Re: Supernatural

The idea of watching shows when they air as opposed to having them recorded and then played or streamed at my convenience is just... so... alien to me.

Re: Supernatural

I usually have shows that I will watch live. My higher priority shows are watched live. Then I have some that I will stream or record to watch later at night before bed. The next level down in priority would be lunchtime shows. Lowest priority are treadmill shows.

I've managed to maintain a steady diet of tv watching this way, while still having time to, like... work and get stuff done. I just like to keep my eye on what's going on on tv.

I used the word "on" three times in that one sentence.

Re: Supernatural

I watch nothing live, but the order in which they air does determine the order in which I watch things.

Re: Supernatural

Informant wrote:

The show started on Tuesday, if I recall correctly. Then it moved to Thursday, with Smallville. Then Friday. Then maybe Tuesday again? Then Wednesday. Now back to Thursday. But it holds up well when moved.

I don't know why I remember this or decided to do the research now, but:

Season 1 (Episodes 1-16) - Tuesday
Season 1 (Episodes 17-22) - Thursday
Season 2 - Thursday
Season 3 - Thursday
Season 4 - Thursday
Season 5 - Thursday
Season 6 - Friday
Season 7 - Friday
Season 8 - Wednesday
Season 9 - Tuesday
Season 10 - Tuesday
Season 11 - Wednesday
Season 12 - Thursday

It's a miracle this show has been so popular with how much it's been moved.  Or maybe just a sign of the times when no one watches live.

Re: Supernatural

I bet that a move to Monday would kill the show instantly  smile

The fans of this show are really, really loyal. It had helped and hurt the show over the years. I am really looking forward to a more human season 12.

Re: Supernatural

Possible spoilers....

Apparently this season will deal with hunters, and there's a chance that we'll see hunters from the past (living and maybe dead) return to the show.  This should make Informant happy if he reads it smile

Re: Supernatural

I've read hints of what this season is going to bring us and it sounds really cool! Aside from Crowley and Lucifer and all that, it sounds like it is more human based and grounded. More horror stories. I'm really looking forward to it. Even seeing Mary again could add a nice dynamic to the show. For so long, the Winchester's have been forced to remain in their original forms, without starting families or changing their dynamic much at all. Mary could be a cool way to do that, but without fangirls getting upset about a woman being near the guys.

I wonder if she will remember meeting them in the past

Re: Supernatural

The Lucifer stuff could be cool if it's grounded.  He thought he was this big badass and now he's reduced to running from Crowley.  A humbled Devil could be cool.

Re: Supernatural

Maybe. But I want Crowley dethroned for keeps. He can be a demon on the show, but the throne room scenes and mustache twirling got old

Re: Supernatural

I mean I get that, but the cat's out of the bag.  Unless they did something permanent with the angels and demons (and the Angel/Demon Tablets were a way to do that), then I think they sorta have to include angel/demon stories.  Crowley would have a stake in a lot of the things the Winchesters do - as would Heaven.  If Crowley is dethroned, then it would need to be someone else.

I know you'd hate this, but it'd be kinda funny if Charlie ended up as the Queen of Hell.  They also could've put Amara in charge of Hell.  Either way, it'd be a true ally on the brothers' side and demons wouldn't be a problem.

Re: Supernatural

I think they should put Castiel in Hell, not as a king, but as a warden. It's supposed to be a prison, after all. He's exiled from Heaven, but could still serve that purpose in Hell, doing work for God. It'd be a good way to go for him, and it would solve a lot of problems. Without Castiel, the rest of the angels really don't seem to care about Sam and Dean at this point.

Charlie... I'm okay with the idea of her *being* in Hell. But making her Queen of Hell would just be highlighting the problem with her character. Nothing she does can be taken seriously. She's hokey and lame and sucks the life out of episodes. She should never, ever return. If they brought her back and not Jo or Ellen, I'd be pissed.

Re: Supernatural

Well, I wouldn't make her a regular character.  Just Queen of Hell and she only makes appearances if necessary.  Outside of that, she keeps demons off their case.

