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Ron Filipkowski from Meidas+ has some interesting post-November 5 thoughts on what wrong wrong and how to fix it.

His theory incorporates pretty much all of the above: Biden's late dropout, inflation, too short a season for Kamala to make her mark, the Afghan withdrawal, the border, Merrick Garland, cultural policing issues, Twitter, how Democrats failed to make a case for the Latino vote and the votes of non-college graduates and the working class (not the middle class)... and he notes that the Democratic Party has the talent to change that...

But only if they acknowledge and confront some hard truths and painful failures and stop living in the past.

https://www.meidasplus.com/p/what-went- … irect=true

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Kamala's proposals were ultimately for the middle class, for people looking to buy homes and start families and businesses, but not for people below that income line and struggling. The middle class is not the working class. And Kamala and the Democratic Party's strategy lost the election, so whatever their ideological merits, their actual gains ranged from very low to non-existent.

I'm not sure what the point is of anyone presenting the Democrats' approach as winning or successful when it was not, no matter how personally appealing it may have been to them or to me.

Anyone who doesn't think a serious strategic rethinking is needed is still living in the past before the election. And to me, anyone who is stuck in the past has no business calling anyone else nuts.

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The autopsy on Democrats' 2024 ambitions continues with an exploration from New York Democrats: why did the Latino vote dessert Democrats?

A consensus is emerging that national Democrats focused too little on pocketbook concerns and failed to understand the relatively conservative posture many Latinos share around social issues, public safety and a migrant crisis that has disproportionately impacted New York. It’s a critique being leveled by one of America’s leading critics of income inequality — Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, who lambasted Democrats for having “abandoned working class people” after Trump’s victory.

“Not immigration, like everybody tried to pigeonhole us into, but pocketbook issues — the inflation, jobs, the economy, affordable housing — were the top issues for Latinos,” said Frankie Miranda, the federation’s president. The Democratic government’s response to immigration might actually be repelling Latino voters instead of luring them.

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/0 … s-00188373

(It would be awesome if we could discuss why Democrats failed -- which they did -- as opposed to claiming they shouldn't have failed just because. Because when we confront failure, we build to success.)

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I'm going to suggest learning the difference between the working class and the middle class.

I'm also going to suggest that to reiterate Democratic strategies that lost this election is to reiterate failed strategies that don't work and don't win.

The issue isn't even Kamala, for whom Sanders campaigned. The issue is that the Democratic Party that was behind Kamala is ultimately funded by the corporations and billionaire class that drive the working class into the ground.

I'm going to suggest that the people who might consider a little silence might be the ones who have demonstrated no ability to review why their side failed and what might be done differently, who claim fraud that even the losing candidates haven't claimed, or who say that some people shouldn't be allowed to vote at all, or demanding in a now deleted post that Biden and Harris should seize autocratic power before Trump does.

I'm going to suggest that when someone's political discourse is little more than panic, petulance and denial without ideas or insight or analysis or strategy, they're in not really in a position to tell anyone to shut up.

I don't mean to say that people shouldn't express grief and sadness and anger, but demanding that failed strategies be considered successful ones and trying to silence other people's analyses and suggested strategies is neither productive nor enlightening.

But again -- there is quite a difference between working class and middle class in 2024.

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If there had been a primary and Kamala lost the primary, that would simply have been the will of the Democratic voters, and not any regime throwing her aside.

During the inflation crisis -- and for most of his presidency -- Biden avoided interviews, avoided being available for constituents to ask him questions and avoided anything and everything that would have made him feel present to the people. It's pretty obvious why: his verbal communication skills had declined, he mixed up names, he mumbled, he'd freeze -- and his handlers didn't want his diminishment (superficial as it was) to be visible. They distanced him from the press... and though he could campaign for office that way.

**

Bernie Sanders says that once again, Democrats have given up on trying to win votes from working class people, instead focusing on demographics and identities.

https://x.com/BernieSanders/status/1854 … 41698?mx=2

There's definitely something there: Democrats are belittling Trump voters for choosing Trump, mocking them for caring more about the price of eggs than democracy. While voting for Trump is contemptible, the average person has been roiled by inflation, by rising food and housing costs -- and a Democratic Party that brags about having a strong economy to people who are struggling to eat is in serious trouble.

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez notes that the Democratic Party is often unable to articulate specific ways to pursue working class votes because the party is unwilling to directly confront the price gouging, exploitation and misuse that corporations and billionaires inflict on the working class because party as it exists depends on so corporations and billionaires to fund it, and while Trump isn't going to change that, Trump offers forceful solutions, even they are facile or false and involve blaming minorities, while Democrats make broad and vague gestures to avoid offending their backers. The upshot is that the working class votes for the party that lies to them over the party that doesn't speak to them.

https://www.instagram.com/p/DCDRaRoxJYW/?hl=en

Vox notes that incumbent governments are being thrown out by voters struggling with the costs of food, health care and housing, pointing out: in 2020, voters were suffering from COVID and blamed the incumbent, who was Trump. In 2024, voters were suffering from inflation and blamed the incumbent, who was Biden and by extension, Trump.

https://www.vox.com/2024-elections/3832 … incumbents

Temporal Flux remarked in 2016 that a lot of people who voted for Trump didn't like or support him, but they were suffering, Democrats didn't seem to be speaking to them beyond token gestures, and that from his observation, the vote for Trump was a way to attack the entire political system that ignored them. I would offer the adjacent theory that it might be a panic button vote from people who were suffering from job losses and costs that wouldn't improve with either administration.

Andrew Yang says Democrats have failed to focus on standard of living, the working class, and alienated the majority of their base; he notes that Democrats had best abandon policing cultural behaviors. Faiz Shakir says Democrats must recruit working-class candidates who reflect people who live payday to payday.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ … w-00187993

I suspect that if Democrats plan on winning any future elections, their proposals need to speak to people who work for a living or the other side will take those voters again.

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Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I think America will survive.  This isn't a fatal blow any more than Hitler was a fatal blow for Germany.  We have a very stupid and very selfish president who will sell us out to Russia, China, North Korea, Iran, and others.  But he's old and will die sooner than later.  The Supreme Court will be lost for generations, but the country will survive.  The economy will be in tatters, and I assume the world will need to move to a different reserve currency with the shape the dollar will be in.

I hope you're right.

It seems to me that Biden's legacy is that he took the White House away from Trump... but then he basically gave it back. Anything Biden has accomplished will be undone.

Democrats are blaming Biden for the loss, for wasting time, for not committing to one term, for not letting a new candidate take center stage well in advance and distinguish themselves as separate from Biden, and for turning a deaf ear to inflation and the pain it was causing the working class.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/11/0 … n-00188092

It's a terrible situation. For four years, I had to constantly read the news in terror of what Trump had done, and now we're going to be facing an ever darker version of that.

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Brian, take some time to grieve. But don't let your ideals dismiss reality.

The reality I am forced to face: the people I counted on for analysis and assessment and strategy do not have what it takes to bring about a Democrat victory in today's political climate or even analyze an election correctly, and any rejoinders and protests to the contrary about qualifications and disdain for the opposing side and the electoral college are not accompanied with results. Which means you and I were ultimately presenting a losing hand.

As my archnemesis once said, you have to know when to hold them and when to fold them.

It seems to me we'd better listen long and hard to the Grizzlors and pilights of the world and better understand what it takes to win, because what we've got is not working for us.

Thank you, Grizzlor and pilight.

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I apologize for posting so much from Simon Rosenberg.

I wanted to believe in the vision of the world he presented... but the vision he presented isn't actual reality. I made a mistake. I trusted the wrong person. I screwed up. I wanted to believe... but what I wanted to believe in just wasn't there.

I was scared and he gave me reason not to be, which is why I shared what he had to say. But I was still scared that he could be wrong, and he was wrong, and now I feel numb.

I told you that dark days were coming. This is as dark as I feared.

I am going to take some time to think, but I am so sorry for sharing what turned out to be neither true nor reliable. I feel bad.

I'll see what this person has to say for himself, but I won't share his analyses here again. No sense in posting misinformation.

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Simon Rosenberg wrote:

Friends, we've been through this before in both 2016 and 2020.  It is early, votes still need to be counted, as we saw in 2020 our vote comes in late, and Harris has multiple paths to 270.  Lots of Dem vote out everywhere.  It's hard but we need to be patient.

https://x.com/SimonWDC/status/1854010462699917527

Jen O'Malley Dillon wrote:

As we have known all along, this is a razor thin race.

