Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Going to watch WW1984 later today.

As for Snyder -- I'm not really a fan of his stuff, but I certainly appreciate the physicality he gave Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman in contrast to the relative weightlessness of the Donner SUPERMAN films. A lot of Snyder's decisions are fundamentally at odds with why superhero fans enjoy superheroes. The first is collateral damage: very simply, superheroes SAVE people, so presenting Superman standing victorious around the shattered wreckage of the city of Metropolis is horrific and Snyder's blindness to how this would come off to his audience -- that's a serious failure as a director. A director has to be aware of how the audience will react to his content and the fact that he didn't think smashed skyscrapers full of people would be disturbing and his neglecting to have the MAN OF STEEL acknowledge it in any fashion is inept.

Snyder has a deeply disdainful attitude to superheroes, snarking that it's absurd that Superman and Batman don't kill. While I'm not a purist on the subject, Snyder's decision to have Superman kill Zod and Batman knife henchmen to death has a certain contempt for the source material behind it like he's embarrassed to be doing a superhero movie in the first place. This attitude is also present in his comments that he thought it was "fun" to kill off CIA agent Jimmy Olsen in BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE (actual title) and that it would be "fun" to do a prequel comic book where we get to see the Joker murder Dick Grayson.

I think that a creator who feels he has to show Superman and Batman killing should simply say that these are his versions of Superman and Batman, but Snyder actively attacking the non-lethal Superman and Batman presented elsewhere shows a marked disrespect for the characters and other creators. And creators who create based on contempt and trying to denigrate other creators are fundamentally cynical and defeatist and that's also not really why superheroes appeal, at least not to me.

The best I would say of Snyder is that he is technically brilliant and he clearly encouraged Patty Jenkins to do PATTY JENKINS' WONDER WOMAN and not worry about making it match ZACK SNYDER'S WONDER WOMAN.

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Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

WW84 was vapid, and like everything else these days, 45 minutes too long.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

I got distracted again, this time by work and THE KARATE KID: REBORN (or COBRA KAI, as Netflix insists on calling it).

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

ireactions wrote:

I think that a creator who feels he has to show Superman and Batman killing should simply say that these are his versions of Superman and Batman, but Snyder actively attacking the non-lethal Superman and Batman presented elsewhere shows a marked disrespect for the characters and other creators. And creators who create based on contempt and trying to denigrate other creators are fundamentally cynical and defeatist and that's also not really why superheroes appeal, at least not to me.

If this were Marvel, I'd just give him the Punisher.  Who would be a good DC character that would work for Snyder?

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

If this were Marvel, I'd just give him the Punisher.  Who would be a good DC character that would work for Snyder?

First that comes to mind is Lobo.  It would fit perfectly with his visions of violence, blood, gore and surrealism.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Grizzlor wrote:

WW84 was vapid, and like everything else these days, 45 minutes too long.

It's interesting for you to say that because I had the opposite thought.  I think somehow this movie needed to be longer - which I know is crazy.  But I feel like if you chopped out 45 minutes, it would suffer from the BvS syndrome of the plot no longer making sense.  I think there's a version of this film that makes sense and be 45 minutes shorter, but I think you'd need to completely remove the Cheetah subplot.  Then the movie loses a couple action sequences and the climax is Wonder Woman making an empassioned speech.  I think it's more likely that they'd cut the Steve Trevor stuff, which is really where the movie works best.

I think the BvS Ultimate Edition is a great comparison because I think the movie is really compelling but falls apart when under scrutiny.  It also has an insane runtime but also doesn't spend the time wisely or efficiently.  BvS had several scenes with Batman and Alfred, but almost none of it helps explain why Batman is acting the way he's acting or whether or not things were ever different.  There's a ton about Superman but almost nothing in it humanizes him.  A ton with Lex but very little to explain his motivations.

So you have a bloated movie that tells a big story but struggles to answer any questions.  And that's what happens with WW84.  I have a ton of questions about how the Dreamstone works, and despite a 150 minute runtime, they don't seem terribly interested in explaining it.  Did Lord have a supernatural understanding of what people cherish the most, or was he randomly picking things he wanted?  With the first Arab oil baron, he asks for the oil without knowing the the oil wasn't his.  Then he takes the security team.  So it seems like he can just take what he wants but he doesn't have any supernatural knowledge.  But then at the end, how does he know what to take?

Are Diana's powers really what Diana treasures the most?  That seems odd.  I know she likes being a hero, but maybe she should've lost her concern for civilians?  Her heroism? 

And what did Lord lose?  I kept thinking that he'd lose his son, but that never happened.  I'm sure they didn't want to kill a kid, but it seems weird that Lord didn't seem to have any downside to his wish.  Did he also lose his humanity?  He definitely went power hungry, but was he always like that?

And the rules seemed different.  Some people lost everything immediately.  Barbara and Diana seemed to lose their treasured thing gradually.  But Max's partner was taken to jail almost immediately.

What was the point of Steve inhabiting some stranger?  Even the movie seemed to forget that plot point at times.

All in all, I don't think cutting things would work unless you cut things and then added other things.  The dreamstone part was the part that was the most confusing, but you can't cut that part out or the movie makes even less sense.  Again, you could cut Barbara, but you lose some fun scenes and lose some action beats.

TemporalFlux wrote:

First that comes to mind is Lobo.  It would fit perfectly with his visions of violence, blood, gore and surrealism.

I actually had that thought.  I think that would be really interesting.

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Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

I finally watched Justice League, and do not understand the complaining???  Movie was fine, yeah sure it was stupid and dull, like any other comic book teamup is.  So?  Ray Fisher's Cyborg character had plenty of screen time, despite his whining.  The infamous Ezra landing on Gal moment lasted all of about 0.75 seconds.  I cannot see how Snyder's additional footage will do anything but bore you even further.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

I think your distaste for superhero movies is probably a factor. Which is fine. Superheroes are a problematic genre to begin with and we’re all going to have genres we don’t like. I myself don’t like horror.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

What I don't understand about the Snyder Cut is the fact that the movie will still have the same skeleton.  Whedon didn't have the time or ability to completely re-write what Snyder had done.  So the story going to be, at its heart, what we've already seen.  I've never seen a movie re-cut to be something completely different.  The Ultimate Edition of BvS added scenes but didn't change how I felt about the movie as I watched it.

I get that it's essentially gonna be a second movie's worth of footage, but at best, it would be a sidequel.

I think this money and energy would've been better used to do his whole triolgy in animation.  They could've rushed through the "Justice League" part (since we've seen it) and then do his finale.  Because at least that would've been new.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Well, if you saw JUSTICE LEAGUE, a Joss Whedon film -- and if you saw BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN DAWN OF JUSTICE ULTIMATE EDITION, a Zach Snyder film -- I think it's pretty clear what the difference will be in tone and style.