Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Rumor has it that WB is looking at Mel Gibson to direct Suicide Squad 2. This could be interesting. He is a great director. I guess he won't be working with RDJ on an Iron Man movie if this happens!

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Ben Affleck's performance as Batman is one of the best things about the DC Extended Universe and absolutely critical in a consistent continuity that's being built film by film -- as opposed to the pre-Daniel Craig Bond films where each film seemed to pick, choose and reinvent previous films for the sake of the present. The DC Extended Universe has been marketed with Affleck's talents being a massive draw for an audience. If Warner Bros. puts so much weight and prominence and responsibility on Affleck and then can't maintain a relationship with him, then they prove themselves unable to manage this cinematic continuity or any movies at all. It will be a public relations disaster and the DC films will be the laughingstock of superhero films.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

That is... an exaggeration.

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This is strictly a personal opinion:

This is "The Exodus" for the DC Extended Universe. John Rhys-Davies defined SLIDERS; Ben Affleck defines the DCEU and when you hire a big name actor who is highly in demand and whose name brings prestige and weight to your series and then you can't make things work with him, then it's over.

A version of SLIDERS that couldn't keep John Rhys-Davies around wasn't worth airing; a DCEU where Ben Affleck wants to quit after one major appearance isn't worth any further consideration. If Ben Affleck's out, I give up, I'm not giving more money to a film series that can't do something as unbelievably basic as not losing the actors who play the main characters.

Oh, we just lost Matt Reeves, too.

505 (edited by Informant 2017-02-18 17:43:45)

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

And you're free to do that. But the loss of JRD didn't kill Sliders. It was the entire production that killed Sliders. That failing production is what resulted in JRD leaving, it wasn't boredom or whatever. Many franchises have lost their lead and carried on just fine.

If you're looking for an out, you should take whatever you can get. I have liked the movies thus far, so I'm not declaring the franchise dead until the product itself calls for it.

The Thor movies have suffered the loss of directors and actors. That branch of the franchise has actually been a pretty big mess. But the overall franchise continues in nonetheless.

Also, Affleck would be leaving after two major films, and one (possibly two) smaller roles in other films.

And Matt Reeves was never signed as director. We didn't lose him.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

If you look at Marvel, they had a big change with Hulk when Ruffalo took Ed Norton's place; and it didn't affect anything.  Personally, I've never liked Ruffalo in the part.  I would have much rather had Norton, but he tried to take control of the production like he usually does and that's that.

With these DC movies, the thing with Affleck is that I really don't care if he stays or goes.  I don't care if any of the actors stick around; it's still going to be the same quality no matter who goes in there.  For me, that means largely unenjoyable.

My mom recently came across Batman v Superman on HBO.  She enjoys a wide range of movies; loved the first two Nolan Batman movies and likes the Marvel movies.  With Batman v Superman she had two main comments. She thought the story jumped around all over the place and was hard to follow; and she asked me why Batman and Superman were depicted as evil.  She's a casual consumer of this stuff at best; a good representation of the average watcher.  But that was her take away - Batman and Superman were evil.

The actors aren't the problem; but the real problem is what could drive away the actors.  The real problem is the tone.  Nolan's Batman had a darkness to it; but you knew who the hero was.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

In my case, I really like the actors and losing Affleck is simply unprofessional especially at this early stage. In the case of the Marvel movies, I missed Edward Norton as Bruce Banner and preferred Terence Howard as Rhodey, but they were used as supporting characters when new actors took over. Affleck is a star and a lead. To lose him at the start is just awkward and embarrassing no matter how anyone may try to spin it.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

It's not really the start at this point, is it?

I guess I just see it differently. It isn't unprofessional, because it has always been a part of the profession. It sucks when it happens. I'm not saying that I like it at all. But it happens. I know that it is Ben Affleck on the screen. I am never convinced that he is actually Batman. So while he may do that job well, I know that others have played that same role well in the past. I would say "oh well, that sucks" and then go on watching the movies, the same way I would if they recast the lead in a Broadway show. I like Angela Lansbury in Sweeney Todd, but Helena Bonham Carter was also good, in a different way.

But then, I watch movies differently than most people. And of course, this is all still hypothetical. There is no evidence that Affleck actually wants out, any more than there is evidence that massive reshoots completely changed Suicide Squad. And if they do recast, they may end up with someone I hate. I have no interest in watching Leonardo DiCaprio or Matt Damon in the role.

And screw Norton! I want Eric Bana back as the Hulk!

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Well, Affleck has been the glue so far.  He's the connection between BvS and Suicide Squad.  He's the guy doing the legwork in organizing the Justice League from the trailer.  If he's gone, it's a huge hole to fill and would have to be done correctly.

