• Registered: 2015-06-21
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

We'll have to disagree on the quality of these fan productions, but the issue wasn't that the fan stuff endangered their new property; it was the fan stuff was being used to make money with absolutely no licensing agreement whatsoever. And they have every right to take issue with 1.1 million dollars being used to make a STAR TREK fan film without authorization, the same way you probably would not tolerate strangers using your house as a brewery without your permission and compensation. We can debate whether Paramount and CBS are being extreme, but they have every right to permit some fan films or no fan films. STAR TREK is their house.

**

Hmm. One iffy thing regarding SLIDERS REBORN, now that I think on it -- I offered SLIDERS fanfic genius Nigel Mitchell money for his services on the project. Not being a history buff or a world-builder, I asked Nigel to take my one-sentence concepts and give me an alt-history as well as visual details of daily life to work into the scripts.

I wanted to pay him for each Earth, but Nigel declined and pointed me to his Amazon page, where I bought every novel he's published and will buy every novel he ever releases, partially because I want to read them and partially to pay him something.

I wonder what kind of trouble we'd have been in if I'd paid Nigel about $500 for what I imagine would have been a couple hours of writing bullet points of whatever came to mind for the four Earths. I guess I could have written it off as a one-time gift? And what about the hotel room I rented? The hotel made money off me doing SLIDERS REBORN. But I guess they made money off me wanting a room as opposed SLIDERS REBORN.

I imagine that NBCUniversal wouldn't see the point of litigating over a matter of $680, but crowdsourcing over a million dollars raises all sorts of alerts and red flags.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

They could only really get upset about the stuff that they own. The hotel wasn't charging for anything for Sliders. They were charging you for space, which had nothing to do with Sliders. And as for world building... nope. They wouldn't own those worlds either. They would own the Sliders brand and the characters, but you own all of the original material, including worlds, dialogue, etc. You could sue them if they use that stuff.

I have to say, I tried watching Renegades last night and while I think it's impressive in terms of "fans goofing around and making a movie", I wasn't impressed by the overall quality of it as a film. In fact, I had to turn it off. Here's the thing. With fanfic, I would have to believe that a story takes place in that world in order to be impressed. The writing would have to look and feel like the official work of the Star Trek writers. Of course, there are shipper fics and other niche fanfics which are completely off the rails, but I've never been a fan of those.

So when it comes to a fan film, I have to have the same standard. It's either one of the goofy niche projects that we're not even supposed to take seriously, or it's supposed to look and feel like a plausible addition to that universe. This is a massive challenge, but it's one that they took on. And I just didn't feel it.


I mean, it's great in terms of getting fans together and making a fan film. But that's not what this was supposed to be. This movie had a significant budget and "real" actors.

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
  • Posts: 297

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Well it wasn't proven whether the Axanar guy really paid himself a salary or what-not.  However, that production clearly went off the rails, both by raising a LOT of money via Kickstarter, and essentially hiring people left and right.  I think that stuff gets very murky, and should be curtailed.  So I'm with CBS in the spirit of their rules.  However, they went way too far.  The time-limits, preventing past Trek employees from working, things like that, not good.  You don't see Star Wars (arguably a far more active property) imposing these restrictions.  Then again, I suppose if Billy Dee Williams were to appear in one of them, Disney might get antsy.  That being said, the Star Wars universe is once again alive.  The Trek universe we knew (TOS, TNG, DS9, VOY, ENT) is dead.  I'm not sure what Fuller has in mind, but I seriously would be shocked if he went back to the well for actors from those shows.

  • Registered: 2015-06-21
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

How is it in any way not clear that the Axanar guy really paid himself a salary? It's in his FAQ on his own website. http://www.axanarproductions.com/captai … -7th-2016/

I think it is unbelievable how people keep claiming the issue is muddy or unclear when the information is plain as day on Axanar's own website: they took crowdsourced funds for an unlicensed STAR TREK film and paid themselves.

