really lacked locations vs. 2&3 so I wonder if lighting plays any role on the superior look of 4&5.  The colors seem to pop pretty nicely.

27

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

The timing is incredibly striking with Season 1 being filmed in late 1994 and early 1995, just before the rise of digital video tape in 1995 through Sony and Panasonic releasing the new DV format, and the shift from analog videotape editing to digital videotape editing with 540 lines of resolution instead of the mid-range of 200 - 250 with U-Matic and Betamax and 8mm. Then we have Season 2 starting production in the fall of 1995, with film being transferred to videotape just after DV tape has become the new industry ctandard and Season 2 now looks at least twice as sharp as the Season 1 episodes before it.

If Universal says "NO" to Tracy, the one thing I hope he would try to do is ask Universal to scan and re-edit the eight episodes of s1.  He can supervise the process.. they can make a documentary about it (and sliders) and maybe do a "what would a reboot entail" with animation's like the Deep Space 9 documentary (and writer's room).  Google it if you haven't seen it, free on tubi, amazon etc.

JW_Slider, maybe you can pass this along.  If it goes well, they can consider making the pilot (as a movie) and if that goes well, a new spin off series.

28

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

There is also another massive leap forward in video quality for Seasons 4 - 5 which are far more detailed than any Season 2 - 3 episodes. That one's easier to explain: the grain is obviously that of 16mm film. It's less than half the size (and resolution) of 35mm film; the image is composed of much larger grains, and those grains survive a film to tape transfer more resiliently than 35mm film.

shouldn't 35mm look better than 16mm?  I am assuming you are saying s4 & 5 were shot on 16mm then.  Wouldn't 35mm look better?

Or are you saying 16mm will up-res better in topez because the gain will give it something to "latch" onto?

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Got a message from Turbine on whether or not they received videotapes or digital files. "It was so long ago I honestly don't remember." Anyway. If RussianCabbie has further questions, he can message Turbine himself! I can't spend the rest of my life in the middle of this line of inquiry! :-)

I actually had made attempts on the blu-ray forum at the same time as you...  They probably found it weird they got the same sort of questions.

Here's the latest of what i got re: quality difference and if they re-scanned tapes:

I must assume that the reason is that we used the PAL masters and not the NTSC masters. ...

which was similar to a possibility i previously threw out:

RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

Maybe there is some seperate set of assets (that maybe even have different  specs for conversion to pal, or requirements internationally), that are just better.  Perhaps provided by an enttity in Europe or Universal has some seperate folders for international assets.

I've looked for other PAL formatted DVDs because that's one way we can compare to see if it looks same as German release. 

The australian one is all i saw at this point and seems cost-prohibitive.  Also they warn about won't play on U.S. dvd players... so i assume that has a specified region and germany's is region-free....

Could make it hard to test then.

All this stuff I am super curious about, including the process, because as I mentioned earlier, on occasion i have been able to "get to" someone who manages distribution for universal.  So having specifics can help lock down what may be repeatable.  Right now the stuff can look aborish on Peacock.  If there's a way to push for a fix for that -- so a wider consumer audience can enjoy the show  -- great.   It certainly wouldn't hurt Tracy's case (and obviously they examine streaming numbers).

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I got a message from Turbine media.

Hi there,

this is SD on Blu-ray, so I am puzzled you find the quality differs from the DVDs. It's the sam data and stream. But we used the PAL masters for Europe of course...

Cheers!

I think it's safe to say that NBCUniversal has plenty of copies of the video masters.

**

Do you use your projector a lot? I imagine the Zoom function, while 'cinematic,' cuts off a lot of vital information from the frame of a 4:3 image.

I am pleased to report that while my upscales are superficially as good as the blu-ray, the blu-ray is better because of all the fine grain. It's interesting: Cez of LEGO SLIDERS has the blu-ray. But he told me that he prefers the look of my upscales (I sent him the clip of Sabrina singing in "Stoker") because they are "cleaner." However, that "cleaner" look is actually a lack of detail due to a lack of film grain; the graininess may seem unappealing in a screenshot, but on an HDTV screen, it gives the image far more physical reality.

The Season 1 blu-ray episodes look a bit muddy for wide shots and distant elements, but I honestly stop noticing it once I get into the episode and the lack of compression artifacts means that the image isn't constantly obscured with distractions.

The zoom function can cut off info but in this case it's worth the trade off for a more overwhelming and encompassing image size.  Mostly the framing just seems closer than really losing elements needed for the story.  At least on the two episodes I tried. 

I'll definitely compare the sd on bluray once it arrives, especially with the image on a 135 in projection ... because that's where issues reveal themselves most.  I was honestly shocked how well the up res looked on pilot and s3 that big.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I got a message from Turbine media.

Hi there,

this is SD on Blu-ray, so I am puzzled you find the quality differs from the DVDs. It's the sam data and stream. But we used the PAL masters for Europe of course...

Cheers!

.

Does this mean they used the digital copies for euope/pal or that they rescanned the tapes (which were in pal format for the European market)?

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Here's the up-res'd content projected onto a white wall in a dark room from a 600 dollar projector from about 15 feet away.  Making for a 135 inch screen. You can see the couch next to the image for scale.

https://i.imgur.com/9ctHsje.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wxSwsMn.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4CgFwza.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/FlKQhfT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/zUsr24E.jpg



These are of s3's The Guardian.  The  pilot looks equally as good.  Beautiful image like newer content.

In the photos above,  I actually used the projector's zoom feature to zoom in on the image so it would crop 16:9 from within the 4:3 native image, and then scale that cropped image up to fill the screen.

Other s1 (non-pilot) episodes and s2 can't use this zoom feature without not looking great.  But s2 still looks very solid at 4:3, and s1 non pilot to a lesser degree.  All are LIGHT YEARS better than the Peacock at 135 inches.  In that case, s4 episodes look worse than up-res'd s1's.

Brick Lady Agata wrote:

Hi everyone,
the fan fic season 6 - written by "cez" and presented on platform Sliders.pl - gave an ultimate ending to the series.
However the fun is not over yet! I've created a LEGO set called "Sliders - the Brick Dimension" on LEGO Ideas that is now active for a contest.  The contest runs worldwide and these are your votes that can bring back Sliders ...  to your home. Maybe even to  your desk! We already got support from some of the series' creators, so now is your turn to check it out and vote:

https://bit.ly/3a7Vmuj


Also any comments and suggestions are very welcome!!
Thank you in advance for your support.https://ideascdn.lego.com/media/generate/lego_ci/a6aae80d-9283-4cf9-8fcf-6f877b868ad4/resize:950:633/webp?fbclid=IwAR3Np6ZmYak0zBsFRw5SE2NAA3qWsGmO9IOZYGq-uLkJ0b7X1qEEFzw5h8o


I love this!  Voted of course!

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'll be trying the up-res samples from earlier this year on a 135 inch projected image today.  The peacock content of course looked awful. Let's see what happens here.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

this is interesting...

also says resolution: 1080p (upconverted)

https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Sliders- … ay/161702/

Altho,  it actually may be 720x576, right?

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

A gentleman who does making of documentaries/special features for dvd companies on the notion that the master tapes were re-scanned for the Turbine release:

It is possible. Their transfers of AMAZING STORIES looks better than some of the streaming versions.


Interestingly enough... the resolution here says it was upconverted:

resolution: 1080p (upconverted)
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Amazing- … ay/174005/

Turbine actually commented several times in this thread here:
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=289083

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I think there's been a miscommunication with Mr. Hunt. He says NBCUniversal would never have given Turbine the film for SLIDERS episodes. But SLIDERS' completed episodes do not exist on film. They exist on videotape. Possibly Betacam, U-Matic, DV or some other form of videotape, but tape nonetheless. No scan of videotape is going to be HD. There is no new film scans for SLIDERS because there is no film outside of the raw, unassembled material with no colour processing or effects. NBCUniversal may have given video cassettes to Turbine for a rescan (or yes, Turbine may have paid another company to do it, but Turbine has videotape and film scanning infrastructure and NBCUniversal isn't just going to have a single cassette of their archived shows).

Mr. Hunt seems to be responding with the impression that the completed SLIDERS episodes are stored on film negatives with the need to create release prints and with the master copy remaining under strict storage and preservation. But SLIDERS was made by transferring film to videotape, specifically because videotape was easier and cheaper to edit, duplicate and distribute and store.

