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Biden and Hillary had a joint event today where she endorsed him.  First of all, Hillary is so much more likable when she's not running for something.  I don't know if she tenses up, but she shows zero personality on the campaign trail.  Today, she was lively and full of personality.  If she'd campaigned like she acted today, she would've won.  I don't think I'm the only one who thinks that since her ratings are usually the highest when she's not in an election.

Second, I thought Biden was good again.  He wasn't necessarily sharp, but he definitely didn't seem slow.  I know these are events that he can prepare for and are controlled by his team, but if he truly has dementia or if he's lost several steps, that's not something you can cover up.  My grandfather used to be quick and sharp, and as he got older, he got slower and slower.  Eventually, you could always tell.  I think with Biden, you'd always be able to tell.  I guess we'll see.  The good news is that I think a lot of the campaign will be virtual, and I still don't think there's a single undecided voter in the country.

*********

Regarding Tara Reade, I'm hoping Biden cooperates in any way he can.  I don't know if he did it, and I don't really know how it can be confirmed one way or another.  The Russian connections dirty up the water significantly.  And while it's bad for Biden, the Trump campaign really can't win points from it since they have high ground at all on that issue.

It depends on what's happening:

Is Jerry instrumental in getting it done?  If so, I think Jerry is going to want to star in it.  He's going to want to be Quinn.  Making him Quinn's dad wouldn't be enough for him.  Maybe you make him Arturo?  I don't know if that works.  I think in that case, you do what Halloween did, what Terminator did, and what Jurassic Park did - the sequels didn't necessarily happen.  You pick up with the four sliders who have been sliding for 20 years or they've settled somewhere.  The Pilot happened but the rest of the adventures aren't important or didn't happen.

If Jerry isn't involved, I think you do a full reboot.  Get the original four to do cameos (like in Ghostbusters 2016) but no other attachment.  But, and it comes down to this, doing a full reboot of Sliders is needlessly expensive.  If you're going to do a story about people going from universe to universe, Sliders as a brand has too much baggage and not enough cultural power.  You don't have to deal with rights or fans.  Make Coasters with Danny, Jake, Annabel, and Dr. Whitman.  Change enough not to get sued and you can do whatever you want.

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It's a little nuts that Donald Trump Jr. is harping on Biden's one accusation when his dad has an entire wikipedia article full of his accusations.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Tr … llegations

I'm not telling anyone to vote for someone they don't feel comfortable voting for.  Joe Biden is the nominee and if you think he's a rapist, you don't have to vote for anyone.  But I just find it funny that anyone thinks that there's one voter out there that would say "I believe Tara Reade.  Joe Biden is a rapist.  I'm going to vote for Donald Trump!"

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That's what's so stupid.  It was coming whether they lied about it or not.

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Interesting.  I do feel like more could've been done to think through some of these worlds.  I don't think there was ever really any thought that was (allowed to be) put into what really would've happened.  It really was "change one thing" and then redress the sets and guess stars. 

It's one reason I like the idea (which I didn't come up with) of doing episode pods in a reboot of Sliders.  Do one world for 3-4 episodes and really dig into that world.  It gives a chance for storylines to develop on each world, gives the writers a chance to really show the Sliders adapting to and improving the process, and it would allow writers the chance to build 4-6 deep worlds instead of having to come up with 15-20 per year.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Anyway, of course he's full on Trump, he is and was a giant hypocrite.  Sorry, but you can't be a devout Christian and look the other way at the kind of charlatan Trump is.  There's literally dozens of examples in the "Good Book" warning against the behavior and type of person which Trump is.

I just don't get this either.  He's a liar and an adulterer.  You can like that he fights against abortion, but I don't know how people can say that he's a godly man.  Just admit it.  He's a bad person but he "stands for" what you stand for.  Him being in power makes you feel safer or makes you richer or you like that the president looks like you and not Obama.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Hey SQ21, I have been to Texas, and though you won't get me there in the summer, I enjoyed the heck out of it!  Then again, I've enjoyed most places I've been in the USA.  Believe it or not, Las Vegas remains a dump of shit IMO, with Cincinnati not far behind, ha ha ha!

Ha, I've been all over the US as well and I agree.  It's why I hate the idea of thinking that 60 million people are racist assholes who want kids in cages and poor people dead.  I would prefer to believe that the majority of those 60 million made what they thought was a pragmatic decision based on either a single issue (abortion, guns, etc) or a hatred of Hillary Clinton or simply taxation.  That most of them would say "well Trump's an idiot but my portfolio had never been higher before this whole mess"

Maybe I'm wrong.  But I live in what's supposed to be a hotbed for Trump's America and I don't see it.  Maybe I don't want to, but I hope it's just that it's not there as much.

*************

Regarding Biden, I think any step in the right direction helps.  Even if it's a baby step.  And, again, would you rather have Jared Kushner in charge of something or *literally anyone else*?  That's the question you'd be asking yourself.

If you liked Bernie or Yang or Warren or whoever, that's great.  But being more liberal doesn't necessarily mean that more liberal policies would be approved.  I think the Republicans will still control the Senate after 2020.  Which means you're going to have to deal with McConnell or someone like him.

There's a UBI-like policy that's potentially floating around the House.  If it can pass, maybe Yang could pass his policy.  But I think it won't even get voted on - I think it's a nonstarter.  Just like Obama had to compromise, President Yang would too.  President Bernie would too.  President Biden will too.  How hard they'd fight might differ, but I don't think any of them would pass what they wanted to pass.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Well the reality is that most of the complainers, and there are not that many of them, will get their wish before long.  Florida is already opening stuff up, then Texas.

Well, as someone in Texas, I can tell you that we're sorta relaxing.  You have to remember that while the state as a whole is conservative, all the cities are not.  Even after the governor declared that we're slowly opening things up, the city of Dallas (near where I live) declared that you have to wear a mask outside your home.  I don't know anyone who's protesting and haven't seen any evidence of it happening near where I live.  There were protests in Austin, but again, Austin is a very liberal city so it's doubtful that it was people in Austin.  Probably from the more-conservative rural areas.

I know people love to rag on Texas, but the state is changing and the cities more-than lean left.  It's just a very big and diverse state that has traditionally been more conservative.  I live here and my sister lives in Florida, and I can tell you that we're taking it more seriously than they are.

And from my understanding, the "opening" of the state involves allowing pickup from stores and opening parks back up.  I haven't seen anything about going back to work, and my work has told me we aren't going back for "a while"

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Patton Oswalt tweeted:

Anne Frank spent 2 years hiding in an attic and we’ve been home for just over a month with Netflix, food delivery & video games and there are people risking viral death by storming state capital buildings & screaming, “Open Fuddruckers!”

