Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

On Dinah Drake:

I thought it was really mean spirited to bring Katie Cassidy back and then reveal it was a fakeout. That said, I have no issue with Dinah Drake as the new Black Canary. When ARROW first started, I never really thought Laurel would become Black Canary. She wasn't the Dinah character from the comics. Admittedly, Oliver isn't the character from the comics either, but Laurel was clearly designed to be a TV version of Katie Holmes' Rachel Dawes from BATMAN BEGINS; the lawyer who doesn't realize her playboy childhood friend is the hero of the series.

I couldn't what this Laurel Lance character, this reserved, thoughtful legislator with addiction issues, had to do with the peppy, vivacious, hyperactive Dinah Lance of the comics. In the comics themselves, Black Canary was originally Dinah Drake, but due to the passage of time and DC's desire to keep Black Canary's World War II history intact, they decided to say that the Golden Age Black Canary was Dinah Drake and the current Black Canary was her daughter, Dinah Laurel Lance. The Sara Lance character was close to Dinah from the comics, but even when Laurel became the Black Canary, she was still Rachel Dawes from the Nolan BATMAN movies.

So, I have no issue with Dinah Drake becoming the Black Canary. That was never Laurel's role; even when she put on the costume, it was more about Sara's legacy than Laurel. It's fine. Still wish they hadn't done the fakeout, though.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

What's weird is that the fakeout was a big deal but then they completely spoiled it in the promo.  So I guess it wasn't a big deal?  I dunno.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Maybe they realized how much this was going to piss people off, so they spoiled it in the hopes of letting people get over it before the episode aired.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I enjoyed the Gorilla City episode of Flash, but....

1. Why does Flash always use Cisco to open breaches?  Jesse was able to speed her way to Earth-1.  Barry can too.  Is it just ease?

2. Wouldn't this have been a better reason to unite the four teams?  I know they have a team of speedsters, which is better than basically anyone in the Arrowverse but Kara....but wouldn't it be better than fighting a bunch of aliens that hadn't been mentioned before?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I said the same thing. The gorilla story seems big enough for a crossover and would be a natural fit.

Maybe they needed Cisco to open the breach because they also needed to travel to Canafrica (y'know... Africa, but filmed in Canada)? Given how small Kara's breach opening device was, I don't even get why Jessie and Wally can't hop between worlds to date. It is a faster trip than driving across town. But my guess is that Wally will end up on Earth 2. We probably don't need even more regular speedsters on the show (though I prefer Jessie to Wally)

My question is, why not send Iris to Earth 2 for a while? Speedsters can't travel between worlds, right? So Savitar probably couldn't get to her.

556 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-02-23 10:20:40)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Barry traveled between worlds - that's how he got to Kara's Earth.  Or did that change when they filled all the breaches?  I really have no idea.

Also, I forgot to mention, but the CGI in that episode looked really bad.  I thought the vistas and overheads of Gorilla City looked really cool, but whenever they had a human actor clearly in front of a green screen, it looked terrible.  I know it's a TV budget, but it's odd that they even tried it considering how bad it looked.

I also wondered if Wally would go to Earth-2.  Doesn't really fit with Barry training him, but it seems like it'd solve both problems (they get to be together without her abandoning her dad).

557 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-02-27 17:07:50)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Is there some weird scheduling issue with some of these shows?  Supergirl's Valentine's Day episode aired a week after Valentine's Day (instead of the day before) and a Legends of Tomorrow Christmas episode aired in February.

I've also noticed that there's been a lot less intra-show referencing and any reference to what's happening on the other shows so we know what the timeline is.  And very little of main characters crossing over (Felicity on Flash, Sara on Arrow, etc).  I thought there'd be more of that considering the contracts they were signing.  I wonder if that's all in reaction to what happened with the Arrow flash forward / Zoom / Barry's powers mess.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Don't know. The LoT Christmas thing was really weird. They had to know the schedule up to the crossover at least, right? So there's no way this ever looked like good timing. Maybe they thought it would play well because it's a time travel show, but it really didn't.

The new contracts that people like Katie Cassidy and Wentworth Miller signed appear to be pretty useless. They're not being used across the different shows. They're not kept available when the shows do want to use them (Katie was off working on a movie and had to work out a schedule for her to appear). So I really don't even know what those contracts mean. Were they purely symbolic?

