4,021

(927 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

It's an odd paradox where the Marvel Cinematic Universe is largely a bloodless one. The Battle of New York in AVENGERS was in many ways nonsensically low key in terms of collateral damage. It makes absolutely no sense that Hawkeye's quiver of arrows and Black Widow's handguns could maintain any kind of perimeter that kept the attacks confined to a handful of blocks -- which is the explanation given onscreen.

Slider_Quinn21 was fine with it, Informant and I thought it was stupid. But I did applaud the effort, the genuinely well-intended goal that the Avengers were focused on containing the battle and isolating it from the civillians. It's a key point in the visuals.

AGE OF ULTRON takes the same style, only this time, it makes narrative sense: the focus is on evacuation and AGENTS OF SHIELD spent half a season building up a secret weapon of inestimable power -- the weapon turns out to be a Helicarrier and its power is to evacuate the innocent. It's a bit like SUPERGIRL for me where so long as the values are appreciable and meaningful and the visual storytelling has momentum and drive, I'm willing to go with it -- and ULTRON was far more coherent than the Battle of New York. Nobody complained that the Avengers were indifferent to human life.

In terms of MAN OF STEEL and BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN, it's a constant complaint. Universal among most of the reviewers. Most of the reviewing audience remarked on Superman's flat emotional affect, his deadened expression, his lack of warmth and charm -- and while that doesn't require that any individual person to agree with that, this sample size would indicate that a sizable segment of the audience found Superman unpleasant.

And I think it's simply because the editing and shot composition were not focused on Superman saving lives and sequences of him performing humanitarian acts were undoubtedly scripted and filmed -- but cut. The MAN OF STEEL treatment includes a segment where Clark tries to fly Zod away from Metropolis; I suspect it was cut because the creators felt the shots of Superman smashing through skyscrapers was more exciting. It is likely, given the original running length of BVS, that we were going to see more of Clark rescuing the space shuttle and the flood victims and trying to save someone, anyone, in the Senate explosion -- but this was cut in favour of shorthanding it to individual shots of Superman standing at a distance.

As a result, even though the dialogue says Superman cares about people and tries to help them, the visuals are not there to *sell* it. For the Marvel Cinematic Universe, however, the visuals are absolutely there; Cap setting up an evacuation route in AVENGERS, IRON MAN III's standout sequence being Tony saving freefalling plane passengers, AGE OF ULTRON's action climax being an emergency evacuation. With MAN OF STEEL and BVS, saving people was incidental to fighting -- and since it was incidental, it was considered expendable and cut from the film.

In LOIS AND CLARK, there's an amusing episode where Superman is refereeing a Little League baseball game and gamely enduring the taunts of a child complaining about one of his calls. I can't really see Henry Cavill doing that, but that's one of the absurdist aspects of superheroes I tend to enjoy and the Warner Bros. studio clearly does not enjoy.

4,022

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm sorry to hear that. It's a shame there's no way to aggregate the reviews in full. Should I read the released version or would it be much the same as the preview copy you sent me?

I also really like the cover. It's a sharp piece of work. I've been struggling with graphics on my SLIDERS project. I have modern day photos of all the actors and I was able to create 125 x 125 pixel images of them in the same frame, but when Matt boosted the image sizes to 800 x 300 pixels, the images were no longer convincing. I eventually gave up and created a banner where four silhouettes representing the sliders stand before San Francisco. I searched stock image sites until I found silhouettes that resembled the original four.

I also made a version of a 1995 promo shot of Jerry where his 1995 face is now his 2015 face but with the same hair. Matt called it creepily disturbing and insisted it was mismatched and the head was too big, but I polled random people in the street and nobody complained. Well, they complained about being accosted by a stranger, but they couldn't find anything wrong with the photo.

It was also really tough to find a modern photo of Robert Floyd with the right expression for the Mallory script I'm writing. I eventually found this YouTube interview where he's cheerfully talking about making cocktails and I found just the right frame where he's about to smile, but paused right where his face when frozen looks impassioned and desperate.

