Topic: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Maybe we never archived our last discussion.

I've only seen the premiere of season 2 of Gotham (subtitled Rise of the Villains).  The show is definitely becoming Batman without Batman as opposed to a prequel.  Penguin is already (the main?) boss in the Gotham mob.  Two-Face, Riddler, Joker, Zsasz, Catwoman are just younger versions of their eventual-villain characters (with Riddler, Two-Face, and Zsasz we're just talking about slightly younger).  We're basically already ready for Batman to show up, which makes the Bruce story seem slower than usual.

It's a fun show to watch, but I think it's so far from what I was expecting/hoping it to be.  Would a fairly-standard police procedural set in Gotham just not work?  Young veteran of the police force Gordon working with younger Harvey Bullock who dabbles in the occasional fit of corruption trying to take down the traditional mob in Gotham.  The only villain character around is Cobblepot, who is young and reckless.  His story has been good, but it needs to have been slower.

The way I see it, Bruce is in the first episode as a catalyst but doesn't show up for years.  Every season takes place over the course of a year or two, with Gordon taking down crime and corruption.  As soon as he takes one guy down (Maroni), another is shown to be pulling his strings (Falcone).  When he gets to Falcone, corruption in his own precinct prevents Gordon from doing his job.  Season 3 is Jim fighting the police themselves as Falcone gets desperate.  With Gordon/Dent decimating his ranks, he starts turning to lunatics as his soldiers.  And those soldiers become lieutenants. 

Meanwhile, Gordon doesn't notice any of this.  By season 4, he's risen to almost-commissioner, he's cleaned up the department, and he's ready to go after Falcone.  He finally gets his man by the end, and there's a big celebration.  He's taken down the mob in Gotham.

But then he looks around.  The new head of the Falcone family is that weird-looking guy named Penguin (maybe an old CI of his - that angle is interesting).  Around the city, there are crimes attributed to guys named Riddler and Freeze and Scarecrow.  In cleaning up Gotham, he's exposed a layer of madness that no one knew was there. 

Season 5 either introduces a 21-22 year-old Bruce Wayne ready to fight this maddening city, has Gordon investigating a masked vigilante (that ends up being a never-seen Bruce), or ends with Gordon wondering whether or not taking down Falcone was worth it.

To me, it'd be procedural.  Gordon takes down random criminals, all tied to Maroni.  And then Falcone.  To get the crime-side of things, Penguin slowly rises up the ranks, learning things with Gordon about how deep crime goes.  And while Gordon is too focused to really notice, the weekly crimes start becoming a bit more elaborate.  Laughing gas.  Fear toxin.  Booby traps.  Henchmen in costumes.  Fewer men Gordon catches are going to jail - more are going to Arkham.

The main characters would be Gordon and Penguin.  The side characters like Riddler/Dent/Catwoman would show up as one-off/recurring characters that serve a logical purpose (criminal informants, allies to Penguin or Gordon, one-off criminals).  Bruce doesn't appear at all after the Pilot until he's grown or already Batman (although Alfred could show up every once in a while too).

The main character in my Gotham would be the city.  It's sick from crime, but the sickness is covering up the insanity that's underneath.  And as Gordon cures the city of crime, he exposes the insanity.  Season one would be Law and Order: Gotham.  Season 3 would be closer to season one of our version of Gotham.  It wouldn't be until season 5 that we'd even get close to where we are in "Rise of the Villains"

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I am just taking the show as it comes, trying not to think too hard about what needs to happen in order to line up with what I know about Batman. Granted, I sometimes theorize about why Jim would name his daughter after a psycho ex, but I try not to get too caught up in it.

For what it is, I think the show is going pretty well. Jerome is a great villain (though I hesitate to call him Joker, because they could pull that rug out from under us at any moment. Right now, he is just a crazy kid). Barbara is more interesting as a villain. Jim's mission is interesting to watch.

So far, I don't have any real complaints. I even kinda like the idea that Batman is the product of the city, rather than the usual idea that Batman brings out the crazies himself.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah.  I think the show is basically supposed to be one big tease (as a prequel tends to be) and so it's hard not to look forward and think about how this show is supposed to be built. 

