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Grizzlor wrote:

Episode 8 will I guess be cut as they had intended, but I believe she'll have to be written out in Episode 9 fairly early, which was not the plan.

I don't know about that.  Peter Cushing died 22 years ago, and he was still a major player in Rogue One.  I imagine they could use the same technology they used for him for Carrie.  I mean, heck, they've already got the model made from Rogue One.  Age it appropriately, and she could be the star of Episode 9.

I'm not saying they should, but they've had no problems resurrecting actors so far.  I don't see why they'd make an exception this time.

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I actually liked Rogue One quite a bit.  It didn't really have much of a story (and the Force Awakens sorta devalues all the sacrifice wink ) but I thought it was a lot of fun.  Reminded me a bit of DS9 to the rest of Star Wars' TOS/TNG.

And the last five minutes might be my favorite five minutes in all of Star Wars.

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Well, I think Smallville was hamstrung by the fact that it never knew what it was.  It was created when the network was more "teenage love" than anything else, and so the show was dominated by relationship issues.  Clark couldn't worry about his dead classmates because he had to worry about what Lana said or how to get her into his life.  Even when the show moved to a more serialized show with less "freaks of the week", it was more about love triangles than superpowers.

Then there was the rules.  "No flights, no tights" held strong for a while until Clark finally flew in just the fourth season.  Then the "no tights" rule was all that was left, and that seemed to be kept for arbitrary reasons.  When you have Green Arrow and the Justice League essentially wearing costumes, Clark's ever-changing wardrobe of jackets seemed disingenuous.  By the time they finally allowed the suit, they didn't have access to the whole thing so could only show the chestplate or on a mannequin.

Then there were the times when the show wanted to be more than it was.  It had a season building up to a fight with Doomsday until they realized they couldn't do Doomsday.  The same thing happened with Darkseid.  It reminds me a little bit of season 5 of sliders, where the creative team built up to an epic finale but then realized that they were a Sci-Fi show that couldn't do feature film - level CGI work.

I have fond memories of Smallville, and I've recently stuck my toe back in the water when I read a clickbait article about all the heroes that were on the show.  It was essentially the Arrowverse + the DCCU way before its time.  For all the big deal made about "Heroes vs Aliens", Smallville had that many heroes on screen quite a few times.  Outside of Batman and Wonder Woman, they showed just about every DC hero possible from big (Flash, Aquaman) to small (Booster Gold, the Wonder Twins).  From the JSA to the Legion.  The amount of ground it covered makes it look so ambitious for the time, and it's no wonder that the Arrowverse is its legacy.

It's one reason why I'd like to see Smallville brought into the Arrowverse multiverse somehow.  Without Smallville, there'd be no Arrow or Flash or Legends or Supergirl.  There might not be a Gotham or even an Agents of SHIELD.  They showed that superheroes worked on the small screen.

And while the show was a muddled mess, I still love Tom Welling as Clark and Michael Rosenbaum as Lex.

It was awesome to participate in this.  There's so many references, so many nods, and so much thought put into it. And....so....much...heart.  You can tell how much these characters mean to ireactions and how badly he wants for a happy ending for them.  It isn't exactly Torme's sliders....or Peckinpah's.  There's Dan Harmon and quite a bit of Chuck (a show I haven't seen but could feel nonetheless) and just a ton of himself poured in.

As an editor, there were things that ireactions was willing to change immediately, things he was willing to compromise on, and things he flat-out refused to touch.  All in all, he had a vision that he wanted, and I'm fairly certain he matched that vision up as closely as possible.

All things considered, I think this will go down as one of the grandest and finest pieces of Sliders fanfiction that exists.  Definitely worth your time.

2,525

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ARROW spoilers

S
P
O
I
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S

Bah, I forgot about Earth 2 Laurel being on Earth 1.  Thanks, spoiler promo!

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Informant wrote:

We seem to be under the assumption that someone would automatically sell their energy source to whatever random company offered to buy it. If I had the holy grail of technology, I wouldn't sell it for any amount that these companies could afford. Every company in the world would rely on that invention!

