Marvel Cinematic Universe by Slider_Quinn21 (Page 10 of 11)

I don't see what is remotely arrogant about a citizen criticizing the job performance of a civil servant. I mean, Gunn lives in America, right? Why should any one be afraid to be critical of any elected official in the US? Why should we want anyone in a supposedly democratic nation of liberty and free speech to be afraid to criticize those in power?

Slider_Quinn21's already run through how Gunn became a very different person. I have nothing to add. I think Gunn knew there would be consequences for speaking out and he has accepted them and will continue to work as a director, just not a Disney director. In his public remarks, he blamed no one, accepted responsibility and accepted the situation.

Free speech has nothing to do with getting or keeping your job; it doesn’t even get you to the head of the line at the soup kitchen.  But if Gunn truly wasn’t worried about it, then more power to him.  Personally, I don’t buy it.  I believe he thought he was protected and there could be no consequences; and I just have zero sympathy for those attitudes when it blows up in someone’s face.

There’s a thing called tact; and there are far too many people these days who have no understanding of what that means (including and especially Trump).

Yeah I don't get the idea that Gunn is the same guy who'd make jokes like that.  Like I said, I followed him on Twitter for months, and I never saw anything like that.  He seemed to have a lot of compassion for various people, and he was happy to engage almost anyone that was interested.  I know that doesn't say much about his private life, but he certainly never made off-color jokes like that.

I ended up not following him for political reasons, but it was just because I was tired of the political argument in general, not because of his specific arguments or the way he treated anyone.

Well, for the MCU as a whole, it sucks because Phase 4 was/is supposed to be more cosmic.  Between the Guardians and Captain Marvel and the Earthbound Avengers meeting the Guardians, it was supposed to create more space stuff.  And clearly the Guardians are a big part of that, and Gunn was a big part of what made the Guardians successful.

Now is it all Gunn?  Is it replicable with another director?  If Dave Bautista holds his ground, would they kill off Drax or recast him like they did with Rhodey and Banner?  Or will they go Cosmic some other way?

I don't know.  But if they get the Fantastic Four, that's one way to do it.  Spider-Man replaced the Inhumans when the latter petered out.  And the Guardians, like the Avengers or the Fantastic Four, has had a varied lineup.  It can survive Gunn or Bautista leaving.  That's somewhere they could put Hulk, for example.  Or someone like Vision.

And to add, if they truly want to go all in on cosmic, I think Marvel could follow up on some ideas from the Jim Krueger / Alex Ross series Earth X.  We’ve seen the head of a dead Celestial with Knowhere in Guardians; but what are Celestials and their motives?

A nearly extinct race from a long fought war, the Celestials seed young planets like eggs in order to reproduce; and they modify the evolving indigenous population so that a percentage can have have special abilities and intelligence to act as anti-bodies to protect the planet egg until it can hatch into a Celestial.  Galactus serves as a kind of galactic mongoose poaching the eggs so that “snakes” don’t overrun the universe.

It raises the interesting question, would the heroes save the world to doom the universe?  Defeating Galactus could mean that.

It was reported awhile back that Marvel is planning a movie based on The Eternals.  That’s notable because the Eternals is where the Celestials and their lore was introduced.

Has anyone watched season 2 of Luke Cage? If so, is there anything important that I need to know when going into the next season of Iron Fist? I know some characters are going back and forth between shows, but I just can't watch Luke Cage. I watched the first episode of season 2, and it was like watching a PBS documentary about paint drying. I don't know who writes that show, but it is insanely boring for a superhero series.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyMumktc51k

Because I like you, here's the fight scene with Misty and Colleen

I think LUKE CAGE is good, but I confess that I'm only halfway through the season and have taken a break. The series does not appeal to my personal sensibilities in that it's less about plot and the characterization is presented through mood, atmosphere, deliberate pacing and presenting the texture and experiences of Harlem and black people in New York City. It's not *for* me, but I can see and appreciate the quality of the writing, characters, cinematography, locations, music and performances. LUKE CAGE is primarily about different forms of masculinity -- and that's not something I relate to. Also, LUKE CAGE is an extremely serious show like JESSICA JONES and DAREDEVIL and PUNISHER and... I prefer my Marvel adventures to be more in terms of heightened escapism like AGENTS OF SHIELD or AGE OF ULTRON or IRON MAN III. I think I took months to finish DAREDEVIL and JESSICA JONES in their second seasons.  Also, I tend to identify more with women than men which is why, when Claire left LUKE CAGE, I felt the need to take a breather.

