61

(18 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Finished the season. I will say that the season didn't end the way I thought it would, and I'm not sure how I feel about that. Story-wise, it was great and definitely left me wanting more... the issue I have was with how they left me wanting more. Since I don't know when the series is actually coming back, I'm not quite sure how I feel about how they left things though. At least they *are*  coming back, so I'm not left hanging.

Overall, I think the series worked really well. As ireactions says, the mix of characters provides a weird tone for the show, but it really worked for me. It didn't feel false, and I didn't feel any of the limitations put on the series. To me, it made sense to always have Bruce seen from a distance or in the background, because a lot of the series was about how alone Dick felt.


Going into the series, I was worried that it would be too cartoonish and cheap, but the show was beautifully shot (I think it's time for network TV shows to adopt a more forgiving schedule, because they're not keeping up with streaming shows). Anna Diop got some backlash when she was cast as Starfire, and I wasn't sure of the way they were portraying her when I saw photos early on, but she became a great character.

The show wasn't perfect, but it was one of the most enjoyable shows that I've watched in a while. Even if I didn't have to cancel my subscription within a few days, I probably would have blown through the season as quickly as I did. I just wanted to keep watching.

I'm really excited to see more of what DC Universe has to offer. I hope this doesn't go by way of the Arrowverse.

62

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

It'd be smart of Amell to en the show now. When the series began, his status as an actor was given a boost. However, the show has been on for a long time and the quality is falling, and he's now tied to a sinking ship. The longer he stays, the more damage will be done to his ability to get more work in the future.

Solution: Arrow ends this season (unlikely, since they'd probably want more notice of the show's ending) and Oliver returns for the crossover next season. During the crisis, he is presumed dead. Felicity accidentally stumbles into an elevator shaft. Diggle becomes Green Lantern and flies off to Oa. All of the other characters... forget that they exist.

Flash forward to some time in late 2019... a totally-unrelated-to-the-Arrowverse Roy Harper shows up on Titans.

Let's just say that as soon as Fisk was released, Karen called Frank and tipped him off to a boatload of children being smuggled out of the country in some other state, because she knew that Frank couldn't do subtle and would probably get himself locked up (and also there was the boatload of innocent kids being smuggled, which she found herself incapable of handling at the moment)... however, this was a boring conversation, so it was kept off-screen.

64

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I wouldn't be surprised to see Legends end, and maybe a shortened final season of Arrow. Supergirl and Black Lightning probably should end, but probably won't.

65

(18 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Nine episodes down...

If I had to put the series into any other previous show's universe, I might say Smallville. Though it's definitely darker, and more mature. There is language and nudity, but there's something about the way that they're building the world that feels Smallville-ish, on some level. Which is weird, because it doesn't necessarily look like Smallville. I can't really place why that seems like the most likely connection to me. Maybe one of you can explain that. smile


There are things that I wish were built up more smoothly, or which weren't forced into season 1. The Dick/Kory thing seems entirely unnecessary, and they should have taken more time to build up to that. Also, the Doom Patrol episode feels like an aside, even though it's a big episode for Gar. However, for the most part, I'm still really liking the show. Episode 9 is another episode that steps to the side of the main arc of the series, and yet it was a very compelling, beautiful, tragic story. Hawk and Dove really stand out in this series.

The depictions of Jason Todd and Donna Troy have also been really interesting to see. It's weird how huge this story and this universe feel after only 9 episodes. Part of that is because of the comic books, but part of it is also because they've managed to do a good job of building the universe within the series. The world already allows for normal vigilantes, metahumans, aliens, magic, and anything else that they might throw at us. However, it still feels grounded and "real", in terms of the danger that is looming.

I also appreciate the fact that they don't make the fights look pretty or clean. When Dick fights people, it's a messy, bloody, painful scene. It's not the clean sort of "punch a bad guy and they fall down, unconscious" sort of fight scene that we see so often in these series. At the same time, that brutality is used to highlight something broken in Dick. It's a really interesting dynamic.

66

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Late response to the Superman thing...

I have liked a few different takes on Superman. I liked Smallville's take, and the Lois and Clark take (which were both more human). I liked the animated series, which was leaning more toward alien, since he spent most of his time as Superman. My favorite is Man of Steel, which is pretty much what was described above, with Clark being pretty human, but with an interest in where he comes from. Clark embraced that heritage in the movie, but it didn't change the fact that he views humanity as his people, because this is what he knows. If anything, learning about that heritage made him more like a normal American.

The only depictions that I really have a problem with are the ones that paint Clark Kent as a fabrication, and portray the character as being very alien. Even if he had no parents, no friends growing up, no home, none of the moral compass that the Kents gave him, he would have grown up on Earth. Clark Kent is the person he was before the costume. Now, there could be a bit of exaggeration of certain traits when he is in public (both as Clark and as Superman), but the "real" person is who he is when he is sitting at a table with his mother or Lois. Depicting him as super alien is like me going to Ireland and telling people that I'm Irish. They'd look at me as though I were an idiot, because I'm clearly American. I can have an interest in the history, the culture, the accents, the folklore, etc, but I'm not of that place. I can't change my life experience.

Superman was created as not just a version of Moses, but as a version of what America is. It's a place where people come from all around the world, and they *become* American. That isn't true in every country (especially when the character was created). In a lot of the world, an immigrant is always an outsider. Not shamed or looked down upon, but not really one of the group either. In America, you can have the alien backstory and be as American as the guy who was born here. Having the character depicted as having grown up here, as part of an American family and an American town, yet existing outside of that, feels wrong for the character.

I don't know every version of the character, or every writer who has written him. I'm just talking about how I've viewed the character since I was a little kid, and why so many versions of the character bored me, or just felt wrong to me.



As far as the Batwoman series goes, I don't really see a need for it. There are too many comic book shows on the CW, from the same producers, who are already spread too thin. The character didn't make that much of an impact in the crossover. I think the network should be cutting back, more than expanding on this universe.

67

(742 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Apologies for my slow replies... I've been pretty sick since just before Christmas, so I haven't been online very much.

I don't have a lot of experience with changing the resolution of my screen. I have a good battery, so I keep it turned up and it lasts me all day. However, I just did a quick toggle, just to see the difference, and I have to say that there is a noticeable change in text. The lower resolution almost looked like I needed a better prescription for my glasses. And, of course, video is very different in higher resolutions.

If you're not used to the higher resolution and you don't notice any fuzziness, you're probably fine with keeping it low. However, since I always have it turned up to the max resolution, turning it down to the lowest setting did make a big difference. I didn't try a middle setting, and I only tried this for a few seconds. It's hardly an in-depth study.

