781

(50 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

One thing that I've always had issue with is Doom.  I've heard he's supposedly the biggest bad of all the bads in the primary Marvel universe, but what are his powers?  What makes him so powerful?  How come I can't think of a single big-time Marvel event (granted, I don't know a ton) where he even participates?

I've seen the 2005 movie and the sequel and his powers are electricity?  Manipulation of some kind?  Being evil?  It's like he's a male Scarlet Witch - his powers are just whatever the plot demands.  And I've heard the same sort of power ambiguity exists in the new movie.

That's the funny thing about Doom; in the comics he doesn't really have any powers.  Doom is a super genius like Reed, and Doom's armor is essentially an Iron Man suit.  In fact, one of the more memorable Marvel stories is when Iron Man and Doom tangle over a time machine and end up in the time of King Arthur; the only way they get back home is by sharing armor components to build a new machine.

So Fox had an Iron Man type character in their movies before Marvel did, but they ignored that aspect of the Doom character.

What they were doing in the Tim Story movies was focusing on the natural elements.  The Fantastic Four represent the four elements (earth, fire, wind and water), and they were trying to make Doom into the fifth element.  In some cultures iron has been considered the fifth element; in some cultures electricity is the fifth element; the Story movies just threw it all in to see if it would stick.

As for Doom being a major threat, it comes from two areas. Doom is the King of his own country; he's like Saddam Hussein with the skill to build a particle accelerator from scratch.  He has a full army behind him of both real people and robots he created.  The FF even went in one time and freed the people of Doom's country; the people responded by fighting the FF to get Doom back.  Doom is actually good to his people and in terms of medieval times he would probably be considered a good king; he just wants to control everything.

The second area that makes Doom a major threat is his iron will.  The biggest Marvel U event he was a part of was Secret Wars (both the old and new series).  In that story, a god-like being called the Beyonder set up a Star Trek style battle royale between good and evil to see which was superior.  While the heroes and villains just play their parts in business as usual, Doom doesn't participate. Instead he works toward taking down the Beyonder himself; and even though the Beyonder strips Doom down to nothing but blood and bone, he still never gives up.  Doom gets in the Beyonder's head and turns his own power against him; then Doom takes the power and essentially becomes a god.   Ultimately Doom is beaten by the heroes using a similar tactic, but they do it as an army against him; Doom did it alone.

I think Fox's best bet is to absorb them into X-Men somehow.

There is a built in way to do it, but it would take skipping ahead in the FF time line.  Franklin Richards (the son of Reed and Sue) is a mutant who has the power to bend reality (i.e. creating a second earth on the other side of the sun); and this has caused the X-men and FF to tussle a few times.  Franklin is dangerous because he's just a little kid and doesn't know how to control it; Xavier wants to take Franklin away to teach him but Reed and Sue think they can handle it and don't want to give up their kid.

Franklin also had ties to a four person kid team called Power Pack who were usually tied into the X-men universe even tough they weren't mutants.  I don't know if Fox has the rights to them, though.

782

(50 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

A discussion over at TrekBBS has brought to light something I had not considered.  Most are assuming that Fox can make a deal with Marvel on the Fantastic Four rights (much like Sony / Spider-man), but is Fox in complete control of that decision?

This from an August 8 article at entertainment.ie:

http://entertainment.ie/cinema/news/Her … 368720.htm

(Bernd) Eichinger had been buying options for various properties with the plan of turning them into major movies. (In 1986), A discussion with Lee and Marvel proved fruitful, with Eichinger winning the rights to Fantastic Four for a price that's been speculated in and around $250,000. Eichinger's company, Constantin Films, was a shrewd investor and had bought the rights and turned The NeverEnding Story into a hugely successful franchise.

...

The deal he'd made with Stan Lee had a time-limit. He had until December 31st, 1992 to get a film made or else the property would revert back to Marvel's control and they could, technically, sell the rights again.

....