We have known all along that our clearest path to 270 electoral votes lies through the Blue Wall states. And we feel good about what we’re seeing.

https://x.com/jeneps/status/1854010627523551301

Simon Rosenberg wrote:

As I wrote to you today, we are likely to have significant results from only three battleground states tonight by midnight ET - GA, MI and NC.

I can understand if folks are frustrated and anxious. So much data, partial results, things moving around. Things look good, then not so good. It’s also very hard to know what is happening in any county until 100% of the votes are in. Small rural Trump counties get counted quickly. Many of our big urban counties will end up reporting late tonight which means Trump may lead most of the night in some of these states and then things will tighten up.

Folks I spoke to in the campaign and in the states today were very optimistic. Vibes were good. I remain very optimistic.

It is going to be a close election, and we may not know the outcome until Thursday or Friday.

https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/hopi … otes-1-its

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The red mirage has been a constant in elections because vote counting across rural Republican areas is faster than counting votes across heavily populated Democrat areas. This could take days.

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Vote counts are gradual. None of these non-results mean anything right now. Don't mistake mirages for results.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-e … rcna175475

(He said fearfully.)

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I'm scared. But...

Simon Rosenberg wrote:

Friends, on this Election Day, 2024, I am optimistic we will win. Late deciders have broken to us. The campaign has seen it in their data, and we’ve seen it both in public polling and in the early vote. We are outworking them. Our ads have reached more people. Our field operations have reached more people. Our extraordinary campaign has reached more people, and will doing so today, all day. We are closing strong and winning. They are closing as ugly as it gets and losing.

https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/elec … ay-to-work

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I think your account is an example of how you treat someone with welcome and consideration on a personal level but are completely opposed to them on a political level.

I do not think we will be getting results until Thursday or Friday. But if I am wrong, I owe you a trip to the Alamo Drafthouse.

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I liked the show too. I just... got lost with Season 3. I couldn't understand it.

Season 4 was more coherent and good, but I'm still very confused about year 3.

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The reality is that people can have one set of values on a personal and individual basis and a completely different set of values at the ballot box. An essay I wrote awhile back about someone:

Many years ago, I interviewed an actor who was on a show I liked. This actor would, a few years after our interview, post a lot of Trump-supportive content on his social media. Following Charlottesville with neo-Nazis marching, this actor made a number of posts sharing (false) claims that the Nazi-presence and rhetoric had been overblown or misrepresented. This made me very angry.

I said nothing (well, outside of private conversations, I said nothing). I didn't comment on it in the fan community. I ceased contact and would check in on this actor from time to time, if only as a study of how someone could be radicalized.

This actor eventually scrubbed his social media of all pro-Trump material while leaving behind a few pre-2015, Trump-mocking comments regarding Trump's business practices. Because this actor took down his Trump-support and ceased voicing any support of Trump at all, I'm not willing to name him in this post.

I should note: I don't believe that anyone had to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016 or Joe Biden in 2020 to make the minimum grade as a decent human being. People I respect voted third party or wrote in names because they didn't support Clinton, or because they believed in term limits when it came to Biden, or for other reasons entirely.

However, I believe that the act of voting for Donald Trump was and is evil.

I felt tremendous confusion when this actor expressed support for Trump's 2016 campaign of obvious racism, bigotry, white supremacy and white privilege. This actor had been so generous to me: a lengthy phone conversation, reviewing his quotes and offering clarifications and corrections, patient explanations of his process and work, indulgently sharing memories of times that were challenging and difficult.

He did all this for me, and I am a person of colour. I am an Asian man and I have a Muslim name (which is incredibly weird because my family has no Muslims and is Buddhist on one side and Mennonite on the other). Someone supporting a racist political party that encourages violence against anyone who isn't Caucasian -- that's not something I can ignore morally or in terms of personal safety.

Why did a Trump supporter do so much for an Asian man with a Muslim name? I had conversations with others and received a number of theories.

From my sister:
"You're not Asian enough for someone to be racist to you. Do you hear yourself on the phone? You sound white."

From my father:
"You're a banana, son. Yellow on the outside, white on the inside and people react to you like you're white. Also, as Chinese people go, you're very pale. You get white privilege." 

From my niece:
"That actor might be nice to you, but he wouldn't ever want people of colour to have any more rights -- or actual rights -- and he wants to keep your lack of privilege where it is and his white privilege where it is and he'll always vote for whatever gives white people more power to be racist."

From an intern in the social justice office:
"The dude was nice to you because he wanted to answer fan questions about his work and not have to talk about it anymore. You were someone he could use."

This twisted me inside for a long time. Eventually, I simply had to bar it from my mind. But in recent days, I've had to think about it, and I've revisited the theories that my friends and family offered me. I have then rejected these theories. I know in my heart (if not for a fact) that they are all wrong.

I have decided that he was sincerely nice to me, a person of colour, in a genuine and heartfelt way and he voted for and supported a white supremacist bigot. Both are true.

Why did he vote for Donald Trump and minimize the presence of Nazis the way Informant, a former poster here, was constantly lying and claiming there where no neo-Nazis even when they were roaring, "You will not replace us"?

A vote for Trump could be, as Grizzlor put it, tribalism, but neo-Nazi denialism goes beyond that.

I'm prepared to suggest that this actor, like Kelsey Grammer, suffered something in his life that shook him and damaged him and his sense of right and wrong when it came to the specific sphere of politics. There are actually numerous areas in his life where he may have experienced something disturbing and traumatic for which he deserves, like any person, sympathy and understanding.

Without going into detail, there was a very early setback in his education that deprived him of credentials he needed in the field of acting (don't bother trying to look this up, you won't find it). This may have caused a sense of failure and may have made it harder than it should have been to build his career, although he did build it. There may have been distress with the mother of his children not being in his life or his children's lives. I don't know that these were life-altering traumas for him. They may have been merely setbacks, but they probably weren't non-serious issues.

And then there was this actor's biggest job. The pinnacle of his career. He'd acted in small roles and acted in medium-sized roles and acting had become his full time job. Then came a role that would bring him to his largest audience yet. This role, while potentially career-defining, also came with a sense of humiliation: the actor was hired to effectively replace and imitate a different performer.

The original performer in this role was a big name who had played the character for years, but suddenly left the role. This actor I interviewed was the successor and his new job involved mimicking the original performer's performance. (I guess this gives it away)

This job must have come with the constant sense of being second-chosen, second-best, least-wanted, least-remembered, least-respected. There was the sense that the highest amount of regard for his career was when he performed in the shadow of someone else, copying someone else's work rather than offering something uniquely his own. This is an extremely caustic and mocking interpretation, and it is absolutely not how I see this person or his life or his work.

I consider this actor to a more skillful, detailed, thoughtful and talented than his predecessor, and truly a master thespian. I was impressed by how the actor's work was not imitation, but tribute where mimicry of the previous performer was just one facet of a very complex performance. And this actor could have built a successful career beyond this big role. He had the talent and physical appeal to do so, but he decided to end his acting career a short time after this job due to the need to spend more time with his family.

He left acting and found success in a different field. As a result, his former acting career was then defined by this one part where people saw him as a stand-in for somebody else; a scab, a stand-in, a substitute.

I have never and will never see him as a substitute for anybody. But it is how many others viewed him and viewed his life and viewed his work. That had to have affected him, especially when he was told by cruel fans in public that his failure to live up to his predecessor was why the show was cancelled.

These are not easy experiences.

As Dr. Frasier Crane might say: someone who experiences a sense of disenfranchisement, abandonment -- and who is treated as a shabby substitute -- could experience dire feelings of inadequacy, inferiority, weakness, and frustration that he is viewed as a second-rate copy rather than someone with his own set of experiences and skills and approach to his profession and craft.

Someone might go through this and then in their politics feel a desire for control, dominance, privilege, elevation, superiority, vindication and obedience, and this might be reflected in their voting for and supporting fascist authoritarianism and entitlement.

Someone could experience all these things and cast that vote... but still retain the ability to dismiss race and ethnicity on a personal level (like when interacting with a fan) while making racist and white supremacist choices on a political level.

One does not negate the other. Being kind to me does not erase the fact that this person cast a ballot for racism, fascism and authoritarianism. At the same time, casting that ballot did not erase the fact that this person was extremely generous to me on a personal and psychological level and, in their kindness to me, was also being kind to every other fan of his work.

This person has ceased supporting Donald Trump publicly. This means that their politics today are now a private affair as they are no longer voicing any opinion of it at all and have removed their previous opinions from their platform. For this reason, I will not name this actor nor will I associate this person with the cause from which he severed his public (if not private) allegiance. I have said nothing about this online for the past seven years because I did not want to diminish this person's standing or what he had shared with fans.

