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Today I saw a sample of a new Adobe Photoshop feature that filled out a photo to make it wider.   It improvised the information on the left and right and was scary good.

Pretty certain 4:3 video content could be turned into 16:9 in the coming decades though I am not sure there will ever be enough of a commercial market for it to be developed or be available to consumers to utilize independently.

On gaming... I've used chagpt to play text based games around sliders.  Like the old 80s games. 

It's fun and cool but ultimately after five or six times kinda loses its novelty because the games do lack originality and actually don't last long before it tells you that's it, you've won.

Agree tho it seems like it is a great use case though for aso.

I more think about it in Ready Player One / metaverse terms.

I wasn't sure if I had the Arturo death conv. right... my memory is always hazy with details of the show like that... so I knew I was entering dangerous waters by giving that example lol.

It obviously can wax poetic on quite broad concepts, and associate questions to those concepts.  Then it can draw on incredibly well articulated philosophical writing from genius humans on those concepts and stitch together a coherent, deductive response.

When it had less to draw from it's weakness gets exposed.

The future of how people engage with characters like this may be as a friend and/or mentor or even companion, or it may relate to just the in-universe storytelling. 

Like, "Arturo, tell me how you felt when you revealed to Quinn you had terminal illness. Did you prepare much before telling him.  How long did you think about it?"

@ireactions

Right so the next step would be if one were entirely focused on something like this is creating a custom AI model, which the api allows for.  The it would be feeding a lot to base it on.  And even then it's a little more complex.  Sometimes results are better with a training data set that is smaller vs. everything you can feed into it.  If one were trying to optimize the algorithm or just to reach some minimum threshold of quality.  But i guess it's clear that just off of what's been indexed by the default model, you've established it's just not enough to represent all the different dimensions of arturo.

I actually never watched House but feel it's lead character is somehow spiritually connected to arturuo.

Whohooo!!

@quinnslidr  that's great!!

I  did a bit of googling yesterday briefly and noticed how high the imdb rating was and the stills I saw of the show is very close to the 60s version.

It seems like a great project.   And not a bad comparison for the purposes of this dicussion, though not a 1-to-1 either.  There's a kirk like character... but nobody would ever think that's specfically Kirk.  Same for other cast.  Although I can totally how some fans may feel like it's well done enough to take as cannon.  Even if it's not official cannon, the fact that it is cannon to you actually goes back to the spirit of what I was asking.   If it's cannon to you, and you can enjoy it as such, then that's a yay.  It doesnt have to be cannon to all fans but if some can enjoy it as such, well then, I think that is an interesting opportunity for what AI can give those fans.

I think for me, when I think of the franchises I love... Back to the Future, Blade Runner, Sliders....  well, I would never regard any AI stuff as bttf cannon.  I could totally embrace a metaverse/vr world version of Blade Runner where you can interact with the characters as in-universe, real stuff.  VR implementation of this tech will inevitably come in decades.  That is the future of entertainment, to be able to step into the world.  That said, AI generated fan stories in 2d format for Blade Runner I wouldnt regard as cannon unless expectionally well done and feeling rather true.   The bar would be super high.

Now Sliders, since it's dead, and it's not back to the future, and it feels like property that has a never ending amount of stories and travels - anthological -- stuff that doesn't contradict or get in the way of any official cannon, well, I could accept potentially stories about worlds and the adventures our gang has taken them as cannon, under the right circumstances. I wouldnt ever accept content relating to origin stories as cannon because that  feels like something which should come from the creator.  If we are talking earth prime cannon.   Now if there was audio dramas or realistic video content of a story of the week on a world, and it was well done, and it captured the  original tone and voice of the creator?  I think I could probably embrace it as in-universe.  If the production quality felt polished and not like a fan effort, and if the tech allows for that.

The bigger opportunity may be though to take scripts that were never done, story ideas, from the creator and making it come alive.  That would feel cannon.   

Many months ago, and even last year, I think i've referenced the possibilities for the future with Sliders with regard to technology, and what it may allow.  But I never thought it was just around the corner.  Now I am seeing stories every day that make it clear, lord this stuff is close, or is certain to be a reality.  Another industry that this is relevant is the music industry.  You have Tupac rapping songs originally song by Eminem or Nas.   For fans in that space, they are torn because on one hand, some of the stuff sounds really good.  Some of them love it, and an opportunity to enjoy the artist in a different way.  And for some, it feels wrong.   Nobody will likely feel the same about this stuff.  And I am sure the same person can feel both ways. 