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Jordan Peele is great.  Whether it's his horror or his comedy, I feel like there's a sort of liveliness and creativity in his work.  It's why I was so shocked at how dull and lifeless it was.  Even the episode he co-wrote (with Dark Phoenix writer Simon Kinberg) doesn't really do or say much.  The episode he's featured in outside of being the narrator doesn't do much more.

Now maybe Peele just performed as an actor in Blurryman with no writing input (like John Cho did, like Kumail Nanjiani did, like Zazie Beetz did, etc), maybe he just did enough writing on Nightmare at 30,000 Feet to get credit and the hit-and-miss Kinberg wrote most of the story, and maybe he had nothing to do with the writing of the other 8 episodes he narrated on.  It certainly feels like it.  But if he did much more than that, Twilight Zone is his first major screw-up in Hollywood after quite a few hits.

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ireactions wrote:

My response to my friends is: I prefer their disagreement. My opinions are MY opinions and I'd prefer it if you would get your own. No one should live in an echo chamber and no one should claim that a difference of opinion is due to one side being deceitful or mentally ill.

This is what's so dangerous about what we're seeing in terms of party politics today.  No party has all the answers to everything and as TF said, the answer is usually in the middle. Yes, the Republican party has, for reasons beyond my understanding, sold out in favor of Donald Trump.  But conservatism isn't evil.  It's necessary.  Either party unchecked would be a disaster, and differing views are important. 

When I vote, I usually vote for a handful of conservatives, a handful of liberals, and some independents.  I've never voted straight ticket, and I think it's dumb.  You'll never agree 100% with your favorite candidate and you'll never agree 0% with your least.  If you go to something like ISideWith and truthfully answer the questions, you'll find some common ground with both Biden and Trump. Always.  And while you might say "I'd rather have a room of people that agree with me 80% over the time than allow anyone who agrees with me only 30% of the time" - wouldn't you rather have the 30% guy there to argue for the issues you agree with him on?  Especially if it's an issue that you *disagree* with the 80% guy on?

And I think it's important to have compassion.  I may want Trump out of office, but I do sincerely hope that he does the right thing in this pandemic.  Even if the road he takes is a bad one, I want the road to lead to success for the nation.  I want life to go back to normal.  I want to be able to go to restaurants again and socialize and feel safe in public.  I want my daughter to be able to go back to daycare and have a normal life.  If that means getting Trump a win, that's fine.  I'm not going to root for this crisis to get so much worse to highlight his idiocy so that he gets crushed in November.  I don't support him as a person, but I support him as the president.  I'm rooting for him to do well.  I disagree with the path he's taking us on, but I'm hopeful that the path will be good for the country.

And I think there are too many people that are willing to compromise to win.  I think there are too many democrats who would be willing to have 2-3 million Americans die if it means Trump loses in November.  I think there are too many republicans who would be happy to be under Russia's direct control if it means Trump wins in November.

It used to be that both parties had the same goal in mind, and they just disagreed on whether or not to take the left path or the right path.  These days, I don't think they have have the same goal in mind anymore.

In fact, if Slider_Quinn21 agrees with me on anything after this, I'm going to make a special effort to find something to argue over with him. :-D

I'm sure there's plenty to disagree with me about smile

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Yeah, I don't know how much Peele was actually involved in the Twilight Zone.  He's listed as a writer on Nightmare at 30,000 feet, he's the narrator, and he's a supporting actor in the final episode (Blurryman).  But the episodes were so lifeless that I can't imagine he was involved even with story development.

There's an episode about a kid running for president.  It has John Cho and Jacob Tremblay - good actors.  The premise itself is silly, but there's tons of satire that could be done with something like that.  But they don't inject any life into it.  They don't work hard enough to sell this idea either in a crazy alternate world, and they don't make any effort to make it make sense in our world (the writers don't seem to know or care that he's not old enough to be president).  The "twist" (if you can even call it that) isn't surprising or scary.  The lesson is "don't let an 11 year old be president" - it's just dumb.

The finale wastes Zazie Beetz by just having her run around with something chasing her for 20 minutes and some lame imagery from the original series.

The Twilight Zone has a ton of episodes that could either be remade, reimagined, or even just reshot.  The Adam Scott remake of Nightmare at 20,000 Feet does a decent-enough job of updating the material for today.  The Forrest Whittaker version did a good job of updating The Monsters on Maple Street for a post-9/11 world.  There's a lot of things we could say about the world, and they only touched on some big issues (race, gender, class) in the most surface way possible.

If you can't make your own content, just borrow what Serling did.  Even if you mess that up, it'll still be better than what you gave us.

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Did anyone watch the 2019 version of the Twilight Zone?  I finally did, and I thought it was terrible.  Since it's an anthology, I pushed through.  But every episode was either boring or very predictable.  I didn't think there was anything interesting told or said - the themes were either dumb or way too heavy handed.  I thought it was an absolute mess.

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I've been watching some Biden videos to get a good idea of who this guy is.  I watched the Bernie endorsement video, and I saw what everyone was talking about.  Biden looked slow and tired.  He looked a bit lost at times.  Bernie is older but was much more lively and seemed to be leading the discussion.

Then I watched a town hall that Biden did yesterday with some essential frontline workers.  He seemed much sharper.  Much wiser.  A couple times it seemed like he might be struggling, but he seemed on his game.

I guess that's sorta what we're going to get from Biden.  He's going to be slow some days and sharp some days.  He's going to look weak and old sometimes, and he'll look experienced and decisive at others.  And, you know what, I think that's okay.  Despite what Trump thinks, I don't think the president needs to have total authority.  Having a president who needs to rely on his cabinet on certain days might not be the worst thing (and is the direct opposite of the current president who doesn't seem to listen to anyone not related to him).

I also watched Obama's endorsement of Biden, and it made me sad that none of the candidates resembled Obama at all.  I happened to watch a video on youtube of Obama and Trudeau from a few years ago.  It was inspiring and made me hopeful.  It'd be nice to have a guy like that to vote for.

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That's what's interesting - does the virus hurt or help Republicans?  The assumption has always been that any voter suppression helps Republicans (because Republicans vote and there are more Democrats in general).  But as I've said before, I don't know if it necessarily helps in this case:

1. Lower-income Americans tend to vote Democrat.  They're the ones who have "essential" jobs that force them to go out.  So a) going out is their norm and b) they're more likely to get the virus before November.  Those people will be more likely to vote in November - they're used to going out or would be immune.

2. There's been a lot of talk about Trump killing the post office to limit mail-in voting.  But that hurts rural America more than it hurts urban America.  Rural America tends to vote Republican.  Add in the fact that older Americans also tend to vote American, and since they're less likely to go out (because they're more likely to die), eliminating mail-in voting could take away their votes.

