DC Movie Universe by Informant (Page 2 of 19)

I guess it's hard to decide what BvS is at this point, since we can't know anything for sure.
I guess we can talk about how well this movie universe is being run once Suicide Squad and Wonder Woman come out. I think that a looser grip could be a better move.

The difference that I see in tone is that Marvel plays up the campy elements, playing to the wider audience who don't take comic books seriously and expect a cartoon when they see them. So far, Snyder it looks like DC is really honoring the comics and taking them seriously. The comic books can be dark and complicated. When done right, they take these fantastical characters and create really layered stories that can be taken seriously.
Marvel's approach will appeal to a wider audience, but there is no emotional investment. There is no reality in place, which means that there is no weight to the stories at all. If any one of the Avengers died in the next movie, would the audience feel any real emotion about it, one way or the other? This is after 8 years and a billion movies. People watch those movies, but what is the audience investment?

Say what you will about Man of Steel, but the audience was invested. They debated character choices and still argue about events of the movie to this day. And it isn't just "the movie sucked!" arguments, it is "Superman would never allow his own father to die in order to protect his secret!" "But he isn't Superman yet, which is the point!" arguments.

The Avengers make more bad decisions than good ones. But how many debates do you see on the subject?

Anyway, even if the movie flops, I can see DC fliddling with things here and there. Maybe they'd replace Snyder for the Justice League movies. But I don't see them trashing the whole slate and starting from square one. They really can't. They made a huge presentation of their plan in front of millions of people. If they make that presentation irrelevant, it will make them look like a sinking ship and nobody will get on board. They would be better off scrapping the whole plan and never making the movies at all.

(By the way, you got post number 52!)

I'd just like to say that I love this... On so many sites these days, this argument would be 140 character bickering, with most of the comments being "if you don't like it, don't watch it!" and I hate that. I loves me some good conversation, with two rational points of view. We should make this a blog and monetize this conversation!

I think that too much is being made of The Flash, Cyborg, Aquaman and Wonder Woman at this point. From what's been said (I think by Snyder), most of those characters are hinted at, but play no large role in the movie. So what looks like a bloated superhero movie really isn't. Obviously, Wonder Woman plays a larger part than the others, but the others are mostly myths or urban legends. This is kinda how I imagined those characters being introduced when I wrote my Superman scripts, with Clark later using his journalistic side to investigate those legends and bring them into the world through the Justice League (which is a script that I never wrote).

As far as Superman goes... I don't see how Man of Steel could have been light and fun. It would take Clark a good amount of time before he reached a point where he could be anything but confused and terrified by his powers. His parents raised him to be scared of using them, because they knew that revealing those powers could be the end of him. Their point of view wasn't extreme or wrong. It was just unsustainable as he grew into an adult. The movie was about Clark moving from that point of being terrified, constantly running and hiding, and not only accepting who he is, but accepting who he wants to be. If they had made that easier, lighter, or more fun, it wouldn't have been genuine. The movie was about the biggest personal struggle that he'll ever face.
All that said, the movie was incredibly hopeful. It was about embracing who he is, but choosing what to do with it. Being born on Krypton doesn't make him Kryptonian.
I've always said that this was the Superman movie that I've always wanted to see. I do think that there is a time and place for Superman to be happy and light (not really funny, but lighter), but it would have been wrong for that first movie. That is something for him to work toward and earn. It's his happily ever after.

Civil War looks like a fun action movie, but I have a hard time watching the trailer and thinking of it as anything other than a response t Batman v Superman. I know that they had scheduled a third Captain America movie all along, but I don't believe that this was it. It doesn't strike me as character based, probably because I don't feel like the characters were ever really there. They have always used the characters like action figures, having them do whatever they needed to do in order for their movies to unfold. In The Avengers, some of the scenes of the Avengers fighting were ridiculous and out of place, but the people making it wanted it to happen, so it happened. And no matter how many times they prove that it is a bad idea, the people in these movies keep launching those stupid air bases that inevitably crash and kill a bunch of people.
It will be what all of the Marvel movies are... a thin plot, designed to have goofy characters with interchangeable personalities run around, shooting things and cracking jokes. And that works for them (money-wise), so good for them.