Jessica Henwick is splendid and I have high hopes for IRON FIST in its second season... although I would finish watching LUKE CAGE first.

I haven't seen RUNAWAYS or CLOAK AND DAGGER yet. I haven't even seen ANT MAN II. I generally only go to the cinema for special events like MISSION IMPOSSIBLE. The only reason I saw INFINITY WAR in theatres was because I was expecting AGENTS OF SHIELD to tie into it.

Black Panther comes to Netflix soon so you'll have that one for free at least.  I still think Infinity War is worth the $2 Redbox fee since it's just so incredible to have that many characters in one movie and for it not to be a cluster.

Although you'll think it's a cluster.

And I liked Danny and Luke working together, and I thought there were some good fight scenes using their powers.  Better than some of the stuff in the Defenders.  I think the problem with the Defenders is that Luke and Jessica are essentially the same powerset, and Daredevil and Iron Fist are essentially the same as well.  There's obviously slight differences, but it's a lot of either kung fu or brute strength.

Agreed.

I can't wrap my head around what Sony is trying to do with their portion of the SPIDER-MAN cinematic rights. They've agreed to a sharing arrangement with Marvel Film: Marvel can use Spider-Man in their films and provides consultation and creative guidance on Sony's Spider-Man features. Sony receives no money for Spider-Man's appearances in Marvel movies and Marvel will receive no payment for Sony's Spider-Man movies.

But Sony is also producing a feature films with Spider-Man's rogues gallery: a feature film starring VENOM is coming and there are plans for movies starring Silver Sable, Black Cat, possibly the Sinister Six and Jackpot -- and according to Kevin Feige, neither the upcoming VENOM nor any subsequent spin-off films take place in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and Marvel isn't involved with them.

According to Sony, VENOM and Sony spin-offs will neither contradict nor tie in to MCU films or Spider-Man films, nor will they feature Tom Holland's Spider-Man -- which has me wondering how these films can qualify as Spider-Man spin-offs if they don't originate in an actual Spider-Man film.

It'd be fair to note that DAREDEVIL, JESSICA JONES, LUKE CAGE, IRON FIST, PUNISHER and DEFENDERS have never been acknowledged by the MCU feature films nor did they spin out off the Avengers' movies. But Sony is producing films with characters who, in the source material, were introduced as antagonists to Spider-Man; the Netflix properties existed alongside Avengers in the comics as opposed to originating from them. The Black Cat and Silver Sable are conceivably fascinating standalone characters, but Venom and the Sinister Six always existed in opposition to Spider-Man and Sony is trying to sell Venom based on its connection to the Spider-Man brand from which Venom will be isolated.

I don't get it.

I think Sony is just throwing some stuff at the wall to see what sticks.  After all, The Punisher started as a Spider-man antagonist in 1974; it took 12 years before Punisher was given his own solo mini-series.

The problem Sony has is if any of the other characters could replicate that success, they would have already done it in the comics.  Venom did, but it’s very hard to separate him from his Spider-man origin.  Silver Sable had her own series for awhile, but it never set the world on fire.  Black Cat has had a few mini-series, but never took off.  The latest I’ve seen is that Sony is wanting to do a solo Kraven the Hunter movie; and I honestly have no idea where you take him without an existing super-heroic universe to put him in.  Kraven’s whole motivation is finding more dangerous game because he’s already bested every animal on earrh.

Sony is really just spinning their wheels unable to accept they should just take their part of the money from the Marvel Studios movies and let it go.  Their best bet is to be a Spider-man holding company; not a producer of material.

Incidentally, the comics are trying to separate Venom out at the moment - they’re trying to say we’ve misunderstood the white spider symbol all these years - the legs are actually wings. Venom is a dragon.