As someone who has voted for different parties at different times, I can say that there are votes for parties that I regret casting. I have made votes that, upon reflection, I consider to have been acts of evil on my part. I wouldn't want to be defined by a vote that I now regret, and I'm sure I'm not the only one.

These are important subjects to discuss, and I don't feel silence serves anyone. However, I make the request that if we talk about this more, we avoid using this person's name as search engine optimization can cause associations that this person clearly no longer wants to maintain... and as this person never committed any actual crimes (none that I'm aware of, anyway), he has the right to change, to chart a new course, and to move on.

**

There are dark days ahead of you. You're all going going to be tested. And I'm so sorry for how hard it will all be.

But... I have faith in you.

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I would appreciate it if you would watch Season 3 and tell me what the hell is going on because I could not understand it.

I am super-behind and need to watch ECHO before I get to AGATHA. And I am currently knee-deep in a SMALLVILLE rewatch. But I'll get to it!

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And it still won't make his supporters any less devoted.

WTF, right? Honestly, human beings can be such a joke, except I'm not laughing.

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I hope he's right.

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Here is the fight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4EwWkuXbFw

Clark does his signature move of throwing Titan who is then stabbed through the heart. Clark flat out said going into the fight that he believed the best resolution would be for him to kill Titan, and given how Clark stepped into a kill or be killed combat situation with the intention of using lethal force, Clark considers himself a killer after this.

Clark tells Martha at the end, as he prepares to hunt down more Phantom Zone escapees menacing innocent humans: "I don't know how to return them to the Phantom Zone. The only way to get rid of them is to kill them like I did Titan." Martha protests that it was an accident and that Titan was trying to kill Clark. "So I just killed him first?" Clark protests. "How does that make me any different than Titan?" The debate is left unresolved.

I personally am... okay with Clark using lethal force against a superpowered adversary who wanted him and any easy prey humans dead. As the Professor would say, this was a roaming predator, not a social worker. At the same time, it would worry me if Clark weren't looking into containment options first.

Interestingly, Steven S. DeKnight, the Season 5 - 6 supervising producer consulting on all episodes (and also the writer of one of your favourites, "Run" with Bart Allen), was highly resistant to Clark killing anyone, highly resistant to the usual situation of villains conveniently defeating themselves... and paradoxically/fascinatingly pushed for a situation where Clark would set out to kill a villain and be deeply troubled by it at the end, and he wanted it to end on an uncertain note.

I know I've been really down on SMALLVILLE and said Seasons 2 - 7 are bad, but I was mistaken. The main issue with SMALLVILLE is that the brilliant creators and showrunners, Alfred Gough and Miles Millar, were frequently absent, focusing on feature film scripts instead of writing and rewriting scripts for their TV show. As a result, staff writers often defaulted to freaks of the week as a safe area of easy showrunner approval; story arcs would not be consistent or coherent; nobody else seemed empowered to do rewrites on freelance stories or each other's scripts. Season 2 was a mess due to the absent leadership, Season 3 was stronger because Millar and Gough were more present that year, but Season 4 was a mess again.

However, Seasons 5 and 6 are absolutely great. I think it's all thanks to Steven S. DeKnight being brought in as supervising producer after "Run" and "Spirit" in Season 4. DeKnight's grasp of drama, banter, comedy, absurdity, superheroics and story arcs were honed to a fine art on ANGEL, and DeKnight seems so perfect for SMALLVILLE. More importantly, SMALLVILLE was not the first show where Steven S. DeKnight had worked for showrunners who didn't seem to be around; he'd been in a similar situation on ANGEL where Joss Whedon held total authority and yet wasn't there on a daily basis to lead the show.

DeKnight seemed to have a talent for identifying the absent showrunner's preferences and writing material that he was passionate about that the showrunner would readily approve. He seemed to have a similar ability to gauge what story ideas Gough and Millar would want to buy and what season-long arcs they'd approve. ANGEL had given DeKnight extensive experience in stewarding a show where he wasn't in charge.

This is probably why SMALLVILLE with DeKnight as supervising producer suddenly became a lot more coherent, dramatic, skillful and comedic, and it's probably why SMALLVILLE went from avoiding the issue of Clark maybe having to kill villains to confronting it head on and not trying to offer an easy answer.

DeKnight left after Season 6... which may be why I remember Season 7 being utterly terrible.

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Hey, I need to ask Slider_Quinn21 something. Given how controversial Henry Cavill was as Superman -- how did SQ21 feel when Clark killed Titan in Season 6, Episode 17, "Combat"?

Also, I've been rewatching the show, and while Seasons 2 and 4 are as bad as I recall, Season 1 is strong and Seasons 3 is very good, and Seasons 5 and 6 I would go so far as to call great. I am not at Season 7 yet, but I recall it being terrible.

My concern about a Batman movie featuring Batman and his homicidal 10 year old son Damian (as he is in the comics) -- movies are shot and go through post production over at least a year, and then pre-production has to set up the next film. If they hire a 10 year old actor to play Damian, he'll be at least 12 in the second film, 14 by the third, and so forth. How are they going handle this? Will Damian age with the actor, or will they hire a performer with a genetic predisposition to staying short and skinny?

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I'm scared, Greg.

I haven't lost hope... but sometimes, hope just fills me with fear because I know how much it will hurt if that hope is proven false.

And my spare room is currently filled with my mother's dialysis supplies and I cannot find the air mattress, so I am not sure I can offer Rob and his wife and kids a place to stay if he moves to Canada.

But it doesn't matter. My fear and hope won't change anything. There's only one thing that ever makes a difference.

Back to work.

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Well, I just started a new thread for the James Gunn era: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=487

All DC TV shows and animated productions from 1966 - 2024 can be discussed in the newly named DC Superheroes on TV & Streaming (1966 - 2024) thread: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=67

All DC feature films from 1943 - 2024 can be discussed in the DC Superheroes in Film (1943 - 2024) thread: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=60

We can talk about SMALLVILLE here: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=167

I hope that isn't too confusing. I'm already having to make exceptions:

  • The 1966 BATMAN film is discussed in the 1966 - 2024 TV thread (because it launched from the TV show)

  • THE BATMAN (2022) is discussed in the 2025 thread (because its sequel will be produced by James Gunn and we may as well cover the first installment in the same thread)

  • THE SUICIDE SQUAD (2021) and PEACEMAKER's first season in 2022 are also part of the 2025 thread (because both are James Gunn projects).

If someone has a better idea, lay it out and I'll see what can be done.

With the impending launch of James Gunn's DC Universe in theatrical films, streaming shows and animated productions, it's become necessary to start a new thread specifically for the James Gunn era: DC Superheroes in Cinema and Streaming (2025 and Onward).

The James Gunn era technically pre-dates 2025 with his film THE SUICIDE SQUAD (2021) and and his series PEACEMAKER (2022), in addition to CREATURE COMMANDOS which debuts in December 2024 and runs to January 2025 on MAX. The second season of PEACEMAKER will stream in 2025 and Gunn's DC cinematic era will launch in theatres with SUPERMAN on July 11, 2025.

THE BATMAN (2022) by Matt Reeves, while pre-dating James Gunn, will see a sequel during the James Gunn era and should be included here as well.

Since we can't say for sure how long Gunn will lead the DC film division (may it be a long and prosperous reign), it seems better to call this era the 2025 and Onward era while grandfathering in THE BATMAN, THE SUICIDE SQUAD and PEACEMAKER.

Meanwhile, we can continue to discuss the Arrowverse and all pre-Gunn DC TV shows in the DC Superheroes on TV & Streaming (1966 - 2024) thread: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=67

And we can keep talking about the DCEU, the Christopher Nolan Batman films, and all other pre-Gunn DC movies in the DC Superheroes in Film (1943 - 2024) thread: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=60

There is also a separate thread for SMALLVILLE: https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php?id=167

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I'd like to believe this, but ominous vagaries, even if they're in favour of my preferences, are still just ominous vagaries.

Given how self-incriminating Trump is already, I'm not optimistic there is any bombshell left to be had. Bombshells for Trump have become background noise, unfortunately.

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Which threads do you want renamed to what?

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Simon Rosenberg wrote:

Independent polls show Harris ahead 2-3-4 points and winning the electoral college. Red wave polls show Trump winning. Do not fall for their fuckery, peeps. We are winning this election but have not won it yet. We have 14 days now to go win it, together. https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/harr … -new-polls

I think Brad Schwartz is saving face with an untruth. The reality, from what I can tell, is that James Gunn could have wholeheartedly and totally supported more seasons of SUPERMAN AND LOIS and the CW would have still been reluctant to pay for it with their new budget reductions. When the CW can't even keep THE WINCHESTERS and WALKER: TEXAS RANGER going, it's going to struggle with SUPERMAN AND LOIS.

