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Apparently Michael Keaton is in talks to return to the Flash movie.  But the more interesting part about it is the idea that Keaton could be signing a multi-film deal.

The Flash movie is supposed to be Flashpoint.  If they're looking to swap out Batman, they have a built-in way to swap out Batman with Jeffrey Dean Morgan.  Maybe it isn't Flashpoint and the movie takes him to the Batman 89 universe, and they bring Batman back with him?

I'm very interested in catching up with the Keaton Batman.  But this seems like a really weird option.

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It isn't a matter of it being worth his time.  The coronavirus affects his chances at re-election.  The lockdown hurts the economy, which is his number one talking point.  With a pandemic, he can't hold his rallies...which is one of 1) his favorite things to do but 2) his best way to stir up support and get people excited to vote.  Them there's the idea that his major followers either don't believe in the virus at all or don't believe it's that big of a deal. 

So even if Trump were a good president who wants what's best for people, it's counter to his entire re-election campaign to do anything about it.  I'll give him credit for going along with the lockdown on any level, but he's essentially hoping to just ride out the storm and pretend that if he acts like things are back to normal, they'll be back to normal.

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TemporalFlux wrote:

With Biden, we won’t really know who is president.  Even if he wins, it’s not going to be him; there’s no way he can handle it.

This is actually part of the reason I think it would work.  Biden can essentially be the "CEO president" that his voters were expecting/hoping for from Trump.  Where something happens and the president could send the appropriate party (a cabinet member, the vice president, etc) to handle it.  As a one-term president, it would be more about a) stablity and b) getting experience for the next generation of Democrats.  The Democrats weren't really able to do that because everyone knew that Hillary was going to win the 2016 nomination.  If you want Yang in 2024, getting four years of experience in a Biden administration helps (I don't know if he even wants that but it would).  If you want Kamala, being VP or attorney general will help there.  If you want Mayor Pete, he could get the federal executive experience that people thought he was missing.  Inexperience was the downfall of most of the candidates in 2020, and a hands-off president could give big time experience to a ton of people.

It'd be exactly like the Trump administration except it'd be smart people running things instead of Trump's kids.

Don't get me wrong, I don't like Biden either.  He's not my choice.  But I think he'd at least get the country back on the rails.  And that's all I'm really looking for.  I like Yang quite a bit, and I think Biden winning makes it *much* more likely that Yang can win in 2024.  And that applies to pretty much every 2020 Democratic candidate under 70.

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Well I think you have to look at a couple things with Biden:

1. His campaign has been much more friendly with the Sanders campaign than Hillary's was.  I've said it before - Hillary should've run the primary by sucking up to Bernie.  She could've essentially said "I love Bernie, but the people are voting for me.  I have to listen to them" and she would've easily won.  Whether you want to say it was rigged or not, she had essentially won the primary without having a single vote cast.  She'd been working on it for 8 years.  It was in the bag.  Why she ever went dirty against Bernie was beyond me.  It cost her votes.  Bernie Bros may still be mad now and may hold it against Biden, but Bernie (and Yang) have been out in front of the campaign.  I think by November, the party will be more unified than it was in 2016.

2. I'm hoping (fingers crossed) that people see Biden as a hard reset.  Rewind the clock back to 2016.  Use the typical American theory that a popular president's VP will run after his term is over, and assume that Biden ran in 2016.  And just feel normal.  They can even pretend Obama is there while it's happening.  It really doesn't matter.  It also represents a hard stop because he's already said he was only going to be a one term president.  Get a female VP for the first time and then have an open race in 2024 (with the female VP being the leader in the clubhouse for that race).

So whether you see Biden as being too conservative or too old or too boring or too creepy or whatever, I think people will just see him as "Not Trump" when November rolls around.

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232 is what Hillary got.  I think that's Biden's minimum.  Voter suppression has been happening forever and I don't think there's enough voter suppression to impact that.

I think it's easier to suppress voters in North Carolina, Florida, and Arizona than Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin.  If it shakes out like that, Biden wins.  Of course, if it shakes out the opposite, Biden wins even bigger.

Voter suppression is one thing, but Trump's doing his own version of that.  He's hemorrhaging voters left and right whether it be on the economy (which is flailing and will get worse), the courts (where "his" Supreme Court keeps choosing against him), social issues (if he had very many minority voters left, they're going away) and as TF said, safety issues (Trump has looked very weak from a law and order standard).

Trump would have to actively work to suppress Biden's voters.  Biden doesn't have to do anything to suppress Trump voters - his own failings are doing that for him.

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Transmodiar wrote:

The ONLY way Biden wins this fall is because people are so disenfranchised. He is such a shitty choice that many younger voters will peace out and leave the voting to the Boomers who think he's still relevant.

I mean I just don't agree with this.  I'm no fan of Biden but he's got so many things in his favor.  Trump's base is nebulous at best because people assume there are 60 million Evangelicals that are loyal to him, but that's not true.  His "base" from 2016 was evangelicals, fiscal conservatives, and people that straight-up hated Clinton.  Two-thirds of that group is wavering at best.  The economy is floundering and will only be worse in November so the fiscal conservatives aren't going to rush out for four more years of that, and Biden's own right-leaning ways help with that.  And I don't think people hate Biden the way they hated Hillary.  The best they can come up with is that he's sleepy.

Then there's the math.  Biden has 183 electoral votes today locked up.  No question.  Done.  The west coast and Illinois and New England are blue, period.  You have your Minnesotas and your Nevadas and your Virginias and your Colorados that are probably blue.  It essentially gets him to Hillary's 232 without breaking a sweat.

