Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I honestly can't wrap my head around the reveal because I don't understand why Savitar would or could kill Iris. I'll have to see how it's explained, because I also ruled out Jay being Zoom based on how they'd been seen together.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Checking to make sure Informant is still alive after that episode of Olicity....er, I mean, Arrow.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

so the big nad is a future flash, this is a huge wow, but with a vivid memory another wow.

so why didn't he take out the team one by one in their sleep, or just go to star labs release all the big bads to keep team flash busy then go kill the scientist lady.

i give the show credit it still is a fun watch.  best new show on tv week to week but wow.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

"I am the future Flash." What a great reveal! It makes no sense whatsoever in terms of what we know so far -- are we really to believe that any version of Barry Allen in any time or place would kill Iris? But it's still a great line.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I can only think that it's some sort of self-flaggelation.  He wants to hurt himself because of what he's done, and the best way to do that is to kill Iris.

Or Savitar is using one of those face-switching things to mess with Barry, and there's ONE REVEAL LEFT.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Have they ever tried giving an explanation for how Harry and/or HR even lives on Earth 1?  Does he have a fake ID?  A credit card?  Did/do they both live at STAR labs?  Does HR have any money?  It's basically a Sliders situation....he shouldn't exist.

Now that I think about it, money is never mentioned.  Are Caitlin and Cisco still employed at STAR Labs?  Who owns it?  Did Harrison Wells leave it to one of them?  And, if so, did he also leave other money?  Who's financing any of this?

At least with Arrow, they've used Queen money to pay for everything.  Although I have no idea whether or not Oliver has any money or if Felicity is still running PalmerTech or if any of those businesses still exist.

I find it best not to ask these questions too much, and one of the worst things about the middle seasons of ARROW was how Queen Consolidated's earnings was played as this huge deal, except when Oliver lost his company and money, he didn't seem to have any trouble finding a place to live or constantly buying gadgets and supplies.

With regards to THE FLASH, there's the unspoken sense that Eobard Thawne's future knowledge and genius and assuming the Harrison Wells identity would have meant that STAR Labs continues to generate revenue through patents. That said, THE FLASH is a show that often does not withstand the scrutiny of real world considerations. You might ask;

  • How did the Pipeline villains use the bathroom?

  • Why was STAR Labs continuing to rent a massive facility for a staff of three people and one coma patient?

  • Why does nobody besides Barry Allen work in the crime lab and why did no one make use of the lab in Barry's year-long coma?

  • Why is Barry even allowed to work as a forensic scientist when, having recovered from a coma, he would have to pass a battery of psych and physical tests or risk his evidence being dismissed as unreliable in court?

  • Why does Barry lack a department head or supervisor at the police station?

  • Why did Barry never seem to go home in Season 1? Where was he sleeping?

The answer to all of the above, of course, is that THE FLASH is a fantasy adventure series.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Checking to make sure Informant is still alive after that episode of Olicity....er, I mean, Arrow.


Is it me, or did Felicity immediately go back to using cry voice as soon as the topic of their relationship came up? I don't know... I actually didn't mind them getting drunk and having a moment. They were actually smiling! And for a legitimate reason, not some sappy shipper moment. But yeah, it was heavy-handed on the relationship drama, and seemed to open up a door that I want welded shut forever.

This is the part where I should say things like "Why is Felicity paralyzed?! They never showed that in the first two seasons, but here in season three, she is paralyzed!" but I won't do that. smile

When the couldn't get out of the lair and everyone else was trying to get in, my first thought was "Think like a bad guy." They could have gotten out of there without any trouble!

And Cisco is so not the person to turn to if you want a secret lair that nobody can get into.


When Diggle was giving Lyla a hard time for taking Curtis' tech, I had to wonder if his reaction would be the same if Cisco did the same thing. I mean, he does do the same thing all the time, doesn't he? He takes someone's gadget, breaks it down, rebuilds it with new features, and gives it back. Nobody ever seems to mind.

Where is Thea!?!

