Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Informant wrote:

Twenty years later, we're all still trying to figure out why FOX does the things they do. The world may never know.

Maybe the show is difficult to produce and they need a break to catch up? I don't know. But I still think the show is going strong. I love the characters and the world they've built for the series. Great cast too.

Well, it's something that goes across the board.  Brooklyn Nine-Nine aired their 10th episode December 13th, then aired a one-hour episode on January 1, and is now off until April.  Last Man on Earth's last episode aired December 11 and they're off until March.  It even happened to the Simpsons:

Ep 28x10 - 12/11/16
Ep 28x11 - 1/8/17
2 part Ep 28x12/28x13 - 1/15/17
Ep 28x14 - 2/12/17

I know most people have DVR settings for new episodes so it doesn't really matter, but it's basically impossible to know when FOX shows are airing new episodes.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Probably explains some of their ratings issues.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

This week's episode was pretty great. I love the twisted humor of this show. I still can't believe that they beat Jerome until his face fell off and plopped into a puddle. Hilarious.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Definitely a good one, felt like one of the old cartoons.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Informant wrote:

Probably explains some of their ratings issues.

That's the interesting thing - or at least the sign of the times.  The ratings, while dropped from last year, aren't really dropping with all the craziness.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_G … .9317.29_2

The premiere had 3.9 million viewers (the apex of the season).  Episode 7 had 3.16 million, and that's the low.  Outside of a couple outliers, most of the 14 episodes were between 3.4 million and 3.6 million viewers.  Even the DVR numbers are remarkably consistent.  This show has a pretty strong following, it seems.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah, DVRs and online streaming really make a difference. Most of what I watch is through Roku channels.

But if you look at CBS, the ratings are way higher, and usually for far inferior shows. Why? Because CBS skews older. Old people watch TV live.

I really couldn't tell you what their programming schedule is like. I could check it out, but I'd probably fall asleep just reading the titles of their shows.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

CBS also has a stronger affiliate network.  Frankly they could air 30 minutes of Info on the toilet reading a comic book, and it would get better ratings than a Fox show winning Emmy's.  It's a flawed system.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I'd watch that.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I am done with Gotham. I am going to miss the bright spots: Erin Richards and Jessica Lucas but I just can't take it anymore. They lost me with the bringing back the dead and the cutting off of faces.
The violence is borderline OTT, plotlines just down right STUPID.
Gotham has become a lot of half assed writing, poor construction, inconsistencies and all around a ton of stupidity.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Gotham renewed for Season 4!

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

That is really good news. When it was on hiatus, I found myself really missing those new episodes.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Gotham is still impressing me. The show is a crazy blend of drama, action, comedy and comic book insanity. They've somehow managed to capture so many aspects of Gotham City from comic books, cartoons, movies, etc, and bring it all together in a way that feels perfect... While still creating it's own canon. They depict truly horrible violence, but in a way that makes me laugh, rather than barf. Similar to what Supernatural used to do each week, when they'd usually have some sort of bloody explosion.

If the show does get canceled soon, I hope that it is saved by either the CW, or the DC streaming service.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I don't think Gotham would be Gotham on the CW.  As we've talked about, the budget would be slashed to the point where it wouldn't feel right.  I know it'd probably be a small-time renewal just to get a finale....but it would still feel cheap.

I'm hoping it's just renewed, and they don't take any chances.  I think they're close enough to the end that Bruce could technically be Batman by the end of next season.  I just don't buy him as being physically imposing enough....even if he sorta looks the part in his face and in his acting.  But I think it'd be unfair to recast him at this point.

I've read on different sites that it's likely to come back and that it's unlikely to come back.  Maybe they'd renew it for 13 episodes or something.  I don't know why more bubble shows don't get smaller orders for a definite finale.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

It is a challenge, because David Mazouz is only 17, so even if he started training heavily and bulking up, it could be hard for him to look Batman-ish right now. Unless they go with more of a Terry McGinnis look. He is really good in the role though, so I'd rather not see him replaced.

Buy yeah, the budget would be an issue.

65 (edited by Grizzlor 2018-05-12 11:02:13)

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I've really enjoyed it.  Cameron Monaghan (Shameless) is fantastic.  The showrunner has said that once Fox gives the word on the show ending, he would write a 6 episode arc to close with David as Batman/proto-Batman.  Obviously they didn't have that chance this season, and it was too soon.  Camren (Selina) shaved her head last month (whatever), which immediately had a lot of fans worried about cancellation. 

Here's the scoop.  Warners fired Clayne Crawford from Lethal Weapon, and if they can't recast his Riggs part by I assume Monday, that show is toast, and Gotham is renewed.  Unfortunately I don't think Fox will take both.  Fox has already canned a ton of shows, partly to make room for Thursday NFL.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Recasting Lethal Weapon would just be dumb. Fox should have edited the finale to end a few seconds earlier, and it would have been a solid finale.

I think the fuss with Camren's hair has been a little over blown. In the comics Selina has had short hair, so it isn't a deal killer. Barbara's hair has changed quite a bit. Ivy's face keeps changing! I don't think a haircut is a big deal.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Grizzlor wrote:

The showrunner has said that once Fox gives the word on the show ending, he would write a 6 episode arc to close with David as Batman/proto-Batman.