But when I watch the trailer for Batman v Superman, it instantly feels earned. I get why Batman is going after Superman. I get why Superman doesn't like Batman. I see how Lex is using the situation for his own advantage. And the funny part is that this isn't based on decades of knowing the characters. It's based on what happened in Man of Steel, and what we're being shown in the trailer for BvS. That's it. About two and a half hours of history with this world, and the plot of this movie feels earned.

Maybe if Civil War had been the first Captain America movie, it would have made more sense. These characters wouldn't know each other, or how to work with each other. They would be uneasy, and conflict could arise. But one of the first things you learn about using a gun is that you don't even point the thing at anything that you don't intend to destroy. I honestly can't buy into a plot where Captain America or Iron Man would intend to kill each other, and if that is taken off the table, the whole thing looks more like childish bickering than a real plot. If Civil War had been the first movie, it would have explained why those two characters bicker so much later, but earlier bickering can't explain them full-on turning on each other.

I can see Batman v Superman being the Dawn of Justice, as the title says. I can see this battle between the two known superheroes drawing enough attention to catch the eye of the others. I can see Diana stepping in when she has to, because she has the least to lose by doing so. And after her, I can see others beginning to rethink their decision to stay hidden. Aquaman may have been silent before, because keeping Atlantis a secret kept it safe from the outside world, but when worldwide events start to threaten his home regardless of whether people know about it or not, he has a duty to step up.
Cyborg was a victim, who they could say, was severely mutilated in the battle of Metropolis, and he's viewed himself as a victim ever since. But seeing what Batman and Superman do for people could inspire him to turn his curse into a blessing.
The Flash could have been helping people here and there, without ever moving slowly enough for people to see him. He is a blur that people talk about, but some may not even believe in. Some might just assume that it's Superman. But after Batman and Superman come together and Diana steps up to join them, and Aquaman reveals himself, maybe Barry would be inspired to stop being a blur and accept his role in their new world.

Mind you, all of these would be brief glimpses of characters at the end of the movie (aside from Wonder Woman). Maybe a montage of people watching the news, with these faces thrown in there. No significant roles in the movie.

Like I said, it's hard to judge what we haven't seen. But based on what I have seen, nothing about BvS feels completely wrong to me. I'm still questioning their decisions regarding Lex Luthor, but I won't know until I actually see the movie.

Hey. I reposted TF's Marvel Universe thoughts in the Marvel thread: http://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?pid=1818#p1818 Let's keep this thread for talking about how Slider_Quinn21 hates old people and how anyone over 30 can't fight crime!

;-)

http://movieweb.com/batman-v-superman-d … rner-bros/

Another article where people make up comments "from Warner Bros." and then create a huge stink about them. I don't even understand why people are so worked up about these things. But it feels like a negative press tour to me. These aren't legit reports by any stretch of the imagination.

Further evidence that the HitFix theory was wrong. Justice League will begin filming two weeks after the opening of BvS.

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/02/21/ju … s-April-11

Now, one could say that there is still time for the studio to slam on the breaks there (I still argue that it would be such bad press for them at that point that they probably wouldn't recover), but I would argue that if there studio were as worried as those anonymous sources have been telling gossip sites, they would have already found a reason to push filming back by at least a month or two, so they could see how BvS is received.

To change directors would mean reworking the script and going through the whole pre-production process again. It would set them back months, at least. And that would have a domino effect.

The whole idea of replacing Snyder is based on the rumor that he failed with BvS. This far, the studio has shown no sign of having lost their faith in the project.

Any time you have a series of movies planned out for years, they are going to be based on the assumption that the franchise is a success. Marvel's movies are based on the same faith. As are all movie series. Marvel didn't just freak out and get rid of Joss. They parted ways at a point where it made sense for them.