And why did Felicity never stop to think that maybe the people who gave her the USB drive that she plugged into her computer seconds before an EMP went off could be responsible for that attack?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Enh.  I'm behind on watching, so I can only respond based on comments.  It seems to me that if they were going to go this route, the season should have been a mystery of "Who is Barry Allen?"  He could have returned from Flashpoint a little "off" but it would progressively get more and more alarming during the season.  I think it would have been a good counterpoint to season one by having a reverse of the Reverse Flash story where Barry isn't what he seems and ends up being the speedster villain of the season.  They could have even completed the circle by having Thawne show up to try to warn them and nobody believing him.

But like many of the ideas we've had since season one, what we get feels half baked.  I think it's still the production team being stretched too thin; and if that's it, it's only going to get worse with Black Lightning and Titans now in the mix.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

They should do 11 episodes of Legends and 11 episodes of Black Lightning, or save one for summer. Having all of these shows on at one time is going to be too much. The CW needs more variety.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Supergirl had another direct reference to Batman tonight.  He's never gonna appear (or even get a proper mention) but it's nice to know he's out there smile

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Re: The Flash

Their explanation makes sense.  He's a time remnant who was forgotten and ignored (and they only did that because they were already fractured at that point, I assume) and so in order to create himself, he has to kill Iris.  It's dumb time travel logic, but it holds (some) water.

My issue is with the rest of the episode.  I get that you don't want an amnesiac as a titular hero.....but the plan worked.  Savitar was pacified, and he could've been taken down.  Barry was prepared to kill himself to kill Savitar....why wouldn't everyone be okay with him (temporarily) losing his memories?

I get that the building was on fire, people were in danger, and Flash didn't have control of his powers.  But Barry seemingly had better control of his powers the first time, and while Wally said he could explain how to Flash to him, he didn't try.  I think they should've stuck with the plan.

And even though Wally didn't have his powers (so there wasn't a speedster on Earth One who could fight Barry), Cisco's powers still worked.  Go grab Jesse.  Or Supergirl.  Or, and I hate to harp on this (no I don't), Team Arrow could handle an amnesiac Barry, right?  If Flash-Barry can't control his powers, why would Savitar?

Re: Savitar.  Barry and Time-Remnant Barry shouldn't be any different, right?  They're essentially the same person with no memories.  So why does Barry wake up all happy and cheerful and Savitar wakes up and immediately attacks Killer Frost?  That's implying that Savitar-Barry is naturally evil, and I don't think that's what they're going for.

I also don't understand how this round of time travel causality works.  If Savitar losing his memories takes away Wally's speed (because Savitar couldn't create Kid Flash), why does Savitar exist at all?  Following the causality loop....would the Savitar Time Remnant need to be created...so Savitar shouldn't exist.

It could've been a really fun episode (like Smallville's "Blank" was), but it ended up being a bit of a mess IMO.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

After the showstopper of Savitar's reveal, this light diversion felt oddly misplaced with Savitar dumping some exposition before disappearing for an episode. The explanation for Savitar is... adequate? But it's a shame he's not a time remnant previously created on the show or a result of Flashpoint or in any way tied to the present Barry and Barry's character.

It would have worked better if this remnant had been the one who seemingly sacrificed himself to stop Zoom, alive but scarred, insane and furious at Barry having abandoned him and not even considering him real.

As for this episode -- it's an episode of THE FLASH in which Barry isn't the Flash, and I wish they would not make such episodes.

Can't really quibble with SQ21 noting all the problems in the time travel logic.

Never has TF felt more on point to say there are too many shows and too few showrunners.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

ireactions wrote:

It would have worked better if this remnant had been the one who seemingly sacrificed himself to stop Zoom, alive but scarred, insane and furious at Barry having abandoned him and not even considering him real.

I actually thought that's where they were going when Savitar-Barry mentioned Zoom.  I thought they played sorta loose with the idea that Barry was "killing himself" last season with the time remnants, and this would've been an appropriate "consequence" for that.

Like you said, it's adequate. 

The Arrowverse needs some work, for sure.  I don't know what the plan is for Arrow next year....it's been better and they've shown that they don't really need the flashbacks to tell stories (they didn't have them at all one week, and they had a flashback to last year last week).  I think everyone involved knew the show needed to try and get more to its roots, and they've done well with that this year.

Flash needs a soft reboot.  Barry needs to be over all his demons this year, and he needs to be a positive, happy-go-lucky force for good.  The show needs to be fun.