Re: Supernatural

Fine. She can be Queen of Hell... As long as it is never shown on screen.

Or referenced.

Re: Supernatural

Ha, I just think it'd be funny.

I'd still prefer that Heaven and Hell just get closed for whatever reason.  So no angels and demons.  But they've had plenty of times they could've done that and didn't.  So I'm guessing that's not part of the plan.

Who do you dislike more: Crowley or Felicity? smile

Re: Supernatural

Felicity served a purpose at one point. She was light and fun and useful.

Charlie never added anything to Supernatural. She destroyed every episode that she was in. She couldn't even die without ripping off Jenny Calendar's death.

Re: Supernatural

The British Men of Letters idea is still pretty cool to me.  The idea of a network of wards and sigils allowing them to track monsters before they do any damage is pretty sweet, but it sorta reminds me of how Europeans talk about (insert issue) working in their country and how the US could install their system to work better.

The problem is that England is the size of Alabama.  Warding "Every thoroughfare, every bridge, every dock, every airport" in England would've taken years.  It'd take decades in the US, even if they had an army of people doing it.  The British way is unquestionably the better way, but it's not exactly practical. 

I do really like the idea of a high-tech system tracking monsters before they do damage, though.  I'm curious to see how this is going to play out.  I'd love to see what the British MoL plan is.

Re: Supernatural

The premiere was pretty solid. I like that it is human-based and not some vague CGI and the threat of an apocalypse. It is the result of everything thst the guys have done up to this point, which is neat. But I agree that the MoL method isn't as realistic in the US. They would have to have implemented it across Europe in order for that to make sense. I kinda doubt that it was as effective as it was made out to be. I wouldn't be surprised if the Men of Letters higher-ups have been infiltrated. Why else would they do nothing as the world came within seconds of being destroyed on several occasions?

Mary was well written too. She isn't just some kick-ass hunter, she is a complex character. A hunter, but with no love of the life. I could see her story going in a few different directions. I hope she doesn't get killed off. Maybe she could eventually even have another family  it gives the show a chance to expand the Winchester/Campbell family and have a character's life evolve. For some reason, it doesn't seem like they're allowed to do that with Sam and Dean.

Re: Supernatural

I think I dislike Rowena as much as Info dislikes Crowley.  I was sorta hoping Lucifer would kill them both and we could move on.  I thought Rick Springfield did a decent job as Lucifer, though.

And I like that the UK Men of Letters seem to have weaponized the lore a bit better than the Winchesters have.  I think this could be a cool storyline if they do it correctly.  But I bet they make them into villains and show that the brothers' way is the better way.

Re: Supernatural

Mary should open a bar! Like the old Harvelle roadhouse. Middle of nowhere, hanging with hunters without having to be one. I think it would fit her.

She has fit into the show really well. It is a shame that she isn't a regular. I hope we see more of her, without her dying. It's fine to just have her out there, like Jody Mills. She adds some really cool flavors to this mix. Not only are Sam and Dean dealing with Men of Letters vs. hunters, but they're dealing with old school hunting vs. modern hunting.

If I had to guess right now, I would say that the UK Men of Letters aren't as successful as they believe themselves to be. Maybe the organization itself has been taken over. Maybe by the UK Steins smile

Rowena... Y'know, she hasn't been as annoying lately. Maybe because she has actually served a purpose to the plot, or maybe because she isn't pure evil anymore. I certainly don't want her around all the time, but every once in a long while might not be too bad.

Did I really just say that?



Ooh, or Mary could partner up with Castiel. Heaven's Outcasts, coming 2018 to the CW!

Re: Supernatural

Okay, so I got behind on the show last year, and just never had the time to catch up.  I refuse to pay for a DVR so that made it more difficult!  In any case, they put S11 on Netflix last month, and I've binged and caught up with it, as well as the first 6 episodes of S12. 

