DC Superheroes on TV (CW & HBO Max) (Page 3 of 28)

Well that's why I'd like it to be him.  It'd make Oliver so much more vulnerable, and it'd make the stakes so much higher.

No, I get that.  And you'd have to battle the whole "absentee black father thing."  And he's a great character and a cool actor....listen, it's never going to happen

Although it's funny, I brought this up to a black nerd friend of mine, and he's plugged in with all the "blerd" community on social media, and he said a ton of black nerds would quit watching the show if Diggle died.  Even if he was replaced by both Andy and Curtis on Team Arrow.  That's how much he means to them.

I mean I certainly have favorite characters on shows that I'd hate if they died.  You see it a lot with Walking Dead fans, but those things are usually because the show is so bad and only one character is any fun.  The problem there is that they're so afraid of killing any of their characters that now all of the main characters are basically invincible.

Haven't watched it yet, but I did see there was a Smallville reference.  Savage went by Curtis Knox, which was the name of the character on Smallville (played by Dean Cain) who was basically Vandal Savage.

I still wish they'd find a way to include Smallville in the Arrowverse mulitverse.  Even if it was just an easter egg, I think it belongs.  It paved the way for DC shows on TV.

What they should have done is something like a unfinished plotline in the comics from before the New 52 started.  The idea was that the Firestorm matrix had become unstable; and every time they turned into Firestorm it was burning seconds on the countdown clock until Firestorm would go thermonuclear and kill himself and everyone around him.  They could have instituted the concept after Stein had already committed to the time trip and it was too late to go back home.

I believe making Firestorm use dangerous would have been a better way to limit his appearances.

I haven't watched all of the latest episode yet, but I did have a thought about Heatwave.  What if he and Cold are playing a long game to steal the time ship?  They mentioned at the start that this was their goal; and if Cold is able to continue gaining trust with Rip, he may get an opportunity to gain control of the ship.  It would be interesting and redeeming to Leonard and Mick's villainy if they turn out to be the true villains of the series in the final episodes after Savage is defeated.

That's a great theory, and it'd definitely make my concerns about Snart obsolete.  It could even be part of the reason for a continuation of this storyline if they don''t go the anthology route.  They steal the timeship, and they start messing with things.  The Time Lords send a team (made up of some of these guys, maybe some new guys) to fix the damage.  That would probably be enough for a season's worth of story.

LoT was renewed.  Has anyone seen anything about how they plan to structure it?

BTW, I meant to ask.  In modern continuity, does red kryptonite just make Kryptonians evil?  Or does it still have mystery effects?

Or did Supergirl just go the Smallville route with their use of it?

And.....again.....Clark should've shown up.  Even if he didn't know what was happening.  Even if she told him to stay away and he respected that....she was out of control.  For the sake of humanity, he needed to show up.  I'm starting to think the show would've been better off taking place in Metropolis following Clark's fight with Doomsday.  So he's not in the background.

Okay, that's what I thought.  It seems like the Berlanti regime respects the Smallville era - there have been quite a few references thrown in.  I'd still love to have an official tie-in somehow.

And I agree.  I still think Supergirl is a pretty fun show.  Looking forward to the crossover with the Flash.

*shudders*

Red!Kara terrified me. I cowered under my blanket when she swaggered into the nightclub and nearly crushed Jimmy's hand. It just freaked me out. A lot. I watched AMERICAN HORROR STORY without flinching, but this was just disturbing.

It was the nightclub scene that really creeped me out. Kara was so indifferently cruel and unnervingly predatory towards James and spoke with a casual cruelty about Lucy and Jimmy's breakup. It scared me. It was like Faith from BUFFY in Season 3 - 4 at her most deranged and homicidal.

I know, intellectually, that Kara's geeky, awkward nervousness is a performance. It's not Melissa's real voice, posture, bearing or facial expressions -- but to me, it doesn't come off as a performance, it's just Kara's natural behaviour. When she's in costume, she's still Kara -- she's just a version of Kara who isn't struggling with her interpersonal dilemmas, and the interactions she has with others are largely restricted to their grateful praise or homicidal malevolence. Which is why, whenever that persona drops, I'm really disturbed. But I take it you don't like Melissa's performance at all?

Something I had forgot to remark on, but the latest episode of Flash had Jessie leaving for Opal City; it could be just an Easter egg, or it could be a set up for something more.

