Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe by Slider_Quinn21

Informant wrote:

I just think that these Netflix/Marvel shows would benefit from fewer episodes, or more standalone episodes where the characters are fighting one-off bad guys.

I see the "fewer episodes" stuff from critics and fans all the time.  The 13-episode seasons are a relatively new concept, and a lot of shows are still happily doing 22-23....including comic-inspired shows like Arrow, Gotham, etc.

So when are we going to stop letting writers be lazy?  Are we truly saying that a character like the Punisher or Daredevil doesn't have enough material for 13 episodes?  That's ridiculous - these characters have had 50 years worth of stories in print.  The writers should have enough material for 30-episode seasons.

I think the primary problem with the Netflix shows (and the reason I'm even talking about this now is that I'm a few episodes into Punisher now and can see it happening again) is that they, for some reason, insist on telling *one* story for the entire duration.  Daredevil season 2 split the season up into two mini-seasons (one for Castle, one for Elektra), and Luke Cage split the season based on two villains (one dies and is replaced with another).

But, even in those cases, it's one story.  One villain.  What's crazy is that the show that did this the most, Jessica Jones, was the one show that has a built-in way to *not* tell those stories - the detective agency.  It's a "crime of the week" format that has made shows like these drive for decades.

On Supernatural, Sam and Dean are usually fighting one big monster for a season, but they break that up by doing small stories where they fight a ghost or a werewolf or something.  They aren't central to the main plot, but they can still be fun episodes where the characters learn and grow.  Team Arrow might be fighting Prometheus for a season, but they still take down smaller crime syndicates in the mean time.  Team Flash takes a break from fighting Savitar to fight other, smaller metas.  It's how these shows can do multiple seasons of 23 episodes.

Let Jessica Jones solve some standard murder cases.  Let Daredevil stumble upon a dogfighting ring.  Let Luke Cage beat up a drug dealer that moved into Harlem.  Let Danny Rand rescue a kid who's getting recruited into a street gang.  I know that the Punisher is a revenge-driven story (although, as ireactions points out, it isn't even that anymore in the comics), but the first episode of the Netflix show is just about him saving a kid.  They could do four of those a season and save episodes full of talking.

It would break up the monotony, and it'd give the heroes a few wins along the way.  Because half the reason why these stories feel so long is because, a lot of the time, they're getting *this* close to taking down the villain for them to slip out of the way.  I can't remember how many times Jessica Jones had Kilgrave in her grasp, only for him to slither away.

Tell stories.  Not just one story.  And you'll find that 13 episodes isn't too much.  It shouldn't be nearly enough.

Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe by Slider_Quinn21

I agree... But if they're not going to do stand alone episodes, they need to shorten the seasons. smile

Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe by Slider_Quinn21

Yeah, I wasn't really directing that at you (despite quoting you).  I see the "DO LESS EPISODES" stuff all the time time.  Defenders was only 8 episodes and struggled from the same stuff - it's one story.  If they do one story, 13 episodes is too many.  Eight episodes is too many.  Five is too many.

If they're only going to do one story, don't even bother doing a show.  Do a two-hour movie.

354 (edited by Informant 2018-01-03 22:26:28)

Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe by Slider_Quinn21

Spider-Man Homecoming was an absurd mess of a movie. The plot was a sloppy mess. The characters were a sloppy mess. The writers didn't seem to know whether this was a John Hughs movie or a standard Marvel movie. The continuity was a very distracting mess. I don't get why they would fight so hard to get the character in the MCU, ditch Andrew Garfield just so they can do it their own way, and then have no clear vision for the movie.


And I don't get Marvel's need to have blundering heroes who make things worse every time they show up. Honestly, how many big battles could be avoided in Marvel movies if only their characters weren't such screwups?

By the end of the movie, I wanted Peter to reject the Avengers offer and tell Tony to f*** off, because his f***ing handler wouldn't listen to him for five f***ing seconds, and the whole f***ing movie could have been avoided if they had. The Avengers didn't have Peter's back, so why would Peter even want to be one, or associate with them? Stark almost got Peter and many others killed because he was such an a**hole.

I like Iron Man, the first movie. However, it seems like they've been working hard to make me hate him ever since.

It seemed like they were messing with established characters just for the sake of being different. Why do this "hot Aunt May" schtick?

The movie was such a baffling mess. Why did nobody fix this script? It wasn't like it would have been hard to make a better movie. Did they have a set release date before they started, and just couldn't take the time to do it right?

Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe by Slider_Quinn21

I loved the first Andrew Garfield movie; the second was a mess that reminded me of Joel Schumacher Batman.  Even with that, I wish they had continued on with Garfield’s version.  However, I don’t think that was happening regardless. The leaked Sony e-mails seem to indicate that Garfield got himself fired from the role:

http://www.showbiz411.com/2015/05/01/sp … sony-chief

The Spider-Man series have so far been adaptations of eras in spirit if not fact.  The Toby Maguire years were the original Stan Lee stuff from the 60’s.  Garfield’s version was more the feel of the late 70’s through 80’s Spider-Man from Len Wein, Roger Stern and even Tom Defalco.  And Homecoming is very much an adaptation of the Brian Michael Bendis Ultimate Spider-Man from the 2000s.

Ultimate Spider-man is where Young Aunt May comes from (she was presented as in her 50’s); this is where “chair guy” comes from; it’s really where the overall tone comes from.  And while Tony Stark has changed moods over the years like Batman (going from a happy guy to a grouch who alienated all of his friends), the Ultimate Tony Stark was a true a-hole. This was partly because they turned him into a genetic experiment where his whole body was his brain (which would be why he’s an ultra genius, of course); but also partly because he had cancer and was dying.

Homecoming has some problems.  I didn’t like the high tech suit.  I didn’t like the Stark mentor angle.  That stuff wasn’t in Ultimate Spider-Man either.  I did like the high school stuff.  I liked Spidey bumbling around a little.  I loved what they did with Vulture (making that character “cool” for the first time in my memory).

Overall, I enjoyed it; but it’s faults (namely Stark) kept me from being amazed.  Hopefully the next solo outing for Spidey will give him the full spotlight; but that movie is also slated to be the direct follow up to the Infinity War aftermath, so they’ll probably again be preoccupied with the greater Marvel universe instead of focusing on a true character piece.  This is where Marvel is starting to stumble a bit; they’re forgetting that their success began with individual solo movies that only connected subtly.  That approach gave characters a chance to shine without someone else stealing their spotlight.