Re: Supernatural

Technically the show was already "renewed" for 14 like a year ago, as the boys signed two year deals.  Scoobynatural was incredible.  I laughed nonstop.

Re: Supernatural

I still hate that Gabriel is back.

Re: Supernatural

Agreed. Is it the alternate Gabriel, or did he just not die? We first saw him weeks ago, but they just let it sit there. If they wanted to bring him back, they should have done a better job of it. If they want me to buy his being back after all this time, they needed to set it up beforehand, and explain it when it happened. Right now, every time I see him, my reaction is "nuh-uh"

I'm also experiencing some serious Mandela effect symptoms right now. I could have sworn that the symbol used to hold demons was the Seal of Solomon. Now I'm looking it up and people are calling it the Key of Solomon.

Re: Supernatural

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO.

NO!

Re: Supernatural

Informant wrote:

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

NO.

NO!

I guess I'm watching this tonight.

Re: Supernatural

Hahah that's not what I was expecting.

Poor Informant.

Re: Supernatural

This season has been a little problematic for me. I like a lot of it, but they keep bringing back dead people (Ketch, Rowena, Gabriel) which I find frustrating. I also find the parallel dimensions to be out of place on the show. It's fun for an episode here and there, but over many episodes, it feels wrong. Plus the very alien world's, I'm not a huge fan of.

Then they bring back dead characters in the other dimension and I'm not sure which gripe gets dibbs on that one.

I wasn't a huge fan of this episode anyway. I did like that Col. Sanders died, but not much else. It felt like they were treading water.

Re: Supernatural

Gabriel's fake out death both makes some sense (in a Loki sort of way), but I still don't like it.  I feel like Lucifer would've noticed.

And it's still one of my favorite scenes, and for it to be retconned just really upsets me.  *Especially* since I liked the character.  His death might've been the most effective in the entire series.  Maybe more than John's.

Re: Supernatural

Yeah, and you'd think that God would have noticed too.

I know that each showrunner has had their own style and arc for the show, and like comic books, undoing deaths sometimes open up stories... But I'm not sure how many of these were necessary this year. Did we need Ketch and Rowena back? Did we even need Lucifer back on the show to this degree? And unless Gabriel is super, super important, bringing him back could be a huge mistake.

I feel like they're trying to go backwards too much, rather than move on to new arcs.

Re: Supernatural

Well, and these roles could've been filled by new characters that could flesh out the world.  Or returning characters that could be secretly working for Asmodeus - like Garth.  Or it could be another young hunter that Sam and Dean try to help out (maybe to fill in for the loss of Jack) that ends up betraying them.

For the witches....bring in a new character to be a powerful witch.

For the archangel, if you want to resurrect someone, use Raphael.  Or, you know, since you already have a Michael on the show...use a rehabilitated Michael.  They're already going with "tortured Gabriel" - they could've just as easily used Michael.

Re: Supernatural

Agreed all around.

The thing with having a powerful witch on the show is, they become a too-easy solution to too many problems. On top of that, Supernatural tends to work best when they keep the CG fireworks to a minimum. As the years go on and these things become more affordable, the show has started relying on more an more computer generated effects, and monsters. However, Kripke always said that the Wendigo taught him that things worked better when they were in shadows, and I think that's true, even if we're not talking about rubber masks anymore.


Speaking of how the show looks... I forget if I have mentioned it before (probably have), but I've noticed that some episodes seem to look and sound cheaper than other episodes. While some episodes look great, others look like an old kid's show from the 90's, in some way. I don't know if it's lighting, color correction, or the camera they're using. But I've noticed that the audio sounds less refined as well.

I'm wondering if it's just me, or if other people have noticed this

Re: Supernatural

Two things:

1. Wayward Sisters apparently didn't get picked up.  I enjoyed the little backdoor pilot they did.  Sad it won't get a chance to go.

2. Come on, Sammy.  I know what he was trying to do, but it was just stupid to betray the Devil like that.  You know he's going to find his way back, and you know Jack is going to be mad when he finds out what you did.  Honestly, I felt it was more of a Dean move than a Sam move.  Maybe that was the point....but it was really dumb (of the character, not necessarily the writers).

Re: Supernatural

Supernatural is moving......to the same place.  The CW is actually keeping them at the same day and time next season!

Re: Supernatural

That's new! smile

I'm curious to see where they go with the show. I'm not totally into having the other-worlders settling in the main universe. However, the angels from that world have been handled better than the prime angels lately. With no king of Hell, and Heaven being closed off, the show might finally lose some of their crutches.

Re: Supernatural

Supernatural finale:

I'm torn on this. There are elements that I was really drawn into, and elements that I thought were kinda cringy. I think that can be said for this entire season's arc.

The alternate world arc wasn't great overall. I like that the angels over there weren't the stupid corporate angels that we've seen over the last however many years. They were dangerous, and didn't spend scene after scene just talking about how powerful they were. However, as a whole, I'm just not sure about the other universe. Using it was a way to undo deaths without undoing deaths felt gimmicky to me. In a whole entire other world, they just happen to bump into a bunch of their old dead friends (and not even the ones that I'd be willing to have back even if the method of doing it was kinda weak). And Bobby/Mary? No.

It wasn't horrible. It just didn't feel like Supernatural to me.