It would be interesting to have Sara around on Arrow, while they're working up to making Dinah the new Black Canary. How would Sara feel about that? Of course, if the LoT writers were the ones scripting it, she'd probably be banging Dinah within a day. I really hate what they've done to the character on that show. They took a legitimately cool female superhero and turned her into a failed James Bond wannabe. They stripped her of what made her interesting and complex. I hate when spin-offs destroy the character that they're spinning off. What's the point?

559 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-02-27 23:33:43)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Informant wrote:

The new contracts that people like Katie Cassidy and Wentworth Miller signed appear to be pretty useless. They're not being used across the different shows. They're not kept available when the shows do want to use them (Katie was off working on a movie and had to work out a schedule for her to appear). So I really don't even know what those contracts mean. Were they purely symbolic?

I don't know, but it sorta sucks.  I was hoping this was going to start a new trend.  I think Cisco and Felicity should be on similar contracts, able to flow in and out of any show that requires them.  Same with Winn if they ever get on the same Earth.  Cisco plays with anyone, and I think Winn could be the same way.  And Felicity works so well with Barry that she should be on there as much as she can.  I also think the Legends could work well flowing in and out of shows, and if the team was more fluid, they wouldn't have to constantly leave people on the ship for no reason.

And I still maintain that if they wanted to go James as Guardian on Supergirl, they should've sent him to train with Oliver's team.  He's even more useless on Supergirl in Season 2 than he was in Season 1.

I don't think speedsters and the Legends metas should be showing up on Arrow because that show needs to be as grounded as it can be, but outside of that, they should be having more fun with their roster.  Instead, they seem to be moving away from that.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I agree. Felicity should definitely be showing up on The Flash way more than she does. Caitlin is the only medical doctor that this superhero team has, right? You'd think that would be more of a thing too. Like Claire on the Netflix Marvel shows. Cisco and Barry feel connected to me, like Oliver and Diggle. I'm not sure that Cisco would be a good choice for floating from show to show... Then again, he could help Curtis figure out the t-spheres.

561 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-02-28 13:50:06)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

They all sorta have their roles.  Felicity is sorta the internet/hacking person.  Cisco is the tech guy.  Caitlin *should* be the doctor (but you're right, no one is using her that way, not even Arrow, really).  Stein should be the physicist.   

Cisco should primarily be on Flash, but he's a fun character and has made a ton of tech for Team Arrow.  Caitlin has never really had much to do so her floating around being the medic when things go bad wouldn't be the worst idea.  Diggle should also stay on Arrow most of the time, but he could've been really valuable on Flash when there weren't a half-dozen speedsters he could've left in charge of defending Central City.

Heck, Wally could be a guy who could come in and save the day when Oliver or the Legends get in over their heads.  He gives the four shows a speedster who could be on loan to save the day in a pinch so that they don't have to always use Barry (Wally could've been the one to cameo on Arrow a couple weeks ago).

But it's not just appearances that are down....even casual mentions seem to be down this year, outside of a handful of fun stuff that I've already mentioned (the Cisco/Gypsy fight and the aforementioned Arrow/Central City stuff).  Those don't require special contracts, but they still seem to be happening less.  I wonder if they were told to focus on their own shows and worry less about fun "ARROWVERSE" moments.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

It's possible. You never know what happens behind the scenes.

I think that Lyla could also be used more. ARGUS should be all over the place, so it would make sense for her to show up more on The Flash, and it wouldn't require any special contracts since she's not a regular.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Two Arrow/Oliver references and one ARGUS/Lyla reference in this week's Flash.

I guess we can be happy. smile

564 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-03-07 13:05:33)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Question - do we think aliens exist on Earth at the same level on Earth One as Earth-Supergirl?  Because we know aliens exist on Earth One, and they're *everywhere* on Supergirl.  Are they all in hiding?

And I felt like they were hitting the immigration a little too on the head on this week's Supergirl.  Not as bad as Arrow but close.

I also wonder why anyone ever tries to kill someone in National City or Metropolis by throwing them off a building.  That won't work....a Kryptonian will catch them smile

Speaking of Earth One - I know we're used to it (with Earth Prime and all), but Team Flash simply called the Arrowverse "Earth One" to simplify things.  Earth Two was called that because it was the only parallel Earth that anyone knew about.  And, yet, Gypsy actually refers to Earth One as Earth One.  Was she just speaking Team Flash's language, or is there some kind of actual parallel universe tracking system and the Arrowverse does just happen to be Earth One?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I assume that Gypsy was just speaking their language.


