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From what I saw online from people who read poll crosstabs, that poll had a weird sample size:

- 72% white
- +13 leaning GOP
- 30% identify as democrat

I don't know if that's true or not, but if so, the poll isn't super helpful.  I would expect Trump to crush Biden in a sample like that.  Not to say that it's still not a huge concern for Biden.  There was a different poll that was fairly positive for Biden, but it still seemed to imply that people don't approve of him.  The indication from people who read into these polls is that it isn't the Middle East or the economy or anything.  People just think that Biden is too old.

Now what's interesting is that if you ask a random person who they should pick over Biden, you might get a response of "LITERALLY ANONE" - but the current Democratic primary doesn't show that.  Biden won New Hampshire without being on the ballot.  He crushed the competition in South Carolina.  Very few protest votes, for a write in or Phillips.  Maybe that says more about Phillips than it does Biden, but it seems like the Democratic party is behind Biden right now, maybe moreso than the Republican party being behind Trump.

I would feel much better if Biden were 10-15 years younger, but he's what we got.

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I don't play a ton of video games, but I love the Arkham games.  I've played all of them, which makes them essentially the only games I've finished in the last couple of decades.

Spoilers for Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League.  Like ending-spoiling spoilers.

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So I haven't played these games, and it's unlikely that I will anytime soon.  But Suicide Squad is a giant mess.  Considering that it's Rocksteady, I had high hopes that it would be fun.  But their whole slate of games is weird now.

1. WB Games Montreal (which created the fairly solid Arkham Origins) created a game called Gotham Knights.  It takes place in a world where Batman is dead, but it's unrelated to the Arkham games.  Which is weird because the last Arkham game ended with Batman "dying".  This is an unrelated game.

2. Now they've released Suicide Squad, which has Batman coming out of retirement to just be Batman again.  It's a direct sequel to Arkham and makes numerous references to being related to Arkham.

Okay so that's fine I guess.  Batman has died in many universes and Rocksteady is making the Suicide Squad game, right? 

Well, it's a little disingenuous to just have Bruce back as Batman.  It would be like making a Nolan movie sequel where Bruce is just Batman again with no other explanation than "I mean I guess he missed being Batman so he came back".  But then not only does Batman come back with very little explanation, but they kill Batman.

And again, this is the same Batman that people have played dozens of hours as.  Unceremoniously killed.  While being brainwashed.  Just literally shot in the head.

And I mean, at the end of the day, I don't really care.  I'm not going to play this game.  But the Arkham games do mean something to me, and it's insane that they took their protagonist, brainwashed him, and then killed him.  After all Bruce did in those games, he dies a puppet villain.

To quote the Angry Video Game Nerd....."what were they thinking???"

Apparently the game is also terrible.  But I'm just blown away with that decision making.  They also introduce the concept of a multiverse, but again, there are tons of references to this being the same universe as Arkham.  It does feature Brainiac so maybe the Justice Leaguers that you kill are clones.  Or maybe this is an identical universe to Arkham but not Arkham.  But man, what a terrible thing to do IMO.

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Biden certainly had a great South Carolina, blowing away polling averages.  Two polls came out this weekend - one was very bad for Biden and one was very good for Biden.  I think we won't know too much until we see what happens with all this immigration stuff, see how Americans start changing their thoughts based on the economy, and Trump's trials.

But an alarmingly low number of Americans even know what the trials are about.  So I think getting them started and getting regular news updates from mainstream media sources could help.  This is a bad dude who shouldn't be near the White House.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Well this is what I've been saying.  Trump's campaign could well go broke, it doesn't matter.  Also, I'm not sure that those "on the fence" truly need a jury to convince them of Trump's culpability in those cases, nor his propensity to behave in that manner again.  Like most things with Trump, he is so transparent there's no grey area, you either support his tactics, abhor them, or just look the other way.

Polling suggests that the conviction matters.  A large section of republicans claim that they couldn't vote for Trump if he's convicted of any of the charges (which would presumably mean the New York one as well).  So the trials themselves matters, especially since a lot of people aren't paying any attention to the charges.

Biden's been pretty good about the border stuff in recent weeks, and the Republicans are saying all the quiet stuff out loud.  I could see sentiment start to change if this keeps up.  Biden has promised to shut down the border, and House Republicans might put it all on hold.  And they're admitting that they don't want to fix the problem.

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Getting really frustrated with the court system.  I get that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but this is benefiting no one but Trump.  In all but the New York case, Trump has used legitimate means to delay all these trials, and people (the DC Appeals court, Judge Cannon, etc) are playing into his hands.  I understand that people need time to prepare a defense, but Trump isn't arguing that he didn't do any of the things he's accused of.  He's essentially pleading guilty to the crimes but saying the crimes are wrong.  It's all so frustrating because it's important for the country that these trials are done before the election, and I don't know if any of them will even start before the election.

That being said, the trials are bleeding Trump dry.  He's spending so much of his campaign money on legal fees, and I don't know how he's going to be able to keep doing this and keep up with the spending of the Biden campaign.

Now both these guys are such known commodities that maybe spending won't matter.  But I don't know how you can be a Trump donor and not be furious that he's spending his money on that stuff and not trying to be president.

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I still blame Hillary Clinton for 2016 quite a bit.  I've softened on her a lot, but I think if Biden had wanted to run in 2016 and she'd "allowed" it to happen, that Biden could've crushed Trump in 2016.  Even now, he doesn't have the unfavorables that she had.  She was a uniquely bad candidate to run against Trump at the time she ran against him.  If it had been a younger Biden coming off a mostly-successful Obama administration, I think Biden would've done much better in the Rust Belt.

I hope we get an open primary in 2028, and I hope there are some new, younger candidates that answer the call.

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pilight wrote:

The DNC didn't want Obama when they got him.  They wanted Hillary Clinton in 2008.

Harris won't get an unopposed run in 2028 unless she's already president.

Yeah, I guess the last VP of a popular president (Biden) wasn't the nominee as soon as Obama left audience.  Harris could give a similar reason if she either doesn't want it or she's pressured to not take it.  And it's not to say that there aren't popular Democrats that could've run if Biden and Harris didn't run.  Obviously Newsom wants it.  I think Whitmer or Warnock would be really strong candidates.  I really like Mayor Pete, but he doesn't have very broad support and I just don't think America is anywhere near ready for a gay president.

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Grizzlor wrote:

In a debate, Trump has zero self-control left, he will be spouting utter nonsense and vitriol the entire time.  What he did in 2020 harmed him greatly, and he's 50x less hinged now.  Biden look come off frightening, but he has the issues mostly on his side, as long as he doesn't bungle.  Honestly, he needs to take a page from earlier Trump, and when they come after him on a bad subject like immigration, throw it back at them.  Blame Republicans for refusing to "say yes" to reform, and most importantly, do not once respond to a Trump thrown insult.  He'll be seen as rational, and the other guy will continue to be viewed as a psychopath.

Yeah, I agree with this.  But I suspect there will be no debates at all.  And unless the mainstream media starts covering the crazy stuff from Trump's speeches, I don't know if most people will see it.

And Haley keeps going on Trump news outlets and keeps hammering him on his demeanor, his electability, and his tirades.  She's finally started throwing real punches, and she needs to stay in the race as long as possible.  She got a huge influx of money when Trump threatened her donors, and the longer she keeps attacking him (and he keeps attacking her), the more votes Trump will shed.  She has less than zero chance of winning the nomination, but she can absolutely damage Trump's road to the White House.

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Grizzlor wrote:

The funny thing is, I find Biden would actually benefit from a debate much more than Trump.

I sorta agree.  That "Go to a Trump Rally" article I posted a few weeks ago really opened my eyes to the idea that I don't think Trump supporters have any idea what 2024 Trump is about.  He's gone so far down the far-right conspiracy theory stuff that I think if they heard him speak at any length, it would turn them off.  I'm talking about non-MAGA Trump voters that don't regularly watch Fox or the other conservative networks.

The few Trump voters I know don't like him as a person but like whatever candidate they feel will help them economically.  I think if the economy continues to be good and if they heard Trump parroting Q-Anon nonsense and talking about dismantling the Deep State and rambling about toilets and magnets, they might be less likely to care enough about minor economic benefits to actually vote for the guy.