Trump?  He has the heartland and Dixie, but those states barely add up to more than California alone.  Even Texas is borderline purple (and if he loses Texas, both he and the Republicans are done for a very long time).  Everyone laughs at Texas as a republican stronghold, but I live here and I don't know a single person who's going to vote for him.  The cities are overwhelmingly blue.  And the demographics are changing.  The farmland is overwhelmingly Trump, but steer don't vote.  I think Texas goes blue in 2024 or 2028.  And if it went blue in 2020, it wouldn't surprise me.

But let's say he gets Texas.  And let's say he gets Ohio, which could easily be a battleground state.  And let's say he gets Georgia (which could easily flip with all the activism happening there) and Iowa.  Even then, he's barely at 200.

It leaves Arizona, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, Wisconsin, and Florida as your battleground states.  Trump won in 2016 because he won all those states.  He won North Carolina by 150,000.  Arizona by 100,000 votes.  Florida by 100,000.  Pennsylvania by 50,000.  Wisconsin by 20,000.

So he needs every one of those people that voted for him to vote for him again.  He might be able to lose one of those 5 and still win, but he probably needs a full sweep.  During a pandemic he made worse.  During a recession.  After four years of doing nothing he said he'd do.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Made easier now because much of the voter registration will not happen.  That's done door to door, at colleges, or concerts, things like that.  None of which is happening.  Will be one of the worst youth turnouts ever, probably, suiting both candidates fine as neither are liked by them.

Isn't there voter registration happening at the protests?  I haven't been to any (can't risk anything with an infant), but I thought I'd heard that there was a big push at the rallies?  I know a lot of my black friends on social media have been making a push to make sure that voting stays a part of the protests.  Which would be huge - if there's even a minor uptick in black voting from 2016, Trump is beyond toast.

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I'm very much looking forward to the return of the Orville

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I don't know a ton about Hartley Sawyer.  In 2014, he was already a cast member on Young and the Restless so it isn't like he was a guy on twitter who knew all of his followers personally.  I do think, especially before cancel culture really kicked in, people posted things on social media that might've been inside jokes or references that only his friends care about.  I don't know about some of his more angry-sounding tweets, but the "women shouldn't vote" tweet could've just as easily been about a female friend of his who was the deciding vote to get Mexican food when he wanted pizza.  A story he might not even be able to remember now.  I know that happens to me with my facebook "on this date" stuff....I have no idea what I meant sometimes.

I would think that we should judge Sawyer on his current life now.  But unfortunately, he works on the wrong show at the wrong time for that to matter right now.  If he's truly changed, I hope his castmates come to his defense...if not for his career, at least so people don't demonize him.

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TemporalFlux wrote:

A shame about Sawyer.  I think that my concern with this “cancel” is that he’s been on the show three years now, I think?  If he were behaving badly on set or in person, I would hope it would have come to light before now (especially after Kreisberg), so it’s sad to me to see another career ruined and show damaged due to written acts on Twitter.

I guess we'll see what happens.  I would think Candice Patton is the type who would say something if she felt he was racist or sexist.  I also think Jesse L. Martin as the paternal figure on the show could speak for him or Jessica Parker Kennedy or Danielle Panabaker or Danielle Nicolet or anyone on the show.  There's a lot of women and a lot of people of color on that show, and I hadn't heard a thing about it.  Unless he completely hid his sexism and racism, I think TF is right...it would've come out.  So I guess we'll see if it comes out now.

I hope Hartley can work again.  He lost this job but Gunn got his job back.  Even Mel Gibson made a comeback.  I don't think his career has to be over - especially if his change is real and his apology is genuine.  People love to tear celebrities down, but we also like a real comeback story.  He's young and I think he's at least CW talented.  If he wants to claw his way back, I think he can.

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Yeah this one is probably out of anyone's hands.  The Kreisberg explanation makes sense.

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That's upsetting and disappointing about Hartley Sawyer.  I think he's a fun actor who thrived in the Arrowverse with a character that doesn't have much going for it.  I understand why they did what they did, with the Arrowverse working very hard to be inclusive.

That being said, the article lists tweets that go up to 2014.  I know he deactivated his twitter so it doesn't mean he's changed in six years, but what are the terms we're using to cancel people?  How do we decide who gets a second chance (like James Gunn) and who doesn't?  I'm assuming that this isn't politically based (no idea if he's a Republican), but it's hard to say if Sawyer is getting the Dean Cain treatment.

It does sound like he's sorry.  And I'll never understand why it was okay to hire him after these tweets happened and it's not okay now.  I assumed he made a tweet in the last couple of weeks, but to see that it was six years ago before he even joined the Flash is a tad troubling.  If he learned from it and has been good around his female and black costars, I'd think he'd have been treated differently.  But that's not my call.

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ireactions wrote:

The other problem is that the Season 1 cliffhanger left us with Jacob hunting Batwoman, 'Bruce' about to approach Kate, Sophie and Julia pairing up, Parker in the cave and looking to Kate for leadership, Luke at a degree of odds with Kate -- and if next season, Kate is just gone, there is no way the show can possibly pay off any of these arcs. Season 1 will be a pointless build to nothing. Not only are the fans of Season 1 unenthused about Season 2, they won't even want to rewatch Season 1.