If the person who makes that discovery is easily duped into selling a multi-billion, or even multi-trillion dollar idea after decades of seeing this storyline play out in film and television, they don't deserve to see their invention out in the world.

I'm guessing the energy companies would buy out / hire the person before they get far-enough.  I don't think magic-bullet clean energy can be developed in someone's basement.  So the person gets hired by Exxon under the impression that they'll be innovating, and then their project would be slowly mothballed before they could figure it out.  Then they could try and go somewhere else to do it, but....again, they'd have trouble finding a place to get it done.

They could go to the scientific community but....again, funding.  Everyone would say they'd want clean energy, but who'd pay for it?

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The problem is that these people have all the money.  Instead of letting you sell your solar power invention, they'd buy it from you (paying you basically whatever you want) to buy it.  They'd say they'd be working with it, but after a while, it'd go away.  Cheap energy doesn't do anyone in power any good - the companies can't sell it, and the government loses a ton of lobbying money.

It's the same with pharmaceutical companies.  It's cheaper to cure diseases than to treat them.  It's why medicine is a huge industry, and we haven't cured much of anything in the last half century.

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Well, the problem is that these companies have no incentive (in fact, the opposite) to innovate.  The baby boomers aren't a real forward-thinking generation, and the cash is still rolling in.  If someone invented a clean, cheap, renewable energy, it'd be bought and mothballed before it ever reached the public.

The problem with ripping Trump for his connection to the oil companies is that Hillary was right there with him.  http://fortune.com/2016/09/07/hillary-c … donations/

Once again, we had two absolute garbage candidates.

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http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/politics/ … index.html

Democrats want someone new.  The establishment is still in charge.  Get excited for another 70+ white person no one wants to run in 2020!

2,530

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http://www.superherohype.com/news/38786 … r#/slide/1

Why does Flash's costume have huge patches with no red on them?  The armor makes sense (and I like the look) but the big sections of black look really odd to me.  It's like he was halfway done painting his costume and got distracted.

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I absolutely agree with that.  There probably isn't.  But that doesn't mean that the studio won't want to rerelease next year or prior to Suicide Squad 2 a re-edited cut with the Joker stuff.  It happens all the time.  There've been about 20 versions of Terminator 2 smile

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Well, we know the shots exist, and if they weren't in the extended cut (and I read they weren't), then WB will definitely want to make money off them.

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Well, with Suicide Squad, it's almost certainly just the first extended cut.  This one doesn't include the Joker stuff, so there'll be a "Joker's Wild" edition at some point.

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I mean I guess if they're okay with releasing a butchered movie and then hoping true fans will buy the "actual" version on Blu-Ray.  But you gotta think if Wonder Woman and/or Justice League does the same thing, it's gonna end up hurting the bottom line.

I'd think they'd create a site - not a subscription site.  But just a site with only DC stuff.  You log on and you pay - either a one-time fee to own it or a smaller fee for a one-time viewing (that you could do multiple times).  Blockbusters are probably going to move in that direction, anyway.  They're already creating a system that would allow you to download new films the day they're released (for something like $50).  I've read speculation that movie theaters could go away in the next couple decades as streaming becomes the norm.  DC would just be ahead of the curve.  Multi-billion dollar TV shows smile

And do international audiences not do streaming services?

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I wonder if they could've done something sorta revolutionary and make it into a miniseries of sorts.  Distribute it themselves on their own website.  Then it could've been 4 hours, and people could watch it in episodes. 

I have no idea what it would cost to make that work financially, though.  $20 a viewing?  More?

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pilight wrote:

Trump is not going to run again.

The Democrats better hope that he does.  Beating Trump should be (and, honestly, is) a lay up.  They just went with the one candidate that could be seen as a lesser evil.

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I don't think the Russian hacking had any effect on Senate races.  People kept saying that Trump was going to hurt Republicans down ballot, and that didn't happen.  I don't think it was because Trump was popular, but I think it's because pundits think too much of the connection between the president and down-ballot candidates. 