I don't know what I'd do with Legends, honestly.  I still wish it'd be an anthology series, but that ship seems to have sailed.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I was obviously distracted during this week's Flash... Did they say that the time remnants are exact copies, or would he have become a sort of mirror image?

Yeah, I think it would have had more weight to it if this were the consequence of something that our Barry did, but they might have wanted to keep him from having that guilt. The thing is, if they kill Savitar, or stop him in some other way, does their whole world change? If they stop Savitar, does Wally stop being Kid Flash? Does Julian go back to not working with Team Flash?

665 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-05-11 10:40:14)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Informant wrote:

Yeah, I think it would have had more weight to it if this were the consequence of something that our Barry did, but they might have wanted to keep him from having that guilt. The thing is, if they kill Savitar, or stop him in some other way, does their whole world change? If they stop Savitar, does Wally stop being Kid Flash? Does Julian go back to not working with Team Flash?

Wally absolutely should lose his powers.  Just erasing Savitar's memories did that.  Julian was still there so presumably that....still happened?  I have no idea.  Like I said, their time travel logic was worse than usual this week.

As far as I'm aware, Time Remnants are exact duplicates of the person.  That's how it's always appeared (Zoom, Thawne, and Barry)

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Time_remnant

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

SPOILERS / FINALE SPECULATION ON THE FLASH

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So I think we can agree that HR is the one that died to prove that he had a purpose?  Could that possibly mean that Tom Cavanaugh is not coming back next year?  His "scientist" role replaced with Tracy?  Or would we get a 4th (5th?) Wells?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

2017-2018 Lineup

Monday - Supergirl
Tuesday - Flash and Legends
Wednesday - Nothing
Thursday - Supernatural and Arrow

Black Lightning starts midseason, but I just read that it won't be an official part of the Arrowverse?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Re: Arrow (with some Flash and Supergirl spoilers too)

In "how these people could be smarter by understanding that they live in a shared universe" part 271, Flash hid Iris in Earth 2 when he realized she was in danger.  Shouldn't that have been the first place that Oliver (or anyone on Team Arrow) thought to hide?  Especially since Savitar could easily go to Earth 2, and as far as we know, Chase has zero ability to get them there.

One thing, though.  In all three shows, I was impressed by the deep rosters they were able to work with.  Supergirl brought back Cat Grant and Superman, while also having the Luthors working with the full DEO team.  Team Flash was at about 100% to deal with Savitar, adding Harry and Tracy.  And now Oliver is fighting a team of villains and former heroes against a team full of heroes and former villains.  These shows might not be the strongest, but they've built up a pretty cool history that they can work with.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Both shows were pretty strong this week. Arrow had been a lot better this year, which is nice. I think they should just move on from Olicity though. Seriously. It didn't work.

With The Flash... I would have probably sent Iris to Kara's Earth, which goes against everything I believe in as a TV fan, but it is what it is. Harry couldn't help her, and she wound up sitting in an alternate STAR Labs, right next to the machine that brings people to other worlds. At the very least, vibe her to another part of that world! But yeah, a world with superpowered alien allies would have been more preferable to loner Harry, who didn't even have his speedster daughter around.

I do have to wonder though... why not get Jesse? And for that matter, where was Julian? This is the big day that they've been building to, and they didn't even have all hands on deck?


As for who died, I think Iris had to be the one who was stabbed. There was no time for HR to change places with her. However, there has to be a twist, right? Did they find a way for Iris to be stabbed, but survive? I don't know. If it ends up being a switch, where HR died in Iris' place, I just don't think that it makes sense.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Informant wrote:

As for who died, I think Iris had to be the one who was stabbed. There was no time for HR to change places with her. However, there has to be a twist, right? Did they find a way for Iris to be stabbed, but survive? I don't know. If it ends up being a switch, where HR died in Iris' place, I just don't think that it makes sense.

The switch would've happened on-site.  Savitar is holding (the real) Iris in the middle of that square.  Flash gets the cannon and shoots it at him, and Savitar leaves Iris where she was and runs around before Flash finally hits him with it.  It's not a ton of time, but it'd be enough time on this show.  Maybe HR took some of the Velocity drug that Jay created, or maybe they were able to heal Wally enough to swap them out.  Or maybe that's where Jessie or Julian was...helping HR sacrifice himself.

