Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well, the greatest and worst things about these crossovers is that they can help each other.  Realistically, these guys can help each other out almost any time.  Even during massive crises on their individual shows, they still have scenes at bars or coffee shops or apartment lofts.  They have down time.  And if it meant saving all of Earth 1, then all hands could theoretically be on deck unless Kara is in a coma or Oliver is on trial. 

But even then, it'd feel like a more cohesive universe if Team Flash went through all their options.  "Did you call Kara?" "Yeah, she's dealing with something they're calling "World Killers" so her hands are full.  "What about the Waverider?" "Can't reach them."  Then, at least, we'd know they considered it. 

We can assume that they did, but it was offscreen.  What sucks is that lines like the above don't require anything extra (no guest stars or coordination) - the writers just need to remember.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

On Arrow...

Diaz is, in theory, a great villain.  He has control of the city, essentially turning Team Arrow into fugitives without having to frame them for anything.  The problem is....I don't buy it.

Putting pressure on a few guys at the top...that makes sense.  But Diaz seems to have put pressure on everyone in the city, and I don't get that.  And the show isn't being particularly clear on what, exactly, is going on.

There's a couple of things that they seem to be saying.  The whole flash drive thing was because it had everyone on Diaz's payroll - but is he paying everyone off?  And wouldn't that be insanely expensive?  Is Diaz rich enough, even with the Quadrant's resources, to pay off every person in the government?  And if he is, is that even the best way to use those resources?  Seems like it's way too much to be spending, even for the level of control he has?

Or is he paying off certain people and leveraging everyone else?  Or is he counting on paying off / leveraging top people, and simply hoping that everyone else falls in line?  Because I don't buy that.  Is the entire SCPD borderline evil?  Because some of the stuff that Diaz is ordering street-level cops to do is beyond "following orders" - even if you compare it to stuff in Gotham, they're essentially saying that Jim Gordon would work as muscle....since there are dozens of cops who seem fine with "I want Oliver Queen dead" with no questions asked.

What I think, maybe, should've happened instead of the Green Arrow trial getting Oliver impeached....is some sort of huge disaster where a ton of SCPD officers were either killed or seriously injured - where the city has to impeach Oliver because of the fallout and the city has to "hire" a private security firm to act as the police - and those would all be Diaz men.  Because this season technically has to end with literally every government officer in prison because they're all openly committing crimes for a crime lord.

I'm enjoying the season, and I think Diaz is a great villain for Oliver to face.  But every time I think about it, the crazier it seems.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I agree with most of what you said. Diaz should have been seen less this year, while his influence slowly built and became more obvious.

I've just gotten so tired of yelling "kill him" at my tv, while numerous characters just shrug and walk away. The end result is, he looks like a weak villain who isn't stopped because the heroes are weaker.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Exactly.  Even if he was on the show but in the shadows *at SCPD*, then they could at least follow the "following orders" excuse for most of the policemen.  Right now, the policemen are openly following orders from some random plainclothesed guy.  How are any of these officers going to explain any of their actions?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Looks like the Berlanti Titans series is getting something to crossover with - Doom Patrol:

http://ew.com/tv/2018/05/14/doom-patrol-dc/

The classic Doom Patrol Line-up with the addition of Crazy Jane (who is basically the X-men character Legion - each of her multiple personalities has a different power).  Of course, I guess it balances out in the end given that X-men was kind of a rip off of Doom Patrol (with the Patrol debuting in June 1963 and X-men in September 1963).

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Next season:

Supergirl is moving to Sundays at 8pm Eastern
Legends and Arrow will be paired on Mondays (8pm Eastern and 9pm Eastern, respectively)
Flash and Black Lightning are paired on Tuesdays (8pm Eastern and 9pm Eastern, respectively)

Has anyone seen Black Lightning?  How does it tie in with the Arrowverse?  Does it at all?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I watched the first episode of Black Lightning, but it didn't impress me. I may revisit it over the summer, but I haven't decided yet. From what I saw, they left wiggle room that could allow the show to fit into tye Arrowverse if they wanted, but I didn't see any solid link.