68

(18 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I signed up for the one-week free trial and I plan to get through the whole season in that one week. Given the quality, I may then shell out the money for a month or two, later in the year, when other shows are available. But I probably won't do a regular, year-long subscription.

I'm creating a new thread for this universe. I've watched three episodes now, and I can't see it being a part of the Arrowverse. I think it is so much more than the Arrowverse, in terms of writing, acting, cinematography, music... Everything. Whereas I couldn't force myself to watch the three episode Arrowverse crossover in one sitting this year, I found myself compelled to keep watching more Titans.

The characters are troubled, weathered, broken people, but they're all uniquely so, and it's not written in a shallow way, just for the sake of being grim. There's history here. Some we know, and some we dont, but it all weighs on the series and adds depth to each scene. From previews and promo images, I worried that characters would be lame or annoying, but they're not. I love the Hawk and Dove characterizations. They're moody, yet sweet and funny, but tired. Kory does look like a hooker, which doesn't go unnoticed. However, she is also really smart and kind, and the contrast of what you expect by looking at her, and what you get from her actual character is really interesting.

I like what they've done with Dick so far. They don't pretend that we don't know his story, so they don't waste time retelling it. What they do is add layers to that story, which helps to create a whole world for these characters.

The show fully embraces the comic book nature of the stories, with costumes and wacky backstories, and characters with crazy hair colors. At the same time, it takes the story seriously and doesn't look down its nose at any of those things. It isn't cartoonist, but it isn't realistic either. It's like a good, mature comic book... Which is exactly what it should be.

I'm only three episodes in, but if things continue like this, I might actually pay to watch the DCU shows when they're fully available. It's refreshing to watch a DC show where I feel like the writers actually want to be there. I think it will pair well with Gotham, which is also coming back for its final season this week.

70

(120 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

With luck, this will cause courts and the government to revisit their views on Scientology and recognize them for the cult they are.

71

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

That would be fine if it made sense, but it doesn't. Clark was raised on Earth, by humans. Kara spent most of her childhood on Krypton. Why would she represent humanity, and he represent their alien heritage?

If they took the time to have any of this make sense, it'd be fine. But instead, they wanted Kara to be a female Clark. That doesn't leave room for the actual Clark/Superman.

Your niece has a valid point. While fan fiction can be a valuable learning tool, it is not professional writing (especially when such stories don't fit with the reality of the series, and most fanfic doesn't) and doesn't help a writer's career much. A writer can build a career in spite of fanfic, if it is good fanfic, but it's more the exception than the rule. You also don't want to look like you're trying to profit off of copyrighted material.

I don't really hide my fanfic past, but I also don't really associate it with my professional writing work. For that matter, I connect my author name with my face and real/acting name as little as possible, because I don't want to have some of those conversations on set. I like to keep my world's separate. Your niece is building a brand, and trying to control the image of that brand is smart.


Side note: If the word "fetish" ever comes up in a conversation with my niece, I'm bleaching my brain.

73

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

You're doing that thing again, where you're having a conversation with yourself and attributing half of it to me. smile

It's true that I have a favorite idea of what Superman/Clark Kent should be. I do prefer the version where he sees humanity as his people, while having a respect for his alien heritage. This makes the most sense to me, since he was raised with humans and this would be his experience. If you plopped him down on Krypton, that world would be more alien to him than Earth. It's the same as if you plopped me down in one of the countries where my ancestors came from. I might have a curiosity about those cultures in some way (though I really have no more or less interest in my ancestral cultures than I do any other cultures, so I may be a bad example), but they are not my culture, and those lands are not my home. I have more connection to my Asian neighbors across the street who don't speak a word of English than I do to a random person from Ireland.

That said, I can also accept a version of Clark that feels neither here nor there, if it's done well. The thing about Man of Steel is that while Clark sees humanity as his people, he also feels like an alien among humans until he fully accepts his heritage. At that point, he doesn't become a Kryptonian, he becomes like most Americans.

It's not about any version of the character having to be written any one way. It's about the choices that the writers make when they decide how they want to write him. I have a hard time accepting Superman as someone who is super alien and who sees himself as more Kryptonian than human, because I think that violates so much of what makes Superman who he is. It also makes no sense, given his upbringing. The thing that makes Superman different than Martian Manhunter, or any of the other alien superheroes is that he has a alien DNA, but a human upbringing. That humanity is one of his super powers. It's his compass. However, the animated series' Superman was fine, and he was much more alien than I typically prefer the character to be.

This is also why Kara is such an important figure in the Superman lore, in my opinion. She is a character with the same DNA, the same powers, but who actually remembers Krypton and who really is alien. She is the balance and the contrast. She is what Superman would be without the foundation that the Kents built. She's not bad. She's not less than him. But she has a different experience.

That's what frustrates me about Supergirl, the series. They didn't write Kara as her own character. They wrote her as a copy of Superman, but they didn't remove him from the picture. So now we have two of the same character, and Superman can't make Kara look smaller or weaker, or less capable in any way (despite his many years of experience). So we have a watered down Superman. Then we have the CW requirement that all of their characters be supermodels, so he has to be younger than he should have been, while Cat was established as both his contemporary and as Kara's older mentor. Then we have a Lois who has to be CW pretty and young, yet who is supposed to have the years of experience and wisdom... It's a mess. And it's because the story wasn't a priority.

Tyler isn't a bad actor. He might even be okay as some version of the Superman character (actually, he'd have made a cool Connor Kent on Supergirl. Obviously, one who is a bit older than we normally see him). However, they chose not to cast someone who would tower over Kara or make her look small, and every time I've seen him used (before I stopped watching Supergirl), it seemed like Superman was being written down in order to raise Kara up. And this was mostly necessary because they chose to write them as more or less the same character anyway (except he's too afraid to be a woman, or whatever). He comes across as weaker than he should, less seasoned than he should, and... really, he seems like a sidekick. They should have cast someone older, who seemed more weathered and wise, and who would command the audience just by being present in a scene. However, the impression is that this would make Kara look weak and less capable than a man, and since feminism trumps story in this series, that can't be allowed to happen. This is a weakness of the character. He doesn't come across as someone who has been through the worst of it and come out the other side. He comes across as watered down.