As it is, it's still a good show.  I agree with your comments - Barbara is much better as a villain than as a nagging fiance.  Jerome is fun but almost has to be Joker, right?  Might be too much for it to be a curve ball to pull that rug out.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

So, I guess Jerome wasn't the Joker... Unless they're playing the Joker as an idea or a spirit rather than one character. Is he one person, or is he many people?

Yeah, I guess Jerome just wasn't the Joker :-)

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah I was relieved to see that, but the end montage sorta spoiled it for me.  I read in a review that said that, no matter what, the Joker ends up being a Jerome copycat more than an original character.  Or, in a way, a coincidence.  I've always sorta liked the "Killing Joke" version of Joker who is driven to madness by "one bad day."  Any version of Joker who's already crazy, or worse, inspired by someone else - is just sorta weak to me.

But they were true to their word, and I have to give that to them.

By the way, whatever happened to the Ivy character?  She was on all the promotional materials, played a big part in the pilot, randomly showed up again in season one, and she hasn't been seen/mentioned since.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I don't think that it necessarily takes away from the Joker story. He has always had many backstories and has always been a sort of demon that haunts the city. This story just plays a different version of that concept. The Joker can't make sense, so telling a sensible backstory here would probably feel wrong.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah it just sorta feels false that there was another Joker-like villain before the Joker, who feels genuinely unique.  I think it was pretty cool for Jerome to be on the show, and I thought the actor was *spectacular*.  But wouldn't Gordon (and to a lesser extent, Bruce) get Jerome flashbacks when the Joker shows up?  Like "wow, another Jerome!" instead of "holy crap, what is that?"

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I don't like how they have gone off the comics with Barbara's character. Looks like she will not be the wife of Jim Gordon afterall. She has embraced her "dark side" and will probably come to a violent end before the show is done. 
I do like the addition of Jessica Lucas on the cast as Gavalan's sidekick and sister.  She is so pretty and smoking hot.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

If I remember correctly, Jim's wife had a number of backstories in the comics, depending on who was writing it and what the era was. If that's true, I'm not sure that there would be a point in trying to stick to comic book canon. She and Jim did have a villain son, so this is probably a take on that.

I am curious to see how Jim comes to have a daughter named Barbara though.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

So I guess my big question now is: how does Gordon bounce back from the mid-season finale?  I'm still surprised at the choice the writers had him make.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I had to look up what even happened.

I am excited to see what they do with Mr. Freeze, though.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

It will be interesting to see what happens. I like that they're not afraid to take the characters and stories to some dark places. Any show about Gotham needs that. I guess it's TV, so things can eventually just fade into the past. But it is still a pretty big moment.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah, they could fade it.  Definitely right about them having to go to some dark places by the nature of the show.  For Gordon, that may - may- be about as dark as he can get.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

So apparently the second half of season two is subtitled "Wrath of the Villains" - answering my question of whether or not "Rise of the Villains" was the official subtitle of the show or not.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Okay so the show continues to just be completely impatient.  I like how Bruce is hitting the streets and learning about crime.  It's way too early for it, but if Bruce is going to be a major character on this show....fine.  But now Edward is basically already the Riddler.  Penguin is Penguin.  Mr. Freeze is Mr. Freeze.  And Batman is still.....what....10 years away?  Gotham is basically saying that Batman is going to start fighting villains that have already been active for 10 years?

The show is fun.  I get it.  But if they wanted to go this route (and there's no evidence to say this wasn't the plan from the beginning), it needed to be set when Bruce is 18. 

At this rate, Bruce showing up as Batman is going to barely going to be news.  "Hey look, another costumed crazy.  This one is good, huh?  Well, we'll see.  Gotham has been doing this a long time."

And I don't see how Gordon gets passed any of this murder stuff.  I assume Galavan will show up "alive" so there's no way he can be guilty of murder.  But...still....Gordon seems as guilty as any cop in Gotham.  Dirtier than Harvey, it seems.  I get that they want Gordon to be a conflicted character, but he's been a bit darker than I think most of us expected.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I wonder if they will be doing a flash-forward at some point.