Also in the news, this year's crossover will feature Gotham City and Batwoman. And everyone is already expecting her to hook up with Sara, because Sara is just a joke of a character at this point.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Has anyone seen Black Lightning?  How does it tie in with the Arrowverse?  Does it at all?

From the little I’ve seen, it’s kind of vague.  They are name dropping heroes like Vixen, but the way they talk it could be a reference to a person or a reference to a story they read (like a comic book).  Not sure how likely a true crossover is, though.  Black Lightning films in Atlanta with everyone else in Vancouver.  Same problem with Titans and Doom Patrol as they film in Toronto.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Yeah I saw that.  They're also selling it as "introducing Gotham to the Arrowverse."

So this season on Arrow, they name-dropped Bruce Wayne.  He was indirectly referenced by Rip Hunter and a few other places.  If the Arrowverse was able to  fully introduce Batman, what would be the way to do it at this point?  A multi-episode storyline on one of the shows (sorta like how they introduced Atom or Elongated Man)?  A multi-episode storyline on one show?  Or only during a massive crossover?

He's such a big character that I'm sorta worried about him overshadowing the whole universe if not done right.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Thinking in terms of Supergirl, Batman could make an appearance without stealing the show. I think the easiest way to do this would be to use Batman’s anti-social aspect - it’s not that the CW is trying to keep Batman in the background but instead that Batman *wants* to be in the background.

I think the bigger thing here is the potential access to more prominent Batman villains. With Supergirl fighting Metallo, could Arrow face off with Clayface?  Using the Supergirl model, Joker would likely be off the table like Lex seemingly is; but what about Penguin?  Bane?  Scarecrow?  There’s a lot of options.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

With Gotham going off the air, it could make sense to use Batman villains.

I like that Batman exists but doesn't appear because he doesn't want to.  Arrow makes the most sense to add (I still wish they'd been able to use Nightwing), but I'm sure all the shows would want to use him.  Using him in a crossover and then a run on Arrow makes the most sense to me.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

It’s also worth noting that one of Batwoman’s most notable storylines in modern comics concerns the Crime Bible:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_Bible

What’s notable there is its connection to Bruno Mannheim, Apokolips and Darkseid.

The Question also has a history with Batwoman; well, the Renee Montoya Question.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I was hoping that Batman would be an Earth-2 character. It just feels like a good fit to me. But I guess that probably won't happen. Since they are using Batwoman, I assume they will come from Kara's world, because of its toxic femininity. (That was a joke. Relax)

I doubt Batman will happen, and I'm okay with that. They cast Superman way too young, and they'd probably do the same with Batman. Arrow already swims in Batman-inspired waters pretty often, so it'd probably be weird to have Batman appear anyway. Same with Oracle.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Oh, BTW, Supergirl (even for just a few minutes), completely stops Thinker's plan.  It might even lead to an interesting plot, where Earth 1 is freaked out by the mysterious super-powered being that destroyed all Earth's satellites smile

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Arrow finale:

What they hell were they thinking? This episode was like a how-to guide for horrible plotting. I don't even know where to begin.


I guess I'll start with Diaz. They spent the entire season spinning their wheels with this guy. They had a hundred different chances to kill him off and be done with him, but they didn't, just because it wasn't the end of the season yet. He's not particularly intimidating or capable. He's not a mastermind. He's just a guy who people refuse to put down. So we finally get to the finale, and what happens? Oliver refuses to put him down! He literally stands there like an idiot, doing nothing while Diaz goes on about how he's not going to be stopped. The one time Oliver does shoot him, he doesn't even deliver a fatal wound! And then Black Siren throws him into a frigging river?! I sat through this entire mess of a season to get to THIS?!?!

