Search options (Page 12 of 24)

One thing to also remember is how different Goodfellas looked for you vs. me.  I had what seemed to be a lot of pixelation (compression artififacts?).  I know it's S2, and you're talking about S1 above but the image looked terrible.  That said, I mostly found S2 episodes better on turbine than universal.

It's interesting that you mention that. I've always thought seasons 3-5 look good on dvd, 4-5 really respectable for sd.

S1&2 hasn't held up for me but the initial reviews were pretty positive. 

As far as I understand though universal was still doing 500mb per episode, correct?   Outside the pilot.

More essays from Annie Fish, who is writing a SLIDERS book!

https://www.patreon.com/posts/58482053

hahaha

sorry medium didn't work out!

https://twitter.com/SlidersFanBlog/stat … 8743692298

hmm. I am comparing it with Into the Mystic and not noticing a difference?

Well you get all the credit here, I was just asking some questions along the way. 

About 15 years ago, I broke an older laptop whose fan was dead because I kept watching video on it for a sustained period of time and it got to hot..

I can't recall where I heard the two week thing, but I don't misremember those sorts of things.  Maybe it was in the Sliders EPK, if not the dvd commentary, maybe it was in an article.  I remember being quite surprised.  I think the result turned out amazing though.  Especially the side shot of the vortex.

Good breakdown... helps me know what I was seeing. I think it's pretty easy to tell when it's Clinton.  Actually, now that I think back about it, I have noticed how well Cleavant plays the agent more straightforward than his remmy character to the point it's like two different people.

It sounds like a mixed bag, but also it does seem like some fans are happy to have that release. But it emphasizes my larger point -- I would be quite concerned about any party doing an upres or restoration without input from a party who is really going to try to help in quality assurance. These entities don't have the time to compare different settings for different things, they don't know the content, etc. They want to do a batch job.  They dont have the man power or time to sit through and rewatch everything.

I've mentioned in the other thread about my desire for Tracy to oversee a restoration process if the peacock gig doesnt happen and they could do a sliders special or roundtable alongside it.  Or something.  I was just saying that because I want someone on the inside who'd actually give a crap the way things looked.

The best way to really do it is get a scan on the 35mm from the studio and then handle the rest outside of that.  The post production.  That said, studios are big on not allowing anyone to change their content. I am not sure what deal VEI, had, and it's MGM that owns stargate i think but generally, i think even doing an upres isn't necessarily allowed for like a tv broadcast, but then again we suspected that may have been done by The Hub, so I don't know.

Point being studios tend to not want content altered.  Anyway, I think it's highly unlikely a scan of the original s1 film reels can happen, but i do think there's a course to make it happen.  It would just be hard to make happen.  But, you look at The Prisoner on streaming now, and it's like wow.  Why can't we have that? It'd be incredible to see Sliders the way it was meant to be... although I doubt it would have the color vibrance of The Prisoner. Not even Back to the Future seems to have that.

I've actually thought a little about this myself, if Topaz AI hits his limits, is upconverting with their photo software each frame a way to get even better quality.

The issue might be that the video AI may do something that's either entirely the same and breaks down all the frames and makes it a batch photoconversion job, or they have made some trade offs for processing time to get a 1 hour piece of content done.  I'm not sure how realistic speed wise it would be.  And you noted possible storage drive issues.

I'm also just not sure there algorithm is any different for photos vs. video.  I have used some AI photo things in the past on the web, and I have been trying to find them the past couple of weeks, but I can't find what i used. I wanted to try on a frame of sliders to see the results.  I suspect it may still have a hard time with the underlying content from s1.  But it would nice to be surprised.  In anycase, whenever I google, I can't find the ones I tried in the past (which were great back then). 

Maybe they were taken offline because they couldn't handle the cost of doing free photo demos for people.

here's an old one I did:

BEFORE

AFTER

Open each photo in a new tab and flip between tabs to compare.  There was a fair amount of grain in the original shot, of course.

It took two-weeks to do that Pilot scene shot so I suspect they had Clinton play Remmy2 for speed/production cost purposes...

Really about Greatfellas?  Because I always felt I could tell the difference between the two actors...

In the pilot, even with the body double, there are scenes where both jerrys are in the same shot, and i think in the pilot commentary they explained how they did that.  Didn't they just superimpose the film negative over each other in that one?

Even though s1 non-pilot doesn't get the holy grail out of this process, it clearly is a cleaner image, and more HD ready.

They could do that... and I wish they would.  The issue becomes if they feel comfortable labeling a blu-ray as a blu-ray if it's all upscaled content.  How much precedence is there for that?  How do they handle.

I would love for Turbine or someone else to release an upscale. Or universal to do it.  That said, 65 hrs of upscaling is still somewhat expensive I think.  I mean off 88 episodes. 