Opal City is the home of Starman who had powers somewhat akin to Green Lantern but based on technology; he was originally an Earth 2 character who fought alongside Jay Garrick in the Justice Society.  After Starman became an old man, he passed along his equipment to his more respectable son only to see him shot and killed on his first outing as a hero.  The more rebellious son then took up the mantle in his own counter-culture style, and it went on to become a really great comic based in both science and mysticism.

One of the main characters in the book was The Shade - an old Jay Garrick villain who was possessed by some kind of shadow entity that fell from the stars.  While giving The Shade the power to manipulate shadow into solid forms, it also made him immortal and thus hundreds of years old in present day.

In any case, Opal has many ties to Earth 2 and even Jay Garrick, so I'm thinking we'll be seeing much more of that.  This version of Starman was also considered to become a tv series for ABC many years ago, but ultimately they passed on it.

Jessie becomes a speedster too, right?

I'm not a Felicity hater, but the team was so much more fun with Curtis in the "Overwatch" role.

I would guess we'll see the reference in the next Flash episode.  I notice that this week's ep reintroduced us to the device Flash was wearing on his chest when he arrived on Supergirl's earth.  Flash doesn't usually keep us waiting on use of plot devices.

As for future references, I'm sure they'll throw something in on the rare occasion, but they'll probably focus on just doing more crossovers.  In the end, Flash also has a built in way to permanently get all the toys in one box - that future newspaper headline that mentioned the red skies.  During the Crisis on Infinite Earths, those red skies were actually the bleed between universes as the walls of reality were starting to break down.  With most of the multiverse destroyed, the final remaining earths merged together to form a single prime reality.

This could happen with the Supergirl / Arrowverse / Earth 2, etc realities if CBS decides to let it happen.  The universe merger certainly had a great many hiccups in the aftermath, though; but that just gives story to explore.

There were parts of the crossover that were fun. The goofy interaction was enjoyable, and Kara had more chemistry with Barry than pretty much anyone else on the show. Having him there exposed a lot of the show's weaknesses, because it was awkward to see him in something so far beneath the quality of his own show. The writing and directing were horrible. It felt like a last minute attempt to save the show, which has failed to reach the level of acclaim of the other DC shows, and which hasn't yet been renewed. It didn't feel like a real event crossover, as it should have.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kara show up on The Flash if her show is cancelled (like Constantine did on Arrow) but if they did that, they should use Melissa to bring in Power Girl, and avoid having to rebuild this version of Supergirl from scratch. Though they could use her if they get to the Crisis point in the story.

Legends took some risks this week, after the first 1950's episode completely failed to hit the mark. It was a really interesting episode, having three characters stranded for two years and revealing Rory to be Chronos. It makes me think that they will be switching up the cast next year, but we will see.

Arrow was horrible. So, so horrible. They took one of the worst Flash villains and put her on Arrow, and made the plot revolve around a silly McGuffin that shouldn't exist in the first place, for so many reasons.
I agree that the team was better without Felicity. I don't necessarily like the Curtis character too much, but at least he isn't a whiny, annoying, self righteous, horrible CEO, which Felicity has become.

The Flash was really interesting. Barry changed the past. How does that alter his present? How can he live in a world that he knows is wrong? I know that technically, his entire timeline was wrong to begin with, but the world he knows is essentially gone now. He is like Quinn Mallory seeing his dead father walk through the door.
It's interesting that Sara messed with her past too, on Legends this week, but those changes were used to create the timeline that she already knows.

So question... Will Talia be used in the future, or was her introduction just a wink to the audience?

With Supergirl... I think it will probably be renewed, but the network definitely isn't as happy with it as they'd like to be. It wasn't included with the early renewals, which is telling. But more than that, the Flash crossover tells me that they were looking for a boost from a fan base that they don't see tuning in. The show isn't generating much heat.

I don't think that Legends necessarily needs to have a full overhaul of the cast, but I'd like to see some swapping out each season. Stein is married. He needs to go home (while remaining a part of this overall universe).