When Henry Cavill was cast as Superman, I wasn't happy. This was because it was a time when DC seemed to be leaning away from the character's American roots, and more toward that "citizen of the world" crap. It seemed like they might be taking the character in the wrong direction, and I did think that it might be hard for a foreign actor to understand that sense of American patriotism, because most people in other countries that I've heard speak on the subject really don't get why Americans are so rah-rah American. However, Snyder didn't shy away from those roots at all, and I get the sense that Cavill is patriotic himself (though obviously to his own country), so he could understand that aspect of the character. I was right to worry, but I was ultimately proven to be wrong about Cavill.


Basically, it comes down to motivation and writing. If the writers could show me a Superman who was raised on Earth, yet felt mostly Kryptonian, and they did it in a way that was well considered and made sense for that character, that'd be fine with me. It's a hard sell, but any Superman story is a hard sell for me. Keep in mind, before Man of Steel, I was firmly on the Batman side of the age-old debate. For me, it's never been about making me believe that a man could fly. It was about making me believe that a flying alien could be a person.

74

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I stumbled onto this today....is this you, Informant?!!? big_smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VJe5KHfOtlM


Hahaha... no. He was nicer than me.


I hate to sound like a broken record, but it once again seemed to me like the writers don't actually care about these stories or characters. I've been rewatching Eureka lately. It's an absurd show, filled with nonsense and insanity, from the Scifi Channel (and probably a low budget) but everyone involved was so committed to that universe that it never felt fake. I was never left wondering why characters would do incredibly stupid (yet convenient for the writers) things without anyone commenting on it, and I never really thought that the emotions were false, even when it was completely unrealistic.

The problem that I had with Elseworlds from the very beginning was one of my biggest peeves in lazy writing. The fact that a simple conversation would instantly clear up the misunderstanding. Why wouldn't Oliver just tell Iris that he wasn't Barry? And that decision snowballed into this insane plot where nobody believed Oliver and Barry, despite the fact that Cisco would probably have a body-swap preparation kit tucked under his desk at all times. There was no reason for any of them to doubt Barry and Oliver. And to top it off, even if they didn't believe them, again, a simple conversation would clear it up. "Okay 'Barry', where did you first confess your love for Iris?" Oliver wouldn't know that.

And yeah, you could say that it's all because the lazy plot device made it happen, but there was no indication that their actual memories of Barry and Oliver were altered, or that they were programmed to not trust them (as evidenced by their later reversal on this point). It was just convenient writing, for the sake of a chuckle and getting the script written.

The whole crossover event was like this. It was a concept, not a plot. And there were many ways in which that concept could have been turned into a legit and solid plot, but apparently it wasn't a priority. So instead, we're stuck with countless minutes of characters trying to sound as though these plot holes and contradictions make sense, but they really don't.


100% of this fail is the writers. I don't blame the actors. They are all solid in their roles. They have great chemistry. They managed to make me smile through the delivery of their lines, even while the writing failed them at every corner.


You'd think I went into this wanting to hate it and expecting to write this post. I actually didn't. I was stupid. I made it a whole big thing in my head. I saved all three episodes, so I could watch them as one big event. And after all of that, I couldn't do it. I got through two episodes and I had to step away for a while.



I really didn't feel anything about Batwoman either way. I thought she was a bit forced and some of her scenes were clunky, but she didn't leave enough of an impression for me to really like or dislike her.

I continue to say that this version of Superman is horrible. Miscast (and again, I like the actor in other roles, and have since he was a kid in Road to Perdition) and just horrible all around. And they made the mistake of calling back to Smallville. There is nothing as jarring as using the iconic Smallville shots, and the theme music, cutting to the iconic Smallville Kent farm... and seeing this mess of an adaptation in the place of Tom Welling. Tom had so much strength and presence in that role that you looked at him and saw Clark Kent/Superman. Tyler just doesn't.

And while I think that this Superman is poorly done, that opinion pales in comparison to my views on this Lois Lane. I hated her so much that I was disappointed when Superman managed to save her toward the end. The problem is, she didn't have a lot to do here, and what little time she had to be a presence in the Arrowverse, they wasted on political bullsh*t. Lois Lane is an iconic, strong, powerful, smart, kick-ass woman. They don't need to make her a shrill feminist, whining about the pay gap and quoting statistics regarding the superiority of women. They should have spent that time making her look like a strong, powerful, smart, kick-ass woman. Maybe have her interact with Iris and show Iris what this life looks like after so many years (though I'm not sure that we're supposed to remember how long Clark is supposed to have been at this, or how old Lois should be).

Lois managed to achieve in these short episodes what Felicity took years of groundwork to accomplish. And again, it's lazy writing. In the minds of these writers, having Lois throw in these political comments makes her looks tough and smart. To me, it looked like they didn't want to put in the work and build an actual character, so they used a generic template.

The Supergirl line about the villain guy being too afraid to be a woman was just cringe-worthy. It took what seemed like five minutes of forced dialogue to get to that line, and it didn't even make sense.


Okay, now I need to step off the hate train and discuss plot and characters in a more fanboy way...


Am I wrong in thinking that they've established that Alex and James exist on Earth-1? I assumed that they didn't, because none of the other Arrowverse characters exist on whatever Earth Supergirl is on, but it seems like they (and Batman) exist on both worlds. Could this play a part in the Crisis next year, and the shows possibly merging universes? Will they kill off the "real" Alex and Jimmy? I don't watch Supergirl, so I don't know how they set up Argo City. Would Clark and Lois be in any way protected from such a merge by being there?

Barry, Oliver and Kara really are fun to watch together. It reminds me of the old days with Oliver, Diggle and Felicity in a lot of ways. The fact that there's no romantic drama or anything like that makes that relationship more entertaining and less stressful. And while I know that we're talking about a yearly visit vs 23 episodes per season, it just made me realize how forced Arrow has become lately. Every scene and every line feels like it's being dragged into the episode against its will, at a point when the series should be writing itself.

The high point of the crossover was by far the way they styled Killer Frost's hair. The wig is usually iffy, but this look really worked for her.

Did they stop referring to Diggle as "Diggle" because they wanted to build up this Green Lantern thing? Is that why he is always "John" now? Because that has really been distracting me for the last couple of seasons.



I wonder if I should just cut and run. I feel like I'm such a downer in these discussions, because it feels like I rarely have anything nice to say about these shows anymore. I want to like them. I used to like them. I don't think that The Flash is nearly as bad as last season. I just wonder if I'm adding anything to the conversation, or if I'm just making it harder for everyone else to be excited about the shows they like.

With the Marvel movies, I've more or less stopped commenting after I watch them. Maybe I'll try that here.


With Titans having finished their season, I think I might sign up for the free trial of the DC Universe and try that after Christmas/New Year. So for anyone who has seen that one... does it just feel like the Arrowverse, or does it feel like something else?