4,023

(927 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The thing about the city-scale fights in AVENGERS, WINTER SOLDIER and AGE OF ULTRON is that the entire planet would have been destroyed if the Avengers hadn't intervened, whereas Superman didn't seem to make much effort to shift the battle out of Metropolis or Smallville in MAN OF STEEL. It's also a problem in BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN, where Superman is shown to be hovering above a flooded town but making no effort to save people, rescuing someone from a garment factory fire but not putting out the fire, standing in the midst of an explosion without any attempt to try to get a few people out of the blast and to the hospital.

The weird, weird, weird thing is that the MAN OF STEEL script treatment indicated that Superman tries to move the Kryptonian fights away from populated areas, but they keep knocking him back into the buildings. The dialogue in BVS makes it clear that Superman did save the people in the flood and attempted to put out the fire and tried to get people to the hospital -- but all these onscreen moments were apparently cut from the final edit, which is why Superman seems cold and indifferent.

In AVENGERS and AGE OF ULTRON, the heroes saving civillians was thoroughline connecting every action setpiece, although Informant is certainly correct to note that there is a certain weightless lack of consequence to the onscreen action of Marvel movies.

Informant wrote:

I don't need realism in comic book movies. However, when you take these characters and put them in a real world setting, with flesh and blood actors, things change. If you have a real adult waving a gun around, shooting bullets in random directions like they do in cartoons, it comes across very differently. If you have flesh and blood actors simply behaving like cartoons, why are you spending hundreds of millions of dollars? Flesh and blood is an investment in reality.

I don't really see the Marvel Cinematic Universe as realistic even with live action. I see the Marvel Cinematic Universe and the Marvel comic book universe in terms of COMMUNITY's flexible, contradictory terms of realism, specifically the paintball episodes where everyone develops high functioning combat skills, Pierce can build a fort inside a day, the damage to the school is cleared away within hours.

While Dan Harmon himself would characterize this as parody, Abed would call it homage --and the Marvel Universe is an existence where that kind of absurdity is a daily fact of life -- which was a factor in why they hired COMMUNITY directors Joe and Anthony Russo.

One of the definitive moments of the Marvel Universe, for me, is when Nick Fury's old war buddies are in a bar when they learn of Nick Fury having been killed by the Punisher. A somber moment passes -- and then all of Nick's friends start laughing uncontrollably, joking to each other that they've all 'died' on multiple occasions ("Hey, aren't you dead too? "Naw, you the dead guy!") and none of them expect Fury to be dead for long.

In the CIVIL WAR comic, Peter Parker unmasked as Spider-Man; Flash Thompson observed that Peter was being a very good pal to Spidey to participate in this ruse, but that at some point during or after the Civil War, Peter and Spidey would be seen in the same place together and everything would go back to normal. Spider-Man is also friends with a talking duck named Howard.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe has largely embraced this absurdity by hiring comedians like Downey Jr., Paul Rudd and Chris Pratt as well as virtuosos of deadpan lunacy like Joss Whedon and the Russo brothers.

That said -- part of the Marvel Universe's initial appeal was the illusion of realism in that all the stories were set in New York City with photo referenced landmarks and references to current events and celebrities. However, the Marvel Universe also played up the absurd factors that were totally at odds with real life such as Reed Richards' flying car. This created the amusing effect where the Marvel Universe and the real world would overlap; the MU would be relevant to the real world without being the real world.

This would wax and wane over the decades; the 90s were when the MU detached almost entirely from real world overlap as the stories began to take place in an exaggerated macho fantasy. In the 2000s, a new editor, Joe Quesada, made a number of interesting initiatives to move back to overlapping with the real world -- first through increased referencing to current events and celebrities, then with incorporating real-world situations like Captain America visiting Guantanamo Bay and Tony Stark in Afghanistan, the Red Skull renounced Nazism and declared himself a Republican.

