Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant (Page 17 of 18)

Thank you for your thoughts.

I just watched the Star Trek TNG 30th Anniversary panel, with most of the cast members, and Patrick Stewart said something pretty relevant to our conversation. He was talking about how fans react to the show, and connect with things that become really meaningful and personal for them, and he said that when those fans ask him questions about those things, he worries that they will walk away disappointed in the actors because they don't share that specific connection. They have an entirely different relationship and connection to that show, and he worries that the fans will be let down by that, or by the fact that he sometimes can't remember what they're talking about.

I think he articulated what I was trying to say (perhaps better than I did). The show means a lot to them and it was a huge part of their lives, and they love that fans connect to different things, but they simply cannot relate to the show on the same level. It represents something entirely different to them, and there is a chance that fans will be let down, or even insulted by that, but it's unavoidable.

Also, Gates McFadden and Marina Sirtis totally almost got into a fight.

I think they're trying to do a Civil War situation, but like that, this could all be fixed pretty quickly if everyone gets their head out of their asses.

The Flash finally delivered a solid episode this season! While I still have some questions (like why they couldn't use a portal opener like the one they gave Kara, since their portals were working fine. Did they give her the only one?), and the overall resolution was iffy, the drama of the episode was pretty interesting. I remember reading a Flash story at some point, and Wally West was thrown off of a bridge. It was interesting because he was helpless, and there was no way to speed up the fall. He was experiencing every second as though it were in slow motion. I always thought that was interesting. From our POV, the Flash is just a streak, but he takes each step just like the rest of us. I've always wondered what it was really like for him to run from Central City to Star City. Does it feel like it takes forever for him, or does the speed force carry him like a current?

So yeah, this type if episode is one that I find interesting. I like seeing a different way of telling stories, using his unique abilities.

Found this interesting in the Deadline Hollywood article:

So if I’m reading that right, the DC shows may all be renewed, but it looks like some will have smaller episode orders.  The obvious candidate for a cut is Supergirl; a smaller order meaning that they can continue the Supergirl / Legends wheel format they just tried out.

I'm really enjoying all the shows this season. SUPERGIRL's been a delight with Kryptonian sleeper warriors, Alex dealing with her breakup and the crossover was amazing. THE FLASH has been terrific in giving our heroes a villain who can outthink them at every turn. LEGENDS has been a revelation and done the impossible by making Wally West a viable character and finding a way to humanize Damien Darhk to the point where he regrets Season 4 of ARROW as much as Stephen Amell and Informant.

ARROW has continued with its return to street-level action and had Oliver progress while still having the same flaws.

I thought the argument between Oliver and John this week in "Brothers in Arms" was incredible. Both make completely valid criticisms of each other's leadership, but both refuse to acknowledge their own flaws. Oliver dismisses John's point that his leadership style is fundamentally alienating while John ignores how he hid his medical problems from the team and endangered all of them. But John presents Oliver's human resource failures as tactical disasters when they weren't. Oliver portrays John's secrets as facilitating a criminal takeover of the city rather than the moral failures they actually were.

Oliver calling out John for killing Andy was truly cruel when Andy was declaring his intention to murder John's wife and child when John shot him. John was out of line to say that Diaz had won the city because of how Oliver had handled the recruits. In the end, neither are happy with themselves for how they've steered their teams but direct their frustration at each other rather than inwardly.

I also really like how, on THE FLASH, Iris has remained in charge at STAR Labs, something that I didn't entirely notice until Ralph snapped at Iris that she contributes nothing and she replied that she is the leader of the team. Candice Patton has such a gentle screen presence that it was only then that I realized she's been giving orders since the Season 4 premiere; it always felt like her instructions were suggestions that the others found so instantly clear in their logic and purpose that they would follow them.