I really enjoyed S11, I felt like they had the right amount of humor but also danger for the "boys."  It was nice to once again have them compete as simply humans, without the specter of having to save one or the other from some kind of eternal doom.  Just the universe this time.  Rob Benedict was great again as Chuck, with Curtis Armstrong providing a terrific Metatrone.   It was also great to have Mark Pellegrino return as Lucifer!  The Bobby/Rufus episode was fantastic as well.  Ruth Connell and Mark Sheppard once again were great to watch as they bickered.  All credit to Misha for portraying Lucifer as well, did a great job.

Now obviously S12 seems to be centering on this potential fight with the British Men of Letters, as well as the return of Mary Winchester.  It will be interesting to see where it leads, but obviously the gravitas does not equal the previous year's.  One thing I will say is that Samantha Smith, who quite honestly has never done more than spot guest work in the past, has been really good in the character.  I mean, they kind of lucked out in that regard, in that they've brought her back several times to keep continuity.

Re: Supernatural

I agree that Samantha is doing a great job. She fit into the show seamlessly, in a way that hasn't really happened, maybe since Jody was introduced. I hope they keep her around, even if she's not on all the time.

Re: Supernatural

I'll say one thing, I myself have NEVER followed a live action series this long without getting sick of it and praying for mercy cancellation.  So they must be doing something right!

Re: Supernatural

I actually thought the Lucifer storyline has been pretty good, and I thought Rick Springfield did a pretty good job in the role.  I liked that Lucifer is just emotionally distraught and doesn't have a master plan.  I think it's a pretty cool idea for a villain.

Re: Supernatural

This season is still really good overall... but I hated the midseason finale. It had a lot of the same problems as season 7's Leviathan arc.

Supernatural is at its best when they keep it small and personal. The idea of Lucifer taking over the President sounds great when you throw it out there, but it completely falls apart in the execution. Where do you go with that character? What do you do with him? They don't have Washington DC to film in, so they're stuck in some random location. They don't know how to write the President or his staff, so they fumble around. The prayer scene was completely ridiculous. A President might say a prayer, but to have his entire staff kneel before him (and remember, this is normal, not a Lucifer thing) was absurd.

They didn't want to go too political. They didn't want to go too big and have him nuke Canada or something... Basically, they wanted him to be the President because it sounded cool on paper, but he might as well have been any random guy in a suit when it came to the actual story at hand. He's pretty much just another Dick Roman.

And then they had the regular characters bending over backwards to get to the cliffhanger points, regardless of whether or not it made any sense. Why did Sam and Dean stay behind in the motel when Castiel left? Just so they could get arrested.

Even the scene where the Secret Service guys stop Sam, Dean and Castiel on the street made no sense. On what grounds were they being stopped or arrested? Suspicion of driving a cool car? I know we like to think that the scary men in suits can disappear people whenever they want to, but it's not quite that simple. And the Secret Service guy didn't even seem bothered by any of this. He was acting like one of Crowley's demons in suits.

Angels in suits. Demons in suits. Leviathans in suits. Lucifer in a suit... the show does better when people are wearing jeans.


I like that Lucifer was dealt with. I'm not sure it made sense that they couldn't put him into the cage in his vessel, since Sam ended up there, once upon a time. But whatever. He's gone. Cool. The nephilim idea is cool, but I'm not really up for another quickly aging baby bad guy, so I don't really care if we never hear from that storyline ever again. I'd rather see the anti-Christ make a comeback. Where is that kid?


The one good part of the episode was when Crowley blew up Rowena's boyfriend. Who would have thought that Crowley and Rowena would be the best part of any episode?!

Re: Supernatural

That episode was terrible, really painful to get through it.

Re: Supernatural

So after idk 5 years on my HDD, I finally binged the full 22 eps of the Supernatural Anime from 2011!  It's essentially an quasi-alternate take on the first season, created in anime style for and by Japan.  Jared voiced all 22, and he was damn good.  Jensen only did the two-part finale, and he was okay, not great.  The previous actor was very good, but it was a different Dean he created.  Obvious ugh was that Bobby Singer was drawn as a bald, shaven, loud mouth New Yorker or something, while John Winchester, was unshaven, also bald, and pretty much a bad ass.  Strange.  The stories are written mainly by the CW SN team, and were all very strong.  Glad I finally got through them.