The first was effective -- Spider-Man met Jay Leno and nearly got him killed, Tony Stark dated Shannon Elizabeth, Emma Frost told the X-Men trainees that their first telepathic assignment was to find the real truth behind Tom and Nicole's split, George Bush guest-starred in numerous issues as a cunning political strategist who liked to play stupid, etc..

The incorporation of real-world situations, however, turned out to be a problem for the editors who led this charge. Given that the majority of comic book readers were left of center, there was no backlash from the fans, but editors found it awkward to have Captain America fighting Al Qaeda one week and purple dragons the next.

It was awkward to have 9-11 treated as a monumental event in the Marvel Universe when the X-Men tear up the city monthly without any issues. The editors eventually decided that the comics were not a soapbox for their personal politics and moved towards apolitical allegory. Captain America would stick to fighting AIM and HYDRA, but they might use methods that resembled modern terrorist tactics. The heroes would debate the Superhero Registration Act instead of the Patriot Act. But Spider-Man was still allowed to declare that teachers are underpaid and to meet Barack Obama.

4,024

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

As for the money -- nobody would spend $500 million dollars if the expectation was to do a touch better than break even. BVS is estimated to need to earn $920 million to be moderately profitable/not a disaster; surely Warner Bros. was hoping to do better than be moderately successful when they invested half a billion.

A lot of the media reports on BVS seem to be drawing on past history, specifically SUPERMAN RETURNS and AMAZING SPIDER-MAN II. Both films had high budgets with extremely optimistic projections. Both films were thought to be the starting point for multiple spin-offs and sequels that were approved well in advance of completion. Both films would, on the surface of it, seem to have been successful at box office.

But both films eventually turned out to be below the studio's needs and expectations; SUPERMAN RETURNS' modest profit and the likelihood that a sequel would earn about the same or less given the mixed reception made WB decide to wait out Brandon Routh's contract and shut down Bryan Singer's sequel. AMAZING SPIDER-MAN II, like BVS, was estimated to need to make $1 billion in order to be considered successful; $770 million and mixed reception likely meaning similar or less earnings for a sequel made Sony decide to shut down all the spin-offs and follow-ups.

And now we have BVS, which would appear to be following the ASM2 track of multiple sequels and spin-offs matched with a massive budget and the need for a near $1 billion dollar earning to be considered a success -- and basically limping its way there with massive drops in ticket sales every week. ASM2 also suffered from a lack of repeat viewings. History appears to be repeating itself --

Except WB is in too deep to cancel their spin-offs, so...

4,025

(927 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Informant's issues seem to largely center on how the combat in CIVIL WAR is not realistic. I don't really go to superhero films or comic books for realism. Superhero combat in comics has always been a hyperexaggerated escapist fantasy with the powers being forms of emotional expression, acting as metaphor and imagery for internal states of mind. A lot of your issues with CIVIL WAR and with the Marvel Universe in general are fundamentally due to the genre having never prized realism.

For example, the Hulk. He has never killed an innocent person in the comics. This is a central aspect to Bruce Banner's character because the second the Hulk kills an innocent and Banner doesn't find some way to off himself, Banner becomes a villain. In realistic, physical terms, this makes no sense whatsoever given how the Hulk would appear to be an uncontrollable, rampaging force of nature smashing through buildings and streets.

There are various cod psychological explanations for this. Most of them are that Banner has some small splinter of control over the Hulk and Banner's conscience prevents the Hulk from stomping on innocent people or harming them. Writer Dan Slott took the view that this may be crazy, but it would be far crazier to take a heroic figure created in 1962 and turn him into a supervillain in the name of a realism that is inherently alien to this genre.

Slott also pointed out that anyone who has been to New York City and seen the vast spaces between buildings and blocks would find it absurd that Daredevil can bound across rooftops with ease, something even the most highly trained Olympic level athlete would fail to perform.

There's also the collateral damage. Spider-Man, Iron Man and Thor have regularly smashed apart buildings and had battles across New York City in the course of their adventures. They have never been responsible for innocent people getting killed. That's ridiculous, as MAN OF STEEL would indicate, but again -- this is part of the nature of the superhero genre. Superheroes in the Marvel Universe rarely if ever kill no matter how bad the situation -- and that's simply an aspect of their fictional existence. It's also in the nature of superhero comics that characters engage in lengthy conversations while beating each other up, something that couldn't happen in real life because no fighter would waste their breath on chatter.

