American Politics: Discuss and Debate (Page 9 of 57)

Um. Trump just made noted white nationalist Steve Bannon his chief strategist. I don't know how having no filter and a tendency to exaggerate diminishes the racist attitudes in play and in power here.

Uncle Informant, I have some very bad news for you. I am really scared of Donald Trump. I am so terrified that I had to write some script pages of Quinn Mallory telling me how to keep moving forward so that I could fall asleep at night. But Quinn is only a fictional character and he can only go so far, so I will be depending on you heavily to de-escalate the left-leaning hysteria and possibly direct me to some better news sources. I'm frightened and I don't even live in America.

Well. I want to believe.

During this election, Temporal Flux renounced the Republican Party. Despite not being American, I largely identified with Democrats, but I now renounce the Democratic Party. There's nothing particularly democratic about them at all; they've largely been run for the benefit of plutocrats, corporations, banks and other financial institutions.

They make a big show of claiming to care about the working class while facilitating the devastation of their livelihoods while making stumbling overtures in civil rights and health care that turn out to be little more than gestures. Obama and Clinton are really just Democrats in name; they only play Democrats on TV.

I guess, in my head, I justified it by saying that sometimes you give a little to get a little, you go along to get along, the role of corporate enterprise in supposedly democratic political action was an unfortunate evil but that they were better than the alternative -- except this approach has alienated at least half the country and turned the US Presidency over to either an ignoramaus, a madman, or both. This doesn't work. This isn't working.

The GOP terrifies me and the Democratic Party has betrayed me through sheer force of egotistical incompetence, sabotaging a decent candidate to push forward an ineffectual one and now I'm writing ****ing SLIDERS scripts to shore up my ability to get through the day.

Anyway. I'll try it your way.

None of these people terrify me, because I know they are largely cowards!  Quite a bit of evidence there.  However, the deep ties/chains to lobbyists for the energy, Pharma, banking and other industries is really the large concern.  Both parties are ruled by these interests.  McCain Feingold was gutted by a conservative Supreme Court, and until something similar is written to law, it will only get worse. 

I think the Democrats are actually in an interesting position, IF they truly can finally purge themselves of the Clinton camp.  This seems likely.  Will they be further left?  Probably, but to be honest, it's clear populism is IN. 

As for Trump, I found it funny that the "Prediction Professor," who has a perfect Prez election record, has now said he expects Trump to be impeached at some point.  We'll see about that, but his team is perhaps the most insular I've ever seen.  They are loyalists first, experience second, an incredibly big red flag.  They have already tried to hide from the press, and we saw how they acted during the campaign. 

To me the gravest threats posed to the American people are due to climate change and cyber attack.  The days of nuclear and even foreign terrorism being high on the list are over.  You're much more likely to have your personal identity and even finances stolen from cyber terrorists.  The nation's economy is at very HIGH risk as well, due to hacking.   I felt like Obama did nothing about this, and Trump will do even less, especially after benefiting from Wikileaks and refusing to point the finger at Russia as EVERY intelligence service did.  Climate Change is the #1 threat, to both the United States and the world.  The amount of death and financial destruction is second to none.  GOP has been so bad on this, it is frankly treasonous.  They are in the pockets of the energy industry, and nothing has gotten done.  Trump will likely reverse the orders Obama has given on this, driving the US and the world into the abyss much sooner.

I agree that the Republican stance on climate change is ridiculous, but let's not pretend that things were going to get any better under Clinton's watch.  She's just as tied to the oil companies, and she's basically Johnny Frackingseed.

This is the problem with electing presidents that are going to be dead in the next couple decades.  Why would they care about climate change when they won't be here much longer?

The fact is that we have a group of people who have declared war on not just America, but anyone who isn't like them. They will kill as many people as they can, in the hopes of wiping all of us off of the face of the Earth. You don't shrug and do nothing about that. Ignoring cancer doesn't make it go away.

And sorry, but your line about the odds of me being killed on my own property would have been a lot more convincing if a stray bullet from terrorist attack couldn't have conceivably done me in a few months back. Climate change didn't show up in my neighborhood with a bunch of guns, planning to mow down as many people as they could. Terrorists did.

I fail to see the logic in not acknowledging the threat that we can see with our own eyes all the time. You want to talk climate change? Great. We can do that if you want. We can discuss gun violence. We can discuss the economy. We can discuss healthcare. We can discuss alien invaders from the planet Fritolay if it comes to it. But why ignore something so blatantly obvious the people who have the will and the increasing ability to kill us?

