Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I can only think of one way their social distancing plan might work in the Arrowverse; and even it wouldn’t work well over a long term.

They could have each show rewind with characters having to re-live a past season; and then they could deep fake the hell out of it to make it new.  It would be a kind of “meet me half way” between live action and animation; but faster and less expensive than animation.

For instance, the only person in the room filming this Forest Gump scene was Tom Hanks; but it looks like a fully populated scene

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7e/0a/78/7e0a78a2fb437d657212ab96e5ec61d4.jpg

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, I can think of another way to make it work - bring a plague into the Arrowverse.  Make it an event.  Someone, a minor villain maybe, comes in and spreads some sort of metahuman virus (so wearing a mask wouldn't help and where Kara/Barry could even get it at super speed).  Suddenly, the whole Arrowverse has it.  All the shows can be about how you can be a hero without touching someone.  How you can stay connected while apart.  Stuff like that.

But even then I don't think it'd work.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, I am a big fan of DOCTOR WHO audio plays. Maybe the next season of the Arrowverse has no visuals, is audioplay only, while commercial ads display throughout the entire one hour timeslot.

But I like TF’s idea of Barry mastering Zoom.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I don't understand the Crisis/Post-Crisis changes.  So I get that Barry accidentally threw Pied Piper's boyfriend into some sort of weird "unstuck" situation...but did Team Flash never look into helping him?  Barry doesn't remember that timeline, but he was still Barry.  Hartley hates Flash, and helping him clears things back up.  So did Barry not even try?  He didn't have Nash, but Barry wouldn't just abandon someone.

Was Post-Crisis Team Flash less helpful?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Flash should have been the hardest hit by the Crisis changes because it was so dependent on parallel worlds.  But the one thing that seems to be important here is that the post-Crisis Team Flash never had a Harrison Wells.  Ever.  Until now.

All of the Harrison Wells in the series were parallel universe doppelgängers that now no longer ever existed.  Cisco and Caitlyn would have been left to figure everything out alone.  This also brings up an interesting question about the Savitar saga (if it still happened) - who died in Iris’s place?  It wasn’t a Harrison Wells.

Another big change post Crisis - Barry never had Jay Garrick.  All of the season two Zoom story is out the window; but the valuable thing lost is that later discussion Jay had with Barry about time travel.  Without Jay to explain it to him, Barry would have likely damaged time more severely before he stopped; and as a result, Barry would feel even more guilty about it.  Barry may have been so consumed that he couldn’t face past mistakes.

But I believe that’s the issue - post-Crisis Barry was missing some important support structures that taught him lessons and helped him grow.  I don’t know how much they’ll delve into it, but I think our Barry is a lot more mature than the post-Crisis version he replaced.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

That's what been sorta frustrating about "Earth Prime" - it existed and obviously had deviations...but the deviations don't matter because everyone that matters (sorry Pied Piper) has had their memory of Earth 1 (or 36) corrected.

It would be fun to do a "Tales from Earth Prime" episode to show how things were different.  How did Kara and Flash meet?  It can't be the same way it was before.  I assume Superman would've been a part of every "crossover event" and probably a couple of other events. 

Supergirl is another big change.  Some of their storylines were done with the idea that they were on their own.  Did all her storylines happen on Earth Prime?  I mean, heck, is the Obsidian Platinum stuff happening in Central City or Gotham?  It doesn't seem to be happening if it is.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

https://ew.com/tv/the-blacklist-season- … -shutdown/

THE BLACKLIST is going to complete its Season 7 finale with animation.

Will Bruce Timm be handling the Arrowverse shows next year?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Somebody showed me this deep fake - I think they could pull it off for real!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8OJnkJqkyio

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

ireactions wrote:

Will Bruce Timm be handling the Arrowverse shows next year?

This isn't actually a crazy thought.  Well, the Timm stuff could be.  But I think with comic books, you could essentially do whatever you want.  We've seen reality-altering things before.  Maybe someone changes Earth Prime from 3 dimensions to 2.  Everyone is affected (and maybe no one notices).

But this would actually both work and could be pulled off on Legends.  I don't think they'd miss a beat.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

TemporalFlux wrote:

Flash should have been the hardest hit by the Crisis changes because it was so dependent on parallel worlds.  But the one thing that seems to be important here is that the post-Crisis Team Flash never had a Harrison Wells.  Ever.  Until now. All of the Harrison Wells in the series were parallel universe doppelgängers that now no longer ever existed.  Cisco and Caitlyn would have been left to figure everything out alone.  This also brings up an interesting question about the Savitar saga (if it still happened) - who died in Iris’s place?  It wasn’t a Harrison Wells. Another big change post Crisis - Barry never had Jay Garrick.  All of the season two Zoom story is out the window

Wait, WHAT?

When was it established that Harrison Wells and his doubles were retroactively erased from the past?

When was it established that Jay Garrick was erased from the past?

I don't remember this at all! Maybe I was looking at my phone when this established. What?!!?

**

Regarding Batwoman's angst on having taken a life and Curtis informing her that even Batman couldn't stick to that rule 100 per cent of the time and that the Joker is dead -- I am okay with this. In superhero comics, superheroes exist in a highly impressionistic world where human beings seem far more resilient than their real world counterparts. But in live action -- as Informant once pointed out, there is a weight and physical impact to superhero battles that makes it unbelievable that Batman never killed any henchmen when crashing through buildings and throwing people off balconies.

That said, I would prefer that even live action superheroes never set out to intentionally murder anybody and when Kate killed her captive, immobilized prisoner, her prisoner was a man who had warped and broken her sister and was actively tormenting Kate into attacking him with lethal force for the second time. He wanted her to kill him and Kate understandably lost control. I wouldn't give Kate a medal, but I would excuse her for being victimized by a master manipulator who deliberately pushes people into murderous desperation.

Barry killed the Atom Smasher in Season 2, exposing him to lethal doses of radiation and stopping an otherwise unstoppable foe. There was no onscreen discussion about the morality of this.

Superheroes generally don't kill in comics, but that has less to do with morality and more to do with not wanting to kill off villains that writers might like to use next month. BATWOMAN has decided to step into shifting Batman's moral code to being less a requirement and more a preference that sometimes has to be waived. I wouldn't want the comic book characters to do that, but I understand and respect it in live action.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

ireactions wrote:

Wait, WHAT?