There are other aspects of non-realism to the Marvel Universe. The technology created by Reed Richards and Tony Stark should turn the Marvel Universe into a futuristic wonderland, but it's always the twentieth to twenty-first century.

The floating timeline is absurd; Hawkeye, Iron Man and the Black Widow were contemporaries, but while the Black Widow's Communist origins have been maintained with a retconned immortality serum, Spidey and Iron Man have been relocated to the present day -- yet Black Widow's origin story is inextricably tangled up in Hawkeye and Iron Man despite them having been born years after her origin.

The shared universe aspect of the Marvel Universe is at best nonsensical. For some weird reason, the superpowered X-Men are seen as freaks and outcasts, but the superpowered Avengers and Fantastic Four are regarded as beloved celebrities. The constant deaths and resurrections stagger even the most willing sense of disbelief; Spider-Man and Captain America seem to die and return two or three times a decade.

The Marvel Cinematic Universe has allowed its heroes to use lethal force now and then, but the Marvel comic book universe has never been able to wrap themselves around that narratively for whatever reason. The Hulk was briefly given a body count, but the editors, for the reasons above, decided it was a mistake and to reverse that entirely.

Ultimately, this is the Marvel Universe. A world where nobody ever really dies, where the Hulk has never killed an innocent person, where fighters can chat while battling -- and ultimately, a world of escapist comfort. I find that you're taking issue with the Marvel Universe being the Marvel Universe.

This is of course your right and I will defend your right to express your disdain for the superhero genre -- but to me, it's a bit like saying ONCE UPON A TIME is a stupid show because fairy tales are lame.

But not to worry. Your BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN DAWN OF JUSTICE re-release is coming soon enough. The ULTIMATE EDITION, rated R and retitled DAWN OF JUSTICE VERSUS APOKALIPS OMEGA SANCTION WONDER AQUA FLASH SUICIDE BAT. Mixed with Extra Grimness where every moment of Henry Cavill grimacing has been extended by 40 per cent just to get just a few more frames of misery into the movie. Augmented with Additional Nihilism in which Ben Affleck will not only declare the brutal murders of his parents as a vital life lesson, he'll also narrate a slideshow about the nature of radical self-interest. Enhanced with Supplemental Horror in which instead of just hearing about the drowning horses, we'll get to see them drown while intercut with Jonathan eating cake! Uplifted by a new sequence in which Superman sits in the ash and dust of incinerated human corpses after the bombing. And a closing scene where Kenny Braverman, the lead bully from MAN OF STEEL, visits the Kent farm to rob Clark Kent's grave only to be accidentally pulped by Superman hitting him while flying out of the coffin at top speed.

.......................

I suppose we could mock the Marvel movies in much the same way, just to be fair. I'll do that tomorrow! :-D

4,026

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

There are reports that JUSTICE LEAGUE will be more lighthearted. And I will say this -- regardless of our issues with Snyder, he's a good director. I was not entirely on board with some of BVS, but it was certainly a memorable and striking film. ("Did your parents teach you that you mean something -- that you're here for a reason? My parents taught me a different lesson -- dying in the gutter for no reason at all.") Snyder wanted to be grim and downbeat and he does grim and downbeat very well. And I think that if he wants to be lighthearted and uplifting, he can do that as well.

4,027

(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I agree. Now that the whole story is out, it's clear the ARROW writing staff decided to kill SOMEONE and then chose their victim afterwards. It results in a story that feels artificial and unnatural because the writers have decided someone will die before knowing if they've set up a story that actually justifies or requires a death. They also engineered a situation where it was impossible for that death to come naturally from the story because they didn't settle on who would die until as late in the season as possible.