I'm also doubtful that James Gunn would have even been able to stop SUPERMAN AND LOIS if the CW were inclined to order another season. Gunn may certainly be in charge of in-house WB film and TV projects, but a CW Superman show comes from the CW network purchasing the licensing rights to Superman for a period of time with options to extend, and I can't imagine the CW not locking in those extensions even if they may waive them.

I don't know if there was any "supposed to". Most major network shows, studios and creators will hope for seven seasons of a TV show by default as an ideal point for streaming and broadcast sales for ad revenue and subscription earnings.

I can assure you that, no matter what the CW says, James Gunn did not get SUPERMAN AND LOIS cancelled. Ever since CW was purchased by Nexstar, there has been a mass cancellation of their scripted programming that operates at a higher price point than what the CW now prefers.

This network couldn't keep THE WINCHESTERS or WALKER: TEXAS RANGER on the air at this new budget ceiling, and SUPERMAN AND LOIS was the most expensive show on the CW. Its budget-reduced, truncated return for a fourth and final season was all the CW was willing to pay. Gunn did not shut this series down; the CW did.

It seems to me like the situation is another part of the budget reduction where some of the former cast can only be in three episodes because it's what production can afford to pay. Interestingly, on social media, this actor said that he wasn't going to be in the fourth season at all, only to later be seen in on-set photos.

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Trump's demands that Kamala be forced off are obviously projection: he is angry because Joe Biden was his preferred opponent.

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Someone previously posted when Trump got shot that the election was "over" and I thought that was nonsensical. So, when someone says Kamala will win and the election is over... I mean, that strikes me as magical thinking, not reality.

Simon Rosenberg:

The Vice President has a 2-3-4 point lead in the national popular vote, is closer to 270 in the battlegrounds and has far better favs/unfavs than Trump. She is better liked and more likable and that matters as people make up their mind in the closing days.

Our financial and ground advantages means more ads and direct voter contacts in the final days, making it far more likely we move a close election towards us than they move it towards them.

Be aware of the magnitude of the 2024 red wave effort. It has far bigger than 2022 and includes new actors like Polymarket and Elon. They are working hard to create the impression that the election is slipping away from us when it isn’t. And a reminder that they would only be flooding the zone with their polls again if they didn’t think they were winning the election.

Our candidate isn’t bat shit crazy and melting down on camera every day now. Our candidate isn’t a rapist, fraudster, traitor and 34 times felon, the oldest person to be the nominee of an American political party and the most dangerous political leader in all of our history.

https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/2-ne … ing-harris

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I am really scared.

But I am continuing to fulfill my responsibilities and do the things I need to do for myself and others.

I'm afraid, but I'm trying not to let it stop me from doing anything.

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I think Kamala going on FOX and Rogan demonstrates the willingness to reach beyond diehards and to reluctant voters.

I've rewatched Max Landis' video on Superman's power levels and how his only path is to save or conquer. I'd say... while a valid perspective, it's primarily focused on Superman's external superpowers and neglects more internal aspects.

Often, the argument is that power can reveal while absolute power will corrupt absolutely. The fantasy of Superman is that someone with great power would wield it almost entirely in service of civilization as a whole; and this person would, in using their power for themselves, only use it for harmless personal indulgences like eating lots of ice cream and never gaining weight (Dean Cain) or using superspeed to make up for sleeping in later (Tom Welling).

Often, it's claimed that this is implausible and unlikely that someone with this power would not use it to serve themselves.

In the "Leech" episode of SMALLVILLE, Clark's powers are transferred to an abused and bullied teenager named Eric Summers. Eric, shortly after discovering his superstrength, violently assaults his abusive father and his school bully. Clark asks his parents if they were ever afraid of Clark and Clark's strength. Jonathan says Clark had a few tantrums as a child and kicked some holes in walls, but never hurt anyone and never frightened Jonathan or Martha.

From a physiological standpoint, I offer this head canon: Clark's alien body absorbs and stores solar energy -- sunlight -- in a way that also makes Clark highly sensitive to light in all forms. Light is not just energy to Clark; it's sensory information that he can access via his super senses where his eyes can absorb vast levels of light and also magnify minute levels, and he can even perceive the way sound saves interact with light waves to hear small sounds and across great distances. Clark will amplify these super senses at times, but he's also living with heightened awareness in his daily life, in ways he reflexively tones down but doesn't tune out.

These super senses would give Clark an increased awareness of all the biological processes around him: when someone is hurt or sick or sad or lonely, Clark can subconsciously feel a reflected version of those sensations and emotions.

It wouldn't be to the degree where he's overwhelmed by them, and it largely manifests as super empathy and super compassion -- an innate awareness of the fragility of life around him. As a result, the young Clark, even when upset, was highly aware of how he could hurt his parents and restrained himself.

When Eric receives Clark's powers, Eric likely has the same perception of life around him being fragile -- but it manifests as contempt and dominance and as the sick pleasure of being able to inflict pain upon the people who tormented him who are now defenceless. Clark had the benefit of a loving and nurturing environment where the pain of others was met with understanding and support; Eric was raised by an abusive father who taught him that other people's pain was to be relished and to keep them in line, so his enhanced awareness of life becomes a form of superiority.

While I have a lot of issues with SMALLVILLE, for the most part, it believes that Superman's physical superpowers also come with super senses, and also super morality and super empathy. One version of Superman's comic book origin, BIRTHRIGHT, outright makes the super compassion textual by saying that Superman can see a field of light and life around all living beings and that it is emotionally and physically devastating for him when he sees that light die. For me, that's a little too overt and I would prefer it as something more subconscious yet present.

I admit, in saying the super senses can either manifest as empathy or superiority, we are back to saying that Superman could either save or conquer -- but I would also note that Tom Welling did an amazing job of showing Clark's gentleness and compassion in his performances, and his cautious screen presence certainly implies an awareness of how breakable the world is for Clark.

Who was this figure and what was your favourite analysis?

I'll remount it for you so you can have an alternate source.

I thought it was good. But... I question the merit of doing SUPERMAN AND LOIS where Superman is dead. It seems to defeat the purpose of having a Superman show.

I'm relieved that, despite the reductions, all of the cast will be present, even if they won't be in every episode.

The flashback to a thirtysomething Clark admitting to Lois that he's never had sex was hilarious.

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Simon Rosenberg:

Red Wave Pollsters Stepped Up Their Work This Week - The red wavers stepped up their activity this past week, releasing at least 20 polls across the battlegrounds. It’s a sign that they are worried about the public polling in both the Presidential and the Senate, and have dramatically escalated their efforts to push the polling averages to the right and make the election look redder than it is. As in 2022, these polls usually between 2 and 4 points more Republican than the independent polling so when there a lot of them they can move the averages rightward.

As I wrote in my last look at this rancid project, it is time for those who analyze polls to start acknowledging that there is now a third type of poll - the red wave, right-aligned narrative polling that only exist for a single purpose - to move the polling averages to the right. They are exploiting the “toss it in the averages and everything will work out philosophy” of these sites to once again launder these polls and game the averages - and thus our understanding of the election. Party leaders should expect them to keep these polls coming, and keep working the averages until it looks like Trump is winning in all polling averages. It is what they did in 2022, and it worked. They are doing it again this time, and once again it is working as the averages are moving and everyone is treating this movement like an organic rather than a deeply corrupt process.

https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/the- … aign-early

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One of the things I found frustrating about SMALLVILLE: Season 1 seemed to be gently laying the Clark/Lana romance to rest in the last third or so of the episodes and moving Chloe into the role of Clark's love interest. This made sense on every level: Chloe was directly involved in investigating the weekly villains and Clark's eventual wife is Lois Lane, a quippy, intrepid, adventurous journalist like Chloe.

Season 2 abruptly removed this and sidelined Chloe while making her obnoxiously jealous and ridiculously invested in wanting a boy who, for whatever reason, didn't want her back. This has always struck me as the showrunners reasserting control after the majority of the Season 1 writers left, with the studio, showrunners and network all wanting to sell the show on Kristin Kreuk's face alongside Tom Welling's and Michael Rosenbaum's, taking the view that Kreuk was the one they were paying to be the female lead, not Allison Mack. Chloe passive-aggressively told Clark she just wanted to be friends and immaturely got upset when he agreed.

