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Well, it's hard for me to say because I liked those movies.  Plot incoherence doesn't typically bother me as much as character incoherence.  And I tend to give Marvel movies a pass because I feel like they know what they are.  DC movies, for the most part, want to take things more seriously (and, in turn, I take them more seriously).  Iron Man's character arc can be more fluid than Bruce Wayne because Iron Man doesn't take things seriously so why should I?

I do think they kept this one simpler than BvS and Suicide Squad.  There are a couple of detours along the way, but it's a fairly one-track plot.  Diana has a goal and works to achieve it.  I think, at parts, it becomes the "Wonder Woman and Steve Trevor" movie, but by the end, you know who the hero is.  The rest of the characters are pretty weak, but it doesn't really matter to me.

I did read a review that talked about how similar the movie is to Captain America: the First Avenger.  And I do think that the second half of both movies are somewhat similar....star-spangly dressed person with opposite sex military liaison goes across a warzone with a band of forgettable mercenaries to stop a German army with a supernatural leader.  I liked Wonder Woman better than First Avenger, if only because I think First Avenger might be one of the 2 or 3 worst MCU films, but I can see it.  Part of the film does feel like it wants to be set in WWII instead of WWI, but it doesn't really hurt anything.  To be fair, I also don't think the movie really takes advantage of the WWI time period...which could've made the movie even more special.

As we've had these discussions more and more, I look back to the MCU's start.  Iron Man is the best of them (and might still be), and the rest of the phase one movies are pretty meh.  Incredible Hulk is all but forgotten, Iron Man 2 is very pedestrian, the first Thor is fun but fleeting, and I already talked about First Avenger.  The universe didn't really "work" until the Avengers, and then (in my opinion), the movies started to feel connected and fun.

I think Wonder Woman is the best film of the DCEU.  If Wonder Woman is the DCEU's "Iron Man" and the rest of the pre-Justice League movies end up being equatable to the MCU phase one.  If that's the case, the DCEU will still be in phenomenal shape.

I don't have a lot to say about it, but Wonder Woman is great.  It's everything that DC movies need to be....fun and fantastical but still grounded.  Diana comes off as a character who is both insanely powerful but also very real.  In my opinion, it's easily the best of the four DC films, and if they can capture this tone with Justice League then it's going to be a huge success (critically and financially).

I'm also very interested in another Wonder Woman solo film set between this movie and BvS.  I wasn't sure what to make of Gal Gadot before this, and while Chris Pine does a decent amount of heavy lifting in this movie, she's great in the role.

Check it out for sure.

Finally giving Iron Fist a shot.  Let's see how it works.

I've been to Studio Movie Grill way more than Alamo, but it really doesn't bother me.  I have a friend who refuses to go to those places because of the distractions, but I don't really even notice the other people.  Sometimes the smell of food is a little distracting, but I usually like killing two birds with one stone and getting dinner while I'm watching a movie (instead of one, then the other).

I usually don't go for a movie that I'm excited about seeing or want to pay attention to everything (say, an Interstellar), but for something like Guardians or Wonder Woman....it's fine.  I probably won't be missing anything crucial if I look over to see the server for a second ha.

Well, they need to address where Clark is on Earth-1.  They've made implications that Superman exists in the universe (the biggest example is Rip Hunter's comment about "Men of Steel" in the Legends pilot).  So where is he?  Is he younger than everyone so he hasn't shown up?  Did his pod get knocked off course?  Or is he doing some sort of Red-Blue Blur thing in Metropolis and trying to stay off the radar.

But that's a pretty cool way to bring Kara in.

Anyone else find it weird that Sony is insisting on doing all these Spinoff (but not Spinoff) movies of a defunct Spider-Man universe?  They're moving forward with a Venom movie (with Tom Hardy) and a Silver Sable/Black Cat movie (a director was announced today).

I'm still not 100% how these movies are gonna work.  Is Tom Holland able to do cameos in this universe?  Will the Venom movie be in the same universe as the Black Cat movie?  Does anyone think a "Spider-Man's guest characters universe" is sustainable?

Don't get me started on the lack of communication between Team Flash and Team Arrow.  Couldn't Barry have fixed 99% of the problems this season?  Barry could've found William before Chase even knew what was happening without putting anyone in danger.

What's funny is that a couple lines of dialogue would fix stuff like this.  "Can't we just get Barry to super-canvass the island?"  "He's not picking up.  Not even Cisco.  Must be something with Savitar."  They do little things like that at times (when it was mentioned that Felicity was looking for something to power the cannon on Flash), but there's not enough of it to avoid question marks.  I know that there needs to be some separation (otherwise Oliver has no reason to do anything but investigate and point Barry in a direction), but for big events like this, they need to acknowledge that they're on their own.

Black Siren has a really bizarre sense of loyalty.  Evelyn was just evil for no reason.  I got nothing on either of their random decisions to be evil.  I also thought Boomerang immediately switching teams was strange.