When was it established that Harrison Wells and his doubles were retroactively erased from the past?

When was it established that Jay Garrick was erased from the past?

I don't remember this at all! Maybe I was looking at my phone when this established.  What?!!?

lol - they haven’t said yet, but it would logically follow.  If Earth Prime was now always the only earth where our heroes lived together, then there were no parallel earths for those other characters to come from.  Certainly our main characters (like Barry) remember them, but the new Earth Prime history would have formed without the influence of parallel earth characters.

Even in the comics, the general public didn’t remember the details of Crisis or even the existence of the destroyed parallel earths.  The public and most heroes just had this memory of something really bad that happened called The Crisis where Barry Allen died.  They didn’t even remember Supergirl died because she never existed on the re-formed Earth Prime.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

TemporalFlux wrote:

lol - they haven’t said yet, but it would logically follow.  If Earth Prime was now always the only earth where our heroes lived together, then there were no parallel earths for those other characters to come from.  Certainly our main characters (like Barry) remember them, but the new Earth Prime history would have formed without the influence of parallel earth characters.

I actually see both sides of this.  The show is playing with the idea that Nash survived and erased all the other Wells from existance.  They're surviving in him (somehow) but they don't "exist"  And if Nash exists, then Harrison Wells couldn't.  However, we *know* that Harrison Wells did exist on Earth Prime - Pied Piper both recognized him and referred to him by name.

My theory - Nash is Nash's memories in the original Harrison Wells' body.  So Wells was "merged" into one person, but the Nash personality is what survived. 

Alternate theory - Since Earth Prime Harrison Wells was dead, a copy of him (Nash) is able to survive on Earth Prime?  So unlike the Beths, one was already dead so everything is fine.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

So, what's wrong with THE FLASH this year? ARROW had a strong final season. LEGENDS has been very enjoyable. SUPERGIRL is continuing its strengths from last year. But THE FLASH -- something still isn't quite right with the show. Season 6 is alright. It has moments of excellence. But I don't find it excellent overall.

Despite the ticking clock of CRISIS, despite the well-written storyline of Barry losing the Speed Force, THE FLASH doesn't seem as fun, inventive or quick-witted as Seasons 1 - 2 and I suspect that the problem cannot be solved; the problem is that the Flash is a *very* difficult character to write and the only creator with a strong vision for THE FLASH as a TV show was rightly fired out of television.

The hardest part of writing any superhero is writing for their gimmick. XENA, CAPTAIN AMERICA and BATMAN must create situation after situation that can only be resolved with the characters throwing a discus or a batarang. SPIDER-MAN must create decades' worth of problems that can only be addressed with webbing. And THE FLASH must devise 22 problems a season that can only be resolved with superspeed. Unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg had an enormous talent for crafting threats and villains where Barry's superspeed seemed useless or a liability from the Reverse Flash to Zoom to Multiplex to the Thinker. He wrote scene upon scene where the Flash doesn't make any headway into this year's mystery or mythology, but he saves civilians in an exciting special effects sequence. He yanks them out of car wrecks, rips them from collapsing buildings, evacuates them from floods.

That's been missing for awhile. It's been missing ever since unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg was thrown out of film and TV during the last quarter of Season 4. You can spot exactly when unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg carried his boxes out of the office: it's when the remaining writers turned the Thinker into Sylar from HEROES, as Slider_Quinn21 put it. Kreisberg's staff didn't have the skill to keep the Thinker sufficiently threatening through his thinking, unfortunately -- which is something even a resurrected Douglas Adams would have needed some time to work out. And Kreisberg's surviving staff presented Season 5 as the year where the Flash spent over 20 episodes unable to defeat a villain with a knife.

With Season 6, the writers have attempted to address their mistakes: they split the season in half so that the Flash wouldn't seem incompetent in needing all year to stop one normal speed villain. They've spread their attention around Barry's team so that the characters without superspeed have problems too. They've brought the theme of speed back into the stories by having Barry race against the countdown to CRISIS, then race against his depleting Speed Force. They are responsible, reliable professionals who have not sexually harassed anyone and are therefore vastly preferable to unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg.

But, unfortunately, THE FLASH's sixth season reflects a painful lack of skill in crafting high speed situations that can only be resolved with the Flash applying his superspeed in a clever and innovative way. There have been no newly developed speed flourishes. No impossible puzzles of human life to be resolved with imaginative application of Barry's powers.

THE FLASH is a very difficult concept that requires a certain mindset to plausibly threaten the Flash and make his victories seem hard earned and the Season 5 - 6 writers simply don't have that skillset. It's not a knock against them -- I can't draw or write SLIDERS-style social satire and the FLASH's current writers can't write superspeed effectively. The current writing team on THE FLASH were never hired to lead their show; they were hired to follow the lead of unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg who is no longer leading anything or anyone and never will again. They have been promoted in his permanent absence. It is an impossible situation for those who remain.

Season 6. I mean, it's fine. It's not as horrific as Season 3 of SLIDERS or as tedious as Season 5 of SLIDERS or as incompetently incoherent as Season 4 of SLIDERS. It is okay.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Yeah, I agree.  I wonder if there's a certain pressure from the writers of the Flash to be the "headlining" series.  It's easy for the Flash to be the fun "junior" series when Arrow has dark and brooding taken care of.  These days, Legends has the fun taken care of.  Maybe the Flash feels the need to be dark and brooding like the show that just ended.

I think the writers are going about things the wrong way.  If I were them, I wouldn't have season-long villains.  Because, you're right, you sorta have to make Barry look weak or dumb whenever he can't defeat a single villain.  I don't think Bloodwork or Cicada were necessarily any stronger than Pied Pier or Weather Wizard or Captain Cold...villains that Barry was able to beat in one episode. 

I like the idea of mini-seasons, but I might even go further than that.  Maybe 2-4 episode "blocs" where villains show up, make life difficult for Barry, and after an episode or two, they defeat them.  And I would use the same "villain of the week" villains.

I also think the problem is that speed isn't fun anymore.  Barry sees the Flash as being his job - not being fun.  Speed is a means to save people, not a rush.  They had some fun when Cisco got powers, when Caitlin got powers, when Ralph got powers.  A new Wells every season isn't enough "newness" to have fun.