Setting that aside -- why isn't Clark interested in Chloe? Tom Welling, in Talkville, offered this view: Clark and Chloe were friends trying to stretch their friendship into something it wasn't.

I have a different view, and I don't entirely believe my theory, but going by what's onscreen: my view is that Clark defaults to his attraction to Lana and dismisses his attraction because Lana wants normalcy and Clark wants to be a normal person. Lana's trauma over the meteor shower and preference for civilian life demands that Clark suppress and hide his alien side, which he wants to do to be a normal kid. Lana keeps Clark in his comfort zone.

Chloe doesn't do that: Chloe wants to explore the extraordinary and bizarre and alien, all the things that Clark is suppressing and hiding and avoiding in himself. Chloe's investigative nature unnerves Clark, makes him guarded and withdrawn. It maybe subconscious, but Clark avoids romancing someone who is too curious, too outspoken, too bold and too analytical because that curious, outspoken, bold, analytical person might uncover and reveal his secrets. Clark wants the ordinary, not the extraordinary.

However, when Clark meets Lois, there is a gradual shift. Lois may be a goofier, sillier version of Chloe, but there is a distinct difference: Lois adores both the ordinary and the extraordinary. Lois takes as much joy in small town barbeques and living on a farm as she does in battling mutants and investigating aliens. Lois makes Clark realize he can have both the ordinary and the extraordinary.

Chloe's never interested in ordinary life. Chloe's adulthood is defined by her support work for superheroes and she never wants to go back. Chloe has no interest in being a civilian, whereas Clark very much wants a civilian life. They were fundamentally opposed in what they wanted out of life.

That is my head canon and as someone who adored the Chlark ship, I only half believe it.

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It seems to me that the sequel did something you described GOTHAM doing with the Joker.

I'm not really a fan of villains on their own, this movie isn't for me. But it's interesting.

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So.

Nervous.

Simon Rosenberg wrote:

The election is here, and while I think we are winning today, we have not won it yet. https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/harr … ir-game-as

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Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I saw Joker.

I really don't know what to say about it.  It's a disturbing movie just because it's so dingy and dirty and gross, and the movie can manipulate you in certain ways so that you're expecting things to turn around for Arthur.  And I had to keep telling myself that this is a bad guy, and he's not getting a "happy ending" (although, for him, it's a happy ending).

It reminds me of BoJack Horseman.  That's a show that's so dark that it has to be a cartoon with anthropomorphic animals.  If it was about Will Arnett as a failed child actor, it'd be too depressing to watch. 

I feel like Joker only works because it's a comic book character.  If it was just about a downtrodden white man getting revenge on people, I think it'd be destroyed because it's absolutely the wrong movie for this time.  But since it's technically a comic book movie, it gets a pass.

Although it is barely a comic book movie.  Arthur shows almost none of the trademark characteristics of the Joker.  He's neither all that smart or all that cunning, and his success is more built on luck than anything else.  I think Arthur is someone that Batman would take out in a matter of seconds.  And the other comic book characters (Thomas Wayne, in particular) isn't a version of that character that I recognize - although he's designed to be built as a sort of villain.

At the end of the day, I think it's worth seeing, but I don't think it's a movie I really have any interest in revisiting.

"Arthur shows almost none of the trademark characteristics of the Joker.  He's neither all that smart or all that cunning."

Hmm!

I haven't seen the sequel to JOKER and I don't plan too, but I've been reading articles about it. Hmm!

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Wow. I will probably carve out some time to read it on Saturday.

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Why Trump is so much angrier at women this year:
https://www.salon.com/2024/09/25/donald … l-in-line/

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Why the Trump watches are garbage:
https://www.thebulwark.com/p/everything … ed-to-know

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What does a Trump surrender look like? Simon Rosenberg says it looks like this:

He is doing about one third the number of rallies he did in 2016 and his crowds are thin. He is now spending a lot of his time hawking watches, coins, sneakers, a fraudulent media company, Bibles, books, crypto to his supporters, diverting money from his campaign to line his pockets, apparently preparing for his life after his nine years of grifting off politics ends in a few months.

None of this money is going into the campaign. It is going to him.

My bottom line right now is that the election is close but things have been getting better for us since the debate. We are ahead in the national popular vote and we are closer to 270 than Trump. Our continued strength in MI, PA, WI is a big problem for them, as is the epic Robinson meltdown in NC and the blue dot in Nebraska. While there have been some bumpy polls in AZ, we’ve had good ones too (above). Essentially what the polls show us today is that we can win the election. It is an opportunity. With huge advantages in money, volunteers/field, enthusiasm and crowd sizes (really important) we should be able to close stronger than them. We just have more capacity right now to move the election towards us than they do to them.

Weeks and weeks of us beating them on paid media, generating far more compelling organic social content (vs. their ongoing ugliness) and reaching more voters on the ground is going to take its toll on them. It is possible that some of that good polling we saw this week is evidence of our superior campaign starting to move the needle as voters start to really check in. We are just touching more people in more powerful ways than they are, and over time that is really going to matter. We are winning this election right now my friends. Now, together, we have to do the work to make sure we win it.

https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/been … r-the-blue

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Simon Rosenberg says The New York Times polls are completely unreliable and little more than outliers. He says he will not spend any more time taking them apart.

The NYT poll is just one poll among many, and should not dictate our understanding of the race or current trends, nor am I going to any more spend dissecting this new data. I and we have better things to do. We have an election to go win.

https://www.hopiumchronicles.com/p/winn … -gop-keeps

I really hope I don't come to regret sharing so much Simon Rosenberg stuff. Just because he says things in a fact-oriented fashion and is saying what I want to hear doesn't mean he's right. I can only be cautiously optimistic.

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One of the most derided aspects of Smallville: Jor-El. The character makes no sense. Jor-El's harsh and threatening attitude to Clark later shifts towards Jor-El being a benign father like in other Superman adaptations, and then reverts and then ricochets back and forth. Jor-El's nonsensical characterization from 2003 - 2011, while obnoxiously incoherent, is a strangely accurate and prescient depiction of current problems and challenges in artificial intelligence.

Jor-El is first introduced at the end of Season 2 and explicitly identified as a computer program, a representation of the real Jor-El, carrying  "his memory and his will", carrying out the wishes of Clark's deceased biological father. From the start, this artificial intelligence version of Jor-El is disturbing.

Translation Errors

The Jor-El AI first imprints Krpytonian language into Clark's brain and enables Clark to read Jor-El's first message. It says: "On this third planet from this star Sol, you will be a god among men. They are a flawed race. Rule them with strength, my son. That is where your greatness lies."

Clark is horrified, exclaiming to his adoptive father, Jonathan Kent, "I think I was sent here to conquer. What kind of planet am I from!?"

This first message is particularly odd in light of later episodes where Jor-El's plans for Clark are fully revealed: Jor-El's goal is for Clark to "protect Earth" and humanity from the Kryptonian fascist General Zod, that Clark's destiny is to serve as a "beacon" whose "example" of heroism will "guide" humanity.

Furthermore, this message is a dark inversion on the classic Superman film where Marlon Brando's Jor-El calls humanity a race with tremendous "potential for good".

AI Lacks Cultural and Situational Nuance

In a fictional context, it's like the AI's language module, imprinted to Clark, has made a translation error from Kryptonian to English, conflating "god" with "beacon", "rule" with "guide", "strength" with "example" "flawed race" with "potential for good", leading to a message translated without nuance or awareness of human/Kryptonian cultural distinctions.

In reality, the writers were seeding the idea that the AI Jor-El was an impostor; the voice of Terence Stamp (the evil Zod of the classic Superman films) implied as much. The writers ultimately stuck with this version of Jor-El, creating an inconsistency. And yet, this inconsistency reflects real world AI problems of 2022 - 2024 era AI.

Smallville's Kryptonians, shown in flashback, are not colonizers or conquerors, but isolationists. Kryptonians do, however, believe in dominance -- not of sentient life, but of their own planetary ecosystems: terraforming, artificial weather, resource management, etc.. In addition, Kryptonians also refer to their sun, Rao as a god - -except in Kryptonian culture, the sun is a source of light, warmth, learning and enlightenment. What Kryptonians call a 'god' would in English be a teacher and a friend.

The Jor-El AI has failed to consider these mismatches between Kryptonian-and human language and culture.

Inaccuracy for Complexity

This is extremely an extremely accurate portrayal of how real world AI often struggles with cultural and situational context, semantic errors, linguistic dominance and consistency, creating outputs that are technically correct but contextually incorrect or even nonsensical.