The weird thing is that I don't think they were far from getting it right -- if they had decided from the first episode that Laurel was to die, they could have built up an entire run of episodes where the conflict between Laurel's legal exploits and her vigilante exploits is building to terrible consequences and those consequences turn out to be her death. Instead, all that stuff was abruptly thrown into one episode because it was only with this one specific episode that the writers had finally made a choice.

I disliked the Laurel character intensely in Season 1 but came to appreciate her reworking in Seasons 2 - 4. I don't object to the death or even the circumstances of her death -- I just disliked how, because of the improvised, open-ended approach, there was nothing to make sure that Laurel's story and Laurel's death dovetailed until the very episode in which it happened. It's kind of artless. On some level, I think the writers were operating from the view that death is often random; there aren't always clues, there isn't always build-up, so it'd be fine. But it makes the story feel like it's being engineered from the outside in and without much thought or care, specifically due to how the random nature of the writing is reflected in the random feel of the storytelling.

I don't hate it as much as you did, but I certainly can't defend it.

4,028

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't see how you can avoid bringing up the cost of marketing to explain why BATMAN VS SUPERMAN cost more than its $250 million budget. THE JUNGLE BOOK, with half a billion after two weeks and a 44 per cent drop, won't struggle to turn a strong profit even with a theoretically BVS level marketing and production budget by the end of its theatrical run.

BVS, in contrast, is reported to need to earn $925 million to be considered profitable and it's currently at $850 million after four weeks. This is most definitely not what Warner Bros. was hoping for; the expectation was that this film would earn half a million domestic and half a million foreign by its second weekend and reach 2 billion by week three or four.

I don't think BVS is a failure, but it's not the runaway success that one would have expected a Batman, Superman and Wonder Woman film to be. If the budget had been lower, it would have been superbly successful; as it stands, it's making moderate money.

4,029

(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

One of my favourite comic book serieses is WITCHBLADE. It's also one of the worst comics ever made -- or it was until the publisher finally hired an actual writer to script it. WITCHBLADE came out during the comic book bad girl craze, featuring a homicide detective, Sara Pezzini, who finds a magical gauntlet called the Witchblade which responds to her thoughts, forms organic armour, fires blades and flames, can telepathically link to others and form various constructs (weapons, shields, climbing apparatus). It was mostly a fetish comic written for an audience who liked to see half-naked women and tormented, long-haired men whining about shallow emotional problems in juvenile prose.

I'd dismissed WITCHBLADE as empty fetish material until Ron Marz, one of my favourite writers, started scripting the series, at which point I went back and re-read all the (awful) material before his debut. In the pre-Marz issues, the comic attempted to create some buzz by allowing readers to vote in a death pool where they could vote for characters to be safe or to potentially be killed off until only one unlucky character would be left in the pool. There was no storytelling function served by teasing a death and letting the audience vote on it, nor was it originated from the stories themselves -- it was simply to create empty hype. What it did, instead, was communicate how little the people writing this comic cared about their stories or characters in any way.

4,030

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

This menu at the Studio Movie Grill looks very appetizing.

https://www.studiomoviegrill.com/Menu.aspx

I'm watching MR. RIGHT, written by Max Landis, and the invincible hitman played by Sam Rockwell who can pull knives out of mid-air and never loses a fight and wins Anna Kendrick's heart in 30 seconds makes me suspicious of how Landis is totally okay with hypercompetent, indestructible characters so long as they're men.

.....................................................................

To be fair, Anna Kendrick's civilian character who has never been in a fight is also revealed to innately possess the same knife-catching superpowers, so maybe Landis doesn't mind women being awesome so long as he writes them.

Also to be fair, this is actually a pretty fun movie.

4,032

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I wonder if we should set up a Tumblr for Informant/Slider_Quinn21 shippers with fanvids and fanfic and GIFs and set up a Kickstarter to send them on a dream date to Studio Movie Grill. Or maybe get them in a room together to record opposing audio commentary on all the DC and Marvel movies.