Well, I think anything could work.  If I were a Batwoman writer in charge of writing a Season 2 premiere with the parameters that a) I can't do a full reboot b) I need to keep the existing main cast and characters and c) I need to introduce a new Batwoman, I'd pick up several months later.

I'd have Bruce return and immediately cut Luke out.  Lock out the Batcave and re-assign him somewhere else in Wayne Enterprises.  He tells Luke not to worry and that he has a plan.  Luke trusts him.  Bruce also sends Kate and Julia on a mission far away, and the team hasn't heard from them sense.

With no Batcave to work out of and Luke tied up, Mary and Parker have taken over control of Team Batwoman, but with no vigilante to work with, it's just a lot of recon and staking out and setting up a temporary new batcave.  Alice has been trying to get Kryptonite and hasn't been able to.  She finds out that Kate has some, but Bruce hasn't been able to find it.  And to make matters worse, Bruce hasn't heard from Kate and doesn't know where she is.  So to draw them out, Alice kidnaps Sophie and Kane and tells them Kate's secret.

Julia re-appears.  She says Kate has a plan and that they need to be ready to storm the building that Alice is keeping Kane and Sophie.  Julia leads the charge, and takes out a few bad guys.  Once she's cornered, Batwoman shows up.  She handles the rest and faces off against Alice.  But Alice knows something is wrong and runs off.

Batwoman grapples out before dealing with Sophie and Kane.  Julia unties them and they ask why she left.  They know she's Kate.  The ruse is over.  "That wasn't Kate," she says.

New Batcave.  Luke, Julia, Parker, and Mary are there.  Batwoman drops in.  "Kate where have you been?" and the such.

Batwoman takes off her helmet.  "Hi, I'm Ryan.  Bruce sent me"

Essentially, I'd have it be that "Bruce" sent Kate and Julia off on an assignment to allow him to thoroughly search the Batcave.  When things are fishy, Julia reached out to Alfred somehow and got a message that it wasn't Bruce.  Bruce gets Kate to come find him, and he sends Ryan (his protege) in her place to defend Gotham.

I'd have Luke, Parker, and Mary working together for a long-enough time that they have history.  I'd have Kate's secret exposed so Sophie and Kane can just be police foils (and maybe eventually written off like Lance).  Julia can be familiar with Ryan, at least a little bit.

So you'd have a new Batwoman on an established team that at least has experience working together minus Kate, a new Batwoman with different connections to Bruce, and Bruce/Alice no longer have knowledge of all the pieces on the board.

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I think the main problem is that the show is set up in a way where Kate has an emotional connection to everyone on the show.  She's Beth's sister.  Commander Kane's daughter.  Mary's step-sister.  Sophie's ex.  Luke's partner.  And that's the whole main cast.

A new character could certainly work with all these people, but you can't replicate those relationships.

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What a weird call.

I wonder if the thought is that Ruby Rose doesn't want to do a full season of a show but that she'd be open to come back in one form or another (crossovers?).  If you recast Kate, you can't have Ruby come back.  So maybe Kate gets a message from Bruce and leaves mysteriously.  And this Ryan Wilder shows up as a protege of Bruce's to fill in for Kate while she has to leave.  Maybe it's a Batman, Inc. situation where Bruce is leaving to set up different Batman "franchises" in other places, and she needs Kate to help with that.  Then Kate can come back next time the world's in trouble?

That's gotta be the reason.  Recasting worked twice in the MCU - I don't see why the Arrowverse would see itself as above such a thing.

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I have a friend whose mother is a diehard MAGA person.  Evangelical.  Nationalist.  Boomer.  I've always thought she was a very sweet lady.  Her husband is even older and is a very sweet, gentle, quiet man.  It bothers me that she's been swept up in all this crap.

It bothers me more that I never would've figured she would.  Maybe she wasn't a very sweet lady.

I had a long conversation with my own mother.  She voted for Trump in 2016, but it never seemed like she voted for him because she liked Trump.  I think she was raised to vote Republican, and I think she's always had an issue with the Clintons.  She's not political at all so it's more of one of those people that hates them "just because."  She's regretted her Trump vote and has listened to increasingly less conservative talk radio (thank you, true crime podcasts!), and I'm about 95% of the way getting her to vote for Biden.

I think this is a story of two people.  My friend's mom won't change.  My friend is worried that if Trump loses, it will be the end of his family.  My mother has changed.  She might vote Democrat for the first time in her life (I had to explain to her that there were huge chunks of the 90s where she should've but that's a story for another day).

Too often, we focus too much on the people like my friend's mother.  They're, in a way, brainwashed.  That's not to say that she's a victim, but I don't think they're salvageable before 2020.  I think we need to try and remember the people like my mother.  The people that thought maybe Trump would work.  The people that thought it was time to hand the job to a non-politician.  The ones who like the idea of draining the swamp.  The ones who liked the idea of a Republican during a good economy.  The ones who just didn't like Hillary Clinton and have not liked her since 1992 for various contradictory reasons.

As I've said, he didn't win by that much.  He hasn't converted many to his side in four years.  He can't afford for too many people to be like my mom.

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ireactions wrote:

Long time Republican campaigner Steve Schmidt, who is responsible for Sarah Palin, renounced the Republican party after Trump and pinned a lengthy repudiation on his Twitter account at https://twitter.com/steveschmidtses -- and showed that it's okay to admit when we've made a mistake.

Definitely. 

https://twitter.com/lindseygrahamsc/sta … 08?lang=en

This has made the rounds quite a bit since 2016.  Lindsey Graham knew that Trump was a problem.  Then, he changed his mind.  Now he's one of Trump's most loyal lapdogs.