I don't mind how it's playing out. People always ask if the villains created Batman or if Batman created the villains. Now we know. And I don't necessarily dislike that the big crime lords during the Batman years are getting their start now. It takes time to get there. And then you have to consider that Penguin and Riddler both more or less retire from their crime careers during Batman's time.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I continue to be impressed with Gotham. They do a great job of making this feel like the Gotham City that I grew up with. The city that will need Batman. And Bruce is developing nicely.

I've come to realize that they could easily cross over with The Flash, since Earth-2 is very similar to the world of Gotham.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Can I just say that it is super annoying that people are still complaining about Batman not being on the show? It is the end of season 2 and Bruce is a teenager. Batman is not going to be on the show. Give it up! This isn't a Batman story! How do people not get this after two full seasons?!

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I still get annoyed that Bruce is on the show.  I don't think Bruce should be doing any of this stuff now.  He should be off trying to live a normal life.  He needs to decide all this stuff later. 

At this rate, he'll have zero education and will be Batman by the time he's 16.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I'm happy with what they're doing with Bruce on the show. They're allowing him to explore those parts of his personality that would just be in him naturally, and would drive him to become Batman. They're making progress toward his becoming Batman, but they're not just jumping to the end of that story the way most TV shows would do. I like that they're allowing Bruce to be a kid on the show. Where he is now explains why he could rationalize having teenagers as sidekicks later on (though I'd still say that they should be toward the older side of their teenage years).

I love that the series isn't being pressured to become a Batman series. They're letting the city speak for itself, and all of the people who inhabit it are really interesting.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah but where does the show take him after he's solved his parents' murder?  Does he just go back to school?  My problem is what's going to happen between what happens now and what happens when he actually starts being Batman.  Because, from my understanding, these years are supposed to be boring for Bruce.  He's supposed to hang out with rich kids and go to rich schools and realize how much he hates that stuff.  How little all that matters. 

Right now, I don't know how he ever gets back to a normal life.  He's basically already on the road to being Batman, but he's too young to do anything about it.  And he will be for years. So it's just kinda awkward to have him already abandoning school, already living among criminals, already being Young Batman.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

He's not really young Batman yet. Not even close. He is learning how to be a detective, which is something that comes naturally to him. He asks questions and needs answers. He refuses to give up. That's Bruce. Batman is something else.

He has missed some school, but for most of the series, he has lived among the rich kids and he's been bored with them. He finds that world frustrating and boring, but it's something that he has to deal with. There is a lot of ground to cover between now and his leaving to be properly trained. He is emotional and reckless, like most teenagers. That could lead him into a lot of trouble that he isn't capable of fighting. This will eventually be his reason for leaving, but not for a while. Right now, he is more concerned with solving his parents' murder and saving their legacy. That is an arc that will take a long time to be resolved.

I really don't know what season 7 of this show looks like for Bruce. Will they flash forward at some point? A show called "Gotham" can't really explore Bruce's training elsewhere in the world, so I don't know. But right now, he's in a good place. Right now, they're on track with him. That could very well change by season 5, but that's something that we'll have to worry about later. For the moment, the show is very strong.

The feel of this show is probably more along the lines of what Arrow should have been (but with less cops and more vigilante heroes). They take this show seriously. They pay attention to characters and keep their eye on where they're heading. It's very comic-booky, but not cartoonish. I like it a lot.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Gotham is such a bizarre show.  I mean, they had a character die via point-blank rocket launcher in the last episode.  It's definitely found it's tone - which is a bizarre mix of realism and comic book feel.  And I do love the costuming and feel of the show, where you aren't really sure which era it takes place in.  Do they have cell phones.

I do have another complaint - just like with the future Joker getting his inspiration from "Jerome" - is it bizarre that Bruce is inspired by Theo Galavan / Azrael?  It just seems a bit cheap if these two iconic characters are basically copying someone they saw when they were children.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

It is a pretty cool show. I was thinking about what Smallville would have been like if they could have made the show about Bruce Wayne instead. While Gotham perfectly sets the tone, I think that the Smallville version would have been about teenage love and a much lighter tone. Gotham has such great character work. Penguin's work in the last couple of episodes has been really cool. Having him feed those two snobby kids to their mother was disturbing and gross, but hilarious at the same time. The rocket launcher was also really inspired. Agents of SHIELD used a rocket launcher last week too, and it kinda fizzled as a plot point. This was great.