We've discussed this a lot, but the main problem with the characterization in BvS is the way the script seemed to be altered.  From what I can figure from interviews with different people behind the scenes, the script was supposed to be Superman saving Batman from the depths of his own demons.  Batman is blinded by rage and ends up like one of the villains that he's fought his whole life.

The problem is that Snyder or the studio or whoever wanted to make a Batman film.  So Batman had to be the hero.  If Batman is the hero, Superman has to be someone that Batman should rightfully fear/hate.  So Batman, while essentially filling the same role as Lex Luthor in the film, is painted as the hero.  Superman, while not doing much of anything to deserve the hatred from Batman, is painted in a villainous way to justify Batman's crusade.

I've said it before, but a movie where Batman is the villain would've been amazing.  It'd humanize Superman, continuing the work done in Man of Steel, and Batman's redemption would move right into Justice League.  Because Batman is a bad guy, even in the final cut.  He's a brutal vigilante, an obsessive maniac, and a murderer.

Instead, we get a movie where Bruce is painted as the hero, while Lex Luthor is identical and is painted as a villain.  Where the hero, Superman, gets very little humanizing and whose own mysteriousness comes off as "dark" or "uncaring", and where it's hard to understand anyone's motivations.  Throw in the massive cuts, and the movie just struggles to form an identity.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

I would disagree with that view of BvS (even if we are just discussing the theatrical cut). But we've discussed that a bunch already, so I won't go into it. smile

You really do need to watch the Ultimate Edition.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

My view is that actors matter, people matter, because these are the specific faces and characters we're letting into our hearts. The unprofessional part of Affleck leaving (if he leaves) is that the DCEU is being sold on the strength of Affleck's acting and reputation at this point. They asked their audience to invest in the construction of the DCEU with Affleck as one of the pillars.

And Affleck isn't playing Jimmy Olsen or Chloe Sullivan's street coffee vendor; he is playing Batman. If you're going to have someone play that role that prominently, you should make sure this actor is locked in to play this character long-term and make sure the relationship between the actor and the studio is solid and if you can't do that, find another actor. If Marvel replaced Robert Downey Jr. a few movies in, the MCU would be game over for me too, and that's what I see happening here if Affleck's departure comes to pass.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

The problem with Batman, though, is that I don't really see any reason for Batman to be so angry.  Yeah, people died as a result of the fight in Metropolis, but from the looks of things, pretty much everyone was okay with it.  The world seems to understand that the collateral damage was a result of Superman trying to save the world, and that's that.  They built a statue to him in the same city that he participated in destroying, so it's hard to say that he's hated.  No one tries to arrest him at any point.  The military wanted to talk to him at the end of Man of Steel, but they seemed to trust him.  The government wants to talk to him, but it's not about Metropolis.

Superman has proven himself in the public eye, and he spends months doing nothing but good.  It doesn't take much investigation on Lois' part to find that Superman isn't guilty of the attack in Africa, and that's the *only* thing that Superman has done since the Battle of Metropolis that isn't heroic.  Batman being angry in the immediate aftermath of the Zod fight is understandable, but he's one of the few people who doesn't let it go...especially as Superman continues to save people.

The only other people in the movie who are openly anti-Superman are Lex and Wally, who are both insane and murderous.  The villains of the story.  Batman is clearly unhinged, murderous, and villainous.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

It has nothing to do with the studio. If we believe the rumors about him leaving, we probably have to believe the rumors about why. A movie didn't do as well as he had hoped, and he is in a funk about it. That has nothing to do with the studio or the DCEU, it has to do with Ben Affleck. Unfortunately, he can afford to break contracts and turn down work. I'm not entirely sure that anyone in the MCU has that ability on that level, aside from maybe Samuel L Jackson (though Chris Pratt is getting there). Even RDJ's comeback and newer success is very closely tied to Iron Man.

Maybe it's because I've spent most of my life reading as much about what goes into making a movie as I have spent time actually watching movies, but I'm firmly in the "sh*t happens" camp. No matter what business you're in, things happen. People come and go. This is why they invented the saying "the show must go on".

How they handle it will be what matters. If they choose to find a new actor, they need a good one. But they don't even really have to. There is enough story to survive with Batman off camera. He isn't the glue that holds it all together. He is a character who has served a purpose in some of the stories. The DCEU doesn't fall apart without him. He wasn't in Man of Steel and that was a great movie. They won't edit him out of Justice League (probably...) so by the time this becomes an issue, Superman will be back, Wonder Woman will be well established, the team will be put together, and the Aquaman movie probably won't need him anyway.

