Re: Smallville

Oh, Allison...

https://artvoice.com/2018/03/27/allison … sted-next/

Remember when we all thought she was cute and fun? I really want to be able to watch Smallville's again, but I can't right now. It's weird, but I kinda wish she just had mental issues that led to her being dominated by a cult leader. At least that could be treated. But her mental illness doesn't appear to put her in the victim role at all.

It just creeps me out.

If you look at Allison's Twitter posts, they seem... Hollow. Like bot posts in a way. Nicki Clyne is in the same cult, but her posts seem like the posts of an actual person.

The psychology here fascinates me, but the cult itself creeps me out.

52 (edited by Grizzlor 2018-03-28 08:49:21)

Re: Smallville

FAKE NEWS!!!!!  Damn I've been waiting to say that!

Firstly, that article is click bait, and the only reference to her "arrest" is on the freaking  SUN website, a British tabloid rag. 

Secondly, if she were hiding out in Mexico OR on the run from the law, would she have agreed to appear in ATLANTIC CITY, NJ, in April???

https://www.gardenstatecomicfest.com/ac … uests.html

OR agreed to pose for a photo with ME last month in New York??!!!  Yes, I went to one of John Glover's off broadway plays, and to my great surprise, she did as well!

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4766/40252923441_206fd9c3a1.jpg

Thirdly, her involvement in this "cult" was way overblown.  Kristen Kreuk was actually in it first, through her BF at the time.  Then Allison was semi-recruited, and she dated that guy.  However, both she and Kristin came to their senses shortly thereafter and left.

Re: Smallville

FAKE NEWS!!!

That is fun.


The problem is that, while Kristen apparently left the cult years ago (the exact year depends on which source you believe, but it was probably either 2009 or 2012, and her level of involvement is uncertain even before she officially left), while Allison's sit-down interview with Keith Raniere appears to have been released only months before this whole story exploded (In April, so it probably took place just about a year ago now). Also, if she had left the cult and wanted to distance herself from it, surely she would have responded to claims that she was its second in command.

And also, the brandings that have her initials in the design. I could believe a scenario where that wasn't her. Maybe Raniere had some crazy obsession with her and put her initials in there. However, there is no information to lead in that direction.

I don't believe that she was hiding out in Mexico. A look at her Twitter account would disprove that pretty quickly. But however willing I am to listen to Allison's side of the story, and however much I want there to be some sort of logical explanation for it all, I just haven't seen any sign of it. Even if we believe that the cult has pictures that she doesn't want released, or some other information to use against her, that doesn't explain the continued involvement with the cult.

Look, I don't think that anyone who gets involved with a cult is evil, or even stupid. Cults are run by people who know how to prey on peoples' weak spots. However, the unanswered accusations, paired with the evidence of her initials being branded into peoples' flesh, paints a very bad picture.


Cults are a very complex issue, because those who prey on the weak are evil, but those who are preyed upon truly are victims. It can be hard to figure out who fits into which category. If Allison came out tomorrow with her side of this story (or if it were revealed in some sort of testimony), I'd love to see a logical explanation for all of this. I'm certainly nowhere near ready to convict her of any crimes based on the information that I have. However, it just doesn't look good right now. I'm not sure that any amount of incriminating pictures or dark secrets could be worse than this.

Allison was supposed to be on Michael Rosenbaum's podcast, Inside of You, back in November. I was hoping to see the interview and see her sit down with someone in a somewhat safe environment, for a long talk. Even if they didn't discuss the cult thing, I wanted to get a sense of her whole mindset at this point. But I don't believe that the interview ever actually took place.


I'm going to assume that Allison didn't sit down to have a long chat on the subject with you, so is there another source of information that maybe I haven't seen?

Re: Smallville

Hmmm, you're right, sounds like she's still in it, and likely to be charged by the FBI.  Damn.  From what I've read, this scheme is really not much different than Scientology.  It seems to focus on sex, but in reality it's the same thing.  They recruit you, make you spill the beans, and then blackmail you with those secrets from leaving.  They take your money, and force you to do labor for free.  Seems it was bankrolled by a few older women with lots of money.  No she didn't mention it to me!  But one of the rules of Fight Club is you don't talk about Fight Club! 