Right now, I see no reason to assume that Snyder should be replaced. I see no reason to believe that BvS is already a flop. This looks like business as usual.

The question is, what would make the Batman movie a better launching pad than Justice League? JL should be a good movie with a solid script, regardless of what happens with BvS. They should have people from Warner Bros and DC going over the script to make sure that Snyder isn't going crazy, and they should be showing that script to the people making any of the related movies, just so they can make sure that everyone is on the same page. Snyder isn't working in a bubble here. He is part of a bigger machine.

So, say BvS is a flop. Everyone hates it. They hate every minute of the movie and the meeting of these characters is a disaster. What good will it do to make a Batman movie instead of a Justice League movie? What did Thor 2 or Iron Man 3 change about Marvel's plans?

I'm not really expecting BvS to be loved by everyone. I think it will probably be divisive, because I don't think that it will be the Marvel knockoff that people are expecting, just like Man of Steel wasn't the Donner movie that people expected. (I know you have other issues with the movie, but most people dislike death of Zod or the lack of bright colors and "Aw gosh" attitude)
Deadpool and Guardians of the Galaxy get praised for being different, because let's face it... aside from comic book fan, nobody knows who those characters are. So while they go off the rails and people love it, I doubt that people will be as forgiving with BvS. People *want* Donner's Superman. People *want* Batman from the animated series. And when they get the characters from the comic books, or something based on various elements from the comic books, those people will not be happy. Everyone thinks they know these characters, because they had the t-shirt and watched the cartoons.
So, I don't know.

I'm just open to seeing what they do with the characters. I've seen these characters range from silly cartoon versions to very layered, serious versions. I think that I'm just more open because I don't really expect them to be anything in particular.

Then again, the last thing I want is for them to cram someone like Lex into a movie where he wasn't supposed to be. That's the problem with reactionary writing by a studio... The goal should be to write a good script, not to hit all of the marketing goals. It's all a balancing act, but it's far too easy for the studio to get that wrong. They'll say that Lex was a hit, so the next thing you know, Justice League involves them bringing in Lex to be a reluctant part of the team. Now you have Lex Luthor on the Justice League.

It's like when they made Spike a good guy on "Buffy". It just didn't work for the character or the story, and it was done for all of the wrong reasons.

There would be no way to get Batman out before Justice League at this point. It would take a year of development on that movie, followed by production, followed by post. It would be two or three years away, which would then put Justice League at at least four years away. That would push back the introductions of every other character they have... basically, as I said before, they'd be better off just scrapping the whole plan at that point. Because it's a train wreck, compounded by the horrible PR that would be surrounding them because of it.

They can still make tweaks to the script for JL, and even reshoot some stuff if they want. They can bump up colors in post. They can do a lot of things within the structure of their schedule. None of that is really unusual though.

The thing with Man of Steel is that he isn't Superman until the end of the movie. They don't use the name, because that's not who he is. This isn't Superman being Superman. This is Clark accepting what he is, where he comes from, and who he wants to be going forward. There isn't room for optimism, because the movie's plot is about this man of steel being vulnerable and terrified. And there's no way to avoid that. He was raised to be scared of what would happen if people found out about him. The whole movie is about him living his worst nightmare, pretty much. And for a lot of it, things go the way his parents told him it would. The government doesn't trust him. They come after him. His alien heritage is a threat to the world and everyone wants him torn apart.

Iron Man is a fun movie, but it's not a good character piece. And Clark can't be Tony. There was no room in Man of Steel for him to be the light, optimistic guy that we know from the cartoons, because that's not who he is yet. The movie wasn't called "Superman".

Most people (again, not you) don't care about Clark Kent. To most people, Clark Kent is the disguise that Superman wears, and that is how the earlier movies approached the character. The story of his upbringing is glossed over. The fact that he had real human emotions is glossed over. They want the man with his hands on his hips and the cape blowing being him. But if you approach the character as a real character, you can't go there. That is the end of his development, not the beginning of it.