3. Republicans do tend to vote, but these are special times.  Will voters be excited to rush out to the polls to vote for Donald Trump after he's allowed the economy to tank and tens of thousands to die?  Some, yes.  But all the people Trump needs?  There's no Hillary boogeyman.  Biden is centrist enough that people can tell their Republican friends that the went out and voted for Trump.  But in the middle of a 2nd/3rd/4th corona wave, will older/wealthier Americans want to risk getting sick to vote for Donald Trump?  I don't know.

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I always thought they had their built-in explanation for the mutations - Hulk's snap.  He brings everyone back, but some people come back changed.  You could even blame it on Hulk's "mutation" messing with his mind when he thought about bringing everyone back.

For the vast majority of the X-Men, I think it works.  Most of them are kids/adolescents and they'd already have to deal with coming back several years younger than the rest of their classmates.  Now they have the ability to freeze or burn stuff on top of that.

For Charles and Erik, maybe you have them be powerless friends who get a second chance after the snap.  Charles was an inner city schoolteacher who came from money but never really used his family fortune to help anyone because he was too depressed about the accident that cost him his legs.  Erik was a former Black Panther who finally gets the power he needs to even the score.  Their powers are new, but their baggage isn't.

It wouldn't work for everyone.  Wolverine is a big problem unless you make huge alterations to the character.  Same with longtime mutants like Apocalypse.

But I think you could fix all that by saying that there were a very small number of mutants before the snap.  Charles, Erik, Logan, and a select few of the X-Men, but the snap made it where they were impossible to hide anymore.  Maybe you rationalize it by saying that Hulk was researching mutants in between Endgame and they were in the far reaches of his subconscious when he did the snap.

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That's what I don't get about Trump.  This could be his re-election.  All he would have to do is stop being self-serving and narcissistic for a few months, and people might respect him as a leader.  I think the vast majority of people are in favor of working together to beat this thing so he doesn't even have to be partisan.  Just listen to scientists, knock the crisis out of the park, and he could find his way to re-election.

But he can't.  He's too dumb and he's too narcissistic and he doesn't know how to act any other way.

I just don't understand supporting him.  I can understand wanting to stay in power, and I can understand supporting the politics that he (currently) stands for.  But I don't get supporting him.  It's so obvious that he doesn't care about the people that support him, and that he only cares about promoting himself and his family.

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What a doofus.

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Here's the problem with any sort of issue with Biden's mental capacity - if Biden is mentally incapable, there's a way to fix that problem (25th amendment).  The Republicans will *never* use it for Trump.  I think Biden would surround himself with people who would.  So if you say "Trump and Biden are the same person" - then at least let's go with the guy who has an out clause.  And even if they don't go that route and Biden stays for four years as a walking vegetable....again, Biden will fill the cabinet and the White House with responsible people.

I'm sure a number of those people will be progressives.  Some of the people we'd prefer be president would be in cabinet positions or advisory roles.  Want Andrew Yang in the White House?  He's only getting inside the doors if Trump is out.  If Yang or Mayor Pete has a high-level government position for four/eight/twelve years, then the "inexperience" argument that you saw against both those candidates goes away.

Our problem isn't all Donald Trump.  Trump put his frickin' son in law in charge of this pandemic.  He's considering firing the only expert we have left because he said something mean.  Biden would at least have doctors at the forefront.  He would at least have competent people working on this.  His cabinet would be full of people know, at least, have an idea of what they're doing.

Trump is bad.  And everyone he surrounded himself with is bad.  That's the difference.

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Yeah, I can see that.  We've mentioned it, but the plan originally was to do two movies. The first movie would've been about the X-Men fighting the Hellfire Club (bringing things back around to First Class) and showing the team working together.  From what I understand, the movie would've culminated with Jean getting the phoenix force, which would be the main problem in the second movie.  So, yes, you'd get more team building and character development.  The way I think it was proposed was to have the audience fall in love with Jean in the first movie and then break their hearts in the second one.

But like so many things (the Seer included), asking for a two-part X-Men movie at this point was a little crazy.  They might've been able to pull it off after First Class or even Days of Future Past, but coming off the clunker that was Apocalypse and coming up on the sale of Fox to Disney, it was crazy to think they could get a two-part movie greenlit. 

With all that being said, with Fox's waning interest and Kinberg having to edit a two-part movie into a one-part movie, I think the fact that the movie is as coherent as it is impresses me.

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I finally saw Dark Phoenix.  I actually sorta liked it.  I thought it was much better than Apocalypse and about as good as Days of Future Past.  The train scene, while stupid, actually had some fun parts as they got to really use the X-Men and showcase their powers.  The villains were dumb, but at least they didn't waste a ton of screentime on them.

I agree with the idea that they should've kept all these movies in the 60s and 70s.  I don't know why they jumped a decade for each movie but didn't make any attempt to age anyone.  Charles and Erik should be in their 60s, and they (obviously) don't look anywhere near that age.  And while I think that they did need more from the team to show that they're a team, I would've probably seen another movie from these guys, whether it was the original two-parter or some sort of follow up.

But yeah the movie covers way too much ground for one movie.  Genosha, which should be a big deal, is glossed over.  The X-Men as celebrities is sorta too.

It wasn't as good as First Class or Logan or X2.  But it was far from the worst X-Men movie.

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Yeah.  I agree with Bernie on a lot.  I've actually been (mostly) converted to believing in Medicare for All.  I think young Americans need help with student loans.  I like a lot of the Green New Deal.  But I think asking for all of that is too much right now.  Let's CTRL-ALT-DELETE on the government, get a fresh start with four years of Biden, and then we can try and do better on some social issues.  I think Biden can stop the bleeding on some key areas (including some social stuff and climate change), but I think it's just a little greedy to try and get a facelift while the doctors are trying to save your life.

I think Bernie walked so that someone like AOC could run.  But it was just the wrong time.  Bernie had almost 80 years to do a revolution.  He waited too long and, like Grizzlor said, didn't compromise enough.

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ireactions wrote:

Also, I don't think Slider_Quinn21 -- or I -- are saying that victory is a foregone conclusion (because it's not) or that Trump couldn't possibly win a second term (because he could) or that Republicans won't succeed in reducing voter turnout across the board (because they might) or that the Democrats won't destroy their own platform and campaign like they did in 2016 (because they've done it before).

But it is possible to defeat Trump. There is no certainty. But there is a chance and to declare that there isn't is as naive and foolish as declaring that it'll all work out with no effort or attention. Giving up never accomplished anything. And if Trump wins a second term, even more commitment will be needed.