So what happened?  Did he meet Trump and realize that he was wrong?  Or is he playing politics?  I think Graham will support Trump as long as it suits him and drop him when he doesn't.  And I think that sentiment, more than conservatism, is what the big problem is in Washington.  We need (at least) two parties.  I'd love for another party, separate to the GOP, to rise up.  But I think our best bet is for the republicans to get rid of the two-facers and try to find their true soul.

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I really don't understand the support for Trump.  I understand the support for conservative politics, and I understand that he's the best bet for conservative judges and conservative-ish policies (although I'm not sure there's much conservative policy being generated during this administration - it's mostly the judges).  I understand that he says a lot of things that sound good to both conservatives and Christians (pro-life and 2nd amendment protection).  I understand that it makes the libs mad, and that makes conservatives feel good after Obama.

But 90% of that is obvious bullshit.  The reason there hasn't been any marquee conservative legislation is because Trump doesn't stand for anything.  The reason he talks about Christian values without displaying any of them is that he doesn't care.  At the end of the day, all he has is the blustering of a bully and hatred on his side.  He's abandoned any notion that he cares about anyone but white people, and he's focusing his campaign on white supremacy and trying to trick Christians.

I still don't think that all Trump supporters are evil, but I don't get following this guy.  He's not a leader, and he's not particularly good at pretending that he is.  And Republican leaders that supported him can stop whenever they want.  They don't have to openly condemn their own president, but they can stop with the positives.  Stop with open support.  Do not help elect.

Trump is doing too much damage to the Republican party, and he's not doing anywhere near enough good to recoup it.

I don't think Trump has nearly enough votes to get elected (and I'm in TEXAS), but even if he does, the Republican party is robbing Peter to pay Paul (a reference Trump wouldn't get) in a really dangerous way.  Because if they really pivot to a party for only white people, Democrats will dominate in a country of shifting demographics for decades.  They have a chance to say "we made a mistake, we sold our souls, but enough is enough" and pivot to a platform that stands for conservative politics but not white politics.  And, honestly, if they start now and really work at it, I think they could have things (mostly) cleaned up by the time the election happens.

But it won't matter.  They won't.  They feel like they're in too deep and have to see the bullshit all the way through.  Sad.

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They released a special edition of Suicide Squad.  Other than the Joker stuff (that wasn't on either) and the overall non-trailer tone of the movie, do we know what would've been demonstrably different?

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ireactions wrote:

There are reports that the SNYDER CUT could be a four hour mini series. Will we spend an entire episode detailing Steppenwolf's first war with the Amazons and the Green Lanterns before any Leaguers even appear? Will one installment be devoted to Bruce and Arthur sitting in a bar talking? Will an episode be set entirely in Barry's bunker as Bruce and Barry share a pizza? Will the first fight between Diana, Barry, Cyborg, Bruce and Steppenwolf be expanded to fill a whole hour?

This is actually a really good question.  Movies aren't structured the same way as miniseries/TV shows.  I would think he'd have to structure it in a way where the "episodes" (if that's how it's done) have a beginning, middle and end.  As much as shows like to tout themselves as "10-hour movies" they have to have a certain structure.  Even when Kill Bill was broken into two volumes, each movie had to have a beginning, middle, and an end.

Will the Snyder cut do that?  They could possibly do a Bruce hour, a Diana hour, a Clark hour, and a finale.  With Bruce recruiting Barry and Arthur in the Bruce hour and the Cyborg stuff in the Diana hour.

Other than that, just release it as a 4-hour movie like they did with the Irishman.

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What sucks is that the news pretty much immediately overshadowed the fact that Bruce Wayne "appeared" in the Arrowverse.  They cast Bruce Wayne!

(even if they didn't, they did)

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If you're asking me, if recasting is the route, I hire the best person.  I watched Ashley Platz' audition tape, and she looks and sounds nothing like Ruby Rose.  But if she's the best Kate, go with it.  Long hair, short hair.  Tall, short.  To me, it doesn't matter.  Edward Norton and Mark Ruffalo don't look anything alike, and they both played Bruce Banner in the same continuity.  If you want to say that Incredible Hulk is only partially continuity, then I'll counter with Terrance Howard and Don Cheadle.

In the interests of representation, it should be a lesbian actress.  And if they really want to go authentic, a Jewish lesbian.  But other than that, we're going to have to suspend our belief either way.

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There haven't been any other Batwomen, have there?  It isn't like Batgirl or Robin or the Flash or Green Lantern - there's only been Kate Kane, right?

Because they could have Kate die and have someone else take up the Batmantle.

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TemporalFlux wrote:

There should be some interesting things in this cut, though.  I’m curious if my theory about Wonder Woman is correct. It seemed out of place that she lacked confidence to be the leader in the final version; but I suspect that’s a fragment left from Snyder’s intended story.  I believe in Snyder’s opening gambit with Wonder Woman, she failed in stopping the bomb and people died.  That would shake her confidence.

Hasn't this been confirmed?  There's an explosion in the trailer, and I thought I saw something about her stopping one bomb but missing the other.

I respect Snyder's vision.  I respect that he wants to create a realistic world where gods walked the earth.  They'd be controversial.  They'd be human.  They'd be fallible.   Superman would be frustrated and would miss a bomb going off.  Wonder Woman would save one group but miss another.  Batman would certainly kill people, either accidentally or on purpose.  If Superman fought another Kryptonian in a major city center, it would cause immense damage.