There are many issues that need to be dealt with. Not all Presidents will pick one topic to care about and let everything else go wild. Terrorism is an issue. Illegal immigration is an issue. Healthcare is an issue. Education is an issue.

We're gonna have to walk and chew gum at the same time here.

The white supremacists who always support the Republicans have gotten more press this time around.

I wouldn't trust any news from Facebook.

Ancient history.  There's a reason Strom Thurmond and his ilk switched from the Democrats to the Republicans.

Not really ancient. A lot of the democratic politicians of today came up in that era. We're not talking about the Civil War here.

Look, there are plenty of bad people who support both sides. We could spend all day going back and forth, finding the worst people in the world and seeing which party they support. It might be an interesting conversation, but using it as a broad stroke against someone doesn't really work. If the implication is that the conservatives are racist and therefore attract racists, it's just not based in reality. The fact is that whatever white supremacists exist today are a tiny percentage of the population. They're a fringe group so small that they only get media attention when that media is looking for the slimiest headline they can get their hands on.

When have Republicans ever been a party of racism? They weren't the ones forming the KKK. They weren't the ones who were fighting against equal rights. They weren't the ones supporting the eugenics movement. You say that all of this is ancient history, so what does the present look like to you now? How big of an issue do you truly and honestly believe the white supremacist movement to be in the Republican party? Because I know a lot of people, with a lot of political beliefs, and the white supremacist thing has never really been an issue with anyone I've ever met.

Speaking of that, I found this article amusing (especially if true):

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-2 … ount-costs

The comments however are awful.

I think it's a waste of money (recount), but once again Trump acts like an infantile dufus by attacking the process.  He ought to welcome it, and commend the "extra mile" to prove our system works as intended.

Is this the reason for the recount effort?

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/201 … ounts.html

It would add another asterisk by Trump's name in the history books.

Question - Did Romney or McCain have widespread recounts, or was Gore the last time this happened?

Every time a celebrity complains about Trump, I laugh.  If the Democrats had taken this election even a little seriously, they would've won in a landslide.  The Republican Party is still divided about Trump.  The Democrats ran a candidate *so unpopular* that she was defeated by a portion of the Republican Party.

This was the most winnable election in history, and the party decided it was more important to feed Hillary's lust for power.  And now they're paying for it.

I heard that Bill Clinton wanted to change the strategy up and focus on the Rust Belt, and they laughed him out of the room.  The dude re-wrote the book on American elections, and they laughed him out of the room.

And he was right.

Michael Moore called it back in like February or March.  He said Hillary would lose those states if she wasn't careful.  The margins were very thin, only 10K in MI, 22K in WI, and 60K in PA.  At the end of the day, the reason is simple.  Clinton failed to get enough people who agreed with her to vote. 

I'm sure your sickness is not the same source as mine, but I wholeheartedly agree.  I felt his behavior in 2008's primary towards Obama was flat putrid and shameful.  Even at 70 or 80 or whatever his age is, can't keep it in his pants either.  Trump's behavior was 100 times worse, but Bill took what were 50/50 feelings I had between B.O. and H.C., and soured me on Hillary for life.

I have yet to see any reason to believe Trump when he talks about anything. Ever. It's just as likely he's gotten his information from Alex Jones or an Internet meme as anything else. And he'll deny having said something ten minutes after having said it, even if you play him a recording of it. I have no love for Bill Clinton, but there really is no comparison between him and our fascist in chief.

Well Trump is taking credit for saving less than 1000 of the 2100 Carrier jobs they were moving to Mexico.  In response, the parent company will get regulatory favors, not to mention who knows how much $$$ from the state of Indiana.  Bravo, I guess?  Trump said he'd save ALL the jobs or Carrier would be paying a TAX for moving to Mexico!  Clearly Mike Pence is running this show, not some anti-establishment trade warrior.

Yea. There's an arrogance there that didn't shift.

CIA says Putin interfered on behalf of Trump.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … p-win.html

Trump names Putin's buddy and CEO of ExxonMobil as Secretary of State.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article … -NEWS.html

https://youtu.be/6Y9oVC-mGW8

Lolz

Has the Democratic Party done anything to fix whatever mistakes led to them losing so much?  Has anyone quit or been fired? 

Or is it just going to be four more years of complaining while not fixing anything?