Watched Black Panther.

That leaves Infinity War and Ant Man 2 before I'm caught up.

Spoilers for IRON FIST Season 2 --

IRON FIST's second season is getting mixed reviews. The highest praise it's received is that it's not as much a disaster as the first season. Even the worst reviews noted that Season 2 was less boring than Season 1 and demonstrated basic competence.

My view: the show suffers from its inability to explore the mythology of the Iron Fist. All the Netflix shows are street level crimefighting stories, but DARDEVIL has courtroom drama mixed with crime noir, JESSICA JONES has female empowerment, LUKE CAGE has reappropriated blaxploitation, PUNISHER is militaristic -- IRON FIST should have dragon-punching mystic spectacle, but it can't afford it on a Netflix budget. As a result, IRON FIST lacks a distinct identity to justify its existence.

I still really enjoyed Season 2, but I confess -- I enjoyed it more as a writing exercise in repairing a troubled series. IRON FIST's first season had a ton of problems. It had Danny Rand as the heroic Iron Fist, sworn enemy of the Hand, protector of the city of K'un Lun.

However, his foster brother, Davos, declared that Danny, in returning to New York, had abandoned his post, stolen the Iron Fist power and left the city defenseless. Danny protested that (a) as the Iron Fist, it was up to him to define the role and (b) Davos was only upset that Danny left their friendship and that protecting K'un Lun was not an issue. This didn't address the accusation that Danny had robbed K'un Lun of its heritage and protection. 

Another conflict: Danny spent Season 1 regaining control of the Rand corporation. At no point did Danny articulate any intentions for his company beyond regaining his identity. This claim on the company, while valid, suggested his winning the Iron Fist and taking it to New York City was the same sense of entitlement. The show's only real response was to show Danny was an incompetent businessman before dismissing the plot.

This left the show's moral position confused: was Davos correct to call Danny a thief or was it Danny's right to leave K'un Lun? Davos was written to be violent, petty and cruel towards innocent people, effectively dismissing his criticisms. Yet, the ending of Season 1 showed K'un Lun destroyed, indicating that Davos was correct and that Danny had no right to take the Iron Fist and return to New York.

But the immediate follow-up was DEFENDERS which didn't explore the issue, switching the focus to defeating the Hand. The show couldn't seem to articulate any position, offering conflict but unwilling to commit to any defense or criticism of Danny's choices.

Showrunner Scott Buck would later take his clumsy grasp of moral judgment to INHUMANS (which is about a brutal monarchy of slavers as the heroes and their slaves as the villains and I don't even want to imagine how Buck would handle that one).

Anyway. IRON FIST's Season 2 had a new showrunner, M. Raven Metzner, who had inherited quite a mess. The premiere makes a number of immediate shifts: Danny has exited the corporate world and works as a mover, no longer using the Rand Corporation's money. This effectively declares that he only pursued his company as part of regaining his identity.

In this premiere, Davos confronts Danny over K'un Lun being left unprotected and now destroyed. Danny doesn't dispute this but notes that the Iron Fist is also sworn to fight the Hand which he helped destroy in DEFENDERS. Davos declares Danny unworthy of the Iron Fist and where Danny in Season 1 dismissed this, Danny is now deeply shaken.

Season 2 also shows some flashbacks to K'un Lun where Danny and Davos were regularly tortured to prepare them to compete for the Iron Fist. It shows that their final competition was rigged: both are evenly matched with Davos initially superior, Danny getting the upper hand at which point the judges (one of whom is Davos' father) declare Danny the winner when they could just have easily ruled in Davos' favour earlier or waited for the fight to turn Davos' way again.

This doesn't exonerate Danny from taking the Iron Fist from the city it was meant to defend. But it was the Iron Fist judges who steered a traumatized and dislocated orphan into a violently abusive competition and then rigged the match to assign him their most powerful weapon. It was the judges who abused Danny and then gave him the job of defending their home despite knowing he'd try to get home the first chance he got.