It's the only format in which the completed episodes can exist and it would be insane for NBCUniversal to not have multiple copies and lossless duplication for all of their tape-stored shows. The ability for future resale in future formats is a high value proposition, admittedly not for SLIDERS alone, but for the totality of their standard definition catalog of properties.

Yes, I already noted that in my response to him.  Will see what he says...

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

There is a pamphlet is bound to the disc case. It's just episode descriptions.

Before going to the office, I put my 720p AI upscales into Handbrake and set them to re-encode the files back to 720x576, but with a sharpening filter applied. Maybe that can add some of the gains while mitigating the losses. But what it comes down to: Topaz AI upselling upscaling is, currently, only effective at removing compression artifacts, and only if the image under that compression retains film grain. The Universal and Mill Creek DVDs had grain for S2 - 5, and after Topaz, those episodes looked broadly like the Turbine Blu-ray but without the fine grain and smaller details in that grain. Wide shots have a watercolour effect, medium and close up shots look good.

However, if the image isn't compressed and lacks grain, Topaz AI will make the image worse. Everything except closeups will have watercolour effect. In terms of the Blu-ray S2 - S5, there is a lot of grain, and AI upscaling the image will simply smooth out that grain in rebuilding that detail at a higher resolution. But the results wouldn't be worth the 24 hours in AI. S2 - S5 would technically be an HD or 4K resolution image that would look clean, but the fine detail would have a sheen over it and you'd get the same results with on the fly bicubic scaling and a noise reduction filter.

Perhaps adding upres on S2-S5 german release could have grain effect added in after the smoothing.  But as you said, it really comes down to ROI.

I asked Bill Hunt, founder of Digital Bits if he thought Uni would send master *tapes* to Turbine.  Here's his response (maybe he fails to distinguish between tapes and negatives):

It really depends. The film masters would never be given to Turbine, but Turbine may have paid for new film scans, which would have been done here in the States by a company Universal worked with. But I haven't seen the SD on BD release. So my guess is that it's not a new release.
A new scan, I should say.
Given the fact that they're SD and not HD (any new scan would certainly be in HD) it's probably NOT a new scan.

If Universal actually rescanned everything it's plausible they are so disorganized that they didn't then provide that stuff for Peacock etc.  Another theory would be german release is in PAL.  Maybe that helps?  idk. 

I reached out to someone at universal who deals with a bunch of management of their digital stuff and licensing it out.  He has given me a couple responses in the past but for the most part isn't very responsive.  I've very much tried to push them to do up-res's etc.  Everything I've gotten the sense of is unless the licensee asks for HD (and the deal i guess big enuf) it's not gonna happen otherwise. 

If we keep chirping to peacock maybe they will press universal's internal team on these matters.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

The blu-ray is good. Everyone should buy it!


Already did!  I do regret not using the german amazon to get it new, however.  Only a dollar more than a used one (very good condition) I ordered at u.s. amazon.

Did yours come with an insert pamphlet book? About 20 pages or so of photos? I  am not sure if that only comes with the "limited edition."

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I've asked if they did a new scan, no response yet, but they may not have an English speaker reading customer messages. However, compression isn't an issue on their discs. They only have four discs because the files are not HD, just 20 percent bigger than SD. And their video scan can't be improved because their files for S2-5 have all the film grain. Once the film grain is present, the smallest aspect of the film image has been captured. There is no further level of detail to be scanned from the tapes.

good to know regarding compression level.

my guess is they'll be able to handle the english language in your inquiry.  I am more so worried that the folks with the institutional knowledge of making that disc (five years ago) maybe not be looped in or handle the inquiry.  It will be awesome if you get a definitive response either way to help unlock this mystery..

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Sooo, I'm finishing up my upscales on the S1 blu-ray files... but honestly, I'm not sure it was really worth it.

Stretched version on the left, AI upscaled version on the right:
https://i.ibb.co/qkRJnGY/king-is-back-comparison.jpg

The difference is so small that once the video is in motion, I honestly don't think it would make any difference. It started as decent DVD quality and so it remains.

maybe i'm a nut but i see a huge difference on my desktop monitor at full screen (tho on my laptop, it's not quite as noticeable).

42

(25 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

OK, this is insanely creative.

VOTE!

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/6ad0e06 … d973ec6b0d

43

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I think Turbine has clearly tapped into a market in Germany with audiences who want German audio tracks and want a premium product. If you look at their website, they're like a boutique version of Criterion. They're like Apple Computers: a small selection of high priced, high quality products with a devoted audience prepared to spend $80 USD on a box set of SLIDERS.

In contrast, Mill Creek is the equivalent of Walmart's laptop division, caring more about hitting a low price point with low to near non-existent levels of effort. Mill Creek will take what they're given; they don't care if their SLIDERS product is good, they just care about making it available, priced at $40 and discounted to $20.

Apple's executives once remarked during the netbook craze, "We don't know how to release a $200 computer that isn't a piece of junk and it's not in our DNA to do that." Turbine's website and their high quality, small selection lineup speaks to a company that wouldn't have tolerated 500 MB files for a SLIDERS DVD; they don't know how to release a $20 box set of SLIDERS that isn't a piece of junk and it's not in their DNA to do that. If that were their only option for SLIDERS, Turbine would have simply declined to license it and found some other project.

Might you be able to email Turbine and see if they could tell you if they rescanned master tapes for this release?  It would be great to get confirmation on your suspicions here.  Id send them a note myself but I think you'd be in better position to discuss the technical with them, especially if there is a back and forth.

I'm also really curious if the fact that the release is limited to four discs caused any compression that resulted in picture loss.  E.g. you wonder if they could have gone even better. Guessing not but 22 episodes per disc does seem like a lot when normally one 2 hour movie goes on one of those things (even if its more lines of resolution).

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I tried running some Handbrake sharpening over some of the S1 upscales and... for the closeups, the sharpening did eliminate a lot of fuzziness. However, for the more distant shots, it wasn't effective. Distant shots in AI upscaling tend to have a muddy, watercolour effect. The sharpening made it even worse and it went from tolerable to distracting. It occurred to me that individual scenes could be sharpened separately from the wider angles. It also occurred to me that I should go to bed and be ready for work in the morning and not spend any more time upscaling SLIDERS outside of plug and play solutions that can run while I do my day job.

**

Thinking some more about this -- NBCUniversal must have multiple copies of the master tapes and a way to duplicate them losslessly and maintain their originals. I understand that NBCUniversal does not care about SLIDERS, but I'm sure that as a corporation, they care very much about owning their properties and citing the combined value of their properties as part of their total corporate worth.

As an amateur accountant, I would severely reduce the estimated value of the SLIDERS property if NBCUniversal didn't own videotape masters of the completed episodes in their archives. If they don't have the masters, then they don't have the ability to convert the show into future formats for future sales.

I don't know what these future formats or future sales would be -- they're in the future.

But if NBCUniversal doesn't have masters, they have nothing they can mine for future sales; they can only engage in their current sales: bargain basement DVD packagers like Mill Creek, NBCU's in-house streaming service.

I would (as an amateur accountant) reduce SLIDERS' value by 80 per cent if that were the case because NBCUniversal would no longer have the ability to monetize the episodes beyond what they are doing now. Having the masters means SLIDERS has significantly more value than it does if NBCUniversal only has a box of their godawful DVDs.

I think NBCUniversal would keep the video masters. They might not use them, they might not bother to rescan them, they might hold them in utter contempt or bland indifference -- but they're not going to use them for target practice or to prop up uneven tables. Whatever we might think of multinational corporations, they're not going to allow their potential sale value to be diminished by a refusal to store some cassettes.

Anyway. Turbine Media has clearly done a maximum resolution scan of the master tapes for the standard definition blu-ray release. NBCUniversal has the masters.

i would think re-scanning tape masters would be relatively in expensive.  maybe turbine was willing to roll the dice since at least people were buying a physical good (that would be reviewed) whereas w peacock it's a free, commercial supported play w/o a less picky consumer.  but i also think people at peacock, svod services, mill creek, and even hulu and netflix just assume that whatever digital files universal provides, that's the best that you really gonna get.   they arent really familiar w. the terrible look of dvd releases etc.  If Peacock knew better was possible, maybe they'd insist a rescan of master tapes in order to license it.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't love the idea of wade being dead. I am not sure Tracy knows about her horrific ending in the original series.