It's isn't really that I hate Arrow, it's just that I don't feel like the writers are present there. It irritates me when solid potential is wasted. I liked seeing Laurel and Oliver showing an actual friendship. It makes sense, and it always seemed awkward when they weren't closer (usually because they were trying to force Oliver to interact with Felicity all the time).
I don't really care who is in the grave at this point. By that, I mean that the buildup was useless. It was a waste of time, because there were no clues and none of the mystery had a purpose. I would hate to see a couple of the characters die. I'd be upset if they killed Laurel, because Black Canary isn't a throwaway character. I'd be upset if they kill Diggle or Thea. Other than that... they have killed Oliver and it meant nothing, so they have to earn back the emotional response. My prediction is that it will be someone who doesn't really matter. Curtis' husband, Alex, Donna or even Quentin don't really matter.

Barry discovered time travel much earlier on The Flash now. Has he used it more than before? They could pretty much use that change to alter anything. Ronnie could walk through the door next week and it could be explained with a shrug and "Time travel!"

Talia would be older, but she might not look older. She could be Ruve Darhk... but would that be too much?

Agreed.  It is hard to believe that this show is produced by the same people as The Flash or Legends.

That is true, but a lot of the weaknesses are just in the writing and directing. There is no excuse for having Alex shouting Kara's secret in a public place.

A lot of writing for television involves finding ways to work with what you have. You can't just throw your hands up and blame the network for every little thing.

Though to be fair, CBS does have remarkably bad shows. They must be messing things up somewhere.

Sometimes, it's enough to like the cast of a show. As much as I've had issues with Arrow lately, I do like the cast a lot. I want the show to be better for them.

In the crossover, it was fun to see Kara's reaction to Barry. Her reaction to getting the ice cream. The fun of it. I think that's an interesting element for the character. She could be fun and happy and enjoy this life, but the world they've put her in doesn't allow for that. She is either being yelled at by a boss that she's scared of, or she is stuck in a poorly lit cave, surrounded by super soldiers. This is the problem with the show. They've tried to make her something that she isn't, and the character is rejecting the story. Sadly, being a CBS show likely means that there will be no drastic changes to the formula, so this is what she is stuck with for the rest of the series.

There were times when I was reading the Supergirl comics that I thought she acted a lot like Buffy Summers. She was a badass, but she was also fun and quirky. The show would be so much better if they did away with the government element and put Kara into a world where she could have some fun. I'm not saying that it has to be a comedy, but there isn't much that can hurt her. She's already lost everything she loved. She watched her home blow up. The worst things imaginable are already in her rear view mirror. She should either be more traumatized and messed up, or she should lighten up and be fun. I'm just not sure how I'd go about restructuring the series at this point. It would probably require a massive cast overhaul. I'd get rid of the DEO entirely. Martian Manhunter would be cut back to an occasional guest star (he can't stay on the show as he is. He is too big of a character to be a supporting character to a secondary superhero). I'd ditch Jimmy. He just doesn't work on the show. And Lucy would go too.
There might be a way to stay at CatCo, but I'm not sure how. Kara needs to stop living Clark's life, so how would she go about doing that while remaining at a massive media outlet?

I don't know... Isn't the DEO just a super fancy police department for aliens? And technically, she is just a consultant there, since she isn't an agent and gets no money from it. So... Yeah, it is pretty much every procedural on TV, with an S on the chest.

This is pretty much the attitude of Sony towards AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. It never works. Yes, SUPERGIRL made mistakes out the gate where it needed to choose A or B and it chose both. But what's done is done. Rather than try to turn SUPERGIRL into a different show, it would be best to identify the strengths of this mis-mash and make the best of it now. Retooling at this point would only deepen the creative dissonance. What works about SUPERGIRL?

The cast is superb: Melissa Benoist, Chyler Leigh and David Harewood have terrific chemistry, Benoist bouces off Mechad Brooks and Jeremy Jordan nicely, Callista Flockhart is a good foil.

While there are filming issues, the superpowers are for the most part well rendered. The costume and flying effects are terrific, the fight sequences, outside of odd lapses, come off well. It's the superhero action show SMALLVILLE wasn't.

The tone is appealing. This show embraces the goofy, earnest fun of superheroes and presents Supergirl's morality and compassion as intrinsic to her nature and reflective of the potential of all human beings to behave responsibly and well.
Humour: the scripts are full of fun jokes and great wisecracks.

Legacy: the show is respectful of SUPERMAN's cinematic and televisual history, casting Helen Slater and Dean Cain in major roles, and also reflects familiar for the source material with its use of the Martian Manhunter, Toyman, Silver Banshee, etc..