It's why I would've killed Barry.  Shake the show up.  It's essentially the same cast from season one with a wacky new sidekick and a wacky new Wells.  I think the show could stand to lose 2/3 of Cisco, Wells, and Caitlin.  It may be time to move on from Joe West.  Not because those character are old or stale, but they've done so much with those characters.  If they'd done TF's idea and killed Barry to replace him with Bart (also played by Gustin), then they could've played with a novice speedster on a team led by someone else (Ralph or Cisco or Frost).  Bart could have fun.  There'd be a new side for whoever the leader is.  There could be a new mentoring aspect.

The Flash needed a shakeup.  Still does.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I'd politely disagree. I think things have been very shaken, severely shaken -- by removing unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg from the show. I'd like things to be unshaken and go back to an emphasis on (a) perilous situations (b) high speed scenarios and (c) the Flash saving the day with superspeed in situations where superspeed is either a liability or the only solution -- but with the continued uninvolvement of unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg.

The Godspeed vs. Flash chase scene was the first burst of energy I'd seen from THE FLASH since CRISIS, but superspeed action has become occasional when it should be weekly.

The terrible, shameful, horrific thing about unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg that I am forced to admit -- he had talent. Unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg had a penchant for putting his employees in impossible interpersonal and physical situations because it amused him. Unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg would grope, grab and corner his employees, press them against walls and furniture during meetings, physically isolate them, emotionally surround them to make it seem like they couldn't report him and couldn't leave and that they were powerless to overcome him or escape him -- and unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg would put Barry Allen into similar situations, ensnaring and overpowering an otherwise invincible speedster on a sci-fi fantasy level.

The cruel and predatory abusiveness of unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg was highly appropriate within the strictly fictional context of THE FLASH and ONLY within the strictly fictional context of THE FLASH.

Unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg has been fired. The staffers who survived him and succeed him aren't sadistic, vicious and prone to driving people into states of helplessness and despair which is excellent for their working environment. However, it also means that they aren't prone to putting Barry Allen in sadistic, vicious situations of helplessness and despair that can only be addressed with imaginative applications of superspeed and that's why THE FLASH has completely lost its edge and why its villains have lost their killer instincts.

I would rather have a mediocre season of THE FLASH from decent professionals doing a professional job than to see unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg still working. He is abhorrent and beneath contempt.

But we shouldn't be blind to talent or the void left by its absence resulting from the entirely appropriate, well-deserved firing of the monstrosity who is unrepentant sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Some news!

Word is that CW won't debut their normal lineups until 2021.  They're going to try and finish Supernatural to air in the Fall, and they've purchased some things (most notably DC Universe's Swamp Thing) to fill the holes.

Flash, Batwoman, and Superman and Lois will debut in the Winter of 2021.  Supergirl will hold until midseason (with Legends) since Melissa Benoist is pregnant.  Nothing on Green Arrow and the Canaries.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

CW head Mark Pedowitz has said that discussions regarding GREEN ARROW AND THE CANARIES are still ongoing, so he hasn't pulled the plug yet.
https://www.eonline.com/ca/news/1151970 … cw-for-now

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I guess with the pandemic, there's less of a chance that people like Kat McNamara will get picked off by other shows, but the longer they don't lock her and the other actors up, the less of a chance this show happens.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, hopefully, she’ll wait. Every time I see Kat descend from a jump line and land with her bow and arrow at the ready, I feel an uncontrollable, incontestable urge to go workout and only eat fat and protein and fibre. My health would benefit greatly if GREEN ARROW AND THE CANARIES went to series.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Yeah, I hope so too.  I also like the idea of a series that takes place in the future.  We could see how the rest of the arrowverse developed.  What's the future of Team Flash?  Could we see Bart there?  Could we see Terry McGinnis (or if they wanted, Terri McGinnis).

You know more people in that world than me.  I don't know if she'd jump at the chance for another show (or a movie) if she got the opportunity, or if she'd wait for a show she could star in.  Maybe she would...but would everyone?  That's what I always hear about when shows are cancelled - that the actors scramble to find new work.  There's no new work now, I'd imagine, but once there is, I wonder if she'd get swept up.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

The people I know aren't really 'names.' They've stood at a cash register in a Whole Foods commercial, sang the jingle for pizza chain commercials, etc.. To have leading roles, they write and perform in their own stageplays.

I imagine there'd have been a contractual hold on the CANARIES cast for some period of time following the ARROW finale. I suspect that any contractual hold on Kat McNamara has not expired yet as Pedowitz said discussions are ongoing regarding CANARIES.

If it expires (and it will in the coming months), I suppose the network and studio could ask for an extension given the extraordinary circumstances, but Grant Gustin said that he'd been engaged in negotiations for Season 7 only for those negotiations to stop dead when the pandemic hit -- which means that if that hold expires, there probably won't be any further motion until after the pandemic, assuming that there is any after. I think McNamara would be happy to wait for CANARIES up to a point since she's a working class TV actress with an established career in playing action girls and headlining a CW superhero show would be a very sensible next step in her career. She wants to do CANARIES.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

SPOILERS for the BATWOMAN FINALE

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Whoa, they did it.  They actually cast Bruce Wayne and had him "appear" - I wonder if they actually are able to use Batman.  This is, by far, the closest they've ever come.  They'll have "Bruce" show up next season.  I wonder...

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I haven’t been engaged with superheroes lately. Superheroes at their best are a reflection and response to the world outside our window and that world has been horrific lately which is why, in consuming fiction, I’ve been retreating to TV shows made during Obama’s first term. But Slider_Quinn21 makes me realize that I have two episodes each of LEGENDS, SUPERGIRL and BATWOMAN to finish. Maybe I can do it tomorrow.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I've been mildly impressed on how the Arrowverse has been able to work to make their final episodes into season finales.  It's clear that there was going to be more in each season, and these are all going to make for interesting "next seasons".  For example, will the Flash be dealing with the new Mirror Master as a season-long villain?  Or will they wrap her story up quickly and move on to their next story?  Same could be said of Batwoman/Alice/War with Kane and Supergirl/Leviathon/Lex.