It will be an interesting time, and I think eventually we will see the tools to at least start being more "makers" in the Sliders universe with experiences that are more visceral than the written word.  In my opinion, that is exciting because when you put all your hope into a studio to make new material, and the corporate powers aren't gonna care that much about a niche-type property, it empowers us in a way and makes us less dependant on them.

I am not so sure that studios will ever get away with using an actors likeness or voice to create content for the market wifhout remuneration.  They may be able to get away with generating animated versions but then the studios will still have to use their voice. 

On the writing side, or even generated image side, it's all taking advantage of indexed web content.  Unfortunately we have seen copyright work plagiarized time and again well before AI and tech companies got away with it for years.  Australia put in laws so publishers would gave to get paid by search engines and social networks but that hasn't stopped the aggregation industry and it's still a huge problem writers in the journalism industry have had to combat for a couple of decades now.  It was wrong then and again tech companies leveraging creators work and not compensating is wrong now.  I believe Canada is have a back and forth with Facebook on this now?

I think when it comes to ai and the tools that become available to fans...  well fans will be able to generate story and then make content based on video and audio trained from the original shows and movies.

Studios in some cases may try to create the platforms for fans to create this content so they can then monetize engagement on what fans create.  There also will be tools available to people to use outside these official platforms. In some cases a studio may support creation for a number of their franchises they care about and then see others as too niche... And for those titles independent tools will be the only route and those works wouldn't have much reach or likely be monetized.

The question is, if we do have the ability to create realistic looking or sounding content, is that taking things a step too far. Is there something not okay about being able to do something that at the very least blurs the line between the legacy official content and the stuff fans may come out with because even if the stories aren't as good, if the production value feels comparable or looks like the original, it almost dilutes the franchise? And then secondly, if you get stories that are of high quality and do really feel like where the story should have gone, could you ever embrace such a work in your own head as cannon?   Or could anything created like that regardless of it's quality never be cannon in your head if it was unoffficial?  I think this second question matters quite a bit, because the reason official content is so enjoyable is that even though we know the storytelling is fictional, we play along and pretend as if it were real.  If we never can believe this new sort of content can be real (or cannon) then I think it doesn't come close to continuing the universe and character arcs the way official productions do and will never serve as a replacement.  Which can leave a franchise at a continued standstill if a studio never decides to continue the story themselves.

It's been very interesting to see the speed at which ai has developed as it relates to creative applications.

Already the tech exists to have speech (and even singing) be replicated for any voice there is sufficient training data for.

And Tom Hanks recently commented on starring in movies after he is gone.   Bruce Willis, with his tragic medical condition, has reportedly already agreed for his likeness to be licensed for future entertainment content.

There is currently a strike in Hollywood, and the wga is trying to limit the use of A.I.   Studios understand it may expand the industry... It's just that writers may not be the beneficiary.  Of course it's possible actors could or could not get hit hardest if fictional characters are generated by AI rather than even based on an actor who has previously initiated a role.

Open source AI is getting better and better.  Google is concerned it is approaching the quality they've been able to generate.

Undoubtedly fans will be able to use these tools to create in universe content for a property they enjoy.   Not just studios.

I am wonder how sliders fans feel about this new frontier.  In five to 10 years it's very possible we will be able to create content in a visual or audio format that is not like anything we would have ever guessed be possible a year or two ago.   Is this a good thing or a bad thing?

good god, the amount of improvement! 

i'm really floored by the change.

edit: updated for correct link

Actually, would a Black & White version of that be so bad? 

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/shop … p;usqp=CAc

So I googled "fuzzy video algorithm" to try to see if there'd be anything out there for the type of content in S1 where it's just fuzzy and blurry and I got a lot of results for fuzzy-matching logic, which isn't necessarily the type of fuzzy I meant....

That said, the results made me re-google it using the blur keyword, and I got results on video stablization that took blurry frames and made them much more precise.  I am not sure how they work, if they look for a stable frame and then extrapolate that for the frames where blur occurs.  Or if something else is at play.

But it makes me wonder... could video stablization algorithms people currently use for shaky hand-held video provide any gains? 

There seem to be quite a few of them, all that may work in different ways.  But I wonder if any of this could unlock any benefit for the most troublesome, blurry episodes of S1 or if there's just not enough clear frames in the content for this class of aglorithms to benefit from.   My guess is it's the latter.