Man of Steel 2 doesn't need him either.
Gotham City Sirens would actually be a good place to introduce other Bat-family members, so that could work too.

I'm not saying that he hasn't served a purpose, but he isn't the sun around which the whole thing revolves.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Batman isn't villainous. He and Superman are both being manipulated into destroying each other. The way Lex manipulates people in the movie, while coming across as this annoying millennial, is actually pretty well done.

Batman is also being thrown off by the visions that he is seeing.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Alright, I've had enough of this. As the moderator, I have decided that some opinions are simply unwelcome and unacceptable. Slider_Quinn21, I forbid you from voicing any further opinions about BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN from this moment forward on this board and declare this ban to exist in perpetuity --

Unless you watch the god-damn Ultimate Edition for goodness' sake we can't have any productive conversation about it until we have a common frame of reference holy S-word I will Paypal you the thirteen bucks for the DVD when will we move on!?

As for Affleck -- I just don't see why anyone would do JUSTICE LEAGUE with Superman, Batman and Wonder Woman but then no Batman. Why do a JUSTICE LEAGUE film series with the trinity if the trinity is to be reduced to a duo? I mean, I guess you could make the movie anyway just as you could keep making SLIDERS without Professor Arturo and do a HARRY POTTER movie without Hermione or a THREE MUSKETEERS movie without D'Artagnan -- but these projects would ultimately be hobbled and crippled.

Yes, the JLA has had periods where Green Lantern and Vixen and Bloodwynd and the D-list were headlining the team, but at the end of the day, films are for a mainstream audience and the version of the JLA embedded in cultural consciousness is Superman, Wonder Woman and Batman -- and that version is not not Kon-El, Donna Troy and Dick Grayson, nor is it John Henry Irons, Hippolyta of Themyscira or Jean-Paul Valley/Terry McGinnis/Jim Gordon. It's Clark, Diana and Bruce. Yes, you could probably film and distribute a JLA movie without Bruce, but wouldn't that defeat the purpose of this series -- which was to have these versions of these icons exist in this consistent and developing continuity?

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

I'm not saying that it would be ideal. Obviously, that isn't the plan. But I think it could be done, and the resulting movies could be solid. We have the icons for the introduction at least, so by the time it becomes an issue, we have other established members. Plus, it seems like Justice League is being used as a way to introduce the new characters before spinning them off anyway. It is the launching pad, so it makes sense to have characters come and go from the JL movies.

Or recast him. Either way wouldn't be the best option, but either one could work well enough. The MCU is full of characters that most people never heard of before the movies, and they still manage to make money despite their horrible writing.

I had to add a jab.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

ireactions wrote:

Alright, I've had enough of this. As the moderator, I have decided that some opinions are simply unwelcome and unacceptable. Slider_Quinn21, I forbid you from voicing any further opinions about BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN from this moment forward on this board and declare this ban to exist in perpetuity --

Unless you watch the god-damn Ultimate Edition for goodness' sake we can't have any productive conversation about it until we have a common frame of reference holy S-word I will Paypal you the thirteen bucks for the DVD when will we move on!??

Hahah, it's not a matter of money.  I've overloaded myself with TV shows and haven't had the patience to devote 3 hours to it.  In addition to the couple dozen shows I'm watching, I'm also trying to get through the original run of Twin Peaks before May.  And Rick and Morty.

This summer, I'll get to it.  Until then, I'll abide by the ban! smile

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Oh, we got Matt Reeves to direct THE BATMAN after all!

519 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-02-23 16:45:12)

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant … wing-movie

We're also getting a Nightwing movie.  I guess he'd have to be introduced in the Batman?  Either way, this is the first official confirmation that Dick Grayson exists!

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Good news all around. I'm really excited to see Nightwing on the big screen. DC continues to make me happy with these movies.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

If anyone really wants to come to appreciate the DCEU, check out The Death of Superman Lives. It's available from Showtime now.

Wow. So many people making so many wrong decisions, and taking it completely seriously. Nothing about the new DC movies is anywhere near as wrong as this. Their whole approach to Clark/Superman was backwards and wrong, and it informed their whole project.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Well the DCEU is Oscar-winning now tongue

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Yeah! So ha!

Of course, the Oscars are a completely meaningless sham and I wouldn't want one of those things in my house if you paid me (is it really an honor to get the same award that they give to child rapists?)... But ha anyway.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

All that matters is



Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant


It was justified too. Not only was Killer Croc really cool, but Harley's look became iconic before the movie even came out.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Now they're saying that Wonder Woman is good, but Justice League is a mess.

I'm going to go ahead and believe that all of these super secret insider reports are BS.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Okay, since the dust has been kicked up online again, I have to get back into this...