However, we got Jack this year. I didn't like how he came about last year, and I didn't like bringing Lucifer back at all, but I did end up liking Jack a lot, which surprised me. Not only did I like him as a character, and how he works with all of the other characters, but I liked this underlying question of whether or not he was born to be bad. There was always this threat that he was too powerful and could do horrible things, even if he didn't meant to. Watching that tension fill the room in each scene, even if it wasn't being directly addressed, was fascinating.

There was real tension with Lucifer and Michael, even if I didn't love them being there at all. Lucifer trying to lure Jack to the dark side, using his same old Lucifer methods, was interesting. And when he finally turned on Jack, it wasn't really surprising, but it was emotionally charged, just because we care for Jack at this point. I do like that they took Jack's power away. Even having Castiel around is too much of a crutch for the series, so if Jack is to stay, he needs to be a person, not a super powerful being.

And then Dean saying yes to Michael after all these years... it was cool. However, it led to some of the more horrifically corny visuals to ever grace this show. The flying battle was bad. It was like watching a B-Movie from the 80's, to the point where I kinda think that they might have been riffing that style on purpose (especially with the freeze-frame at the end of the episode).

I'm sure I'm supposed to be wondering how they will get Dean out of this, but I was just left screaming at my TV "Boot him! Why are you whining about having a deal instead of saying no?!"

But whatevs.

So yeah... I don't know. The episode wasn't horrible. The whole arc wasn't horrible. It just didn't feel like it was taking place on the right show for me.


And lest I forget, I am going to ding Supernatural for doing something that I've bashed the Arrowverse for. No special treatment.

TRUMP IS NOT PRESIDENT IN THE SUPERNATURAL UNIVERSE!!!!!!!!! Watch your own damn show, people!!! Jack is genetically the damn president's son! Yes, it was a stupid idea, but you did it anyway. Now you don't get to make Trump jokes!

Re: Supernatural

I enjoyed the season, but the finale was a mess.  Between who they killed off, and what not, ehhhh, I don't get it.  Whatever.

Re: Supernatural

Yeah, I don't get a lot of the decisions that went into the finale. I could do without bringing over the doubles of people that we know. It doesn't feel like Bobby, so I don't see the purpose in bringing him back to the show as anything more than a quick nod. Having him on the show for keeps will feel weird, because it's Jim Beaver, but not really Bobby. And the longer they keep him around, the more questions will pop up about how the whole alternate history thing works on the show.

Re: Supernatural

Informant wrote:

Dean saying yes to Michael after all these years... it was cool. However, it led to some of the more horrifically corny visuals to ever grace this show. The flying battle was bad. It was like watching a B-Movie from the 80's, to the point where I kinda think that they might have been riffing that style on purpose (especially with the freeze-frame at the end of the episode).

I've always found Informant to be one of the most visually illiterate people in fandom -- so when even he notices problems in the cinematography, choreography, blocking, composition and editing on SUPERNATURAL and AGENTS OF SHIELD, you know something's gone really, really, really wrong with the production.

Re: Supernatural

Should I take offense at that comment?

I just think that Chuck managed to remain enjoyable despite their limitations!

Re: Supernatural

SUPERNATURAL and AGENTS OF SHIELD should definitely take heed of how dire their situations have become.

Re: Supernatural

Two quick notes:

1. I don't really understand what they're doing with Michael.  Is he evil or is he not?  Because after trying to defeat Michael the whole season, the idea of them just letting him be the hero at the end was really strange.  I also don't really understand why Michael is evil in the Apocalypse World or what he was doing.  Is there no Chuck in the other world?  Did Michael kill Chuck?  Because Chuck was around during the Michael/Lucifer fight in the main world, and he was actively working to help the brothers. 

We had that alternate apocalypse world in season 5, but that was based on Lucifer winning.

2. There's a small chance that there was an election in 2017 that Trump could've won.  I don't know if they've ever specifically said that elections happened at the same time in their world and our world, but on shows like the West Wing, they've made little explanations for why the elections are off.  So maybe there was an election between Jack's birth and the finale. 

But it was a lazy joke that should've been caught.

Re: Supernatural

Yeah, the alternate history doesn't really hold up as a version of the story that we know. Without Sam and Dean, how did Lucifer go free? How did Michael and Lucifer face off? Why wouldn't Charlie immediately get killed? The list goes on.

Probably best to not think about it. smile

Re: Supernatural

I mean I'd love to dismiss it, but now it's such a big part of the show.  What's crazy is that it didn't even have to go that route.  If they wanted an alternate universe where the apocalypse happened in season 5....I think it's a great idea.  It really ties into the mythology of the show, and I sorta like how they can bring back gritty versions of everyone.

But it seems like a simple move to make.  Lucifer won.  He wipes out humanity because he's evil.  Or if you want to do the Michael thing....no one won.  The world is destroyed because Lucifer and Michael have been fighting for 8 years and don't care about collateral damage.  Michael can be a little twisted because of how long he's been at war, but he shouldn't just be executing people for no reason.

Instead of bringing back Gabriel, bring back Cage Michael.  He'd be just as twisted, and they could rehabilitate him.  And when you have Dean say yes to Cage Michael, you'd get a cool Sam/Dean dynamic because Cage Michael has been trapped with Sam in the Cage before.  They have actual history together.

They just didn't think Apocalypse World through at all.