It'd be a bit of a stretch, but that's my guess.  There was too much setup for an HR sacrifice, IMO.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Tom Cavanagh is on contract for Season 4 and so is Candice Patton, and both were announced as being part of Season 4. But no fan of SLIDERS should take it for granted, of course, that actors will remain.

I was very happy to see Harry back this week. As enjoyable as HR is and as much as Cavanagh clearly appreciates playing something new, Cavanagh has always been best as the father figure of the series, as Professor Arturo, and turning him into Mallory this year left the show a bit unbalanced.

It looks like TF was not quite right about HR being Abra Kadabra, although there's still one episode left.

**

ARROW was good. I was surprised to see Deathstroke back and played by Manu Bennett. For the past few months, Bennett had declared that he was not returning to ARROW, that announcements by the producers were vastly overstating his involvement, that it hadn't been him in INVASION and it wouldn't be him in the ARROW Season 5 finale and that he had been greatly displeased with his last episode and that the ARROW producers were reusing previously recorded dialogue and a stunt double to have Deathstroke appear. So it was nice to see him at the end and realize Bennett had been trying not to spoil a surprise.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

ireactions wrote:

ARROW was good. I was surprised to see Deathstroke back and played by Manu Bennett. For the past few months, Bennett had declared that he was not returning to ARROW, that announcements by the producers were vastly overstating his involvement, that it hadn't been him in INVASION and it wouldn't be him in the ARROW Season 5 finale and that he had been greatly displeased with his last episode and that the ARROW producers were reusing previously recorded dialogue and a stunt double to have Deathstroke appear. So it was nice to see him at the end and realize Bennett had been trying not to spoil a surprise.

Someone should've told the CW about how hard Bennett was trying to cover up the idea of him not returning because his return was in the sizzle reel released a few weeks ago. big_smile

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Ah. I never watch trailers.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Tom Cavanagh will probably be with the show forever, but any number of his characters could still die. HR could die and be replaced next year, in keeping with the pattern. Harry could come back more regularly. It's a weird situation, because we always know the behind the scenes reasons for why characters aren't really in any danger, so we never really feel that tension when watching a show. But with the Wells characters, we really don't know!

I think the writers have shown impressive restraint with the Harry character. We know that Tom is a regular on the show, so Harry could be in every episode, if they waned. However, keeping him away and only using him a few times this season has made him feel like a legitimate guest star. When he shows up, you feel like you are seeing an actor return to the show.

The same thing happened with Sara in season 2. I'd go weeks, wondering when she would reappear... then I'd realize that she was still in the flashbacks, so Caity Lotz hadn't actually gone anywhere.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I sometimes wonder what the difference is between being restrained and being withholding? That said, the story absolutely demanded that Harry return to Earth 2; there was no compelling reason for him to stay on Earth 1 once Zoom was defeated.

**

ARROW has had a good season as Stephen Amell was apparently successful in convincing the producers to give up on magical resurrections and telekinetic villains and return to street-level storytelling.

There's been some awkward hiccups here and there, obviously -- the Black Siren tease was misguided, Evelyn turning her back on Oliver for being a murderer and signing up with the cop-killing, innocent slaughtering Prometheus remains incomprehensible, Wild Dog giving up his daughter because he spilled soup was bizarre, Thea's absences have been oddly random -- but on the whole, it's been a really great season of moral quandaries, psychological exploration, experimental storytelling (an entire episode of Oliver being tortured! A bottle episode in the bunker! New recruits!) and a very good return to form.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I agree.  I think these writers are better at story, and I think they have a decent understanding on who Oliver is and what makes him tick.  I think they have a respect for the material, and I think tying it all back to the island (where the flashbacks and the main story can finally converge) is pretty cool.

But, yeah, they make some bizarre decisions regarding character motivation.  Oliver's kill/no-kill policy has always been all over the place, and drudging that moral quandry up doesn't work for me.  Evelyn's whole thing doesn't make much sense.   I don't think Chase's motivations are all that logical.  Wild Dog's whole past is bizarre.