I keep seeing articles about how the DC slate needs to be scrapped and how it's such a failure. They say that even if they made money, they're being ripped to shreds by critics (which is a bit like a politician being ripped by pundits... it doesn't actually matter in the end).

Math time!!!

Suicide Squad had a budget of $175 million.
Domestic earnings: $325,100,054   
Foreign earnings: $420,500,000
Total: $745,600,054

Doctor Strange had a budget of $165 million.
Domestic earnings: $232,532,923
Foreign earnings:  $443,382,684
Total: $675,915,607   

Now, the fun thing to point out about the foreign earnings is that Suicide Squad was not released in one of the biggest world markets, China. Therefore, the Chinese earnings for Suicide Squad are $0. Meanwhile, Chinese earnings for Doctor Strange are $109,194,913. So if we want to test "success", rather than "earnings", as these articles claim to be doing, we should probably lose $100 million from the Doctor Strange numbers then, right?

Yes, Civil War made more money than BvS. As we've discussed before, this is largely due to the fact that the DC movies aren't aiming for younger audiences, so families aren't likely to go see them over and over again. However, DC did make up for this by releasing a movie which was specifically targeted at children, the LEGO Batman movie. No articles written about the great DC/Marvel war (which I still say isn't a thing) have acknowledged the fact that Warner's plan isn't entirely dependent on the DCEU movies. Batman, the brand, has appeared in three movies within the past 12 months. Each of those has been successful in reaching their desired target. I'm not aware of any Marvel projects that are doing this same thing, making hundreds of millions of dollars at the box office, but feel free to mention any that I don't know about.

So let's review overall profits (subtracting budgets):

Marvel/Disney (Civil War + Doctor Strange) - $1,414,220,102

DC/Warner (BvS, SS, Lego Batman) - $1,341,335,084*

*The LEGO Batman movie is still in theaters and earning money

The difference in profits (not counting any licensing deals or marketing budgets, because Hollyood accounting is impossible to navigate): $72, 885, 018

In conclusion... It's China's fault. smile

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

LEGO killing it, but remember that's a children's comedy.  As for Dr. Strange, that one was never counted on as a blockbuster for Marvel.  It's esoteric.  However, it's part of the Marvel roadmap, and keeps the fans happy.  Suicide Squad fits where?  The biggest carryover characters are Harley and Joker.  Harley I feel is a terrible character to be the lead, and despite Margot's hotness, won't carry a film.  The Joker without Batman?  No thanks.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

That's what I like about the way DC did this past year. The Lego movie is 100% for kids, but it frees up the other movies to be more for adults. They didn't need to dumb down or clean up BvS or Suicide Squad, yet they still made profits on the same level as Disney/Marvel.

I disagree about Harley. I think she is a very complex character, so I can see her anchoring a movie. But keep in mind, Gotham City Sirens is really another ensemble.

As for Doctor Strange, I think it was about the same level as Suicide Squad, in terms of what level the character is in the grand scheme of things. It's a B-level Marvel movie, like Suicide Squad is B-level DC. I would put Ant Man in there too. Thor should be A-level, but he really isn't. I don't expect much from his movie.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

New Wonder Woman trailer. Looking really good so far.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant … 202009104/

Affleck has been in rehab. Probably explains why he has lightened his load a bit.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant … d#/slide/1

No. No. No. No. No. No. NO.

Don't rush a movie out.  Don't do it.  Do not.

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Again, I think that people are blowing this up into more than it is. The studio is looking at options and seeing if there is anything that they can shift around and put out sooner. Their schedule is always shifting, usually for good reasons, so I don't think we should panic yet. If they decide to force an FX-heavy film out too quickly, they will regret it. They can't afford to get GL Corps wrong after the last movie flopped.

A movie without any huge visuals could be put together pretty quickly, and DC has many characters who could be used for a relatively low budget, visually simple movie. Their visual style for the franchise even supports something less grand. So that's an option. Even Nightwing could be more grounded and require less post-production work.

But odds are, they won't force anything that they're not certain of. Most of the options listed would require too much pre-production and post-production work. Anything Green Lantern, Flash or Justice League Dark will take too much work. Suicide Squad 2 is an option, depending on how much of a concept they already have. Same for Sirens, I suppose. They would only have nine months to do this... It isn't impossible, but I'm not going to invest too much in this right now.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Just for some perspective, Sony just announced a Venom movie that I believe is scheduled for October 2018. They haven't written it yet, so it is probably pretty early on. There is a chance that some of these DC ideas are further ahead in the process.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Informant wrote:

Just for some perspective, Sony just announced a Venom movie that I believe is scheduled for October 2018. They haven't written it yet, so it is probably pretty early on. There is a chance that some of these DC ideas are further ahead in the process.