75

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Does anyone think there's a chance that the flash forwards aren't really the future, and young William has been kidnapped and hooked up to some wacky machine in order to help someone infliltrate Felicity's world? (I say Felicity because Oliver appears to be totally irrelevant to that storyline)

I'm just trying to figure out how, without using time travel, these flash forwards could possibly add anything useful to the series. I still don't see a point in them. It seems like a lot of filler, to give other actors more time off.

Yeah. The studio also should have listened to the audience feedback of BvS, rather than the critic feedback. The audience never had a problem with length, and the Ultimate Edition of BvS usually gets pretty high grades amongst fans. Most criticism comes from what the studio meddled with. The lesson is to let Snyder make his movies. The strength of the DCEU is directors with vision, making the movies that they want to make. The more the studio tries to make everything like the Marvel machine, the less it works.

Snyder had a plan for a second movie, and because of that, he started to set up where this whole thing would go in previous movies. Without a payoff, the Batman dream stuff in BvS looks weird. The Lex Luthor stuff at the end of Justice League sets up a plot that we probably won't see on screen. Darkseid was supposed to appear at some point, but probably won't. But even just things like Clark's character arc, where we see his journey toward this whole person, won't be properly realized because we won't get the final chapter of that arc. We saw a glimpse of it, or some version of it, but it wasn't the way it was supposed to play out, and that bugs me.

Like I said, it isn't so much about what's on screen. I'm fine with most of the material that we have on screen. It's just the behind the scenes stuff, and wondering what Snyder's vision for the movie was. And it annoys me that the studio kicked him when he was down. It was such a low thing to do, because it really does seem like Joss was brought in to reconstruct the plot in a way that was sold as "Snyder has other things to deal with, so we're going to complete his vision as a team", but which was really "We want Snyder out, so we're going to take this opportunity to undermine his vision."

It doesn't seem like there was much love lost between Joss and certain members of the team who worked closely with Snyder. It does seem like Snyder is playing into the idea that his vision was different than what ultimately made it to screen, but he's not directly badmouthing anyone. There's a lot being said between the lines amongst people who worked on the movie.

I think that we'd be having some different conversations if the essay from Joss' ex hadn't come out. I think he was probably let go from the DCEU long before he was officially released, because he had no support to offer the JL when it was being released, aside from pointing out that he was responsible for a song that people liked.


The whole thing feels very "Sliders, season 3", only I do ultimately like the Justice League movie that was released. The movie gets a 74% audience rating on Rotten Tomatoes an a 6.5/10 on IMDB. I think some fans probably lower its score because they want the Snyder cut, but I'm not sure how to account for that in these numbers. It's not a bad movie at all. It's mostly Snyder's style, which I like. I think it's just tarnished by a series of unfortunate events, which makes it hard to see the movie without seeing the behind the scenes drama playing out. I can ignore Superman's face in those few scenes where the mustache was evident, as far as the movie itself is concerned, but it highlights other issues.

Justice League is a solid movie. It's fun, and I don't have a problem with Steppenwolf. I think the movie could have used more time to flesh out some of the characters and stories, but that's about it. Bits and pieces here and there weren't great, but not enough to go into.

That said, I do have some problems with what went on behind the scenes, and how that spilled over into the movie. The Superman material isn't bad, but the execution is sloppy. Unnecessarily sloppy, due to poor directing of the reshoots. I don't like that Snyder was messed with the way he was (and at a very bad time, when he probably didn't care enough to fight any of it). I don't like that huge chunks of the larger plan for what was going on were thrown out the window, making it look like sloppy writing/directing, when it was really the studio's fault that things went off track and character arcs weren't properly executed.

So much of the bad taste that the film left in the mouths of audience members was because the studio itself seemed to be sabotaging the movie.

Again, I like the movie. However, I can't watch it without wondering what the real version of this story was supposed to be. At points, it's like looking at a construction site and trying to picture what the place is supposed to look like when it's finished... but it's never finished.

Again, I hesitate to comment on what Justice League cost, or what sort of profit it ultimately earned. I just can't. All I can say with certainty is that whatever budget numbers we have are not the real story. Warner Bros was never all-in with the comic book movies, because they don't really understand them, so while I'm sure that there would be a Justice League 2 coming soon if the movie made billions, we also have to take into account the fact that Warner Bros snapped the backbone of Snyder's plan, and whatever comes next will take a while. They still have plenty of movies in the works, so they're not abandoning the DCEU that's been established.

Basically, when it comes to Warner, I haven't got a clue what to think. I like the movies, but I'm never sure what to expect when I go into one.

When it comes to Disney/Marvel, it seems like they want to take their toys and go home. On the one hand, it's a shame, because the Netflix shows were the best that Marvel has to offer right now. On the other hand, I'm fine with Daredevil ending on solid footing. More shows should do that.

I have to say, Netflix needs to stop spending money the way they do. Some of the deals they've made are insane, and they're not deals with reliable producers.

81

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Another example of the current writers of Arrow just not getting the show they're working on:

This week, an assassin broke into Felicity and Oliver's apartment. Oliver went to fight him. Felicity went to grab her handgun. Oliver stopped in his tracks to lose his sh*t over Felicity's handgun, including asking her where she got it.

For starters, where she got it should probably have just been... the store. It wasn't a rocket launcher. It wasn't a machine gun. It wasn't even the "should be illegal because it looks scary" AR-15.

Second, Oliver wouldn't react like that. He just wouldn't. It was a reaction born from the mind of someone who doesn't know guns (most people who freak out at the sight of a gun are reacting out of ignorance. Those who know weapons see guns in much the same way they'd see a hammer. It's a tool).

Oliver has tried training Felicity to defend herself on several occasions, and has failed at it. Someone in Oliver's shoes would *expect* his wife to own a gun, because it is the only way she would be able to defend herself against a normal attacker, much less a supervillain.

By this point, Felicity should be very well trained in how to use a gun, so there's no reason why Oliver should freak out. She sure as hell wasn't a pacifist before he went to prison. Maybe season 1 Felicity wouldn't own a gun. Season 2 Felicity probably would have.

That said, the way she was handling the gun was horrible. They should have had someone on set to teach her how to handle the gun, so that Felicity didn't look like an actress stumbling around holding a gun.