What does not work? I would say that the problem is not that SUPERGIRL doesn't work; it's that all the aspects that work well also work in opposition to each other. Supergirl is a determined and easily intimidated little bookworm of a thrillseeker who works as an intern at a media agency as a highly placed agent of a top secret government agency who is in her late twenties but has no experience dating, making friends, holding down a job or using her powers and has feelings for geek icon Jimmy Olsen who is played by a six foot tall basketball player type.

.................................

I think the only option here is to turn into the swerve. First, it's time to move Winn. When you have Jimmy, you don't need another male friend at Catco, but since the actor's on contract, relocate him to the DEO and make him Alex's associate more than Kara's.

Second, Mehcad Brooks is Jimmy Olsen, deal with it. It's time to shift him from being on the executive staff at Catco to someone whose role is working the streets of National City, gathering stories that will lead to the grounded, ordinary people plots of episodes while Winn and Alex serve the fantasy plots. When Jimmy wanders into a DEO plot, the show should highlight how he feels like he's stumbled into a different TV series.

Third, I think the dissonance in Supergirl should be embraced as representing the schizophrenic nature of Supergirl's life. The series should develop three distinct and separate visual styles: crisp, still filming for the DEO/fantasy plots and documentary style camerawork for the mundane side of the series at Catco. For Season 2, Kara can develop multiple personality disorder as a result of the schism and the show really mine that for drama rather than pretend it doesn't exist.

For better or worse, this is SUPERGIRL. Attempting to turn it into a different show at this stage would just make a bigger mess; one might as well just cancel the series and do a reboot and there's no need to do that. There's plenty to enjoy with SUPERGIRL. SUPERGIRL could be a lot worse.

It could be an ugly, nasty series like GOTHAM or take itself far too seriously like the first 13 episodes of ARROW or be crassly objectifying like Seasons 2 - 7 of SMALLVILLE or be incapable of rendering superheroes like LOIS & CLARK or be a depressing bore like BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN or be witlessly self-important like that WONDER WOMAN pilot or be visually inept like the first 13 episodes of SUPERBOY or be unable to choose a tone like PUNISHER WAR ZONE.

The tone of SUPERGIRL is good. The spirit of the series is strong. The details just need some selective refinement. Choices must be made.

I don't think the DEO stuff works at all. I think that, like ARGUS, it would be okay to have them exist and sometimes work with Supergirl, but having her work with them all the time isn't right. There is a reason why Superman isn't a member of the military. It's because having someone like that work as a government agent is a scary thought. It's one thing to have the flag waving behind Superman, but it would mean something else entirely to have him marching under the President's orders. He is the everyman, not "the man". So, I strongly believe that they need to go. And honestly, the soldiers running around in the background as Kara fights bad guys are just silly. The whole thing is just there because every CBS show needs a poorly lit, techie looking facility where the walls are lined with flat screens.

So if I were executive producing the series, I would get rid of that facility. I'd have Alex leave them behind and go into a more intellectual field (it is ridiculous to have her act as a soldier next to Kara). Maybe with the mystery of her father solved, Alex can let go of her anger and go work for a university or a tech company or something.

J'onn can't be a sidekick. His role is unsustainable on the show. He needs to resolve his role as guardian of the Danvers girls and move on to find a life of his own.

Jimmy... I honestly don't see any chemistry between him and the rest of the cast. I would get rid of him too.

I don't think this is a complete overhaul of the series. I think that it could all be natural progression over time. The Cadmus storyline could make Kara rethink her role as a government agent pretty easily. Same with Alex. And Jimmy could decide that he'd rather be a photographer in the field, and go off to take pictures around the world. He could come back to National City from time to time, but he wouldn't be a regular.

Winn and Kara work well together. Kara and Alex work well together. Kara and Cat work well together (though the dynamic needs to change, because I think that Kara needs a job that means something to the character). Basically, as much as I hate that they used Clark's story for Kara, most of that stuff can stick around. Getting rid of the DEO will allow Kara to be her own person and would allow more of her fun personality to come through. I want her to be the girl who flipped out when Barry handed her ice cream, but I want that excitement to be about her own role in the world.

Unlike Clark Kent, Kara Danvers is a cover persona (not to the extent of Bruce Wayne, but more than Clark). We aren't being shown who the real Kara is.