I cosign this.  Trump can absolutely win, but he's absolutely beatable.  When I say "there's no path to victory", I'm absolutely leaving open the possibility that the Democrats (or something else) can create one for him.  Maybe Trump's hydroxychloroquine bet pays off and it actually cures coronavirus and this is all finished by November.  That kind of gambit could actually get the country behind him and solidify his support.  I don't think that will happen, but I can't 100% dismiss it.

What I'm saying is that if the Democrats do what they can, I just don't see it for Trump.  Is it going to be hard?  Yes.  Trump and the Republicans are going to do their best to snuff out the vote because it's their best chance.  They can't win the election fairly, and they know it.  Russia is going to do what they can to get Trump re-elected.  The media will play their part.  And the virus isn't going to help.

But the math is on the Democratic side.  For every person who can't vote because of the virus or who gets cheated out of their right to vote, someone else is going to have to step up that didn't vote in 2016 for whatever reason.  People that can't hold their nose for Biden are going to have to be replaced by people who couldn't hold their nose and vote for Hillary.  The people are there.  I believe the country leans Democratic (if not necessarily liberal), and that Democratic non-voters outweigh Republican non-voters.

And let's be honest.  A lot of Biden votes aren't going to be scared off by the virus.  They are out working right now.  They're risking their health every day at work, and they're not going to think twice about going to the polls.  Trump votes both sway older and sway white collar.  They're both more at risk and more likely to have avoided the virus completely.  They come from states that are more lax on social distancing and restrictions.

That's why I say Democrats have to go to work.  There's work to be done.  If this is as important to Democratic voters as I think it is, they'll come through.  And if they do, there's not a damn thing Trump can do about it.

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Exactly.  People that can will know they need to plan ahead and early vote.  People that can will know they need to get their mail-in ballots way ahead of time.  People that struggle with getting off work to early vote can try to make some sort of arrangement to get out early.  People that can't do any of that will need to plan ahead.

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Grizzlor wrote:

What happened in Wisconsin today was a prelude to November.  Tons of even blue states cannot handle an all-mail in ballot election in November.  Republicans have stacked the courts.  They will prevent changes to election laws to combat this virus and allow people to vote safely.  You can't even protest because they'll fine you for not social distancing.

So people will go vote.  They'll wear masks and gloves.  They'll wash their hands and won't touch their face.  By November, we'll have eight months of social distancing figured out - especially in blue states that are taking this more seriously than red ones.  If mail in doesn't work, early voting doesn't.  If early voting doesn't work, people will risk it.  It's too important to just let Trump win.

But if you want to just let Trump win, I'm sure he'd appreciate it.

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Ugh, all this doom and gloom.  I don't know why, but the left is really prone to hyperbole. 

Democracy isn't dead.  And if it is going to die, it won't be because conservatives won.  It will be because, without a major shift in ideology, it will be virtually impossible for a conservative to win an election.

I don't consider myself Democrat or Republican.  I'm disappointed in both parties.  The Republicans have sold their soul in a desperate attempt to hold on to whatever time they have left, and the Democrats have shown themselves to be woefully impotent.  I don't know why the Republicans got in line behind Trump, many of whom seemed to hate him a couple of years ago.  Lindsay Graham said that Trump would be the end of the Republican party, and now he supports him.  I understand why they want to consolidate their efforts and be one cohesive unit, but they had a chance to dump him and get behind a true conservative (Pence) and they didn't take it.  Maybe they thought insurrection was more deadly than lies.  I don't know.

But I don't think everyone was pied pipered.  I don't think people like Ted Cruz and Lindsay Graham changed their tunes.  I think, as always, they're playing politics.  And I think when this is all said and done, a lot of people are going to have massive regrets.  But we've given our politicians so much power and so much wealth, and they're doing everything they can to hold on to it.

Both parties have made massive mistakes.  The Republicans have refused to change.  They only appeal to middle class+ white people.  For a long time, that was enough.  Help the middle class and upper class whites stay on top.  But demographics are changing.  I'm not kidding when I say that Texas will go blue and very soon.  And when the Democrats have California, Texas, and New York, it's over.  There's no path to victory for any Republican.  And as demographics continue to shift, I think it's realistic to say that Republicans will get fewer than 100 electoral votes in every election without a major shift in ideology.

The Democrats mistake was thinking that the shift already happened.  We saw it in 2016 https://www.newsweek.com/will-republica … ain-483751 - this was a real thing.  And I think that's why the Democrats didn't take 2016 seriously.  It's why they just got in line behind Hillary and didn't do anything to 1) stop her or 2) help her.  Hillary was determined to get the presidency and no one got in her way.  But who cares?  The Republicans couldn't win.  So let Hillary have her day and they could move on in 2024.  The shift was done, and there wasn't anything anyone could do about it.  That's why they didn't even campaign in certain states that flipped.  Why go for the safe victory when they could humiliate Trump instead?  Why campaign when you can just throw lavish parties and hang out with Jay-Z?

If the Democrats want to win in 2020, they can.  They just need to get their head out of their ass.  Stop infighting.  Vote for the candidate that wins the primary.  And the Newsweek article will just become a fact.  And once that happens, the Republican Party is going to have to do some soul searching and realize that their ideology sucks and needs to be re-examined.  There's nothing wrong with conservatism, and unchecked liberalism isn't what this country needs.  But it can't just be a white party and have any hope of winning.

Hillary was a terrible candidate who ran a terrible campaign.  And she won by 3 million votes.  It's virtually impossible for the Democrats to lose the popular vote, and soon enough, it will be impossible for them to lose the electoral college.  So stop feeling sorry for yourself, stop looking for crooks and cheaters, and just do the work.

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Yeah, I suppose the only way to get back to filming for something like The Flash or Supergirl or Batwoman (just to finish their seasons) is if:

1. The summer heat significantly slows the spread of coronavirus to allow lessening of social distancing measures and allow for a few weeks of filming.

2. Testing improves in both quality and quantity so that *every* person on set can be tested efficiently every day to see if they have the virus.

Otherwise, I agree.  I'd suspect that we won't see newly show TV until sometime in 2021 after the vaccine comes out. hmm

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Unfortunately, COVID19 is going to delay the Supernatural finale for "a while" - and even though the CW is picking return dates for the rest of their shows (many of which won't get a true finale), no return date for Supernatural has been announced. 

Do we think maybe they'll save all the remaining episodes and air them as a "mini-season" to prep for the finale?

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I agree.  I thought his exit was done nicely.  Not only did Ray not have to die (like Stein), but he gets a genuinely happy ending.  I think he genuinely loved the Waverider, genuinely loved the adventure of traveling through time, and genuinely loved his fellow legends.  But he also genuinely loves Nora, and he wants to try something else.  It didn't take much to convince Ray to leave because I think, on some level, he knew it was time to leave.