4,033

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

LAURIE: "You will not believe what he did at the movie, Mom -- "
HENRIETTA: "What'd he do now?"
LAURIE: "There was a guy texting in the theatre -- " (jabs a finger at ireactions) " -- and he threw dimes at the back of the guy's head until he put the phone away!"
ME: "That's not true. I did not throw dimes at anybody. I would never do that."
LAURIE: "You fucking liar! I saw you! And you say you do it all the time!"
ME: "I throw pennies, not dimes. I know how to budget."

4,034

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 has really fried my last nerve this time.

I've tolerated his antics over the years -- agreeing to plot the pilot episode of SLIDERS (2013) and submitting a sketchily incoherent treatment that didn't even make it to halfway to the ending before blowing it off to enter a screenwriting contest while promising a return to writing that we're all still waiting on. Leaving poor Informant to finish the treatment that I then scripted, at which point Slider_Quinn21 took half a year before offering a critique of the script in which he provided an opinion so vaguely unspecific that it gave the strong impression he had neglected to read past the title page. Contributing to SLIDERS (2013) afterwards by offering more and more and more ideas for the Pilot episode ("What if Arturo killed Mike Mallory?" "What if Bennish joins the sliders?) when it had been scripted for months and ideas for subsequent episodes were needed. Declaring that it would be a bad idea to start a SLIDERS twentieth anniversary special with the original sliders alive and well and home but that he'd be interested in seeing someone try and then failing to provide feedback on SLIDERS REBORN even eight months after agreeing to do so aside from writing another E-mail that gave the vague yet incredibly specific sense that he had once again not read it.

All this I could bear with aplomb and understanding because we're friends, God damn it. I never required that you make up for any of that; I never even needed you to apologize for it. But now you've broken Informant.

I'm calling in my marker. All of the other grevious misdeeds are acceptable, but this one you have to fix. And I insist you deal with this before CIVIL WAR comes out, because if I have to read Informant talking about how nice it was to see yet another superhero film climaxing in an aerial action set piece, I -- I -- I -- I -- I swear to God I will kill somebody. Specifically, I will kill myself and make it look like you did it.

4,035

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Unbelievable, Slider_Quinn21. I can't believe you're so determined to characterize Informant as someone who just hates FUN AND can only enjoy joyless exercises in grimdark. It's bad enough you clearly hate old people and women, but anhedonia is a serious condition and poor Informant is clearly suffering and in need of our compassion and understanding.

;-)

In all seriousness, Informant's criticisms of SUPERGIRL are pretty legitimate and reasonable. They're just criticisms in areas that I, personally, consider irrelevant in the face of how SUPERGIRL makes me feel.

4,036

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I was pretty happy with the SUPERGIRL finale. TF says that it feels like it's for children. I'd say that description is incomplete. SUPERGIRL is an all ages series. It's a family product like TOY STORY, THE LEGO MOVIE, ARCHIVE and SPIDER-MAN LOVES MARY JANE.

I'm not blind to the flaws of SUPERGIRL, having listed them exhaustively in a post that other posters inexplicably attributed to Informant. However, I am in favour of its mission, its spirit, its values, its goals (albeit goals that are often contradictory and mutually exclusive).

The season finale had some issues, but I'm prepared to dismiss all of them. I have no problem with Myriad being undone by Supergirl inspiring the masses, the series having built the S-shield in National City as an iconic symbol of hope that is meant to be just as meaningful as Helen Danvers reaching out to Alex.

The superfight fight taking place in a deserted location? Well, that's where the Myriad hardware was buried -- out of sight, far from population centers, and hardly any different from BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN insisting that Metropolis' downtown core was empty or having the trinity fight Doomsday in an apparently vacant part of Gotham City. Alex flying the pod? Well, clearly, the AI of Kara's mother decided to help her out.

I definitely got the same sense from the finale as I did BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN in that the finale seemed to have far too much going on. At times, it seemed like scenes had been sped up at 1.3 times in order for it to fit in the running length -- and I got the sense that lines were cut here and there. At one point where Maxwell Lord tells J'onn that Supergirl is going to try to talk people out of Myriad, I got the sense that J'onn was about to respond, but the shot ended -- I imagined J'onn saying that if and when this failed, they could still use the bomb, right?