**

I totally agree that the fan film restrictions are too extreme. The restrictions on length and what props and costumes can be used and what content can be shown are absurd -- no official TREK film could have been made under those restrictions, such as any film or episode where McCoy and Kirk share a drink.

I've said before that STAR TREK is Paramount's house and they have every right to make their rules as extreme as they like as long as they're not illegal. I will say, however, that STAR TREK is becoming a house I wouldn't visit -- but I will defend to the end their right to make their house that way.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

They did go pretty far with the rules. But I think they kinda had to. It's like having a dog who keeps pulling on the leash and dragging you down the street. You can say "no" and calmly try to stand your ground, but that usually doesn't work. You normally have to assert your authority over them and jerk back a little.

Like I said, these extreme rules will probably be loosened or altered in the future. But right now, the dog is being shown who the master is. There isn't a fun way of doing that. I think that at this point, I'm not holding it against the company. However, they need to find a way for reasonable fans to remain close to the franchise.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I don't think it warrants its own post, but I really enjoyed Star Trek: Beyond.  I thought it was a lot of fun, and it was the most complete movie of the series IMO.  Some pretty cool ties to the Trek universe as a whole(including a few references to Enterprise).

Anton Yelchin was great.  Made me really sad that he's gone.

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
  • Posts: 297

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I'll wait until it's on a service I have, not paying $15 to see it.  It's been said that given the NCC-1031 designation spotted on the Starship Discovery (in the SDCC teaser), the new series will be set at some point before TOS.  Now, as we know, the NCC designations as used in TOS were not always so easily "organized."  Reason being that the set artists tended to prefer to do as little redressing ($$$) as possible.  This wound up with situations such as USS Constellation getting NCC-1017 of course.

  • Registered: 2015-06-21
  • Posts: 250

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

The designation doesn't mean much; there were ships from the TOS era still operating in the Next Generation era.  Usually the most obvious answer is true, so I think it will end up being an adaptation of "Planet of the Titans" which was an abandoned attempt to make a Star Trek feature film in 1976.  The ship design meant for that film is practically identical to the Discovery.

If Titans is the case, that would put the time frame set between TOS and the first Star Trek film.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

The design looks more like the TOS era than anything that's come after. It almost looks like a Starfleet/Romulan (or Klingon... but more Romulan, I think) combo design from that era, but I doubt that's the case. The nacelles and deflector dish do look TMP-era.

It's actually a really klunky design, which doesn't impress me. The shapes are so basic and uninspired. I guess it makes sense if it's from some point around TOS or TMP (and assuming that the current movie timeline isn't in play) but it's not a pretty ship.

The more interesting element to the video of the Discovery is the shipyard that's it's docked in. It seem to be inside an asteroid. I don't think we've ever seen that shipyard before. It makes it seem more secret somehow.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I'd actually like to see a TOS era ship trying to survive in the TNG/DS9/VOY era.  We've always been on a ship that's been technologically superior.  The Enterprise was the Starfleet flagship, DS9 and the Defiant were pretty tough, and Voyager was the most advanced ship in the Delta Quadrant it seemed like.

Sorta like Beyond, actually.  What if a crew crashed and had to escape on a TOS-era ship.  They save the day and return to Earth.  And due to the Dominion War or whatever, they can't give them a new ship.  The new captain volunteers to use the old ship.  So they're using an outdated ship in a really uncertain time.  That would be cool, I think.

But, yeah, TF is probably right.  I've heard that story too.

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Info the design is based on one of the unused concepts for the 1970's Phase II series.  I think they will benefit from the short run (13 episodes), where they can tell a story from start to finish, and not worry about going back to the well and retreading over 7 seasons or whatever.  You can also benefit with this approach if you intend to change casts after each season, because you'll be able to hire some hefty names like Netflix or HBO have, since they won't require a 3, 5, 7 year commitment.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Still an ugly, poorly designed ship. They'd better have a good reason for going back to that, because it's going to look pretty low-rent, even compared to fan designs.