There IS a discussion about the failure, with a fairly strong push to oust Nancy Pelosi as minority leader.  I think some argue that since Hillary had nearly 3 million more votes, it's not that bad.  I of course would argue that my dog could have beaten Donald Trump by 3 million votes.  The Clinton's and their tentacles one would hope are finally gone, but we'll see.  As much as Obama's "Chicago crowd" was labeled as crooked, the man will leave office FREE of scandal, whereas the Clinton's were as slimy as ever.

Now they could treat Trump as the GOP treated Obama, and refuse to support anything the guy wants.  It's worked quite well for Republicans.  Americans really get exactly what they deserve.  They bitch and bitch, but they're too lazy to hold elected officials to account for specific votes or non-votes.   

I think confirmation of Rex as Sec of State is gonna be a problem for Trumpy.  I think that guy is way too cozy with Putin, and frankly this Alt-Right affinity for that turd is really stunning.  Not stunning that they feel that way, what's stunning is how little the rest of the country seems to mind.

Firstly, Pelosi is in charge, yes.  The point though was that there was enough of a backlash that it's been suggested this is likely the last go around for her, Hoyer, and Clyburn.  They're all in their 70s anyway, and need to step aside.  As for corruption, I think it's more about the DNC at the highest level.  The entire party is not corrupt, it's just the central core which was stacked with Clinton loyalists.  Wasserman-Shultz should never have been in charge, she was absolutely heinous to then Sen. Obama in the media.  Donna Brazile is another crook, who's on the way out.

Now, as for performance, one thing to remember is that even though Republicans pulled out the Senate, most of those were very close races, which could have gone either way.  There's no doubt, the FBI much with Hillary plus the Russian's hacking the emails had a negative affect on the Dem results.  Similarly, Trump flipped four rust best states with very slim margins of 1 or 2%.  So again, it's not like Trump swayed massive of amounts of people.  He did NOT.  He has no mandate, he was preferred by less of the electorate.

I don't think the Russian hacking had any effect on Senate races.  People kept saying that Trump was going to hurt Republicans down ballot, and that didn't happen.  I don't think it was because Trump was popular, but I think it's because pundits think too much of the connection between the president and down-ballot candidates. 

The senate races were close, but they lost.  The presidential election was close, but they lost.  It was a devastating election, and the people in charge should be gone.  They bet everything on Hillary Clinton, and they need to pay the price.  The fact that everyone in charge still has their job shows just how corrupt the party leaders are.

What's crazy is that Democrats should be furious at their party leadership, and they're not.  If people were protesting Pelosi and the DNC, they'd get fresh leadership.  Hopefully they turn their attention from Trump and focus internally, or they're going to run into the same problems in 2018 and 2020.  And hopefully the party can go back to being something that people believe in.  Because, right now, it's hard to tell the DNC from the RNC.

There are a lot of balls to juggle here, so let me try to quickly address different points without rambling too much...

Obama was never qualified to be President, and remains unqualified to this day. He got the support that he did because he was pretty much Oprah's book of the month. Once she put her label on him, he got other celebrities behind him and he became a pop culture icon. People voted for his poster, not his ability.
The reason that Obama has remained without scandal is because the people who decide what is and is not a scandal have deemed Obama untouchable. They will not ask questions about his past, or demand his records the way they do with most candidates and Presidents. They gloss over his missteps or stupid slip-ups (I'm still hearing about Rick Perry forgetting the name of the EPA while on medication, but never heard anyone bring up Obama's 57 states comment). They do not hold Obama accountable for his failures. There is now an overlap between blaming Bush and Trump, with absolutely nobody in between. They ignore his failings when it comes to the economy and national security. They ignore the way he blatantly pushes for racial tension and violence. Obama is no better than Trump when it comes to arrogance or the trash that comes out of his mouth. The difference is that the media spit-shines every turd that Obama drops. The man is known to have associated with radicals and terrorists, and it is considered racist to question him.
There is plenty of material for a scandal when it comes to Obama, but the scandal makers won't go there. They love him too much. While George W Bush had movies and video games depicting his assassination, Obama gets fictional rom-coms and glorification. He abused his power. He created an unthinkable amount of debt. He failed to protect us from terrorists, choosing to target law-abiding American citizens instead. He did significant damage to out healthcare system. And the only reason that the unemployment numbers are so low is because workforce participation has dropped so low. Obama is a failure in every respect, and a man who loves to divide the American people. But good luck getting that record to show up in the history books. He'll be as shiny as FDR for generations to come.