The senate races were close, but they lost.  The presidential election was close, but they lost.  It was a devastating election, and the people in charge should be gone.  They bet everything on Hillary Clinton, and they need to pay the price.  The fact that everyone in charge still has their job shows just how corrupt the party leaders are.

What's crazy is that Democrats should be furious at their party leadership, and they're not.  If people were protesting Pelosi and the DNC, they'd get fresh leadership.  Hopefully they turn their attention from Trump and focus internally, or they're going to run into the same problems in 2018 and 2020.  And hopefully the party can go back to being something that people believe in.  Because, right now, it's hard to tell the DNC from the RNC.

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From what I've read, Pelosi made some mostly-ceremonial concessions, but she's still very-much in charge.  From the research I did, I don't think much of anything has changed.  The faces of the party are still the same today as they were when they decided to use every ounce of power to force through Hillary over Bernie Sanders.

Whether or not Hillary won the popular vote, the Democrats got destroyed in this election.  There was talk before election of the Democrats winning the House, and that ended up being laughable.  They didn't do nearly as well as they thought they would in the Senate.  The election was an absolute disaster, and if they don't fix it, they're going to be in a worse position in the midterms.  And those are midterms that a) Republicans traditionally do well and b) were already projected to be bad for Democrats.

The good news is that whoever the Democrats choose will be the frontrunner against Trump unless Trump exceeds expectations.  The problem is that Trump's expectations are incredibly low.  So if the country doesn't literally catch fire and if Trump isn't impeached, the Democrats would be wise to actually hold a real primary this time.  If they throw out more old white people, I can't imagine the black vote will show up in 2020 either.

At the end of the day, the Democratic Party was shown to be *very* corrupt.  Obama is excluded from that discussion because they didn't want him in the first place.  Hillary was supposed to be the nominee in 2008, and Obama was only able to run because no one thought he had a chance.  The deck was stacked against him like it was for Sanders, but Obama was able to overwhelm the establishment.

Instead of learning from Obama and his victory, it was very clear that the establishment just cared about making sure Hillary got the nomination.  And once that happened, they were woefully unprepared to accomplish anything else.

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Has the Democratic Party done anything to fix whatever mistakes led to them losing so much?  Has anyone quit or been fired? 

Or is it just going to be four more years of complaining while not fixing anything?

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Ha, I mean I don't even like the show that much.  I'm just thinking that if she got another job, she's probably going to die on the show.  I honestly wouldn't care either way smile

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I mean, it's definitely possible.  She doesn't have a huge role (like DMD, I had to check to make sure she was alive and she's in the final shot of the midseason finale), and she could definitely be rolled back.  If it were any other show, I'd guess that.

But it's Walking Dead, and people die all the time.  It's probably easier for everyone involved if they just kill her off.

2,542

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We are getting a Suicide Squad sequel, a Harley Quinn spinoff called Gotham Sirens (with Megan Fox possibly as Poison Ivy?), and a Deadshot sequel.

Suicide Squad must've been a much bigger success than I thought.  I'm also entertained at the idea of Informant having to praise Megan Fox's work as Ivy wink

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I guess Sasha ain't long for Walking Dead, despite what the news outlets are saying.

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Damn, wouldn't it have been great if the Democrats had taken this election seriously?

2,545

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Wow, Arrow's midseason finale had some legit surprises on a series of shows that have been pretty bad about surprises.  The Evelyn stuff wasn't one because that was spoiled for us, and I don't particularly care about her character.

But Oliver killing Billy?  I was assuming that Billy *was* Prometheus (and he still might be), and tricking Oliver into killing him is a pretty great move.  I'm hoping that Prometheus is someone else because it sorta kills the move if he is Billy.

Then Laurel.  It can't be Flashpoint, right?  Because no one would remember her dying if she didn't really die.  I was thinking it might be Legends that caused her to come back, but it couldn't have been them either, I don't think.  It has to be Prometheus, but I'm not sure how he'd pull that off.