One of the problems that I had with Supergirl before I gave it up was the alien situation. The idea of Supergirl was that she was an alien and had these great abilities, and it was her duty to do something with them. She and Superman were unique. So, okay, Martian Manhunter exists, but he too is using his powers to help people. Then Mon-El shows up and he's just slacking around, and Supergirl gives him crap about not using his abilities to help people.

This is fine, assuming that these are all of the alien in town. The crashed prison is another story, since those are bad guys. But then we see this alien bar, and it becomes clear that Earth has hundreds or thousands (millions?) or aliens living on it. Many of them have abilities. Most of them are doing nothing to help people, yet Kara doesn't give them crap about it as they're serving her cocktails at the bar.

Just like when Angel introduced a demon bar an had green, horned demons singing karaoke in a crowded room, with absolutely no human being shocked or put off by this, the reality of that world destabilized. Why was Kara such a big deal growing up? Why did she have to hide her identity? What makes her special? (actually, nothing, since she was just copied and pasted from a Clark Kent script). They were trying to play both sides, having Mon-El locked up and everyone wondering what this strange alien was all about, while having thousands of alien roaming around that nobody cared about.

They should have limited the number of aliens on the show. And they really shouldn't use aliens on Arrow, The Flash, LoT or Black Lightning.

A similar problem is with superheroes on Earth One. Legends of Tomorrow presents a story where superheroes have been around decades, but that doesn't really seem to fit the narrative of Arrow and The Flash.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, I think the JSA existed in complete secret.  Much like the JSA in Smallville.  If costumed heroes were no big deal on Smallville, then it wouldn't have taken Clark so long to be used to the idea.  The whole Warrior Angel thing existed because it was a novelty.

I think Supergirl is trying to say that the alien stuff is really recent (this season).  So she had to grow up in secret because no one knew about the aliens.  Now?  I'm not even sure why Kara has to keep her identity a secret anymore....all her friends and family can protect themselves (they're all basically superheroes or spies).  I guess people would be mobbing her all the time, but that's just the life of a celebrity.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Was it just me, or did the CGI on Legends of Tomorrow (primarily Jax/Firestorm) look really...really bad this week?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

The crash was also pretty weak.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

What's funny is that I thought they were being sorta creative with their use of CGI towards the beginning of the episode (just using sounds to reference a T-Rex but then not showing it).  But the whole Firestorm thing looked really low quality - even his flying looked really bizarre.  And then they ended up showing the T-Rex anyway (which looked fine, I guess).

And I'm sure you noticed, once again, that Sara just can't control herself around any attractive female.  She's not just gone from bisexual to lesbian, but she's gone from bisexual to lesbian to lesbian fratguy.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

The Sara thing is really misguided. I get that they want to take the classic womanizer guy character and flip it, but it doesn't really fit her character (who went from a serious relationship with Nyssa to a serious relationship with Oliver). Also, they just push it too much. Dean Winchester is a womanizer, and he may even be a man-slut (undoing some well earned character development from a few years back) but they don't play that note all the time, in every episode.


As Sliders fans, we wouldn't be able to criticize their T-Rex even if it did look horrible. smile


Firestorm has been poorly used this year. He really never uses his powers, which seemed to be expanding last season. I don't even get why Stein or Jax are on the team at this point. Or why Ray didn't just fly out to pick up the ship part.

The more sinister flame on Firestorm was a fun idea, but it did look weird.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, that's the thing with Firestorm.  He's typically too powerful for any single mission, so the writers (and by extension, the crew) are always separating Stein from Jax.  It makes sense sometimes (because Stein is the oldest and worst in combat), but Stein should at least be nearby.  Firestorm could've easily flown out to get the part, and Ray could've accompanied him.  Then they could've sent Sara and Nate into Rip's mind.

There's such little thought put into each plan, though.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

TemporalFlux wrote:

I also can't help but notice that every device H.R. has is shaped like a wand.  He even carries a drum stick around with him (which one could argue is wand-like).  The Flash villain Abra Kadabra still hasn't made an appearance yet...

http://www.thefutoncritic.com/listings/20170308cw05/

Also from Earth 19.... 