They've shown me enough to trust them to work with season 6.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I doubt Informant has kept up, but I'm guessing he wouldn't have enjoyed the Supergirl finale much.  A lot of sappiness, but also a *ton* of Superman telling Kara that she's better/stronger than him.

I actually thought it was pretty good.  The Superman/Supergirl fight was a bit understated, but I thought it was pretty well done for a CW budget.  All in all, I've been pretty impressed that I haven't really noticed much of a difference in the budget from CBS to CW (Metallo's awful suit notwithstanding).  Man of Steel is a more realistic depiction of the carnage that would be created by Kryptonian-on-Kryptonian brawls, but for TV, I thought it was pretty cool.

I also sorta love the little hints that Superman has been in an 11-season show, and we're seeing glimpses of it.  He drops hints of Warworld, and the Zod stuff is simply played off as if we already know who he is.  I thought that was a pretty cool way to do the Supergirl/Superman fight.  I don't love Tyler Hoechlin as Superman, but I think he works for the show.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, The Flash finale has aired...

You called it with HR dying, which is sad.

I am outraged that they got rid of Barry! This was obviously done because the studio didn't want two Barry Allen's at one time, so they got rid of him, just like Amanda Waller. We should start a petition! Wally is a bland character who can't carry the show!

I'm kidding, of course. We all know that Barry will be back... Right? The real question is, how does Wally have powers? If Savitar is wiped from the timeline, shouldn't his deeds be undone?

How do we think Barry will return? And do you think they will move on from Star Labs, or just fix it up? Will Caitlin ever come back to the group? With she take the cure and get her hair back to normal?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I already deleted it, and I forgot....was Tracy with the group at the end?  Was Julian?

I actually left sorta hoping that Barry was gone for good....that's sorta where his character has dropped for me.  And Wally wasn't as annoying in the second half of the season...I think being trapped in the Speed Force brought him back down to Earth a bit in a much better way.  I almost think it'd be better for the show if they didn't have Barry's baggage dragging it down.

Of course, they won't do that.  But maybe some time trapped in the Speed Force will do Barry some good.  We need him to FINALLY let go of his demons and just have fun.  Let Oliver be dark and brooding...let Barry be the light of the Arrowverse.

As far as the team goes, they should keep Tracy on board if Caitlin is truly gone (I thought her staying as Killer Frost was a really bold move).  I think Julian could be a good member too.  I'm also hoping Harry stays on too.

It was a very meh season.  We need a soft reboot.  Come back fixed, Barry.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

The past year has been pretty bad for me, and I've missed practically all of the 2016/2017 tv season.   I did the best with Flash, but still missed a good half dozen of those too.

I've only really watched two episodes of Supergirl this year - the premiere and the finale.  In the premiere I saw the potential; and in the finale they delivered. Very well done.   I'm most interested in where they left Mon-el.

Similar to the comics, Mon-el will die of lead poisoning on earth but ends up in the Phantom Zone. In the comics, this was done because the Zone essentially kept a person in stasis - Mon-el's condition would not get worse while they worked on a cure, but it also had the effect of freezing his aging process.  Mon-el spent 1000 years in there until the Legion of Super-heroes stumbled across him, and Brainiac 5 whipped up a cure for the poison.

What I see being set up in the tv series is a potential love triangle situation.  If Supergirl meets up with the Legion next season, then she may follow the comics and get into a relationship with Brainiac 5.  After they've been together awhile, he stumbles on Mon-el in the Phantom Zone.  He can save Mon-el; but what will that mean for his relationship with Supergirl?  Is Brainiac 5 the hero or will he be the villain everyone mistakes him for?

But with the "cliffhanger" tag on the end of the episode, I'm not sure that's in their immediate plans.  That entire sequence screamed Doomsday to me (the skull in the shield?  really?); and I'm excited to think they may actually do something I suggested before season two ever aired.  Could next season tell the comics version of The Death of Superman?