On one level, it's trying to hammer the female lead into a meaningful role outside being the damsel in distress of Season 1. On another, this decision really works; Iris isn't a scientist or a fighter, but she is an excellent human resources person who grasps each team member's abilities and can distribute and direct them well, giving them the right attitude and direction for their skills and body of knowledge and allowing their specialities to inform her choices. And it really puts Oliver and John's leadership to shame. Slider_Quinn21 is constantly wondering why Team Arrow doesn't call Barry; I wonder why they don't call Iris.

I think the Iris stuff makes a lot of sense.....but I don't think they handled it very well.  Yes, it's been constant, but I don't think it was organically sewn into the material.  I think it's a great fit, and I think they could've easily sold it.  But, instead, she was just the leader without any on-screen discussion of it.

It's all sorta strange to me because I think her story could be really strong.  She wants to be a reporter, but she also wants to be a part of the team.  She sees all these people around her getting powers and taking charge of their lives, and she's just stuck in this weird limbo.  She got a taste of running the team during Flashpoint, and she got more when Barry was gone.  It's good, but it doesn't feel earned.

I thought the fight between Oliver and Diggle was cruel, but I think that was the point.  Oliver and John were so angry at each other that they weren't trying to make good arguments - they were going for the lowest of low blows.  There's a pause before Oliver says the Andy line, and I think it's supposed to indicate that Oliver is thinking of the worst thing he can say (and then he does).

I think getting Oliver to a point where he's truly alone after building this strong family is a really cool idea, but it also doesn't really feel that earned.  I think all these grievances are petty (even the injury to Rene) and could easily be worked out if they just dropped their egos for a second and had a real conversation.

Well, there were tons of ways they could've done it and made an emotional impact.  What if Joe insisted that she be the leader because he felt sorry for her.  And then, it turns out, she's really good at leadership, and she earns their respect.  Instead, it reminds me a little of the storyline on the Office where Nellie decided that she was the manager, sat in the chair, gave orders, and everyone just sorta went along with it.

They obviously put some thought because she makes sense in the role she's in.  But they apparently just decided to not explore the emotional side of it for whatever reason.

Well, I wouldn't go that far.  I think the villain this year is a nice change of pace, and I think he's a lot better than Zoom or Savitar.  What bothers me about him is that I don't really get a feel for what his actual motives are.  He seems like he wants to change the world for the better, and he was only fighting Flash because he stood between him and his goal.  That's certainly what his wife seems to think, and even though he's obviously moved beyond that, it's unclear what his *new* motives are.  Does he just want to prove that he can beat Flash now?  Once he does, does he have a goal?

Yeah, I'm not sure what to make of this. It seems to undo the point of point of bringing him in for Thea's send-off.

Yeah, it's weird. Despite the fact that Colton has never been the strongest actor on the show, Roy Harper is a big character in the Green Arrow history. Having him come back could be really cool, especially if he is Oliver's only sidekick (they could have Diggle pursue another plot on his own for a while. Be the main character in his own arc for a bit). I just don't know what this means for the happy ending that Roy was supposed to give Thea (that sounded wrong).

It would be cool if he came back as Thea's husband though. He could be an actual part of Oliver's family. Brother in law to Felicity. Uncle to William. Brother to Oliver, though they should probably have some issues. Roy has been on his own for a while now, after all. He's probably not going to love taking orders.

The writers once said that they'd never kill Thea. I hope they stick to it. I wonder if Willa will appear every now and then. It might depend on whatever her next project is. I think they could pull off the marriage thing, if Roy had a good reason for coming back. Maybe they could have him going off to see her from time to time, while returning to help Oliver take down the evil former sidekicks.

Ooh. The writers are on thin ice as it is. Making Roy the villain could be a mistake. Don't get me wrong, it could work, but it would be risky.

Beth Schwartz has been named as the showrunner for Arrow's 7th season.  Wendy Mericle is gone and Marc Guggenheim will remain as a consultant.

Not sure what to think yet. The show desperately needs someone new running things, so this could be good. I just hope that the show can get back to it's hard-hitting roots. The show should be the dark, gritty series in the Arrowverse, but it hasn't been that in a while. I know Schwartz has been working on the show for a long time, but her other credits include Hart of Dixie, and Brothers and Sisters, so we'll see how this turns out.