Hmm.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

And in that same vein, I don't know if I would've felt it if TF hadn't brought it up but something is off about HR.  He's always pushing people in certain directions....it comes off as just being a good mentor, but it's calculated.  And a lot of time, it puts people in direct danger.  HR training Wally led directly to Savitar getting out.  At the same time, HR possibly manipulated Jesse into fighting Savitar and led to discovering that he can be hurt.

There's something there, and he's obviously not as dumb as he wants people to think.  He is still Harrison Wells, after all.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

He does seem to manipulate people, but then again, that was his pitch for being on the team when he got there. He knows how to push people toward their potential. But there could definitely be a downside. I guess we'll find out. Wells characters usually only last a season as a regular on this show.

I'm trying to figure out which is more annoying:

A. People talking about the Earth-One Harrison Wells as though he were a bad guy, when he died fifteen or twenty years ago and never hurt anyone. Wells was never a villain.

or

B. People talking about Eobard Thawn on LoT as though he still remembers working with Caitlin and Cisco, when he was actually pulled from the night that Barry's mother died and should retain none of those other memories.


Bonus option:

C. Diggle's Spartan helmet, meant to conceal his identity, having lights on the inside which highlight his identity!

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, I don't think we knew enough about Earth One Wells to judge him at all.  Based on HR and Harry, he was probably still a smug a-hole smile

As far as Eobard goes, I still don't really get it.  If Eobard never existed, then Earth One Wells should still be alive.  No one was there to manipulate Barry into being the Flash early.  Basically nothing from season one should've happened.  But they all did.  Y'all have tried to explain it, but I still don't get it.

Helmets....they're a problem.  It's why Spider-Man is always taking off his mask.  It's why the Power Rangers movie seems to be full of shots of the Rangers with the face-part of their masks removed.  People think that if we can't see the actor's faces, we won't understand what emotions they're showing.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I think the Eobard thing has been really confused.

Barry goes back in time and stops his mother from being killed
Eobard is kept in a cage during Flashpoint
Barry releases Eobard
Eobard kills Barry's mother (both Flashpoint Barry and Flashpoint Eobard vanish for some reason)

Everything is presented as going mostly back to normal...

Yeah, I don't get it. They even failed to bring it back to what we saw in the season 1 finale, where Barry warned himself away from saving his mother. It's a mess, but I guess we're just supposed to go with it.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I'm just accepting that Reverse Flash exists in a form exactly where he was at the end of the season one finale.  Nothing we saw was ever erased.  And just moving on smile

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Sigh. Yeah.

Legends of Tomorrow ruins everything! Are we supposed to believe that in the Arrow universe, all of those historical events are now different? Or are the Legends responsible for creating the multiverse?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Informant wrote:

Sigh. Yeah.

Legends of Tomorrow ruins everything! Are we supposed to believe that in the Arrow universe, all of those historical events are now different? Or are the Legends responsible for creating the multiverse?

It's all set-up for DC's greatest idea.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-2HUnC-7QBDM/UHnyHFCe1bI/AAAAAAAAEVk/cr1X5Qwjlv4/w1200-h630-p-k-no-nu/Hollyweird+Living+Jay's+Comicbook+WTF+Moments+-+Superboy+Prime+Retcon+Punch.jpg

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/50eca855e4b0939ae8bb12d9/t/53b9db52e4b01e06b37da483/1404689237150/?format=750w

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well as far as the Legends goes, I'm guessing Rory's always had a statue in DC.  So in Arrow/Flash, we're seeing the "Final version" of whatever the Legends end up doing?

I don't know.  I still think Legends should've been a one-season show, and it should've moved to an anthology series after that (TF's idea, I believe).  That would've been better.

And I'm surprised TF hasn't patted himself on the back for his Abra Kadabra prediction yet smile

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I agree about Legends.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

According to Matt Letscher on Twitter, the Thawne on LEGENDS OF TOMORROW is from just after the Season 1 finale of THE FLASH. He's a a time remnant. I think that makes sense -- but some of the dialogue in "Legion of Doom" is oddly sequenced.

The sequence of events, according to Letscher, is this: Eobard travels back in time to kill Nora Allen. Barry prevents this, but after imprisoning Thawne for months, Barry releases him to let him murder Nora after all. Then, this Thawne resumes the Season 1 course of events: after killing Nora and speeding off, he discovers that he has lost his connection to the Speed Force and everything unfolds as we saw in Season 1, but with the addition that after Eddie shoots himself, Eobard attempted to escape his erasure by hiding in the Speed Force.