I guess it shows that most of these shows end on cliffhangers most of the time.  So in essence, it could've worked with any episode they ended on.  But it's interesting...the Walking Dead chose to delay their season finale until it could be completed.  I wonder if that was an option for Flash or Batwoman (it wasn't an option for Supergirl unless Melissa Benoist could work while pregnant).

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, I caught up on LEGENDS and the evil dog episode was hilarious. I love how Zari often comes off as a gullible airhead only to reveal she sees right through any efforts to manipulate her.

LEGENDS then did a college campus comedy movie for an episode. I guess it was okay, although despite my love for COMMUNITY, I'm not really into raunchy stories of drunken behaviour and sororities and fraternities.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Um....so Ruby Rose quit Batwoman.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I'm still watching the second-last episode of BATWOMAN for the year. This is a truly baffling development. As we know from SLIDERS and THE X-FILES, lead actors in TV shows are signed to multi-year contracts, usually 5 - 7 years. David Duchovny wanted to leave THE X-FILES by Season 5; he was obligated to complete his seven year contract. Jerry, John and Sabrina were contracted for at least five seasons of SLIDERS; John was fired and released from his contract, Sabrina requested that her pickup option not be exercised, and Jerry's contract expired when Sci-Fi missed the deadline to exercise their option on him by a few weeks.

Ruby Rose would have been contractually obligated to return for Season 2, 3, 4, 5 and I imagine 6. If she's not coming back, it's  either because she didn't want to return and so vehemently didn't want to return that forcing her to fulfill the terms of her contract would have been unworkable on set or in terms of her performance -- or it's because the production vehemently doesn't want her to return and is so unwilling to work with her any further that they are releasing her from her contract despite the publicity train wreck that comes from having to recast the lead actor of your TV series whose performance as a guest-star last year was the basis of building a whole new TV show around her this year. It could be some combination of both.

It could be any number of reasons stemming from how Ruby Rose is, to put it mildly, a deeply troubled human being. I know this because I am a mentally ill person myself at times and people like us can always recognize our own kind. Rose has been bullied since she came out as gay and was suicidal since age 12. Rose was raped by a family member when she was a child. Rose has clinical depression and post-traumatic stress disorder and body dysmorphic disorder. Rose was bullied off social media when first cast as Batwoman.

Rose is also physically unwell after an injury on BATWOMAN that nearly paralyzed her; she has two herniated discs and even before that, she was having spinal issues that put her in a wheelchair for a time. She has also struggled with an addiction to something, but she has never specified what except to say that she had to fight for her sobriety.

There is a lot wrong with Ruby Rose. A lot of it is onscreen in Kate Kane's repression, her grief, her rage, her loneliness and a lot of it serves the character. There is a forcefulness to Kate that is marked by Rose's melancholy and it made her perfect for the role. But it's also possible that that the things that are wrong with Rose are preventing her from doing five more seasons of 12 - 18 hour shoots on a TV show in which case it's best to recast her character sooner rather than later.

It's going to be very difficult. Rose has a unique physical presence and onscreen look due to her tattoos and lived experience. Rose has formed her character's relationships with Kara Danvers, Luke Fox, Jacob, Mary, Alice, Sophie, Julia and Parker -- now a new performer will have to start over while continuing what a different performer created. Rose was the image of BATWOMAN on which the series was proposed, built, sold and aired.

However, unlike the departure of Ben Affleck where he walked away from the DCEU Batman after only two full-length appearances, BATWOMAN has been established in the TV factory where there is an assembly line cranking out episode after episode. It looks like the CW considers that assembly line too high an investment to throw away, so they're going to find someone else to play Kate Kane and wear the costume and red wig and carry on.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Um....so Ruby Rose quit Batwoman.

Now *that* is a cliffhanger.

Still something not seen often at all these days.  Very strange.

Personally, I think CW would be better off lobbying WB hard for a Batman show and just cancel Batwoman.  It’s going to be messy trying to work around Ruby’s departure (if it can even be done).

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Finished the impromptu Season 1 finale of BATWOMAN. It's not a finale as much as a stopping point; the season arcs don't come to any climax or jumping off point for Season 2. The season concludes with the expectation that the two unfinished episode of Season 1 will be remounted and completed as the Season 2 premiere episodes -- except all the footage of Kate Kane in those episodes features Ruby Rose who will not be back to complete it.

I imagine that the studio and network WANT to cancel BATWOMAN at this point when they've lost the actress playing Batwoman and switch to BATMAN instead. Unlike THE FLASH and SUPERGIRL and SUPERNATURAL, the studio can't simply finish off episodes 21 - 22 because those episodes weren't designed to introduce a new actress as Kate Kane. It'll be too jarring to go back to Wayne Tower where Rose's Kate Kane was seated only to now find Clea DuVall on that sofa next to Mary.

But they can't cancel. The CW ordered a second season. Berlanti Productions is obligated to deliver a second season. The airtime is booked. The writers are contracted. The space is leased. The factory is set to start running the assembly line for its televised BATWOMAN action playsets and if the playset has the face of Brianna Hildebrand (or someone) instead of Ruby Rose, then so be it -- at least that's how the manufacturing plant that is television will see it.

As far as the CW and Berlanti Productions, they'll simply find someone sufficiently androgynous and athletic and willing to be (fake) tattooed and fits into the suit and wig and start cranking out their content.

They'll likely create a time gap. Maybe the first quarter of the Season 2 premiere features Batwoman seen only in shaky camera news reports and from a civilian perspective with Batwoman taking down Arkham escapee after escapee. It's also reported that Bruce Wayne has been sighted returning to Gotham. Then there's a scene where Alice tells Hush that they need to build to Bruce walking into Wayne Tower; he needs to be seen making his grand re-entry into the city. A scene where 'Bruce' is attacked by an Arkham inmate and rescued by Batwoman who, in costume with the red wig and battle armour, is visually indistinguishable from Rose.

Then Batwoman returns to the Cave, astonished that Bruce is back and she unmasks before Luke and Mary to reveal it's Kristanna Loken or Ashley Platz or Rita Volk or Brianna Hildebrand some other performer with (a) androgynous features (b) recreations of Ruby Rose's tattoos and (c) Ruby Rose's hairstyle.

It's a mess publicly, but it doesn't have to be a mess narratively if they commit fully and totally to a new performer playing Kate Kane and also ensure that we see her in costume first. The new performer should be of the same physical type as Rose and have a similar tone and pitch in her voice -- and the show also needs to accept that a lot of the character comes from the costume.