In the shuffle, Quentin is wounded. We all knew that it was coming, because it was announced weeks ago that Paul Blackthorne was leaving. I read that it was the producers who decided to off the character, so you'd expect them to have a hell of a reason for it. You'd expect it to be super powerful. Except, it wasn't. They managed to get this mortally wounded man to the hospital, only to have him sit around for a few hours, waiting to have the super urgent emergency surgery that will save his life. Except it doesn't, because SHOCKER, you should probably have emergency surgery right away. The death was useless, and resulted in another hospital bed goodbye, like Laurel's, which gives the writers a chance to write a bunch of speeches, but ultimately drags out the moment that we all know is coming, to the point where the actual death has no emotional punch. Quentin should have died back in the villain lair, resulting in Black Siren going all out to help the good guys.

Sara was brought back. Why? I have no idea. She didn't even share a scene with Quentin! And since Legends will be back in the fall instead of midseason, it wasn't even a setup for Sara to take over for Oliver (which would have been awesome. I still say that she belongs on Arrow, not Legends). He coming back meant nothing. She should have been the one facing off against evil Laurel all year, not Dinah. And when they do finally meet... nothing.

How the f**k does Felicity track down a pacemaker? This is as bad as the time she controlled construction equipment remotely, when none of it would have any sort of remote control functions.

Oliver going and making peace with all of the newbies was stupid. The show has refused to acknowledge the massive violations of trust and common decency by these people, and they act like it was all Oliver going crazy. Sadly, none of them died or left town, so we'll probably be stuck with them for another season.

Oliver went to prison. Is he going to see the "Barry Allen was here" thing on his cell wall? Because Barry Allen was in that plotline half a season ago. Hell, the prison even looks the same. And while I think that the storyline is probably better suited to Arrow (assuming that they can really dig into it), it's just stupid that so much of this season has been spent sharing plotlines between the two shows. It's absurd.


Not one element of the finale was fulfilling in any way. Not one thing felt earned. Not one thing felt natural. This episode should have been episode 10 of the season, not the finale. I can't believe we're still stuck with Diaz.


I'm glad that we will have a new showrunner next year, however, I'm not sure of the choice of new showrunners. Looking at her history, there's a lot of rom-com type stuff. That is not the energy that Arrow needs. I hope that the new showrunner can bring a tough, hard-hitting, toxically masculine vibe to this prison arc.


Crappy finale for a weak season.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

On the bright side, they specifically said that he'd be in Supermax.  So if they want/are able to swing that storyline that, let's be honest, will never be made as a movie.....they can.  Could be pretty cool.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

It could be cool. This would be a great time to really change things up and go in a completely different direction with the series.

But Oliver will be back to his normal life long before the crossover, and no massive cast changes have been announced, so... We'll see. My hopes aren't high.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Well I don't think it would necessarily need to involve major cast changes.  It could be Roy coming back to fill in for Oliver, with the rest of the team filling in as support for half the season.  And for the other half in Oliver's escape from Supermax, they could probably get away with the other villains being guest stars.

It could even work with the main plot being done in real time and the Oliver escape done in flashback (so that could take place in a matter of hours but the story takes place over the course of a couple months).

The crossover is going to be in December of next year - so it's reasonable that he'd be free by midseason.  If not, it'd also be reasonable for the government to let him out under certain circumstances (a Suicide Squad type of deal).

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Okay, they just had no idea how to resolve this Thinker story, did they? The finale was a mish-mash of ideas that never amounted to a plot. Then we had the team hug Marlize and send her on her way, and it wasn't even a clever prank where she goes outside and is immediately surrounded by police and taken to jail. They actually let her go!

The scenes with Wally were better than what we got of Sara on Arrow, but I felt like his conversation with Joe was the continuation of a conversation that I never saw the first half of. Did Joe see him off when he joined the Legends?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Flash finale was okay but not great.  I wish that Harrison Wells could get away from the “being stupid” thing, but looks like we’re stuck with it.