The problem with this is that in "Legion of Doom," Eobard's dialogue is specifically: "My ancestor killed himself in an effort to erase my very existence. The Flash pulled me from the timeline. He held me captive for months and when I finally got loose, I found myself pursued by something."

This dialogue seems to suggest that the time wraiths started coming after Thawne immediately after "Flashpoint" in 2000 as opposed to coming after him in 15 years later after Eddie commited suicide -- but given that Thawne refers to both "Flashpoint" and "Fast Enough," we have to take that to mean that after "Flashpoint," he resumed his Season 1 role.

However, it would all make a lot more sense if Eobard's dialogue in "Legion of Doom" hadn't referred to "Flashpoint" at all and simply said, "My ancestor killed himself in an effort to erase my very existence. I tried to escape into the Speed Force, but I found myself pursued by something."

I think the writers wanted to find some way to refer to connect this Thawne to when we'd last seen him in "Flashpoint," hence the awkward reference, but this Thawne is clearly meant to be the post-2015 Thawne of "Fast Enough," not the 2000 Thawne of "Flashpoint." Maybe the dialogue is strange because as a time traveller, Thawne has a weird sense of cause and effect?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

The Flash musical:

No. Please stop. Make this episode go away. Undo it, undo it! It is so painfully bad.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Don't worry, Barry will go back in time and undo it (and everything else) at the end of the season.  As he is prone to doing...

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

He must have already done that, because any timeline where that episode exists is the wrong timeline.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Eh, it was dumb, but I thought they did it in an interesting way.  I enjoyed the "Amazo-ness" of Music Meister's "plan" (the fact that I have to put quotation marks around two words probably isn't great, but you know what I mean), and I thought both shows meshed really well together.  I wish they'd have Winn meet Cisco (he did reference that they'd be best friends), but Cisco was definitely more Vibe than tech guy this episode.

I thought the actors playing Winn and Cisco actually performed way better than I thought they would, and I'm also glad they brought back Stein and Merlyn since their actors have musical backgrounds.

The music was meh.  I'm not huge on musicals, and it's weird that Kara and Barry are both apparently huge on musicals since neither has mentioned it before this week as far as I can tell.  And while I think Kara and Barry have great chemistry together, it's also a bit weird that they're always talking about how great friends they are when they've spent about a day and a half together?

It's also a bit weird that Supergirl had a huge moment with Mon-El on the Flash.  The crossovers are fun, but having key information about one character on another show is just weird to me.  I'm sure they'll include it in the "previously on..." in next week's Supergirl, but it's still odd.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I didn't mind Kara when she appeared in the other crossover, but with this one, I don't think the crossing over worked well. Both she and Barry were acting like mentally ill children, which got old fast. It seems like they're just trying to give Barry and Kara the old Barry/Felicity dynamic, but it's not working. And I don't get Barry making comments about Superman. He knows nothing about Superman. At all.

The cast is talented, no doubt. Jeremy Jordan (Winn) is a Broadway actor, so he didn't really surprise me (I watched a musical movie with him on Netflix not too long ago). And Carlos Valdez does a lot of singing, so I expected him to do okay too. The thing is... it just didn't fit this show.

Yes, Grant can tap dance. No, Barry can't. Seeing him do it just removed me from that scene.

The thing about musicals is that the music has to be an incredibly vital part of the characters. This is their dialogue, revealing something about their inner selves. This episode only had two original songs, which means that most of the music was pasted into it. You would never copy and paste dialogue from an old movie, into your own script. It doesn't work. It never works. Yet, people keep doing it!

The Buffy musical worked despite the fact that most of the cast couldn't sing, because it was still such a big character exploration. This episode didn't work despite the fact that the cast could sing, because it had nothing to do with the characters. It was a waste of time. (and why would Barry's own mind create a world where Joe and Stein are a couple? That's just... weird. And I'm not sure why he'd include Malcolm at all. Have they ever even met?)