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I think that's the main problem.  If the Democrats had another Obama, I think this election would basically already be over.  But they don't.

Interestingly enough, they probably could've made this election a slam dunk if they wanted.  Biden made reference early on to only wanting to be a bridge to the next generation of Democrats.  Essentially that he'd be a one-term president and let someone else take over.  The problem was 1) Biden didn't seem to actually mean that / want that (or he changed his mind) and 2) he needed Kamala Harris as a VP to consolidate his coalition.

Which leads to 3) Kamala Harris just isn't very beloved across the board.  I don't have any problem with her at all, but she usually polls worse than Biden.  Republicans use her as ammunition (Haley did it again last night) to scare each other into avoiding a second Biden term ("you'll get President Harris").  Of course, a lot of that could be racist and/or sexist, but it doesn't matter.  I don't think Democrats would be any more enthusiastic to vote for Harris over Biden, and I don't know if she would have a better chance of beating Trump than Biden does.

And if Biden only did one term, would the party have an open primary?  Or would they rally around Harris anyway?  Would having an open primary be a slap in the face to the people that voted for Biden because Harris was on the ticket?  If the first female vice president was unceremoniously replaced by some white dude on the ticket after serving only one term, would that be the real progress that America was hoping for?

And then there are the questions.  Would Biden have still won if he'd pick someone like Amy Klobuchar as his VP instead of Harris?  Would Mayor Pete be more of an heir apparent if he weren't gay?  How would things have changed if Michelle Obama legitimately wanted to be president?

And the biggest one: why didn't the Democrats spend the last three years tirelessly working to find the next Obama?  And, maybe the scarier question, what if they did and just couldn't find anyone?  I think there's a world in which Harris could realistically retire as a one-term vice president and it wouldn't lose the next person any votes.  She and Joe ride into the sunset together having defeated Trump, and Democrats rally around the next person that everyone is on board with.

***********

I know that didn't answer your question.  I'm certainly not enthusiastic about Biden, but I'm ready to vote for him.  But I'll admit I would be equally as excited to vote for Whitmer or Warnock or Newsom or Mayor Pete or Harris.

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I agree with most of that.  I think the Biden campaign's thought is that Trump's base hangs on his every word.  Biden's base might, but most of America doesn't.  I don't think the polling should be written off, especially since the polling has (in 2016 and 2020) underestimated Trump instead of overestimating him.  Now in 2020, for a variety of reasons, polls tended to be more Democratic than Republican so maybe they've fixed that and polls are just more accurate.  But I think that as soon as most "normal" voters are exposed to more of Trump, they'll remember why they were annoyed by him in the first place.

But I still think this is too important of an election to sit back.  Biden needs to win by as much as possible to make sure that most sensible people don't believe anything was rigged.  Because the election is only part one of the struggle - even if Biden is elected convincingly, we're going to have to watch as states refuse to certify votes and see what happens on January 6, 2025.

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Yeah, they're also apparently bringing in the actor that played Bullseye, which means it might be a direct continuation of season 3 as opposed to the more vague plan they seemed to have before.

I'm glad the Netflix shows are canon, but I'll be intrigued to see what else they'll bring back.  Of the Netflix shows, I'd like to see more of Colleen Wing, and I think a Heroes for Hire project could be fun.  Even if it's a one shot movie like Werewolf by Night or the Guardians' Holiday event.

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pilight wrote:

They make every election seem like the end of the world, but it's not.

So the reason why I tend to agree that it would be very bad (not necessarily the end of the world but very bad) is that Trump is unlike most of the people that run for president.  Not only is he an (alleged) criminal, but he has shown time and time again that he's never going to put the interests of the country ahead of his own.  I think he's compromised, not only from a financial sense but from a personality sense.  I think having met guys like Putin and Kim Jong-Un, he wants to run our country like they run theirs.  He's already laid out a plan that would do damage to the way we run the country, and I think that damage would extend beyond four years.  He's also talked about not leaving after four years, and he's working to make enough changes that there might not be any one who can stop him if he tries that.

He also has legitimized the idea that elections cannot be trusted, he's empowered some of the worst segments of our population, and he's empowered a bunch of crazy people that think and act like him.  We were already divided politically, but he supercharged that.

And even if all the things above aren't true, I still think he cannot be allowed to be president.  Even if he truly loves America and is actively working to improve it.  Even if elections are horribly corrupt and fraudulent.  Even if the crimes alleged against him are bogus and political.  Even if every word he's ever said is true...

...he's still a terrible person.  He's still a loudmouth narcissist.  He's still insulting of soldiers and women and minorities and the disabled.  He's still crude and disrespectful and foul and awful.  And I have two daughters who will, between 2024 and 2028, understand what a president is and what he does.  They will be told in school that the president is a great man who is to be admired and respected, and they're going to talk about who is the president.  They might watch the news and hear him speak.  And for all of the flaws of the presidents of my lifetime.  Reagan might have been senile, both George Bushes might've been war criminals, Bill Clinton might've been a pervert, and Obama might've been a socialist (I'm not saying any of these things are true, BTW), but they all talked and acted like presidents when it was time to be president in front of the country.  You could disagree with them but you would respect them.  And I don't want my daughters to have Donald Trump as their president, especially now as they're in their formulative years.  Biden's old, but you can respect him.  I cannot respect Donald Trump.

So I'll do everything I can to make sure he cannot be president again.  And I'm hoping the Biden campaign is doing the same thing.  Compromise, pivot, engage, collaborate, campaign, travel, speak....do whatever you need to do to remove support from Trump to get the win in 2024, and make sure he doesn't tear down the country on his way out.

Maybe it wouldn't be the end of the world.  But Trump as president isn't a world I would be happy or proud for my children to live in.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Regardless, it's not an issue IMO that will decide the election.  However, if as I suggested months ago, that Biden turns the tables and now points the finger at Republicans who refuse to sign onto their own bill to fund border security, because Trump told them not to, well that is quite the play.

I guess we'll see.  I'm just saying that if the Democrats think this is as important of an election as they say, then they can't take anything for granted or assume anything.  Every issue needs to be attacked with the idea of getting as many votes as possible.  Clinton lost in 2016 because she assumed that she didn't need to campaign in certain places because she assumed the Obama coalition would stay with the Democrats.  And that coalition fell apart.

Biden can't make that same mistake.  He needs to aggressively court as many votes as possible, pivoting wherever he needs to.  Whatever he does, it won't be any less humane or any more totalitarian than what you'd get under Trump.

Win in 2024.  Worry about literally anything else after that.

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Yeah, I saw that.  That was very good. Whether it's a legitimate problem or not, Biden needs to make sure he's addressing it.  If they can flip this on the Republicans, that would go a long way to Biden winning convincingly.

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I mean I'm in Texas.  I don't see any problems here.  I don't feel invaded.

The problem is that it doesn't matter whether it's a real issue or not.  It's an issue for Biden in the general election.  He can ignore it, write off people who think its an issue, and maybe he can still win.  Or he can do something about it and maybe win back some voters.  I'm not looking to take any chances and since 80% of Americans think that Biden is to the left of them on immigration, I think it's reasonable for him to move to the right.

He could also divert funds to the Border Patrol.  He could make a big deal about the parts of the wall he's forced to make.  There's a ton of space between where Biden is now and where Abbott is that he could move to the right on.  The choice isn't "razor wire and kids in cages" or "do nothing."  There's a lot he can do that wouldn't be harmful or inhumane to migrants.

And if he wants voters who are generally fine with Biden as long as the border gets fixed, then isn't it worth it to get those voters?

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The border is going to be interesting.  Senate Republicans were trying to push through a bill that would address the border, Ukraine, and Israel.  They were urging House Republicans to take it because it's their only shot.  The thought being that, if Trump wins, the Democrats will be unwilling to negotiate on anything.  House Republicans freaked out, as did conservative media.  Then Trump got involved.  He wants nothing to happen so he can campaign on it.

Meanwhile, the Republicans in my state are taking matters into their own hands, ignoring federal orders and the Supreme Court.  Trump and a bunch of Republican governors are supporting it, and it's unknown how that's all going to be resolved.