What I see when I watch Man of Steel is a story that I can relate to. It's a story about a guy who has skills that aren't going to make his life easy. He's not going to have the normal life that his parents had. He doesn't know how to make those skills work for him. He doesn't feel comfortable in his body. He doesn't feel comfortable in the world around him. Every time his powers have shown themselves to people around him, they made him look like a fool or an outcast. Even when he saved the bus full of kids, he was smacked down because of it (not literally).
But throughout the movie, he comes to understand who he is as a person. He comes to understand where he comes from. He comes to term with what he wants to be, and he overcomes the fears that he has been living with his entire life. That's the beauty of the scene where he steps out of the fortress and learns how to fly.

He does have a sense of humor, and he does have the warmth that we have come to expect from Clark, but he is presented as a real person. The animated shows don't make him a real person. They show him as someone who is so powerful that there is always a way for him to get out of a situation with his hands clean and the perfect curl on his head. People complained about him killing Zod, because "that's not Superman". But if you put characters into live action, the bar is raised. There was no convenient place for Superman to put Zod, where he could eventually escape and destroy even more buildings later. There was only the sloppy answer. And the thing that made him a hero in that moment was that he was willing to sacrifice his cartoonish ideal version of that outcome for the sake of the innocents. It hurt him, but it had to happen. People keep saying "Just put your hand over Zod's eyes", but he will have to take his hand away at some point.

Going forward, I do expect to see a different version of the character. I'd like to see him lighter and more like what we know, but I don't want them to use the humanity, and I don't want these movies to be a live-action cartoon, like the Marvel movies. If I want a cartoon, there are plenty of them out there. In live action, I want them to take these characters and explore them in a real world, full of flesh and blood people.

I love the arc of Man of Steel. I do see it as extremely optimistic. I just think that it's a more grounded version of that optimism, and it makes the optimism more earned.

I get your criticism... but a lot of it is based on information from other films, shows and comic books, and not the movie itself.

Check out this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_WuvMy2c70g

It's true. Clark doesn't explore his powers until he is pushed into it. He doesn't know how to fly or super speed until he explores those powers in the film. He doesn't super speed to save the guy on the boat in the beginning of the movie, or to save the men from the oil rig. He shows no sign of being able to fly. So, assume that he knows that he is really strong when the tornado comes for Jonathan... what is he supposed to do with that? He can run into the tornado and get swept away with his father, but how will that actually save Jonathan if they both still end up crashing down?

I don't think you're remembering all of Jonathan's scenes. Jonathan knew that Clark was going to grow up to be something special. He knew that Clark was going to change the world, but he didn't know how to help Clark do that. With the kids on the bus, Jonathan didn't believe that Clark should have let them die. He just didn't know what he believed Clark should have done. He says "maybe" Clark should have let them die, but when you watch him say it, you know that he isn't saying it because he believes that Clark should have let them. He's saying it because those kids are safe and in that moment, his son is not. He is scared.

Man of Steel shows Clark just starting to explore his powers, and just starting to understand them after years of trying to ignore them. We're used to seeing the scene with him learning to fly in the corn field, but that never happened here. We're used to seeing Clark speed over to school because he missed the bus, but that never happened here. And that's the problem with the criticism that I see of this movie. People are judging this movie and all of its characters based on what we know from everywhere else. That is a burden that none of the Marvel movies (except maybe Spider-Man) have had. Nobody knew Iron Man before RDJ put on the suit. We knew what Cap looked like, but he wasn't/isn't something that is a part of American culture. Thor... to this day, nobody cares about Thor (part of me felt a cold stare from HunterD_Raven when I typed that, but he hasn't posted on a Sliders board in years, so I don't care!!!).
Batman and Superman don't have the luxury of being introduced to the audience, and people can't put aside what they know about Superman and just watch the movie for what it is. They expect him to do this or that, because it happened on Smallville or in a movie from 1978. Not to sound petty, but that's not fair.