I do think sabrina would be willing to dedicate a few months a year, but not sure beyond that.  Tracy I think is just assuming she's moved on, living in africa and not really available.  She has lived on and off in vancouver the last number of years (between the back and forth with Africa).  So it's not really out of the question.  And yea, she expressed some, cautious interest.

46

(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

One would think that the episodes would be edited on a videotape suite and then the videotape suite would be able to output the final cut to multiple U-matic or Betacam or DV cassettes with a set number for distribution, storage, archival maintenance, some of which would be returned, some of which would be lost, and some of which would stay within the hands of the studio for legal and financial precautions.

Makes sense.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

The term "master tapes" may be an overstated misnomer. I think it unlikely that each video master of each episode of SLIDERS exists solely on a single cassette per episode.

There must be multiple videotape copies of the final edit of each episode. Copies would have been needed for review, for affiliate broadcast, for overseas airings, for advertising to cut ads and create create lower resolution copies to send to press, for archival purposes should production need a clip show.

Are there 100 cassettes for each of SLIDERS 88 broadcast hours? Probably not, but the number has to be more than one even if it's less than 100. Before digital files, there must have been a sufficient number of the cassettes to send to different locations for airing and conversion to alternate standards of broadcast and for NBCUniversal to send copies to companies like Turbine seeking to produce home video products while still having quantities remaining.

I think there would have also been some expectation, perhaps even contractual, that these tapes would be returned to NBCUniversal upon expiry of syndication and affiliate broadcast requirements. Surely the Canadian SPACE channel and Canada's Global TV aren't keeping SLIDERS videocassettes still. These wouldn't be cheap, consumer grade VHS tapes; this would have to be something like Betacam or U-Matic or DV cassettes. NBCUniversal might contractually require Turbine and such to pay penalties in the event that these materials are not returned upon a set deadline.

There may also be, from an accounting standpoint, value in retaining multiple copies of video masters because they can be assigned a dollar amount, that NBCUniversal can use to present the SLIDERS property as one of their many assets that adds to their company being worth a specific amount of money should they be courting investors or seeking to be purchased.

That said, a fan editor whose name I won't give -- he apparently managed to acquire copies of videocassettes of WONDERFALLS, LOIS AND CLARK, XENA, HERCULES and other 90s and early 2000s shows. He spent tens of thousands of dollars buying them. He seemed to have found former staff members at broadcast affiliates and home video distributors and marketing firms that had kept the tapes (so maybe they're not always returned). He scanned these tapes to digital formats and ran them through AI upscaling. He crowdsourced for donations to buy more of these master tapes and, I guess, was issued a cease and desist by various studios because he abruptly shut down his crowdsourcing and went dark.

Now, these were not NBCUniversal productions. But I don't think this hobbyist fan would have been able to get master tapes if the industry standard was to only have masters existing in a quantity of one; there must be more than one. But probably less than 100.

Makes sense.  Though you have to wonder.... If these were copies second generation if there could be degradation there too.  Or perhaps they make multiple "masters" they find a way to all have them identical quality

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

My guess: Turbine licensed SLIDERS from NBCUniversal and requested the master tapes, which they scanned to digital files at their own facilities. However, I don't believe Turbine would be required to provide NBCUniversal with their digital scans; Turbine did it on their own equipment for their own release of SLIDERS and is only obligated to pay NBCUniversal the licensing fees and sales percentages.

I imagine NBCUniversal wouldn't be allowed to use Turbine's files without paying Turbine a fee for the resources and labour that Turbine put into rescanning the tapes on Turbine's equipment -- and NBCUniversal likely doesn't wish to pay Turbine for their work and isn't going to use their versions for streaming services when NBCUniversal's DVD files won't incur any further fees.

Yea. I'm just not sure universal would trust them with the master tapes. Wouldn't that be a bit of a concern?  Like they could even get lost in transit.

That said maybe universal would consider it an acceptable risk.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I think that the SD blu-ray has the best possible scan of the master tapes. I just noticed: they aren't actually 640 x 480 pixels, but 20 per cent larger at 768 x 576 pixels.

I wonder if it's possible the German company got their hands on source files different than what universal america distributes to u.s. partners, or they keep stuff  in seperate folders.

Maybe there is some seperate set of assets (that maybe even have different  specs for conversion to pal, or requirements internationally), that are just better.  Perhaps provided by an enttity in Europe or Universal has some seperate folders for international assets.

If the  german company re-scanned tapes, maybe there are copies of masters for international partners floating around.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I have edited a previous post to clarify that on the left is the blu-ray SD image and on the right is the blu-ray image upscaled to 720p.

Regarding the post-Pilot Season 1 episodes: I've been able to look at the blu-ray SD version of "Summer of Love" more closely after upscaling it to 720p. A bit like looking at the video through a magnifying glass. I've realized that some of my previous comments on the Season 1 video quality were incorrect.

A closer look at the upscaled blu-ray version and comparing it to the SD blu-ray version makes it clear: the quality of "Summer of Love" is not at the same level as the Pilot on the blu-ray. The Pilot is very sharp and filled with detail from 35mm film. All the episodes from "Summer of Love" to "Luck of the Draw" lack that detail; they have a soft-focus look. It cannot be due to file compression because the files are around 1.6 GB each and have the same bit-rate as the Season 2 - 5 episodes and S2 - S5 look really sharp. The problem with Season 1 episodes is clearly in the master tapes themselves.

It appears that after the Pilot, the remaining Season 1 episodes were shot on film, then run through a film-to-tape conversion process that smoothed out the dust, scratches and grain on the 35mm film. Because the grain has been severely filtered out of these post-Pilot S1 episodes, there is a lack of fine detail and sharpness. Grain is what contains all these fine details. This is why the eight episodes after the Pilot have always been blurrier than the other 80 episodes surrounding them; it's present on every DVD release before this blu-ray set and it's present in this blu-ray set as well.

I have seen this anomaly before in LOIS AND CLARK on broadcast and in the DVD release. The 35mm film for LOIS AND CLARK looked like 35mm film (sized down to videotape) until there were special effects. When LOIS AND CLARK had scenes needing post production events (composites, video effects, background replacements), the film for those scenes was put through a different film to tape process that filtered out the grain (and dust and scratches) and also blurred the image.

Presumably, this 'cleanness' made it easier to add and overlay effects onto the footage.

I am not sure why SLIDERS' post-Pilot Season 1 episodes were subjected to this process for all scenes whether they had effects or not. It may have been an attempt to simplify production by having all film sequences transferred to tape in the same way regardless of whether they needed special effects or not.

It may have also been an aesthetic decision to clean up the shots by removing noise, dirt and scratches from the 35mm image with the thought being that for broadcast TV on CRT televisions, the loss of sharpness would not be perceivable to the viewer.

The Pilot episode has a lot of brief artifacts appearing across the image: specks of dirt and dust, small scratches across the negative. It makes it look like a movie. Someone processing SLIDERS at the time may have considered that a flaw. The next eight episodes look very denoised and despeckled to me with far fewer instances of dirt, dust and scratches. It shifts the 35mm film more towards the look of videotape.

Thankfully, there is a small amount of grain in the S1 episodes that remains present and the AI upscale has been able to give the image a slight boost in sharpness to make it look a bit more defined as a 720p video. It isn't perfect, but it's a nice step up and meets the quality of my upscales for Season 2 - 5 -- even if it doesn't meet the quality of the Season 2 - 5 episodes on the blu-ray.

It looks like with Season 2, SLIDERS changed its film to tape process; beginning with "Into the Mystic" (or "Time and Again World" if you prefer), dirt and dust and scratches reappear across the 35mm image. In addition, there is also graininess again once Season 2 starts.

A lot of studios and viewers see graininess as a flaw. As an obstruction over the image. Part of that is because modern audiences are used to digital video which doesn't have that graininess except when it's added as texture. But in film, the image is made of grain and reducing it is to reduce the rough texture of Rembrandt's hair or the wrinkles on Quinn's shirts or the muff of Wade's jacket or the pattern on Arturo's suit jackets.


Thanks for clarification on the before and after.  I certainly see a difference.  I am assuming this is better than upres on a universal source as well as mill creek?