This isn't a pro-gun/anti-gun issue. These people regularly waged war in the middle of the city and mowed bad guys down on a nightly basis. We're way beyond that debate as far as the show is concerned. What this is about is the fact that the writers aren't capable of thinking of Oliver as a warrior, because they don't understand that mindset. They can't wrap their mind around Felicity pulling a gun, because that is something that would absolutely shock the crap out of the writers themselves, in their own lives. They are writing a show about a vigilante who just got out of prison because he's killed a bunch of people, freaking out over the fact that his wife just pulled a handgun on a guy who was literally trying to murder them in their own home... WHILE OLIVER WAS FREAKING OUT!

With probably 90% of TV characters, the gun freakout works. That's because 90% of TV characters are just regular people, with liberal politics, and they don't want anything to do with guns. When you play that card on a show like this, it's just comedic.


Sorry. It's a peeve of mine. I know that the writers want to play guns from their point of view, because they don't want the "wrong" message to get across. But it's not good writing. I'm not saying this because of my political views, and I hope that this doesn't turn into some political debate, because that's not the point.

They could have played a similar note, if Oliver said that if they're caught with a gun in their apartment, he could be sent back to prison. But they didn't even hint at that, so I'm not going to bother with that angle.


Also, I still don't care about the flash forward. Honestly, I'm sick of Felicity in the present. The fact that we know *know* she's still getting the spotlight 20 years from now doesn't help my interest in the show.

When it comes to the movies, it's really impossible to try to discuss budgets and success based on box office results. For decades, Hollywood has literally built an internal industry out of twisting their accounting in order to benefit their overall company. It's impossible to tell how the budgets are being juggled, and to what end. Warner Bros could say that they spent X amount of money on the film, while paying the bulk of that money to their own internal companies (and thus to themselves). Reporting less net profits means that certain parties would be paid less, due to how their contracts were negotiated. You'd think that more money equals more profits and success, but that is not necessarily the case.

Meanwhile, Marvel is operating on a whole other system.

So to say "Justice League cost this, but made that" is really impossible. What we can judge is how the movies performed at the box office, compared to other movies released that year. We have to leave the budgets and profits to the studios, because they're the only ones who really know what the hell they're doing. Half of it is probably illegal.


Do I think that the shows will be picked up by Disney+? No. I think there's a chance that we see some version of these shows on Hulu... meaning group miniseries, etc. Possibly using characters who aren't the title characters of the Netflix shows. I'm not saying that I think this will definitely happen, but a large part of what Disney has been doing over the past decade or so has been driven by bringing their properties "home". The Fox deal makes no sense to Disney without Star Wars and the Marvel titles. Even then, I'm not sure that it was worth what they paid. The fact that they now own a controlling share of Hulu is not something that they will be ignoring. They will want to build that brand far more than where it's at now, and bringing known titles to that service is one way to do that.

Disney+, as well as the Marvel movies, are family-friendly cartoonish franchises. Honestly, I'm not sure that the plan for that platform is looking good, from what I've seen, but we'll see. I still don't get how the movies perform so well. Though my nephews love them, so I guess that explains it a bit.

Hulu is a different creature though. As is FX. We have a show like Legion, which is far more Daredevil than it is Spider-Man Homecoming. We also have a movie like Deadpool, which is clearly never going to be streaming on Disney+. There is an audience for these more "mature" or "darker" shows and movies, and Disney now has the ability to display those titles under different brands, but they need Hulu to survive in order for that to work. Moreso than they need FX, really.

I expect some sort of investment in Hulu, with big titles, geared toward more mature audiences (hopefully they will pursue this through quality and not just cheap "sex sells" tactics). The Netflix universe would be a template for that, if not the direct source.


It's fun to speculate, but I guess we don't really know. We don't know what Disney wants to invest in, what it's willing to let die, and how much they are willing to spend/lose on either of those desires.

Has anyone seen the Runaways series on Hulu? I haven't tried it yet, so I'm wondering what the style of Hulu's one current Marvel show is.

Hard to say. Filming was completed, and all Joss oversaw was reshoots and editing. So it would depend on how much he actually wanted to reshoot, as opposed to what the studio and Joss wanted. There is a version of his film out there, just not his final version.

The seasons that they already have will probably stay on Netflix, but that doesn't stop Marvel from putting new shows/seasons on Hulu. Unless the Netflix deal gave them ownership of some part of these specific adaptations, but that's not likely.

Snyder is playing the Justice League thing totally right. He keeps releasing little nuggets about his cut, making the Snyder Cut a thing of legend. Warner Bros has to eventually release it, like the Donner Cut of Superman II.

True, but the Hulu element is still a thing. Especially with Daredevil, I think it would be a mistake to just pretend that they never happened. I don't see these shows showing up on the Disney streaming service, but I could see them on the same service as that Handmaid thingy show.

It has to be a plan to bring those properties back to a Disney-owned service. The thing is, I think Daredevil benefited from not being too "Disney". This is a company that is releasing a newly animated version of their classic animated movie, The Lion King, for absolutely no reason except that it will trick people into spending more money. They don't even have the "live action" angle to play with this one.

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There are parts of this season that are impressive, but there are also parts that just boggle my mind. Too much of the show feels like the writers didn't put any thought into it, and just went with whatever they thought would be cool.

The actual prison fight sequence this week was really impressive and well choreographed. It reminded me of season 1... and it reminded me why Oliver is better without a team of. I still don't get why we need Dina, Rene or Curtis. They're time wasters.

I have to say, I'm not a huge fan of the ARGUS stuff. I just don't think the writers have what's needed to pull off a strict government-run organization like that. It comes across (to me) as cartoonish in large doses. The writing works better with a team that is less official and less organized.

The flash-forward is a waste of time. I don't even know what we're supposed to be caring about with this story. They are dishing it out so slowly that it felt like weeks before we got anything more than veiled hints of a story, and now we have this big story with Star City in shambles and (possibly evil) Felicity (possibly) dead... and I'm still not sure what this has to do with the show that I'm tuning in to watch. The flashbacks made sense, because they were telling us how Oliver got to the point of being Green Arrow (even if the flashbacks themselves were weak after season 2). With the flash-forward... they just haven't given me a reason to be drawn into the "mystery" of that story, or how it will impact the present-day storyline. The producers have said that Roy is really *our* Roy, which would seem to debunk the alternate-universe theory.

I don't know. so far, it just seems like another excuse to make Felicity the central focus of the series. She's the one who sent the thing to William (who was apparently just forgotten in boarding school for twenty years). She's the one who set up this scavenger hunt. She's the one whose building they're searching (remember when the Flash newspaper hinted at Oliver reclaiming his family business/legacy somehow?). She's the one who possibly went evil. She's the one who is shockingly dead... Why is Oliver's son's storyline wrapped up in his step-mother, whom he lived with for less than a year? The show should just be called "Felicity"... but then it'd be confused with that other show, with the much less melodramatic lead character.