But it's so bizarre.  Republicans are on conservative TV, talking to Republicans about how they're not going to pass any legislation at the border because it helps Biden.  So they're telling their voters that there's a problem, but they're going to leave it a problem for the next ten months to help Trump.  Meanwhile, they're going to allow/help Texas take matters into their own hands. 

If they succeed, the border will be less of an issue (because it'll be harder to cross the border, I guess) and Republicans can take credit, but would that also take the issue off the table?  Do voters really care how the problem got solved if it got solved?

I've said it before, but I think Biden needs to pivot to the right on the border.  He shouldn't pivot all the way to Abbott, obviously, but polling shows that almost everyone thinks Biden is too left on this.  There also aren't nearly enough people to the left of Biden that he needs to worry about.  Biden shouldn't wait on Congress and should issue executive orders that strengthen the border.  Work with anti-Trump Republicans to see what would be a good compromise and make it work.  He has to address it, or it's going to kill him in November.  And he can't say it's not an issue because voters think it is.

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You could argue that she's the biggest star on the show.  Budget might restrict their abilities to fully take care of every one of her demands, but I'm sure they understand that.  The Orville is an ensemble cast and could survive it even if she didn't want to come back (for whatever they're able to pay her or however they want to work), but I think her presence would be missed, maybe more than anyone but Ed.

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She's driving him insane.  He's attacking anyone supporting her, and this will cost him votes the longer she stays in.

He also released this long video talking about his plan to disassemble the Deep State.  Hopefully this video gets spread around because there's no way that plays with non-MAGA Republicans or Independents.  The crazier he gets, the more comfortable I get that Biden will win.  This far-right QAnon-focused campaign is not going to play.

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Well, I guess I don't know.  The way Palicki talked, it didn't seem like she was under contract anymore or thought the show would continue.  The article implied she wouldn't be back, but I don't know if that's necessarily true.  I'm sure she's upset, but work is work.  And as long as they don't make her sign something that holds her hostage, I think she'd be willing to come back.

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QuinnSlidr wrote:

Even though Haley may be hurting Trump, she is just as bad and endorses all of his same policies. I'll feel better once both are out and Biden secures another term.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. 

Haley is speaking out and convincing Republicans that Trump is literally talking crazy.  She's telling the truth, and people are listening.  It isn't enough people for her to win (any) primary, but any amount helps.  Of course she isn't going to win, but as long as she's in the race, she's going to attack Trump (even if it's weak or limited) and Trump has to campaign against her and not Biden.

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No, you didn't misinterpret.  I'm just saying that I assume she'd come back if the contract makes it worth her time.  I hope she comes back - she's a good character and fairly vital to Ed's story.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Haley is "expected" to hang around until her state's primary on Feb 24th, where polls show her being demolished by Trump.  There's even rumblings from her team that she might choose to languish through Super Tuesday two weeks later, because 11 of 16 states are "Open" primaries where you don't need to be registered Republican to participate.  She's delaying the inevitable.

I guess it depends on what she's trying to get out of this.  If nothing else changes, it's probably pointless to stay in the primary.  If she has the money, there's reasons to stay in.  If she's betting on MAGA falling apart after 2024, she's probably the frontrunner of the 2028 if she stays in long enough.  She doesn't have majority support, but she does have a lot of support.  Anti-Trump Republicans will remember, and it could put her in a good spot.

Let's also not forget that Trump is a) about to be on trial b) making an alarming number of gaffes and c) is 77 and not particularly healthy.  If he has to drop out for any reason, Haley is at least picking up delegates.  The more she stays in, the more delegates she gets.

And, again, if she has money, the longer she stays in the more she hurts Trump.  If she's legitimately concerned about Trump, staying in forces Trump to work and spend money to fight her, and it delays the whole party getting behind him.  Not to mention, he's losing more and more suburban women every time he attacks her.  Even if she loses every primary, I'm hoping she stays in as long as possible.

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I know Palicki spoke negatively about her experience, but I assume if they pay her properly for her time (including any time she's not working), I assume she would come back.  She hasn't really worked much since the Orville ended (which may be her choice), but even if it was some sort of smaller role, I don't think she'd just not come back.  At least, that's not what I got from her interview with Michael Rosenbaum.

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Grizzlor wrote:

It just feeds my personal paranoia that Trump will not face criminal prosecution before November.  The justice system I really feel is telling the electorate, we're not going to save you people, you have to do it yourselves.

This is how I feel.  I think everything is set up for the trials to be background noise in the election instead of an actual issue.  Which sucks.  I think people would pay attention to a Trump trial and see all the things he's done.  Polls have shown that non-MAGA Republicans are willing to listen to reason and that significant swaths of them would abandon Trump if he's convicted of anything.

The annoying thing about Georgia is that they had to know that Trump and team would be looking for any distractions they could find.  Anything to appear political.  Anything to throw people off.  How could they not have thought about this before they proceeded.

I don't think it kills the Georgia case because it won't go to trial for a long time.  By that point, they'll either have their ducks in a row, or we'll have already talked it to death.

But like I said, our best hope is the DC case.  A strong case.  A judge that wants to move the case along.  I think as long as the case is more about Trump's election interference and less about January 6th (which non-Democrats seem to have stopped caring about), I think it could be deadly to Trump's cases.  We just need the courts to move this immunity appeal along.  They have to stop playing into Trump's hands with all the delays.

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I think the 2024 election will come down to a few things:

(as shorthand, I'm going to refer to anyone that's actually a toss-up voter as "non-MAGA".  Obviously MAGA will vote for Trump no matter what and Biden will get the hardcore Democrats)

1. The economy.  The economy is starting to worry Trump because he's talking about it a lot.  He's recently admitted that Biden has been drilling a ton, has admitted the stock market is doing really well, and has admitted that gas prices are down.  Of course, in typical Trump fashion, he's claiming that Biden is just drilling for the election and that drilling and gas prices are going to go back to low and high, respectively, once Biden has been re-elected.  He also claims that he's responsible for the stock market being high since he's winning in the polls.

So what will non-MAGA think of any of that?  Will they believe Trump's theories or trust how the economy "feels"?  Will they give Biden credit for a strong 2024 economy, or will they still blame him too much for the post-Covid economy?  Trump is obviously positioning any Biden success as Trump success, but will that work with people that might not love Trump?

Obviously, if the economy tanks (or even just doesn't keep getting better), Biden is going to have a hard time.

2. The Border.  The other thing that Biden polls poorly at (at the moment).  But Biden has been speaking about it a lot, and the new Republican conspiracy theory is that Biden wants the House to not pass the border deal so that he can claim it's the Republicans' fault.  I don't know what non-MAGA is going to make of that.  Will they simply go by statistics (meaning even if Republicans pass legislation, Biden gets credit?) or will they understand the issue deep enough to know the details?

3. The Trials.  This is actually #1 in terms of things that will impact the election, I think, but I'm putting it here because I think it's a less reliable factor since we don't know if any of these trials will happen in time for it to matter.  I think there's a 0.0% chance that the Florida case happens before the election (if at all, if Cannon has her way), and it's the same chance that Georgia gets started before the election.  That leaves New York (which I think voters care less about) and the big one in DC.  DC is the only one that I think has a chance to move the election (polls have said that if Trump is guilty of any of the crimes he's been indicted for, he could lose as much as 1/3 of his support, but I can't imagine they mean New York).

So in DC, Trump is arguing about immunity.  And he's talking about immunity a ton.  For whatever reason, the appeals court hasn't ruled yet.  The longer they wait, the longer the appeal to the Supreme Court.  And if the Supreme Court takes the case, the delay could be massive.  Best case for people wanting the trial to be complete before the election (win or lose) is for the appeals court to rule against Trump and for the Supreme Court to deny taking the case.  If that happens, we should probably have a trial during the summer or earlier.

If Trump is convicted, polling strongly suggests that Trump has no shot.  He'd essentially lose half of his non-MAGA support.  Would voters change their mind (making more or less of them not vote for him) by the time the election comes?  Absolutely.  But I just can't believe enough Americans are willing to vote for a convicted felon for Trump to win.