My only problem with Snyder's movies is that he doesn't give any of those things the proper weight.  Because I don't think he has any emotional tie to any of it.  I think he thinks its cool when two Kryptonians destroy a city, and I don't think he cares about the "people" in the buildings.  I think he thinks its cool when Batman uses Arkham-style violence to break spines, but I don't think he worries about the paralyzed "person" afterwards.  I'm putting "person" and "people" in quotes not because Snyder doesn't care about people, but I'm just not sure he's concerned with extras and faceless people in movies.  They don't have names, we don't see them for the most part so I don't think he cares.  Which I think is fair.

And honestly if he'd made an original property like The Boys, I think it would've been fine.  The problem is that he decided to twist *established* characters and didn't bother explaining anything.  He wanted cool shots and didn't want a scene where Alfred and Bruce talk about why he's changed so much.  He didn't want a scene where Superman actually rescues people.  He likes cool shots where Superman is dragging a tanker or slow-motion flying someone out of a burning building or floating above a flooded house.

I think BvS is *this close* to being a great movie.  I think the 5% that it's missing is 5% of the movie that Snyder didn't care about.  Its why I didn't have a huge uptick from watching the Ultimate version.  Yeah there's 40 minutes more but he didn't use any of those minutes to address what I think are huge problems.  And in my opinion, it's because he doesn't care.

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I honestly don't believe it.  I have to assume that Snyder did most of the heavy lifting for free (even though I still saw they're going to spend 20-30 million on it). 

They obviously couldn't do Snyder's reshoots, but did he film everything?  I'm assuming they can do animation for stuff that was unfilmed or needed to be reshot.

I'll watch it.  But I've watched tons of videos and did a decent amount of research looking for why people care so much, and I haven't seen much that makes me think this version is going to blow anyone away.  Some more backstory, a couple of dropped subplots, and a few teases that will *never* be followed up on.  At least not in live action.

But for all the people who dedicated their lives to this, I'm legit happy for them.  This is a big win for nerddom.

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I think that's fair.  No worries.

But when you feel better with it, the table read was really well done.  It was nice to see the cast interact with each other and crack up.  Pedro Pascal was very fun.

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I'm fascinated to see what they do.  If it were me, I'd do what the Avengers did and not reference it.  Ashley Platz seemed to be the second choice and still seems interested in the job on Twitter.  If they go with her (or, to avoid further controversy, a Jewish lesbian actress), I just wouldn't acknowledge it.  The characters would know it's the same character and it'd be up to us as the audience to just accept it.

I think the easy way out (easy meaning a huge sell to WB) would be to just use the Bruce Wayne actor and do a Batman show, but a) it'd be killing off the lead female LGBT actress and b) replacing her with a straight white dude.  The CW is clearly aiming for representation and that isn't it.  As ireactions said, this level of representation and storytelling is important.

My other favorite idea is to, once again, shake things up.  Take a hero from some other show (Cisco, Caitlin, Sara, heck Ray and Nora, Ralph, Jimmy Olsen, Brainiac, etc) and move them onto the Bat team.  Still involves killing Batwoman, but it might be a good story to have a sidekick given the chance to run a team.  You could also bring in another female LGBT character to lead if you don't want to do that.  Or merge it with Green Arrow and the Canaries.  Have Mia come back in time to save Gotham.

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Um....so Ruby Rose quit Batwoman.

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ireactions, did you see the Community table read they did yesterday.  Really funny stuff.

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I've been mildly impressed on how the Arrowverse has been able to work to make their final episodes into season finales.  It's clear that there was going to be more in each season, and these are all going to make for interesting "next seasons".  For example, will the Flash be dealing with the new Mirror Master as a season-long villain?  Or will they wrap her story up quickly and move on to their next story?  Same could be said of Batwoman/Alice/War with Kane and Supergirl/Leviathon/Lex.

I guess it shows that most of these shows end on cliffhangers most of the time.  So in essence, it could've worked with any episode they ended on.  But it's interesting...the Walking Dead chose to delay their season finale until it could be completed.  I wonder if that was an option for Flash or Batwoman (it wasn't an option for Supergirl unless Melissa Benoist could work while pregnant).

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SPOILERS for the BATWOMAN FINALE

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Whoa, they did it.  They actually cast Bruce Wayne and had him "appear" - I wonder if they actually are able to use Batman.  This is, by far, the closest they've ever come.  They'll have "Bruce" show up next season.  I wonder...

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I wish they'd get out of the TOS era.  If Picard doesn't want to do any Starfleet action, I'd rather have a companion piece on a Starfleet show that takes place during the Picard era.

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Yeah, I hope so too.  I also like the idea of a series that takes place in the future.  We could see how the rest of the arrowverse developed.  What's the future of Team Flash?  Could we see Bart there?  Could we see Terry McGinnis (or if they wanted, Terri McGinnis).

You know more people in that world than me.  I don't know if she'd jump at the chance for another show (or a movie) if she got the opportunity, or if she'd wait for a show she could star in.  Maybe she would...but would everyone?  That's what I always hear about when shows are cancelled - that the actors scramble to find new work.  There's no new work now, I'd imagine, but once there is, I wonder if she'd get swept up.

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Well that's the funny thing.  Han Solo talks about how he's been all around the galaxy and hasn't seen anything that would lead him to believe that the Force is real.  But the Jedi were *everywhere* 30 years earlier.  Even if he never saw a Jedi, there would be *tons* of living beings that would've been alive at the height of their power.