I had exactly the same reaction and I thought it was the greatest moment of the season for that moment of shocking hilarity, especially as a viewer who hadn't quite noticed that Iris had become the leader of the team.

Iris becoming the leader took place offscreen during the hiatus between Seasons 3 and 4. THE FLASH has, I think, always struggled with that; the resolution to the Season 1 finale cliffhanger was muddled by the odd choice to open Season 2 with a dream sequence and put the resolution in a flashback. Season 3's "Flashpoint" was a clumsy mess.

However, the theme of how everyone at STAR Labs is the Flash was a key theme of Season 1, particularly with Barry saying to Cisco and Caitlin that "we were all struck by lightning" and Iris, being the one to give the Flash his public reputation, was a key part of building the Flash myth in Central City.

Oliver being confronted by the Hood bellowing at him, "YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY!" was a very gripping moment and you know how much I love stories where characters are having conversations with themselves via hallucinations.

I kinda like the old Arrow costume.

The Flash has failed to make me care enough this year, honestly. It feels like the Thinker is a drawn out plotline, rather than a compelling character. I'm honestly more interested in whatever's happening to Harry at this point. And Killer Frost. Heck, I think I'd be cool if they just forgot about the Thinker and focused on the core group for a while. Maybe explore the leadership dynamics and explain what that's all about.

An Ralph... I'm pretty sure that I wasn't supposed to be cool with him dying, but I am. Even though they conveniently kept his body alive. That whole character has been a mess.

I like the idea of Oliver going back to basics. I would be cool with him working with Roy next year, and that being it. Maybe even leave Star City for the season, on some mission with Roy. But I doubt that will happen.

I thought last week's episode, focusing on Whatshisname and Laurel was pretty weak. I don't think they've succeeded at making him a worthy villain, or an interesting character, so I just thought it was a waste of an hour. I'd rather actually *see* Oliver getting back to basics. Or even Diggle settling into ARGUS.  Instead, we focused on a boring villain trying to earn some sort of... thing. And Felicity worryin' 'bout her man, who dun been gone all night. And Curtis, who really doesn't need to be on the show anymore, so why is he always on the show?

Maybe it's because the Thinker is a super evil genius, playing 7-D chess, and yet I still have no idea what his plan actually is. It seems like the writers are making it up as they go along, making it hard to sell the idea of the Thinker planning it all ahead.

I think the other bus meta was in the pipeline when Devoe took the place, so he is dead too. They just undersold that part.

Unless there was another one that I forgot about.

well no way would i go to team flash for help, you would think with the team all having powers it would be a safe place but barry/iris clueless leadership and zero gameplan has got every one they tried to save killed.  Even the annoying elongated man(got to give the actor credit he is spot on the comic book version).

also the fact that legends, team arrow, supergirl, or even superman could potentially help makes team flash look even stupider

This week's Flash was... problematic for me. (though I hate the word "problematic" these days)

First of all, I think that the Thinker's endgame seems like an afterthought. It feels like they didn't think up his big plan until they absolutely needed to, and now that they have it, it doesn't even make sense. How does anyone come to the conclusion that less intelligence/technology will result in a more peaceful people? You could say that it's like arguing that less guns would result in less crime, and I guess people make that assumption all the time, so the Thinker isn't beyond the realm of normal people. However, history proves that humanity managed to be plenty violent before modern technology came along. And if you remove intelligence and cause people to operate purely on instinct and survival, things would be a lot worse.

But his real plan isn't to make humanity "better", it's just to rule over them. I still don't know how this makes sense. And rather than spend a season showing us the way in which this plan works, we have four episodes to figure out the mess of his logic, after spending all season spinning his wheels for... reasons. I'm not even sure how all of the bus metas were necessary. Is he planning a production of Fiddler on the Roof after he takes over the world? Couldn't he have really thrown off Team Flash by just not caring about a few of those bus metas?

