151 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2018-01-03 08:58:03)

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

Something I've been thinking about since I saw the movie a second time?  Does Rian Johnson hate the Force Awakens?  I feel like he took a lot of stuff from that movie and either openly made fun of it or snuffed it out.  Is it pretty consistent that people that liked TFA didn't like TLJ and vice versa?

Things I've noticed:

The Rey/Luke scene:
TFA - Treated like a huge deal/cliffhanger.
TLJ - Treated like a joke.  Luke throws the lightsaber away and walks off.

Anakin's Lightsaber
TFA -This is the key.  Why is it back after so long?  How did it get here?  Now that Luke has it, what will happen?!?
TLJ - Luke doesn't care about it.  Ends up destroyed.

Kylo Ren's Costume:
TFA - "Here's your new Vader!"
TLJ - Treated like a joke.  Snoke specifically says that the helmet and the costume is dumb, and it seems like Kylo did it on his own because he thought it looked cool.  Kylo destroys the helmet and never wears it again.

Rey's Parents:
TFA - A huge mystery.  Maybe *the* mystery of the entire new trilogy.
TLJ - They were no one.  Doesn't matter.

TFA - This character knows everything.  Knows everyone.  She holds all the secrets if you know how to ask.
TLJ - She doesn't have time for this movie.  Get your deus ex machina somewhere else.

TFA - Here's your new Tarkin.
TLJ - Except he's a total idiot.

TFA - She's a badass.  You'll see.
TLJ - Not really.  Maybe dead?

TFA - This dude is the ultimate evil.  Very mysterious.  Fear him.
TLJ - Wears a dumb-looking gold robe.  Cut in half.  He doesn't matter.

TFA - Everyone loves Rey, and she's great at everything.  Always rescues herself.
TLJ - Luke wants nothing to do with her.  Suspects she might be evil.  She struggles with her training.  Has to be rescued by Kylo in the Throne Room.

Finn and Poe:
TFA - Finn is an insider with so much knowledge of the First Order.  Can use that to take them down, and Poe is the only guy daring enough to help him do it.
TLJ - Finn's plan is ridiculous and doesn't work at all.  Nearly gets everyone killed.  Poe's plans are reckless and gets tons of people killed.

TFA - Star Wars is the best!  Here's a reference!  And another!  Look, a bigger Death Star!  The Millennium Falcon!  Anakin's Lightsaber!
TLJ - "Let the past die.  Kill it if you have to."

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

Again Kevin Smith made a big deal about this, and I think while not good or bad, a lot of fans felt it was ill-advised to just scrap so many TFA talking points.  That said, Rian has said he started righting the script before TFA was released, so he probably read the script at that point only.  For instance, he supposedly didn't anticipate such a cult interest in the identity of Snoke.  That said, scrapping so many plot points, or revealing highly lame answers to them, really annoyed many people.  Look, this is the job of the producers to reign something like this in.  It's bizarre, because Lucas Film seem to micromanage everything about these new films, yet went along with all of this.

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

Star Wars has never been about mysteries, and I think the bigger sin is setting up the mysteries at all.  I think Rian Johnson agreed with that, and he's stated as much.  He said if Star Wars is going to survive, it has to become something more than what it was.

The Last Jedi is divisive because it's a hard reset to what JJ Abrams did.  Which is why it's going to be such a problem when JJ comes back.

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

I wonder how The Last Jedi would've been received if these changes were made:

- Rose and Finn sneak onto Snoke's ship.  Evil BB8 does not notice them.

- The throne room sequence from Rey's entrance to the death of the imperial guards is the same

- The rebels escape is the same

- When Kylo asks Rey to go with him, we don't see her answer.  It cuts away with Kylo holding his hand out and her looking at him.

- Rose and Finn work on the tracking computer.  They look back and DJ is gone.

- Hux enters the throne room to find Snoke and the imperial guards dead.  No one else is there.  No sign of Kylo or Rey.  Hux assumes command just as the final Resistance ship runs out of fuel. 

- Rose finishes her work and Finn radios to Poe to jump to light speed.  No one answers.  They look out a nearby window to see the ship explode.  As far as they know, the Resistance was just ended.

- Movie ends with the Resistance (the whole group that escaped) on the same red planet.  Their escape worked.  Hux never finds out that they got away.  Finn and Rose are stuck on the big destroyer, thinking they're alone now.  Kylo and Rey are gone.  Hux is in command of the First Order but also thinks the war is over.  Luke's story is still incomplete.

Ways I think it works:

1. It's a shorter movie.  The extra scenes on Ahch-To don't happen.

2. There's less failure (but still enough for the theme to work).  Finn and Rose accomplish their goals - it's just too late to save the ship (and Holdo, I guess).  The Resistance makes a full escape - their plan works perfectly.  Perhaps Rey got through to Kylo.

