American Politics: Discuss and Debate (Page 21 of 26)

Where the hell is Informant? Now I have to be here to express my frustration with Joe Biden, a potential Democratic nominee for 2020. If he runs and wins the nomination, it will be another indication of how Democrats aren't really liberals at all. I don't think Biden is a rapist, but he is a harasser. And I don't think it's with malice: he, like me, was born to a culture that commodifies women's bodies as possessions for men's pleasure.

Like Biden, I grew up thinking that it was flattering to women to lay hands on them to indicate appreciation, that it was acceptable to touch hips and shoulders and legs and hair and backs without permission because, in this asinine belief system, it indicated regard for the female form.

Unlike Biden, this only lasted from age 18 - 24 for me at which point I started to befriend a lot of women who described their rage and violation from such behaviour; how it made them feel like their permission and autonomy didn't exist; how it made them feel powerless and furious with the world around them declaring them insane or easily offended for wanting control of their own bodies and the power to decide who touches them and who doesn't. I heard and understood and mended my ways.

I imagine that, like Biden, at some point, women whose space I've invaded will come out with their accusations. Unlike Biden, I wouldn't offer a meaningless ramble about lack of malicious intent in response. The best thing to do in these circumstances is confess, apologize, admit our lack of concern and respect for others, directly acknowledge the harm we’ve caused to women and their self-esteem and sense of self-ownership, note our upbringings and how such behaviour is not inherent to our natures and we can change, indicate that upbringings aren't excuses for mistreating others, accept whatever professional and personal consequences will result and hope that friends and co-workers and employers will understand that we're not who we used to be except Biden remains exactly who he used to be and should not represent liberal values, wokeness, democracy, democrats or the Democratic Party. Ugh.

The most upsetting part of it to me is the complete lack of empathy for the other side (from either side).  When Trump was elected, one of the things I was hoping for from our society was that the Democratic Party (certainly the party that cares more about people) would realize that they'd been ignoring a big part of their base (lower income white people).  While Trump's campaign strategy was certainly racially motivated, I think one of the things he did was tell lower income white people that the Democrats didn't care about them.  And it worked because, for the last few elections, the Democrats haven't.

The Democrats took lower class white people for granted.  They assumed that, since they're in a similar situation to minorities, they'd always be a reliable part of their base.  And since it was more "cool" to campaign to minorities, to women, and to Hollywood elites, the Democrats essentially ignored the lower income white people in the Rust belt.  And Hillary lost all those states.

Unfortunately, the Democrats didn't learn.  They haven't spent the last three years trying to understand what they did wrong, re-evaluate their strategy, and get the low income white Democrats back.  Since Trump was elected, they've done....nothing?  They've been angry at Trump.  They've made some gains in Congress.  But they haven't done much else.  I don't know if they learned anything from 2016 except to blame outsiders like Russia and the GOP.

There was someone on Twitter (I think Jason Alexander) who said something like "The GOP are going to trick us into another war.  Why do they do this?  And why do we let them?"

A ton of people responded.  Almost every one of them answered the first question.  No one focused on the second one.  I think Democrats have a problem of self-reflection.  I think they're on the right side of history, but they're a little too interested in playing the victim card.  No one focuses on the fact that the Democrats didn't have a real primary in 2016 - they had a coronation (and that's not even about Bernie Sanders.  Since he was an Independent, that means zero Democrats ran against Hillary in the primary).  No one focuses on the mistakes that were made in 2016 and how to fix them.  It's all about Trump.  It's all about Russia.  Democrats might've had their house broken into and vandalized, but they haven't gone through the trouble to fix the broken door or the broken windows or paint over the graffiti.

Even with impeachment, Democrats are essentially ignoring their party's part in things.  Tons of Democrats scream "IMPEACH HIM." No one seems to be asking Democrats to do it.  There seems to be some sort of hope that Republicans will simply change their minds and impeach him themselves.  If Democrats wanted impeachment, it could be done whenever.  The Democrats don't seem to want it.  I sorta agree with them, but the people that scream "IMPEACH HIM" aren't screaming it at their own party.  They're screaming it at Republicans.