4. Trump and Biden gaffes.  They're both older, and they're both prone to speaking like older men.  Biden's is more about looking old and frail.  Trump's is more about being confused about people or places or time periods or history.  We'll have to see if Trump's recent gaffes affect him in polls, but I'm assuming that enough people aren't paying attention yet (and the media isn't really covering the gaffes).

I agree that perception still matters, but will Americans be more likely to vote for frail or crazy?

5. The wars.  Ukraine, Gaza, and the Houthis will be a big part of the election.  Trump can claim that he was strong enough that no one was willing to go to war while he was president.  Biden can claim that Trump was buddies with dictators and despots who were too busy getting everything they wanted to go to war.  I do think Putin is trying to cause as much trouble as he can because it helps Trump.  Will Americans believe that?  Will pro-Palestine democrats cause issues for Biden if Gaza isn't resolved by the election?

6. Biden's wins.  Will non-MAGA give credit to Biden for all the things that Biden was able to do?  The infrastructure bill is starting to show real progress that Americans are going to notice.  Are they going to know that Biden provided that progress?

7. Social issues / "Woke" - I think any discussion of this hurts Biden.  Luckily, it seems like DeSantis was going to run his entire campaign on this stuff, and he didn't do very well.  So maybe Trump won't bring it up as much either.

I think most of these are positive for Biden.  The only question is whether non-MAGA will consider them positives.  Will they give him credit for a strong economy?  Will they trust that he's working on the border?  Will they abandon Trump based on the trials?  Will they pay attention to the craziness Trump talks about?  Will they blame Biden for wars abroad?  Will they give Biden credit for what he accomplished?  And have they moved beyond the "woke" stuff?  I think they need to say "no" to most of these for Trump to win, but I don't know if that's horribly unlikely.

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(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

Here's what your missing.  In Iowa, 2/3rds of caucus voters believe Biden was illegitimately elected!

So there's two things at play here, and one is actually somewhat reasonable (although, of course, I disagree).  There are the MAGA people who believe that Trump got millions more votes and won states like California and New York and that there was actual fraud in the 2020 election.  This group includes Trump and has been proven false a million different ways.

Then there are the people who believe that state governments illegally allowed for voting rule changes without getting them fully approved.  That state governments "broke the rules" by allowing people to vote easier during Covid. 

Are they right?  Sorta?  I think some of the changes they made during Covid didn't go through the avenues they were supposed to go through.  And if you throw those votes out, it probably does mean that Trump had more votes.  And if you just go by that definition, Biden is illegitimate.

The problem is that you can't just throw those votes out, even if they impact the result.  Whether or not the way they voted was, at the end of the day, legal is irrelevant to the decisions that were made when the votes were cast.  If a Biden voter saw that they could drive-thru vote, they probably took them up on it.  It doesn't mean that they wouldn't have gone in and voted "legally" if they weren't given that option.  You can't assume they wouldn't have voted "legally" if that was their only choice.  They were legal votes counted by registered voters.  There was no fraud done by the voter.  It's the system that, if you follow the letter of the law, may have allowed voting to be done illegally. 

And I think the percentage of people that don't believe Biden is legitimate is comingling a lot of things.  I think there are people that believe there was voter fraud, but I think a lot of people a) are just saying that because they don't like Biden (I'm assuming a large number of the same people might say Obama wasn't legitimately elected) or b) they are thinking about state legislatures think all votes that were committed in a way that may or may not have been legal at the time should be thrown out. 

I still maintain that if 2/3 of Republicans truly believe that Joe Biden *stole* an election, there'd be more civil unrest.  That leads me to think that either they don't really believe it, they just don't like him so they're insulting his presidency by saying he's illegitimate, or they're talking about overreaching by state legislatures because of Covid and probably understand that it probably didn't impact the results but by the letter of the law is incorrect.

Grizzlor wrote:

However, Biden is going to be an awful campaigner, and it's going to be a TALL ask for people (as the media continues to normalize Trump) to be convinced that someone should lead the free world well into his 80s.

Biden should have a really strong campaign, I think.  The economy is doing well.  He's speaking out on the border, and it's Republicans that are currently blocking solutions at the border.  He's trying to thread the needle on Israel.  And as you said, Biden has actually followed through on a lot of his promises.  Biden himself might not be the best person to send that message because he looks so darn frail when he talks, but the message of the campaign is strong.

If it was the 60s, I think it would probably doom him.  But there's so many ways that people get their news now, and so little of it is going to come from Biden's mouth.  I'm not thinking that there's going to be any debates this year (I don't think either side wants to do it), and I think the average American is more likely to hear Biden's message from a Biden surrogate than Biden himself.

I agree that Biden probably needs to have as minimal of a presence in the campaign as possible, but I don't know if that's necessarily going to be as big of a problem as you think.

628

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

QuinnSlidr wrote:

In other political news, as the republican party continues to implode, Ron DeathSantis has suspended his campaign for the 2024 Presidential election.

Excellent news. Another fascist bites the dust.

I agree that DeSantis doesn't need to be anywhere near the White House, but his exit from the race this early is not excellent news (at least not from my vantage point).  About a year ago, I was talking to my aunt, and I told her that the best bet for a Biden re-election was a war between DeSantis and Trump.  Because it would be mutually assured destruction.  If Trump won, he'd turn off enough DeSantis voters to make a difference.  If DeSantis won, Trump would go nuclear and destroy the party.  Win-win.

As I said, there are already a lot of DeSantis people on Twitter saying that they're never going to vote for Trump.  That Trump had already attacked DeSantis enough.  Oddly enough, a lot of DeSantis folks are anti-vaxxers that are mad at Trump for his handling of Covid and his kind treatment of Fauci.  They blame Trump for the vaccine and for the shutdowns, and that's a bridge too far for him.  Many are saying they'll vote Republican down ballot but leave the presidential race blank.  Or vote RFK Jr.

That would obviously help, but I was hoping for a longer battle between them.  And I didn't think DeSantis would cave so fast and endorse.  I assume he's looking for a cabinet position since his political career in Florida might be over.  Or a Senate run could be dependent on Trump's support in Florida, where Trump is more popular than he is.

I just think it was too early.  The Never Trump faction of the DeSantis camp has plenty of time to turn around and support Trump.  The insults Trump threw at DeSantis will be ten months old on election day, and I'm sure DeSantis will do what he can to convince his voters to vote for Trump.

Our only hope is that Nikki Haley can stay in the race long enough to convince enough Republicans to not stick with Trump.  She's attacking him on his mental decline, which is probably Trump's weakest point among his own base.  But she needs to stay in the race long enough to be attacking him long enough for people to hear her.  If she drops out after New Hampshire or South Carolina and endorses him, our last chance to have a Republican convince Republicans not to vote for Trump will be over.

629

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I do think there's a large segment of MAGA that is victims.  If all you do is watch Fox News, especially if you grew up a time when news was very respected, all you are going to hear is how bad things are.  And I think these people genuinely want good things for the country, and I think they genuinely think that they're facing a crisis that only Donald Trump can fix.  They've been convinced that the government is corrupt, and that Donald Trump (as an outsider) is the only one willing to step up to them.

I think this is both good and very bad.  Very bad, of course, because he's convinced a large swath of the nation that he's their messiah, and they're willing to disregard anything that steps in the way.  Good in the sense that, if Trump is the only one who can fix it, who's the heir to that?  What happens when Trump is gone?

My biggest fear post-2020 was a Trump-like figure who's more effective.  DeSantis seemed like that guy, but obviously he's not.  Because while Trump is good at getting his way, he's also very stupid and easily distracted.  He definitely wants to be a dictator, but he might run out of time before he gets to enjoy any of that.

So if Trump can be defeated until Trump is dead, I don't know if MAGA doesn't fracture.  Maybe a true heir apparent will show up, but I'm not currently seeing it.  That's why Trump is effective when he talks about staying as president or why "8 more years" was chanted.  There's no backup plan. There's no heir.  It's Trump until Trump is dead because that's all Trump cares about.  So when he dies, I don't know if there's going to be a succession plan.  And that means that some MAGA will follow DeSantis, some will follow Don Jr., some will follow Marjorie Taylor Greene, some will follow Jim Jordan.  And they won't be able to agree on anything, attacking each other and creating a bunch of never DeSantis, never Don Jr, never MTG, never Jordan, and never-whoever sects.