Re: Supernatural

Supernatural will be back for a 13th season!

Re: Supernatural

I expected it, but still glad to hear it.

Re: Supernatural

I thought "Stuck in the Middle (With You)" was a really clever episode.  If they're going to end up fighting more yellow-eyed demons, that might be a pretty cool way to wrap up the season.

But what happened to the Colt?  According to the wikis, the gun was last used to try and kill Lucifer.  Did they just lose it after that?

Re: Supernatural

Didn't Dean get knocked out when he tried to use the Colt on Lucifer, and it just disappeared after that? I haven't seen that episode in a long while.

I am curious to see how this plays out. Is Mary playing the MoL, or is she really working for them? They made a point of her reading John's journal, so she should have a firm grasp of what the Colt means.

Re: Supernatural

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGqG0PAtkkg

Dean flies off, but there's never any indication of what happens to the gun.  And as far as I know, it hasn't been mentioned (in the present) since.  It was in the Old West episode, but that was in the past.

Re: Supernatural

I guess Crowley grabbed it. smile

Re: Supernatural

I guess so!  It's just weird that it's been gone so long, considering how important it was.  They had a way to make new bullets, and just because it couldn't kill Lucifer doesn't mean it couldn't kill a lot of other things smile

Did they ever say the four other beings that it couldn't kill?  I'm guessing the archangels...and God?

Re: Supernatural

Let's see... My best guesses... God, Amara, archangels (which I will count Lucifer in with), Death... I'm not sure what the last one would be.

Re: Supernatural

I thought the gun was useless without bullets?  And since when does it glow?  These British men of letters really are lame.  You have Ketch played by a Canadian with one of the worst fake British accents I've ever heard.  The Tarantino style of the episode was also lame.

Re: Supernatural

My niece is a big SUPERNATURAL fan and for the last three years, every time I see her, I ask for no reason whatsoever, "By the way, did we ever find out what happened to the Colt?" until this constant refrain causes her to throw empty soda cans in my direction while shrieking, "For the last time, no!!!!"

She has expressed tremendous relief that this episode will now prevent me from asking her this question ever again.

Re: Supernatural

Grizzlor wrote:

I thought the gun was useless without bullets?  And since when does it glow?  These British men of letters really are lame.  You have Ketch played by a Canadian with one of the worst fake British accents I've ever heard.  The Tarantino style of the episode was also lame.

I think the glowing was just another Tarantino reference (the briefcase that glowed).

The gun was useless without bullets, but after they used the last one (killing Yellow Eyes?), Ruby helped them make new ones.  They used it a handful of times with the new bullets until they tried it on Lucifer and it disappeared.

Re: Supernatural

The Colt's disappearance was always confusing; Dean shoots Lucifer, it doesn't work, Lucifer throws Dean into a tree and then the Colt isn't seen again except in the past. I always wondered: if Dean dropped it, why didn't the boys go back to the field at some point after Lucifer left or was imprisoned and get the damned demon killing gun back? I imagine that a shot of Dean dropping the gun and failing to retrieve it was cut from the episode due to time constraints.

Two years after the Colt vanished in the fight with Lucifer, HarperCollins published BOBBY SINGER'S GUIDE TO HUNTING in which Bobby says Dean dropped the Colt in the field, everyone ran and no one looked back. But that didn't explain why they didn't go back for it later. This loose end was glaring and yet difficult to address beyond the showrunners feeling that the demon killing knife was sufficient and the Colt made things too easy.

Anyway. This new episode neatly resolves the issue: Dean dropped the Colt, and maybe the boys did go back for it, but Crowley beat them there and reclaimed the gun first.

Re: Supernatural

I always assumed the Lucifer or one of his demons grabbed it. It just made sense, so it was never an issue for me. I assumed that it was at the bottom of an ocean somewhere.

The fact that Crowley grabbed it does make sense. It would make for great leverage in Hell.