In terms of the season one post production process, outside the pilot, i think it makes sense to see if universal would maybe consider fixing those episodes.  But seems like even re-scanning tapes they are edited on wouldn't deal with the problem?  The problem was when it jumped from film to tape, and de-noised?  In that case, they'd have to do film.  It'd cost about $10-15k per episode to do the scan/edit/up-res with an outsourced house.

Maybe if universal or peacock ever got serious about salvaging library content.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

On the blu-ray release, the pilot and all 86 episodes that follow appear to be at the same level of quality as Universal's DVD release of the Pilot. The files have not been compressed into blurry haziness. I can use Season 1, Episodes 2 - 9 from this blu-ray to get a great 720p upscale.

===================

ireactions wrote:

I've decided to attempt another upscale from 480p to 720 on the first season of SLIDERS (Episodes 2 - 9).

However, Episodes 2 - 9 of Season 1 seem even further compressed than Seasons 2 - 5. Upscaling on these episodes has yielded an image that remains fuzzy and blurry in stark contrast to the strong results of upscaling Seasons 2 - 5.

So it seems like ep  2 - 9 have large file sizes (1.6g) but doesn't quite hit quality of pilot, which is a bummer.  It would have been great otherwise.

It would be great if we could try to get a Discovery owned network to broadcast Sliders in re-runs again.  They owned The Hub.  I'd be curious to see what their assets are like for s1.

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(413 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

My recent purchase of the German SLIDERS standard definition blu-ray set has me wondering if all upscaling options might be a complete and total waste of time for home video distributors. AI upscaling is great for fans trying to improve poor home media. But surely studios could simply re-scan their existing video masters at the highest possible level of fidelity and put them on blu-ray / HD streaming services without the compression that was once needed to release this content on 8GB DVDs.

If the video masters are a good quality standard definition file, the uncompressed rescans won't look like full fledged high definition, but they will look above and beyond the limits of DVD storage. Seasons 2 - 5 of SLIDERS benefitted from excellent video quality when their 35mm and 16mm film were transferred to videotape for editing and effects. They look great in uncompressed standard definition blu-ray files. Season 1, sadly, got a fuzzy film to tape transfer and looks a bit dull.

For the most part, I think it is very likely that most 90s shows that were shot on film and edited on video exist on videotapes that look as good or better than the uncompressed Seasons 2 - 5 of SLIDERS. Paramount doesn't want to rescan all the film for DEEP SPACE NINE or VOYAGER and rebuild all the effects because THE NEXT GENERATION had poor blu-ray sales. That makes sense, but why not rescan the completed episodes from videotape at maximum bitrate and put them on streaming? They wouldn't be HD, but they would be more on the HD side than on the SD side.

We all have a common impression of the upper limits of DVD video quality and of poor VHS quality, but it's clear from the Season 2 - 5 blu-ray of SLIDERS that these video masters, despite being on tape, have excellent visual depth, detail, sharpness and clarity that home video distributors had to downscale to fit onto DVD discs. Master tapes are not high definition videos, but they can exceed DVD and reach within striking range of HD.

My God, I just watched "The Guardian" in 640x480 on the blu-ray and I can see the blades of grass beneath young Quinn's feet as he defeats his bullies. Resolution is just the container for the video and with SLIDERS after Season 1, that container is filled to the brim.

THE SECRET WORLD OF ALEX MACK is a terrible Mill Creek DVD release that crunched down the video files to at times 200 MB per episode; a blu-ray release could have let the standard definition files be rendered at 1GB per episode and with a fairly modest price increase, even with Mill Creek's bargain basement approach to blu-rays.

BABYLON 5 and LOIS AND CLARK are two shows that might have been better off with rescanned videotapes rather than rescanning the original film. Both shows feature effects that exist only on videotape and not on film. As a result, any time there is a special effects shot in the HD releases of these shows, the video quality becomes jarringly blurry in contrast to the sharpness of the film sequences. A videotape rescan would have been cheaper and the video quality would be consistent throughout.

Recently, STARGATE SG-1 was released to blu-ray in something resembling HD. The show was, like SLIDERS, shot on film and edited on videotape for the first seven seasons, and the blu-ray is apparently the 480i STARGATE SG-1 DVD releases, AI upscaled to 1080p in resolution. It's also been subjected to various filters to reduce film grain, screen out compression, increase pixel contrast, etc.. https://www.gateworld.net/news/2021/03/ … than-dvds/

Reviews indicate that it's fine, acceptable, enjoyable and consistent. But it might have looked even better if they'd scanned the tapes, made full use of 44GB discs to leave the episodes as uncompressed as possible -- and then left them alone.

Regarding the reduced compression of the video assests on the german release, and your post in general, do you think the 1.6 gigs per episode really is showing the full capacity of what is possible, or is there still some image loss?  Because these blu-ray distributors still are trying to reduce the number of discs they have to put in the package, to maintain some profit margin.  Discs may be 30 or 40 cent cost.  And I wonder if we are still losing what would be noticable quality difference because of this compromise?

Not sure what the process is like for rescanning tapes.  But I really wonder how well organized some of the studios are.  Do they have all the tapes?  Is it a hassle to find them?  Did film stock get lost in fires?  Pretty sure any special effect files are GONE.

I think the studios have limited machines, limited people and limited time.  Rescanning or upconversion, or video processing, or all the other things that come w/ these projects became not worth their time if the title is not significant enough.  Maybe in some cases their is some profit to be made, but it's not big enough vs. what else they could be working on, using machines for etc.

And they don't tend to be willing to outsource this work readily to smaller operations, or they give potential licensing partners a hard time on licensing fees.  Take someone like Shout Factory.  They could do a great job on a sliders blu-ray but Universal in negotations probably won't price the license reasonable enough to make it worth Shout's while.  And Universal, out of habit, doesn't want to do super small deals... as it sets a bad precedent.  I bet even Mill Creek may have lost money on their DVD release.  I doubt it quite sold what they may have expected.  It wasn't aimed at hardcore fans, who already owned it. But the everday person shopping at wal-mart, who may have remembered the series and were OK  with a twenty dollar spend.  I just doubt it hit that market particularly as well as maybe Mill Creek may have expected.  But that's off topic.

I think what studios are missing, in not working w. smaller players to upgrade content, is in the streaming era, your library matters.  And if it looks like shit, how do you expect it to perform?

From what I understand, the production facilitites at the studios get territorial about this work being outsources, because they want the money, budget and work for the content at their studio and its IP.  So smaller actors who can do this work dont get the jobs, and the title is too small, and it gets lost in the fray.

Re-scanning the tapes might be an excellent idea though.  I do think a re-scan of the negatives w/ upconversion on effects shots should be done on anything you want to put on streaming nowadays.  And then find a way to make the content "new".  Get the actors to provide commentary tracks etc.  Support podcast rewatch series.  And bake it into your streaming service.  Make it relevant.  Let people have a conversation around the content.  Similar to what Gil is doing with The Prisoner, that tracy has appeared in episodes of.  Just make an ecosystem out of it.

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ireactions wrote:

I've played the raw blu-ray video files on my computer and I can assure you that the excellent SD video quality of the Season 2 episodes isn't from my player or TV. Turbine's video quality is just that good. :-)

love this entire post... will be re-reading it many times over.


ireactions wrote:

https://i.ibb.co/5W69T97/quartet-summer-of-love.jpg

just so i am understanding correctly, is image on left your original upscale (off universal dvd), right an upscale off the german release?


ireactions wrote:

I'm hoping these screenshots capture some of the splendor of the blu-ray, in motion and scaled to an HDTV.

https://i.ibb.co/M2LbXmq/01.jpg https://i.ibb.co/09Kzqjw/02.jpg https://i.ibb.co/y6cFKd2/03.jpg https://i.ibb.co/Mpwbtn5/04.jpg https://i.ibb.co/xCF9zZP/05.jpg https://i.ibb.co/k6QXLgk/06.jpg https://i.ibb.co/YyNzhHK/07.jpg https://i.ibb.co/23ZLDhY/08.jpg https://i.ibb.co/XCHKFpP/09.jpg https://i.ibb.co/ThyypmQ/10.jpg https://i.ibb.co/R9XvpLJ/11.jpg https://i.ibb.co/rbZvMYb/12.jpg



I always thought though universal s3-s5 releases were not so "dated" looking besides the 4:3.   Especially 4 & 5.