As for coloring... I thought Man of Steel was beautiful. I loved the way it looked, and I didn't like the brighter version online. Look around you right now. The light, the shadows, the colors that you're wearing (if you're anything like me) are not comic book bright. My jeans are muted blue. My skin isn't glowing. My shirt is an earth tone.

Man of Steel reminded me of when I was a kid. The cool breeze that blows through the laundry in the late afternoon, while little Clark is running around in his towel-cape. Maybe it's because the colors remind me of movies from that era too... Field of Dreams, Groundhog Day, even up to Twister and stuff like that. The movie looks like a *film*, not a comic book movie. The visuals in Man of Steel, namely the coloring, instantly brings me back to a hundred spring nights when tornado watches were in effect around my home in Texas, or a cool summer night in New Jersey. I don't know how to explain it, but it was a very evocative film for me. It made me relate to Superman's upbringing more than the overly warm coloring of Smallville did, and far more than I could have if everything was in primary colors.  He would have looked silly wearing his "normal" colors in this movie.

Sorry to ramble. It's one of the few movies that I've seen over and over again, within a short length of time.

I do hope that Superman isn't all grim and menacing in the new movie. The trailers have been all from Batman's point of view, and in Batman's style. So unless this is a Batman movie that features Superman as a side character, I would hope to get more balance from the finished movie.

What we see of Clark's childhood is a lot of him being scared to see what he can do. As a small child, x-ray vision terrified him. As a young teenager, the idea of accidentally killing someone terrified him. He was living in a nightmare world, and there was no waking up. His powers were like an abusive relative for him, so I don't think that he would be trying to see how fast he could go or how strong he was. He would be trying to see how normal he could be, because this wasn't a kid who fantasized about being The Flash. This is a kid who wanted people to *stop* looking at him. I think that he probably had a lonely childhood and didn't play with other kids very much.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4teJPCcJSQ0

In that scene, we see Clark being bullied. He was in the truck, reading a book until he was pulled out by the other kids. Then he didn't say a word to them. They wanted a reaction from him. They wanted the weird loner kid to do something, but he didn't.

While we saw Martha coaching him on how to pull back on the x-ray vision and the super hearing, we know that he didn't discover flying until later. He could control his heat vision as a child (he burned a door knob without blowing it up and burning down his school) We saw him jump, and we know that he was strong, but flying is an extension of his jumping power. Speed is an extension of his strength. From this, we can know that these are two areas where he didn't push himself. He didn't want to know, because the extent of his power scared him since he was a child.

I really don't think that he knows how to super speed at the beginning of the movie. I don't think it just takes more out of him, I think that he is unaware of those elements until he starts to embrace his powers. I think that the oil rig was probably the first time he'd done anything on that scale. The first time he pushes himself is when he learns how to fly. He jumps, and then pushes just that much harder in order to fly.

On another note, I kinda did feel like Clark's secret was a sort of open secret in Smallville. Pete Ross didn't seem like a close friend, but he seemed to know things. The priest didn't seem completely floored by Clark talking to him about being an alien. He swallowed kinda hard, but then moved on.

I look at it this way... If I'm racing my brother down the street, my goal is to run as fast as I need to in order to beat him. Just like when I pick up a phone... Even if I forgot that I can lift 100 pounds or whatever, the amount of strength that I use to life that object is determined by the result I'm getting, not the limit of my ability. You don't usually start off at 100% of anything you do. Running starts at 0mph and works up to whatever you need to get the job done. Technically, most of us are capable of lifting more than our perceived limit. Our brain limits us, but in extreme situations, people have lifted hundreds or thousands of pounds more than they thought they could.

When Clark was learning to fly in MoS, it was an extension of jumping. He jumped, and fell. Then he had to learn how to put that next boost into that jump, which became flight.

Maybe part of his body has a "normal" mode that would allow him to live in a normal world without crushing people and busting down walls, and super strength or speed would require a learned ability to break down the blocks that his brain has in place.