Frankly I don't see how Scientology continues unimpeded, but unlike this group, they are older with far more money and power.  Tom Cruise has probably done some bad stuff, but I still watch his films without a second thought.  Same with Travolta, Will Smith, anyone else in it.

Re: Smallville

How tall are you, Grizzlor?

56 (edited by Grizzlor 2018-03-28 21:02:44)

Re: Smallville

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

How tall are you, Grizzlor?

lil over 6' 2" same as JOC!

****I will add, after reading the full criminal complaint against Raniere, Allison is accused mainly of recruiting women.  Towards the end there is evidence submitted that she, like many others, gave "collateral" to the group, so that in the event she leaves, they screw her.  Crazy stuff.  Custody of children, money, dirt on her parents, etc.

Re: Smallville

I'll have to read the complaint sometime, when I get the chance. I usually like to look up all of the data for this stuff, but I've been super busy lately.

It's interesting that Kristen left without anything being released about her. I wonder if that was some agreement to go quietly (as they do with Scientology sometimes, when people leave) or if she is just so clean that there is absolutely nothing that can bring her down.

58 (edited by Grizzlor 2018-03-29 10:39:40)

Re: Smallville

Her ex-BF remained though.  Wow, I didn't realize both women joined this thing back in 2005, and Kristin only left in 2012.  Here's the rub though, this thing was largely like Scientology for many years.  It's only recently that the whole master/slave DOS thing really started up, and Allison is potentially culpable for creating that.  They nicknamed her "Pimp Mack!"  She is in serious, serious trouble.  What a shame.

Re: Smallville

i find it all extraordinary confusing. without putting a lot of time in to try to understand.

Re: Smallville

Yeah, it's weird that she was the one who thought that up. This whole thing goes against everything I ever thought I knew about her. It's insane. Scientology has a lot of similarly creepy stuff. If you've never watched Leah Remini's show about Scientology, you should check it out. It's insane.

Kristen probably left when it got super creepy. At least, I choose to believe that until I find out that she kills puppies or something.

Re: Smallville

I've seen Leah's show, yea.  I understand that whole thing.  This?  Not so much.

Re: Smallville

Kristin Kreuk has broken her silence on Twitter:

https://twitter.com/MsKristinKreuk/stat … 3184955393


It must be so surreal for people who worked closely with Allison, or who were close friends with her, to read these things in the press. I mean, do you think that Tom Welling or Justin Hartley were sitting around the set a few years ago thinking "this chick is cray-zee"?

Re: Smallville

This thing was basically a copy of Scientology, that's what drew in the actors, like it does there.  Clearly Allison maintained relationships with people.  I mean when I saw her she had a group of people with her, as well as Glover.  I don't think anybody suspected the master/slave stuff, and apparently that's where she is most culpable. 

As for Scientology, I would skip Leah's show and just watch "Going Clear," the doc is far more damning.  Again, I can't understand how they aren't challenged, but they have a ton of money and power and probably dirt on a lot of people.

Re: Smallville

I've seen Going Clear. It's a fascinating movie. Leah's show pairs well with it, in that we get to see a wider view of the cult and how it has hurt many people in different ways.

I hear that she may branch out to other cults though. Maybe we will get some people to explain what Allison did to them.

Re: Smallville

And there she goes. Allison has been arrested.

https://pagesix.com/2018/04/20/smallvil … lave-cult/

I don't see how anyone can be involved in anything with the word "slave" in it, without any question marks popping up. Most cults at least try to cover things up with more appealing terms.

Was she normal one day, and a total wack job the next? I have so many questions about this, and her role in it!

I swear, I should become a psychologist who specializes in cults. They fascinate me, while still appalling me.

Re: Smallville

jese.

Re: Smallville

and now quinn just tweeted about it!

https://twitter.com/MrJerryOC/status/987444361259438080

it's surreal to me that this was a topic of conversation a year ago here, and now, wham. national news story.

Re: Smallville

It's also surreal to me that it's one of only two things Informant and I ever agreed upon.

Re: Smallville

C'mon. We agree on more than that.

How do you feel about pineapple on pizza? I'm pretty fond of it myself.