I was sorta annoyed by all the references to Flashpoint and the crossover, though.  I get that they'd probably all still be talking about it, but it felt a bit forced.

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ireactions, I've been really busy the last few days.  I'm going to look at your pages tomorrow smile

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Informant wrote:

I never got a good look at the newspaper article from the future. Does it still reference Queen Industries?

Not sure, but it still references Starling City.

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Is there a chance that "he" is Iris?  He's writing a book, doesn't know any of the science, and is helping Wally train (like in Flashpoint).  Maybe future Barry is hiding Iris as HR to protect her from Savitar?

(Although if Savitar knows she's a fake Wells and no one else does, that wouldn't make the most sense).

And I want to say TF was right....again.

2,549

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Did you notice Ford's handshake with Bernard at the end?  They say you can identify a host by their handshake....


....the Ford that died was a host.

2,550

(723 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I thought they confirmed that Yeoh was the captain?

I also wouldn't necessarily mind a West Wing (at least, the original concept of the West Wing) approach, where it's more about the staff and the captain is more of a minor character in the background.

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I actually thought the Lucifer storyline has been pretty good, and I thought Rick Springfield did a pretty good job in the role.  I liked that Lucifer is just emotionally distraught and doesn't have a master plan.  I think it's a pretty cool idea for a villain.

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Yeah, I think they tried.  It does sorta remind me of Doomsday, where the writers had this cool idea to do this legendary Superman episode and kept thinking how cool the finale would be....and then it looked terrible.  Or in the finale where he was going to fight Darkseid and it just ended up being Clark beating up Lionel.

The problem with these crossovers is who they can fight that would be reason-enough to bring in the others when they seem to be fighting crossover-required villains all the time.  I mean, Barry is fighting a *god* - wouldn't he need Supergirl's help with that?

If they do one villain, Supergirl would basically be fighting him/her/it herself while Oliver shoots arrows and Mick shoots fire at him/her/it.  It's the problem with Justice League stories - what villain can both Superman and Batman fight?

Now that I think about it, maybe the crossover should've been everyone vs. Kara.  She shows up to visit Barry, and then she gets mind-controlled by whoever.  And, clearly, she dominates.  Flash recruits everyone, and they go off to fight.  End of Flash, Kara kills them all.  Everyone is dead.  End of episode.

Arrow picks up with Oliver in the afterlife.  The episode could basically be the same as it was.  Instead of fighting their way out, Oliver is torn apart from it when he realizes that the Legends have gone back in time to undo the Aberration.  The Legends episode, they find a way to fight the mind-control person instead of fighting Kara.  Save the day.  Kara flees back to her home world.  End of crossover.

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Well, that would make sense.  I heard about it on the Weekly Planet, which is an Australian-based podcast.

2,554

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I watched the rest.  I thought it had a lot of heart.  It was pretty cool that the epic crossover coincided with Arrow's 100th episode, but that episode was much more a love letter to Arrow than a meaningful part of the event.  I actually really liked Wild Dog's anger towards metas, and I could see that being a legit fear among humans.  I actually was a bit upset that he backed off it so much.  Other than that, it was just an interesting episode of Arrow. 

And yeah, there was no Slade and no Tommy or Roy or even Ra's.  But most of the key emotional players were there, and they, at least, acknowledged Deathstroke's significance.  This season has been pretty good about showing how far Oliver has come, and I think it's benefited a bit from reaching back into the history of the show a bit.

The Legends stuff was interesting.  I liked that they actually incorporated a Legends-type storyline in and went back in time, although the execution was a bit weak.  I felt like Oliver's little speech to Kara was bizarre and didn't make a whole ton of sense at the time.  And while the final fight scene was cool, it lost a bit of its muster when you had Oliver/Heat Wave/Vixen/ATOM/etc fighting a handful of Dominators while Barry and Kara took care of hundreds (thousands? millions?) on their own.  That point alone maybe shouldn't have been glossed over.