The whole thing sorta drives me crazy.  There's no empathy.  There's no real debate.  There's two sides that *hate* each other that have left the other side to burn.  And, honestly, I don't see anyone trying to recruit moderates or independents.  The Democrats and Republicans are running to their fallout shelters, requiring a loyalty oath for admission, and they're getting ready to launch their nukes.  The rest of us be damned.

This is why I like to wait. Just wait. Let the information come. Reflect upon it. Otherwise, you end up being one of those people ranting about how BATWOMAN is a disaster when it hasn’t even aired.

Yeah. I figure that anyone saying such things is clearly predisposed to dislike content without bothering to see it.

And the sad truth is, the world is not split into Republicans and Democrats and while Republicans tend to be of the "BATWOMAN will suck even though I've never seen a frame" persuasion, Democrats are just as likely to jump on a bandwagon and sometimes, those bandwagons are headed to good places and just as often, they're headed for a brick wall.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4 … ll-of-shit

Joe Biden, the likely Democratic nominee for 2020, shows a total inability to control his hostility or communicate coherently in conflict.

I'm liberal, but I'm not a cultist who declares that whoever's been selected as a supposed standard bearer for my end of the political spectrum can do no wrong. That's something crazy people do. People like Allison Mack. I'm not insane, just a bit unsteady. And 2020 is looking like a contest between one incompetent, privileged, volatile, incomprehensible white man and another incompetent, privileged, volatile, incomprehensible white man.

Could have had Yang.

Biden is a wolf in sheep's clothing: https://www.reddit.com/r/Biden_OnTheRecord/

As Democrats go, Biden is a Republican, albeit one capable of not falling in with neo-Nazis and able to do his job or delegate others. Is marginal competence the best we can hope for? Is the alternative to having a cruel man with dementia in the White House instead an at-best tolerable man with Alzheimer's there instead?

Democrat strategist James Carville Jr. points out that liking or disliking Biden is irrelevant in this situation and I don't know if I agree. I think Slider_Quinn21 would agree. So here are Carville Jr.'s thoughts: that right now, what matters is winning.

TF and I are on opposite ends politically, but I once asked him why Cleavant Derricks was friends with David Peckinpah. Didn't Peckinpah fire all of Cleavant's friends and run SLIDERS into the ground? Why was Cleavant taking Portia and the kids to Peckinpah's house for family dinners and whatnot? Was the Peckinpah housekeeper's meatloaf really that good? Did they have bumper cars in the backyard? Dear God, WHY?

TF said that Cleavant was a professional and a businessman and that to accomplish anything in this world, you sometimes have to work with people you don't necessarily like or who have done things you find repugnant. That may or may not be why he didn't strangle me in my sleep for working with Transmodiar on SLIDERS REBORN.

Transmodiar would add/counter that Cleavant found SOMETHING to admire in Peckinpah, presumably their mutual love for their families. And that we should all do that; we should all look at the people around us and find some point of admiration or respect. This may or may not be why he kept resigning from SLIDERS REBORN and kept helping me with it.

It's possible the endpoint of Slider_Quinn21's view is that until someone other than the extremist Republicans have power, ideology is meaningless and so is ideological distaste for Joe Biden.

I'd take my dog over Trump right now.  Here's your mic drop moment....

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/12/81488135 … fell-short

I cannot see the economy or stock market having enough of a turn around over the summer.  Historically, when Presidents commit big scandals, it often harms his successive candidate from that party.  When the President directly or indirectly presides over nationwide disruptions or loss in people's livelihoods, that's the end of the line.  Hoover, Truman with Eisenhower, Carter, Bush Sr., even Bush Jr. with McCain all doomed.  They'll try to paint Biden as senile but their own guy has now been carved into granite as incompetent. 

Just think, had the Republicans in the Senate done what was right, and kicked Trump out back in January, Mike Pence would have taken over.  It's quite likely he would have been about 20,000x more receptive to his staff's seriousness of this pandemic, and acted quickly.

I cannot stress enough in the name of Quinn's bumper stickers, the Professor's bow-ties, Wade's sweaters and Rembrandt's vocal warmups that my views do not represent those of Sliders.TV.