Marlize is kind of a mess of a character as well. She now seem to be a more sympathetic character, who isn't totally on board with the plan. But earlier this season, she was just fine with all sorts of horrible things.

When The Flash, Vibe and Gypsy went to stop the Thinker and Caitlin showed up with the freeze gun... how? She can neither vibe her way there, nor super speed her way there. How did she get there?

I know we're not really supposed to question a lot of these things. It's a silly show and we should just go with it. However, I think the show would be so much better if the writers thought things through. These problems aren't hard to fix.

Weekly recap:

Supergirl - Supergirl definitely tries harder than the other shows to create effective drama between the characters.  I think I care more about side characters like Winn than I do about, say, Caitlin.  I still think there's zero reason for James to be on this show, though.  Maybe move him and Guardian to Legends?  Worked for Wally.

Flash - I do think Thinker's plan is dumb, and I don't think Marlize would go with it.  You'd think they'd want to go the other direction - and make everyone smart.  But if they're going to just use technobabble, they should just lobotomize everyone into being less violent.

I'm still waiting for the real villain to be someone other than the Thinker, but I don't know if that's going to happen.  I also thought that maybe Marlize was dead after the attack and Thinker re-animated her.  It'd explain why she's been inconsistent and controllable, but the Weeper tears doesn't really work with that explanation.

Arrow - I think you're right....do these shows not talk to each other anymore?  Both Arrow and Flash have the same situation with the same exit.  I think Arrow's was a cooler twist in a vacuum, but it was definitely muted by the fact that Flash already did it.  And so on both shows, the show had people put on trial and helped out with a guy in disguise.  And then no one seems to care about it anymore.  Will the news openly refer to the Green Arrow as Tommy Merlyn now?  Did the CCPD never follow up on DeVoe, who was mysteriously alive again and then disappeared?  Didn't they bury a body?  Did no one exhume it?

Although I read a rumor (completely unsubstantiated) that they might try and do the Supermax idea on Arrow next year.  I don't know if it's true or if it'd work, but I think it'd be a really cool way to do it.  I don't know if it'd work better as a movie (where the budget / special effects would be better) or in the Arrowverse (where we care about the character more), but if they aren't going to make the movie, it'd be a pretty great idea to try it in season 7.

Well, if Oliver is in prison, it could explain why Roy comes back (to fill his shoes....especially if the team is still broken by then). 

I actually wouldn't mind it, if William didn't exist.  Put Oliver in prison and expose him for all his crimes.  Yes, he's done good, but he's broken the law.  He has to face the public as the man he actually is.  Then he's in prison and (EVENT) happens that forces him to break out.  He'd have to team up with various metas that the show has created.  It could be stretched out with something like Prison Break as a template.

Or they could try and just do it as a mini arc.  Especially if they could somehow air it with limited commercials as a sort of "movie event" - could be cool.

That'd be cool.  Maybe the first half of the season is him doing missions for the Suicide Squad and making allies and enemies.  The second half of the season would be the breakout.

I don't think the writers are responsible for the Council of Wells stuff.  I'm guessing it's Tom Cavanagh driven.  Either he's asking for opportunities to be funny/goofy, or he's being funny/goofy enough that the sleep-deprived writing staff thinks everyone would enjoy it as much as they do.

I don't think it's funny either.  In theory, it could be a cool idea, but it doesn't work on any level for me.

Have they considered trying to reach out to an alternate DeVoe?  Because that would've been interesting if they want to get in his head.  Or is the assumption that all his "doubles" would be evil?

To be fair, we've only met two evil Laurels....and one is from a universe where all the good guys are bad.  So, technically, 2/3 of the Laurels we've seen are "good"

But, yeah, that's an interesting idea to keep Laurel involved.

If Team Flash is going to reach out to anyone....why not Kara?  She could fly into space and destroy the satellites and is completely organic.  She also might be invulnerable to DeVoe, who would have no access to Kryptonite as far as I know (it shouldn't be on Earth 1 and DeVoe can't travel to parallel Earths as far as we know).