And I actually really liked the little mini-story about Stein and his daughter.  Pretty sweet, actually.  I like Stein on the show, but I think he needs to go home.  Maybe he can stay on a Wentworth Miller - like contract and guest on some of the other shows.

I think the leads all worked pretty well together.  Melissa Benoist fit right in (and I have such a crush on her).  I actually wouldn't mind seeing her interact with Oliver more - I think they're trying to set something up there (not necessarily romantic).  And with Cisco's device, I'm guessing we might see more interaction this season (besides the Flash/Supergirl musical episode).

It also basically clinches that Supergirl ain't crossing over anytime soon.

2,555

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To be fair, he could've created the spark and handed it to someone great.  We don't know.  I was looking forward to a Fuller-led series, but whoever is running it could do a great job.

I also heard that it's going to also be shown on Netflix so now I don't have to steal it smile

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http://www.superherohype.com/news/38689 … overy-exit

Fuller won't be involved at all.

2,557

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Yes.  I would.  Email me smile

(If you already did, I haven't checked wink )

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Well, it'd be easier to rework her show if she was in Earth 1, but I don't know if that's the way to go.  It's fun to have her in the universe, but it causes issues.  I don't think she'd really work on Arrow...she'd make Oliver pretty irrelevant (like how it's hard to do too much Batman/Superman crossover).  She and Barry work well together, and I think she'd actually fit pretty well on Legends.  But even on Flash, she was a bit out of place because she could decimate the whole team on her own.

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Hahah, I really do think it's the way it should go.  I also think, when Arrow ends, Stephen Amell could sign a similar deal.  Probably not possible since he'd demand "star" money, but it'd certainly be fun for him to continue to pop up in the Arrowverse even after Arrow is over.

And Legends would be a hitch, but not as much as you'd think.  They already do less than the normal shows, and their characters could still float around for 5-6 episodes of the other shows (and, of course, the Arrow/Flash/Supergirl characters could still pop up on their show.

Until they figure out the universe thing, the hardest would actually be Supergirl.  Since they don't seem to have any characters that overlap (notice that Earth 1 and Kara's Earth have a different president).

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Informant wrote:

After watching the crossovers, I was wondering if they should just have the supporting casts float from show to show each week, while following the leads on their own shows... like you'd have Oliver each week, but he could have Cisco and Felicity by his side, while Barry has Caitlin and Diggle, and then the next week, Barry's undercover with Thea or whatever.

Legends would be the only hitch. It doesn't have one lead, so it would be difficult to add them to the mix.

Didn't I have this idea months ago? big_smile

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Well of course they shouldn't do it, but I'm worried that they will.  I read something about Grant Gustin only having a contract through the end of this season, but I can't find that article anymore so maybe I made it up.

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Informant wrote:

TNothing against the actor, but the character just never should have been brought into the show. Especially in season 2. Now they have to find a way to get rid of him, because it can't work.

Honestly, I'm much more worried that they'll kill off Barry and make Wally the primary Flash.  Considering what the CW has had to do with the Suicide Squad and Amanda Waller (and considering a Justice League movie is on the way), they might force Barry off the show and go with Wally.

Which, honestly, would be a disaster.

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I really liked the first part (I haven't watched tonight's Arrow yet).  What I liked is that it did feel like an event - not just a crossover.  The previous ones felt like contained episodes of each show with guest stars.  This felt like an episode of "Arrowverse: the Show" - I didn't feel like the show really babied any viewers.  They handled some real stuff (fighting Vigilante instead of just some random dude, Stein meeting his daughter, Diggle finding out about Sara, etc) and I thought most of the meetings were pretty organic and fun.  Cisco working with Ray, Stein reuniting with Caitlin, and the Kara/Barry and Barry/Oliver stuff was pretty cool.

And the aliens are dangerous enough to warrant a team-up but faceless enough that we didn't have to spend much time building them up to be feared/understood.