The most well-known version of events state that Eichinger churned out the film with Corman in order to keep control of Fantastic Four, enabling him to eventually sell it on to another studio. Eichinger would eventually go on to produce the 2005 version and Constantin Films are producers on the current version. Another version of events - corroborated by Eichinger himself - has it that Eichinger was approached by then-Marvel's film honcho, Avi Arad, and offered a refund of the money spent to make the film. Arad's thinking was that if the film were to see the light of day, it would ruin any chance of future Fantastic Four movies because people would associate the cheesy, Roger Corman-produced, B-movie elements with a higher-budget one. As Arad describes it, he bought the film and burn it so nobody would ever see it. He himself didn't even watch it. The film now has the dubious honour of being the first and only ashcan movie; a term that has its genus in old comics that were made purely for record-keeping purposes.

It seems that Eichinger was, throughout the production of the cheaper, unreleased version, looking ahead to a big-budget version. When Avi Arad stepped in around 1994, so did the money. $40,000,000 was put to make a new version. Eichinger had signed Chris Columbus attached to direct; who eventually left. Ant-Man's Peyton Reed was in contention to direct at one point. The film went through several permutations for over ten years before it eventually made its way to the screen in 2005.

So if the agreement had a 7 year window to make a movie under the license (1986 to the day before 1993), then how did Constantin stay in the picture until Fox made the movie in 2005?

Constantin Films set up the deal at Fox in 1994 starting with Chris Columbus.  When the licensing deadline approached in 2001, Marvel allowed Constantin Films an extension of their license expiration date so that they could continue developing the film with Fox; in exchange, Marvel got the film negative to the Roger Corman movie.

Is Constantin Films still the studio that's *actually* in control of the Fantastic Four rights?  Constantin Films is still involved even in the most recent Fantastic Four Film:

http://www.constantin-film.de/kino/fantastic-four/

There are no more ties to the Chris Columbus film; all of that development was used up on the 2005 movie.  Why would Constantin Films still be involved in the 2015 movie unless they've got something valuable?

783

(50 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Max Landis has released four pages from his script for this movie; it reads more like the banter I would expect from the core FF team.

http://www.ew.com/article/2015/08/10/ma … ript-pages

Max Landis, of course, the son of John Landis who was part of the original Sliders production team.

784

(50 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

From everything I've read about the plot, it sounds like Trank's FF was potentially a good story; it just wasn't a Fantastic Four movie.  It seemed to be hard sci-fi verging on horror; but after studio interference to try to shoe horn it into the original licensed IP, it turned out kind of like late Sliders season three.

I read some comments on another board that I think summed it up pretty well.  Fox has done pretty well with X-men because it is more "adult".  A thread throughout the X-men universe is one of social prejudices and the grim things that come along with it.  Marvel itself has likened the dynamic between Professor X and Magneto to be that of Martin Luther King vs Malcolm X; they weren't enemies; they fought for the same cause; but they were two opposite ends of the spectrum.  Of course, the credit for X-men's success is Bryan Singer and the people that surround him; but they kept it close enough to the original licensed IP and made enough money that Fox just let them do what they wanted.

Fantastic Four is more suited as family oriented fare; as Mark Waid termed them, the team can be summed up well as Imaginauts.  It's wide-eyed adventure with heroes and villains who are not really scary even though their underlying actions indicate they should be.  Doctor Doom makes deals with the actual devil all the time trying to save his mother's damned soul, but it doesn't really "feel" like he's doing that.  And social commentary?  The closest FF ever got to that was a late 80's story where a child set himself on fire so that he could be like his idol the Human Torch; it was something that was well done for that issue and pretty much forgotten by the next issue.

Really, I think Fantastic Four suffers from the same exact problem as Sliders - what is it if you try to put it into a box?  Is it science fiction?  Is it comedy?  Is it family drama?  Is it horror?  Is it corny?  Is it serious?  Well, yes.  It's everything.  It's a concoction that has to be mixed together with just the right technique, and even writers in the comics can't always get it right (Mark Millar being one of the ones I don't think has ever "got it" - and he was a consultant on this current movie which seemed to be partly based on the Ultimate Fantastic Four he wrote).