  • Registered: 2015-10-28
  • Posts: 75

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I understand that the third film. Star Trek Beyond will the last of the JJ Abrams rebooted films.
It was a decent film, quite good actually so now we look forward to the new TV series coming in 2017...

I saw an article that was showing subtle hints and homage that we saw in Abrams films. For instance it tells how since Chekov is not  in the original "space seed" episode he has no actual physical contact with Khan in "Into Darkness" however, Chekov is the only crew member who has actual physical contact with Khan in "Wrath"

Something I picked up on (did anyone else notice this?) when the Enterprise goes to Yorktown, we see Sulu with his gay partner and their child...George Takei is gay in real life and I think they were paying homage to George by making Sula gay. Interesting.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
  • Posts: 1,620

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

KerrAvon wrote:

I understand that the third film. Star Trek Beyond will the last of the JJ Abrams rebooted films.

I don't think that's right.  From what I've read, they've already signed Chris Hemsworth to return as  George Kirk in a fourth film.  Zachary Quinto was on a late night show and said that they love working together so I can imagine they'd keep going.  I'd like to keep Simon Pegg on as a screenwriter - I think his love of Trek showed in Beyond.

Something I picked up on (did anyone else notice this?) when the Enterprise goes to Yorktown, we see Sulu with his gay partner and their child...George Takei is gay in real life and I think they were paying homage to George by making Sula gay. Interesting.

Yeah, it was done as an homage to George, but George actually didn't like it.  He said that it's a disservice to the character who has always been, at least in his mind, straight.  Zachary Quinto, who is also gay, was a bit hurt by that, but I don't think George was mad.  He just didn't think a previously-straight character should be switched just for the sake of switching.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I thought it was stupid of Quinto to come back with "Well I'm gay too!" I'm no fan of Takei, but he played the character for many, many years. He's allowed to have an opinion on the character without it turning into a commentary on society as a whole.

I hate that I just took George Takei's side in anything.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

New info on Discovery.

http://tvline.com/2016/08/10/star-trek- … lers-cast/

I have no idea what this big event might be. Anyone else? I'm less of a TOS fan, so I'm a little tired of going back to the Kirk and pre-Kirk era. That said, if there is a good story to tell, I will watch it. I think that Fuller is a good person for the job of blending the old Trek style with modern TV.

I hope they don't reimagine the aliens too much.

I am intrigued about the idea of a non-captain as the lead. Don't care about gender, as long as the character is solid.

The gay thing... For me, it's not a matter of the social issue, it is about character. I hate when they force characters to be gay for the sake of having a gay character. That said, sometimes characters just are who they are. That's fine. Honestly though, if you want to outrage Trek fans, throw in a Christian character. Their heads will explode.

The ship is still fugly. Now it reminds me of the Vulcan emblem.

67 Reply by Slider_Quinn21 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2016-10-26 21:58:41)

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I thought all the stuff he mentioned sounds cool.  I think Fuller gets it, and I think he'll make a great show.  I'm excited about it.

No idea about the event he's talking about.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
  • Posts: 1,845

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I'm trying to watch the Star Trek 50th anniversary ComicCon panel and it is reminding me of how absurdly simplistic the morals and lessons of Star Trek can be. I really hope that we have more DS9-ish depth to that world in the new series, and not the empty, childish "lessons" that the franchise could often have.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Apparently Fuller stepped down.  I'm immediately much less excited about the show....

http://www.superherohype.com/news/38475 … showrunner

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
  • Posts: 1,845

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I read that too. And yeah, my expectations are lowered. I think that CBS is probably trying to stick their nose in things, which they always do. It is an old fashioned mentality, especially for streamed shows.

Fuller has said that he has always wanted to run a Star Trek show, so I have a hard time believing that he is simply putting other projects ahead of this one.