Supergirl would be a great way to explore that story as she becomes the vehicle for taking us to all of these things that are happening.  Supergirl initially finds Doomsday, and he swats her like a fly.  Doomsday marches on until Superman sacrifices himself to stop Doomsday.  Kara feels guilty, and takes Clark's place in Metro; but not for long after a news report hits that a teenage kid has shown up in National City claiming he's Superman.  She goes to check out this Superboy in her city; but while there the Eradicator posing as a Superman shows up because that's where his scans showed the Krptonians on the planet at that time.  Jeremiah Danvers reappears now with more obvious cybernetic enhancements as Cadmus rolls him out as the new Superman (giving us our Dean Cain return in a Superman suit).  While all of this is going on, John Henry Irons is setting himself up as Metropolis's new protector since no one else is there to do it.

It has great, great potential.  I could see it being epic.  But in most cases, I'm usually disappointed by what these production teams end up giving us; so my hopes are not up.

With the Flash finale - we'll, we could have had a lot more fun if HR was Abra Kadabra.  wink  Again, kind of a let down in some ways, but it ultimately was an entertaining episode.  With the ending, I'm just not sure what they're going for.  I guess they're treating this like Barry's death in Crisis where Wally takes over in the red suit?  Then we'll have Barry return after Wally has established himself as the one and only Flash.  If that's their plan, it just seems like an anti-climatic way to set up that story.  Oh well; we'll see.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

When I was watching live, I thought they were referring to Doomsday too.  But the last words were "it will reign" - so people are speculating that they're talking about this character.

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Reign_(Prime_Earth)

I don't know anything about her so I'll defer to any of you guys.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I know that Julian was there, because Barry shook his hand. I think Tracy might have been, but I can't really remember.

The thing to remember is the newspaper. The headline still mentions the Flash disappearing after a crisis, and it's clearly a picture of Barry. So, I don't think that this is that. Unless Barry goes into the future for this crisis, and his "disappearing" is just him going back home to the present. Still, it would mean that his going into the speed force wasn't a take on the comic book storyline where Wally becomes the Flash.

I have not been following Supergirl. Since there are so few other shows to watch, I was considering trying to catch up when it hits Netflix next week, but everything I read about it sounds so bad. I just don't think that I can. I might try to force my way through Agents of SHIELD, but we'll see how that goes.

Did they explain why they wouldn't just send Mon-El to one of the other Earths that Kara is now familiar with? It seems more logical than him flying away in a space ship, if they ever want to see each other.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Yeah, I think there's a less-than-zero chance that Barry is gone.  I just feel like his character is such a mess that it wouldn't be the worst thing if he never came back.  And that's notable since "Barry getting replaced by Wally" was my exact fear going into this season.  Season 3 just left a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd probably check out Agents of Shield before you check out Supergirl.  I still like Supergirl, but I don't think they changed anything.  Shield, at least in my opinion, is noticeably better.

It probably makes more sense to send Mon-El away (with the other Daxamites) because he could, at least, be with his own kind.  Sending him to Earth 1 might make for some interesting storytelling (he'd be the strongest character in Earth One, right?), but I think sending him into space makes more sense (for him) than sending him to a planet where he'd be the only alien.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, that was a heck of a cliffhanger on Arrow.

It was also quite the spectacle.  A ton of characters returning, one big death (off screen but confirmed by the actor), potentially a ton of big deaths (but certainly not), some pretty good action, and the culmination of five years of storytelling.

But I left it sorta "meh" for whatever reason.  I thought it was well acted and well executed, but something about it felt really off to me.  What could've felt like a triumph of Arrow just sorta happened.  I don't know what it really was about it that didn't work for me...was it like that for anyone else?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Arrow finale -

Overall, I liked what they did with the episode. It was pretty much what the 100th episode should have been. It felt like the end of the series that we have been watching up to this point, so I'm curious to see if they take things in a different direction next season.

It would have been nice if they had gotten Caity Lotz to come back, but I guess that would have required a lot of explaining.

I'm glad that Malcolm is dead. I hope he stays that way. His character is just nonsense at this point.

I had a hard time understanding Evelyn, and even Black Siren. At one point, alt-Laurel seemed to feel something toward the people whose doubles she knew back home, but then she shifted back to being eeeeevil without much explanation. However, I did enjoy the battle between so many familiar characters on both sides. Nyssa vs Talia was cool. Slade coming back as an ally is awesome. I could see him becoming a member of Team Arrow, or at least coming in for the big events.

Olicity... gag.