Personally, I think FF is best suited for television; and seeing what the CW can do with effects on Flash, I believe FF could be done well.  It's hard to see all of the facets of the property in an hour and a half at the movie theater, but you can cover it if you spread it out over 13 to 22 hours over the course of a television season.

785

(50 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Personally, I thought the first two Fox movies captured the FF pretty well; but it was the FF of 1963.  When FF first started in comics, it was not serious at all.  In an early story, Doctor Doom was defeated and left on an asteroid to die in deep space.  A few issues later, we open with a scene of Stan Lee working in his office when suddenly Doom bursts through the door.  Stan is shocked and exclaims "How did you escape that asteroid?!"; and his answer is "Doom explains himself to no man!" before Doom grabs the phone and crank calls Reed.   Seriously.  That was it; and that's what Fantastic Four was.

Despite it's world endangering plots, Fantastic Four was conceived to be light.  In truth, we have already had a very successful Fantastic Four movie - it was called The Incredibles.  Brad Bird embraced the concept for what it was meant to be and people loved it.  Of course, Bird also had the opportunity to put the Incredibles in a world populated with other heroes; and that is an element to Fantastic Four.  The FF has often served as a bridge book with all of Marvel's characters filtering in and out.

A blue vortex that creates a tunnel the characters fly through to enter another reality:

http://youtu.be/eA8TW3NZQSc

The scene where Frodo gets sucked in even reminded me of the often seen clip of Quinn holding on to the railing as Logan's vortex grows too powerful.

787

(31 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Last I heard, Ed was teaming up with Avril Lavigne to create a new rock group called "Da Mooks".

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4cn2vLyuy2M/hqdefault.jpg

788

(8 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Whoa, really? When did Marina play Donna Troy? Was this an episode of WONDER WOMAN or one of the DC Animated Features?

lol  That's what I get for posting so early in the morning.  I screwed up the name; I meant when Marina played this character:

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/memoryalpha/images/8/8e/Picard_with_hair.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/180?cb=20130402225946&path-prefix=en

789

(8 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Hehehe   I met Marina Sirtis a few years ago at Wizard World New Orleans.  I thought she was drunk; but I went to school with a guy that's worked with her, and he said she's just always like that.  Turns out she was doing a great deal of acting as Donna Troy, and we just never realized it.

Good to see ya around Jessie. smile

790

(10 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:

TF, were these episodes you found after re-run hell?  Hence lower numbers than say Alternateville Horror?

Yep. Sliders never really recovered after that.  We still had our moments, though; Farscape wasn't number one every week, but we would only win by one or two tenths of a point.

Also, surrounding posts that I printed out suggested that Net Worth's higher number likely resulted from an advertising push that happened just before it aired (including a full page ad in some magazines and commercials on USA Network talking up the return of Sci-Fi's then number one show Sliders).  When Sliders returned again in March, it didn't have that singular attention; it was just lumped in with other shows for the all new Sci-Fi Friday ad campaign.

Also to Jim, I don't know what you're using to get the day and time info for broadcasts, but here's a good site for everything Sci-Fi Channel if you need it:

http://www.innermind.com/sfc/

791

(10 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I checked my records and came up with a few season four ratings.  Way back when after Sci-Fi unexpectedly purged a large number of old posts from 1998, I went through the remaining archives and printed hard copies of everything that I felt was newsworthy (news about magazine articles, actor appearances in other shows, etc).  Unfortunately, all that was available was from December 20, 1998 forward; so all I have in hard copy ratings data is the back half of season four (with two missing for some reason).