I would identify as liberal, but I don't see most mainstream Democrats as liberal. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama were quite determined to prop up the banks that crashed the global economy, Biden presents as socially liberal but is economically and legislatively conservative. Again, this is where James Carville Jr. would say that a liberal political party needs to have its ideology as wide as possible to be broadly tolerable by centrists and those on either side -- "majoritarian" -- or it will never acquire sufficient votes to gain political power.

Why have Republicans become a cult that declares their leader cannot be questioned or criticized? Because their gerrymandering and closed ranks have helped them win political power and keep it without any serious challenge to losing it. It's a position of (political) strength.

And this is why I find Carville Jr.'s mentality alarming: I wouldn't want Democrats to simply become oppressors who wear blue sweaters instead of red hats. But he points out, not unreasonably, that if Democrats don't win, then they have nothing but empty, symbolic gestures of process and rhetoric in the House and the Senate.

Slider_Quinn21 and I have a mutual friend. And while our old conservative pal would declare that I do NOT understand him, I suspect that I understand him perfectly. Our acquaintance is an ardent Trump supporter who declares his supreme leader cannot be criticized and declares that anyone who does so is off their meds and needs psychiatric help.

It might be helpful to look at his attitude on a different subject -- and observe his angry declarations that no criticism of MAN OF STEEL or BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN is acceptable, valid or reasonable even when there are at least two flaws that are objectively present. MAN OF STEEL has a climax where Zod and Clark tear up Metropolis and crash buildings into each other, the equivalent of a citywide terrorist attack -- and the ending has people cheerily traipsing through the city with no trauma, grief, loss or even visible damage to the city.

Then with BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN  -- Bruce spends a portion of the film befriending Wonder Woman, but when she shows up, Bruce nonsensically says he thought Wonder Woman was Superman's friend. Our acquaintance simply ignored these two errors, declared us wrong to note them -- because he couldn't reconcile the idea that something to which he'd pledged allegiance could have genuine flaws or it would mean that reality does not always reflect his inclinations and preferences and he's spent too many years insisting that it does.

Then there's his consistently declaring that the Marvel movies are "a failure" and that they "don't work." If a 23 film series over 11 years is a failure by this gentleman's standards and measurements, then his metric is deeply flawed.

I am not immune to this myself. I was once infuriated by fellow fans who declared that Quinn in Season 4 was a valid depiction of the character. I pestered poor Slider_Quinn21 for daring to dislike Rey in STAR WARS. I was grossly inappropriate in my absurd contempt for pilight's ideas for rebooting SLIDERS. I was at the time angry that the world and others didn't reflect my inner thinking.

After some time and reflection, I came to realize that if I had nothing open-minded, kind or constructive to say, I should shut the fuck up. Also -- it is vital that we realize our likes and dislikes are not necessarily how the world around us is formed. That we may make mistakes ourselves.

We might have jumped on the wrong bandwagon, might be out of step with reality, might have backed the wrong horse or chosen someone whose conduct is ultimately not in line with the beliefs our political party of choice supposedly represents. I was certain VENOM would crash and burn at box office. I was wrong and it clearly struck a chord with a large audience.

Maybe my distaste for Biden will be proven wrong. I just know that Biden isn't the horse I would personally choose to ride. But I respect that Slider_Quinn21 is not blindly joining Biden's cult (if Biden has one) and sees Biden as (a) flawed but better than the worst and (b) a path forward. I can respect Slider_Quinn21 supporting Biden because Slider_Quinn21 remains capable of criticizing his chosen leader.

He'd never reschedule it.  It would be the end of American democracy.

The armed guard thing is a bit ridiculous.  That said, Fauci isn't ruling out a nationwide lockdown of restaurants and bars.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/15/politics … index.html

The drug fell out of use when malaria became resistant to it, so supplies may not be readily available. It’s still being tested.

Not necessarily.  There's a town in Italy that essentially shut down for two weeks - the people that had it were quarantined and recovered and the ones that weren't stayed away.  Transmission is down to zero.