We see him as a boy without control of his hearing or vision,  which makes sense. I mean, you can't normally shut down your ears. The way we use them is different than our arms and legs.

Another interesting article:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/markhughes/ … a1847970bb

That's a big question to answer. I guess it depends on which perspective we're approaching this from.

As a viewer (and as a storyteller myself), success to me means that it's a good movie. Good characters, good acting, good script, good directing. If I walk away from it psyched, that is a successful movie.

I imagine that the studio's view of success would be more about dollars and cents, and what the movie can bring to their future plans. But I do think it would be incredibly hard for this movie to not serve a useful purpose, in terms of setting up future movies.

Let's flash back to before Man of Steel came out. I was not super thrilled with what I was hearing about the movie. We had a British actor playing Clark Kent, which is like an American playing James Bond, I think. We had a script written by someone who had written a comic book in which Superman declares that he's not American, he is a citizen of the world (a phrase that I hate, by the way). We had Zod, who I felt was too familiar and had already been done twice before (on film and on television). Lois Lane not only didn't look like Lois Lane, but she was being played by someone who I didn't feel too excited about. And on top of that, we knew that Jor-El was going to be playing a large role, which looked like another story where Clark is more alien than he is human. The trailers looked beautiful, but I wasn't sure where they were going with the movie.

Obviously, my opinion has changed. The things that I thought they were going to do wrong were creations of my own imagination and in the press. I think that in the end, Man of Steel was a great movie. I think it's a successful movie (in terms of quality and also profit, though it didn't blow people away in terms of money)

Then again, it's also a movie that isn't universally loved. It's sparked a lot of debate and conversation. Does that make it better or worse? I don't know. I think that most good movies are the ones that you can talk for hours about, just like a book. If you're universally loved, you're not taking chances.

I really can't speak about what success means to the studio. So for me, it will mean a good, high quality movie. Something that excites me, both as the kid who grew up with these characters, and as a writer who gets stupid excited over great characters. If I walk out of the movie depressed that I wasn't involved in making the movie, it's a success.

I do expect a Batman movie (and probably another Superman movie at some point), though it's not on the schedule right now. I expect that Affleck will produce/write that, but probably won't direct it (a huge action movie is hard to direct and star in at the same time). I'm open to the idea of messing around with the schedule of releases (if The Flash should disappear, I'd understand that). But I don't think that they will cut way back and go back to square one. Aside from the Justice League movies, Snyder isn't directing the upcoming movies. He's not responsible for Suicide Squad or Wonder Woman, aside from serving as a producer and keeping things from going off the rails in terms of the universe that's been established. I think that the success of those movies will fall on the shoulders of the people who are writing/directing/starring in them. I imagine some will be better than others, but the best they can do is keep going, trying to make each movie the best it can be, and learn whatever lessons they can for whatever sequels are down the road.

One thing that they haven't done, that I know of, is commit to three Aquaman movies, three Cyborg movies, etc., which Marvel has done. It would probably be smarter to see how people respond to characters before doing anything like that. It might be best to explore different characters, like the rumored Booster Gold/Blue Beetle movie. DC/Warner has always kept the door open for other movies along the way, whether they be Batman/Superman sequels, or things like Justice League Dark. I think it's smart to keep their options open and not just make movies with characters that they might want to use in a Crisis movie fifteen years from now.

Did any of that answer any of your questions?

Yeah, my thoughts are layered here.