I think the Venom movie is also a terrible idea.  I think Sony is doing some really bizarre things with the Spider-Man property.  He's part of the MCU, but there's going to be a spin-off that isn't?  And there's going to be an animated Spider-Man movie that's unrelated to anything?

I know that Lego Batman is running at the same time as the DCEU, but that feels more like a Lego movie than a Batman movie.  The Spider-Man movie is just going to be a Spider-Man movie.  Maybe that's a weird line that I'm drawing, but it's just strange that Sony is going to have three entirely separate Spider-Man franchises going at the same time.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Agreed. And the animated movie (which may be Miles Morales, not Peter Parker) will have to be worthy of a theatrical release. Most of these animated movies are straight to DVD, so it is odd to release this in theaters. It seems like they're upset about Disney getting Spider-Man, or they're trying to hold onto the rights... I don't know.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Well, at the end of the day, everyone wants what Disney has right now.  Say what you want about the MCU and Star Wars, but they're licenses to print money.  It's a series of movies that will carry on until the genre falls off.  Star Wars is going to do a movie a year for the rest of our lives, and I'm sure it's nice to have 1-2 Marvel movies that they can count on generating some profit.

WB wants that with the DCCU.  Sony wants that with a Spider-Man universe (which they were trying before they decided to share the rights with Disney).  Universal wants it with their MonsterVerse (which they tried to start with Dracula: Untold and will now restart with the Mummy), and Legendary wants it with their MonsterVerse.

And I get it.  DC wants to slot these movies and make their money while they can.  But I don't ever advocate rushing a movie, especially when the previous movies have had mixed reactions.  Take your time and make sure the movies are good.

Because, honestly, making a movie more about a release date than a movie is what Marvel does.  It's why their movies are so generic and cookie cutter smile

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Yeah, I always give credit to Disney for their marketing skills. Like Apple, it doesn't even matter what they put out most of the time. They have it a bit easier with the Marvel movies, because this is really the world's first on-screen exposure to most of these characters, so they can do basic origin stories and basic sequels. DC has a lot more history to compete with. They have to be different, but critics don't like different. It's a hard balance.

I'm curious to see how Homecoming does, because this is the first time that Marvel will have the problem that DC has. People will be comparing actors, costumes and directors like Marvel has never seen before. I'm sure it will do well, but it isn't as simple as Iron Man or Captain America.

The Star Wars movies are a whole other story. The franchise thrived when it was three movies. Nostalgia helped a lot. The second trilogy is mostly forgotten. The Force Awakens did well, but really wasn't good. I'm curious to see how much the franchise can be diluted before fans lose interest. Just as Marvel hasn't had to face DC problems until now, Star Wars hasn't had to deal with Star Trek issues until now.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Do we think Superman is going to show up in the promotional campaign for Justice League, or are they going to pretend like he's actually dead? smile

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

They should reveal him, but maybe later. He could be "dark" Superman when he returns, so maybe have him facing away, or hovering above the others. But we all know he is in it. Henry Cavill keeps posting about it, so it isn't any kind of mystery. They should just own it and use it in their promotional material somehow.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

The first Justice League poster released was a picture of Aquaman with the words "Unite the Seven" written on it. So... Who would be the seven?
Wonder Woman
The Flash

People think it is Green Lantern, but I think Henry Cavill is teasing that a little hard if it's supposed to be a mystery.

Black Adam? Dwayne Johnson was cast a long time ago, for a movie that won't be coming out for a while. And they have a Black Adam, but no word on Captain Marvel himself. So... Maybe?

Or it could mean something else entirely, I suppose.

Re: DC Movie Universe by Informant

Well, the campaign is now "Unite the League" - I'm guessing there were alternate plans that fell through.  There's rumors that Green Lantern is gonna show up.  Could be Martian Manhunter since he's always been a part of the team, but there's been zero indication of that.

I'd say it's just going to be the six we've seen.

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Maybe. But they're not even showing Superman at this point, so you never know! I just enjoy the anticipation. I really like having stuff to look forward to.

Joy. Fun. Happy! Excitement! Excessive positivity!

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The new trailer is out.  Looks really fun!

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I saw it. It looks great. The group dynamic looks really interesting. I like what they're doing with Aquaman. It looks fun, but not like a Saturday morning cartoon. The trailer reminded me that we could see entire armies of Amazons and Atlantians. That could be cool.

It's weird that we all know that Superman will be back, but they're making me very eager to see how and when that happens.

So far, so good.