I love how the show is twisted, but just grounded enough to feel real-ish. I like the fact that it could take place in a few different eras (they do have cell phones, I think... but flip phones). Batman TAS was like that too. I still say that this could be Earth-2 from The Flash, just because it's fun in my head.

I don't really have a problem with Bruce getting that spark of an idea from Azrael. The comic established that Azrael is something that is passed down from person to person, so I don't mind the character appearing. But he was a villain, so it isn't just a proto-Batman. I was thinking that they could actually go down that road with something like Grey Ghost from the animated series (who was a TV character, I know, but they could still use him). I don't mind Bruce picking up the ingredients for Batman here and there, as long as he doesn't make the Batman soup until it's the right time.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah I know he's inspired by Zorro and Grey Ghost type stuff.  Even Clark was inspired by Warrior Angel in Smallville.

But my issue with both the Jerome and the Azrael stuff is that it wasn't so much "inspiration" as it was "mostly copying."  If Bruce had heard "Azrael was fast and sleek and used the shadows to his advantage" and had to use his imagination, I think that could've worked.  But to have Azrael basically be Batman fighting against those cops and for Bruce to actually see it, I feel like Bruce would be thinking "man, I'm just like Azrael" instead of being his own thing.  Cops that see Batman for the first time that also faced Azrael would think Batman was an Azrael copycat.  Just like Joker would basically be a Jerome copycat to anyone who saw his televised performance.

But those are just minor problems. With Flash and Arrow sorta lagging, Gotham might be the best comic TV show on right now.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I always saw Joker as sort of an entity in a way. Like in The Dark Knight, he wasn't any one thing. He kept making up new backstories. He was just this strange force of chaos and evil that made him more twisted and scary. So in that sense, I don't mind Jerome (who could come back from the dead, I suppose, right? Maybe deformed and twisted), since he would be a part of that same force of nature.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

So with Hugo Strange bringing the dead back as super villains, I watched the previews after this week's episode (a rarity for me) and I see that with two episodes left, they are bringing Fish Mooney (Jada Pinkett Smith) back to life. I wonder how that's gonna turn out.

I did like the cliffhanger that the episode ended on with Firefly and Serena.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I also thought it was cool that they gave us a glimpse of Killer Croc.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

So what are you feelings about the direction of the show? It seems to have lapsed into the realm of Sci Fi with the "monsters" that Hugo Strange is creating.
With the technology that he has  it is starting to look  like Joker will be the original character that we saw die off. I mean any thing is possible now.
Will Jim end up with Barbara or the ME who is carrying his child? Will she return?

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

So they're recasting Poison Ivy with a sexy young actress - now 19 years old instead of the 12(?) year old she was before.

The show has done a decent job of planning and foreshadowing, but their characterization of Poison Ivy has been all over the place.  She was really important in the Pilot, showed up a few times, completely disappeared, and now she's jumping a few years in age so they can hire another hot young actress.  Oh well.

http://www.superherohype.com/news/37976 … y#/slide/1

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I know they wanted the advertising hook of it being a prequel, but they should have really just done Gotham Central.  They're using Batman villains anyway, and Central was designed to not use Batman directly.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Well, they wanted Young Batman.  The problem is that they didn't seemingly want any of his villains to be young.  Outside of Penguin, I sorta assumed that all Batman's villains were his contemporaries.  In this series, it'll basically only be Catwoman.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Penguin should be older. Riddler can be a decade older without issue. Mr. Freeze should probably be older too. Joker isn't around really, but Jerome wasn't much older than Bruce. A lot of the villains aren't really the comic book versions anyway (Firefly).

I think Batman is more of a hangup than he should be with the audience. This isn't the story we know, it is an alternate reality for those characters. For what it is, it is really good.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

My problem is how the show is sorta changing a fundamental aspect of the Batman character.  There's a thought that runs in stories like Batman Begins and Year One that Batman is sorta responsible for the craziness in Gotham.  That he shows up in this garish outfit, and that is what sets Gotham on the path to craziness.  That if Bruce had never shown up back in Gotham, that his villains wouldn't exist.