But these look really really good.

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I def. hear what you are saying ireactions about a different process used in season one vs. season two in the production process of the assets because it def. seems to me that they changed something between those seasons.  And maybe even from season three on vs. season two.

In any case, it would be interesting to try to push season two in an upscale as far as you can.  1080 or 4k.  I continue to marvel at your clips in the last up-res and it seems like with the german blu-ray you are also benefiting from your blu-ray player's upscale algorithm.  Which is not something everyone has.

I think there's definitely a case being made here for us to make a push to Universal to re-scan the film for the season one episodes and up-res any special effects shots.  It would be great if we could push peacock to do it.

In anycase, the question remains -- why are they streaming compressed files that look like ass?  Are they gettting mixed up between how they store digital assets?  The german release looks better per your reports and we know with The Hub the content looked better (did they upscale it?).

good article by good old Aaron

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

JWSlider3 wrote:

From what I understand, this person could green light the show. The problem appears to be Universal's financial state. A show that might lose money isn't an option, at least at this moment in time.

JWSlider3

Peacock revenue reached more than $100 million last year, but the streamer brought in a loss before interest, taxes, depreciation and amortization of $700 million given investments. NBCUniversal continues to expect losses of $2 billion for Peacock for 2020 and 2021.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/busin … p-4173961/

of course... if they were making money, they would think they were too cool for tracy and sliders... so it works both ways.  an excuse from them regardless.

i do empathize bc the show could easily lose money.  we're talking $10-20m production cost at least for a series or miniseries.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

JWSlider3 wrote:

Grizzlor wrote:
The way Tracy framed it was he expected they'd take the pitch and be like, yeah go ahead, let's do this.  Nice of him to be that optimistic, because I sure wasn't.  The "time" thing was them asking him, why is now the right time to bring it back?

The executive that ask if this is the right time was the same executive that said "Tracy, can you write a pitch to bring Sliders back".

So, now you can understand why Tracy was surprised.

JWSlider3

yikes.  really?  that must have caught him off guard.

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(413 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I'd like to learn more about the Australian release too!

I had a nightmare last night that my grandfather rose from his grave to slap me for buying a standard definition blu-ray set that conceivably has the same problems as the Universal set.

It's unclear which episodes the German site reviewed to compare the blu-ray to the DVDs, so we don't know if the video quality is better or worse or equal.

I recently stumbled upon this and thought it was interesting...

https://originaltrilogy.com/discussion/ … ties/id/18

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Has anyone ever heard about the quality of the Australian collector's edition release?

https://www.amazon.com/Sliders-Collecti … d=&sr=

I guess since it's in PAL format the frame rate may be stroby..

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

It's news. I don't know if it's great because for all I know, the blu-ray quality is the same as the Universal DVD set and unfit for upscaling.

I don't know what to expect. I've never been able to get a hold of anyone who has both the Universal DVD sets and the blu-ray. I did try upscaling the Mill Creek version of "Summer of Love," however, and the Mill Creek video quality is simply too poor for Topaz to rebuild any of the detail. I am a bit worried that the blu-ray version of the Season 1 episodes will be bad as Universal's DVDs.

I suppose it's possible, although I think  I've also heard the german dvd-on-blu-ray copies were perhaps better.  Or perhaps I am thinking of the Sliders reruns in germany on NITRO.  Or maybe I am thinking of re-runs on The Hub.


You can email the german sliders site:
http://www.sliders-dimension.de/

here's their review, which translated seems to indicate its a bit better than the dvds
http://www.sliders-dimension.de/DVD/com … cb_de.html


Despite SD quality, the video material looks slightly better compared to the DVDs, especially when it comes to the colors. You can see a slight improvement in contrast with the BD and the image appears a bit grainier and sharper. Especially with the newer seasons, colors are more natural. The DVD, on the other hand, looked slightly muddy and darker. However , a mistake seems to have occurred in the editing of the video material, at least in the episode In the Warlock's Realm . Over the entire term to recognize so-called interlaced strips ( interlaced). So image artifacts when people or things are in motion.

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ireactions wrote:

I'm told that the German blu-ray release (all 88 episodes in standard definition on blu-ray discs) has the least amount of compression and is a marked improvement on the Universal DVD releases, and I have been able to buy a used copy off eBay. It will take anywhere from 6 - 8 weeks to arrive by post.

I'm hoping that the blu-ray will contain decent standard definition files for Episodes 2 - 9, or at least files good enough for AI upscaling them to bring them to the same level of video quality as the AI upscales on Seasons 2 - 5.

great news

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(413 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

This show "Upload" on Amazon Prime is a lot better / more interesting than I expected.  I'm only on the second episode but it has some of the intelligence and quirkiness that the best of sliders had.

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(4 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Ubercoo wrote:

Hey gang, I'm new to the board & wanted to share some thoughts about one of my favorite TV shows.

To begin, Sliders, to me, symbolizes an era in American & world culture that I feel was sadly lost after 9/11. What I mean is, when I grew up being born in 1983, and it may be rose colored glasses but I felt it was a very unique time in overall history. I got to see some pretty amazing things such as Hubble going into space & optimism of us going as well, the Hale-Bob comet, Star Trek TNG first run, Mortal Kombat, TMNT1, I was a ghostbuster with every toy and suit (grandparents spoiled lol), I went from hearing Ozzy & Metallica one week to Nirvana the next.. then Cobain's passing, I got to grow up with hip hop turn into rap & whatever it is now. I got to learn to love techno/Big Beat with performers like Fatboy Slim & The Crystal Method, the movie hackers & tech progression, all the blockbusters like Forrest Gump & T2 judgement day, seeing Twister at a drive-in opening weekend and most importantly I got to experience a message to the youth of that time that the future of the millennium with a blooming Internet would bring a new hope for society. A post cold war, end of the century celebration that was the 1990s and millennium.

IMO, we as a society were close to something special then, not just from being young & idealistic but it was a sense that people were done with the old ways of world wars & segregation & inequality, maybe not for all just yet but certainly on the right track with the message of tolerance and inclusiveness given to the youth. You may not agree & that's okay. It's how I remember being taught in schools then. Some examples of a communal future was Napster, file sharing & the Internet or World Wide Web kinda still then, which was more than mere sharing of music & those at the top knew that. Free sharing of information.. along with programs like ICQ, chat rooms & such, sharing our lives directly without some middle man big tech company & less fear of exploitation. I'm not saying that was the reason for 9/11 but I do think the control over the distribution of information might of been a factor. I still wonder, as a possible Sliders episode, what if 9/11 didn't happen. How would our society have developed differently and it makes me sad at the loss of potential going into the year 2001.

Pushing all that politics & nostalgia aside & rewind a few years, here comes a TV show somewhere in the middle of a decade of those 90s that had a plethora of possibilities, optimism, hope & creativity. A multiverse before Disney, what if stories similar to the Twilight Zone, a creator & talent from a hit Sci-Fi franchise via Star Trek, a handsome well known young man, an esteemed wonderful experienced actor, a wholesome loving Singer/Actor and a cute girl next door that many, including myself, had a crush on. All with enlightened morals of a just society against the extremes of that society. Sliders changed my life. Even when it went to the SciFi channel I watched every episode because I loved the spirit of infinite possibilities and thought. I even thanked JRD on Youtube last year for giving me the inspiration to be an intellectual which influenced my desire & career for computer science, the Internet and abstract enlightened thought. His character is a figure head to me along with Doc Brown, Rod Serling & TNG Picard among a few others that escape me at the moment.

And here we are now, almost 30 years later with science & math & entertainment highlighting a quantum multiverse idealism among many other story lines from the show that keep coming true. AI & viruses, political ideals & so on. The show has basically become a prophet of modern times, which is surreal to me. Lol I'm waiting for scientists to clone Dinosaurs & have a park in california any day now.