The only interesting thing was Nora’s comment when she first walked in the house - “This house is bitchin’!”  Back at the start of the season, Cisco thought he had cracked the code of the symbols Barry was writing after he got back from the speed force, but Cisco gave up on it when the translation was “this house is bitchin”.  So we’ve got a connection now; Barry was trying to tell them about the future.

Harry was writing more of those symbols on the board during the blackout.  What was Harry trying to tell them?

I’m also curious - did Ralph keep all those extra powers?  They were in his body after all.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Yeah, the part with the speed force writing and Nora was interesting. I hope they have a solid plan for that.

As for Ralph... I'm just upset that he came back. He is super annoying. I imagine that he only has his powers now, if they keep him around at all. If he is on the show with all of those powers, he will outshine Barry, and that can't happen.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I finally watched the Flash finale last night.

I really don't know what to think.  I think the Thinker was a really good idea for a villain because he can frustrate Team Flash in ways that no other villain had up until that point.  Barry thinks of himself as a genius, and so do Cisco and Harry and Caitlin and....everyone but Joe maybe?  And to have a villain come in and kick their butts at something they all think they do well was interesting.

What also was promising is a villain who has goals that are understandable.  Previous villains want "more speed" for....reasons.  I never really understood the goal, and the main fights ended up being races that didn't seem to make any sense.

Instead, I think they made two fatal mistakes.  One, they didn't think that a guy in a wheelchair vs. a team of superheroes was compelling enough so the second half of the season turned DeVoe into Sylar.  They made him way too powerful physically when his mind should have been his primary weapon.

Second....his plan was too convoluted and didn't make enough sense.  This was their best chance to have a villain with a clear motive, and they botched it.  As long as Arrow and Flash were copying each other, they could've gone for the "Hero has to go solo" idea and had Thinker mind control each member of Team Flash one by one.  So, by the finale, it's Team Flash vs. Flash.

I actually liked Ralph, and I'm glad he wasn't dead.  I actually hadn't considered that Ralph's brain would still be alive in there, and that he still had his original body.  I do feel that it's a bit of a copout because I think Ralph's death was supposed to have real weight, and Team Flash still hasn't really had a true loss at any point now.

And the way Thinker lost....I can't believe that DeVoe had a perfect plan with perfect contingencies, even if they'd brought in Kara (which they mentioned but still would've been nice to see them try....especially since Supergirl went on hiatus and it might've been possible for a small cameo)....and we're led to believe that his plan went perfectly until Marlize just...unplugged him?  Either he sees every option and has a plan for it, or he doesn't.  You can't give him perfect precognition and then just take it away.  If Marlize was a blind spot, that's fine.  But I don't think they really built that in well enough if that's even what happened.

I just think it was sloppy.  Which sucks because I think, overall, the season was better than it's been the last couple years.

873 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2018-05-25 08:02:38)

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

TemporalFlux wrote:

The strangely excited girl who was trying to give Barry a drink before the wedding.  Is that going to be Barry’s time traveling grand daughter Jenni Ognats (otherwise known as XS of the 30th century Legion of Super-heroes)?

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/theflash/images/6/67/XS.png/revision/latest?cb=20091109031025

Once again, TF was way ahead of the curve.  Not exactly right but close enough.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:
TemporalFlux wrote:

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/theflash/images/6/67/XS.png/revision/latest?cb=20091109031025

Once again, TF was way ahead of the curve.  Not exactly right but close enough.

They threw a curve on this one because Nora is a brand new character that’s never appeared anywhere.  In the comics, Barry and Iris had a boy and a girl set of twins, Don and Dawn.  Once their speed powers developed, they were called the Tornado Twins.  Dawn would end up having a daughter (Jenni pictured above), and Don would have a son (Bart Allen).