I wonder if the prequels should've gone in a different direction.  Maybe the Jedi officially ended in the Old Republic and the Sith/Jedi were fighting a secret war.  Obi-Wan worked in secret, and he finds Anakin.  The two of them fight for a couple decades, until Anakin is seduced by their rival faction.

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Parks and Rec is great.  It *really* struggled to find its legs, but once it did, it was so great.

Devs acts like it's dark and presents itself as dark, but I don't think it ends up being dark.  I think there are hopeful moments, and I think it ends on a fairly hopeful note.

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Anyone see the miniseries "Devs"?  It was written and directed by Alex Garland, and I thought it was well done.  And since it plays around with the multiverse, I thought it was pretty cool.  Anyone else check it out?

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The Clone Wars

I just started watching the Clone Wars because I know that Clone Wars and Rebels is going to play into season 2 of the Mandalorian.  I've never seen it before, but I've heard good things.  So far, I like it, but I keep coming up with a question.

The Jedi are generals in the war.  They lead troops, and they're referred to as "generals" - we saw this in the movies as well.

....are the Jedi qualified for this?  I'm only on episode 3, but Anakin is drawing up battle plans.  Are advanced battle strategies part of Jedi training?  In addition to the standard things we see younglings do, are they also in classrooms learning about troop movements and flanking procedures?  Did we miss Luke learning about this stuff during his training on Dagobah?

Mace Windu specifically says "we're keepers of the peace, not soldiers" and you'd think that the clone troopers would be much more qualified.  I know there's a leadership structure for the clones, and I would think the clones with the most experience would be leading the war with the Jedi serving more in a "special forces" capacity.  Even if the Republic didn't have other military leaders to lead the clone troopers, I don't think the Jedi should've been put in charge.

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I guess with the pandemic, there's less of a chance that people like Kat McNamara will get picked off by other shows, but the longer they don't lock her and the other actors up, the less of a chance this show happens.

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ireactions wrote:

I was under the impression that the CW network had shuttered SUPERNATURAL  after the entire cast and crew were murdered in a strange event involving the Loom of Fate, an assassin, a shapeshifter and a drunk named John as revealed in the documentary series DC's LEGENDS OF TOMORROW.

Ha!

I wonder why they didn't do a full crossover.  I know Jared and Jensen have talked about it with Stephen Amell years ago.  They couldn't get anyone to show up and play themselves?  Was Alexander Calvert busy?

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The CW announced that the plan is for Supernatural to return with its final episodes in the Fall.  Since they still have to film two episodes, that's very much a question.  But, as I said in the DC shows post, that's about the only original programming planned for the CW in the fall.

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Some news!

Word is that CW won't debut their normal lineups until 2021.  They're going to try and finish Supernatural to air in the Fall, and they've purchased some things (most notably DC Universe's Swamp Thing) to fill the holes.

Flash, Batwoman, and Superman and Lois will debut in the Winter of 2021.  Supergirl will hold until midseason (with Legends) since Melissa Benoist is pregnant.  Nothing on Green Arrow and the Canaries.

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Yeah, I agree.  I wonder if there's a certain pressure from the writers of the Flash to be the "headlining" series.  It's easy for the Flash to be the fun "junior" series when Arrow has dark and brooding taken care of.  These days, Legends has the fun taken care of.  Maybe the Flash feels the need to be dark and brooding like the show that just ended.

I think the writers are going about things the wrong way.  If I were them, I wouldn't have season-long villains.  Because, you're right, you sorta have to make Barry look weak or dumb whenever he can't defeat a single villain.  I don't think Bloodwork or Cicada were necessarily any stronger than Pied Pier or Weather Wizard or Captain Cold...villains that Barry was able to beat in one episode. 

I like the idea of mini-seasons, but I might even go further than that.  Maybe 2-4 episode "blocs" where villains show up, make life difficult for Barry, and after an episode or two, they defeat them.  And I would use the same "villain of the week" villains.

I also think the problem is that speed isn't fun anymore.  Barry sees the Flash as being his job - not being fun.  Speed is a means to save people, not a rush.  They had some fun when Cisco got powers, when Caitlin got powers, when Ralph got powers.  A new Wells every season isn't enough "newness" to have fun.

It's why I would've killed Barry.  Shake the show up.  It's essentially the same cast from season one with a wacky new sidekick and a wacky new Wells.  I think the show could stand to lose 2/3 of Cisco, Wells, and Caitlin.  It may be time to move on from Joe West.  Not because those character are old or stale, but they've done so much with those characters.  If they'd done TF's idea and killed Barry to replace him with Bart (also played by Gustin), then they could've played with a novice speedster on a team led by someone else (Ralph or Cisco or Frost).  Bart could have fun.  There'd be a new side for whoever the leader is.  There could be a new mentoring aspect.

The Flash needed a shakeup.  Still does.

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TemporalFlux wrote:

lol - they haven’t said yet, but it would logically follow.  If Earth Prime was now always the only earth where our heroes lived together, then there were no parallel earths for those other characters to come from.  Certainly our main characters (like Barry) remember them, but the new Earth Prime history would have formed without the influence of parallel earth characters.

I actually see both sides of this.  The show is playing with the idea that Nash survived and erased all the other Wells from existance.  They're surviving in him (somehow) but they don't "exist"  And if Nash exists, then Harrison Wells couldn't.  However, we *know* that Harrison Wells did exist on Earth Prime - Pied Piper both recognized him and referred to him by name.