So you got consumers who mostly don't want to pay north of 40 bucks for something.  Not many are willing to spend 150 bucks plus.  And yet the expense of upscaling everything... because machine time.

I don't really know how much it would cost, or if consumers would accept it as a blu-ray, or if they'd complain and you get bad reviews.  I would very much like to see a GOOD upscale job.  I think your samples for s2-5 people would consider mostly viable as 1080, especially because it is just so much better than anything we've had before, and s1 is still better as well, and the pilot is gorgeous.  But if someone does a shitty job, because they are lazy (that will be most production houses/distributors) than it's harder to market as a blu-ray.  I guarantee you would have done a better job on Stargate or some true fan of the content, because of LOVE.

I honestly never would trust universal with an AI upscale job or anyone else that we couldn't have direct contact with.  They would choose one standard setting, and push start. And that's it. Someone like Turbine would probably listen and be less lazy about it.

I don't have knowledge on that as well, but I assume they are mapping/scanning some celebs face, and then map the models face as well, and super impose.  I think there are cell phone apps that do this as well.  I will see what I can find, if there's any programs built for it.

I guess the Clinton's face bothers you but I kinda like it knowing it's another real human being in the same room rather than taking the same actor and splitting the image.  Although they did a great job in the pilot and world killer with Jerry on that.

I'd be willing to log the special effects shot for the stakeholders just as a proof that the series, while sci-fi, is not special effects dominant, and may not be an inhibitor.  I'd be willing to do whatever labor to cut down on there's.  I bet you would too.

I'm really interested like you where the up-res tech goes.  Has it platuted?  Or can it keep going further?  And is there any incentive for them to work on training models for visuals as fuzzy as the source content (s1) we are talking about? Or is it too niche for them to even try to address that use case?

I think trying to smartly add texture/grain back into the image, and then building off that gain might be a solution, but you also really have to figure out how to sharpen images/boundries without pixelating/jagging content.  You have to figure out how to condense blurred boundries and not sharpen areas that don't need the work.

I think it will be awful hard for anything to intelligently build/reconstruct the s1 objects/forms as they should be.  They may make some gains in wider shots, not bluring on people in the distance etc.

I've certainly dreamed of deep fake technology being able to make old characters have "new" content again... maybe in 25 years we'll be able to work with realistic character models of the sliders group and put them against backgrounds, and pull from an audio library of their words to insert sound.  

Here's the thing about Season 1:

Peacock would probably see a 2x lift in viewing numbers if they had S1 in HD.  Now how much add dollars does that translate for them?  I suspect it's not all that much.  I don't recall how many commercial minutes peacock inserts but they make about 10 dollars for every 30 second ad per 1000 views.  Let's say they get 25k streams of an episode at this point.  If they have 6 minutes of commercials, that's 12 ads, which is 12 cents per stream in revenue.  So that's $3k in revenue for that episode with 25k views.

If you double that stream total, it's another $3k in revenue.  Across 8-9 episodes, you are basically talking about a total additional $24-27k in revenue as an estimate for HD content, assuming S1 is HD.  It would have a halo effect on the other seasons viewing, so you can bump that to $35k.

I'm making assumptions of course, but it gives a general picture.

Now, $35k in increased revenue, may be $100k over a ten year span (sliders on peacock has only been on two years).

Then when you add you add $60-150k off a blu-ray profit, and increased sales on VOD, it sort of all adds up to some small justification for HDing a S1.  But barely, and not very clearly, and also, companies want to go after big opportunities, not small ones like this.  An upres is ballpark $~100k cost.

And it's tough because Universal's licensing group acts like its own company from peacock, and a peacock is seperate from a third-party blu-ray company.   So the benefit to take on the entire HD cost may not be clear for one individual party, but adds up for everyone collectively.

I was poking around and I noticed Stargate did a blu-ray release, and actually just up-resed some of the older content without re-scanning.  Some of the issues with the waxy look and lack of grain were there, but it's clearly better than the dvd.

I also noticed that company I linked to with iConform technology (to scan the negative and then automatically edit it together from a reference source) used the tech on a recent Baywatch Season 1 release.  They've also done jobs on the star trek and x-files blu-ray releases.

If Sliders really isn't that special effects heavy, at least for s1 non pilot, you almost wonder if it wouldn't be that much more work than what they did on Baywatch.  Grab some time codes for the vortex or the killer bees and insert upconversions on the special effects shots.  X-Files actually did this in some of their stuff.

Aside from the pilot episode, out of curiosity, what percentage of shots in s1 would you say have special effects in them?  I have a guess in my head but don't want to influence your answer.

Yea there as some abusive buyers from what I understand but it's probably a one percent or less incidence rate.

I once got screwed by a merchant as a buyer.  I never took it up with eBay support.  Waited too long.  I thought he'd act like a reasonable person but it's incredible the things people are willing to justify themselves.  I am sure that happens with buyers too who decide they don't want something.