Val Kilmer recently talked about how a friend was bringing some children to the set of BATMAN FOREVER, so Kilmer stayed in the suit for the visit -- but the kids had no interest in talking to him. They wanted to play with the batarangs and climb into the Batmobile. They weren't interested in MEETING Batman; they wanted to BE Batman.

And that's another part of why BATWOMAN cannot be cancelled right now. I described a scene from BATWOMAN to my gay niece where the teen lesbian Parker rages at Batwoman for trying to sympathize with Parker having homophobic parents. Parker says Batwoman couldn't possibly understand being outed to a phobic home, assumes that Batwoman is straight -- and is then astonished and moved and validated when Batwoman unmasks to reveal the famously gay Kate Kane under the cowl.

My niece cried at my description and she didn't even watch the show, so I can only imagine the good this sort of material does for every young lesbian out there longing to see themselves in the heroes onscreen. BATWOMAN is so validating, so empowering and so much more than Ruby Rose. BATWOMAN is every girl who feels fear and shame for being drawn to women instead of men. The world needs Kate Kane and Batwoman far more than it needs Ruby Rose to play Kate Kane and Batwoman. It will be very hard to follow Rose's fabulous performance, but it HAS to be done. What BATWOMAN started must not be stopped. It matters. It's important.

Lauren CRIED from an impromptu recap of an episode, so this show is clearly saying something important and must continue past Rose's departure for Lauren's sake and Lauren doesn't even watch it.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I'm fascinated to see what they do.  If it were me, I'd do what the Avengers did and not reference it.  Ashley Platz seemed to be the second choice and still seems interested in the job on Twitter.  If they go with her (or, to avoid further controversy, a Jewish lesbian actress), I just wouldn't acknowledge it.  The characters would know it's the same character and it'd be up to us as the audience to just accept it.

I think the easy way out (easy meaning a huge sell to WB) would be to just use the Bruce Wayne actor and do a Batman show, but a) it'd be killing off the lead female LGBT actress and b) replacing her with a straight white dude.  The CW is clearly aiming for representation and that isn't it.  As ireactions said, this level of representation and storytelling is important.

My other favorite idea is to, once again, shake things up.  Take a hero from some other show (Cisco, Caitlin, Sara, heck Ray and Nora, Ralph, Jimmy Olsen, Brainiac, etc) and move them onto the Bat team.  Still involves killing Batwoman, but it might be a good story to have a sidekick given the chance to run a team.  You could also bring in another female LGBT character to lead if you don't want to do that.  Or merge it with Green Arrow and the Canaries.  Have Mia come back in time to save Gotham.

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Reportedly some more insight into why Ruby left.  A mutual decision?  Allegedly she didn’t want to be there, and her attitude made the production not want her to be there.

https://bleedingcool.com/tv/batwoman-ru … -decision/

We know from Sliders that filming in Vancouver can be miserable; our original cast complained about it too in press screeners.  Could easily be something to this

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I think it's easier for me and other fans to acclimate to Ruby Rose's departure because Batwoman existed even before Ruby Rose played her. And Batwoman fans will continue to like her even after someone else puts on the wig and mask. I'd love it to be Brianna Hildebrand (although she's too young). I was also deeply heartened by Camrus Johnson (Luke Fox) tweeting that he was sorry everyone was so shaken and hurt by Rose's departure, but that BATWOMAN had been renewed for a Season 2 and that all cast and crew would be devoted to making a show that would be a an action-packed superhero showcase for an LGBTQA audience.

An entertainment reporter in my city with a lot of Vancouver crew member friends reported that Ruby Rose was despised by her castmates and the crew as a "sociopathic narcissist" and there are reports that she was late to set for filming or often a no-show leading to stunt and body doubles picking up the slack and a production that was exasperated. Looking at Rose's social media, she seemed to be in bleak spirits after her back surgery, noting that her insurance didn't cover it, that she was in pain afterwards.

But... it doesn't really matter why she left. She's left. I hope she's okay, but unlike the confused dismay and grief and hurt I felt when John and Sabrina and then Jerry left SLIDERS -- I've accepted that while it doesn't help BATWOMAN to lose its Batwoman, it happened, Ruby Rose resigned, but the show was renewed for Season 2 and the show must go on.

Batwoman was Ruby Rose. Batwoman will always be Ruby Rose. But as Johnson subtly implied and as I will say outright: Batwoman is also every young lesbian girl who needs a hero. She is every woman who needs to believe that she can be her own hero. Every non-traditionally feminine woman who needs to see herself reflected in heroes and leaders onscreen.

And while only Ruby Rose could ever be Ruby Rose, there are many women out there who could be militaristic, aloof, passionate, troubled, ferocious, amused, lithe and with the willingness to shear their hair short, walk like a boxer, wear makeup-based tattoos and fight crime in a red wig. And I am looking forward to meeting whoever that woman will be.

I don't know if it will work out this way, but I choose to have faith because despite my issues with the production and scripts and blocking and direction and realization and visuals of the show, I believe in what it has to say to women and girls. I believe in Batwoman.

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There haven't been any other Batwomen, have there?  It isn't like Batgirl or Robin or the Flash or Green Lantern - there's only been Kate Kane, right?

Because they could have Kate die and have someone else take up the Batmantle.

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The original Batwoman was Kathy Kane, introduced in 1956 as a circus performer and a love interest for Bruce Wayne. Her niece, Bette Kane, became Bat-Girl a love interest for Dick Grayson. But in 1967, DETECTIVE COMICS #359 introduced Barbara Gordon as Batgirl with no reference to Kathy or Bette who were not referred to again until 1977 when Kathy Kane briefly came out of "retirement" in BATMAN FAMILY #10 to help Barbara and was then killed off two years later in DETECTIVE COMICS #485. Barbara Gordon had proven popular. Then CRISIS ON INFINITE EARTHS wiped Batwoman out of existence (but Kathy and Bette Kane remained alive and well and Bette would later take on the identity of Flamebird).

2006's 52 series introduced Kate Kane as a separate character from Kathy Kane and unlike Kathy, Kate is a blood relative of Bruce Wayne on his mother's side (Martha Wayne was born Martha Kane).