The Myriad plot was, to me, darkly insightful in noting that every problem with the world could be dealt with by removing free will from human beings and directing them to spend their time entirely focused on environmental problems at the expense of their individuality and personal will. The fact that Cat Grant didn't even notice everyone had been hypnotized was a grim comment on this vision of a better world.

I wished the episode could have been a bit longer to explore this a bit more and also pace Alex's fight a bit better, because that's really the plot point needed to hammer home why Kara can save National City from Myriad with her broadcast. The drama of Kara saying farewell to each person in her life was really touching, as was the revelation that J'onn had been able to free himself from the DEO the entire time. The fight with Alex was really unnerving for me because of Kara's fear of injuring her sister; the battle in the desert had a real sense of desperation that Kara could lose her home. The material was forced and lacking in subtlety, but the actors and the director made me *feel* all of it, so I was okay with all the flaws.

The claim that Kara is being written as Clark is strange to me; she's not being written like any Clark Kent I'm familiar with and while I haven't read every Superman comic, I've read a selection from each era. The 30s - 60s Clark is a bumbling oaf while Superman goes from an activist firebrand to a rather gentle father figure before the 70s and 80s transformed Clark into a charismatic journalist with Superman as a Herculean fantasy figure. The 90s and 2000s transitioned from a dual personality into three personalities: Clark on the Smallville farm, Superman/Kal-El of Krypton and Clark in Metropolis with different blends of each of the three in different situations, as played by Brandon Routh. SMALLVILLE just wrote Clark on the farm with occasional flashes of more Christopher Reeve style Superman behaviour that represented adulthood and by the end, Clark was pretty much in Superman mode all the time, but there was no duality of persona. ("You walk like a fireman and talk like a cop.")

Kara isn't really like that -- I guess she's closest to Brandon Routh except there aren't multiple personas. Kara Zor-El/Kara Danvers/Supergirl are the same person with no difference in personality, but different situations bring out different aspects of her; superheroics bring forth her light-hearted, fun-loving side matched with determined heroism; offices bring out Kara's unnerved sense of displacement which originates from being an adopted refugee; the DEO brings out both.

I think Alex Danvers is wonderful and the actress makes her distinct from Kara by showing how Kara is caring and heroic, but Alex has a devious, manipulative and at times ruthless side, exemplified by her using Maxwell Lord's attraction to spy on him and stabbing Astra through the heart. Kara doesn't have that kind of killer instinct and while the scripts have struggled to keep that in place, the actress provides it.

But to say she's being written as Clark -- well, I don't recall any Clark ever being anything like this Kara. Regardless of which Clark, Clark's defining characteristic is being constantly in disguise and engaging in subterfuge; Kara doesn't really do that. The secret identity aspect of SUPERGIRL is almost irrelevant to the point where even Cat Grant sees right through "Kiera."

J'onn being reinstated at the DEO was dumb and the reason it doesn't work -- they meant to have an episode with the US President to be played by Lynda Carter. But the schedule didn't work out, so they failed to establish the character of the US President and why she would be inclined to grant J'onn clemency -- in which case it would have been best to have him taken on as a consultant rather than the boss.

Anyway. I really like SUPERGIRL because, despite all of its mis-steps, it's trying to do something good and it inspires fan mail like this:

Dear Melissa Benoist and Chyler Leigh,

You met thousands of people last weekend. I want to tell you about your impact on three of them. Three little girls, specifically, who were all wearing Superman pajamas and were camped out at the front of the autograph lines on Saturday morning. (I would love to get them Supergirl pajamas, but we couldn’t find any. DC should really get on that).

Supergirl is the first show that our entire family watches together. After dinner on Monday nights, the younger two girls always race upstairs to put on pajamas and brush teeth, so as not to be late for the opening credits.

But it’s our oldest daughter that has gained the most from Supergirl. She identifies strongly with Kara Danvers. Like Kara, our girl has long blonde hair; she wears glasses; she was adopted. And just as Kara does, our girl misses her first family, and she struggles with feeling alien at times.