That Batman, more than anything else, created his own villains.  Gotham (the show) implies that Gotham was already crazy and that many of its villains were already the way they were.  And that Batman is a reaction to Gotham and not the other way around.

And while it's not a terrible change, I think it's a less-interesting one.  The idea that Batman might not actually be good for Gotham - that he might create as many villains as he puts down, just by existing in the city.  The idea that, if he quit, maybe the city would go back to "normal."  That's a pretty cool concept, and it's something that a lot of Batman stories sorta leave ambiguous.

Gotham answers the question pretty clearly - Gotham goes crazy with big colorful villains way before Bruce ever gets on the scene.  Even if Bruce waits another 6-10 years to show up as Batman, he's absolutely reacting to something that had been going on in the city for years.  In fact, almost none of Batman's villains would've been a reaction to Batman.  Even Joker would've simply been a reaction to Jerome.

It's definitely an alternate reality.  I'm just worried it's a less interesting reality.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I agree, I wish Gotham would have just had other gangsters and villains on the show instead of actually introducing us to our favorites. But then it would not have been "Gotham".....

that being said, I thought the season was interesting as a whole but I did not know what the hell was going on in that finale.
Are we going to see Barbara and Jim finally end up as a loving couple?
What of the ME who is carrying his child?

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I think it could've been about Penguin's rise and crazy sort of things happening.  That there was a level of insanity on the brink of erupting, and that Batman was the catalyst for things to change.  I was cool with the beginning - Nygma is in the police force but going a little nutty.  Penguin as a foot soldier with ambition.  Selina and Ivy as kids.

But they got impatient.  Added Harvey Dent and Mr. Freeze and pseudo-Joker and a bunch of others.  So it's basically Batman without Batman.  Which is fine, except for the reasons I said.

For the record, I still like the show a lot.  I just think they could've done it better.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I get that point of view, but I think we've seen it and explored it enough by this point. There isn't much left to ponder when it comes to the question of whether Batman is responsible for the craziness of Gotham. But there is something interesting about exploring the idea of the city itself being a living creature that drives people into darkness.

I just don't see why we always need to be bogged down by the way things "should" be done, based on how they've been done before. Comic books get to play with these ideas all the time, creating new twists on the reality within that world. Why shouldn't TV shows and movies do the same thing? I like watching the show and getting a hint of what's to come, just based on the name of a character. But at the same time, I like that I don't really know how this is going to play out. Bruce will become Batman, but when and how? Penguin and Riddler have a long road ahead of them... Both of them go through their wacky criminal careers and come out the other side (more or less) in the comics, while other Batman villains are still starting out.

I was shocked by what they did with Mr. Freeze and his wife, and the fact that it didn't line up with the comics did cross my mind. But that doesn't make it a bad thing.

In the comics (to the best of my knowledge), Jim Gordon and Leslie Thompkins never got involved or had a kid together.  That doesn't make the TV show wrong or bad. It's just one of man, many interpretations of the material. Saying that the writers got impatient implies that there is a more proper way to tell this story, and that it can't just be what it is. I disagree with that.

How many of the comic books shows really follow the comic book storylines?


If at the end of the day the story that's told on the show is bad, that will be a perfectly fine opinion to have. It's fine to discuss how things could have been handled differently. But I don't think we can ding a show for not being something that it's not trying to be. The show is about Gotham. It's not a Batman origin story.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I respect that.  And I really do like the show.  I just would've done things a bit differently if I were in charge smile

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

This is why it's dangerous to have a writer's brain.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

A lot of people are going crazy because Penguin seems to be gay this season.  I don't see a) how that's a problem or b) how they didn't see this coming.

41 (edited by KerrAvon 2016-11-25 01:59:59)

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

There are shows that have a plan, or an arc and they follow it to the letter (Babylon 5) then we have shows where the writers and the suits seem to make it up as they go (Lost) 
This new season of Gotham falls in the latter category...

I have no idea what the hell is going on or the reason for the madness. Has the show "jumped" ? or Come off the Rails?  They just forgot all about Fish Mooney and Hugo Strange. All the monsters, and contaminated blood...WTF?