Re: Supernatural

I never really worried about it because it didn't work against Lucifer, and that's all that mattered at the time.  I don't think it was bad planning....I just think everyone (including Sam and Dean) didn't think it was important at the time.  It was essentially useless for the task at hand so they needed to find something else.

I think ireactions is 100% correct that the writers figured it was too easy to give the boys something that kills pretty much anything, and that's why it wasn't brought up again.

Re: Supernatural

I thought it was really sloppy that the Colt, a critical magical object for five seasons, was forgotten with no fanfare and you can't even tell what happened to it onscreen and a media tie in had to establish that Dean dropped it. It's reappearance in the time travel episode was very nice but the boys not discussing its present day location was a glaring omission. There should have at least been one ADR line about how the field had been solo badly torn up by whatever ritual Lucifer enacted that the gun couldn't be found.

Re: Supernatural

Yeah, it was definitely lazy and one of the few things about Kripke's run that a) Kripke didn't tie up neatly and b) other writing staffs didn't go back and tie up themselves.

I'm sure there's going to be a line about it once the boys find out it's back in the game, but it's gonna be a really late explanation.

Re: Supernatural

The Colt is nothing compared to Adam! They have a brother in Lucifer's cage and they didn't even mention him when they got Lucifer out!

Between the demon knife and the angel blades, the Colt's ability to kill things hadn't really been missed much.

Re: Supernatural

Yeah, the Adam stuff is just weird.  Now that Lucifer is out, is it just Michael and Adam trapped?  I know they say Michael has gone insane, but it's weird that God didn't show any concern for Michael either.  Especially when the "bad son" was already out of the cage.

Re: Supernatural

I have a theory that Adam isn't in the cage. In my head, there is a story where the loss of Sam and Adam was eating away at Dean, causing Castiel to attempt to pull Sam out (only getting his body). Castiel's failure only drove Dean into more of a depression, so Castiel did some creative editing and made Dean forget Adam the same way he made Lisa forget Dean. This is why Dean only remembers Adam when he is dead (Appointment in Samarra) and neither Sam nor Dean seem to have any memory of Adam in "Fan Fiction").

Given the state of Sam's soul after a few (Earth) months in Hell, I'm not sure that there would be anything left of Adam to save at this point. However, if he died before he and Sam entered the cage (the way Jimmy died when Castiel was blown up), Adam might not be in the cage at all. Of course, Death made Dean choose between brothers. This would seem to indicate that Adam is down there.

But it's my imaginary story inside my head, so I get to decide that Death was just forcing Dean to make a choice to mess with him (or that Death didn't actually know that Adam wasn't in there, because he hadn't been to the cage since everyone was sent back there).

Re: Supernatural

Regarding the Colt: I now wonder if the writers didn't even mean for the Colt to disappear the way it did. In "Abandon All Hope," Dean is still holding the Colt when Lucifer throws him into a tree, but when Sam goes to Dean's unconscious form, the gun is now under Dean's hand; he's not holding it anymore.

Then Dean regains consciousness and Castiel teleports them away. It's not clear if Dean picked up the gun again before Castiel took him away or not, which left it completely possible that the Colt was simply hidden away in Bobby's house, useless in the fight against Lucifer and therefore not on camera. The Colt could have reappeared at any point in the series in the boy's hands and that would have been fine. The writers seemed averse to even speaking of it, leaving it unclear if the boys even had it anymore until "Frontierland," a season later -- when the boys need to go to 1861 to kill a phoenix with the Colt and have to locate the Colt in 1861 -- which indicates that they don't know where the gun is in the present day.

Is it possible that the Colt wasn't meant to be lost, just unused and put away -- but unclear editing left that uncertain, then the long period of time it went unmentioned made it even more ambigous -- and then the writers conceived "Frontierland" which required the Colt be unavailable in the present day?

Re: Supernatural

Well, my guess is that the Colt played it's purpose in Kripke's version of the show (killing everything it needed to kill), and when it couldn't kill Lucifer, it was discarded.  If you just watch seasons 1-5 (which, in Kripke's mind, is all there is), then it's not really even a plot hole.  Whether Bobby has it, Crowley has it, Dean has it, or it's still in that field....Sam is dead and Dean is no longer hunting.  Who has the Colt isn't important.