I don't get why Diaz is still a thing. The only reason that he is still alive is because people keep letting him live and escape for some reason. He's not threatening or scary, like Slade or even Adrian Chase. He doesn't have a master plan, like Malcolm Merlyn in season 1. He's just... there. And everyone is scared of him, despite the fact that they track him down and confront him in every other episode.

Level 2 really didn't make sense. Aside from the fact that Talia shouldn't have been there (sorry, I don't care how scary of a fighter she is, she's not going to be put in that prison with a bunch of the most dangerous male criminals). In the end, Level 2 seemed like a way to burn off an episode.


I think they mentioned the Suicide Squad, when they brought up Turner's history. I think they implied that it just wasn't a thing anymore. We'll just have to go with it, I suppose.


Some of the stuff in the prison was interesting. They should have focused more on Oliver in there, and less on the drama with all of the other characters who are only on screen because they're under contract. The city falling apart without him was an interesting idea, but poorly executed. I don't want to make it sound like I'm criticizing all female writers, since I think there are some who could really do this show justice (and because the men involved with the show have been just as bad), but specifically with the writers who have been running Arrow, I don't think they care about or "get" the action/superhero stuff. They focus too much on the relationship drama and the teary-eyed arguments, and the false-feeling soap opera elements. The action/superhero stuff feels like an afterthought, or something that they only do because they have to. I don't think that these showrunners are right for this show. I don't think they know when, or how, to hit hard with the story. The show would benefit from a producer who was excited about Green Arrow, and comic books and action, and all of that stuff.

This season isn't the worst that the show has ever been. It just seems like the writers are only writing it because they have to. So far, the flash-forward doesn't even have anything to do with the *actual* main character of the show.

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Do they sell it per episode on streaming services?

Birds of Prey (and the Fantabulous Emancipation of One Harley Quinn) is coming to theaters on February 7, 2020.

Long title. Kinda seems like a joke based off of one of those Harry Potter movies. I expect that we will be getting more info as filming begins, and of course a teaser at Comic Con.

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Interesting. The BBC has been kinda crazy lately, so I imagine that they're difficult to work for. I'm not sure whether or not to believe the report. It could be true, bit until there is more info, I will just consider it a rumer.

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I haven't watched the season yet, and based on what I've heard, I'm not sure that I will bother. The press for the show has been good, but a lot of the fan reaction has been the same as what you've said. They think that the new Doctor could be fine with better writing, but I've heard that the new season is just boring and preachy. Again, this is based on comments I've seen from others and not my own personal opinion, but it sounds like they replaced stories and metaphors with lessons and monologues.

I don't know if I will watch. Honestly, I wasn't a huge fan of the Capaldi era, and there doesn't seem to be a big upswing here.

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Jon Cryer has been cast as Lex Luthor. I haven't seen the show since season 2, so I barely know Lena. I know enough to remember that she isn't in her 50's, as her brother will now be. Also, Brenda Strong played his mother. She doesn't look like she could have a 50-something child.

The casting on Supergirl continues to baffle me.

So... Agents of Shield was renewed for another season, despite the current season not airing until this summer. That's weird. I know the season is probably mostly filmed at this point, but the show isn't a huge hit, and the summer slot might kill it.

The renewal cames at the same time that ABC's entertainment president announced that she is stepping down. Coincidence?

To be fair, DC has a number of shows coming. Titans was just the first, but we still have Doom Patrol, Swamp Thing, Stargirl and Metropolis coming up. Not huge names from the movies, but it's something.

I agree, Disney is great at marketing. Their marketing is better than their actual movie making... Which is kinda sad. DC probably makes more sense when you know what's actually happening, but we don't know anything at this point.

A lot of this is Warner Bros not knowing how to handle their properties. Another part is the media, not wanting to report when there is news, and constantly making up fake news to create a negative spin.

Warner Bros really should let DC be it's own company, and they should hire people to create buzz. Pop-up mini conventions where their stars appear to give updates would be cool. Drop the Snyder cut on their streaming service on Christmas Day without announcing it beforehand, or maybe just releasing hints and teases before. Stuff like that. Marvel uses sick kids to generate positive publicity for their movies (which is wrong on some level, but tye kids still get to meet superheroes, so it works out in the end).

DC really does need to step up their publicity game.

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New theory: Iris blocked Nora's abilities because Nora would age rapidly without the blocker. Nora removed the blocker on her own and began age rapidly. She is actually only 17 years old.

Otherwise, she is out-millennialing the millennials with her childish behavior.

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I prefer to think of Batman as someone who has kept himself aware of the Arrowverse and has decided that he doesn't want to be involved, due to creative differences. smile

I have always kind of imagined Gotham as taking place on Earth 2 though.

I've read that Birds of Prey is supposed to start filming in January. They cast Ewan McGregor as Black Mask, Jurnee Smollett-Bell as Black Canary, and Mary Elizabeth Winstead as Huntress... Or so I've read.

The real problem for the DCEU is that the studio doesn't make flashy announcements every time they serve lunch, like Marvel. Also, the media lives to hate the whole franchise, so they don't cover upcoming films as much. Until Zachary Levi posted pictures from the set of Shazam, I wasn't even sure it was happening.

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Maybe it'd be better with just the butter, since that's kinda like putting cream in coffee. The oil and butter together was just too much for me. It could have been the brand that I was using, or something like that. Coconut oil would probably be nicer, with the coconut flavor (still present in unrefined oil, but not in the refined oil)

In theory, I can see how it would work. Like you said, it would be used for energy pretty easily. For me, it just didn't do much. I might be a difficult case though. I'm always tired and drained. I'd love a solution that gave me tons of energy and focus.


That sounded like I'm in the market for drugs. I'm not. smile

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Grass-fed butter means that the cows were grass fed. They usually recommend Kerrygold, which is Irish, I think. It's available everywhere and it's pretty good butter (when I first tried it, I thought it tasted almost like cheese, but I could have been having an off day).

I will admit, I tried a version of the bulletproof coffee because Routh talked about it so glowingly. I didn't spend the billion dollars on the actual brand, or the expensive coffee, but I did some research and tried to figure out how much was legit science and how much was them trying to get people to buy their specific products. Then I tried it for a while...

For me, it was gross. Putting both butter and MCT oil in the coffee was disgusting. Then it became too frothy when I blended it up, so the texture was just greasy froth, and it made me gag. There's some legit science behind the oils and all of that, but I couldn't do it. And while I tried to gag it down for a while, to see if it would give me more energy over time, and make me feel like sunshine and rainbows, it didn't really do that for me.