Who knows, maybe at some point we can ask Turbine to do an SD on Blu-Ray for the North American market, where they can get their hands on those NTSC masters.  And quite honestly, if they ever did, with some of the knowledge you've picked up here, if they were willing to try to upconvert the stuff to 1080, it might help.

I'm not sure though the demand is great enough for a Sliders blu-ray on SD for the north american market. It would have to look really really good to attract hard-core fans to re-buy.

One thing I really do love though about the blu-rays though is how many episodes they can fit on disc.  It's a lot more user-friendly than other home releases.  I wish they had a "play all" button though.

Out of curiousity, does the LQ setting work best for non-pilot S1 episodes on close-up shots, and the problems it introduces only come when the camera is more zoomed out and there's less fidelity in the image to work with?  You may have already addressed that here, but I dont recall.

Yea, I was saying it would be nice if there was an AI tool that formed grain around objects rather than flatly across the image.  The link I pointed to I thought may have done that (for photos) but I could be wrong.

I think the first couple of seasons were tough for tracy but season 3 and dealing with peckinpah is what was really something that was hard and was the lasting taste he had.

Tracy is indeed very fan friendly... just today he did another episode of "The Prisoner" rewatch with a podcaster on youtube who is a sliders fan.

I also noticed how he said he'd never do a woke version of Sliders or something cookie cutter to chase where hollywood is going.  I don't think he's at a stage in his life where he's driven by money, and I think moreso just interesting things.

He does have a fully written pilot he did for the pitch so maybe if there's not a go, he'll find a way to get it to a sliders fan site, as he's shared some of his other concepts in the past.

I say it for a few reasons but if you've heard him go into details either peckinpaugh stuff, that was really hard for him.  Tracy isn't a type A personality like a lot of showrunners, at least back then, could be. In other words he has less asshole in him, and it didn't always do well with power accumulation or jockeying in those environments.

I think the experience was frustrating for him but once it got to peckinpah and the guardian, that's when it became super personal.

I have heard some more stuff from a former crew member helping shape some of my thoughts here but I want to leave that out.

As far as sliders coming back, I think we all know it's pretty unlikely.  It would be great if peacock took a chance but... well you know.  It's not like 2012 or even 2015.  It's 2021.  I hope to see it but won't get hopes up.

What has been beautiful about the last couple of years has been seeing bitter JRD talk nicely about sliders again.  Ask for fans to help and even emailing the CEO of universal himself. 

It's been nice to see Sabrina positively acknowledge it.  After she went through her own trauma.  I don't think she had good feelings about it for awhile.

It's been nice to see Jerry and his revival attempts.  And seeing him get together with Cleavant again to talk possibilities.

And it's been nice to see Tracy not just look at all the bad stuff but be able to think about the good stuff. 

So in some ways we've had a little revival.  If the group ever sees the probable writing on the wall (that universal won't green light them) i could see them willing to participate in something Tracy has written and put together with no character names or show title... and just released for the fan groups.  Sound effects on an audio drama doesn't take a genius and they can easily record dialogue on a cell phone mp3 player in an hour.  Send a quick email from LA, New Zealand, Africa/Canada. 

We don't need it but if Tracy had someting written or in mind... everyone might as well do it.

Then again maybe the actors would be more by-the-book than I think.

Anyway it's just an idea

the Universal upscale with the lq setting is clearly better there...

I don't think we have to do anything more but my sense is all the creatives involved would be up for it.

It took a long time for Tracy to get over the trauma he suffered on the original series and how he was marginalized. But all the cheerleading from fans, from John, Jerry,  cleavant.. I think allowed him to move back into a creative head space around it and push some of these issues aside and feel good about the original sliders core.  I also think JRD coming around and even Sabrina developing some good feelings lately indicative that they appreciate what they achieved, they appreciate each other and they appreciate the fans.

And Jerry would be up for something like that if he knew the doors were closed.   I think they all would want to give the characters and the fans a proper and deserving send off.

So yea it's not so much about what we as fans need to do to create content but I think this time it's about recognizing the feeling that all of the original creatives have and perhaps suggesting an outlet to channel it.

I feel like John, Jerry etc might look the other way and do it on "the low" and Tracy might want to do it because he has always appreciated how fans have stuck with the series to this day.  If universal says no he frankly might feel it's something he can offer (like he almost gave earthprime a story a few years back).

I don't think we need this but if they'd like to do it then it would be cool to do.

Anyone see those star trek fan films?  Jon Povill even wrote and  directed one of them.

I'm starting to think it's time to do a Sliders return "off the books". No use or the title Sliders.  No use of even the character names.  But a script written by Tracy, audio recorded on mp3 recorders on ones phone by our core four all from their homes around the world.  And produced by fans into a 20 to 40 minute audio drama in which the sliders get home.  Universal wouldn't come after it if it was just informally released on sliders social channels.  I think the actors would do it for the fans. I think Tracy woiud consider it as well. 