Re: Smallville

haha

Re: Smallville

Informant wrote:

How do you feel about pineapple on pizza? I'm pretty fond of it myself.

Dear God. Who would do such a thing? Sour-sweet fruit on a meat pie... ? But it's your pizza.

**

I don't rewatch SMALLVILLE all that much. Season 1 is a mixed mag, Seasons 2 - 7 are a crime against culture, Season 8 is great, Season 9 is excellent, Season 10 is great for the first 13 episodes and then has numerous standout episodes among awkward ones that build to a puzzling series finale of confusion and awkwardness (due to the production problems rather than any lack of talent or ability). However, if I were to rewatch Seasons 8 - 10... I would mentally replace Allison Mack with Kristen Bell (who auditioned to play Chloe).

The really sad thing is that Chloe was a wonderful creation who was introduced into the actual DC Comics and was Jimmy Olsen's (ex-)girlfriend for a time. And while she hadn't appeared in awhile and Chloe's presence in the SMALLVILLE comics made it unnecessary to feature her in the mainstream DC continuity, there was the likelihood that some enterprising writer would incorporate her into the comics once again, making Chloe immortal and exist beyond SMALLVILLE as a TV show and Allison Mack as a performer. That's never going to happen now; DC Comics won't want to go near Chloe Sullivan ever again.

Re: Smallville

That is sad. Smallville has always been a fun show to go back and rewatch when I absolutely do not want to think about what I'm watching. Now the show is hard to go back to, and it is a huge smack in the face to all of the many people who put ten years into making that show. Many of them were great at their job.

Hopefully we will be able to watch the show again someday. And maybe they can cast a new Chloe in the Arrowverse or on Krypton, and repair the damage to the character. Maybe young Bruce Wayne can meet Chloe on Gotham.



And the thing about pineapple on pizza is how the tanginess of the pineapple brings out the sweetness of the tomato sauce! That interaction is golden!


Okay, what else can we maybe agree on? Because if there's nothing else, it's a miracle that we get along as well as we do.

Re: Smallville

We both agreed that Allison Mack was a cultist, abuser, human trafficker and sexual slaver long before it was fashionable to do so. We both enjoyed the JUSTICE LEAGUE movie which the world at large considers a crime against humanity. Many friendships were founded on far less.

**

There is an open source technology recently popularized for its low system requirements which allows a user to digitally replace a person's face with another in pre-existing video footage. It was (of course) first employed to graft the faces of Hollywood actresses onto female pornography performers engaging in performative sex acts.

I propose that we assemble a bank of (used) Playstation 3s to form a makeshift rendering farm, map Kristen Bell's face using box sets of the three seasons of VERONICA MARS, and begin digitally replacing Allison Mack in SMALLVILLE with Kristen Bell instead and hire noted impressionist Robert Floyd (Mallory on SLIDERS) to re-record all of Mack's dialogue in Bell's voice. I propose we use the magic of CGI to remove Allison Mack from every single hour of television she ever performed, expunge her from every single frame of film and leave her with nothing but her crimes.

But to be realistic, anyone wanting to use Chloe before would probably just use Felicity Smoak instead and right now, who could blame them?

**

I just had this weird daydream of Justin Hartley's Oliver Queen confronting Allison (not Chloe) and yelling, "YOU HAVE FAILED THIS CITY!"

Re: Smallville

This is a weird situation. I never really hated Chloe (though there were times when she got close), and yet Allison is a disgusting, repulsive human being. Meanwhile, Felicity Smoak has turned into a character that appeals to me about as much as another Obama presidency, but I don't harbor any I'll feelings toward Emily Bett Rickards.

So the idea of replacing Chloe with Felicity makes me sad, but the idea of replacing Allison's image with Emily's doesn't.
Part of me thinks they should keep and celebrate the Chloe character, but change her appearance (maybe do that thing where they make white characters black for some reason). Another part of me thinks that no matter how they alter her appearance, Allison would always be able to look at Chloe and own a part of that character.

Turn her into a villain and kill her off?


My feelings about Kristen Bell are complicated. I love Veronica, but I'm actually not a fan of Bell's in general. smile