I guess we'll see what happens.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

He's staying on as EP so I'm hoping he'll still be involved enough to make sure it's good.  Or maybe it's some sort of negotiation tactic.

I want this to be good really badly.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

The problem is going to be CBS. They don't do good TV.

  • Registered: 2015-10-28
  • Posts: 75

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Ironically Roddenberry hated the storylines that involved space battles but these were always fan favorites. and also many of the scripts penned by Gene were just not that good. 

He did give us a positive outlook for the future (for the most part) but the show did buy into the "naked ape" hypothesis that humanity is inherently savage. this theme was brought up more times than I care to remember.  His insistence on having  multi racial and ethnic crew members was well ahead of the times.

I like the dark world presented by DS9 in contrast to the sterile world we were usually treated to. It was not unlike  Babylon 5 world which also painted a darker picture of our future aboard a claustrophobic space station.

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
  • Posts: 297

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

CBS has been an outright disaster for Star Trek.  They've pissed a lot of fans off after fighting with the web fan series. 

That being said, the budget is VERY high for this series, and as you might imagine, the network is going to be quite hands on.  Also interesting that Toronto has basically become the home of sci-fi TV production.

  • Registered: 2015-10-28
  • Posts: 75

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I recently read an article on franchises that should be retired and Star Trek came up.
Basically the author felt that the Trek films have become very formulaic (especially the JJ Abrams films) and perhaps it is best to forget the feature length films and return Trek to the small screen

It seems to be more at home there...

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
  • Posts: 1,845

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Star Trek does work better as a series, but I think the problem with the recent movies was Abrams. He shouldn't have been allowed near the franchise, because it became obvious that he just wasn't a Trekkie. Of all the producer/directors they had to choose from, why pick the one who really just wanted to make Star Wars movies?

I think the franchise could have a lot of life left in it, but it needs to be done correctly. And TV makes more sense for it.


They should retire Star Wars. smile

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
  • Posts: 297

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Honestly Kerr I wouldn't complain if they retired ALL franchises!  Let's get back to how they made and distributed movies 30-40 years ago! 

Abrams lack of Trekness was not an issue.  He didn't write the script, that was supposed fans Orci and Kurtzman, who've yet to turn in a film script that wasn't dog poop.  JJ had a vision for Trek in theaters in the 21st century that would appeal to the masses.  He was successful in that respect.  The franchise has been crap though due to bad writing, or a lack of writing in favor of bad jokes, CGI, and CGI. 

At this point, I wonder if the new series even gets off the ground?

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

http://www.superherohype.com/news/38689 … overy-exit

Fuller won't be involved at all.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

That is a shame, but it makes sense. He is pretty busy, and I get the impression that CBS might not be the easiest company to work with.

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Train wreck

  • Registered: 2015-06-21
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Oh, come on. Bryan Fuller doesn't work on lots of TV shows that we all enjoy watching.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

True. But when you have someone hired to essentially create the vision of a new series, and then the series is delayed, and casting isn't progressing very quickly, and no new news is coming out, then he steps back, and then he says that he's no longer involved at all... it just looks bad. So far, most of what we know about the new series is "Bryan Fuller is connected!" and now that's not true.

So now it's back to other people trying to create a vision for the series, which is basically square one.

We all want a Star Trek series that will be great. The question right now is, are they making the show because they have a great idea, or are they making the show because they've already announced it?

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

To be fair, he could've created the spark and handed it to someone great.  We don't know.  I was looking forward to a Fuller-led series, but whoever is running it could do a great job.

I also heard that it's going to also be shown on Netflix so now I don't have to steal it smile

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Netflix? Really? That's cool. I was just going to do a free trial of the CBS thing, but I really don't like CBS shows, so I would never pay.