Season 2 also shows: Danny didn't 'win' the Iron Fist for being the best fighter; Davos was beating him. Davos' father saw Davos' psychopathy and preferred the Fist go to the weaker candidate, someone less volatile and supposedly easier to control.

Where Scott Buck introduced ambiguity that was confusing and frustrating, M. Raven Metzner offers clear definition. Danny Rand concedes the truth: Davos is too unstable to wield the Iron Fist, but Danny only pursued it for the power and prestige it held in K'un Lun. There is only one person in IRON FIST thus far who has shown the compassion, responsibility and commitment needed to bear the Iron Fist and wield it well. It isn't Danny. It isn't Davos. It's Colleen Wing.

Colleen is a teacher, not a soldier. Colleen seeks to protect, not to fight. Colleen had the strength to realize her commitment to the Hand was based on a lie and to turn against them. Colleen is worthy. And when Danny comes to this realization, IRON FIST shows Danny to be a hero in the true Marvel position where his strength is not in wielding power, but in his willingness to give it up.

It's strong writing. It doesn't come off as strong writing. IRON FIST in Season 1 was terrible. Season 2 is so focused on repairing Season 1 that the terrible and excellent collide to produce a Season 2 that is extremely average. Season 2 is so busy retrofitting itself into the show it wants to be – Colleen Wing as the Immortal Iron Fist – that by the time the job is done, Season 2 is over.

At the same time, deciding to replace your leading man is an extremely difficult proposition. It has to be earned over time and Season 2 is quite determined to earn it over its 10 episodes.

I have not seen VENOM yet, but www.them0vieblog.com, my favourite reviewing site, reviewed it and had some spoiler-free Thoughts.

https://them0vieblog.com/2018/10/03/non … ore-102708

I finished Iron Fist Season 2, and I agree with ireactions' assessment of the whole thing.  It, sorta, spoiled the way that the season ended up going, but I thought it was a really fun season.  I think it's easily the best season in a while and ranks up with Daredevil season 1 and Jessica Jones season 1 as one of the better Netflix Marvel seasons.  It's incredible the way they made all the boring characters into people I was interested in watching and following.

And while I don't understand the ending, I liked it.  Looking forward to more Danny and Colleen.

I finally saw Black Panther and really wasn't very impressed with it. One thing about Marvel movies that is getting old is the villains that are nothing more than a dark mirror of the hero (complete with the same powers).

BP was not very good.  None of these are very good.  If you're over the age of 16, and you want to see a good movie, try Three Billboards...

Iron Fist has been cancelled. That's a shame, since it was one of the more enjoyable shows. I'm not sure how this one gets canned, while Luke Cage lives on.

It's possible that Disney just wants these shows for their own service, or that the Iron Fist characters will move to other shows. As it stands though, the end of the series doesn't make a ton of sense to me. I guess it never will.

I wouldn't mind that, as long as whoever ran Luke Cage stayed far, far away from any new show.

If Disney does pick up the show, I hope they allow crossovers with the other shows still. With Danny making a big deal of Matt's death in season 2 of Iron Fist, it seems like those two should probably interact again at some point.

If they're moving Iron Fist to the streaming service, I'm guessing they'd eventually move all of them.  That's what I sorta meant.  Daredevil is just releasing season 3.  Jessica Jones is filming season 3 now.  Punisher season 2 is in pre-production.  Depending on whether or not Luke Cage was renewed for season 3 before or after the streaming service was official and in business, Iron Fist might've been the first show that they could've made the renew/cancel decision for.

If that's the plan, I'd expect to get a cancellation notice for Daredevil in the next couple months.  If it gets renewed, maybe they're just moving away from Danny and Colleen.

https://deadline.com/2018/10/luke-cage- … 202486487/

LUKE CAGE is cancelled. I'm shocked; the writers had been prepping Season 3, a renewal had been expected even after IRON FIST was cancelled. The first five episodes of Season 3 had been written.

Sets the stage for a consolidated, new show based on “Heroes for Hire”; but probably not.

I think the Loki and Scarlet Witch shows are definitely Disney streaming service material, but the company also owns a large chunk of Hulu. That is where the more mature shows would go.