Besides, Legends is equipped (kinda like Sliders) to go through massive cast changes without a beat.  Watch an episode from season 1 and the current season and see how hard it is to remember that it's the same show.  There's a quality to the show that makes it watchable above the cast.  And even though I'm still wishing the show had been an anthology series (especially now, as there are so many different playgrounds they could've played in by now), this show is probably the most consistently entertaining show now.

Best of luck to Ray and Nora, and best of luck to Brandon Routh.

************

Looks like we'll get a full season of Legends, but we'll get shortened seasons of Flash, Supergirl, and Batwoman.

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*

I think we're all missing the key point here - there's no undecideds.  This isn't a normal election where any of the issues, any of the debates, or any of the campaigning is going to matter one bit.  Trump could walk out on to the debate stage on a dog leash carried by Vladimir Putin, and it won't dissuade Trump voters from voting for him.  Biden could spend the debates in a medically-induced coma, and anti-Trump voters are still going to vote for him.  It doesn't matter.

What does matter is the math.  And despite wildly different candidates, Hillary and Obama (in 2012) got essentially the same number of votes.  Trump had a couple million more votes than Mitt Romney in 2012.  Those two million were essentially the difference between an Obama rout and a Trump victory.  And Trump needs all two million of those people if he wants to win.  I think there's risk that some of the Bernie Bros are going to jump to Trump (or a 3rd party/write-in) over Biden, but I think it's the same number of people who jumped to Trump (or a 3rd party/write-in) over Hillary.  This campaign has still left Bernie people feeling disenfranchised, but I don't think there's as much vitriol this year.  So I think the Bernie Bros are static.

Where this election will be won isn't "who do I vote for?" but "will I vote?" - obviously the the Trump hardcores will vote no matter what.  But how many of the 60 million Trump votes were hardcore Trump believers?  I think the consensus is that every Trump voter is alike, and I think that's just a product of the media.  I think there are people who regret voting for Trump and hoped that he'd be something different.  I don't think there are people who voted for Hillary and have been wildly impressed by Trump enough to switch.  Again, I don't think there are undecideds.

Trump needs 100% of the people who voted for him in 2016 to vote for him.  I don't even think he can survive with 99.9% as those 600,000 votes could be critical in several critical states.  He needs fiscal conservatives to vote for him even though the economy will be down.  He needs every Bernie Bro that jumped ship to stay "Bernie or Bust".  He needs every "#NeverHillary" Republican and Democrat to be just as hardcore about "#NeverBiden".  He needs every disenfranchised poor white to still believe that Trump is going to help him even though he's just as poor and disenfranchised as they were under Obama.

And I just can't imagine that all of those people still believe in Trump.  Biden doesn't need to do anything.  The Democratic voting base has been remarkably consistent in 2012 and 2016.  The people that voted for Obama and Hillary will vote for him.  He doesn't need to inspire people or unite the party.  And he doesn't need to court Republicans.  All he needs is for a *very small piece* of Trump's 2016 electorate to reconsider.  And I think enough of them already have.

* All of this is dependent on the turnout being anywhere near the same as 2012 and 2016.

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Yeah, that's my two concerns.  First is that he'll postpone the election - I still don't see any reason to believe we'll have anything resembling normalcy until we have nationwide vaccines - and God knows when that will happen.  There are ways to work around that and still have a "normal" election in November, but people are going to have to take advantage of mail-in ballots and early balloting (where they could sterilize everything and keep the 6-foot rule).

Second is that we get massively low voter turnout and the evangelical vote ends up being a much bigger sect.

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Man, I don't see any path to victory for Trump.  None.  Maybe I'm crazy (well, not maybe), but this whole mess is going to destroy him.  He'll keep his loyal evangelical base, but you have to remember that the Republican party, while much more united than the Democratic one, still has sensible people in it.  And I think, for the reasons you're saying, there are going to be enough people on the left side of the Republican party that are going to see Biden and think "Yeah, I can live with that."  Even if that's 0.1% of the people who voted for Trump, that could be significant. 

Then there are the people who vote purely on the economy.  No matter what happens, they're going to look at Trump with skeptical eyes.  Again, even if it's just 0.1% of people, it could be significant.

Then you look at the other side.  Even if the Bernie Bros revolt at the same rate they did in 2016, there are *tons* of people who stayed home because they didn't like Trump or Clinton.  A lot of those people were African Americans, and Biden does *very* well with them.  Add in the fact that you'll probably get more enthusiastic campaigning for Biden over what he did for Clinton, and it could be enough right there.

I think one of the most underreported aspects of 2016 was how many people voted for Trump simply because they hated Hillary.  Nothing to do with Trump's policies or his record or his white supremacy or his businesses or even her emails.  They just hated her as a person and didn't want her to win.  Even if "spite voters" were a super small percentage, we're not talking about large numbers of votes.  Clinton crushed Trump in the electoral college, and that's with a Republican party that was 1) fully unified and 2) highly motivated to vote against a Democratic party that was 1) highly fractured and 2) at least moderately unmotivated.

If you have a very vulnerable Donald Trump with a bad economy coming off disastrous leadership against a "Republican" who will appeal to at least some sectors of the Republican party?  When Biden just needs 14,000 votes in Michigan, 28,000 votes in Wisconsin, and 69,000 votes in Pennsylvania, I don't see it for Trump.  He'll get every evangelical vote from sea to shining sea, but I don't think that's going to be enough.

#FreezingColdTakes

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What did we think of the end of Picard?

I thought the storyline was very muddled, but I liked the characters quite a bit.  I think they took some chances, but I think they made a really entertaining series.  My biggest gripe was the fact that I felt so thrilled when we saw the brief look at Riker on the bridge of his ship.  I was so desperate for *any* view into Starfleet, and it was pretty great to get what we got.  I'd watch the hell out of a Captain Riker show set in this time period.  I don't know if Riker would want that, but we had so much build up to Riker becoming a captain that it'd be a shame if he never really accomplished much in that role.

I wish the series had ended with Picard going back into Starfleet.  Now that Oh is gone and the ban on synthetics is over, it would've been nice for Picard and Starfleet to make up.  And, again, I'd love to get some stories in the "modern" Starfleet.  I know Picard's crew wouldn't be very interested in getting back into Starfleet, but maybe he could use them as some sort of "hired gun" situation doing missions for the Federation or something.  And we'd occasionally get looks into other Starfleet ships - check in on what Bashir and Worf and LaForge and Tom Paris are up to.