In 2011, BATMAN writer Grant Morrison declared that the 2005 reality-warping events of the INFINITE CRISIS crossover had restored every aspect of Batman's continuity since 1939. BATMAN INC. featured flashbacks to all of Batman's adventures with Kathy Kane as Batwoman but from a modern perspective where Batman and Batwoman form a crimefighting family with Bat-Girl, Ace the Bat Hound and Robin -- only for Batwoman to suddenly dump Batman and tell him she doesn't want to become anyone's wife or mother. She is later killed. However, it's later revealed that Kathy was planted by the spy organization Spyral to infiltrate Batman's life; she fell in love with him but the agency threatened to expose Batman's true identity unless she broke up with him and she later faked her own death so he could move on. Kathy returns in the final issue of BATMAN INC. to save Bruce's life and the character now runs Spyral and assists the Batfamily from afar.

It's also revealed that "Kathy Kane" is an alias, chosen to catch Bruce Wayne's attention by being his mother's name.

I don't think this heterosexual version of Batwoman is suited to taking over from the Ruby Rose incarnation and even if she were, it wouldn't work. I suppose you could have Julia Pennyworth become Batwoman, but that wouldn't work either. The generational approach to superheroes has never worked once a bearer of the mantle has become entrenched in popular culture. Barry Allen was not the first Flash, but he solidfied the mythology of the Flash as a science hero and all efforts to replace him with Wally West and Bart Allen and John Fox were ultimately temporary whether intended so or not. Hal Jordan was not the first Green Lantern, but he solidified the mythos as a space police force and all efforts to replace him with John Stewart (Diggle), Guy Gardener and Kyle Rayner failed as well.

Specifically with BATWOMAN -- it can't be done because Season 1 ended on a cliffhanger where Tommy Elliot will impersonate Bruce Wayne to use his relationship with Kate Kane to steal the Kryptonite from Wayne Tower. Kate Kane has an adversarial relationship with Jacob Kane who has declared war on Batwoman. Kate Kane has a troubled mistrust of ex-lover Julia Pennyworth and a guarded secret from ex-lover Sophie and a burgeoning mentorship with Parker Torres and a working partnership with Luke Fox and another one with Mary, all of which are in a state of flux, none of which could possibly be addressed with killing off Kate Kane because Ruby Rose will not return to perform a death scene and using a distantly filmed body double could not address these arcs satisfyingly.

The only route to address all these plots and relationships, and the route that BATWOMAN has chosen, is to find a new actress to play Kate Kane. I imagine they'll need to take some time to re-establish the foundations and fundamentals of the interactions: Kate's mildly adversarial partnership with Luke, Kate's grudgingly tolerant partnership with Mary, Kate's resignation to Parker's presence, Kate's frustration with her father in and out of costume, Kate's longing for Sophie, Kate's discomfort with Julia, Kate's reverence for Bruce -- and they'll want to do that with the new woman in Kate's costume so as to keep the Kate Kane character moving forward. These relationships are too critical to Batwoman's plots to be disposed of by killing Ruby Rose off camera and bringing in Kathy or replacing Kate with Julia.

I think, to let fans and the new actress get to grips with a new face for Batwoman and to pick up on how Tommy Elliot intends to exploit Kate Kane's love for her cousin Bruce, it might help to have BATWOMAN's Season 2 feature (a) flashbacks to a Kate's childhood with Bruce using the child actress who plays the young Kate and (b) have these flashbacks age into the new performer playing Kate Kane. Or to see Batwoman in costume first and unmasked as the new actress second.

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Currently, BATWOMAN fandom seems to want KRYPTON actress and discrete lesbian Wallis Day to star as Kate in Season 2. I've never seen her in anything, but it's certainly an interesting mental exercise to imagine seeing this face under the mask and cracking wise with Luke, Mary, Sophie and Julia next year like she's been there all along. Day is English; maybe she could maintain Ruby Rose's awkward American accent as well where it would randomly switch into Australian.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DVWXPUFWAAAc6bJ.jpg

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Day would be a pretty good fit.  And Krypton was a pretty good show; it wasn’t perfect, but it’s likely as close as we’ll ever get to a well executed, full-on alien side of live action DC (though I did read that Legends is focusing on aliens next season).

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If you're asking me, if recasting is the route, I hire the best person.  I watched Ashley Platz' audition tape, and she looks and sounds nothing like Ruby Rose.  But if she's the best Kate, go with it.  Long hair, short hair.  Tall, short.  To me, it doesn't matter.  Edward Norton and Mark Ruffalo don't look anything alike, and they both played Bruce Banner in the same continuity.  If you want to say that Incredible Hulk is only partially continuity, then I'll counter with Terrance Howard and Don Cheadle.

In the interests of representation, it should be a lesbian actress.  And if they really want to go authentic, a Jewish lesbian.  But other than that, we're going to have to suspend our belief either way.

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I liked Ashley Platz's audition, but I can see why BATWOMAN went with someone else. Platz's performance indicated that her Kate was fundamentally at ease with being an ostracized outsider whereas Rose's performance of the same dialogue conveyed bitterness, frustration, seething outrage and fury. Platz's Kate was completely confident whereas Rose's Kate is perpetually on edge. That said, Platz could certainly change her interpretation.

I don't know anything about Wallis Day's acting ability having seen her in nothing, but if Temporal Flux approves of her and if the BATWOMAN/KRYPTON fandom think she's good, and if she's worked on WB television productions and if she has an existing relationship with the creators and if she's proven she can handle fight scenes and shooting schedules -- well, the fact that she looks a LOT like Ruby Rose shouldn't be the deciding factor. But it would definitely help visually if Kate in Season 2 looks enough like Kate in Season 1 that the viewer will instantly accept slightly different body language and expressions and a different voice if the face smooths over any discrepancies.

My personal choice is Brianna Hildebrand but she's really young. I have, however, seen her act and I can confirm that she would be good in the role and physically similar to Rose and her performance would be adjacent without being all that different. Hildebrand tends to play confidence as dismissive arrogance (like in DEADPOOL as Negasonic Teenage Warhead) whereas Rose played her confidence as shaky bravado. Hildebrand has also played shy, near-mute and geekily awkward in TRINKETS and she has a lot of range.