For example, Google Translate can sometimes produce bizarre prophecies from mundane words due to misapplying training data from religious text. At times, "Good morning" in Arabic has been AI-mistranslated into "Attack them" due to homophone and homonym misidentification (similar sounding or spelled words getting confused) and idiomatic confusion (colloquialisms and regional phrasings).

Real AI models are also biased towards English which creates translations that can't accurately depict complex concepts from other languages or and struggle to maintain a consistent tone or perspective.

Given Jor-El's eventual revelations about Clark's destiny to be Earth's hero, the real message was likely: "On this third planet from this star Sol, you will be a beacon to all. They are a race filled with potential for good. Guide them with your example, my son. That is where your destiny lies."

In this case, the Jor-El AI has a bias towards Kryptonian language without nuance for English. The message of human potential needing light and guidance has been mis-translated into a harsh judgement on humanity as "a flawed race". Jor-El's message about stewardship, guidance, and serving as a beacon by example has been warped into a message of authoritarianism while the real message prioritized guidance and inspiration.

Incoherent Behaviour

The Jor-El AI also demonstrates an incoherent attitude towards Clark's human identity and the role Kryptonian culture is to play in Clark's life. In the Season 3 finale and the Season 4 premiere, Jor-El seeks to suppress the Clark Kent personality and implement a new identity in Clark's body, Kal-El, who is wholly compliant with Kryptonian values and Jor-El's orders, seeking to retrieve Kryptonian artifacts scattered across Earth.

The enforced identity is only repelled by Clark's adoptive mother, Martha, using black Kryptonite to restore the real Clark. However, Jor-El later declares that his goal is to train Clark in the use of his powers, no longer attempting to brainwash Clark into compliance. The shift in tactics is not explained. Later, it's declared that all of Jor-El's actions were to position Clark as humanity's protector to prevent an invasion of Earth by the Kryptonian fascist Dru-Zod.

Jor-El's opinions of humanity are also oddly contradictory. Initially, Jor-El declares that Clark must abandon his human connections and all his friends and family. When Clark balks, Jor-El proceeds to inflict pain on Clark by horribly scarring Clark with a flesh-burned brand of the House of El S-shield. But later, Jor-El thanks Martha Kent for raising Clark and serving as a light in Clark's life and declares that Clark's heroism is due to his life in Smallville and his upbringing with Jonathan and Martha.

Throughout the show, Jor-El often punishes Clark whenever Clark prioritizes rescuing humans over Jor-El's missions; he freezes Clark in ice or suppresses Clark's powers. Yet, Jor-El declares Clark's mission is to protect humanity, and when Clark nearly kills a human enemy, Jor-El disowns Clark for almost taking someone's life and declares Clark is no longer his son.

This is nonsensical characterization: two sets of values and tactics that are mutually exclusive. Yet, it's actually a very accurate depictions of 2022 - 2024 era AI problems and challenges: conflicting objectives and contradictory directives.

AI Misalignment

In this case, the Jor-El AI has clearly been programmed with specific modules, each with a specific goal and a set of tactics for training Clark.

These modules include but aren't limited to: a module to defeat General Zod; a module to continue the Kryptonian legacy through Clark; a module to punish Clark; a module to provide physical and tactical learning; a module to support Clark's growth and maturity; an ethical and moral training module to position Clark as a protector of Earth -- many of which are in conflict if not in their goals, then in their methods.

Anti-Zod Module

The anti-Zod module's priority seems to be defeating Zod, the fascist who sought to conquer Krypton and upon defeat chose to destroy the planet. This module views Clark as the means by which the Jor-El AI can assemble and mount defenses against General Zod; it threatens Clark when he has other concerns; it doesn't care about Clark's friends, family or human goals, and has little concern for human life beyond acknowledging that defeating Zod would protect humans.

Legacy Module

The Kryptonian legacy module's priority seems to be for Clark to represent Krypton's otherwise lost history, language and culture. This module focuses on severing Clark's human connections, declaring that his family and friends are to be discarded in favour of Kryptonian missions and Kryptonian rites and rituals.

It seeks to imprint Kryptonian language, knowledge and messaging into Clark's mind and to ultimately remove any importance Clark might place on any life in human society. It also has no interest Clark's human life and identity, instead valuing only Clark's body for an imprinted and compliant Kal-El personality under the AI Jor-El's command.

Disciplinary Module

The disciplinary module's priority seems to be attuned to identifying when Clark is resisting the anti-Zod or Kryptonian-legacy directives. When Clark chooses to save humans or prioritizes his human life, the disciplinary module strips Clark of power at moments of crisis; it freezes him, it burns him, it threatens him.

Poor Awareness

These three modules are operating in parallel to the physical and tactical learning module, which seeks to train Clark without suppressing his human identity: it provides lessons for Clark to control each of his powers and apply them; it indicates what Clark's upper limits are and what may be causing his present limitations of strength, speed and flight; it seeks to teach Clark in his human identity instead of replacing it.

The first three modules (anti-Zod, Kryptonian legacy, disciplinary) demonstrate a lot of real world AI problems. Jor-El, like a lot of AI today, has poor contextual awareness; he doesn't evaluate situations in terms of human danger, only specific mission goals.

Jor-El displays an obvious AI bias; he is slanted towards Kryptonian preservation, and undervalues human life. Jor-El demonstrates a limited adaptability to dynamic situations, instead responding with rigid prioritization of original goals. As a result, his decisions and punishments are inconsistent and incoherent, morally unsound, and unwarrantedly harsh.

Growth and Maturity Module

In addition, the three anti-Zod, legacy and disciplinary modules are completely at odds with the growth and maturity module which serves to shepherd Clark from youth to adulthood via what it calls "trials", and recognizes that Clark's human upbringing with Jonathan and Martha and Clark's time in Smallville have provided a strong moral framework for how Clark will use his powers.

This module thanks Martha Kent for raising Clark well and seems devoted to helping Clark master his emotions and his physical reactions, even working in tandem with the moral and tactical module to teach Clark how to restrain his strength for intimacy. But it is in stark contrast to the Kryptonian legacy module that declared Martha and other humans were unnecessary encumbrances. 

Ethical and Moral Module

The final module of note in this theoretical framework is the ethical and moral module, which is in stark opposition to the anti-Zod, legacy, and disciplinary modules. The ethical and moral module's goal is to train Clark to be Earth's hero. It prioritizes protecting human life, even the lives of human enemies. It challenges Clark to save humans more efficiently when the anti-Zod module punished Clark for saving them. It warns Clark against aggression and "darkness" instead of simply using mind control and identity replacement.

It rebukes Clark for nearing killing a Lex Luthor clone when the first three modules were indifferent to human harm.

Contrary Goals

These issues are an extremely realistic portrayal of 2022 - 2024 AI issues. AI is often programmed with goals that, from a machine standpoint, can seem mutually exclusive. AI is frequently given directives -- tactics and strategies -- to achieve its goals, only to find those directives are in in opposition or can work towards some goals while interfering with others. AI often lacks situational and contextual nuance.

For example, AI that's asked to create a product assembly workflow of efficiency and safety will often fail. It will present either a high-efficiency but high-risk process that skips inspections and safety checks and endangers human life; alternatively, it might present a zero-risk workflow that makes it impossible to consistently manufacture anything. It lacks the balance and understanding to reconcile the opposing values of efficiency and safety; it isn't sure how to make appropriate trade-offs and it defaults to extreme positions.

In this case, the Jor-El AI has been programmed with competing goals: to train Clark as humanity's defender but maintain Kryptonian culture; to represent Krypton wholly but to guide humans morally within human culture; to protect humans in all circumstances while prioritizing Zod's defeat.

The AI has also been programmed with oppositional directives: punishment and moral guidance; isolationism with social development. This, combined with translation errors, has created a severely misaligned AI system that causes Jor-El to be inconsistent, erratic, and perpetually at extreme ends of his behavioural spectrum.

Poor Learning

In addition, the Jor-El AI demonstrates some capacity for adaptive learning, but in a highly inconsistent and unreliable fashion. Despite claiming that Clark has made great strides and achieving a more harmonious relationship, the Jor-El AI regularly defaults to punishing, attacking and threatening Clark and eventually refuses to speak with him.

The AI clearly adapts to recognize that Clark's human experiences and connections are valuable and vital to Clark's destiny, yet it can't seem to consistently apply this learning to future interactions.

This is a very common problem in real world AI systems: AI often struggles to learn new data and adapt its response accordingly. AI will often review a piece of writing and note flaws, then review a corrected draft and note the same flaws anyway, warping existing information or generating false information in order to justify its reiterated criticisms.