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Oh I'm voting for Biden.  Don't worry.  And if the economy stays stalled and Trump keeps getting people killed, my Texan vote might even matter. 

I agree that looking for a savior is wrong.  But the idea of "anybody with a pulse" is also wrong.  We've turned the presidency into "the best of two bad choices" when it should be the best of us.  Someone we trust completely with the prospects of nuclear war, with taking care of our most vulnerable, and to leading the nation through crisis.  We shouldn't have to choose between two old men who may or may not be going senile.  This wasn't the intention of the office.

The problem is that politics doesn't attract our best people.  It attracts used car salesmen.  It attracts the corrupt.  So it ends up being the least slimy of two slimeballs.

*********

I still don't understand why anyone sees Trump as some sort of criminal mastermind.  If you watch his press briefings on COVID, he's so clearly a moron.  And not a Boris Johnson "I'm pretending to be a moron so you'll let me get away with stuff."  Trump is the opposite - he's a moron who is trying so desperately to look smart.  He's constantly trying to come up with things that sound clever.  He wants to be seen as smart.  But he's just so clearly an idiot.

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We shouldn't have to vote out of fear.  We should vote for someone that inspires us.  The last couple elections, it's been slim pickins.

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Oh I was trying to accentuate your point. smile

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When you only nominate people who were born before the Civil Rights movement, you're going to have people who didn't grow up with the benefits of the Civil Rights movement.

Want better candidates?  Vote for younger candidates.  Until then, we're stuck with old creepy men.

That'll be an interesting one.  I might have to join.

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I think there's been some introspective.  I don't think there's been nearly enough.  I thought Trump's election would be a wakeup call for the left, and it's been more of a light budge.  I think Grizzlor's right in the sense that they realized that Hillary was the wrong candidate, especially for that election. 

But I think the real test will be how Biden (or Bernie, I guess) campaigns.  2016 was lost because of one group and one group alone - poor whites.  They historically vote Democrat because poor whites have a lot of the same issues as poor blacks, poor Latinos, etc.  But the Democratic message ended up getting twisted as "white men are the reason for all America's problems" and that turned off poor whites.  That and, at the same time, the Democrats stopped campaigning for their votes.  In stepped Donald Trump who pretended to listen and it invigorated a forgotten base.  And invigorated the disgusting white supremacy we've seen.

In my opinion, the Democrats stopped talking to people and they tried to be too many things.  Their message should be simple - "We know you have problems.  We want to help."  And they can't just say it during elections - they have to mean it and follow through.  I think Donald Trump was a middle finger to politicians because Americans have lost faith in politicians.  We'll know if 2016 was a wake up call if we see any effort to gain that trust back.

********

All that being said, we need both sides to work together on this.  No more political bullshit.  We need to stand united against this damn virus, and we need to do it yesterday.  Democrats and Republicans.  China and the US.  Russia and Europe.  Everyone.  This is one of the big moments in human history, and we need to act like it.

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Oh, I don't feel bad for him.  I just feel like he felt like he found something on Legends and it sucks that he's going to have to re-define himself again.  Maybe not permanently, but I think, from what you'd described, Ray Palmer really filled a gap in his life.  And the writers sorta ended that part of his life.  I'm sure he'll be fine and will recover better and easier than when he lost Superman, but it's a weird thing.

What's funny is that I think Ray would fit on pretty much any of the shows.  I think he'd work well with Kara on Supergirl, he'd fit right in on Team Flash, and he'd be a welcome injection of fun on Batwoman.  This is, of course, assuming they did a different ending for him.  This one is hopefully definitive because I'd like Ray to live happily ever after.

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https://www.superherohype.com/tv/478677 … -departure

Considering all that ireactions has taught us about Brandon Routh, this made me sad.

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Not necessarily.  There's a town in Italy that essentially shut down for two weeks - the people that had it were quarantined and recovered and the ones that weren't stayed away.  Transmission is down to zero.

We can't exactly shut the country down, but if we can get the transmissions to slow down even a little bit, get the tests out there, then we could get back to normal in a couple of weeks.  The problem now is that there's a lot of confusion, no tests, and we're still in cold and flu season (so symptoms can be confusing).  When we get into spring, some of that will have worked itself out, and hopefully the medical community (with or without Washington's help) will be better prepared.

That's awesome, Grizzlor!

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pilight wrote:

If today's date was October 13, Trump would "postpone" the election.  He may yet attempt to do that anyway.

I worry about that, but he's so incompetent that he'd screw it up.  He'd try to postpone after the election was already over or he'd delegate to the wrong person and they'd screw it up, or he'd forget to do it.

COVID-19 was his big chance to show that he's capable of strong leadership, and he screwed it up.  He has no idea what to do with power, and he doesn't have any idea how to use it.

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I think Trump is done.  The tanking economy is going to lose him a ton of conservatives who just care about the economy (many of who will secretly be okay with someone like Biden), and the coronavirus debacle is going to cause a bunch of people who have faith in him to lose faith.  His base, brainwashed evangelicals, will still be faithful to him, but there aren't enough of them for him to win.

If I were a betting man, I'd bet "Trump loses in historic landslide" over "Trump wins" in any scenario.

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Well, I don't consider myself a Democrat.  I'm not even sure I'm fully a liberal.  I think if you were to ask me questions on a real "liberal vs conservative" chart, I'd be right in the middle.  I think the government should help people, but I also think the government is bad at helping people.  I think it's important to have a strong military, but I don't think any one country should be policing the rest.  I would like to live out the words from the Statue of Liberty, but I don't think we should give all illegal aliens a bunch of free things.  I think we need to fix our criminal justice system, but I support the death penalty when it's appropriate.

So, yeah, I'm probably cooler with Biden than most because he's more moderate like me.

My problems are twofold:

1. I think the republicans have sold their souls for Trump.  I don't really understand it, either.  Coming into 2016, the Republicans seemed to hate Trump, but the voters went with him.  And in the end, he helped them win the White House and both chambers of the Senate.   So I see why a lot of them, at least publicly, supported him.  He helped them win a lot.  But I figured as soon as he was in office, he'd have a short leash.  They got a guy that they liked as VP, and I assumed they'd mutiny the second he stepped out of line.  And they didn't.  Even after 2018 when it seemed like his brand was poisoned, they stuck by him.  Even when he did a few impeachable things, they stuck by him.  I figured they would've loved to have something like Ukraine on him in 2016 because they'd have a chance to say "we gave him a chance but he screwed up.  Now he's a *true* republican".  They didn't.  And I think they need to pay for that and learn that selling their soul wasn't good for them.