And if they go the Ashley Platz route of someone who looks nothing like Rose but will provide a strong Kate Kane performance that won't be anything like Rose's interpretation but hit the same points of character, that's good too -- but TV is a visual medium and while I wouldn't choose a bad performer who looks like a Rose-clone, I wouldn't dismiss it either if the lookalike comes with a superb level of craft, talent and skill.

Robert Floyd talked a lot to me about how he followed Jerry O'Connell where there were specific aspects of the scripts he would single out in "The Unstuck Man," "Applied Physics" and "New Gods for Old" where he would make sure to mimic Jerry O'Connell's vocal presence and expressions and mannerisms.

However, he was careful not to merely imitate Jerry as the whole of his performance; instead, he would add Jerry's traits periodically on top of his own interpretation so that it wasn't a photocopy, but Floyd's own take on the character that was informed by Jerry but not enslaved to empty mimicry. The problem with an actor doing an impression, as I'm sure you're wary of, is that it's so focused on imitating that any part of the impression that's off becomes distracting and an impression isn't creation, just approximation.

Realistically -- if they can get an actress who can mimic some of Ruby Rose's mannerisms to lightly include throughout an episode now and then to create some continuity with the original while giving the newcomer her own space, that'd be great. Whether that's Rose's pursed lips and titled head as she cracks a joke or her vaguely Australian accent or her spaced shoulder bearing or her dancer's gait, I'd leave to the performer, but I'd suggest choosing 2 - 3 elements to maintain. And idealistically, if that person looks as much like Ruby Rose as Wallis Day, the physical resemblance would speed up the viewer's acceptance and jump that hurdle immediately rather than gradually.

Whatever route they choose, I'm sure it'll be great. I believe in Batwoman.

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What sucks is that the news pretty much immediately overshadowed the fact that Bruce Wayne "appeared" in the Arrowverse.  They cast Bruce Wayne!

(even if they didn't, they did)

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Oh. Oh, right. I totally forgot about that. That feels like it happened years ago. Warren Christie. Yes, I see. He has a good look. I've never seen him in anything.

They've really slipped through a loophole; BATWOMAN still does not have the license to use Bruce Wayne on the show. They can use Hush because nobody else wants to use such a no-hope D-list abortion of a character no matter how well Gabriel Mann plays the role and Caroline Dries scripts it. They can only feature Hush impersonating Bruce Wayne. They received a special dispensation for CRISIS to have Kevin Conroy as an older Wayne, but that has expired. That's why, when Kate asked Luke if Bruce would ever return to Gotham, Luke flat out said that Bruce wouldn't be back.

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ireactions wrote:

Oh. Oh, right. I totally forgot about that. That feels like it happened years ago. Warren Christie. Yes, I see. He has a good look. I've never seen him in anything.

They've really slipped through a loophole; BATWOMAN still does not have the license to use Bruce Wayne on the show. They can use Hush because nobody else wants to use such a no-hope D-list abortion of a character no matter how well Gabriel Mann plays the role and Caroline Dries scripts it. They can only feature Hush impersonating Bruce Wayne. They received a special dispensation for CRISIS to have Kevin Conroy as an older Wayne, but that has expired. That's why, when Kate asked Luke if Bruce would ever return to Gotham, Luke flat out said that Bruce wouldn't be back.

Oh, also -- Hush is a great character. He just isn't very well regarded in the world of comics. I think it's safe to say that any villain who shows up on BATWOMAN isn't in demand by WB's licensing department. I mean, there isn't exactly a legion of fans calling for (laughs) Magpie or (snickers) Slam Bradley or (haha) Nocturna (hahahahahhahaahhaa).

A character's standing in the world of comics has no bearing on how well they're presented in a story. Quinn Mallory isn't exactly going to rank high on twentieth century heroes of science fiction. Hush has been great on BATWOMAN.

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I wrote two and a half pages of script for how BATWOMAN could introduce a new woman as Kate Kane in Season 2, follow up on the Season 1 cliffhanger and jokingly acknowledge that Kate has the face of a stranger.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1say … OIeFs/edit

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Ashley Platz. Hmm. I don't buy her as Ruby Rose, but I could certainly accept her look as Kate Kane. Not sure about the acting ability. She didn't give a bad performance in her audition, it's just that her version of Kate skews positive and light whereas the version as aired skewed negative and cynical. Platz didn't make bad choices in her performance; Rose just made different ones and the show went with Rose's.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EYv5bZ0UMAA2ACA?format=jpg&name=small

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Someone said something to me about Ashley Platz’s audition — that she acts like homophobia is amusingly beneath Kate and that she’s laughing at the restaurant manager trying to kick her out — and it gives the impression that Platz has never encountered homophobia and only knows it in the abstract. In contrast, Rose conveys all the grief, disgust and fury of someone who has spent her life belittled, abused and punished for her sexuality and is enraged by the invasive bullying.

Part of this may be due to Ashley Platz being bisexual and able to pass for straight, but it’s also because Platz was performing earlier script pages where Kate was more of an upper class socialite than the punk rocker Rose made her.

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https://www.cinemablend.com/television/ … guggenheim

Re-casting a live action part is probably the most difficult hurdle to overcome in my opinion, but I do agree with Guggenheim’s philosophy.  Limits and challenges breed innovation and creativity.  Without those obstacles, we would be missing some of the most iconic moments and ideas in movie and tv history.

In any case, a good attitude given the circumstances.

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Every superhero TV news outlet is reporting that a new character will become Batwoman, basing this on a leaked casting notice for a "Ryan Wilder" who will take over from Kate Kane who will not be recast.

https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-new-charac … ruby-rose/

I'm astonished. And I'm also confused as to the sourcing because the source for this is a Reddit posting (now deleted) with this casting notice -- and casting notices are notoriously deceptive, always altering the details to avoid leakage. However, this casting notice is being taken as correct and accurate in declaring that this Ryan Wilder character will replace Ruby Rose's Kate Kane as Batwoman. There is no other source for this information other than the deleted Reddit post. There is no statement from the studio or creative team. There is only the Reddit posting of a casting notice for a new character who will be the new Batwoman.

Yet, The Hollywood Reporter and Entertainment Weekly seem to think this is accurate, so maybe they know something I don't?