I actually didn't like Chase as a villain.  I don't know why....it never worked for me.

Well, he had to go out with a win.  I know you didn't love his character, but I thought he had pretty good chemistry with the rest of the cast.  His character didn't hold up to much scrutiny (he never seemed like the King of Hell), but if you just took him at face value, he was fun.

Sheppard's sticking makes the most sense.  He had the most closure.

I already deleted it, and I forgot....was Tracy with the group at the end?  Was Julian?

I actually left sorta hoping that Barry was gone for good....that's sorta where his character has dropped for me.  And Wally wasn't as annoying in the second half of the season...I think being trapped in the Speed Force brought him back down to Earth a bit in a much better way.  I almost think it'd be better for the show if they didn't have Barry's baggage dragging it down.

Of course, they won't do that.  But maybe some time trapped in the Speed Force will do Barry some good.  We need him to FINALLY let go of his demons and just have fun.  Let Oliver be dark and brooding...let Barry be the light of the Arrowverse.

As far as the team goes, they should keep Tracy on board if Caitlin is truly gone (I thought her staying as Killer Frost was a really bold move).  I think Julian could be a good member too.  I'm also hoping Harry stays on too.

It was a very meh season.  We need a soft reboot.  Come back fixed, Barry.

I doubt Informant has kept up, but I'm guessing he wouldn't have enjoyed the Supergirl finale much.  A lot of sappiness, but also a *ton* of Superman telling Kara that she's better/stronger than him.

I actually thought it was pretty good.  The Superman/Supergirl fight was a bit understated, but I thought it was pretty well done for a CW budget.  All in all, I've been pretty impressed that I haven't really noticed much of a difference in the budget from CBS to CW (Metallo's awful suit notwithstanding).  Man of Steel is a more realistic depiction of the carnage that would be created by Kryptonian-on-Kryptonian brawls, but for TV, I thought it was pretty cool.

I also sorta love the little hints that Superman has been in an 11-season show, and we're seeing glimpses of it.  He drops hints of Warworld, and the Zod stuff is simply played off as if we already know who he is.  I thought that was a pretty cool way to do the Supergirl/Superman fight.  I don't love Tyler Hoechlin as Superman, but I think he works for the show.

It did feel like there were two factions in the writers room - the Men of Letters team and the Nephilim team - each that wrote out full conclusions...and then the show decided to cut both in half and air them both.  It did feel like different seasons.

They look weird, but let's at least give them the Pilot before we judge too harshly.  And remember, the Pilot will be on regular TV for free

Well, here's my thinking.

Getting her back risks getting Lucifer back.  I know she's family, but that's a huge risk bringing her back.  And, like I said, I feel like it's almost a happy ending for her.  She never really belonged, and she only felt comfortable hunting.  Now that's all she'll get to do.  Bobby seemed like he was at peace in that world (he never asks to come back with them), and I think she'd be the same way.  I agree that she'll probably come back (with Lucifer), and they probably needed a better goodbye if they were going to do things that way (where she chooses to go).  But if this is how it ends, it's probably the happiest of all the endings we got in that episode.

Wow, that's quite the finale. 

Do we think (SPOILERS) and (SPOILERS) are going to stay (SPOILERS)?  And were you upset that (SPOILERS) so so unceremoniously (SPOILERS)?  I also liked  the surprise (SPOILERS) of (SPOILERS) in the (SPOILERS)?

In all seriousness, I thought it was really thrilling.  And in the penultimate one, I was shocked at how emotional Dean's talk with Mary was.

Someone should've told the CW about how hard Bennett was trying to cover up the idea of him not returning because his return was in the sizzle reel released a few weeks ago.

I also don't know why they keep insisting on going to the Kirk era (it's still during his lifetime).  It's been covered....let's do something new.

I still sorta liked the idea that someone had back in the day about an Alpha Quadrant that's been devastated by an Omega Particle.  So simple space travel isn't simple anymore.  Set it in 2600 so that technology could be improved and no one from the TNG/DS9/VOY era would be alive.

It's also weird that they changed the uniforms again.  Although I guess the TNG/DS9/VOY era showed that they change uniforms like they change underwear at Starfleet.

Well, this is my next big concern.  People were talking about impeaching Trump before anything happened.  Before he took office.

And I'm worried about two things:

1. Is this going to be the new political world?  If we don't like a president or didn't vote for him/her, we're just going to demand impeachment at every turn for any reason?  Not just "I don't approve of the president" - "HE/SHE HAS TO GO!"

2. What if they get Trump on some sort of technicality?  Not necessarily a crime...something light and flimsy.  Doesn't that set a terrible precedent for future presidents?  Wouldn't hardcore republicans try the *exact same thing* with *whoever* the next Democratic president is?  Put pressure on them from day one....wait for any mistake...and strike?  Trump's awful....but wouldn't any president make a mistake under 24/7 scrutiny?