We can't exactly shut the country down, but if we can get the transmissions to slow down even a little bit, get the tests out there, then we could get back to normal in a couple of weeks.  The problem now is that there's a lot of confusion, no tests, and we're still in cold and flu season (so symptoms can be confusing).  When we get into spring, some of that will have worked itself out, and hopefully the medical community (with or without Washington's help) will be better prepared.

Informant had previously posted links to videos by discredited journalist James O'Keefe claiming he had proof of electoral fraud in 2016, but given his history of deceptive editing, only Informant took him seriously. Recently, O'Keefe made Cracked.com's list of political smear artists whose methods backfired spectacularly upon them.

Well, I can tell you why Informant devoured James O'Keefe: it's because Informant desperately needs to believe that the world at large loved BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE (actual title) as much as Informant did and that anyone who didn't care for it is lying, delusional, unfair, mentally ill or in Marvel's pocket because the alternative would be to concede that Informant's personal views are not a universal default, not shared by all and not even within the mainstream. I noticed this when noticing how much it pissed him off to constantly be told, "I cannot stress enough in the name of all that is holy that the views of Informant do not reflect those of the Sliders.tv community."

By the way, I cannot stress enough in the name of Quinn's highlights, Wade's "Dead Man Sliding" dress, Rembrandt's shotgun and the Professor's orange slushie that the views of ireactions do not reflect those of Sliders.tv and that the Sliders.tv community at large is much smarter and cleverer than ireactions.

Informant, for example, is a much better writer and reviewer than I'll ever be. However... a person like O'Keefe assures Informant that his views are indeed shared by all and that anyone who claims otherwise is part of a conspiracy of electoral fraud and human trafficking because otherwise, Informant might have to concede that his point of view is only his own and a conspiracy panderer like O'Keefe assures Informant that anyone who disliked BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN: DAWN OF JUSTICE (actual title) is an agent of Disney.

And in terms of actual politics -- you have regularly pointed out that Republicans govern by minority rule; they use extensive gerrymandering to elect their candidates which undermines Informant's chosen belief that his politics are the default for all. O'Keefe's deceptively edited videos allowed Informant to justify gerrymandering by claiming it balances out the supposed electoral fraud that Democrats engage in. O'Keefe's work encourages white men to justify their sense of feeling under threat when their privilege is challenged, when a corrupt economic system that benefits them is questioned or when the world that's always validated them is called out as unjust for benefiting the few at the expense of the many.

I don't doubt Informant's sincerity in most areas -- except that curiously, O'Keefe is the one area -- the only area -- in which I caught Informant flat out lying. He claimed to be unfamiliar with O'Keefe's attempt to seduce a reporter and create a sex tape, but he later shared more and more of O'Keefe's newer videos; he was clearly following the man's career and would have known what he'd been up to.

Anyway. I am at the age where I welcome people challenging anything and everything I believe. I DEMAND that all of you disagree with me. My opinions are mine. You get your own!

**

Soooo, awhile ago, Temporal Flux made a very astute observation: the American population is fed up with Democrats and Republicans alike who promise economic relief, job creation, the chance to buy a home and start a family and have health care -- only to fail to deliver any real change. Temporal Flux said that the people voting for Trump didn't actually think Trump would help them; voting for Trump was a way to damage a government that had done nothing to help those citizens survive a collapsing economy and debilitating addiction and the breakdown of essential services and a social safety net. It was a protest vote, a scream of outrage.

And I understand that, but I think it's fair to say that not having a functional, semi-competent leader in government is possibly not the best move when that leader will be expected to, say, prepare his country for a pandemic with something resembling organization and an ability to solve problems and work with others.

There was plenty of introspective.  Why do you think there's a collective gasp, grown, sigh for 2+ years every time the media suggested Hillary would run again?  She was an awful candidate.  The Benghazi hoopla was absurd, same as the emails, same as Comey, Russia, etc.  Like Gore in Florida in 2000, I believe he got robbed, but the failure was being in that position to begin with.  Could have had 6,000 other Dems run vs. Trump and beat him handily.  Clinton and her husband blew it. 

That being said, the unbelievable psychotic vitriol coming from the Bernie Bros is just unbelievable.  They have done nothing but attack Joe Biden for weeks, little to nothing on Trump.  They're putrid.