Pneumatic, have you ever heard of anyone playing with those types of algorithms on old, compressed tv shows?

This came out a month ago:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/03 … rome-edge/

I doubt it's algorithm (assuming you could port it to software and run on video files) would have a dramatic impact on SLIDERS but hey I think things are moving in the right direction in terms of guessing what an image should actually look like.  I think SLIDERS s1 will be able to keep getting better and better as new solutions are developed.

When I look at the above screenshot of quinn in the pharamacy, I definitely imagine a future where it will be pretty clear.

In the meantime, s1 has never looked cleaner/clearer with the strides that have been made.  It's definitely exciting to see.

So, it's very clear to me, Topaz bring something to the table with the pilot.  I'd put it as the clear No. 1 over non-topaz editions.  Now, with regard to pure topaz vs. topaz + pneumatic, I find the two clearly different, and I am still trying to grasp which is my favorite, because they are both so different and have clear strengths.  That said, the pneumatic + topaz sample is playing a little choppy for me right now, I'll need to run through a a different computer, as the laptop I have for this (and my vlc settings) is on the old side and not the best memory/cpu. 

I feel like straight topaz has a little bit more speculy grain, film noise, where the other (neuomatic + topaz) may have less of that texture.   But the latter is twice the file size, so I don't know what role that is playing. 

The flaws on the straight topaz one is clearer up close.  The pneumatic + topaz holds up better up a bit better in close range. 

I feel more of a cinema quality (90s type 35mm) from the topaz and more of a modern tv style from pneumatic + topaz.

In anycase, i think pneumatic + topaz is another step up for this content.  I wouldn't abandon the straight topaz version because it has a charm / feel / quality to it. I  just think this other one is more classically/techniqually pristine.  Now sometimes imperfections build characteristics so the straight just topaz version may have a little more of that.

The original's obviously have a haiseyness to them but when you sharpen, don't you think it kinda gives it a wobble in that particular instance.  Looking at the screenshots, I think you once called it the "teeth chattering effect"?

Looking at those shots, the best two shots

pneumatic TFM + TDecimate + QTGMC output to 1080p via nnedi3

pneumatic TFM + TDecimate + QTGMC (540p) with Topaz AI Artemis upscaling to 1080p.

This one is somewhat interesting, but I don't have a definitive conclusion:
pneumatic TFM + TDecimate + QTGMC + nnedi3 (540p) with Topaz AI Gaia upscaling (1080p).

It gives it an interesting, almost intriguing texture but I'm not sure if it'd come across as additive or distracting in video form?  I am kinda surprised you don't maybe enjoy it more because it does feel like there's a grain / exposure to it.

The sharpened one is bad compared to the others.

What's interesting is how much each version "colors" the content in terms of I feel like it would have a real impact on the viewing experience and the vibe.   This is probably why hollywood has people who pay so much attention to a film's "finish" in the post production process.  It almost frames the story, or serves as a reference to the viewer on the voice of the storyteller.

To add to this... I don't think it's just pneumatic's assement on image quality.   If you are able to load the images (right click), I think it's pretty clear that universal is better.  That said as I noted it seems as if the screen shots were vertically stretched for pal/turbine and I wonder if this makes them look inferior in screenshot format but when played on a tv player they get compressed back and maybe yield a better image.

If you stretch anything vertically it's going to appear less sharp and more blurred.

Another relevant comment, perhaps somewhat related

Well I'm a bit confused too, because I seem to recall evaluating the blu-ray and thinking later production episodes were better. I was using a junky blu-ray player too.  I have to look back in this thread to find the comments, just to make sure I was comparing to dvd files.

Ireactions deserves the credit here for making it happen. )

In terms of episode comparisons, S1's pilot looks like it has best grain in NTSC (or is that just bc it's darker?), best coloring in PAL.  Turbine looks the worst.

I'm super surprised how different they all are.

On episode 104, NTSC clearly has more information (quinn's eyes are a good point of reference), PAL smooths it out, and Turbine just gets worse (including the color).

S2 - NTSC seems to have once again more data in the image, pixels of info (which is odd bc I thought PAL had more lines of resolution?); PAL and Turbine look remarkably similar here.  They pal/turbine definitely has a smoothness vs. more pixel feel to the NTSC data. NTSC has slightly better coloring (although not sure, maybe there is room for debate).