Now some negatives:

- I don't love much about Flashpoint.  I like that they're taking it as seriously as they should, but whiny Cisco is no fun (like whiny Felicity was no fun).  And whiny Barry is no fun.
- Wally does not work for me.  He throws this pity party for himself because he's not a speedster, and then he throws a pity party when people don't love his powers as much as he does.  Wally West is a great character, and I don't think he's being portrayed very well at all.  He's zero fun, and he's got zero charisma.
-The newspaper article changed to show a different writer, but it still says Starling City.  Does Central City's paper not acknowledge the new name for Star City, does it eventually change back, or was it a mistake?  Also, as a former journalist, that article is horribly written for a hard-news piece.  Writes much more like a human interest fluff piece.  Snapper Carr would never put that in his paper.

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Look into Jeffrey Epstein.  In most of the articles you find, you'll find the words "pedophile" and "sex slave for powerful friends"

You'll also find names like Donald Trump and Bill Clinton.  Remember that Bill and Donald are friends.  Have been friends for years (http://www.newsweek.com/history-donald- … hip-464360).

Donald might not be an expert on Isis.  Or the economy.  Or trade deals.  Or CHI-na.  Or Russia.  Or Putin.  Or the coal industry.  Or elections or Hillary or America or anything.  But he's probably pretty versed on scumbags.  And I think they're both scumbags.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Trump's behavior was 100 times worse, but Bill took what were 50/50 feelings I had between B.O. and H.C., and soured me on Hillary for life.

Well, we say that Trump is worse, but I'm not 100% sure he is.  They run in a lot of the same circles....including private sex parties with underage girls.  When Trump talks about Bill, I would tend to believe him.  I think they're very similar, but Bill is much more tactful about it.

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I heard that Bill Clinton wanted to change the strategy up and focus on the Rust Belt, and they laughed him out of the room.  The dude re-wrote the book on American elections, and they laughed him out of the room.

And he was right.

2,567

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Every time a celebrity complains about Trump, I laugh.  If the Democrats had taken this election even a little seriously, they would've won in a landslide.  The Republican Party is still divided about Trump.  The Democrats ran a candidate *so unpopular* that she was defeated by a portion of the Republican Party.

This was the most winnable election in history, and the party decided it was more important to feed Hillary's lust for power.  And now they're paying for it.

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Grizzlor wrote:

I think there are some easy explanations.  First of all, many of SQ's questions probably get answered in some of the off-shoot novels, comics, games, etc that accompanied the film.  I don't bother with those though.  As for the Jedi/Empire, the old Expanded Universe pretty well established that ROTJ was not the end of the Empire.  It continued on, and was still very lethal.  Perhaps it will be fleshed out, but clearly it seems the "New Republic" failed in some fashion that hasn't been discussed.

I mean, I think it's fine to leave detailed answers to questions like "What was the political climate following the death of Palpatine?" for comics/novels/etc.  The questions I'm asking are relatively simple - "Who are the First Order?" and "did anything in the 'middle trilogy' matter?"  These are the questions that weren't really answered by the Force Awakens.

We don't get enough information about the protagonists (we know almost nothing about Rey, Finn, or Poe), and we don't really understand the stakes of the fight.  Finn talks about the First Order the same way that Luke talked about the Empire.  They have the same ships, the same troopers, and seemingly the same power as the Empire.  Are they just the Empire?  The Resistance and the Rebellion have the same ships and most of the same people.  Are they the same?  In 30 years, did basically nothing change except for the names of the two sides? 

The Force Awakens is basically Independence Day: Resurgence with more beloved characters.  "HEY!  Remember the first movie!  We're just going to do that again with some really thin new characters and some of the characters you loved from the first movie!  Here are some things that you should recognize!  NOSTALGIA!"

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Well, the Marvel films hold up to minimal levels of questioning.  Take Hydra, for example.  There's an explanation for how Hydra could exist in Captain America: the First Avenger and then still exist in Captain America: the Winter Soldier.  Is it a great explanation?  No.  But they tried. 