This is because AI can suffer from algorithmic rigidity, where it can't always adapt its programming to new information and defaults to its initial response and original programming. This is a flaw of overfitting to original inputs alongside to limited memory where AI can lack the storage capacity to track progression and development. This creates instances where an AI might learn something and even recall it but fail to apply it consistently to other situations.

Poor Emotional Intelligence

The most glaring problem with the Jor-El AI is a lack of emotional intelligence. The Jor-El AI punishes Clark for prioritizing human welfare and for refusing to adopt Kryptonian culture despite Clark being the only Kryptonian on Earth. Jor-El also presents a message of conquest and authoritarianism on their first interaction and orders Clark to abandon his family with no regard for Clark's emotional bonds.

This lack of emotional intelligence is extremely common in real world AI systems. Many chatbots, when conversing with users about grief and frustration, will respond with tone-deaf or overly literal outputs that aren't informed by any recognition of the users' emotional states. AI human resources software often fails to evaluate the interpersonal skills and value systems of candidates.

This is because AI doesn't have the depth of social experience that humans possess, and the inner life of AI is algorithmic and programmatic rather than emotional or experiential.

The overall sense, from a real world AI standpoint of 2024, is that Jor-El built this AI in a slapdash fashion with a lot of hackwork and cut corners. This is probably due to the fact that Jor-El had to assemble this AI system under the pressure of learning that his planet was soon to explode.

The Original Creator

The 'real' Jor-El appears on Smallville in Season 9 as a biological man, a Kryptonian, albeit a clone. Jor-El, played by Julian Sands, is in stark contrast to the AI: he is kind, gentle, diplomatic, noble, and compassionate; he is nothing like his AI counterpart and the inconsistency is left a mystery.

In Season 10, Clark receives a message recorded by the real Jor-El before his death, again played by Julian Sands. Jor-El tells Clark: "I am sending with you all my knowledge. None of my ego or regret. They will die with me here on Krypton."

The implication is that due to this omission, Jor-El unintentionally removed the key parts of his personality that create empathy, understanding, familial connections, warmth, and the personal touch.

As a result, the AI has a simplified moral framework of extreme black and white terms, leading to a harsh, strict and rigid pattern of behaviour that is contradicted by opposing modules of guidance and learning.

Poorly Made

The Jor-El AI is, despite its capabilities, a poorly made system. The flaws seem to originate from a lack of thorough testing (especially in high crisis situations), a failure to address ethical considerations and biases, a total lack of documentation, and no maintenance and updates for patches.

Due to Krypton's destruction, the lack of updates and patches is perhaps understandable; less so is the shocking lack of security where anyone seems to be able to break into the Fortress at any time and damage the AI interface. However, due to the stress and impossible situation in which Jor-El built this AI deathtrap, perhaps he should be excused.

Regardless, the problems with the Jor-El AI are alarming. While every AI system today has all of these problems, no AI system in our world has the capacity to imprint overriding personalities, encase people in ice, drain lifeforce from their bodies or inflict burns and brands on people's flesh (although I'm sure there's a drone system out there that can do something like that and could someday be AI controlled).

Accidentally Insightful

It's incredibly amusing that the writers, due to having an extremely inconsistent take on the Jor-El AI in 2003 - 2011, inadvertently captured all the problems with artificial intelligence from 2022 onward. Watched on original broadcast, the Jor-El character is erratic, written without intention or foresight beyond his use as a plot device to hinder or help Clark as needed in each episode. The characterization is obnoxious and frustrating.

Watched today, the Jor-El AI is a strangely prescient portrayal of real world AI problems: conflicting objectives, opposing directives, translation errors, poor learning, limited adaptability, unreliable performance and limited to non-existent emotional intelligence -- all of which AI developers struggle with now. What was once incompetence has now become insightful, and it's entirely accidental.

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Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I know that early mail-in voting reports indicate that there's a smaller edge on likely Democratic votes than likely Republican votes than there was in 2020, but I think people are forgetting that people are much more likely to vote in person than they were in 2020.  I just hope battleground Kamala voters vote early as opposed to voting on election day to avoid the intimidation-like behavior I'm expecting MAGA to try in those states.

Simon Rosenberg has been very big on voting ASAP, as early as possible.

I'm pretty freaked out by all of it, albeit less frightened than with Biden, but still pretty darn scared. With Biden, my terror was at a nine out of ten. With Kamala, I'm at... seven to seven and a half.

I guess I'll just try to focus on work.

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Exhaustive discussions over "language" are fine and dandy, but are as actionable as me farting into the wind.  The uber-sensitivity only stifles inventive thought, and divides, it only divides.  The first amendment allows for it, as simply being crass with language is protected, and one should not fear for that.  The outrage police have soiled political discourse, particularly on the left, and driven a mass of people towards the Orange menace.  In fact, I would say that besides inflation, it's up there in 2nd place for driving left of center folk into Trump's small hands.  There has been a high level clampdown on free thought and discourse, which largely came out of the COVID paranoia, and has increasingly turned younger generations off.

Aside from the "fine and dandy" part, this comment strikes me as a defence coming from a person may often be very careless with language, who might regularly offend others, who dislikes discussions of this nature because then they have to confront how they may have regularly offended and upset others with their words.

When someone claims that examining "crass" language can only stifle and divide, it sounds to me like they don't want to be held accountable or responsible for their own words.

I also observe that people who complain they are being stifled and divided by analyzing language will often try to stifle review of their words and divide their protest across various excuses: they claim they shouldn't be held responsible for anything they said because they didn't think it through or they posted it a long time ago or their words weren't meant to be reviewed or they don't remember writing it or they shouldn't have to take responsibility for anything they said on the internet or passingly or ever.

It seems to me that this is the response of someone for whom words have often blown up in their faces. I think someone like this will often blame others for being oversensitive and restrictive; they will dismiss examinations of language; they will attempt to intimidate by claiming that calling for awareness of the weight and power of words are an attack on civil liberties and personal freedoms.

I think they do this because their words have exposed them when analyzed and they don't like what's revealed. I pulled all of that with Allison Mack's webmaster. I see what my words back then reveal about me and I feel just awful about it.

I should have seen that instead of this woman being oversensitive to words, I was reckless with them. Instead of restricting me, she needed me to be more responsible. Instead of impeding my liberties and freedoms by questioning my words, she needed me to understand what words can do and how they need to be wielded with care.

I could have been compassionate but realistic, empathetic yet factual. And maybe, if I hadn't been derisive, scornful and mocking, this woman wouldn't have gone on the defensive and gotten in deeper with Allison Mack.

I will not be so arrogant as to claim full responsibility for this web designer's choices. I'm sure there are lots of unfortunate reasons why this web designer joined Mack's cult, but I wish I hadn't given her one more.

People are responsible for the words they use and for how their words reflect their character and values, and the world has every right to analyze what they -- or I -- post in public, even and especially if some of us may deeply regret what we've said.

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My post about political anxiety in Canada was referring to a conservative Canadian politician who is likely to be the next Canadian prime minister. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pierre_Poilievre He's basically Donald Trump lite in Canada. I will not vote for him, but many will; the current prime minister (for whom I will grudgingly vote) has managed to alienate progressives and centrists alike. Even people who might support the (supposedly) progressive party will not support its present leader.

SliderQuinn21 wrote:

And people are struggling.  The problem is that Donald Trump has zero regard for them, and he wouldn't help them if he could.  He'll help them if it also helps him, but that's about where it ends.

To me, his base is an abused wife that stays with him even though he's constantly abusive.  He cheats on her, and he hits her.  And yet she loves him, and she believes his lies.  I hate Trump, but I pity his supporters.  I really think they simply don't know any better, and they'll follow him to their own doom.

You may wish to consider caution with this metaphor.

I am not saying you have done anything inappropriate, and this is not a reprimand, but a confession: I have used this metaphor in the past, and I was wrong to do so, and I deeply regret it.

I do not think you are wrong to use it, but speaking only for myself: I have elected to retire this one from my own usage.

I once knew a woman who was the webmaster for Hollywood actress Allison Mack. This woman was regularly posting about how Chloe was her favourite character on SMALLVILLE and at one point declared that Chloe was the most important character in the series. At that point, I snarked -- and I should not have -- that Chloe's two minutes of screentime across most episodes made her trivial and irrelevant and that anyone who called Chloe a lead character was like a...

Well, you know what I said. I won't say it twice. I shouldn't have even said it once.

This web designer was deeply hurt and upset, and I blew it off, and I shouldn't have done that either.