The cliffhanger... Okay, this is a good place to discuss one problem with Adrian Chase. He was a good villain, don't get me wrong. I definitely think that he worked as the villain for this third season of the show, and closing out whatever chapter of Oliver's life they're now closing. However, there were times when he was a little too much of a McGuffin factory. He seemed like some supernatural force of evil that knew what Oliver was going to do, no matter how unusual it was. By always being one step ahead of Oliver, right up until the credits rolled, made Oliver look less capable than he really is. There was no way to explain some of the things that Adrian did.

So yeah, he was a good villain for Oliver to fight, and it's even worse because he actually won in the end. However, it was hard to believe in him as a character. He was more of a representation, or a supernatural creature of some sort.

Now that cliffhanger. They quite possibly just cut the budget of the show by a ton! But let's face it, most of those characters lived. I think Malcolm might really be dead (Malcolm and Crowley in one week... is it Christmas?) but Black Siren, Rene and Dinah will definitely be back, because they've been signed as regulars. Which means that everyone else probably lived too, unless they decide to kill off Slade or William's mother, just for the heck of it. So, how do they survive?

If I were Felicity, I'd probably have just found a way to contact Cisco and have him Vibe the whole team out of there, but that might be too simple.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Informant wrote:

If I were Felicity, I'd probably have just found a way to contact Cisco and have him Vibe the whole team out of there, but that might be too simple.

Don't get me started on the lack of communication between Team Flash and Team Arrow.  Couldn't Barry have fixed 99% of the problems this season?  Barry could've found William before Chase even knew what was happening without putting anyone in danger.

What's funny is that a couple lines of dialogue would fix stuff like this.  "Can't we just get Barry to super-canvass the island?"  "He's not picking up.  Not even Cisco.  Must be something with Savitar."  They do little things like that at times (when it was mentioned that Felicity was looking for something to power the cannon on Flash), but there's not enough of it to avoid question marks.  I know that there needs to be some separation (otherwise Oliver has no reason to do anything but investigate and point Barry in a direction), but for big events like this, they need to acknowledge that they're on their own.

Black Siren has a really bizarre sense of loyalty.  Evelyn was just evil for no reason.  I got nothing on either of their random decisions to be evil.  I also thought Boomerang immediately switching teams was strange.

I actually didn't like Chase as a villain.  I don't know why....it never worked for me.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Captain Boomerang's switch did make sense to me, because I was sitting there, wondering why he was working with Oliver in the first place. When he switched back to the bad side, I was like "Well... yeah."

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I might've missed the dialogue, but did he do it because Chase was evil and he's evil?  Was Chase paying him?  I figure he's more of a soldier for hire...working with whoever is going to pay him.

It's also why I didn't understand why Black Siren was helping Chase.  She didn't have anything to gain by helping him....she was already free.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

They both seemed to be working for Chase because he got to them first. There wasn't much detail on any of it.

I hope we get a good reason for why Black Siren is evil next year. Is this a Killer Frost situation, where she can be saved? Or was she evil before she ever got her powers?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I thought ARROW's Season 5 finale was a good ending to a good season.

**

THE FLASH has been really off this season and there was the overwhelming sense that each individual episode was written without a clear plan for the entire season as a whole. FLASHPOINT made no sense in why Barry's mother being alive meant he never knew Iris or why Joe was a drunk; Barry undid Flashpoint for no particular reason and this led to other irrational changes (Cisco losing his brother, Caitlin having the metahuman gene).

Then there's Caitlin developing a split personality, again, for no reason. There's Savitar seeming to have read a few pages ahead in each script, but at no point was there any real sense that Savitar actually knew the Flash and his friends, so the reveal that Savitar is a future version of Barry didn't really hold any weight, and any impact was diluted by Savitar having nothing to do with Barry's actions, nothing to do with Flashpoint and being the result of something the Flash would do in some future situation we never saw.

We have a series finale where Barry reaches out to Savitar as a friend and the plotline is abruptly dropped for no reason. And then the ending of Season 3 -- for no reason, the Speed Force is suddenly threatening our world and Barry's sacrifice is needed. There was no build to this development, it isn't the result of Barry's actions. There were a lot of strong episodes in Season 3, but, like SUPERNATURAL, nothing cohered at the endpoint.