Maybe there's something to the name brand that I couldn't get in my version. But spending that much money on coffee would probably only make me more depressed. smile

If you want to try a super basic version of it, to get the idea, just put two tablespoons of Kerrygold butter and a couple tablespoons of unrefined coconut oil in your coffee, and blend it all together. The coconut oil isn't quite the same as pure MCT oil, but it's along the same lines.



Now I feel bad for not being able to watch Legends. Despite not liking Superman Returns, I have always gotten the impression that Routh was a good guy and there was no reason for him to not have more success (except he was tied to a horrible movie, which seems to have killed a few careers, especially since the director and one of the stars are tied to some gross sexual crime stuff). I just feel like Routh has been really let down by the writing. He came in on a weak season of Arrow, and then things got even worse with Legends. It's not his fault at all. Just like it's not Caity Lotz's fault that they ruined Sara.

As TF pointed out, Legends doesn't seem like a DC show at all. As I've said before, I get the impression that the Arrowverse writers, for the most part, have no interest in the source material, iconic characters or comic book history. Legends is the worst offender with that, aside from a few times when Arrow writers basically insulted any comic book fans who wanted to see more Green Arrow influence on Arrow.

It's frustrating when there are elements of a project that I really want to enjoy and support, but other elements that make it impossible.

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This conversation has taken a weird turn.

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The CW needs to stop rebooting shows.

I'm not sure that The 4400 needs a reboot. Networks do similar shows all the time, and they really never work out.

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Hey, if they move Black Siren to Legends, there will be nothing left for me to be entertained by on Arrow. I could write numerous fanfic stories about the tiny nose ring that she feels a need to wear whenever she goes all Siren-y this season.

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That would explain a lot. I figured that they were going for a 1980s sci-fi/horror movie vibe, but it just looked bad. It was never even a good idea in the 80s.

The Halloween episode was pretty fun, and reminded me why I still watch this show. The arc episodes are a chore to get through, but the monster of the week episodes are great.

It also looked better than other episodes lately. I don't understand why some episodes of Supernatural look and sound like they were filmed by a soap opera crew, on someone's iPhone (usually the arc/mythology episodes), and other episodes look like legit tv show episodes that people care about. Do they alternate crews or something?

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Wait... I didn't have to watch season 5 in order to get my B5 street creds? Why didn't I know this before?!

I think that the show was a part of sci-fi television's evolution for sure. It, along with DS9 and The X-Files, showed that the longer arcs could succeed, and science fiction tv didn't need to be a shallow way to pass a lazy Saturday afternoon.

That said, I don't think that I would have considered the show great, even back in that time. While a lot of the show's ideas were interesting, the execution of those ideas was often sloppy. This isn't something that can be blamed on budgets or limitations of technology. It was about the decisions being made. Some of the show's huge weaknesses can he chalked up to uncertainty regarding its renewal. But many smaller cracks in the overall structure were just bad construction.

No show is perfect. Ultimately, it comes down to personal tastes and whether or not the good outweighs the bad. I don't feel like I wasted my time watching the show, but I don't think that I would feel a need to recommend the show to others, the way I would with shows that really inspire me or get me excited.

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Maybe I'm just forgetting the backdoor pilot episode, but I have no memory of them being particularly flirty or sexual. Certainly not in any sort of real love. To me, it seemed like every time they referenced what happened in that episode, it was like a weird parallel universe version of what I saw.

I might not have been paying attention during that episode. Like I said, the Dabb era hasn't been drawing my attention as much.

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I'm a bit behind on Supernatural. Just watched episode 3 of this season, and I'm confused. First of all, they played Kaia as being more important than she was. The emotion they expressed wasn't warranted for a one-off guest star.

They played Claire's connection to her as being something that really didn't come across at the time at all. And... Did they just gay up Claire in an episode where she didn't even appear?

It's like they kept referencing a totally different show than what I was watching last year.


Anyway, it took me a while to watch this episode and I realized that the excitement just wasn't there. I don't think the Dabb era is working for me. It feels more like Once Upon a Time than Supernatural at times.

I'll still watch, but I'm interested in seeing what the next show runner can do.

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After 20+ years, I finally watched Babylon 5. Started it earlier in the summer and just finished it yesterday. I wanted to know where I stood with the whole DS9/B5 debate, even though I'm not a JMS fan at all.


My thoughts:

The whole idea that DS9 ripped anything off is BS. The shows have some vague similarities, but nothing that looks as though anyone from DS9 had access to a B5 show bible and copied stuff. Some of the similarities wouldn't have even been in the early plans for B5 because they came about after major cast shakeups and changes in direction.

I think this scandal was probably great publicity for JMS and his show, so he ran with it. Ultimately, there isn't anything there.

The show itself was okay. Not great, not horrible. The writing could have benefitted from some more polishing most of the time. It wasn't horrible, but it didn't change my world at all. Season 1 was boring. Seasons 2 and 3 were the best. Season 4 was kind of a mess, and kept resolving the series prematurely (I understand why, but I'm just judging what's on screen now). Season 5 was a waste of my time, and the actual series finale (filmed a year before) felt like it could have remained a "lost episode" without much harm. The second to last episode actually felt more like the end (as did a few episodes in season 4, for that matter)

Overall, B5 is okay. I still like DS9 better, but that's to be expected, since I've been a DS9 fan for decades. But I just liked the vibe of DS9 more. I liked the cast and the interactions more. I liked the arcs more. But I acknowledge that DS9 had a huge Star Trek foundation to work with, and more money, etc. It had advantages going in.

I don't think it really has to be as either/or as fans have made this debate over the years. They're different shows. Nobody stole anything. There's no need for animosity of any kind. JMS is still not my favorite person or my favorite writer. I think he's highly overrated, but there's really not much to get worked up about here.

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Just to make it clear, I didn't mean for that question to come across as snide in any way. I just want to make sure that I know what you're referring to before I respond. If there's some other example that I should be commenting on, I'd have to look into it before I could form an opinion either way.

Okay, I finally finished season 3 of Daredevil. I have to say, I was impressed with this show. If it is cancelled (which is probably likely, just because of the Disney situation), I will be disappointed. The show is so well written, produced, acted and even scored. It's the best of the superhero shows on TV, and the best of the Marvel universe as a whole.