My theory - Nash is Nash's memories in the original Harrison Wells' body.  So Wells was "merged" into one person, but the Nash personality is what survived. 

Alternate theory - Since Earth Prime Harrison Wells was dead, a copy of him (Nash) is able to survive on Earth Prime?  So unlike the Beths, one was already dead so everything is fine.

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An actress knows who I am!  I'm not even going to try and guess now! smile

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Hmmm, I guess I forgot that the insurrection was caused by the Romulans.  Did they reprogram the androids?  And they sorta shot themselves in the foot if it cut the rescue effort short.

Plus, no one else seemed to help with the evacuation.  No Klingons or Ferengi or Cardassians or anyone else came to their aid.  I guess this is when the Romulans found out they had no friends smile

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I was thinking about Star Trek: Picard this morning, and I don't know if I understand something.

So what happened with Romulus again?

I'm assuming that, while the destruction of Romulus from 2009 is canon, the Countdown comic isn't.  In that, Data is captain of the Enterprise (right, ireactions?).  So all we really know is that Picard was there, the robot insurrection happened, and Picard was called back.  But the events of Picard don't really have anything to do with that, right?  The androids rebelled on their own?  The Romulans didn't have anything to do with that? 

Because I understand Picard's point, of course.  The Federation and Starfleet should've saved as many people as they could.  But at the same time, I don't understand how much the destruction of Mars would've impacted Starfleet.  Was this like Pearl Harbor?  Did Starfleet pull their ships back because they couldn't risk losing anything else?  How long after the Dominion War was Romulus?  How secure was the Federation at that point and how "healthy" was Starfleet?

I guess I'm trying to understand how "evil" the decision Starfleet made.  Did they make a selfish one (sorry, Romulans, you gotta deal with this on your own, we got our own problems now) or a difficult pragmatic one (I'm sorry this is happening, we did our best, but we can't risk anything else or we'll be in the same boat)?

Are those two visions necessarily mutually exclusive?  I think it's possible to have a version of Sliders that has a strong voice, that tells important stories, that either has social satire or a stare into the darkest parts of our souls, and also has a character played by Jerry O'Connell who can be fun, funny, and an action hero.  It's an idea that's so simple that it's crazy we didn't think of it.

Have Jerry play Rembrandt.

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But I realize that he gets tested all the time and would have great doctors to watch over him...but he could get it if he isn't taking the right precautions.  Boris Johnson is significantly younger and appears healthier (I've seen pictures of him on a bike and on a jog and that's more than I can say about Trump) and he ended up in the ICU.  He's in several of the high-risk categories (heart disease, age, potentially pre-diabetic). 

I'm not saying.  I'm just saying.

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ireactions wrote:

Will Bruce Timm be handling the Arrowverse shows next year?

This isn't actually a crazy thought.  Well, the Timm stuff could be.  But I think with comic books, you could essentially do whatever you want.  We've seen reality-altering things before.  Maybe someone changes Earth Prime from 3 dimensions to 2.  Everyone is affected (and maybe no one notices).

But this would actually both work and could be pulled off on Legends.  I don't think they'd miss a beat.

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That's what been sorta frustrating about "Earth Prime" - it existed and obviously had deviations...but the deviations don't matter because everyone that matters (sorry Pied Piper) has had their memory of Earth 1 (or 36) corrected.

It would be fun to do a "Tales from Earth Prime" episode to show how things were different.  How did Kara and Flash meet?  It can't be the same way it was before.  I assume Superman would've been a part of every "crossover event" and probably a couple of other events. 

Supergirl is another big change.  Some of their storylines were done with the idea that they were on their own.  Did all her storylines happen on Earth Prime?  I mean, heck, is the Obsidian Platinum stuff happening in Central City or Gotham?  It doesn't seem to be happening if it is.

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I don't understand the Crisis/Post-Crisis changes.  So I get that Barry accidentally threw Pied Piper's boyfriend into some sort of weird "unstuck" situation...but did Team Flash never look into helping him?  Barry doesn't remember that timeline, but he was still Barry.  Hartley hates Flash, and helping him clears things back up.  So did Barry not even try?  He didn't have Nash, but Barry wouldn't just abandon someone.

Was Post-Crisis Team Flash less helpful?

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Grizzlor wrote:

The problem is scale, what Kushner has done just isn't big enough.  Biden for instance keeps saying Manhattan Project, which most people were not alive to witness.  That was a full-scale wartime effort, which this Kushner program is not.  There's really no reason it shouldn't have been either, as we're pissing away billions a day in economic losses.

Well, I wonder if Trump is actually trying to appeal to his base here.  Even though Trump himself has been emphatic about this virus, a good deal of his base still thinks that the virus is a hoax.  Or just like the flu (again, Trump has repeatedly said it isn't).

So I wonder if Trump has to downplay his response to it so that he doesn't lose the people who think it's a hoax?  As I've said before, Trump can't lose a single 2016 vote if he has any chance of winning.  He has to try to figure out a way to save the economy (his only accomplishment) while also doing something to fight the virus while also not doing too much to fight the virus. 

I think it's why Trump doesn't wear a mask.  It's also certainly narcissism, but Pence doesn't have that level of narcissism and didn't wear a mask.  I'm guessing he did it to appeal to the people who think it's no big deal.