George W. Bush was blamed for natural disasters. Obama isn't even blamed for his own actions.

Hillary Clinton never should have been in the running. The democrats failed their people by acknowledging her existence, both this year and in 2008. People don't like the Clintons, but the establishment democrats love them. I don't think that Sanders would have won against Trump, because he is too far in the wrong direction for a country that is trying to get away from Obama right now, but I do think that the democrats would have had a better chance if they could have chosen a less extreme, more relatable, possibly even human candidate. Both parties have the same problem, in that the establishment is very far removed from the people that they are supposed to serve. The republicans suffered dearly for that this year, and so did the democrats. The people are not happy with the way things are being done. Term limits are needed, and I think that the people that we elect should have to spend less time in Washington and more time amongst the people that they serve. They need to be reminded that they are not supposed to be our masters, they are supposed to be our voices.

Until the popular vote means something, it means nothing. You can say that Hillary won the popular vote, but most of those votes come from very specific areas and do not represent the country as a whole. I, for one, would not be a huge fan of California deciding the fate of our country. Their state is a mess, and they have no idea what it is like to live in "fly-over country". We have an electoral college for a reason, and it's a good reason. Acting as though the popular vote means something fails to take into account the fact that these are pretty localized groups, and the fact that there are also millions of people who don't vote because their states aren't in question. I know people who don't vote in Texas, because it's a waste of their time. Until the national popular vote actually matters for something (which it shouldn't), you can't hang your hat on that number. Hillary Clinton lost. Her loss was quite significant.

I think she lost because of arrogance. Her campaign didn't believe that they needed to earn the trust or the votes of people, and abandoned a lot of states that they assumed would be going for them no matter what. Trump picked up a lot of votes because of that, and we are seeing a lot of whining and bickering and foot stomping now, because Hillary's camp thinks that they deserved to win. That they were entitled to it. That they had a right to it, because it was theirs. Simply put, she lost because she deserved to.

So now we have Trump. A man who is undoubtedly already on the media's list of worst Presidents in history, for his failure to make Obamacare work, and whatever else is going wrong in the world. There will be no talk of the mess that was left for him when he entered office. There will be no "It takes a decade for the economy to reflect a President's impact!" There will be no forgiveness when we are attacked by terrorists again and again and again. There will be no unity behind the man when a race war breaks out. And I'm not saying that he should get away with any of his failures. I'm just saying that it doesn't matter what he does, because the narrative is already being written and the headlines are, in some cases, already being published.

The democrats failed the democrats. The republicans failed the republicans. The media failed everyone.

Merry Christmas!

The media are just the worst of all, that's for sure, which is why I no longer watch ANY political television!  The economy is actually very strong, but the way of the world is automation and robotics, the latter we spend no money on in this country.  It's all over seas technology.  It sucks, but at some point we have to realize that pumping oil is a thing of the past.  Digging for coal is a thing of the past.  We should be investing in renewables much more, because the Chinese will run laps around us while Trump is stacking his cabinet with oil industry billionaires.  Xenophobia was very critical for Trump, just as it is for the right in Europe.  The problem is they blame globalization which is not the cause.  If anything "sharing" the wealth has helped more out of poverty AND kept them in their home countries.  No, what's done it is destabilizing regimes.  Bush, Obama, Clinton, they're all guilty of this.  But they are controlled by the war machine, and good luck to Donald on that account.  Also guilty is his new buddy Vlad Putin, who has destabilized Syria, assisted in a likely genocide there, etc.  Again, I think Trump has the potential to bring believably uneducated policies that can wreak havoc on the economy as well as the environment.   Climate Change, which brought on massive droughts, was the match that lit the Syrian war.  It will happen again, and in more places.  To deny it is simply insane.

We also shouldn't pretend that there's any future in them.  Coal consumption in particular has been dropping dramatically, despite the increase in energy needs.

Well, the problem is that these companies have no incentive (in fact, the opposite) to innovate.  The baby boomers aren't a real forward-thinking generation, and the cash is still rolling in.  If someone invented a clean, cheap, renewable energy, it'd be bought and mothballed before it ever reached the public.

The problem with ripping Trump for his connection to the oil companies is that Hillary was right there with him.  http://fortune.com/2016/09/07/hillary-c … donations/

Once again, we had two absolute garbage candidates.