In Star Wars, they just expect us to substitute "First Order" for "Empire" and "Rebellion" for "Resistance" and just carry on.  But what doesn't make sense is how they got there.  Or why any of the designations were changed in the first place. 

I imagine new designations make it seem like the victories in Return of the Jedi were true victories:

- Luke defeated the Empire
- The Empire is destroyed forever
- The New Republic was formed

And, yeah, I can start connecting some dots.  Someone (Snoke?) took control of the remnants of the Empire and built the First Order in its image.  Even without a leader, the Empire still had an unlimited number of troops/ships with commanders that we'd have to assume have no loyalty to the New Republic.  So even if the New Republic took *some* control of Empire troops, there'd still be, again, unlimited numbers that they wouldn't be able to control.

But, even then, the new designations don't make sense.  The Empire would still be the Empire even if Palpatine died.  The Roman Empire didn't become something different because one Caesar died.  Even if the Romans failed to conquer some random town in France, the emperor wouldn't completely rebrand as something else.  If anything, the "Empire" designation would be more appropriate to show that they never actually lost power.

But let's say that, as PR move, the remnants of the Empire just became the First Order.  Why the Resistance?  Why are they not just the "Army of the New Republic?"  Why is Leia in the Resistance and not the Army of the New Republic?  In fact, why is every member of the former Rebellion now members of the Resistance? 

At the end of the day, it would've been easier to keep things.  The Empire is still around.  There was a power struggle, but someone (Snoke) took over and the Empire never lost much of its power.  The Rebellion is still around and is separate from the New Republic, which is just-about dead and clinging to a single random system.   One reason Luke left is because all the work he did was for nothing.

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And that's sort of the marvel of the film.  I saw it twice in one weekend, enjoyed myself both times, and left with a smile on my face.

But the movie, on very simple levels, doesn't make a whole ton of sense.  It works as a standalone reboot better than it does as a sequel to Return of the Jedi.

And, yes, ireactions, I'm sure there's a comic book and a prequel novel that explain everything. smile  But the movie needs to be able to stand on its own, and The Force Awakens collapses under its own weight when you ask basic questions relating to the film's plot.

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Question - Did Romney or McCain have widespread recounts, or was Gore the last time this happened?

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Grizzlor wrote:

One other point to consider is that this is the 1st of a new trilogy, and therefore perhaps we need to see the follow ups to properly judge it as part of a larger story?

Yeah, but this movie was 150 minutes long.  It's a lot of material with almost no answers.  A New Hope was the first in a trilogy, but it still offers a basic understanding of what's going on.  And, yeah, the prequels explained too much, but I feel like JJ took things *way too far* the other way in this one.

In A New Hope, they don't explain specifics about the Empire, but we get the general premise.  They're a galactic empire with a ton of resources and a ton of soldiers.  Think the Nazis or the Romans or a hundred other empires.

The First Order seems like the same thing.  They have the same soldiers and the same ships.  But how did that happen?  Did Snoke take over from the Empire, which maintained most of their power?  If so, why is it renamed the First Order?  Did they just get a rebranding?  Or are they a completely different sect?

On the other side, is the Resistance the same as the Rebellion?  Why the shift there?  Did the New Republic spring from the Rebellion, or is it something different?

I get that First Order = Empire and Rebellion = Resistance, but I have no idea how those dots got connected.  And, thus, whether anything that happened in the "middle trilogy" did any good.  And I get that this is the first chapter in a new book, but shouldn't I have any semblance of understanding of what happened before moving on to the second chapter?

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I watched it again.  I still just don't see the appeal of this movie.  It's just nostalgia...there's nothing more to it.

The problem is that I leave with so many questions that I wonder how it's possible that I've just watched a 150-minute movie.

Things we know about Rey: she's brave, she's strong with the Force, she has a mysterious past.
Things we know about Finn: he's brave, he's noble, and he has a mysterious past.
Things we know about Poe: he's brave, he's a good pilot, and we know nothing about his past.
Things we know about Maz: she's been around 1000 years with a mysterious past.