The interesting thing about Don is his wife - he married Meloni Thawne.  Bart is a descendant of both Flash and Reverse Flash.  The CW show has made it complicated to play with that idea, but they may still find a way.

So why different?  The show has done this before by starting out different (such as the red chest insignia), but finding their way back to the original comics ideas in the end.  Maybe Nora is designed as a throw away.  We’ll get to know her and like her, and then she’ll have to be erased from history to make things right.  Later we meet Barry’s grand daughter Jenni who looks just like Nora (the genes are still there), and it’s a somewhat happy ending because a piece of Nora still lives on.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Informant wrote:

The Council of Wells is like... You know when an unfunny person tells an unfunny joke, but they insist that it's funny, so they keep pushing it harder and harder, to the point where it wouldn't be funny even if it had been funny to start with? Like a lame "Dad joke" that will not die.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I don't think the writers are responsible for the Council of Wells stuff.  I'm guessing it's Tom Cavanagh driven.  Either he's asking for opportunities to be funny/goofy, or he's being funny/goofy enough that the sleep-deprived writing staff thinks everyone would enjoy it as much as they do. I don't think it's funny either.

TemporalFlux wrote:

I wish that Harrison Wells could get away from the “being stupid” thing, but looks like we’re stuck with it.

From Season 3 onward, THE FLASH has been treating Dr. Wells like he’s Tom Cavanagh doing stand-up and sketch comedy. Dr. Wells is, unfortunately, the victim of a fate suffered by many characters: he has been modified to resemble the actor even if such a direction doesn't serve the character.

The original Dr. Wells was effective as Barry's mentor. He had wisdom tempered with humility due to the particle accelerator disaster. He was often arrogant and modest in the same scene. He was Professor Arturo. He was Temporal Flux. He was Dad. That's why it was heartbreaking to learn he was Eobard Thawne with a face stolen from the man he'd murdered. Naturally, the producers wanted to keep Cavanagh's gift for playing Barry's mentor in Season 2 and they introduced Harry, intending for this double from Earth 2 to be the heroic, gentle Wells whom Cavanagh played for one episode before Thawne killed the character.

But Cavanagh resisted this, asking that Harry be arrogant, caustic and embittered by a secret except, unlike Thawne, Harry was trying to save his daughter Jessie. Season 2 ended with Harry saving Jessie and returning with her to Earth 2. And as much as fans enjoyed Cavanagh and the Harry character, there was no sensible way for the Season 2 finale/Season 3 premiere to explain why Harry would leave his company, daughter, home, career and dimension.

Cavanagh was still on contract, so Season 3 introduced HR, the goofy, silly, scientifically illiterate alternate of Harry. If you've heard MIKE AND TOM EAT SNACKS, a podcast where Tom Cavanagh and his friend Michael Ian Black review snack foods and go off on absurd conversational tangents of nonsense, you'll realize: HR was Tom Cavanagh's real-life personality. Season 3 didn't even bother to pretend that HR was just an excuse to keep Cavanagh present and simply had Tom Cavanagh playing himself.

The show attempted to make HR the human resources manager at STAR Labs. The comic relief. The stand-up sketch artist. And while Cavanagh was appealing and hilariously annoying, HR lacked any purpose because he wasn't a scientist, fighter, investigator or anything that a superhero team actually needed. The show ended up using him as a decoy to be killed off.

Season 4 brought Harry back, having alienated his daughter off-camera during the summer hiatus. They could have used this excuse in Season 3 but having it happen between Seasons 3 - 4 avoided tarnishing the happy ending of Season 2. Instead, Harry had been given a year with his daughter, driven her crazy, been kicked out of his own STAR Labs -- and now it made sense that he would gravitate to the only other people who would tolerate him.