If I were to be excluded from such a community that I believe also sees the show as I do, for better or worst would be like taking away something deep in my heart I held onto through decades of ignorant arguments over how bad it got & how "off the rails" it became and also never knowing if it would ever come back to air. I wish I could be as dedicated as other core fans but as daily life pulls us away from the things we love that didn't happen. Plus I never liked the idea of a fan because it's short for fanatic. I always considered myself a strong admirer of stories, scifi & Sliders. Maybe I place too much weight on the show but in a world that has flipped upside down from the world of the 90s I once knew & experienced, the show has turned into a beacon of light. I myself at the moment am going through difficult times trying to find a job against bot application denials from over experience & under official education in tech career & minimal experience with hand based, trade or fast food jobs. Staying with family after losing savings due to the pandemic. I'm not looking for any handouts, only providing perspective. I've been rewatching the series this week, thinking about where I could go from here in my life. I'm sorry for dumping this but I hope you understand. Sliders in my eyes is a message of hope, not just on multiple worlds or Earths but on our Earth and in our darker or extreme times. The possibility and power of what if & imagination beyond the current now. A message of abstract enlightenment, not just with science or religion or a B level TV show but the sheer concept of possibility in the life we live & how we make those possibilities our reality on this planet.

---

just gonna comment on the first half first.   and first off, welcome to the board here.  there's some good discussion here, and I think you'll like  it.

regarding your comments quoted above, I totally agree sliders really taps into the  anything is possible thing that can give us a sense of hope.  as many of commented over the last year or two, some people wish they could escape out of this universe.  or like we are living in an alternative one.

i am not quite so sure things were as rosey as they seemed prior to 9/11 however.  we obviously had the gulf war (which led to 9/11).  moreover, i think there was a lot of ugly we simply were less exposed to on a daily basis, because we dont have social media.  the news cycle, which gets put on steroids, and injected into our veins, is a lot to take -- maybe more than humans were designed to handle.  but just because we didnt have to deal with some of the ugly realities as much, it doesn't mean they didn't exist.  i always feel though the 90s brought with them some trepidation, and as humans we also tend to almost need to find a crisis to fight against if things are relatively good.  maybe some surival mechanism.

JRD really was an influence  and an inspiration.  sliders gave me some idea of how penicillin / vaccines work.  nothing i ever learned in school. 

regarding your difficulties, please try to hang in there.  i always think of what i am lucky to have rather than what i am unlucky to not have.  and life can be a challenge, it's part of the deal.  just do your best but never lose your zest for the world, even if it's easy to.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

https://www.voicesvisions.net/episodes/sabrinalloyd

In this June 2021 podcast, Sabrina Lloyd says that she left acting because Hollywood was a lousy environment for a woman, but she still likes acting and would be happy to return to SLIDERS.

She has heard that Jerry and John have been "shopping it around," but she is genuinely at a loss as to how all the characters could be restored and doubtful that any studio or broadcaster would want to hire her and her castmates to headline a new revival or reboot. "We're all so old," she explains. But she says she would do it if asked so long as it didn't take her away from her children for too long and she'd ideally like to do a short six episode run.

So, Sabrina's in!

it's great to hear her voice again, and that she had a good experience with the other cast in the show, and she saw the potential in sliders.  and that people always recognize her for it.

65

(1,932 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Under various tests, the electrostatic charge has mostly broken down due to liquid, aerosol and particle exposure from inhaling and exhaling. Air exposure in storage has proven to be irrelevant at least within a four month period.

When an electrostatic layer gets soaked, it loses its static properties. (This rarely happens because a mask has an outer water resistant layer.) But every time you breathe through a mask, you are expelling moisture in your breath. The moisture goes through the mask. This is a very low level of moisture, but the droplets in your breath which will gradually cause the charge to lessen over time.

The other charge-reducing factor is particle exposure. As you breathe in and out, every particle that your mask filter catches with its static charge is a reduction in that static charge.

According to Collins' tests, after 38 hours in a "clean office environment," a mask with 99 per cent filtration would go down by 3 - 4 per cent. That's not bad, but that filtration level will only get lower and lower. If you're regularly passing through environments with lots of particles in the air, that charge will drop even more severely.

However, leaving a mask sitting unused didn't seem to cause the filtration to degrade within the four months Collins was testing this. Air is not being forced in and out through the filter when the mask isn't worn. You have to breathe through it to wear the filter down.

N95 masks are sold with an expiry date of five years after they were produced, presumably because the electrostatic charge can't last indefinitely.


Thank you, this is great information.

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(1,932 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I don't believe anything can preserve the static charge aside from not wearing it. The reason a paper envelope is best for storage after wearing: moisture can evapourate from the mask and through the paper. The mask will dry, any virus lodged in the mask will become inactive, and the mask can be worn again after 72 hours (although I give it 96 to make it easier to keep track). A plastic ziplock bag won't allow moisture to lift off the mask; it will stay in the bag and on the mask.

Oh ok.  I thought if the mask was exposed to air that it naturally lost the electro static charge at the forty hr rate.  it sounds like wearing it is what is largely responsible for that loss, due to exhale and breath (carrying moisture discharge)?  rather than just air exposure (which is why I had asked about zip lock bags).

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(1,932 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Mechanical engineer Aaron Collins has done a lot of tests of KF94s and KN95s and recommends wearing them for 30 - 40 hours. This applies to any mask that uses meltblown polypropylene that filters through an electrostatic charge which includes N95s, KN95s, KF94s and surgical masks. The electrostatic charge dissipates as it goes to work in catching particles from air going in and out; in addition, earloops on masks stretch over time and what starts as a firm seal can become less firm after 30 - 40 hours. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_In-nBP6WkQ

At the start of each month, I set aside five boat-shaped ASTM Level 3 masks, one designated for each day. After a wearing, I put the worn mask in a paper envelope (marked with the day of the week) and let it sit for four days while moving onto the next mask. During those four days, any droplets will evaporate and any virus will become inactive. I also have surgical masks (with cord locks and PM2.5 filters) as backups, and those are also put in the paper envelope for four days after a wearing.

At the end of the month, I throw out the five ASTM3 masks and start on a new set of five. The surgical masks, however, I wear a lot less, so I use for two months before throwing them out and moving to a new set of backup surgicals. (I keep the cord locks, though.)

And as I've mentioned, KN95 manufacturing standards have proven extremely poor with at least 70 percent of KN95s in North America filtering less than the advertised 95 per cent, some filtering as little as 20 per cent. Whenever starting on a new brand of masks (three packs of KF94s, 10 packs of surgicals, 50 packs of ASTM3 boat shape masks), I always cut one open and check to make sure that there is a filtration layer inside with a static charge. I also put water in this test mask to ensure that fluids (and droplets) don't soak through.

thanks for that info.  in terms of storage, do you thing a paper envelope is superior to a plastic zip lock for storage (in term of preserving the static electric charge)?

68

(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I hope SLIDERS will return with the sliders.

I've been converting my SLIDERS stories to ebooks in ePub format. My SLIDERS stories feature the sliders in 2015, alive and well, somehow resurrected after 2000. I've been making covers that take the old publicity photos and digitally age the faces to feature Rembrandt in his 60s, Wade in her 40s, the Professor in his 70s and Quinn in his 40s.

It'd be good to see them all again.

https://iili.io/RAGXO7.th.jpg https://iili.io/RAGWRS.th.jpg https://iili.io/RAGVJ2.th.jpg https://iili.io/RAGGUl.th.jpg https://iili.io/RAGhb9.th.jpg https://iili.io/RAGOib.th.jpg

this is amazing...

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(1,932 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I hope you're right about the vaccines versus the Delta. They definitely keep you out of the hospital and out of the grave, but the reports of contagion among the vaccinated have rattled me a bit.

You seem to equate cloth masks with surgical masks. That simply isn't true.

Cloth is indeed near-useless as a filtration medium, but surgical masks are made from meltblown polypropylene. They have a water-resistant filter, an electrostatic layer and an inner layer for skin comfort can filter viral particles. But to protect, a mask with these layers must firmly adhere to the face and leave no gaps around the nose and mouth. Masks with these filters fail to protect not because of the filtration but because of the fit, and fit can be amended.

I have reviewed and personally taken apart N95 masks, KN95 masks, KF94 masks and surgical masks. The N95 is the gold standard because it wraps around the back of the head and clamps to the face to seal off the nose and mouth -- but aside from that, the filtration, while heavily layered (five layers), is ultimately acting on the same principle of the KN95s, KF94s and surgical masks: a water resistant layer to block droplets and an electrostatic layer to ensnare viral particles.

KN95s have the same number of layers and the same filtration, but Chinese manufacturers have had a lot of trouble meeting N95 filtration standards because many of these plants were previously making T-shirts and socks. These masks often break easily or have massive gaps in the electrostatic filtering or don't have all the layers of an N95.