Blah. I hated this episode. Only one of the original songs was remotely good. The Super Friends song was so forced and contrived, it was painful to watch. On top of that, the Supergirl world just doesn't mix well with the Arrowverse. It's silly, like Lost in Space meets Angel. Maybe next time they want to bring Kara into one of the Arrowverse shows, they should just add Power Girl to the mix.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Apparently Rachel Bloom wrote the SuperFriends song.  So take with that what you will.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I've said before in response to Informant's distaste for SUPERGIRL: Informant clearly has a genetic condition that makes him incapable of having fun. And I stand by that. That said, the musical episode BLOWS. Oh my God, it was so clumsy for all the reasons Informant notes (listless characterization, songs that don't connect to the arcs and were written for an entirely different project and purpose, nonsensical guest-stars in a dreamscape that's supposed to be Kara's and Barry's yet features people they've never met).

I think the problem here is clearly scheduling: if you were going to have SUPERGIRL and FLASH crossover again, this time, you'd want Melissa Benoist visiting Central City, meeting Gustin's supporting cast and getting into that mix.

Unfortunately, SUPERGIRL, transferring from CBS, didn't have the shutdown days built into its schedule the way all the other CW superhero shows had set up in order to give actors days where production on their home show would suspend so they could film on other shows and facilitate the crossovers.

This is why Supergirl was reduced to a near-cameo role in the last two episodes of the "Invasion" crossover; Melissa Benoist had to run back to the set of SUPERGIRL, and the same thing seems to have happened here again where Supergirl's scenes are with her unconscious, in an isolated dreamscape and briefly at STAR Labs. There's a real sense of filming everything with Benoist inside 1 - 2 days much in the same way Michael Rosenbaum reprised his role as Lex for a single day of filming on SMALLVILLE's finale and only had two scenes.

So we end up with a script where the writers are struggling to make a whole scene out of Benoist's limited availability and we end up with this awkward mess. The use of Barrowman and Garber strikes me as the creators trying to give a crossover feel to a crossover where the central guest from another show, Kara, isn't even in it all that much.

The producers say they've worked in shutdown days for SUPERGIRL next year.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Temporal Flux said awhile back and well before this week's LEGENDS:

TemporalFlux wrote:

Hadn't really put too much thought into Legends, but something clicked with me this morning.  I think I see where they're going with Snart.

So Flashpoint Thawne is after the spear of destiny so that he can use it to alter reality and will himself back into existence.  Meanwhile, Heatwave is hallucinating Snart speaking to him; but it's the classic Snart who is evil.

I think Heatwave is going to end up with his hands on the spear of destiny; and either on purpose or by accident, he's going to will Snart back into existence.  However, it's going to be a slightly different outcome than what Thawne is seeking.  The Snart that Heatwave would bring back is not going to be the original one who sacrificed himself. The Snart that comes back is going to be whatever perception of Snart Heatwave had in his mind.  It could be a full reset button with no hint of goodness left in Snart; he would only be the cold calculator with a fierce sense of loyalty (as he should be).

Temporal Flux proves to be mostly right! I love Temporal Flux. :-)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I'm still more impressed that he figured out from a pair of glasses that they were going to use Abra Kadabra from HR's world.

But, yes, TF is basically psychic at this point smile

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Y'all are holding the Flash to a strong sense of continuity when it comes to a fantasy inside of a CW show smile

I think this episode should've been non-canonical.  I think it'd have been better if they just said "hey, we have a lot of musically-talented people, and let's have some fun."  I'd have preferred they did it on Legends of Tomorrow so they could waste one of their episodes, but it made the most sense on Flash.  If it was non-canonical, there'd be no reason to judge it.

But since it is canon and is supposed to exist inside the story, let me do my best.  Most of it can be explained away with "it's a fantasy."  Kara is a human in the fantasy, and Mon-El is a human in the fantasy.  So why are Joe and Stein together when they're both heterosexual in real life?  Because the "musical" wanted two talented singers in the same scene.

Why is Merlyn there?  I think the better question is why Mon-El is Merlyn's son, when Iris is also Joe's daughter.  Everyone seems to have the same familial connections except for that one.  But the answer is that John Barrowman can sing and Kevin Sorbo can't.