As for Penguin, I have no problem with his sexual orientation but I just don't get why they went thru all that trouble to introduce E Nigna's new love interest then just kill her off so quickly. I would have wanted to see more of the two and their relationship. Like I said, making it up as they go along....

Erin Richards is too talented an actress to be given such little screen time
Jessica Lucas is just too hot to have her scenes cut drastically

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

However they're writing it, I'm liking it. The great thing about Gotham is that they took away the character that always grabs the spotlight. Without Batman, all of these other great characters get to shine. Even Bruce, who will eventually be consumed by Batman, is just Bruce here. I don't see it as a prequel or anything like that. I'm just viewing it as what it is, which is a great, insane series with cool characters doing insane things.

Penguin... I don't care if he's gay. I'd be more surprised if any of these characters were mentally capable of caring for any other human life.

It was a weird choice to bring on Isabella, only to kill her off so quickly. It's weird, but in a way that fits there series. Still, it'd be funny if the actress pops up again, as another character. smile

43 (edited by Grizzlor 2016-11-25 23:16:19)

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I saw a little bit of Gotham during S1, fell behind, and kind of gave up.  Then I decided to binge and catch up awhile back.  I wound up really enjoying S1, and didn't really get put off by the haters who had bashed it at the time.  S2 was really good, I thought the characters and the actors were terrific.  So far S3 I've also enjoyed, particularly the growing team of Bruce and Selina.  Chiklis and Jada Pinkett have been great guests/recurring. 

Now I'm a bit biased, because I've met these actors a few times, and they were nothing but awesome in person.....Robin Lord Taylor alone keeps me watching.  The guys is both hilarious and nutso!  Corey Michael Smith is devious, one of the best Riddlers I've ever seen post-Gorshin, and Drew Powell and Sean Pertwee are great too.  Drew in particular was great, I met him at a con in NJ, and he didn't have a big line, so we traded Indy 500 memories (he's from there) for awhile.

Then there's the women!  Jessica Lucas and Erin Richards, wow, wow, wow, those two alone would make for a great series!  Erin is just plain terrific as the maniac Barbara Kean. 

Because they shoot in New York, I feel this show can incorporate so many of the local character and stage actors, many with a substantial resume, like Peter Scolari, Richard Kind, John Doman, David Zayas, BD Wong, and more.  Then to spring in with Paul Reubens and Melinda Clarke, also great.

I don't know where the show goes from here, in terms of its production future.  The ratings are not exactly great.  I hope it keeps going.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I'm not usually a fan of using stage acting for film or television. It's a whole different animal. But I think that with Gotham, every character is so grand that mixing a little of that stage acting into the show has helped. Honestly, I'm not a big Fish Mooney fan. I am glad that she hasn't been around too much. But yeah, I really enjoy everyone else a lot. Great cast.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I have no idea wth is up with Gotham. I mean first we had to endure that nonsense with Hugo Strange and his monsters now dead being brought back to life; cutting off faces, gratuitous violence to the extreme... WHERE THE HELL ARE STRANGE AND FISH?  .I mean has the show finally jumped or flown off the rails?

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I don't understand the Jerome stuff.  I thought his story ended on a cool note.  If he'd inspired someone who inspired someone who inspired the Joker that might be fine....but is this guy the Joker or not?

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

They've been jumping around pretty badly, yes.  There doesn't seem to be a great arc to follow either, just characters being angry with each other.  Strange.  Jessica Lucas/Erin Richards continue to have my attention though!

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

And FOX isn't doing the show any favors.  They took almost two months off between episodes 11 and 12, and after only being back three episodes, they're going to be off almost *three more* months.

FOX's primetime lineup is bizarre.  Shows are going off the air for months so that entire shows can be shown in between the gaps.  Why not just run shows continuously and uninterrupted?  It doesn't seem to be affecting ratings (the show has been remarkably consistent this year, while down around a million viewers from season two), but it just seems like a really confusing strategy.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Twenty years later, we're all still trying to figure out why FOX does the things they do. The world may never know.

Maybe the show is difficult to produce and they need a break to catch up? I don't know. But I still think the show is going strong. I love the characters and the world they've built for the series. Great cast too.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah the show goes dark again after tonight.  Something I just found out from a tweet by one of the actors!