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An interesting idea.  I wonder if they’ll take the approach we were recently given in the Batman Beyond comic?  Terry Mcginnis disappears, but someone that’s obviously not Terry shows up fighting crime in the suit.  Season 2 could be a true “Mystery of the Batwoman” as even the supporting cast is trying to hunt her down and figure out who she is.

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If this is true -- and I don't know if it is because leaked casting sheets are generally unreliable and meant to obscure actual details -- this doesn't make sense. I know you weren't watching BATWOMAN, but the show is very carefully structured around Kate Kane and her relationships while living in the shadow of Bruce Wayne, her childhood confidante and friend. With the end of the truncated first season, all of Kate's arcs were up in the air: she reveres Bruce Wayne and is trying to live up to him and is about to be exploited by a villain who is impersonating Bruce and plans to exploit Kate's relationship with the real Bruce Wayne. She is engaged in a battle of wills with her twin sister, Alice. She is, in her Batwoman identity, at war with her father, Jacob Kane, the leader of Gotham City's primary law enforcement agency, the Crows, who have declared Batwoman an enemy of Gotham. She is dismayed to learn that her ex-girlfriend, Sophie, has started dating Kate's other ex-girlfriend, Julia. She is struggling to reconcile a schism with Luke Fox, her tech support worker and her main connection to the legacy of an absent Batman. She has welcomed a troubled teenaged girl into the Batcave. She is contending with a mass escape from Arkham Asylum.

If BATWOMAN opens with a new person as Batwoman and Kate Kane just gone, all these arcs are effectively jettisoned. There is no reason to maintain the existing cast as they were on the show due to their relationship with Kate Kane. It makes no sense not to simply recast Kate; by throwing away the character, the show is dismissing the fans they already have and the arcs they spent a whole season building, arcs they could sustain and continue and resolve if they just found themselves another Kate. Ruby Rose is a unique performer, but she is only a performer.

Also, the generational replacement tactic has never worked and wouldn't work here when the show is so defined by Kate's relationships and arcs, all of which ended in a state of flux. There would be no exit story for Kate; she'd have vanished without closure. The villain of Alice, defined by her sisterly bond and enmity with Kate, would have no reason to exist. Sophie and Julia, Kate's exes and allies, would have no reason to be around. The Kate Kane character captured the imagination of the public long before Ruby Rose played her; it is crazy to think that the TV show can just throw some new name and character into the suit and expect that to have the same stature and meaning; it'd be like expecting the Inhumans to replace the X-Men.

I think that this is a huge mistake if it's even true, and I don't know if it's true because it makes no sense to me that the CW would allow this news to be leaked in a casting sheet to be posted on Reddit where the story was first reported. If the story is true, I think it at least has to be incomplete because this is a route where BATWOMAN would effectively alienate its existing audience and seriously overcomplicate its own narrative for no upside whatsoever. Losing Ruby Rose put BATWOMAN in a hole. Refusing to recast her is just digging in deeper.

It's crazy. And because the CW and Greg Berlanti and Caroline Dries and the Arrowverse gang aren't prone to self-sabotaging their own properties, I assume this isn't the whole story.

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I do agree; and if it were me, I would keep Kate Kane and just recast the role.  I was only “playing the ball where it lay” if this news report is accurate.  I was having some real trouble coming up with a way to do that too.  The Batwoman Beyond arc in the comics was the best (and really only) way I could think of to try to do it if this report is true.

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Well, replacements have been attempted and there are decades worth of lessons from DC smacking us in the face of how it just never works to act like the costume and the codename are all that matter with a superhero. Barry Allen was replaced by Wally West, Oliver Queen by Connor Hawke, Hal Jordan by John Stewart/Guy Gardner/Kyle Rayner, Peter Parker by Ben Reilly -- but over time, it became clear that the identity behind the costume and codename were just as essential because that was where the central elements of the character's mythology took hold.

While Jay Garrick was the first Flash and Alan Scott was the first Green Lantern, it was with their successors that the Flash's mythos of superspeed and Green Lantern's mythos of the Green Lantern Corps fully solidifed and made them cultural icons. Kate Kane is the same; she isn't the first Batwoman, but she was the first to become enduring and immortal due to her military background, sexual orientation and caustic but sensitive characterization. And the replacements/predecessors are still around these days -- but they're the supporting cast. They're the incumbents' predecessors or trainees.

Marvel has had some fun with temporarily replacing Steve Rogers with Bucky and Peter Parker with Miles Morales -- but those were deliberately made temporary, giving the replacements a spotlight before shifting them into new roles and restoring the original. And that isn't an option of BATWOMAN goes the route of having Kate Kane go missing and having the characters search for her; like Wade in Season 4 and Quinn in Season 5, that's a road to nowhere. We all knew Sabrina and Jerry wouldn't be back and we all know Ruby Rose, having walked out on a 5 - 6 year contract, is unlikely to ever return to that set for as long as she lives.

I can see why someone might feel that Ruby Rose is too unique and unusual to be replaced, that finding someone like her or with their own interpretation that can match up is impossible -- but I think it'd be better to try and fail and only then attempt the generational approach than to do it in Season 2 when Season 1 wasn't even properly completed.

I don't know what the CW and WB are trying to pull off with this feint, but if this is all there is too it -- replacing Kate Kane with 'Ryan Wilder' -- well, history indicates that it didn't work for Green Lantern and the Flash and Spider-Man and it especially won't work on TV when we've only had one incomplete season with Kate Kane. I don't know what Dries and Berlanti and the rest are playing at, but I've never seen a fanbase so uniformly aligned in declaring that they would prefer a recast.

The entire creative team are not responding due to only posting #BlackLivesMatter material, so I wonder what tomorrow will bring. Hopefully an announcement about Wallis Day.

Eeeeeeek. Anyway. All this makes me grateful that the casts of THE FLASH and SUPERGIRL and ARROW and LEGENDS ultimately liked each other, enjoyed their work and were willing (if not always ecstastic) to stay on their shows and mostly stick together.

**

Here's another question: why would a casting sheet post the information about replacing Kate Kane so plainly without obscuring the details in case someone took a screenshot and shared it on Reddit? Why would the production make this information so readily available and easy to redistribute in advance of an official announcement?

This is why I'm so suspicious of this story and think it, if not inaccurate, then incomplete and a fragment of the full story.