This assumes of course universal gives Tracy their pass on his discussions with them on a revival series.

You could say I'm definitely not a purist, but I do empathize with Star Wars fans.  I think originals should always be accessible...

That said, in this case they are.  Via DVD.  And with Sliders on a service like Peacock, that should be appealing to a broad audience, and not the purists.

I don't mind tinkering with the original intent of cinematographers here, given that whatever look they have been going for assumed better conditions, and the content airing on SD.  Everything now is interfering with the look they hoped to achieve, so it basically doesn't work under the current conditions.  And yes, I think additionally their vision got out of whack anyway with how the content was maintained/produced. 

Plus, frankily, when you have some dated looking elements (most apparent in the pilot, with the wallpaper in quinn's home, or the wardrobes, or wade's look, or the computers..), you have to try to make sure the material looks more newly shot or the age of the program feels more out-of-date.  Stale.  If the picture looked as good as The Prisoner, let it be a period piece... but it can't even show the period with clarity.

i'd also argue for a peacock, the content should perhaps be dynamically cropped to 16:9.  It's 2021.  Look at how HBO Max takes pride in their library.  Sure's it's archival stuff but give consumers a half way decent experience, not just the schlock Universal sends you.  Even Seinfeld is cropped.

I'd love to see Tracy oversee somesort of upgrade, or restoration for Peacock.  Let him decide.

Modern tvs really should have an SD mode but then again maybe this is such a small use case.  It's just ironic situation.

I haven't compared the universal dvd vs. turbine blu-ray on the pilot.  I will say if I was ever put in charge of a restoration project, I would tweak the colors on almost every episode.  Not necessarily just to match the original intent (which could have lost some color as it was transferred/edited) but also to make it seem like it was shot more recently.

I usually thought the coloring was pretty good on the dvds/streaming S4/S5 content but veered toward dated as you go back.  After my changes to the pilot, with the up-res, it was pretty convincing to me that peacock could have a version of sliders that a 15 year old could enjoy and experience for the first time because it's much more watchable.  It felt HD or like a remastered scanned from negative thing.  Surprisingly, not that far off from Back to the Future (1986) blu-ray.   The only clues with the better look Sliders to the dating of the show are the cars and clothes but it doesn't ruin it.

A 16:9 image helps but I dont know how you can do a crop that isn't dead-center all the time. It worked for the pilot (though wasn't perfect and made all the shots more intimate) but you'd want to dynamically adjust it to make it work better in other episodes.

It can be pretty frustrating that a older shows look far better than sliders... I was really surprised how incredible The Prisoner (streaming on IMDBTV and amazon prime) looks.  Obviously filmed and edited on 35mm.

I remember seeing this awhile back. The site may have reprinted it.

I just checked some more episodes and honestly not seeing it. Maybe Goodfellas was handled differently in the original editing / post production.

Even darker lit parts of The Good, The Bad and the Wealthy don't have the issue.

Revisiting this, it's apparent this is not necessarily an issue everywhere.  It's most apparent in low-light situations, perhaps just early seasons, and perhaps also influenced by motion.  I'm looking at greatfellas which has darker scenes.

I'm not sure if its grain, but it may be partly that. So not sure if my initial description was accurate.

Mmm, I'm talking about what looks like digital noise (each "piece" very square) around the edges of let's say moving characters in wide shots (not on pilot).  Perhaps it's an effect of my dvd player trying to keep up with the pal /  ntsc conversion.  I should prob try to buy a cheap pal player to check.. if they are avail in u.s.

I wonder if some dvd players process the pal to ntsc conversion better.

I just did a comet vs. german release vs. original up-res samples comparison on goodfellas.

then universal dvd Rules of the Game vs. german release.

On the dvd/sd on blu-ray comparison, there was a clear advantage to the german release.  The universal release had a comparative noisy haze over the entire picture.

On the greatfellas comparison, the upres blew the german release out of the water.  The german release was an order of magnitude better than comet.

it's difficult for me to say if the german release looks better than peacock on goodfellas.  Close ups may be better and peacock seems to have more of a greenish hue to the image (i think) but on farther shots there is a far amount of pixelation on the german release that is smoother with peacock.  Then again, standing 12-14 feet, away the german release just looks better.

Got it working on another DVD player.  Certainly looks an order of magnitude better than the CometTV broadcast (happening now).

On a 40-inch tv, you can see the issues with the content upclose (sharp, pixelated noise on turbine vs a very fuzzy Comet image) but it looks pretty decent from 12-14 feet away.

I'll still have to compare against the universal blu-rays. I'm still hitting the higher pitched audio issue but I'm am not noticing the frame rate issue nearly as much.