Gotham has been on life support for a couple of seasons now.  It's crazy when these shows roll the dice when they know it could be their last season.  I know they weren't definitively told that it was the end, but the ratings haven't been great for a while.  It's been a bubble show all year.  It's crazy if they don't finish because they assumed they'd be renewed.

Same thing happened with the Last Man on Earth.  That show barely made it last season and ended this season on another cliffhanger.  I don't know why shows like that don't write a simple finale that would serve as a good series finale if things don't work out.  If they get renewed, it's always possible to create more story.  It's not possible to continue a show after a cliffhanger if your show is (predictably) cancelled.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

The thing about Gotham is that it has a very specific end point, like Smallville, and once you get there, you can't unring that bell.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I get that....but is that even true?

Smallville always said that it'd end the way that it ended....with Clark stepping into the light and being Superman.  I think Gotham wants to do something similar...with the last shot being Bruce putting on the cowl and going out to fight all these crazies.

But here's the thing.  Clark was essentially Superman for, at least, two seasons on Smallville.  He didn't have the suit on, but he was Superman - he even had the logo.  Bruce was essentially Batman for a portion of this season.  He's put on a mask and fought random crime.  He has a Batmobile.  The only thing missing is the ears and the logo.

So if Season Four ended with Bruce putting on the cowl with the Batman logo and hitting the streets, and then FOX decides to renew it, there's still stuff they can do.  Putting on the suit and hitting the streets doesn't make him Batman....there's still more story that they could tell about him.  Maybe they show Bruce's first times out.  Maybe they're a disaster, and he decides to travel the world and train.  Or they could frame the end of season four as a flashback and go into more detail about how he decides to go out.  Or even build up a new villain that drives him out.

Or they could just say "screw it" and air their version of Season 11 of Smallville.  Just keep the story going even after it's done - it's worked for almost 10 seasons of Supernatural.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Talk has been that it was an either/or situation with Lethal Weapon and Gotham, and Lethal Weapon just got renewed:

http://deadline.com/2018/05/seann-willi … 202388143/

So likely the end of Gotham.  No official word yet.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

And a surprise - Gotham renewed for a fifth and final season:

http://deadline.com/2018/05/gotham-rene … 202384012/

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Very cool!  The show's not perfect, but they seem to have a great vision.  I'm glad they're going to get the chance to see it through.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

I'm happy! The show has maintained a steady style and quality, unlike most shows of it's genre. I'll be sad to see it go, but I'm happy that they will get a proper goodbye.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Yeah I'm not 100% how much more traction they could get on the show after this, and I'm glad they're wrapping things up instead of pushing the envelope any more.  They've already leveraged so much of Batman's Rogues' Gallery, and they've kept Bruce right at the cusp of going full Batman for so long that I don't think it could've survived at this pace for 7+ seasons.

Although I'll give them credit.  I've always said, since season one, that the show was going to have to get desperate and do a time jump where they could hire a sexy mid-20s guy to play Bruce.  They stuck with their guy, and it's worked out.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

How do they make this show? AoS looks like it was filmed in someone's basement, in the 1990's, while Gotham looks like a movie. It has spectacular visuals of the city. I'm sure a lot of it is shot against a green screen, but you'd never know it. The visuals in the finale were excellent. The characters are great. The general vibe of the show is perfect.

I am impressed with this series. The stories are great, and exactly what they should be for this series. There's not a whole lot for me to discuss about the actual storylines, because they speak for themselves. But as I was watching the finale, I was struck by how beautifully this world has been brought to life on the show.

And at the end, when they showed us glimpses of the city falling into chaos and we saw glimpses of Man-Bat, and Morgaine le Fey with Mordred (I'm assuming that's who they were), it just felt natural. That says a lot.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

They did No Man's Land in a way that even Christopher Nolan wasn't able to.  It feels so comic booky, yet it still feels very grounded.  I still don't buy this version of Bruce as Batman because he's just not very big, but they've done a great job with just about everything else.

The only thing about this show that bothers me is Barbara....she's so irritating and over-acts in every scene (moreso than everyone else).  I think her type of character fits, but the actress bothers me.  Her "no boys allowed" storyline might be fun, though.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Toxic femininity!

Yeah, Barbara is a bit much. I think it doesn't bother me as much as it could, just because she's usually surrounded by characters that contrast that personality a lot. On her own, she is very annoying, but as part of the overall picture, she doesn't bother me too much.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

So Lethal Weapon was recast with Stiffler, and Gotham WILL return!

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

The Lethal Weapon drama had been fascinating to watch. The studio totally made the wrong call on that one.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

http://tvline.com/2018/06/04/gotham-fin … bicondova/

Might be a 10 episode season.  Which is fine with me....since this should, essentially, just be the finale.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

That makes sense.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Ehhh, that sucks, only 10.

Re: Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers)

Considering how close it came to dying, I think 10 will be great.  I'm actually a little surprised that they didn't simply renew it for the 6-episode arc that you mentioned they could write to wrap things up.