But the Season 4 Harry was not the effective mentor, teacher, father figure with a dark side that he'd been in Season 2. He no longer guided the team or offered his experience or provided his brilliant and ruthless efficiency. Instead, Harry now rambled awkwardly (like HR), he blustered without being able to back it up (like HR) and was repeatedly upstaged and undermined as a self-sabotaging incompetent (like HR). Jessie Quick's rejection shook Harry, shattered his self-esteem, left him insecure and pathetic. He had been arrogant and certain of his genius, but his own daughter not wanting him in her life made him feel unwanted by everyone. He was off-balance. It made sense.

What didn't make sense, however, was Season 4 taking this tragic drama of a broken man finding humility -- and playing it all for laughs. Harry spent Season 4 teamed with Cisco and having his ego further punctured in lighthearted ways. The conflicts between Harry and the team weren't serious. Harry acknowledged that he was a shadow of his former self, but such scenes emphasized comedy rather than pain. Harry was so deflated that he attempted to augment his mental prowess but instead gave himself brain damage. This was the bottom of his downward spiral where Harry had lost his company, daughter, home and now he would lose the only thing he had left, his intelligence -- except this too, was presented as comedy with Harry stumbling about and banging into furniture and meandering through conversations.

Why? Season 4 already had Ralph Dibney for comic relief, so why was Harry's arrogant ineffectualness presented with such lightweight, conflict-free goofiness? Why not have him play the role he was created to play: to be Barry's ruthless, trustworthy, caustic, encouraging mentor and teacher? 

I'm actually not sure. I wondered if Cavanagh asked for Harry to be written as Tom Cavanagh so that Cavanagh could play himself, but Cavanagh actively pushed for Harry to be a darker character in Season 2. Did playing himself/HR in Season 3 go to his head or did it go to the writers' heads? Cavanagh, in interviews, remarked that the writers had felt the team lacked a comedy character in Season 3 and decided to have him fulfill that function. They clearly kept the same mindset for Season 4.

Since Season 3, the writers have not tried to write Dr. Harrison Wells, physicist engineer genius whose intelligence is exceeded by his ego and whose vast overestimation of his competence leads to bad situations but also a drive and ambition that inspires his students and teammates. The writers are simply writing Tom Cavanagh's stand up comedy for him. This is particularly glaring with the Council of Wells. In theory, this would have been an intriguing look into different paths Harrison Wells might have taken. In practice, it was a chance for Cavanagh to affect silly accents which he loved doing on MIKE AND TOM EAT SNACKS.

This approach of using Cavanagh for comedy was also present with the Earth 1 Eobard Thawne we saw in CRISIS ON EARTH X. He wore Tom Cavanagh's face for no adequately explained reason. Cavanagh played Thawne with a cartoonish glee, a ridiculously exaggerated enunciation and over-the-top silliness. This clearly wasn't the master manipulator Cavanagh played in Season 1 or the arrogantly superior villain Matt Letscher presented in LEGENDS. This was a caricature.

There's also a problem that's somewhat beyond Cavanagh. Barry already has a father figure in Joe. Dr. Wells was essential for scientific support and urging Barry into his superhero career for Seasons 1 - 2, but Joe came to accept Barry as the Flash. Caitlin and Cisco grew sufficiently to take over as Barry's doctor and engineer. Iris stepped up as team leader. Wells became redundant, the writers tried to keep the actor around by putting him with Cisco and having Cavanagh be funny, but it only suggests that Cavanagh mastered Wells so thoroughly and taught Barry so fully that there's nothing left to do with Dr. Wells and he's been reduced to being his actor.

Maybe it's time Cavanagh left the show... or joined LEGENDS OF TOMORROW with Wally?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I think that's a great analysis.

To me, Tom Cavanaugh has a lot of similarities with Michael Rosenbaum.  They're actors who are incredibly goofy in real life, but I was introduced to them portraying characters with this very serious dark side.  It's clear that both Cavanaugh and Rosenbaum want to be goofy characters, perfectly suited for the types of podcasts that both man seem to really enjoy doing.