There were all these great ideas, but the finesse and care and detail was not sustained sufficiently over numerous episodes to make them work over the course of a year and to bring them to a climax at the end.

I get the sense that showrunners Greg Berlanti and Andrew Kreisberg are just really divided across too many shows. ARROW has Marc Guggenheim and Wendy Mericle as the lead producers and their focus on ARROW really helped this year. SUPERGIRL has always had Ali Adler.

LEGENDS and FLASH seem to have received less attention and effort this year with Berlanti working on ARROW and LEGENDS and SUPERGIRL and BLACK LIGHTNING and RIVERDALE and at this rate, Berlanti will be responsible for 95 per cent of all network TV by 2022 and all of it will be crashingly average at best.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Question: Should Power Girl appear on The Flash or Arrow?

The alien thing has already been addressed, right? Would it be cool to see an Earth-1 or 2 version of Kara show up, rather than havin Supergirl cross over whenever they want to use Melissa on the show?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, they need to address where Clark is on Earth-1.  They've made implications that Superman exists in the universe (the biggest example is Rip Hunter's comment about "Men of Steel" in the Legends pilot).  So where is he?  Is he younger than everyone so he hasn't shown up?  Did his pod get knocked off course?  Or is he doing some sort of Red-Blue Blur thing in Metropolis and trying to stay off the radar.

But that's a pretty cool way to bring Kara in.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I'd probably check out Agents of Shield before you check out Supergirl.  I still like Supergirl, but I don't think they changed anything.  Shield, at least in my opinion, is noticeably better.

Why Informant will never want to watch SUPERGIRL in one scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQ0dE6fqEPY

Why Informant will never want to watch AGENTS OF SHIELD, again, in one scene:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCl2ww6JJxA

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Ha, yeah.  Both also used "nevertheless, she persisted."

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

See, I'm not really offended as much as I just think it's bad writing. To take subtle jabs at Trump that are hollow, trying to make him seem like some part of an extreme movement to take away rights and all of that... it just tells me that these writers get their news from Comedy Central and have no idea what they're actually talking about. There's no meaning behind it. There is no clever message. It's hollow, which is the problem that I've had with these shows since the start. They have no soul and no purpose.

Ugh. I was going to give AoS a chance this summer, but now I remember why I dropped the show. It's like watching a mouse on a wheel. Cute for a while, but it ultimately goes nowhere and gets boring. Then it craps all over the place and eats its young, because mice are disgusting.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I want to take a moment to grieve for Informant whose genetic inability to have fun has clearly taken a clear turn for the worse to the point where standard superhero speeches about standing up to tyranny and intimidation have become an obnoxious gauntlet of irritation.

It must be tough for him to get through the day believing that anyone who writes words rejecting "alternative facts" and urging "resistance" must be ignorant and stupid as opposed to having a different point of view. Let us all take a few minutes of silence to reflect upon Informant's torment.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

No, I think that using Trumpisms when referencing Nazi-like organizations or evil alien invaders is sloppy writing. And I am baffled that 8 years of prime Obama material went completely unnoticed by these writers, but I don't actually expect them to hold their King to the same standards as an American President.

But I have fun, and these lines would be fine with me if they existed as weak spots in otherwise solid shows. But they don't.

698 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2017-06-03 14:51:18)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

http://www.superherohype.com/news/39837 … he-thinker

What do we think?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Erica Durance is coming to Supergirl, replacing the actress who played Kara's mother (who is now unavailable).  It's weird to pick her for that role (instead of something else) since I'm assuming a lot of Arrowverse fans also watched Smallville, but it'll be good to see her again.

I wonder if they'll get Tom Welling.  I'm still hoping that the Smallville universe is out there in the multiverse....I'm still shocked that the original Flash universe is officially included and Smallville isn't.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

That is weird. That is so, so weird. How do you replace someone who played such a huge role on the show in the first season, with such a distracting replacement, when you don't even need to bring the character back in the first place? Both Kara's mother and her evil twin are dead.

I like Erica. I've been watching her on Saving Hope, so she's still been on my TV. I just think that this is yet another in a long line of poor decisions made by the producers of this show.