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Let's not forget that there's a chance that Reade has been coached or led to believe (in some way) that something happened.  It would explain why her story has changed.  It's certainly possible.

https://www.spring.org.uk/2008/02/impla … n-mall.php

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Well, I can think of another way to make it work - bring a plague into the Arrowverse.  Make it an event.  Someone, a minor villain maybe, comes in and spreads some sort of metahuman virus (so wearing a mask wouldn't help and where Kara/Barry could even get it at super speed).  Suddenly, the whole Arrowverse has it.  All the shows can be about how you can be a hero without touching someone.  How you can stay connected while apart.  Stuff like that.

But even then I don't think it'd work.

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Parks and Rec did an episode last night that was all filmed separately on iPhones.  It worked as a one-off, but it's a crazy strategy and not worth it in almost all cases.

It sounds like the Arrowverse is going to simply cut seasons where they were.  It sounds like Batwoman and Flash are both going to simply restructure existing episodes as season finales.  In the case of Batwoman, I read an interview with a castmember who said he hopes that the other 3 episodes get shown...I don't know if they'd still film them or if they'd incorporate it into the next season or what.  Both shows claim they got lucky and both happened to end on "season finale-like" episodes.  But I can't see how that's the case.  I think it'll just mean that these seasons will bleed into the next season.  Sorta like how Sliders worked, ironically.

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I cannot understand what women go through and all I can really do is empathize.  Whenever I try to put myself into the mind of a young woman who feels vulnerable and scared and powerless, I struggle with the idea that I'm either using hyperbole or not going far enough.  I can walk to my car in a dark parking lot with a reasonable amount of likelihood that I'll be okay.  It wouldn't even occur to me where to park for highest safety, who to walk out with, or who to smile at.  Whenever I think of the female experience, I tend to think about the societal benefits of being a woman - free drinks and meals, the ability to wildly change/improve appearance with ease, what I consider to be deeper connections with other people and themselves, etc.  The rough stuff either doesn't occur to me (bad) or is too scary to consider (bad).  Having a daughter helps, but when I think about her, it scares me way too much to even consider letting her out into the world (luckily she can't even crawl so I have some time to get over that).

All that being said to say that I want women to feel comfortable coming forward, and I want society and the authorities to take every account seriously and perhaps even operate on a "true until proven false".  The problem being - how do you prove a "he said, she said" item true or false?  Barring physical evidence, it comes down to a simple "what you believe".  People can give heart-wrenching accounts, but we know that there are people who can perfectly pretend to have certain reactions and plenty of real stories to capture. 

Tara Reade could easily be a scared woman who is finally facing her assaulter.  She could also be a Putin fanatic who is making up a story for Russian money to help Trump get elected.  Heck, both could be true.

What sucks is that women need to believe her because if she's lying, it hurts all women.  We can't weaponize sexual assault for political gain because it hurts all women and gives powerful men an escape clause to get away with it.

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I wonder if the Democrats are putting off the investigation until after the election.  I think they'd be more likely to allow Biden to be impeached if they won the White House.  I think less Democrats are fanatical about Biden than Republicans are for Trump.  They might even win political capital by doing the right thing and removing their own president.  And if they had someone like Mayor Pete, Klobuchar, Warren, or Harris as the VP, they wouldn't even miss a beat.

pilight wrote:

It seems unlikely that a cell phone from one world would work on the network of another. Maybe they would sometimes and not others, as the plot demands.

When I sat down to write a spinoff/sequel series to Earth 214 (which I never got passed a half-written pilot and a plan for season 1), one of the ideas I liked was the idea of putting "satellites" in the wormhole to communicate from world to world (with the idea being that wormholes are a river connecting two worlds but that there's a bigger "ocean" that connects them all).

Might be a dumb idea, but I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work in the continuity of Sliders to allow them to communicate with each other no matter where they are.

ireactions wrote:

And Jerry can stuff it too! He's lucky to be allowed to eat at the crafts services table. His film career was a joke. His daytime TV ambitions have been a wash. He couldn't even get THE MUNSTERS to series. His big TV show, CARTER, produces 10 episodes a year. If he's allowed to play Michael Mallory for a few months of mortgage payments for a few days of work, he'll take it. He's learned not to be a diva and accepted his self-made lot as a working class TV actor.

Oh I completely agree.  My point is that a project like this needs a champion.  Someone has to go into a meeting with Universal and whoever and sell this thing until people give it lots of money.  Something like Ryan Reynolds did with Deadpool or tons of projects that are crowdfunded.  Someone needs to lead those meetings, and so far, no one else is doing that.  And I think if Jerry is going to spend his time championing a Sliders reboot, he's doing it to star in it.  If he's not, I'm assuming he wouldn't champion the project and he'd get whatever Michael Mallory-equivalent role on whatever pilot he can get on Paramount network.

You're right, though, because maybe he champions it and ends up screwed out of it.  Richard Hatch famously spent a ton of time and effort looking to get Battlestar Galactica revived.  He wrote novels and produced trailers to try and sell the project.  And it did generate interest in new Galactica - but not his version.  He ended up settling for a recurring role.

So if that's what happened to Jerry, so be it.

pilight wrote:

The genius of Sliders is that everything is potentially part of their multi-verse.  So, yeah, a reboot could run across any or all of the old Sliders either together or separately.  They could revisit the world with living flames or Caffeine World or Einstein World or whatever.

Yeah I was going to say the same thing.  They've already established that time moves differently on different worlds and that people can be the same person and look differently.  It can be a complete reboot in every way and still be part of the continuity.