But to me, Rosenbaum played a cold, chilling Lex Luthor so well on Smallville.  Even if his decent into comically-evil Lex was awkwardly paced, I bought it because Rosenbaum sold it.  And I enjoy serious Wells more than I enjoy comic Wells.  The Council of Wells does nothing for me, and I didn't particularly care about HR.  I didn't like Wells when he was tripping over things, and people were rolling their eyes at him.  I like Harry as a person, and I don't like deviations from that character.

At the same time, I do agree that he doesn't really have a place anymore.  The roles that people have grown into have made him obsolete.  It's one reason why I liked the idea that DeVoe might be setting up a series of events where Harry becomes the true Thinker.  It would've been a tragic ending, but it would've given Cavanaugh something significant to do.

I don't know where you go from here.  Cavanaugh is a fun actor, and I'd love to get more of him.  But if they want to use him as comic relief, they should just let him go.  He could work on Legends.  I don't know if he'd fit any better on Team Arrow than he would Team Flash (who have Felicity and Curtis in his role), but I'd actually really love to see him bounce off Oliver for a season.  I can also see him staying on Flash if they wanted to shake things up on Team Flash (which, honestly, they haven't done much of on that show).

I honestly don't know what I'd do with him.  Maybe it is time for him to move on.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Since the shows did such similar things this season, it probably would have been cool if they'd actually played with that angle. They could have contrasted how Barry handles that situation vs. Oliver, and how their teams function without them. They could have even made a vague reference to the Thinker being Diaz's key to gaining as much power as he did (because Diaz honestly didn't seem that capable of doing it on his own). They wouldn't necessarily need to make the seasons of both shows into one big crossover, but having them ignore the fact that they were basically ripping each other off made it seem like the whole Arrowverse behind the scenes machinery doesn't work well with each other. There should be someone who at least knows the basic ideas for the big stories and could say "They're already doing that over on The Flash", so Arrow doesn't just copy and paste story elements.


With Tom Cavanaugh... I don't know his podcast. I can't listen or watch Michael Ian Black because he is such a troll. Not even just an internet troll. He's like a troll of all existence. So I don't know how Tom is on that podcast. What I think happened is that The Flash got a lot of criticism last season because people thought that it was too dark (something that I don't agree with), so the writers tried to swing the other way and introduce goofy, comedic elements to this past season.  The result was a mess all around.

I actually liked HR. I know that he was more like Tom, but I also think that he added a different type of intelligence to the team, which was interesting to see. The way they did that showed that the concept of various versions of that character could be interesting, because they're all different but have the same ability to be great. All of the versions of the character from different worlds that they showed this season were just Tom doing his take on movie/tv characters. It gave us no information about the characters and it wasn't interesting at all. I think the writers wanted to be funny, do people would stop complaining about the show being dark, and they thought that the way to do that would be to use the comedic talent that they see on set. But they did this with no consideration for the universe within the show, the characters, or the fact that they're not comedy writers and couldn't pull off this sort of wacky nonsense.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Wally is once again homeless.

http://tvline.com/2018/06/05/legends-of … s-regular/

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

The actor opens up on his decision:

http://tvline.com/2018/06/06/legends-of … ally-west/

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I was never a huge fan of this Wally, obviously. I wish the actor well, but I think it'd be cool if they introduced the other Wally West now.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

At this point, I'd actually like to see some form of Bart.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

*Sigh*

Supergirl

Look, it's fine when shows decide to wade into politics.  I guess.  But "a special episode of" episodes need to be careful about how they do things.  And, I think, it needs to serve some sort of purpose.  The episode of Supergirl from Monday was just so awkward in its message, and I actually sorta agree with their message.