KF94s have four layers and the same filtration, they seal firmly to the face, and they are extremely reliable because South Korea actively inspects manufacturers and fines any business with substandard output and poor quality masks never make it out of the country. However, the filtration rates have proven to be the same; the extra layers of an N95 make it harder and more resilient to wear and tear but adding a fourth and fifth layer only provides diminishing returns.

The material used in surgical masks have nearly the same filtration levels as N95 masks despite only three filters. They have an outer water resistant layer, an inner electrostatic layer and a layer for facial comfort. The problem is not the material; it's that surgicals are shaped like flat rectangles and can't align to the three dimensional shape of a human face. They don't seal firmly, at least not out of the box, and because they leave gaps at the sides, their filtration is estimated at 60 - 80 per cent depending on the face.

However, a surgical can be amended with putting cord locks on the earloops to tighten the surgical mask's grip against the face. They can be further augmented by adding an additional PM2.5 filter inside the mask which can be firmly pressed against the mouth and nose by a tightly fitting surgical.

Do you know of k95 lose most of their usefulness (in terms of unique qualities k95 is supposed to provide) once you use them X number of times / its age?   Because if the static electric charge is the 'point' i am pretty sure a lot of that can go away over time and i keep re-using the same ones but maybe I'm not really getting much of that added k95 benefit? 

Like, are we supposed to change these things every week or something?

edit: sorry in your last post you mention every forty wears.  Is that a number that pertains to k95?

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

TemporalFlux wrote:
RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:
Tucker wrote:

but then again, I am not sure cw would hold any value of having jerry o'connell and jrd on their network.  since their target audience has little interest in those people.

CW has a history of bringing legacy actors onto a series.  Annette O’Toole had a supporting role on Smallville, and Christopher Reeve had a guest spot.  John Wesley Shipp, Helen Slater, Dean Cain and Teri Hatcher had recurring roles on the Arrowverse shows.

So it’s possible, but I couldn’t see Jerry or JRD as the stars. They would be supporting actors.  To be honest, I’m starting to wonder if Jerry would even have time to be the star of Sliders.  Jerry is now hosting The Talk, hosting Pictionary and voicing Star Trek: Lower Decks.  A supporting / recurring role on Sliders may be all Jerry could manage.

I assume covid messed with production, but his WGN show might be a possibility too.

I don't think CW would be opposed to JOC and JRD but I am not sure they would see value in the Sliders brand if it's not gonna pull in twenty year olds.   They might just do a mutliverse show without it in that case.

It still would be worth pitching though and you are  right that our gang would have  to be supporting  cast.  Which Jerry would be thrilled with.

John?  NOT SO MUCH big_smile

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Tucker wrote:

I feel like it might be kind of cringeworthy on CW. I think personally it should go on a streaming network like Netflix or Amazon or Peacock.

And to add on to Ib’s note from earlier. I’ve seen people on Reddit say they would like to see a follow up to the Seer. I don’t think Torme is going to do that. He hasn’t seen seasons 4 and 5 and what he saw of season 3 after he left, he was highly critical of. I feel like if there is any sort of explaination it will be that these are the sliders we met in 1995 and somehow down the line, we started following the wrong ones. Either that or a show focusing on a different set of sliders entirely.

i would imagine amazon or netflix would find the idea of sliders (especially a continuation) on their networks cringeworthy.  cw would be fine if they continue it with a reboot, featuring a young protagonist.  but then again, I am not sure cw would hold any value of having jerry o'connell and jrd on their network.  since their target audience has little interest in those people.

72

(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Classchic1 wrote:
RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

If Peacock won't do it, then SyFy Network should do it.  That would be awesome, especially because their programming is linear and it would be fun to get a roll out weekly rather than a binge in one day sorta thing.

Maybe the CW? I mean it's the home of Supernatural. (They even got away with Scooby-Doo and Supernatural crossover.) wink

good idea..

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(3 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Tucker wrote:

I was inspired to start a pin collection since I already had some attached to my jacket.

Was wondering if anyone knew if there were any Sliders related pins? I did some research but couldn't find anything sad.


closest reference i can give u
https://thumbs.worthpoint.com/zoom/imag … a8d817.jpg

https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ … 1829568375

There's also the pin when Arturo is a candidate in The Weaker Sex.
https://sliders.fandom.com/wiki/The_Wea … S01E08.JPG

Bet some fans have made that.

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(413 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I haven't.  Is it any good?  I like Rami Malek from what I've heard.

I just came here to say (probably for the fifth time) that Robert Floyd is really good on Bar Rescue.  He doesn't really come off as an actor, but he comes off as a genuine guy with a passion for this stuff.

it was put out in 2019 and i only heard about it the other day. i've listened to a couple episodes.  i'm super impressed, the sound design is incredible, rami is good, writing is good.

i mentioned it because it's one of the first times i've seen a project that would normally be brought to tv instead by done in podcast audio drama format.   that's relevant because i think it's something syfy or peacock should be doing with torme's sliders if they are gunshy about spending the money on a pilot or series.

what's interesting is BLACKOUT not only got a "second" season but it also now is being rolled out for tv.  Audio dramas in podcast format can be something of a test environment.

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(4 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

hgtv has a streaming app.  if they own the rights to clean sweep, it may be on there..

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(413 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Anyone ever hear (of) the podcast drama series BLACKOUT with rami malek?

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(7 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

Well at least he'll be free to do the Sliders reboot, lol.

or maybe it will force a sliders reboot to be shot in los angeles smile

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

If Peacock won't do it, then SyFy Network should do it.  That would be awesome, especially because their programming is linear and it would be fun to get a roll out weekly rather than a binge in one day sorta thing.

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(7 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Tucker wrote:

Thanks!

And yes, I’ve listened to that Sliderscast episode. ireaction’s thoughts were very insightful. He should host his own Sliders podcast.

I think so too!  The essay format in his guest appearance was unique and filled with depth. It reminded me of NPR / public radio pieces.

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(7 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Here you go tucker:

https://catchyouontheflipslide.podbean.com/

Ireactions did an amazing analysis of into the mystic for sliderscast in a guest episode.  Don't miss that one.

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(7 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Another active sliders podcast is "Catch You on the Flipslide"

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(3 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

sliders uses parallel universes to create a new episode of the twilight zone each week.

mcu uses parrallel universes to re-use characters without breaking continuity or to unite disparate characters in one story.  the producers were even calling blade runner an "alternate universe" when the sequel came out in 2017 and los angeles was not quite what the original film was like.  use of the multiverse is kinda inevitible because it's convenient.  but a different use than sliders does it.

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(2 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

justin roiland -- the creator -- was once interviewed while wearing a sliders t-shirt.  so pretty obvious sliders (and back to the future) along with some other stuff is an influence.

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(675 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

welcome back! and yes, be careful.

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(1,932 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/environ … s-n1272938

Completely insane Bitcoin mining.

crazy...

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

If it came back with original cast, especially Sabrina too, and Tracy at the helm, than it imo is every true sliders fan's dream to come true.  Wow how great would that be.  A second shot at what we loved. I won't let myself get overly excited until we hear it actually is going into production but it would be special if it happened.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Well, I would argue that the budget in S4 - 5 was severely mismanaged by:

  • That ridiculous Chandler Hotel set which was lavish, overlarge and devoured the episodic budget with its rental and maintenance fees

  • The constant emphasis on stories that are presented and resolved in terms of gunfights, vehicle chases, fistfights, laser beams, historical reenactment groups playing cowboys and civil war soldiers, motorcycle stunts, etc.

  • Repeatedly stripping episodes of their episodic budget to set aside money for a grand scale series finale (that was never filmed)

  • Leather jackets

I think Torme wouldn't have written scripts that needed an action budget and therefore wouldn't strain against the restrictions the way the Sci-Fi years often did.

The leather jackets pretty much summed up those seasons!

There were some scripts however that could have played better with a bigger budget.  The universal lot looked like a lot, so many of the episodes looked the same.  It def. had an impact on quality imo.  That said, it was also Sci-Fi's no. 2 show... almost no. 1.

Parallels was a pilot shot for fox digital five or so years ago.  They filmed in a foreign location to help drive down cost and did some amazing thing with CGI.  I got the sense it was done for like 500k to 800k.  So there certainly are ways.  If the stars are willing to go to a less than desirable location. 