In regards to HitFix's comments, I just don't believe what they're saying. And I disagree with what they were saying will happen, based on their unsubstantiated rumor/wild theorizing. I have been known to theorize, but their crazy rambling was then picked up by several other websites and reported as a legitimate story about the movie being a failure and Warner Bros. being in the process of major damage control. This hit on some of my issues with the media and how news is reported these days. It's irresponsible.
The sudden surge of negative articles, based on "inside reports" and unsubstantiated rumors feels like the campaign ads we have been seeing on TV. It feels more like Marvel is running a negative press campaign than it does an actual, legitimate story. Marvel may have nothing to do with it, but it feels like a negative ad campaign, rather than legitimate reporting.
So, my frustration with HitFix was on a few levels. First, I strongly disagree with what they said. I don't believe that BvS is going to be a massive flop, and I don't believe that Warner is going to clear their slate because of it. I don't believe that even if BvS was a flop they would overhaul their whole slate, because it would look reactionary, like damage control. After a huge event on the CW, outlining their plan in detail, it would be disastrous for them to rework the slate. And for that reason alone (the CW special, that is), I do not believe that they are as worried about BvS as HitFix made them out to be.
And my other issues have just been about crappy journalism around the internet, resulting from HitFix's (wrong) theorizing. I pointed out that JL is filming on time, just to highlight how wrong I thought HitFix was. They said that JL would be reworked and pushed back to allow for a Batman movie. I disagreed with that. If Warner/DC was as worried about BvS as they say, they wouldn't have scheduled production on JL to start before they know how the BvS dust is going to settle. Bringing production to a screeching halt midway through would be another disaster in terms of publicity.

I don't view the DCU's success as being as connected to the MCU as other people seem to. I think they're different animals, and if you go to the theater to see BvS and expect it to look and feel like a Marvel movie, you will be in for a horrible surprise. People will make that comparison. People will be upset that the movie doesn't look like a cartoon. People will think that it's too dark, if only because it's not all primary colors. I think that until DC establishes what it is and people know what to expect when seeing their movies, and stop seeing them as some sort of slip-up in the coloring department, the movies will be pretty divisive among the general audience. I don't know that these will be the sort of movie that you take your kids to see a hundred times, but it might be the type of movie that a comic book fan goes to see a hundred times. I think that the movies will be judged against the Marvel movies by the press, because they view all comic book stories as being the same (and as being children's stories on top of that), but I personally think that it's a mistake to compare the two worlds.

I really am hoping that the trailers have just been a reaction to the positive feedback about Batman, because they seem to be very Batman-centric. Even Superman in the trailers is only seen from Batman's point of view most of the time. I don't want Superman to be angry and brooding all the time, but I do think that if he is depicted as a person with real human issues, people will probably read that as broody no matter what. I don't know that they will ever win with Superman, because so many people (especially aging critics) really want the Donner version back. That would just be such a huge mistake though.

I confess to a certain distaste towards Ben Affleck as Batman -- because, like Slider_Quinn21, I really hate old people. No, not really. It's just -- I think that only certain types of people should play superheroes. Ben Affleck has a *lot* of skeletons in his closet and it's the sort of thing that really distracts from just seeing a character -- I don't want to look at Bruce Wayne and see a gambling philanderer who passes out in casinos, I don't want to look at Captain America and see a jailbait chasing cokehead. That said, it's not terribly fair in that everyone has lives and dark sides and I find myself giving Robert Downey Jr. and Christian Bale a free pass because their various mental shortcomings are in keeping with the characters they play. For superheroes -- I prefer Tom Welling types, people with extremely low key personal lives that don't get in the way of seeing their character and only their character.

A friend of mine went to high school with Erik Knudsen (Alec from CONTINUUM) and was at a loss to describe anything significant about him whatsoever; he was polite and reportedly liked to sit quietly thinking.

For an older Batman -- I think I would choose someone like Adrian Paul (who is 56). I know nothing about him and never will. :-)

I get the concern. It is valid. But I think we have to see if they can sell the idea. In the comics, Batman's age is questionable. Dick is in his mid-20's at least, but Bruce isn't played as an old man. It is all iffy, so any translation to screen will be weird.

But yeah, if they can't sell Affleck as a functional Batman, then the next Batman movie will have to be someone else taking over for him. Fortunately, that concept wouldn't be outside the boundaries of the source material.

I didn't mean to gang up. This is a worthy discussion, not something that I think you're entirely wrong about. I was just providing a counter point.