2. I think we need to stop the pendulum.  I think Trump is a direct response to Obama.  I liked Obama - I voted for him twice.  So don't think of any of this as an indictment of Obama.  But Republicans *hated* Obama.  So when it was time for the Democrats to pick their leader, zero Democrats ran against him (remember, Bernie was an independent, that was the big knock on him in 2016 "He's not even a democrat!").  So to republicans, it looked like the democrats were rubbing their nose in it "You hated having a black dude?  Now get ready for a WOMAN that you HATE."  I think that sentiment is a big reason why Trump won - I think (some) Democrats believed they were untouchable and they could elect whoever they want - why not someone that pisses off the republicans?  And so the republicans picked the guy that democrats would hate the most.  Someone who's against everything they stand for and loud and brash and nationalist and white supremecist.  Someone who would undo everything that OBAMA did.

The pendulum could easily swing back the other way to someone like Bernie who's further left than traditional american democrats.  Which I think is better than what we have now, but what happens when the pendulum swings back?  What if the republicans pick an actual Nazi who's openly Nazi and actually has the strength and charisma to trick the country into supporting him as a whole?

It has to stop.  And I think, in some ways, Biden is a throwback to the pre-Internet ways.  I don't think he's particularly exciting, but I think that's the point.  I think we'd have a boring four years.  And maybe in those four years, we can grow up as a country.

Probably not.  But maybe.

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I mean you want the wolf in sheep's clothing or the wolf in wolf's clothing?

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Well, I've been wanting to say some things, but I wasn't sure if we were going to let this post stay in exile with Informant.

I don't think Biden is the best candidate, but I like him for two reasons.  One, I think he can win.  I think he has overwhelming popularity with African Americans that Hillary never did.  I saw an infographic that showed, without a doubt, that black Americans could've easily elected Hillary over Trump (all by themselves) and didn't.  I also think the math shows that Democrats have complete control over the electoral college, and it's just a matter of whether or not they want to use it.  Trump won on a list of things that went in his way, and everything has to fall the exact same way for him to win again.  I just don't see it.

Second, he's a one-term guy.  I think his gaffes are, for the most part, harmless.  And I think he can get some control back in the government.  I think a lot of the exciting people we saw in the last several months are going to get big promotions in a Biden administration, and I think we're going to get some level of stability in our government again.  There will be people who know what they're doing in places of power, and that's essentially all I want from 2020-2024.

After that, we'll have another person run.  We survived four years of Trump, and I have no doubt we'll thrive a little better with four years of Biden.

All that being said, I'm sad that the race was still a bunch of people in their 70s.  Mayor Pete wasn't my favorite candidate either, but I liked something he said.  He said he was running because there are a lot of issues that are future issues.  Whether it's climate change or immigration or education or health care, a lot of issues have impacts 10 years, 15 years, 20 years down the road.

And in 20 years, Trump will be dead.  Bernie will be dead.  Biden will be dead.  Warren will be dead.  All these candidates will be dead.  So while I'm sure they are doing what they think is best for the future, they don't have to live with the consequences of their actions.  They'll be gone.  And Pete was saying that he thinks we should have leaders who have to stand and live with their consequences.  And as presidents get older, they're not going to have to do that anymore.  They can just be wild and crazy because who cares?  If the world burns down during their term, they had one foot in the grave already.

I'm disappointed in Gen X.  This should be their time, and no one seems particularly interested in stepping up.

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This wasn't the tipping point - I don't think the show should've ever been set in Gotham.  Let her get all the goodies from Bruce and then go somewhere else.

What bothers me about Duela is the fact that the show around her is disingenuous.  If they're going to do Joker's Daughter with no ability to say "Joker" or mention her father, then why do it at all?  Why not just invent a new character?  When Magpie is running around being Catwoman, shouldn't *everyone* be calling her a Catwoman ripoff?  If we're to presume that Batman had his career with his rogues' gallery, then we have to assume that his villains were well known and would be referenced in casual conversation.

Moving her is such a simple solution.  The show doesn't have to worry about pre-established villains, it doesn't have to worry about Arkham, it doesn't have to worry about ripoffs, and it doesn't have to create this weird private police department (separate from the GCPD?) so that we don't have to talk about the GCPD.  We don't have to worry about Gordon or Riddler or anything - she can just do her own thing.

The show just insists on doing things with an arm tied behind its back because, what, Gotham is cool?  Gotham is cool - and we just had a better show set in it :-/ Do your own thing now.

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They need to get Kate out of Gotham for season 2.  There's too much history in Gotham, and the show doesn't have the ability (contract-wise) to reference almost any of that.  For example, the antagonist in the most recent episode was Duela Dent - a character known as Joker's Daughter.  Everything was fine except for the fact that they couldn't reference Harvey Dent.  They refer to him as a beloved ADA.

So Batman was around for a while but never faced Two-Face?  Or was Two-Face never confirmed to be Harvey Dent?  It seemed like, based on Elseworlds, that most of Batman's villains are in Arkham, but are they all in there?  Are they still there?  Is that why Bruce left?  Is any of that ever going to be referenced?

If the answer to any of those questions is "probably not" then Kate needs to move to a different city with less history and less baggage.

************

Has there been any movement on either Superman & Lois or Green Arrow & The Canaries?

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I thought Jeri Ryan did a good job with an "evolved" Seven of Nine.  It bothered me at first because, in the trailer at least, it didn't seem like she was playing Seven.  It was Jeri Ryan or another character she's played. 

But in the episode, I saw evolution.  It's been 20 years, and she's learned to fit in better.  She was essentially a child on Voyager, and now she's an adult.  But I also read a different theory on that which I absolutely loved - the idea that Seven is playing a part.  She's taken her obsessive training, and she's created a character that she can play.  That character is laid back.  It's emotive.  It's badass.  It uses contractions. 

In the end of the episode, she lets her guard down.  She asks Picard if he ever regained his humanity.  He says yes.  All of it?  He says no.  That was Seven of Nine in her true self, and I think she sorta uses the Seven cadence in that scene.

I don't entirely buy that because I think she would've been "herself" with Icheb.  And maybe she was...I don't think there was enough there to know for sure.

I actually liked what we saw.  It definitely wasn't the Seven we saw on Voyager, but neither was Hugh from Next Generation.  I think both were logical extensions on what would've happened.  Part of me is a little sad that Seven didn't stay with Starfleet, and I'm sure somewhere out there Janeway feels the same way.  But I think this route makes more sense for her.  I think it's much more realistic that she'd quit Starfleet or be kicked out.

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For a brief instant in the Riker episode, I thought that Riker was going to be senile.  He abruptly screams at his daughter before realizing that Picard is there.  I was glad that he wasn't - I have a fondness for bother Riker and Jonathan Frakes, and I thought he was great in this one.