The problem is that the message that Supergirl writers are sending doesn't really apply to our world.  We don't have a Winn Schott magically creating non-lethal weapons for our keepers of the peace.  So while I think the episode tried to speak for both sides (the gun manufacturer talking about how getting his first gun was a transformative and positive experience and Lena talking about how she likes having a gun for self-protection), these shows aren't nuanced enough to have those discussions with any depth.  So it comes off as cheap, like an 80s "Very Special Episode"

What they could've done, instead of what they did, was have a bulletproof (but maybe not super-strong) alien attack National City.  So the DEO responds with their DEO guns, and someone gets shot by some sort of ricochet.  They could have a discussion about "what's the point of having guns that can't hurt the people we're trying to shoot and does hurt people we're trying to save?"  They could still have the gun manufacturer scene because it could still affect their business (and the families of those that work there) if the DEO pulls their business.

But instead of "guns are good" or "guns are bad" it could simply be a discussion of "is this type of firepower necessary?" - which is still a discussion point.

The problem I have with it is that it didn't dive deep enough into the issue to get anything accomplished.  And, so, didn't really add to the discussion.  So at the end of the day, what's the point?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

And side question - is J'onn still using the Hank Henshaw identity?  He was referred to as "Director Jones" both at the manufacturer and the DEO.  When did this change?

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Some casting news:

Supergirl - Jessie Rath (Brainiac-5) will be a regular next season
Flash - Both Danielle Nicolet (Cecile) and Hartley Sawyer (Ralph) will be regulars next season

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Looks like Winn Schott has been reduced to recurring status:

https://tvline.com/2018/06/15/supergirl … -spoilers/

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

I was really hoping that Ralph would go away. It seems like they're continuing down the wrong path here.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Looks like next season of Supergirl will be adapting the Red Son storyline.  Color me interested.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Great. Supergirl tackling a vast Russian conspiracy. Isn't that concept sooooo 2017?

I shall continue to pass on this show.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Ha, I wouldn't say Red Son is about a Russian conspiracy.

I'm sure they'll make snide little comments, but I like Red Son.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

Enh.  I feel they are retreading a bit of ground there.  With Earth X, we just had oppressive government Supergirl; I don’t see where this will be different enough (even though there are differences).

There are just so many more Supergirl / Superman stories to visit.  For instance, a Supergirl version of the sand Superman story:

http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Sand_Superman_(Earth-One)

It is interesting in that the villain naturally becomes Superman the more it absorbs until you can’t tell the difference between the two both physically and mentally.  In a 1990’s re-telling, they even created a Wrong Arturo situation where a cataclysmic fight at the Fortress left you not sure which Superman survived (something that seemed designed as an escape hatch for the Superman marriage - maybe Lois married the sand creature and not the real Superman).

There would definitely be a season worth to mine out of that, and it would be an interesting look at self sacrifice.

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

TemporalFlux wrote:

Enh.  I feel they are retreading a bit of ground there.  With Earth X, we just had oppressive government Supergirl; I don’t see where this will be different enough (even though there are differences).

It's strange with crossovers, though.  I almost feel like those stories take place out of continuity.  Is it retreading for Supergirl fans that only watch Supergirl?  Especially since Supergirl is the show that, rightfully, has the flimsiest connection to the Arrowverse.

What's funny is that people assumed when Supergirl arrived on the CW that it would just be a matter of time until she arrived on Earth 1.  Now I don't think that's going to happen.

Although with Cat Grant gone and now Winn gone, it might not be the worst storyline in the world to have J'onn, Kara, and Alex get sent to Earth 1 for a season-long arc.  James' character is a mess, and most of the other characters are replaceable (either by other actors/characters or by doubles of the characters they played before).

Re: Arrow / The Flash / Supergirl by Informant

If the series make it six more years, we’re likely to have a merger of realities down to just one earth.  The “Red Skies” headline from the 2024 newspaper in Flash season one is a reference to Crisis on Intinite Earths where Flash sacrificed his life to save earth (the red skies being “the bleed” - normally the space between parallel earths that was seen in Crisis because the barriers between realities were breaking down).

Of course, the CW shows could choose to ignore all of that and do whatever.