The thing is, whether Sliders comes back on a SyFy or a Peacock, you don't want to set the budget too high to the point where it is unprofitable (even nbc's manifest can't find a new home despite being no. 1 on netflix for example)... but  you also don't want to set it too low where (a) it's not a strong enough (standout enough) final product where it can't attract an audience beyond hardcore fans, and (b) fails to make the network or streamer an irreplaceable part of those viewers' lives.  Because that passion is what drives cable subscription fees to the network or in the case of premium, sign-up or audience retention.   

I still think it's more challenging to have a many-worlds show moreso stuck on a lot but you are right that tracy is very clever and might be able to go with more subtle differences in worlds to create interesting situations.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I don't know if SLIDERS needs to be an expensive show. It could be filmed in Toronto with stock footage of San Francisco intercut with studio and outdoor shots. The harbourfront could represent the coastal areas of San Francisco. SLIDERS only has one critical effect: the vortex. Alternate realities on the Torme model are best presented through set dressing, signs, costuming, news articles and segments, dialogue and performances, not computer generated special effects. Crises are addressed through conversation and negotiation. Peacock could probably do a SLIDERS reboot with a new cast, a revival with the original cast, a Disney Channel style version and might still have spent less than they did on SAVED BY THE BELL.

perhaps.  however, we saw some of that on season 4&5.   I think the show benefits from having a lot of locations to utilize, but that drives up the cost.

back in 95, i think s1 was about 1.4m per episode. s2 and 3 about 1.2.  then with syfy it got to be 600-800k.

although I do agree tracy is such a talent, you could probably do something still interesting without many locations.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

Well Cabbie, this is the time to push for projects on Peacock.  NBC are pushing for new projects to up the subscriber base.  A couple years from now, they'll be like Netflix and not want to spend any money.

I think they spent a billion dollars on programming and made like 100-150m on it last year.  So they are in the hole significantly.  A lot of key execs actually lost their jobs. 

Point being, Peacock is gonna be very careful about what they put money into now, but they have seen some success with Girls5Eva and maybe a couple of other things.  Making peacock a success is important to  the future of the company (though there's  been some rumors they may have to throw in the towel and merge with another giant if they can't see a path with it).  Something like Sliders they'd really have to be convinced of to greenlight.  They already have streaming numbers of the library to make some assumptions on consumer interest on.  I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility they could give it a shot because it is so hard to create new shows/brands now. 

We just have to also appreciate they don't have a lot of ability to greenlight many originals.  Not many bets they can take so any of these decisions are big for them but they may say we'll give it a shot.  They of course did go for nostalgia with Saved by the Bell and Punky Brewster.  I am not sure how they'd assess the success of those bets.

But in any case, either Peacock or SyFy would be a great home for it.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Who knows, maybe SyFy channel or Peacock would bite.  There was a time a few years ago, when everyone was trying to chase prestige tv and mimick AMC/USA's success.  Sliders was looked down upon, seen as hoaky.  Perhaps development execs will be warmer to the franchise given all their failures in trying to create new ones.  The biggest issue is just how big Sliders is?  Too cult?  Too many years ago?  Maybe, maybe not.

Sliders cost money to do right because it's based on the premise of a different world of the week.  If Tracy has an approach that is interesting enough from a character perspective, and a network/studio thinks programming can be done at a medium range, perhaps lower end of that, budget level then maybe we get to see the gang back together?

One thing is for sure.  Tracy has always been ahead of his time from a creative perspective.  He's never been given full runway as a creator to just go with his gut.  But the man can create something interesting to people, and that's not the case for every creator in hollywood who gets an opportunity.  So I hope he is given a chance to do Sliders again -- because maybe we'll get more storytelling that lasts the test of time, at least to some audience.

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(183 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

JWSlider3 wrote:

I talked to Tormé last night. He said that they are still in talks. He said that he written a pilot script that would explain what has happened time wise and  character wise.

He still seems very optimistic about the shows return and wants me share with the forum that things are moving forward.

JWSlider3

that's awesome!

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(110 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Always blows my mind how Allison Mack and that Keith guy were talked about on here before it became a story.  Today, unfortunately for her she gets sentenced. I feel bad for her but at the same time, no matter how swept up she was, she had agency.  And seemed to do some crazy things.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

So... is it offensive? Is it not offensive? I don't know what I think. Will you tell me what to think? My copy of WHITE FRAGILITY is not helping me in this matter.

it's not really my place to say either way -- i'm pretty sure there'd be folks within the black community who would laugh at it and folks who would be offended. and the former may be a bigger group of people but if people are really offended, and there's enough of them, then their feelings have to matter, even if outnumbered.

i don't look at the episode with any sort of shame but i think people have a right to have a conversation about it and they should be listened to.  but right now, i have yet to hear of anybody having that conversation around that episode that who are within the black community.  it's obviously very old content and i think that sort of conversation would take place  if it were a new show on a platform like netflix.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I really enjoy it, but I can't speak to the racial and cultural implications. I'm not accusing it of anything; I'm just saying that as a Chinese-Malaysian-Canadian, I am not qualified to say whether or not it is a respectful and appropriate presentation of black culture. I absolutely love this episode and deeply enjoy it, but if a black person wanted to tell me why I shouldn't, I would welcome it, hear it and reconsider whether or not I like it.

yes, it's fair to say it is very troupe-y.  john landis really disliked the Rembrandt character where tracy thought it was over the top political correctness to criticize.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

"The King is Back" finale in FakeD.
https://mega.nz/folder/Ph5GBYxQ#KAHjapDSD1ReV3kWVSmNAg

Not sure what to say about this one. It is very funny, but music is not one of my strengths. Also, I don't know about Torme's writing for black characters. Some have criticized it as a racist caricature; some have seen it as based on Torme's friendships with musicians. All I can say is that Cleavant Derricks is a wonderful actor and I love how he takes Rembrandt's torment and makes it all funny.

There's something I really like about the feel of that episode.  Not sure if it's the directing, production design, wardrobe, cinematography etc but it feels a little..... cinematic?  The way the 80s/90 comedies felt.

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(6 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Tucker wrote:

ireactions inspired me to post my fanfics here so in case anyone is interested, I have a whole set.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/171b … sp=sharing

The way I framed mine was an alternate season 3. Episode 1 is Slide Effects which is NOT written by me. That is Ireaction's/Torme's story. Anyways, that resets the show back to after season 2. I keep a few season 3 episodes mainly Double Cross, Dead Man Sliding, The Guardian, Season Greedings and Murder Most Foul albeit you would have to assume they would happen slightly differently and have some slight changes to them. I already make it cannon that it's still set in Vancouver's San Francisco and they still have their season 2 haircuts and wardrobe lol.

To add in, I rewrote a few season 4 episodes with the original cast. Those would be Alternateville Horror, Lipschitz Live! and Roads Taken.

I also provided a rewrite of The Exodus which was closer to John Reye's Davies' idea for the story. That means no Rickman, Maggie and no Arturo dying.

I also have three pure original stories. How to Save a Life, Virtual Lucidity and Forgiveness.

I haven't written anything since May but I will continue to post if and when I write anything else. Read of them what you will. Hope you enjoy. Feel free to give any feedback if you like or dislike them.

thanks for posting this, will check it out!

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

And one Nvidia graphics card reinstall later, we are back! Presenting Quinn and Wade's first (and last?) date in FakeD: https://mega.nz/folder/Ph5GBYxQ#KAHjapDSD1ReV3kWVSmNAg


cool

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Sadly, I won't be able to try this software. I thought about downloading it, but ultimately didn't because my gaming laptop is currently upscaling all my DUE SOUTH DVDs to 720p and I can't stop it right now to try a different software. Maybe you could take a run at some of the SLIDERS episodes.

Anyway. Get ready to see clips of Quinn and Wade's first date tonight in FakeD. :-D

unfortunately, it didn't work on my computer, as I have an older version of Windows.  So no luck.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Just a heads up guys.  There's a DVD AI upgrade enhancer software package normally 200 bucks that is free today.

https://sharewareonsale.com/product-tag … tive-deals

Search dvdfab video enhancer AI on the page.

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(318 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Just want to reiterate how great this experiment was and thank Ireactions for it.  I'm not sure Universal could do a better job than the samples.