While watching the show, I couldn't help but compare it to the Arrowverse in my head. The way Daredevil handled situations throughout the situation showed that they put story above politics. They cared about characters more than they cared about the writers. I hate selfish writing, and Daredevil avoided that, while Arrow seems to hit every rock on their way down the hill. (I don't think that metaphor worked as well in writing as it did in my head)


Some examples:

This season dealt with storylines that featured FBI corruption, media manipulation/fake news, political campaigns and even their normal religious themes. Throughout the season, they put their story above trying to comment on real world issues. In doing so, they could explore real world issues without the "uncanny valley" effect that so many shows struggle with today, because they're so concerned with making real-world points.

Yes, I hijacked the uncanny valley thing and used it wrong. I don't care. The point is still valid.

By *not* trying to comment on our real world issues withing their fantastical superhero universe, they were actually able to produce a story that felt more true and real, and explored themes in a way that didn't alienate the audience.


In the episode which flashed back to Karen's past, we saw Karen when she was a deeply troubled, scarred, broken young woman. They didn't do this by changing the color of her hair or making her goth (Felicity). They did this through... character. That's it. And while the story could have easily been about three men in her life who were trying to control her and make decisions for her, they didn't choose that path. They chose a path where yeah, those guys wanted different things for her, but she was also messed up and she was also responsible for her own mistakes. By not trying to make her a feminist icon, they made her a stronger character. She holds her own on the show, without it being about wokeness points.

With Arrow, look at how they handled Felicity's flashback, or her time in witness protection. It's about the hair and clothes. It's a very shallow way to build that story or sell that character. Why was Felicity's hair pink? It wasn't a disguise, but it also doesn't look to be a fashion choice, because she abandoned it ASAP. So really, it was just about the writer (or whoever) sitting there, trying to think of what Felicity would be wearing or how her hair would look, and they didn't really try to sell the situation or the character.

Karen was different in the past, but she wasn't just different for the sake of being different. She was a point along the way for *our* Karen.

Some of Daredevil's quality can be chalked up to more money. More extras. Better scoring. More locations. All of that is true, but even the scenes where two characters were talking on a regular set, the whole thing just felt more grounded and "real", even with the crazy superhero stuff happening.


It just makes so much difference when the people making a show actually care about the story. On Arrow, I feel like the writers are writing a superhero show in spite of what they actually want to be writing about. On Daredevil, I feel like the writers are exploring humanity through this comic book lens.


Anyway... I liked it.

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Nora told Team Flash that Green Arrow couldn't defeat Cicada, so they decided not to go to Green Arrow. There was no discussion about him being in prison.

I think Nora is 25 years old-ish, from 30 years in the future, but she acts like she's 16. It's all messed up.

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Team Flash didn't even seem to know that Oliver is in prison. They were wondering about getting his help with Cicada earlier this season.

I believe that Nora is from 30 years in the future, while William is 20. So it doesn't appear to be any sort of joint story.

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With this week's Flash episode, I am starting to wonder what the deal is with stories being mirrored on The Flash and Arrow. Is it deliberate for some reason? But more importantly, is there a point in watching both shows if they keep doing the same things?

In the past year, we had Barry and Iris get married, only to have Oliver and Felicity highjack their wedding and get married themselves. We had both Barry and Oliver sent to prison. We have both of their adult children from the future (and I have to think that if grown William doesn't have some relevance to the current story, it's a HUGE waste of air time). Both of those adult kids are gay (or bi).

So is there some benefit to mirroring stories that I don't see? Do the writers just lack communication between shows and just happen to keep sharing plot points? Does sharing storylines remove the need to watch both shows?

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I feel that I should clarify: I don't care much if a Nazi gets punched.

My issue is that the far left has decided to deem *everyone* who disagrees with them a "Nazi", and then they ran with the "punch a Nazi" catchphrase, which means that they're encouraging people to punch anyone who doesn't agree with them. This is wrong on many levels, and has resulted in severe violence against people in real life. So, to see superhero characters use that call to violence on a fantasy superhero series did not make me happy.

Actual Nazis are a thing. They are evil, and putting the "Nazi" label on people who are not actually Nazis not only puts the safety and lives of those people in danger, but it belittles the horrors inflicted upon the world by actual Nazis.


It disturbs me how many people are okay with seeing people being beaten in the streets, simply because those people have different political beliefs (not Nazi beliefs, mind you. Just different beliefs). That is a very dark path to go down.

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I'll probably just let you guys enjoy it. If I watch, I'm bound to get frustrated and tear into it. More fun if I don't.


Turns out, Jesse L Martin suffered a back injury over the hiatus. He will be taking time off to recover at some point. I guess they thought it'd be too much of a downer to have a new father attacked and put into a coma or anything like that. But with Cecile a series regular now, they probably also can't have him take his family into hiding.

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Cool. Glad to hear that they're trying to develop the character that you can sympathize with. I'm almost tempted to check it out for myself, but... Nah. smile

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Are you talking specifically about the Access Hollywood recording?

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See, I disagree. This is part of why I stopped watching the show. It didn't explore political issues in a thoughtful and interesting way. It preached one-sided opinions and absolutely demonized anyone who didn't fall into those same beliefs.

If the show truly was using this story to talk about our real world immigration issues (and again, I am only basing my comments on what's been discussed here, so I could be off the mark), the vast majority of people wouldn't be anti-alien, but most would still prefer some sort of process for alien immigrants coming in, rather than just allowing anyone and everyone. In real life, we're not talking about people who are pro-immigrant and anti-immigrant. That's not the discussion being had at all (aside from some really radical types, I suppose). So for the show to say that everyone good is 100% "open borders" and anyone else is open to the idea of killing alien children, because they're angry and scared and that makes them bad people... That sort of storytelling is reckless and potentially dangerous. (an issue we discussed last year, with a specific line of dialogue used in the crossover)

It'd be one thing if they were just making up fun stories, with comic book villains that don't really have to be super deep. But to project real world issues onto the story and then turn *everyone* who isn't in line with one viewpoint into the season's villain is just... it's bad writing. It's shallow, and shows a complete lack of thought. The real world is nuanced and these issues are heavily debated for a reason.


This is all completely unfounded opinions, based on second-hand tellings of the actual story. So I can't really judge. This is just an issue that plagued Supergirl from the start, and why I had to stop watching. The lack of care or thought just turned me off.

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Question: are there any characters who oppose "open borders" on the show, who don't turn into hateful, angry murderers? Maybe characters who just want reasonable alien immigration policies enforced, without actually hating aliens?

Since I don't watch the show, I really don't have any opinions of the story. I'm just wondering what the spectrum of beliefs looks like with the central characters.