Has Merlyn met Barry?  I can't think of a specific scene that they've had together, but Merlyn was basically the arch-nemesis of Team Arrow for years.  Oliver never met Zoom, but he still mentioned him at Laurel's grave.  And even if Barry didn't know Merlyn personally, he'd still be aware of him.  He was still a prominent figure in Starling City and a known Criminal.  And since he's playing a gangster, him showing up in Barry's fantasy would've made as much sense as anyone else.  Barry doesn't run into a lot of gangsters smile

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Just like Gorilla City could've been a much better 4-way crossover, I almost feel like next week's Legends could've been a much more fun way of doing things.  They could've basically done the Crime Syndicate of America and done "evil" versions of all four shows, with the Legends fixing things in their episode.

And there's one thing in the episode that's really gonna bother Informant from what I've seen.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I think I know what you're referring to. We'll see how that goes. ☺

It would be cool to have a crossover with bad versions of people up against their good counterparts. I think that Harry Wells could have a double on Kara's Earth, so that would be an easy crossover. And Kara could exist on Earth 1 or Earth 2. It would be fun to play with alternate versions of these characters.


Arrow was interesting this week. His "secret" was predictable, but it adds a weird, disturbing wrinkle to the character. I still don't think they really thought through Evelyn's arc, because her character makes zero sense. You could say the same about Adrian, but we can chalk that up to "crazy".
Is Felicity's hacker group providing Adrian with information? He seems to know things that no amount of research could tell him, and Felicity may have given them a backdoor into her system without realizing it. Her pain/anger could have resulted in a major slip on her part.

Overall, season 3 is turning out okay. I think that Curtis is still struggling to find his place as a character. He may be more useful on Legends or the new Black Lightning show (not because he is black!).

Talia should have her ass kicked by Nyssa.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Also, I am capable of having fun! I just have a hard time enjoying low quality material. I have an analytical mind, and "fun" doesn't automatically mean half-assed or poor quality.


So stop cyber bullying me!!!

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Informant wrote:

It would be cool to have a crossover with bad versions of people up against their good counterparts. I think that Harry Wells could have a double on Kara's Earth, so that would be an easy crossover. And Kara could exist on Earth 1 or Earth 2. It would be fun to play with alternate versions of these characters.

Exactly, but I might take it a step further and do something like Enterprise's "In a Mirror, Darkly" episodes.  In LoT, the Legion gets the spear, and they change reality to their desires.

Then, the next week of shows takes place entirely in the "Doomworld" where each hero is essentially muscle for one of the Legion.  Barry works for Thawne as a thug/errand boy, whatever.  And either Team Flash is entirely evil, or Barry is tracking down "hero" versions of Caitlin / Cisco / Firestorm etc.  Oliver is working for Darhk or Merlyn (either of them as Ra's).

And instead of having to fight "our" versions of the characters, we just see an adventure from these dark versions of the characters we know. 

They could either do this with crossovers (where Barry and Oliver have to team up to take down the remaining heroes), or it could be done entirely separately.  The finale would be on Legends, where the team shows up to fix things (they were in the Vanishing Point so they were protected), and they have to fight the Legion (and dark versions of Barry/Oliver) to get the spear back.

I think it'd be more fun than fighting a bunch of random gray aliens smile

(Supergirl could appear to either show that her universe is also affected - so an episode her her basically running National City as a goddess - or not be included)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

That'd be cool.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

It'd be fun to re-write the opening bits of each show.

My name is Oliver Queen.  After five years in Hell, I returned home with one goal: Revenge.  By day, I am CEO of Queen Weapons Technologies, but at night, I am someone else.  I am something else.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I want to take this moment to express my utmost sympathy for Informant's medical situation (the man can't have fun!) and to propose a Kickstarter where half the proceeds will go to further research on Informant's genetic disorder and the other half will go to paying for Informant and Slider_Quinn21 to go to that movie theatre where they serve you dinner. We should convince them to record their entire conversation for sharing on this forum.

As for Oliver's big revelation -- I think there is some truth to it, but it is not as simple or straightforward as Prometheus would have Oliver think. Very simply: killing is a highly enjoyable and pleasurable activity -- which is to say that killing in combat triggers adrenaline and serotonin in the brain and creates euphoria. Some war veterans have described a certain peaceful serenity in combat situations as they become acclimatized to violence while others find it traumatizing and disturbing; I think Oliver is more on the former end of that scale than the latter.

So, saying Oliver likes killing is the equivalent of saying I like sugar; desiring it doesn't mean acting on it and Oliver has gone many years without killing people with no psychological withdrawal for it. He's not the Punisher, who is actually addicted to killing.