3. Luke is still an option to use for Episode IX (especially since Leia essentially says goodbye in this movie).

4. The galaxy is in a really interesting place.  The First Order is led by an incompetent fool who thinks the war is over.  The Resistance is small but not too small.  Help could still be coming.  And completely outside of the First Order/Resistance fight is Kylo and Rey, who have disappeared from the playing board.  Are they going to find the Knights of Ren?  Are they on the good side?  Or the bad side?  What will Finn and Rose do now, especially since Finn thinks all his friends are dead?

5. It leaves a lot of mysteries alive (which people seem to love).

What do we think?

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

I think it's terrible. I think your film would be the equivalent of those crazy Men's Rights Activists who created a fan edit of the movie where they cut any women and people of colour. Incoherent and baffling.

I don't think you're a terrible writer, I just think that you're better telling YOUR stories rather than trying to tweak someone else's material to suit your sensibilities and interests.

Honestly, the only thing I'd change about THE LAST JEDI is swapping DJ for Lando... And even then, I'm not sure I would. THE LAST JEDI is so intricate and detailed that it'd be better to make a different movie than to mess around with this one.

But I'm just one person.

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

Well, I don't know if I love it myself...but I watched the Red Letter Media review on Last Jedi and a lot of the complaints seem to be that nothing is really accomplished.  The film's theme about failure is just not getting through to people.

They also had a problem with Kylo "turning good" and then immediately undercutting that twist by becoming the cliche bad guy again.  In watching Kylo's character, I don't think he wants anything to do with ruling the galaxy.  He and Rey have similar goals - they want to understand their place in the galaxy.  Having them leave suits their interests.

And people seem to want there to be more mystery.  I injected a ton of that stuff in there.

So it's not about whether it'd make the movie better (because I liked it just fine) - would it have been better received by the people who hated it?

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

I watched Solo: A Star Wars movie.

That sure was a movie that I watched.

(that's my entire review)

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

I haven't seen SOLO and I'm going to try to keep this post short and follow my fiction-restricted diet.

Star Wars: Episode IX - "The Rise of Skywalker" Trailer:

Is director JJ Abrams going to backtrack on THE LAST JEDI and have Rey be Luke's daughter after all? It was implied by the visual composition of THE FORCE AWAKENS (Han reaches out to Kylo and dies; Rey reaches out to Luke with hope) and the original script (in which Luke would react to Rey by rushing towards her and embracing her). The RISE OF SKYWALKER title is designed to prompt speculation.

Alternatively, the Jedi truly are extinct and Skywalker could be a new designation of Force sensitive individuals. As the Empire rebranded into the First Order and the Rebels into the Republic, the Jedi are renamed the Skywalkers.

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

I have a complicated relationship with the sequels, but I'm pretty happy with the revelation that Rey is no one.  I hope that doesn't get retconned because I think it creates a great symmetry.  Kylo believes he's royalty.  That his control of the universe is deserved because of his bloodline.  For the Force to choose a random person to rise up to meet him is a great narrative work.  Kylo and Rey are true opposites.  If they end up as cousins...I don't know.

I think you're right - it's a designation of some sort.

I was more intrigued by the Emperor's cackle.  Is he back?  Cloned?  Was he Snoke?

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

He could be a Force ghost haunting the wreckage of the Death Star, an artificial intelligence, a flashback or a voicemail.

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

I'm waiting until the Marvel shows hit Disney+ to subscribe. But I've read that the STAR WARS (1977) film on Disney+ has yet another George Lucas revision in addition to all the other dumbass alterations he's made over the years: he's added a new shot to Greedo's death scene where Greedo now yells "Maclunkey!" before he and Han fire on each other and Greedo inexplicably fails to shoot a target sitting across a table from him while Han's head nonsensically inclines to the left while Han's blaster kills Greedo.

... it's bizarre. The insert shot of Greedo with his new line breaks the flow of the blaster fire immediately following the, "I've been waiting a long time for this, Solo" / "Yeah, I'll bet you have" exchange. It's a discordant note because "Maclunkey" is not subtitled, so the audience can't even understand what Greedo is saying unless they remember watching THE PHANTOM MENACE and recalling that at one point, the Sebulba pod racer tells Anakin, "Maclunkey," subtitled as "This will be the end of you." https://slate.com/culture/2019/11/star- … unkey.html

Dear God, WHY?! It looks like Lucas made this revision for the 4K release before he sold the franchise to Disney (and, to be fair, gave most of the money to wildlife preservations, inner city youth programs, museums and educational initiatives).

Anyway, I'm never going to watch it. I have the Despecialized Versions. Okay, that's not entirely true -- I watch the blu-ray version of EMPIRE STRIKES BACK.

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

Since Disney owns it all now (thanks to buying Fox), they should make the option available to watch the original trilogy as it was first presented in theaters.  Yeah - it would have visual fx problems, but that’s part of the charm.

Re: Star Wars [spoilers]

Part of Lucas' deal with Disney during the sale was that they would not go back and undo the various special editions and release a 1977 theatrical edition.

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