1-11-99  -  Net Worth  -  1.3
1-18-99  -  Slide By Wire  -  No Record
3-19-99  -  Data World  -  1.2
3-26-99  -  Way Out West  -  1.2
4-02-99  -  My Brother's Keeper  -  No Record
4-09-99  -  The Chasm  -  1.2
4-16-99  -  Roads Taken  -  1.1
4-23-99  -  Revelations  -  1.1

The reason for the two with no record could be because Sci-Fi Wire didn't post the records that week; they weren't the most reliable.

Also, purely from memory, I know that Alternateville Horror had a 2.0.   It stuck in my mind because of how close the show got back to the Sci-Fi ratings record even at episode 8.

792

(10 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Sci-Fi Channel used to post each weeks's ratings on Sci-Fi Wire; it was a different scale than Nielsen used, but you can still figure out the Nielsen rating by doing the math.  You can see an explanation in a post by TemptressInfinity from the old Sc-Fi boards:

http://hof.slidersweb.net/misc/19067.html

The short of it is that during season four, 1 rating point on Sci-Fi Wire equaled 490,000 viewers.  During season five, 1 rating point on Sc-Fi Wire equaled 576,000 viewers.  On network tv during this time frame, 1 actual Nielsen point equaled 1,000,000 viewers.

On the old Sci-Fi board, I used to post each week what the Sci-Fi Wire ratings were.  I don't think the full season four ratings are available on the net right now, but you can see all of season five at this link:

http://hof.slidersweb.net/misc/19067.html#Tf

793

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Found this over at TrekBBS; it's pretty uncanny how well Kate Willaert could match the poses using what appears to be spliced art from multiple sources.

https://40.media.tumblr.com/7fda8f60c8aa3518f7d2266016e59fd2/tumblr_nr5lbjvDgm1rfnp17o1_1280.jpg

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CEHeJU3WAAA5H0S.jpg:large

Of course, they do call it time travel; but most people always did.

http://fusion.net/comic/163864/donald-t … adventure/

It does remind me of the original plan for "In Dino Veritas" where Geraldo follows through the vortex and ends up eaten by a dinosaur (leaving Quinn to scream "Geraldoooo!!!" in horror).

795

(31 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I'm afraid I can't accept this. Temporal Flux doesn't make mistakes when it comes to SLIDERS. Therefore, tom2point0's memory is faulty and TF did indeed meet him. This is merely one of those peculiar discrepancies. Like Rembrandt suddenly having served in the Navy! Which I'm sure can be resolved in some spin-off material. Like one of the online slides on the old Sci-Fi site later revealing that Rembrandt was a *cook* on a Navy ship. Get to it, everyone! Let's fine some way to reconcile the continuity here.

lol  Thinking of the old online slides reminded me; this article popped up while the board was offline and made me think of Synthia, the counselor A.I. From "The Chasm" slide:

http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2015/06/26/ … ogrammers/

796

(31 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

tom2point0 wrote:

Waaaaaaait what? You never met me! And I've been tom2point0 online since 2004-5!

Ah; that's my mistake.  For some reason I thought you were Tom Holste under a different name.  Sorry about that.

797

(31 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I've been around since the old MCA Net Forum back in 1996 (that being one of the original official boards; as you notice in the end credits of the early Sliders seasons, Universal was known as MCA Universal back then).  The MCA forum was the best of the two choices at the time; the official Fox board for Sliders was a pretty dark place filled with immature and vicious people.

I've seen a lot of people come and go, and I've met a good many in person. Of those still around, I've met Vortex62 and tom2point0 (WrongArturo) through Atlanta's annual DragonCon convention; and JessieMallory lived near me for a time.  But most of my connection to this community comes through longevity; I've been at this for almost 20 years at this point.

798

(8 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

It does remind me of the Sliders premise and brings up something people don't recognize enough in our society.  The series focused on how broad points in American and world history changed, but do we even know what the real history was to begin with?  It all tends to get white washed and re-written for each new generation.

I don't regret anything I've said in the past; I don't regret anything I've done.  Certainly I have taken experience from it and learned, but it's all a part of who I am and who I always will be.  I'm not ashamed.