2017-2018 Lineup

Monday - Supergirl
Tuesday - Flash and Legends
Wednesday - Nothing
Thursday - Supernatural and Arrow

Black Lightning starts midseason, but I just read that it won't be an official part of the Arrowverse?

And, with that, the Sliders BBoard disappeared. 

But for those of us what lived and died in them furious days, it was like everything we knew was mightily swept away.  And no matter what they did to build the internet up again, for the rest of time, it'd be like no one even knew we was ever here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-8Lu7MRjQs

SPOILERS / FINALE SPECULATION ON THE FLASH

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So I think we can agree that HR is the one that died to prove that he had a purpose?  Could that possibly mean that Tom Cavanaugh is not coming back next year?  His "scientist" role replaced with Tracy?  Or would we get a 4th (5th?) Wells?

I heard an interview with James Gunn.  I figured he'd sound exactly like Sam Rockwell (because he looks like Sam Rockwell sorta), and he doesn't.  It freaked me out a bit.

I also thought GOTG Vol. 2 was fun.

My biggest problem is the loss of civility in most public debates.  It wasn't too long ago that people could have a political discourse, disagree, and try to find common ground.  Nowadays, I don't think there's even any attempt to find that common ground.  Or, frankly, any desire to.

(None of this applies to anyone here, I'm mostly talking about what I see on social media).

People used to dislike the other party.  Now they hate them.  People used to tolerate people who voted differently.  Now there's all kinds of slurs and insults.  Look on Twitter or Facebook and try to make a partisan-like comment.  You'll either be told about Trump's fascism or Hillary's murders or gay sex with Vladimir Putin or Bill's rapes.  If there was ever a topic, it gets derailed immediately.

I saw a discussion on health care fall apart when two people with handles that were very anti-Trump got mad at each other over whether or not Hillary was a monster.  They were basically on the same side of the argument, but since one was for Hillary and one was for Bernie, they could no longer find common ground.

It's been happening for years, and I'm not sure who fired the first shot.  My earliest memory was the vitriol that people had for George W, but I'm sure it happened before that.  But the hatred from the left for W turned into hate towards Obama from the right.  This election was hyper-negative from day one, and most people were voting *against* someone instead of voting *for* someone.  We were told that anyone from the coasts are elitist assholes and everyone from the rest of the country are racist idiots.  People lost friends and exiled relatives.

What's scary to me is, on both sides, how eager people are to hate.  To threaten violence.  To *incite* violence.  To the point where we could have an American president killed with zero mourning.  Half the country would celebrate and half would be angry.

I honestly don't understand this sentiment.  Is Trump doing damage to the country?  Probably.  Is it potentially dangerous across the world?  Probably.  I can't answer "yes" to either of these questions because I don't consider myself well-read enough to definitively answer either way.

But unless someone launches nukes, nothing is irreparable.  Trump is a shitty president.  But we've had shitty presidents before.  Loads of them.  We've had a celebrity president before (Kennedy and Reagan, in their own ways, were celebrities like Trump).  We've had crazy presidents (Andrew Jackson was ten times crazier than Trump, and I won't allow an argument to be made for the contrary).  We've had presidents who didn't know what they were doing and just wanted to be president because it sounded cool (Warren G. Harding just wanted to play poker with his friends).

The Republic survived.  And it will survive Trump. 

People always want to believe that we live in the X-est time in history.  For millennia, people have believed that they're living in the end times.  But, more these days, we want to talk about things in hyperbole.  "2016 was the WORST YEAR EVER" "Race Relations are the worst they've been since the CIVIL WAR"  "Bush/Obama/Trump is HITLER"  When, in all those cases, it's hyperbole.  2016 probably isn't in the worst 1000 years ever, race relations are much better than they were in a lot of people's lifetimes despite everything that's happened, and there was one Hitler and he's dead.

Trump's an idiot and an embarrassment, but I have trouble calling him a fascist since he's so....ineffectual.  The Muslim ban was pretty fascist, but it failed.  People rose up against it, and it didn't work.  He tried to repeal ACA, and it didn't work.  He's trying again, and it....probably won't work.  There's no wall or any real movement on the wall.  Hillary isn't in prison.

He has a Republican Congress, and he's accomplished...almost nothing?

Wally absolutely should lose his powers.  Just erasing Savitar's memories did that.  Julian was still there so presumably that....still happened?  I have no idea.  Like I said, their time travel logic was worse than usual this week.

As far as I'm aware, Time Remnants are exact duplicates of the person.  That's how it's always appeared (Zoom, Thawne, and Barry)

http://arrow.wikia.com/wiki/Time_remnant

I haven't watched, but Kripke did say he'd work to get it picked up somewhere else.  Would it work on the CW?  I wonder if he still has enough equity there?

Gotham renewed for Season 4!

And....it's cancelled.