S3 -- NTSC clear winner, Turbine and Pal are essentially indistinguishable but Turbine may have a 2-3% edge.

S4 -- NTSC winner (look at quinn's face or roof shingles as a point of reference).   What's odd is the Pal/Turbine images appear to be stretched vertically (taller).   I think this stretching may be causing more blurryness?

And Turbine seems a bit better on this one, look at this as a reference:

I wonder if Temporal Flux would know anything about how these episodes were produced, eg if they had different teams dividing up the work, and perhaps using different practices or equipment/resources.  Because they were shooting one a week, maybe post production required different teams working in parrellel because post product required a lot of time and the schedule demanded it.

I guess the credits may give us information about the different crews involved.

11% seems substantial and who knows - that may come through in the final results.  The currrent topaz pilot looks incredible to me but i'd say up close, right in front of the tv, it's clearer it's not HD. I wonder if you'd get more out of the lines of resolution now.

@ireactions Don't want to distract from the current course, I love that you've identified the probable algorithm your blu-ray player used to upscale s1 well (on Turbine).

But, regarding the Pneumatic edition, what is your guesses as to how it would affect the pilot, given the pilot didn't have the same level of issues as the rest of s1, but Pneumatic's avi synth changes obviously had such a strong impact on cleaning up ep. 102-109?

I do have one question on this:

Is the TIVTC still being used?  As I recall, that yielded very good results for 102-109.

I haven't been a big fan of the grain, and find it feeling like it's a "dirtier" tape/image.  I mean, I think I may be more ok with flat/smooth more than you, but I've usually added the smallest amount of grain possible when using VLC player on files, so I think tiny texture is good.  But not floating/dancing dots that maybe also not feel natural.  But I also don't like authentic grain, over exposed 16mm look either.

So, I have to do more comparison, backdating to the original topaz samples, but I have to say, comparing the most recent samples on a USB drive plugged into a TV, it's not even close Pneumatic S1 vs. Turbine S1.  Pnematic s1 is just sooo much better.   Not even close better.

Definitely Tracy and Marc are enormously talented people in their own rights, with very different skill sets of course.  I agree that Marc would probably know how to approach things differently, in a more palatable manner. 

I guess what I'm saying though is, people are who they are, and I just accept the situation as such.  Tracy comes with his quirks, like I do mine, and while I'd never utter that phrase about "never being woke" personally, because I think there are certain implications to it (or stuff I don't agree with) I can kinda accept if that's what netted out in this situation, because, well, tracy doesn't like wokeness and at the same time, he's also the guy who'd you want to do a proper revivial/sequel.   

Sure, I'd like Marc's way of putting things over Tracy's.  I just don't see a realistic scenario where we would have gotten that.  Maybe had they built a relationship before then.  Jacob Epstein was someone who was involved in the pitch though.  Yes, saying certain things are a huge red flag that will be quite a problem for a studio in this day and age.

Also, FWIW, Marc has some upset backers of Space Command.   That doesn't make him bad -- he's actually an incredible salesman (to raise the money he did) but he also got super enthusiastic and bit off a lot.  Meaning the Space  Command project has people who gave money who I guess haven't gotten what they expected. I don't think Marc intended to do anything bad but he just was trying to do somethign quite ambitious.  And all that takes a ton more time, money, and complications than perhaps he was prepared for.  It's also worth noting he couldn't get Space Command greenlit (by the studio system).  That doesn't make it unworthy.  Perhaps had a studio believed in him, he would have created something with a cult following.  He probably didn't have a recent enough tv hit to have the political juice to push something like that through.  I believe his initial plan was to do a pilot via gofundme, then get a studio to greenlight a season and instead he had to do the whole thing off gofundme (with "investors").

One small step for sliders, one giant step for sliderskind

@ireactions your artistic choices have always been the right ones.

All that being said, as a general note to both our artistes.   I may not have the familiarity or possibly the aptitude to match what you are doing.  But I do have the similar nit pickyness.   On my bucket list is editing an ultimate version of the best of whatever we can pull out of these files with the magic of technology.  That means splicing close up shots / medium shots / wide shots on a timeline (which I know I can do, as I've done that stuff before).   And possibly adjusting color or even sharpness to individual scenes.   That will be a project I hope to do one day, when I have the leisure time [not something my life affords at the moment].  It's something I would quite enjoy.

thank you!  i've spent the last five minutes trying to find an emoticon to express my gratitude on that (but having trouble finding a small one).