I think there's been some introspective.  I don't think there's been nearly enough.  I thought Trump's election would be a wakeup call for the left, and it's been more of a light budge.  I think Grizzlor's right in the sense that they realized that Hillary was the wrong candidate, especially for that election. 

But I think the real test will be how Biden (or Bernie, I guess) campaigns.  2016 was lost because of one group and one group alone - poor whites.  They historically vote Democrat because poor whites have a lot of the same issues as poor blacks, poor Latinos, etc.  But the Democratic message ended up getting twisted as "white men are the reason for all America's problems" and that turned off poor whites.  That and, at the same time, the Democrats stopped campaigning for their votes.  In stepped Donald Trump who pretended to listen and it invigorated a forgotten base.  And invigorated the disgusting white supremacy we've seen.

In my opinion, the Democrats stopped talking to people and they tried to be too many things.  Their message should be simple - "We know you have problems.  We want to help."  And they can't just say it during elections - they have to mean it and follow through.  I think Donald Trump was a middle finger to politicians because Americans have lost faith in politicians.  We'll know if 2016 was a wake up call if we see any effort to gain that trust back.

********

All that being said, we need both sides to work together on this.  No more political bullshit.  We need to stand united against this damn virus, and we need to do it yesterday.  Democrats and Republicans.  China and the US.  Russia and Europe.  Everyone.  This is one of the big moments in human history, and we need to act like it.

Oh crap.

VOX: A sexual assault allegation against Joe Biden has ignited a firestorm of controversy
A woman says Biden assaulted her in 1993. Now #TimesUpBiden is trending.

Well, I wrote a bit in this thread about my irritation with Biden's lack of respect for women's personal space here: http://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?pid=8601#p8601

In addition, the first photo you're using -- that one is not a fair example. The lady in the photo is Stephanie Carter who has insisted that Biden was very welcome to touch her like that; she had hurt herself earlier in the day and Biden was helping her stand.

The problem is that there is a gap between being handsy with women and raping them.

I don't want Trump to win, but if Biden assaults women, he shouldn't be president. And it terrifies me that people who want Biden to win might simply refuse to acknowledge the accusation the way Informant ignored over 20 women accusing Trump of assault because he couldn't assimilate any criticism of his chosen leader.

Biden's accuser once penned an absurd, deranged opinion piece declaring Putin's rule in Russia to be benevolent, democratic, loving and peaceful -- an utterly delusional piece of propaganda that suggested she was a Russian plant and not a particularly covert one. But you can be a Russian mouthpiece and still be a rape victim.

Trump is unquestionably a violent sexual offender. He has bragged about entering women's change rooms and abusing women on radio and television; his entire demeanor conveys physical entitlement as he grabs world leaders hands and yanks them forward to put them off balance, sticks his fingers into politicians' faces -- just imagine how he treats women.

Biden's trespasses, in contrast, are from a misguided affection that was bred in a generation of men taught that women were objects -- objects of artistry and value to be protected and admired and treasured -- but ultimately possessions, and Biden's behaviour with women has reflected what was intended as benevolent ownership. And being treated as property, even valuable property, is intrusive and obnoxious and upsetting -- but it isn't necessarily the behaviour of someone who assaults people. Biden come off as my sweet, harmless, loving, naive grandfather.

However, that's just his public image. And as we know from watching the intellectual, reclusive, thoughtful Quinn Mallory onscreen as played by the dim, brash, arrogant Jerry O'Connell, someone's public image is not always their true self; it is what they choose to put out into the world. Trump is someone who deliberately presents himself as narcissistic, self-delusional, volatile and erratic and I suppose we can trust that. Can we trust that Biden is who he says?

Are we at the point where we say that voting for the man with one accusation of assault is a better option than voting for the man with 21 accusers for the same?

I think Biden should submit to an independent investigation of the assault accusation.

It's not just one - there have been eight women who have come forward about Biden's behavior/assault:

• Lucy Flores

• Amy Lappos

• D.J Hill

• Caitlyn Caruso

• Ally Coll

• Sofie Karasek

• Vail Kohnert-Yount

• Tara Reade