I don't know - the Seven prosthetic looks darker and less defined.  It just looks weird to me.  But I'm willing to throw it in the bin since it's a silly point smile

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Still enjoying Picard, but did Jeri Ryan's "Seven" prosthetic bother anyone?  I know that was several weeks ago, but it looked more like a Cosplay piece than the genuine article.  It doesn't even look like the right color, even in brightly-lit scenes.  I don't know why I'm bringing this up now, but it's something I've thought of a lot since we first saw the trailer.

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Yeah I hadn't thought about that.  In fact, we haven't seen Clark post-Crisis.  How much has Superman's story changed if Lex is known as a good guy?  Did Lex and Clark work together in the same way Lena and Kara did?  Also...and I guess this has to be asked...was Lex actually a good guy in the merged timeline and was simply replaced by a bad guy Lex Luthor?

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I liked that episode.  What if episodes are fun. 

But I don't buy that Agent Liberty and his cronies could've killed J'onn just because they know that Kara is Supergirl.  I also think we needed Tyler Hoechlin in that episode if we're being honest.  Either in the Lena and Kara are friends timeline or in the Lena doesn't know Kara timeline.

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But to your understanding, is the Alpha Quadrant still the way that it was when we last left it?  And the Federation, while probably pretty racist now, is still on star maps (at least) the same as it was?  Or do you think the entire Alpha Quadrant is in disarray after Romulus?

I honestly can't tell.

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SPOILERS FOR EPISODE 5 OF PICARD

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I'm sure no one is surprised, but I was sad to see Icheb die on Picard.  When I realized they were going with the xBs angle (ex-Borg) and bringing back both Seven and Hugh, I was hoping they'd find a way to bring back Icheb.  I liked both his limited storyline and how it impacted Seven.  I thought it was one of the few times that they did something character-based and it really worked.  And I know there was some issue with the actor and Anthony Rapp, but I was sad to see that not only was he killed, he was brutally killed.

And I get that Picard is more "adult" than Voyager, but it was just bizarre to have a character on Voyager (a show that was light on both death and violence) go out in such a brutal and gory way.  It's hard to connect the Seven/Icheb relationship we saw on Voyager ending the way it did on Picard.  It was disturbing, both because I wanted more from the Icheb storyline and because I have an emotional connection to both those characters.  Maybe people felt the same about Maddox, but the Icheb stuff stuck with me.

************

As a side note to that, I'm having trouble understanding the world that Picard is showing us.  Are we simply avoiding places where the Federation is, or is it something else?  All these talks of Fenris Rangers and the collapse of the Neutral Zone and possibly the reintroduction of money and the "criminal" acts of the Federation and Starfleet are making me confused on where the universe is.  It reminds me of how I felt watching the Star Wars sequel trilogy.  I just don't understand the overarching political situation in the Alpha Quadrant, and it's confusing me. 

I had a friend describe the Federation as having fallen apart.  And not just morally...literally.  Has that been explained?  Earth seemed fine.  I'm sure Starfleet is reeling from the destruction of Mars, but has there been any indication that anyone has taken advantage of that? All signs point to the Romulan Star Empire being tattered...at least more than the Federation or Starfleet.  I don't think Cardassia would be in position to step in.  We've heard nothing of them or the Klingons or anyone else who might've tried to reclaim Federation space following what happened on Mars.

From what I've seen on the show, the Federation is fine, and Starfleet is licking its wounds from Mars but still operating the same way they were twenty years before.  I'd love for the show to somehow interact with a Starfleet vessel doing normal Starfleet work so we'd have a general idea, but it seems like everyone that Picard has met is either an outlaw, a vigilante, or retired.

Is there a supplementary novel to this I can read, ireactions? smile

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Hmmm, it's possible that different reasons would create different consequences.  Beth didn't even know she was on a different Earth so I figured it was identical to how the people in the bar go there on Supergirl.  I guess we'll see.

I liked the Winn two-parter on Supergirl.  I'd sorta forgotten about him (even to the point where I didn't recognize him a couple of episodes ago when this plot point was teased).  I remember liking him, but I also thought the transition from Winn to Brainy was seamless enough that it didn't really matter.  But I think the actor and the character were actually a ton of fun.  I know he left on his own and doesn't seem terribly interested in doing these TV shows anymore, but I think he'd be a great addition to Legends.  Or heck, if they wanted to do a Legion show that he'd co-star on, I'd be interested in that as well.

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Maybe they'll address it later, but they couldn't wait a few more minutes until they were sure Alice was dead and everyone was safe?  I realize there's a good chance that Beth still could've been killed by Mouse's dad....but that wouldn't have been on Luke and Kate.  This bungle was.

And I'm much more upset about possibly having them wreck doubles than anything else.  Just because it was very unnecessary, especially on a show that was the least affected by Crisis.

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(1,684 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Wait....did Batwoman break the Arrowverse?

I understand the point of it all.  Why Beth survived the Crisis and showed up.  And why they couldn't have Beth and Alice on the show.  I get it.  But are we now definitively saying that two people can't exist on Earth Prime at the same time without dying?  And that the time has already elapsed on which people would die if that were the case?

So if the Brainiacs that survived Crisis hadn't sacrificed themselves, all of them would've died?  Both the bar owners on Supergirl are dead now (or one is dead and the other lived, I guess)?  If they're planning on saving Harry on Flash, as has maybe been referenced, are we saying both he and Nash are dead now?

If they were going to just have Mouse's dad kill one of them....why not write the same thing without the multiversal twist?  Because it doesn't really make sense.  Barry went to Earth-2 (with another Barry) and was fine.  There's a whole multiversal bounty hunter system where people jump from Earth to Earth.  They had a Superman jumping from Earth to Earth trying to collect other Supermen.  If Brandon Routh had stayed during the Crisis for longer, would he and Tyler Hoechlin Superman have both died?

And they can say all they want that the  Multiverse doesn't exist but it does.  The rules pre- and post-Crisis shouldn't be different.  And by saying "there can only be one" - that's a huge rule that I'm not sure the other shows can (or are going to want to) write around.

And Luke was right.  They were absolutely insane not to call Flash or Supergirl or *someone*  to help with it.  I know every week can't be a crossover, but no one has crossed over to Batwoman.  Having Brainiac show up would've been easy and effective.  Or Cisco (he's already left Central City so he could be in Gotham anyway). 

Then Luke was dumb.  They could've kept Beth in the Batcave for a year and no one could've tracked them.  You knew exactly when the timer was going to go off.  Wait until that is over.  Then deal with the Crows.

I'm sorry.  Parts were emotional and well written.  But I think they also made critically dumb mistakes that kill this episode for me.