At one point, she accidentally instant messaged me, sharing some difficulties with Allison Mack. I would take this opportunity to 'apologize', but not, I think, as sincerely as I would now; I said I'd been unwell and unhappy, but I think I was using illness as an excuse. She deserved better from me and deserved a sincere message of regret and responsibility from me.

In recent years, the world learned: Allison Mack was running a cult, she was physically and emotionally abusive to those she inducted into her cult. She had inducted this woman, this wonderful web designer, into her cut. She was abusing this woman savagely. This means my remark about this web designer was both grossly inappropriate and savagely accurate, and the accuracy of my comment actually makes it all the more cruel, insensitive and shameful on my part.

I have thought about the situation with Allison Mack and her web designer a lot, and about my words. I have concluded that I should have used a different metaphor.

I should have likened the situation to someone in a pyramid scheme who constantly thinks their big payout is coming soon (it isn't) or someone in a cult who constantly thinks the ascension is any day now (it's not) or to a politician insisting they can win when their fundraising and support have fallen through the floor or to SLIDERS fans who constantly thought that with one more season, John and Jerry and Sabrina and Tracy would come back (they wouldn't).

Is your use of this metaphor apt? I think so... but it's a sensitive area and I have learned not to make light of this subject. This is not a reprimand. I am not saying you have done anything wrong. I am saying it was wrong for *me* to use the metaphor that I did. I should not have done it. I won't do it again.

You aren't me. The subject to which you apply this metaphor is not the same. Your use of it is not the same. For one thing, you are speaking about a media appearance, not a private person. For another, you are describing the situation generally as opposed to directing it towards a specific individual. My mistakes are not yours.

Since we're friends, I merely wish to share my own contemplations on this, for you to use or dismiss as you see fit, and you can come to your own conclusions and decisions. Thank you for attending my TED Talk.

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I think my terror is probably about us here in Canada, where we are staring down the barrel of an election where the advantage is with this climate change dismissing looney toon who is basically Trump lite.

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i have gone from a terrible sense of doom to a moderate sense of doom.

There was a time when I was so angry at Jerry O'Connell for so many failures and betrayals.

But I think, if I'm being more honest with myself: I was angry with him because his existence and his public persona were a constant reminder of an unchangeable truth. A fact that I didn't like to acknowledge or admit. A reality that William Shatner touches on in his song, "Real":

William Shatner wrote:

I have saved the world in the movies
So naturally there's folks who think
I must know what to do.

But just because you've seen me on your TV
Doesn't mean I'm any more enlightened than you.

I'd love to help the world
and all its problems.
But I'm an entertainer,
and that's all.

So the next time
there's an asteroid
or a natural disaster
I'm flattered
that you thought of me
But I'm not the one to call.

And while there's a part of me in that guy you've seen
Up there on that screen,
I eat and sleep and breathe and bleed and feel.

I wish I knew the things you think I do
I would change this world for sure.

Sorry to disappoint you, but I'm real.

After looking at the material, I do not think that finding and scanning theatrical prints of THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is a good use of anyone's time or effort.

The only reason to locate and scan a print of this nature is to restore the 1980 theatrical cut. But unlike STAR WARS and RETURN OF THE JEDI, the blu-ray version of EMPIRE is very easily returned to its original version. EMPIRE had very few changes made.

The very few non-HD shots and effects that need to be reinstated to the blu-ray version, even if sourced from low-resolution DVD, are easily matched to the blu-ray footage because those effects were mostly in motion, looked more painterly than photorealistic, and the upscaling blur isn't going to make them seem out of place.

The changes made to STAR WARS and RETURN OF THE JEDI were harder to undo: restoring the original versions of Tatooine, Mos Eisley, the Death Star and the final battle required a lot of cross-sourcing to rebuild it. RETURN, while having more isolated changes, had so many key shots altered or replaced in Jabba's palace and the Ewok celebration that a DESPECIALIZED version has to use a lot of mismatched SD and HD material and fade back and forth between them, sometimes in the same shot.

But EMPIRE doesn't have that mismatch problem. Most of the missing HD material is meant to be blurred by motion or due to being a matte painting. A high quality theatrical print of EMPIRE would not look very different from the DESPECIALIZED version.

The only real issue with the DESPECIALIZED version of EMPIRE is that it was made in 720p, largely because the upscaled DVD footage didn't scale well to 1080p, and even modern AI upscaling has addressed that gap; a 1080p upscale of EMPIRE looks as good as the denoised theatrical print scan of STAR WARS.

I don't think EMPIRE will benefit from finding any more prints to scan.

After some review... I'm forced to conclude that an upscaled from 720p to 1080p DESPECIALIZED EMPIRE is preferable to 4K80 EMPIRE, at least for me.

The 4K project was very fortunate in finding some solid theatrical prints of STAR WARS and a fantastic one of RETURN. What they found for EMPIRE, however, is really dirty, flickery and grainy and has an uncomfortably faded, slightly fuzzy quality even under the graininess and even after all the cleanup.

DESPECIALIZED, being based on the blu-ray, doesn't have that issue. The DEPSECIALIZED EMPIRE, as reconstructions go, doesn't really have that much to DESPECIALIZE. The majority of the new special effects were in the new shots of the Hoth monster (which the fan editor simply cut) and the new effects in Cloud City which the editor restored. That and other small restorations (getting the lightsabers to be the right colour, adding back matte lines) were all that was really needed since the SPECIAL EDITION added so little to EMPIRE.

I would probably stick with DESPECIALIZED for EMPIRE. Since it was a 720p file upscaled to 1080p for consistency with me, it doesn't even look that different from the soft but clear versions of 4K77 STAR WARS and 4K83 RETURN OF THE JEDI, as the AI upscale softened the DESPECIALIZED EMPIRE.

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I'm looking forward to seeing it. I mean, having sat through all of the TERMINATOR movies, I might as well weather through whatever this is, although I've heard good things.

Another piece of TERMINATOR writing I'd like to finish reading: a fan wrote 28 (!!) screenplays wrapping up THE SARAH CONNOR CHRONICLES with a virtual Season 3 of 22 episodes and a virtual Season 4 of five episodes and a feature length finale screenplay. I've read the first one and it's precisely the show I remember, from Josh Friedman's sardonic and militaristic tone to the omnipresent shadow of war and violence over every scene.

https://tib.cjcs.com/terminator-the-con … c-project/

My suspicion is that 80 - 90 percent of viewers would choose DESPECIALIZED over the digital print scans because DESPECIALIZED is mostly sharp and looks mostly modern while the scans are grainy, noisy, and also not as sharp. I'm basing this on how RussianCabbie prefers the hypersaturated version of BACK TO THE FUTURE over the more authentic desaturated version because RussianCabbie, in my view, has extremely normal, mainstream preferences for video quality.

I personally am not a DESPECIALIZED person, but I think I'm in the minority.

Grizzlor wrote:

What I am getting at is that even this rotoscoping you're mentioning, I don't want that either.

If you don't want DESPECIALIZED to use rotoscoping, I'm not sure how you expect DESPECIALIZED to even exist.

Rotoscoping: a technique usually used by animators use to trace over live action footage, creating an outline around a visual element. Used in animation, the outline can be used for an illustration. Used in film compositing, the visual element within the outline can be copied, and then placed on a different piece of footage.

Rotoscoping effects in the DESPECIALIZED editions: This refers to drawing an outline around a special effect from the theatrical version of a film (from DVD or a theatrical film print). The effect is copied. The effect is then placed over the blu-ray version of the footage to cover the SPECIAL EDITION effect with the theatrical version of the effect.

Rotoscoping is the means by which the DESPECIALIZED editions were created. If you don't want the blu-ray SPECIAL EDITIONS and you don't want DESPECIAIZED using rotoscoping to put the original effects back in place, what do you want DESPECIALIZED to do and why were you interested in it at all?

That said, I'm shifting away from DESPECIALIZED. It was great when first released, but I think I'm happier with digital scans of theatrical prints. Those scans were years away from being released when DESPECIALIZED first hit the internet.

DESPECIALIZED, because it starts with the blu-rays, may be as sharper in most scenes, but the sourced-from-DVD or print material doesn't match the rest of it. You sometimes get an HD Luke against an SD matte painting, or HD interiors of X-Wing fighter pilots intercut with SD exteriors of the X-Wings themselves.

Digital scans of film prints, while a little softer, are consistent throughout. Of course, a lot of people may prefer DESPECIALIZED because they find the hyper grainy look of the digital scans more distracting than DESPECIALIZED being a bit schizophrenic in sharpness. I personally decided to run the digital scans through an AI grain normalization process -- not to remove the grain, just to make it the same in one scene as it is in all others.