At least that's my hope.

*******************

I don't know what's happening with Trump (and I don't really want to speculate), but his flubs are getting worse and worse.  It might be in Biden's best interests to let Trump talk as much as possible.  I think the more non-MAGA people that hear Trump talk, the more people are going to realize that the dude is straight up crazy.  People will remember, and Biden should be able to cruise to a win (assuming he doesn't have his own flubs and the base gets in line).

630

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Actuarial data suggests that Trump will live into his 90s.  He has world class healthcare, and his father lived to be 93.  I would think, barring something unexpected happening, he would live another dozen plus years.

Now, the dude only eats McDonalds and never seems to do any actual activity other than golfing. But data as recent as 2023 suggests Trump isn't in any danger of dying of natural causes for a while, and I'm sure it took his diet and his actual weight (not the ridiculous number he declares) into account.

631

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

To bring it "back to Sliders," it's like if you had the choice, say a year or so ago when Torme had his pitch with NBC.  The choice is, and this site and other groups often held these polls.  Would you rather have the OG Tracy T go make that pitch, knowing that his politics were antiquated, and his resume is wrought with "being difficult," and that his stories might be too cerebral?  Meaning he has far less of a chance of getting the green light.  ORRRR would you rather a new group, led by an Alex Kurtzman type, with recent TV success, definitely more in line with Millennials, and thus a better chance of being selected?  Granted his show might be fine, you may love it, but it wouldn't be OG. 

The OG choice usually won in those polls, and guess what, in the end, sadly, his pitch was not green lit.  That's where the GOP is with Trump.  The polls continue to show him as the WEAKEST November candidate of their field, and he has so many red flags with his age, mental state, and the legal problems.  Why would you insist on the OG Gangsta??  You can say it's a cult, but in reality, Trump is his own nostalgia act at this point.  He's some iteration of Van Halen without Dave and possibly heading into Gary Cherone territory.  Am I dating myself?  The point is that MAGA = Trump, they can't give up on him now, or ever.  So why then are the non-MAGA still voting for this moron? 

That's the real question here.  Desantis and Haley are no moderates, they should be trouncing Trump, but the GOP in my opinion, is well beyond the norm now.  This leaves the sliver of reality that Biden is (dangerously) hanging on, that there will be enough Trump fearing voters, who actually bother to vote, to propel him.  The danger is that he's created plenty of people now afraid of continuing with him!

I think these are fair questions, but to me, I don't think reason is going to prevail.  When a candidate loses a presidential race, there's a reckoning.  The party goes back in the lab, re-evaluates things, and tries to come up with a plan on how to win the next time.  That didn't happen this time because Trump has convinced a large (and somehow GROWING) segment of Republicans that he won last time.  He's essentially running as an incumbent.

So when anti-Trump Republicans give reasons why Trump is a bad choice, there's always an argument why they're wrong.

Trump is facing criminal trials!  "Those trials are fake"
Trump is doing worse against Biden in polls!  "Polls are always wrong unless Trump is winning"
Trump isn't as electable as Haley or DeSantis! "Trump already beat Biden once and he'll do it again"

It doesn't matter what the argument is - they're ready with a response.  Trump can't not be electable if we won last time.  Trump's legal issues aren't real because the trials are fake.  Trump's age doesn't matter because Biden is older.

ireactions, we have some good signs:

1. Biden seems to be doing slightly better at polling recently, and we're making headways on the economy and the border.  They're going to have to be able to correctly spin it, but the conditions for a Biden re-election are getting better.

2. There is some infighting on the Republican side.  I've seen a number of high-profile DeSantis supporters outright say that they won't support Trump in the general.  Now they have tons of time to come around on that, but if there are enough "Bernie against Hillary in 2016" votes, that's totally enough to make the difference.  We need Democrats to fall in line and enough Republicans to stay home, leave the top of the ballot blank, or somehow vote for Biden.

3. There's still overwhelming polling evidence that moderate Republicans will abandon Trump if he's convicted of a crime.  We just have to get a trial that actually starts.

4. I'm still not convinced that Trumpism continues after Trump.  I think he has a unique ability to get through to people that others don't have.  His sons don't have it.  No other candidates have really shown to have it, and the Trumpy people that have been elected to office are people that are typically in very red situations.  I think the GOP, win or lose, is going to continue to push "America First" issues, but I think Trump is unique. When Kari Lake tried to push the same kind of "Stop the Steal" nonsense, no one listened to her.  It only worked for Trump.  Now does that mean Trumpism ends in 2024 if Biden wins?  No.  I firmly expect Trump to run for president in 2028 if he loses (or I guess if he wins).  I don't see any reason why he wouldn't run (even if he's in prison) or any reason why he wouldn't win.

That's of course assuming there is a 2028 or an election at all.  But this is a positive post so I'll leave that to the side.

632

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Republicans do both, though.  I would assume most of the people arrested on January 6 probably didn't love Donald Trump before 2015.  Now they're willing to go to jail for him?  To die for him?

The problem is that Republicans base everything on winning.  That's why they have no platform, and that's why they struggle to get anything done when they get in office.  They're so concerned with winning that they don't even know what to do when they get there.  If you have no platform, then the actual candidate is irrelevant.  You just vote for the person with the R by their name.  What do they stand for?  It doesn't matter.

633

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My beloved senator, Ted Cruz, has endorsed Trump.  What a spineless moron he is.  How can you wholeheartedly bootlick the man who called his wife ugly and accused his father of killing Kennedy?  I don't know too many people who have been attacked as hard as Cruz has, and I'm not sure there's anyone on the planet that defends Trump harder.

I know it's a longshot, but I'll be volunteering for and paying into the campaign for Colin Allred.

634

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

So Donald Trump could ONLY muster half of that percentage?  That's not a good sign.

A lot of people are saying this, but I assume *most* of those people that voted for any of the other candidates will coalesce behind Trump.  Not all because some of them are already saying that they'd vote for Biden if Haley doesn't win, but those people might've already said in polls that they'd vote for Biden over Trump.  I don't know if it's fair to say that Trump only has half the Iowa vote because someone would rather vote for DeSantis or Haley or Ramaswamy.  It matters if they'd rather vote for Trump or Biden.

But it does show that a large swath of people are looking for an alternative.  I'm hoping that Haley can win in New Hampshire, perhaps with a large percentage of the Christie vote.  And maybe if Trump can be shown to bleed, he can be beaten.  I just don't know.

635

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Very well written, ireactions.  I don't really have any response to that, but it was helpful to read.  I'm always fascinated by the people who are choosing to support Trump and why they do it.  It is so entirely foreign to me to follow him, and I've been trying to get into that mindset to I can understand it.  From what I can tell, it's most just fear fueled by misinformation.  Trump is most effective with older and undereducated people that are more likely to fall for misinformation.  So if he says that gas is $8 a gallon or that 8 million terrorists are coming into the country a day, they believe it.  And he's convinced them that anything else anyone says is a lie.  Again, I don't know how to fight that when people don't believe what they see anymore.

*******

Good news / bad news.

Good news - Something like 30% of Haley supporters in Iowa said they will support Biden in a hypothetical Biden/Trump matchup.  Something like 30% of all Iowans (including Trump supporters) have said that Trump is not fit to be president if he's convicted of a crime.

Bad news - None of that seems to be showing up in polling.  Biden has pulled closer in certain polls, but he's still trailing in a lot of the important ones.  Yes, it's early.  Yes, polls don't vote.  But I would feel much better if the 1/3 of Haley voters that claim they'll vote for Biden are showing up.  I know it's 1/3 of 20% or whatever, but that should move the needle.  And it hasn't yet.

Good news - I read a really interesting article yesterday called "You should go to a Trump rally" (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/ar … on/677119/).  You should read it yourself, but the TLDR is that Trump supporters that go to Trump rallys seem turned off / annoyed by actually listening to what Trump has to say.  That he rambles or goes off on too many tangents or whatever.  This tells me that as the campaign ramps up and people start paying attention, people are going to remember why they didn't vote for him in 2020.  Biden is front and center to most people, even people that aren't paying attention, and his flaws are front of mind.  Trump's aren't, especially if (as the Biden campaign maintains) that most 2024 voters think about politics 4 minutes a week.