So there wasn't a shot of the Colt going missing or a mention of it because it no longer mattered in the 5-season arc that Kripke was telling.  And, as you said, the new writers either didn't know what to do with it, couldn't justify where it was supposed to be (since Kripke left no bread crumbs to follow) or just ignored it because it was too powerful.

I think it's a really interesting conversation.  Do we know if Kripke still follows the show?  I wonder if he's like Torme and doesn't really care anymore, or if he still watches as a fan.  I wonder where he'd think the Colt went.

Either way, it's cool that it's back.  And I wonder if they'll even worry about filling in the blanks.  Will they do a scene re-enacting the attack on Lucifer?  Or do we have all they're going to give us?

Re: Supernatural

The impression that I've always gotten is that People is still part of the Supernatural family. A couple of years ago, he spoke about the chances of developing a spin-off and he was involved with that. And they make subtle references to him on the show. So I think he is still part of the Supernatural family, but I doubt that he plays a super active role. I think of the show as being like a comic book. Head writers come in and tell their story arc, and then hand it over. It is an interesting way to handle it.

It would be interesting if Kripke ever decided that he had another story to tell in the Supernatural world.

Re: Supernatural

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Well, my guess is that the Colt played it's purpose in Kripke's version of the show (killing everything it needed to kill), and when it couldn't kill Lucifer, it was discarded.  If you just watch seasons 1-5 (which, in Kripke's mind, is all there is), then it's not really even a plot hole.  Whether Bobby has it, Crowley has it, Dean has it, or it's still in that field....Sam is dead and Dean is no longer hunting.  Who has the Colt isn't important.

!!!!!!

That makes total sense. Now that you point this out, I didn't even begin my (ridiculous) habit of randomly asking my niece, "Say, whatever happened to the Colt?" until I got into Season 6. I didn't even think about it until about 5 - 6 episodes into Season 6. I'd forgotten in all this wondering that Season 5 had been conceived as the end.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Either way, it's cool that it's back.  And I wonder if they'll even worry about filling in the blanks.  Will they do a scene re-enacting the attack on Lucifer?  Or do we have all they're going to give us?

I think that Crowley having the Colt -- and having been the one who returned it to the boys before they lost it again -- neatly fills that gap, but I guess they could refilm that moment from Season 5. They did de-age Jensen Ackles once and they've got Mark Pellegrino.

Anyway. I think from now on, I will randomly ask my niece, "So, is Ben really Dean's son?" Hopefully, SUPERNATURAL won't take that away from me.

Re: Supernatural

Two things:

1. They didn't really acknowledge it.  "Where did you get this?" became more about Ramiel than how it ended up with him.  I'm guessing we'll have to use our imaginations.  It's cool that it's back, although I'm also impressed that Sam was able to recite, from memory, how to make the bullets.  I didn't think it was an error....I think Sam probably would remember that.

2. Are we supposed to hate the British Men of Letters?  By the end of the episode, Sam comes around, but I kept thinking the whole time that the BMoL are *objectively* better at this than the Winchesters.  Whether or not that one lady tortured the boys or not, the operation itself seems like an amazing success.  I don't know if they're going for some sort of political angle (the whole "going after criminals" vs "going after terrorists" angle), but I honestly have considered the BMoL to be incredibly effective.  Even the whole bureaucracy thing, where they get really smart people who help the men on the field is efficient.

The only question I have is why it's taken so long for them to come over.  Especially since they can clearly spare the manpower.  It'd be cool if they were fighting their own version of the Darkness or Leviathans or whatever, and they just recently cleaned that up.  Because if they're this good and America was this "Wild West", why didn't they try and civilize the US earlier?

I know they'll probably end up evil or something will be terribly wrong with the way they do things.  If only because I don't think the show wants to be Sam and Dean: Agents of MoL.  But, for now, it's almost refreshing to see hunting done differently.