And these are the main characters! 

I know Luke and Han aren't great characters in A New Hope, but we knew some things about Luke.  His father died at the hands of Darth Vader.  He was a great warrior, a great friend, and a great pilot.  Luke lives with his aunt and uncle.  He wants to leave the planet because he feels a pull to the bigger conflicts.

All we know about Rey is that she feels a pull to the bigger conflicts and wants to fight....but instead of wanting to leave, she wants to stay.  But we don't know anything about her parents and almost nothing of her past.

The movie is so secretive, not letting us know anything to try and set up a number of "I am your father" moments, but that means that nostalgia has to carry the entire film.  And for a lot of people, that was enough.  For me, I'm wondering what the Hell happened.

I watch the scene where the Starkiller base fires and destroys that system, and it raises a hundred questions that the movie refuses to give any insight into.  How did the First Order rise from the rubble of the Empire to, once again, be the most powerful force of the galaxy?  Who is the New Republic, and why is its capital in some system we've never heard of (instead of Coruscant?  Why are the Resistance and the New Republic separate?  Shouldn't the Resistance just be the fleet of the New Republic?  Why does Princess Leia work for the Resistance and not the New Republic?

And I get that this is a movie that can afford to raise questions and not answer them because movies 8 and 9 would be coming no matter what.  This is season one of a show that's guaranteed to be renewed.  And, yeah, there's enough fun stuff in the movie that you don't ask the questions until later.

But, really, this movie couldn't afford to give us anything?  Anything at all?

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Do any of you listen to Dan Carlin?  He's a history buff who runs a couple of podcasts.  His one on Trump was very good and pretty much said everything I've ever wanted to say about this election.

http://traffic.libsyn.com/dancarlin/cswdcd11.mp3

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Anyone watching this show?  I have some comments, but I don't want to just talk to myself big_smile

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I finally saw this tonight.  I generally agree with all the criticism of it.  I didn't love the Batgirl prologue, just because I didn't really feel like it tied into the main story.  I think they maybe should've shown how Barbara became Batgirl.  Maybe against her father's wishes.  Or Batman's wishes.  How she proved herself.  Maybe some interaction she had with the Joker.

The sex scene didn't bother me.  It's never stated how much older Batman is.  He might just be a few years older, and that relationship could easily be just as sexual as her relationship with Dick.  I thought that was fine.

The rest of the movie was well done.  I haven't actually read the Killing Joke, but I still like the story.  I also like the ambiguity of the ending.  I think I prefer to think that Batman kills the Joker and ends up in Arkham.  Not sure why but I like that ending.

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Yeah, I hadn't thought about that, but for as suspicious as Wells has been, I'm surprised that there wasn't more of a deal about the face-swapping (and the "retina-altering device").  It was also weird that Wells didn't stay and vet his doppelganger a little more.

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DieselMickyDolenz wrote:

FWIW, Frequency isn't getting a full season order. Neither is No Tomorrow. I guess it's still possible to get canceled on the CW after all.

Well, I meant none of the Arrowverse shows were in cancelled territory.  I'm guessing one of them would have to drop below 1MM viewers to get cancelled, although I wouldn't mind seeing Arrow or Legends drop off after this season.

And I'd like Legends to do something next year either way.

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And I checked, the ratings for all the series look to be down.  Their most recent episode:

Supergirl - 2.35 million US viewers
Flash - 2.77
Arrow - 1.95
Legends - 1.77

So Flash is still number one but down quite a bit.  Supergirl is (obviously) down from where it was on CBS, and both Arrow and Legends are falling into scary territory. 

For comparison, Supernatural had 1.70 for their latest episode.  Vampire Diaries had 1.00.  Frequency (on the bubble) had 1.05.  So I guess it isn't "cancelled" territory on any of them.

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http://www.superherohype.com/news/38588 … e#/slide/1

They're moving Legends to Tuesday to pair with the Flash. 

AND HEY, LOOK, THEY MOVED SUPERNATURAL smile