Bad news - Trump demolished the competition in Iowa.  Instead of a dirty and competitive campaign that might lead DeSantis/Haley voters to abandon Trump (sort of what happened with Bernie voters against Hillary in 2016), it seems like the campaign might not last long enough for that to happen.  Trump might win all 50 states.  Even worse, even people that Trump has attacked (Reynolds in Iowa, Sonunu in New Hampshire) are already pledging to support him in the general.  I was hoping there would be less coalescing around Trump, but that doesn't seem like it's going to happen.

Good news - Recent polling has shown that people are feeling better about the economy, which should be huge for Biden if those trends continue.

Bad news - Republicans are refusing to negotiate on their own fixes for the border.  Biden is either going to have to completely cave, or he's going to have to somehow flip the issue around on the Republicans.  Which he should be able to do, but it will be hard to convince Republicans / Republican-leaning people that Republicans don't want to fix it.

Overall...I feel okay about things.  I hope Trump's trials go to trial before the election, and I wish the polls would start showing a better race for Biden.  But maybe that will just happen in time.

The problem with an older group of Sliders is that Quinn's actions would be so much more reckless.  Even if Arturo, Wade, and/or Rembrandt were all willing to come along, Rembrandt and Arturo are senior citizens.  It's one thing to have one older gentleman, but Rembrandt was in his prime.  Wade was young and adventurous.

I worry about versions of Arturo, Wade, and Rembrandt that would have any interest in sliding.  Maybe Arturo is in for "one last adventure" which might imply that he's ready to die.  Same, maybe, with Rembrandt.  Wade is either still single in her 50s and still pining for Quinn, or maybe she's divorced/widowed allowing for another chance with him.

In any case, these are retirement age (or close) adults who are choosing to leave their lives behind (or, worse, getting torn away from lives they don't want to leave behind.

Sure, you can make the story whatever you want, and it doesn't have to be sad.  Plenty of people are hungry for adventure later in life, and plenty of people are happy with lives where they can start over at the drop of a hat.  You could easily write that.

But, I don't know, I think I'd rather all/most of the sliders be home and happy in retirement, ready to leave sliding behind.

Grizzlor wrote:

Hey, can we move the "Future of Sliders" chatter to the other thread?  Just to make it easier for people to find stuff in here. [Moderator Message: Request granted, posts were relocated here: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 225#p15225 ]

This was a good call.

I absolutely respect that too.  And, honestly, we probably need more shows willing to cast older actors and treat them like they treat younger actors.  And I think a cerebral Sliders sequel series that would accommodate older actors could be great.  Like Tracy said in the DragonCon panel about a possible Season 4 budget slash...it could make for a more interesting story if you're bound by something out of your control.

At the same time, I don't want a reality where the core four have been sliding for 30 years.  I don't want a nearly-80-year-old professor Arturo getting thrown out of a vortex.  It just feels sad.  That's why any story I consider these guys are home and happy and retired.  Leave the sliding to the kids.

Yeah, I think the percentage of people that would've watched a continuation only if it had the original cast is so small at this point.  It might just be us.

Make it a rebootquel or whatever and tie it into the original continuity if you want, but younger people aren't going to watch a show about a bunch of people in their 60s.  And in regard to the original continuity, I think you need to essentially throw out Seasons 3-5.  I can't imagine a new audience wants to watch the show jump through hoops to get the original sliders back from where Season 5 left off.  And if you aren't using the original sliders, the point of using the original actors diminishes too.

640

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

For all Liz Cheney's faults, I really respect her for torpedoing her own career to do the right thing.  She was essentially one of the congresspeople who voted alongside Trump at one of the highest rates, but she signals a time when we could disagree with someone politically but still respect for them.  Even root for them.

https://www.mediaite.com/news/liz-chene … stitution/

I saw this conversation (this was simply the first link I saw and I didn't read the whole thing so I'm just posting it for the video and context), but this is what Biden needs to drive home.  I think this is a winning argument for Republicans that aren't MAGA.  The people who would "hold their nose" and vote for Trump.  And as we discussed before, there are millions of people like this.

We Can Survive Bad Policies But Not Torching the Constitution

This should be the message.  Biden should, at times (obviously not all the time), directly talk to center-right people and say "Listen, I know you might disagree with me on A, B, or C.  And I hope you vote downballot for reasonable conservatives to try and defeat me on those issues.  But if you vote for Trump, you won't win.  The constitution won't win.  Only Trump will win.  And then I'll wish you good luck in 2028."  We need to convince people (and I know lots of people like this) that they might like Trump's policies more, but there's too much risk involved to do that.  Essentially, "you can survive four more years of Biden."

And literally that's all it would take.  Take some percentage of reluctant Trump voters and a) get them to stay home b) get them to vote third party c) get them to leave the top of the ballot entirely or d) get them to become a reluctant Biden voter.  Especially in toss-up states.  Do that enough and get your base to show up, and Biden wins it easily.

I don't know if Cheney herself has enough sway to make that happen, but if she does, I'd get her on as a part of the campaign in some capacity.  And I'd promise her some sort of role in a Biden administration (I assume small) if she wants it.

And, of course, Biden is also going to need to deliver for reluctant Trump voters.  As I've said a bunch, he's going to have to do something to make them feel better about the economy, the border, and social issues.  I don't know what that would be, but I think that's Biden's best avenue to victory.

So I would love for a reboot/continuation to happen at some point.  Like I said, I think a lot of people liked Sliders when it aired (although a lot of people obviously didn't watch it), and I think in the overall cultural zeitgeist of a certain age (obviously a lot of people under 30 wouldn't have even heard of it) is positive.  Like Quantum Leap (but less so since Sliders hasn't done much in syndication), I think if it was done well, it could be successful.  And obviously the lower the stakes (Peacock original?  Lower budget?), the better the chance of it succeeding.

The problem with a continuation is the ages.  1) it would be harder for older castmembers to do the type of stuntwork that we'd want from a show similar to seasons 1-2.  Not impossible but harder.  2) It would be harder to market the show to younger audiences if the characters are all very old.  Like look at this:

Current ages of the original sliders:
Jerry O'Connell - 49
Cleavant Derricks - 70
Sabrina Lloyd - 53? (Her age isn't on wikipedia, but IMDB lists her birthday as 11/20/70)
John Rhys-Davies - 79
Average Age - 62.75

Ages of the Golden Girls cast at the time the show premiered:
Rue McClanahan - 51
Betty White - 63
Bea Arthur - 63
Estelle Getty - 62
Average age - 59.75

Golden Girls was a show about retired old people, and their cast was younger than the Sliders cast is right now.  I'm not saying they couldn't and I would love to see it, but it would be a much different show.  I assume much more cerebral and much less action.  Which could be great and help with the costs.

I still think the best avenue and most logical one is a show about Jerry O'Connell with a bunch of younger characters.  The way I've always envisioned it (and the way I started writing a Earth 214 sequel series*) was with Quinn as the mentor figure in the Arturo role.  Quinn could either be our original Quinn looking for the original Sliders or something else.  One idea I liked would be a Quinn who gave up on sliding (maybe a version of Smarter Quinn never helped him), settled down, maybe went into teaching, and then a brainy kid like him finally cracks the code.  Something like that could be a good way to involve the original cast without making it about them.  Arturo could be the dean of the college or someone still mentoring Quinn in retirement.  Wade could be his wife (or ex-wife) that Quinn has to leave behind when he goes sliding.  Rembrandt could be harder to rope in, but maybe he teaches music at the same college or something?  Could also just be a fun cameo (maybe he's performing at the school in some weird concert that the young kids don't get, or maybe it's some sort of nostalgia thing that Rembrandt is taking advantage of).

I think there's a lot of ways to do it.  Jerry's the youngest and most active and most well known of the cast, and he's basically the exact age that JRD was when the show started.  I think it makes the most sense.