  • Registered: 2015-06-21
  • Posts: 1,424

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

There's plenty of talent on DISCOVERY. Alex Kurtzman did amazing work on TRANSFORMERS PRIME. Nicholas Meyer is the writer (yes) and director of THE WRATH OF KHAN and THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, the two most influential TREK films ever made. Aaron Harberts and Gretchen Berg wrote spectacular scripts for WONDERFALLS, PUSHING DAISIES, ROSWELL and REVENGE. Even without Bryan Fuller, the list of writers on DISCOVERY reads like a dream team of talent to me.

  • Registered: 2015-06-21
  • Posts: 250

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Informant wrote:

Netflix? Really? That's cool. I was just going to do a free trial of the CBS thing, but I really don't like CBS shows, so I would never pay.

The last report I read stated that Discovery will be on Netflix in 188 countries; the exceptions are the US and Canada.  If we want to watch it, the only option is CBS All Access.

87 Reply by Slider_Quinn21 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2016-12-04 15:04:22)

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Well, that would make sense.  I heard about it on the Weekly Planet, which is an Australian-based podcast.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

That's a shame. I guess I will have to go with the free trial.

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Problem is the series is supposed to be show week by week, so the 30 day trial wouldn't help unless you waited for the completion.  They've casted 3 leads, namely veteran actors Doug Jones, Anthony Rapp, and Michelle Yeoh.  Very strange that the Captain of the vessel doesn't seem to be a lead.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
  • Posts: 1,620

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I thought they confirmed that Yeoh was the captain?

I also wouldn't necessarily mind a West Wing (at least, the original concept of the West Wing) approach, where it's more about the staff and the captain is more of a minor character in the background.

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Wiki has her as the captain of a different ship, and only recurring.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I think they've said that the lead will be a female, and more like a Lt. than a Captain. I forget the specifics. She may be a specialist of some sort, dealing with... something.

This post isn't adding a lot to the conversation, is it?

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

They cast Soniqua Martin-Green from The Walking Dead.  She's terrific on that show at least.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I guess Sasha ain't long for Walking Dead, despite what the news outlets are saying.

  • Registered: 2015-06-23
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

It probably depends on the filming schedule. The Walking Dead usually films between May and November. Star Trek Discovery is set to premiere in May, but who knows when it will actually happen? Either way, she should have some of Star Trek filmed before The Walking Dead resumed production. And since that is an ensemble show, she may be able to work out a schedule for filming that would allow her to do both. It sounds impossible, but I've seen actors do it before.  Daniel Gillies was a lead on the Canadian series, Saving Hope while also a lead on the CW series, The Originals.

It's not impossible. It could take come cooperation between productions though. It is likely that Sasha will at least have a somewhat reduced role, if she survives.

  • From: Florida
  • Registered: 2015-07-06
  • Posts: 38

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Informant wrote:

It is likely that Sasha will at least have a somewhat reduced role, if she survives.

And it's not like she has a huge role as is. I occasionally forget she's still on the show.

Ex-member

DieselMickyDolenz's Website

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

I mean, it's definitely possible.  She doesn't have a huge role (like DMD, I had to check to make sure she was alive and she's in the final shot of the midseason finale), and she could definitely be rolled back.  If it were any other show, I'd guess that.

But it's Walking Dead, and people die all the time.  It's probably easier for everyone involved if they just kill her off.

  • Registered: 2015-06-21
  • Posts: 250

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Sasha seemed to slide into the Andrea role from the comics (Andrea wasn't supposed to die), so one would think Sasha has a lot of life left in her.  Of course, nothing is set in stone on the show.  Carol should have died at the prison if they followed the comics, but she's a fixture of the show.

  • Registered: 2015-06-22
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Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

Ha, I mean I don't even like the show that much.  I'm just thinking that if she got another job, she's probably going to die on the show.  I honestly wouldn't care either way smile

  • Registered: 2015-06-30
  • Posts: 297

Re: Star Trek in Film and TV

She has taken a back seat on TWD, and well could have been written off of it this season.  They wrapped production a couple weeks ago in GA.  I believe an all out slug fest with the Saviors is due by the end of this season.