* Not that anyone cares, but I still think this is a good idea and I'm never going to write this.  My E214 sequel would've had my Quinn-1 (the original Quinn that rescues the original Sliders) taking a group of young scientists around the multiverse.  The show would've started out fairly standard with standard adventures - the timer wouldn't be damaged, and they'd basically have full-time communication with their home base on their home Earth through some sort of "satellites in the vortex sci-fi nonsense."  The twist would've been that on one of their adventures, one of the scientists gets injured and ends up in a coma in a hospital.  With no other choice, they break into the hospital to rescue their friend and take him back to their home Earth.  I can't remember if I did a time skip or waited an episode or two, but eventually the scientists would wake up from his coma...and it's not him.  It's a double that happened to be in the same hospital with a similar injury.

So they try to take him back to his world, but his world is completely off the map.  It's gone.  Its either been destroyed, wiped out of existence somehow, or is being blocked by something.  They can't access it.  Not only that, but the double of their friend that they have is nonverbal (I'm sure I would've written him as nonverbal autistic at the time but I don't know if that would've been an insensitive move considering my education level on the subject)  *and* can create wormholes organically (this part is lifted from a TF story, I believe).  So instead of finding a way back home, the plot would essentially be about finding a lost person.  I thought it was a pretty fun spin on things.  If anyone writing a Peacock spinoff wants to use it smile

Oh I'm not bashing Jerry by any means.  He's free to feel and think whatever he wants.  Even if he was making it about himself, I think that's still Jerry's brand.  I just wanted to see what anyone else read into it.

643

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Biden had a brutal poll come out where he was losing to Trump by almost ten points in Michigan.  I know it's early and it's one poll, but I'm hoping they're taking this election as seriously as they say they are.  It's been almost entirely one sided as far as campaigning goes, but Michigan is a state Biden needs to win.

Grizzlor wrote:

Jerry O'Connell tweet

https://twitter.com/MrJerryOC/status/17 … w&s=19

Tracy Tormé was the smartest dude I had ever met, when he cast me in SLIDERS.  Rest In Peace Genius.

I can't tell if this is Jerry high fiving himself or not.  Is he saying that Tracy was the smartest dude he'd ever met at the time he cast him?  Or that he was the smarted dude he'd ever met *because* he cast him?

Either way, I know Jerry's sense of humor can be a bit wacky.  It might be a little of both?

Damn.  Rest in peace, Mr. Torme.  Thank you for sharing your art with us.  Thank you for sharing your mind with us.  You've inspired a lot of us to write, even if our writing paled in comparison to your own.

Even though Sliders was, at the end of it all, a giant mess, I still hear it brought up a lot.  Not just with nerdy folks like us but with normal people.  No one ever seems to remember seasons 3-5...it's always just how cool the premise was and not being quite sure what happened to it.

I don't know much about his personal life and haven't done too much digging into it.  But he created Sliders, and that says enough about him in my eyes.

646

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

QuinnSlidr wrote:

I don't think it is a weak case in New York at all. It is a fact that Trump overvalued his real estate properties. He even admitted it. He deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Oh, I'm sorry, I meant the Stormy Daniels criminal case in New York. The only reason I say allegedly weak is that a lot of the law analysis I looked at at the time said that it's almost always a civil case.  And that a lot of them didn't know how New York was going to twist itself to make it criminal.  I think of the four criminal indictments, it has the least chance of succeeding.

But I'm not a lawyer so please feel free to disregard that opinion.  Maybe it's the strongest, I legitimately don't know.  But I feel like it's the only one that's for sure to happen in 2024.

647

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah I haven't seen anything that would indicate that Trump stands any chance of winning this argument.  And he's lying about having to be there - he's choosing to be there.  And then there's the question of whether or not the Supreme Court would take it up.  They denied Jack Smith's request to jump straight there (which would've bypassed today's proceedings), but it's unknown if they denied it because a) precedent - they don't often skip a step in the process, b) to help Trump, which seems unlikely because no one dissented the decision...if it was political, someone would've, or c) they aren't planning on listening either way.  I think C is the best route (and maybe a likely route) because the appellate judgment would be final and maybe we could still hit a March trial date.

I just want at least one of the Jack Smith trials (Florida or DC) to go to trial before the election.  I know New York will but that's such a weak case (allegedly) and we know Georgia won't go to trial before.

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(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

For the record, this is the only place (on Earth?) that I can have a civil political discourse, and I would hope that this remains that.  Now that Informant is gone we don't really have any true right-wing voice here (TF is the closest?), Grizzlor is at least able to discuss things from a "Biden better be careful" perspective, and I think that's important that we don't lean too far either way.  That's no fun.

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(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

[Look, I do NOT want Trump to win, but it's increasingly possible due to the disastrous candidacy of Joe Biden.  His atrocious polling cannot be simply ignored as though it's the media or right wing made up crap.  2016 was the same story.  The liberals laughed at the notion, and then cried, because they chose to focus on social issues that the country didn't care about or were sick of hearing of.  It's still the economy, stupid.

To be fair here, I do think the Biden campaign is doing a better job of handling this than the Clinton campaign did.  I don't think Biden is a perfect candidate by any means, and I genuinely wish there was a better candidate.  But there isn't.  Any replacement is almost certainly worse (Harris), extremely flawed for the current times (Buttigieg), or simply too unknown to hop in this late in the game (Whitmer, Newsom, or my personal favorite, Warnock).  The Democrats needed a wide-ranging campaign to get a sub-70-year-old candidate ready for 2024, and they didn't pull it off.  Like it or not, Biden is the guy.

But the economy is doing much better.  The stock market is up.  GDP is up.  Gas prices are down.  Inflation is falling.  There will be a large swath of the country that isn't going to give Biden credit for any of this, but assuming there isn't a reversal of any of this in the next ten months, the economy should be much better by November and people will have over a year of a strong economy in their memory banks.  Now the Biden campaign is going to need to hammer this in the next ten months (and not just on social media like they are), but if it comes down to the economy, Biden is going to be in a good spot.

And I agree this election cannot be about social issues.  Biden needs to downplay essentially all of those.  And even though it's a big issue for me, I think he's going to need to downplay stuff like climate change.  Biden would obviously be much better than Trump on climate, but I don't think that needs to be the center of any debate.  Like I've said a bunch of times, Biden needs to move to the right on as many issues as he can to reach the largest amount of people he can, and he needs to trust that people on the left will vote for him anyway.

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(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Edit: I see Grizzlor already made a lot of these points, but I'll leave mine up.

QuinnSlidr wrote:

~71,000,000 votes for Trump (Hitler) is not half the country. Let's stop spreading nonsense, please.

Population of the United States: 331.9 million (2021)
Half that: 165,950,000

So, 71,000,000ish (who voted Trump, a.k.a. Hitler) is around 21% of the country.

Not half. lol lol lol lol lol

Outlandish lies.

You seem to be taking that academic psychological assessment a bit personally, Grizzlor.

I stand by it.

To be fair, the 331.9 million includes a lot of people who are not eligible to vote.  Children, for example, would make up a large percentage of those people, and I would assume the children of Trump voters would vote for Trump.

In 2020, about 239.2 million people are eligible to vote, and of that population, 159.7 million did.  Of that number, 74.2 million voted for Trump.  So it's 46% of the eligible population and 31% of the eligible population.  I assume half was simply talking about the people that voted, and I think it's somewhat safe to say that people that didn't vote would break out somewhat similarly if they were forced to vote.

There should absolutely be a separation between Trump voters and MAGA because I think that's significant.  I don't think 74.2 million people are fanatical about Trump - they voted for him because they felt like they had to (for whatever reason) or felt like Trump was the lesser of two evils.  MAGA will vote for Trump no matter what, but I think the remaining percentage of 2020 Trump voters can be reached and reasoned with.  A recent poll had a large number of Republicans that stated that they would no longer support Trump if he was convicted of a crime.  That number wasn't *nearly* as large as it should've been, but it was enough to make the election impossible to win for Trump (assuming the voters weren't all in, say, California).

I don't think it's unreasonable to say that half the country supports Trump.  Not all of them voted for him, and not all of them are nearly educated enough about Trump to actually defend anything other than a vibe of what 2018 was like.  But I think if you did a formal poll of who supports Trump vs who doesn't, I think that number would be much higher than any of us would like.

I also wanted to state, simply as my personal opinion, that you both are being a little hard on Grizzlor.

651

(330 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah, I assume so too.  But if they're in disarray, that means it failed again.  Which would be frustrating.  I'd like a time period where the good guys are able to do something without it immediately falling apart.

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(330 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

"The Jedi are in disarray"

I'm curious what this even means.  In the Rise of Skywalker, there are no Jedi.  So does that mean the Jedi were rebuilt and then went into disarray?  Or are they just still in disarray from Revenge of the Sith?

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(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah Gunn is doing it the right way, and Marvel couldn't have anticipated something like this at the time.  As I said in the other thread, I don't really fault What If.  It'll just be fun to have that level of continuity in the DCU.

654

(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Interesting updates from the border debate.  Republicans in the House have a partisan bill they've passed and sent to the Senate.  The Senate has a bipartisan compromise bill that they're working on.

Republicans came out and said that they're not willing to accept any compromise, actually stating out loud that they're not willing to give Biden any wins. And the White House has started openly saying that Republicans are blocking legislation and funds that are supposed to help the situation at the border.  In other words, Republicans are complaining about the border and actively working to stop the problem from being fixed.

They need to do this. And a lot more of it.  If they can spin this properly to the right people, this could be good.  Republicans are creating a problem and then complaining about it.  With the right spin, it could get him voters back.

The Israel stuff is more difficult.  There's a decent chance that foreign actors (Putin?) are trying to make sure there's a war in Ukraine and Israel through the election, and Biden is getting hit from both sides.  He's siding almost exclusively with Israel, but people are saying he's not doing enough (again, Republicans are blocking help), but he's getting killed from his left flank by supporting Israel at all.

It's hard to fathom that Muslims are so mad about this situation that they'll allow Trump to win (or actually vote for him!), but it seems like that's where we're at right now.  I did a little bit of research, and what Muslim leaders are saying is that Trump is at least honest about being anti-Islamic.  That Biden pretends to be a friends to Muslims and is now stabbing them in the back.

I think a big part of people's lack of fear of Trump is that they survived four years of him, and I think the expectations are that the second term will be like the first.  My fear is that a lot of the guardrails (being either people in Trump's administration that moderated him or legislation/policies/norms that prevented some of his more extreme actions being done being eroded).  People think Trump will mean another Muslim ban, and they can survive another one of those.  What it could mean is a mass Muslim deportation.

When Biden tried to talk about Trump's openly anti-Muslim rhetoric and Biden's work in the Muslim community, he got attacked by Muslim leaders.  It's a real problem, and I don't know how he navigates it if the war in Israel continues.

He's in a similar situation with voters of color.  Black voters know that Trump is racist, but the argument I'm seeing is "Yeah, Trump is racist but pretty much every president has been racist but at least the economy was good under Trump."  Latino voters are saying "yeah, Trump is anti-immigrant, but I'm an American and we have to fix the border."  Young voters are saying "Biden promised to get rid of my student debt and failed me.  It can't be any worse under Trump."

I think Biden and his team need to be very clear that Term Two won't be the same as Term One.  People need to understand that they can be mad at Biden about X, Y, or Z, but that it will be so much worse under Trump.

Most importantly, Biden needs to listen to these voters and enact actual programs that help these people.  That's the only way they'll forgive him, I think.  He has lots of time, but he needs to be moving right now.

655

(724 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Watched Rebel Moon.  I don't think I'm a Snyder guy.  Most of his movies are fine on a first watch but I'm never all that interested in rewatching them.  I didn't think the Snyder Cut was all that much better than Whedon's version, especially when you take into account that Snyder would've had to edit the movie at some point.  Snyder had three movies that he claimed were building to an epic story, but we never ended up getting there.  It reminds me of the Flash's final season, when the producers claimed that they had these big stories they were going to do if they'd been given more episodes.  Snyder had three movies and just needed a couple more to tell the good one.

Rebel Moon certainly feels like a part one.  It doesn't feel like a complete movie.  It's got everything you love from Snyder (slow motion, bleakness, characters who have given up), but at least it's only a few minutes over two hours.

I hope Snyder's fans love it.  He seems like a genuinely good person, and I'm glad that Snyder fans have something that they really enjoy.  It just doesn't seem like his stuff is for me.

656

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Watching Marvel's WHAT IF? with the full motion animation, lush and dense environments, smooth camerawork, hyperkinetic editing, compelling shot composition, immersive soundscape, high energy voice acting -- and I have to wonder, why exactly are those DC Universe Original Animated movies still being made? They look stiff and immobile compared to WHAT IF?

I'm pretty sure the new DCU is ending the unrelated animated movies (at least the constant stream of them).  And unlike What If...?*, future DCU animated films will be entirely voice-acted by the original live action voices.

* Just needed to mention that smile

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(954 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think the voice acting is great.  Downey and Johansson have very distinct voices, and I'm sure a talented voice actor would have no issue doing a seamless impression.  I feel like the actor that replaced Chris Evans didn't nail it as much, but Evans doesn't have as distinct a voice.  I'm not sure you can do an "impression" of Evans, and it might sound silly if someone tried.  I assume the creative team picked the best voice for Steve and just had him use his normal voice.

Again, I don't mean to insult Wingert or Bell.  Nothing about the voice work was distracting or bad.  It's almost more distracting when it's a fake Chris Evans talking to a real Chris Hemsworth.  Then I spend time wondering if that's really Jon Favreau (and it is...he just sounds off even when he's playing normal Happy Hogan).

I think the production did the best possible job.  They got as many of the real actors as possible and filled in the rest the best they could.  I still just think it's a little weird that they get some people and don't get others.  I get Chris Evans not wanting to ruin the legacy of his Captain America with a cheap return or Downey not wanting to get paid minimum wage after he's made a fortune off his Iron Man.  But I have to assume a lot of these guys did recordings at home, and they're all playing alternate versions of their characters.  Maybe it's just the principle of not coming back.

*******

I watched all of What If...? Season 2, and overall it was really good.  I feel like maybe they played way too hard into the Captain Carter thing?  She's a fun character, and I'm glad she's getting some spotlight after she sorta got shortchanged in live action.  But she's the star of 1/3 of the episodes, and almost every line of dialogue from Uatu is about how great she is.  It's just a little odd that it's a show about endless possibilities and we keep returning to the same character over and over again.

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(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

Haley won't be offered.  Trump 2024 is not going to compromise on anything.  He will choose a sycophant like Kari Lake.  Has to be someone who will spew the same bile lies as him.  His attitude now is Biden is so bad, all Trump needs is MAGA to be revved up and he'll win.

See, as an anti-Trump guy, I think Lake would be a good pick for him.  She's going to be loud and irritating and turn people off like she did in the Arizona governor's race.  She doesn't get him suburban women or college educated whites. 

Would it still be enough?  Maybe.  But it wouldn't gain him any votes, and most "Trump-like" people that aren't Trump end up turning off even more Republicans. 

His best bet is to pick someone who would appeal to Republicans that don't like Trump.  But I agree that he'll probably pick someone who has been loyal in the past.

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(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

She's said she would turn it down.  She may underestimate Trump's insanity and think that being Trump's VP makes you the nominee by default in 2028 as long as she doesn't make him mad.  Obviously that didn't work out for Pence, but a) Trump is still running and b) Haley may think she's smarter/better than Pence.

But I think Trump is just as likely to a) try to stay in power for a third term b) name one of his kids as the next nominee or c) pick someone absolutely random.

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(3,573 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

Haley was Governor of South Carolina.  She did succeed in removing the Confederate flag from state property.  She's surely had to answer this question 500 times, and yet sounded like an idiot.  Regardless, her answer is about as relevant in this election as John Schneider, zilch.  Donald Trump will be the GOP nominee.

It isn't zero.  If Trump is smart (and we know he isn't), then Haley should be his VP candidate.  She'd go a long way to repairing his image with Republican women and people in the suburbs.  She polls extremely well with those groups, and I think people could be convinced (especially people that don't really like Biden except as an alternative to Trump) that she could be the adult in the room.  Or that she'd take over when his criminal trials end.  Or that she'd take over when Trump is impeached, etc.

If it's Trump-Haley, I'm very worried.  If Haley is damaged goods (either with the people that help or the people that would pick her), then obviously that won't happen.  Anti-Trump people are better off with Trump going with a loyalist like MTG.