Over the past year, our oldest girl has grown more independent. She is in middle school now and prefers to hang out in her room with the door shut, listening to music, watching YouTube videos and reading YA books. Her dad and I and her two younger sisters feel wistful for the days when she plopped herself front and center into every family interaction.

But her intense (and developmentally normal) desire to separate from the family melts away for an hour on Monday nights, when she curls up beside us on the couch as we all snuggle together to watch Supergirl. During commercials, she loves to run across the room, pulling off her glasses and shouting, “I Am Supergirl!” while her younger sisters sit giggling in delight. She is proud to be adopted, just like Kara Danvers.

Her relationship with her younger sisters is complicated. They are our biological daughters, and this creates deep and unavoidable conflict for her. No matter how much we reassure her that we love her the same as the younger girls, she tests us.

During the scenes in Supergirl where Alex and Kara explore the painful aspects of their relationship as sisters through adoption, our whole family absorbs every word, every expression, because seeing this dynamic on mainstream television makes our family feel less alone. The fact that both Alex and Kara are kickass, strong, smart, flawed, beautiful women who work hard, cry, laugh, yell, fight, and make mistakes has been an incredible model for all of our girls.

When your family is built through adoption, you rarely see nuanced portrayals of adoptive families in the media. It’s all about extremes. Fairy tales and fantasy shows usually resort to the trope of the evil step-parents or the abusive adoptive parents, with the adoptees depicted as mistreated victims. On the other end, modern stories often present the adoptive parents as saviors who rescued abandoned orphans and gave them the perfect life. In reality, neither of these fits our adoptive family. Watching Supergirl has normalized our experience, where some parts of adoption are amazing and other parts are really difficult, but what never changes is that we are family, and we love each other. Thank you for that.

On Saturday morning, our middle daughter was having a rough time as we were trying to leave the house to come see you. Often, in these situations, our oldest daughter can act as an agitator, which escalates the problems. I pulled my oldest aside and said, “We are going to meet Supergirl. How do you think she would respond to her sister?” Instead of falling into the typical sibling patterns, she swooped over to her younger sister and comforted her. The effect of her behavior was instant and soothing. She was her best self when she was trying to be the Supergirl within.

Since I was working at a booth at C2E2, I was able to get the girls in early, and we made a beeline for the autograph area. Our plan was to get into Melissa’s line first and then head to Chyler’s. The girls grew impatient after an hour, but we plied them with hot pretzels and books to read.

When you both arrived, all three of my daughters leaped up from the floor with shining eyes. Our five-year-old is so small that my husband carried her in his arms so she see could over the autograph table. Melissa, you were the first one we met.

“Hi, guys!” you said with a big smile, taking in the three girls dressed alike. When we explained to you that our oldest likes to pretend she is you, because she is adopted and wears glasses and has long blonde hair, you went with it without missing a beat, addressing her as Supergirl.

Our oldest told you how excited she is for the upcoming episode with The Flash, and your face lit up as you expressed how you, too, couldn’t wait. Our younger girls wanted to talk about how you went bad in the previous episode after being exposed to Red Kryptonite. You looked at them and saw the concern in their faces and said with empathy, “Wasn’t that awful?” Your warmth immediately reassured them that you are the kind-hearted Supergirl that they adore.

After you signed an autograph for my daughters, I asked you to sign a piece of paper for our bullying prevention nonprofit, the Pop Culture Hero Coalition, and you did. I couldn’t wait to show my colleagues. Meeting you and Chyler was the highlight of my own personal C2E2 experience, I will admit!

After you gave everyone high fives and smiles, we said goodbye and headed to meet Chyler.

Chyler, you were amazing, so approachable, so kind. You asked each girl her name and age; you told me that you are also a mom of three kids. “We would have a lot to talk about,” you said to me, making me feel as if you could be a friend and not just a television star. My middle daughter explained that whereas our oldest is Supergirl, she likes to think of herself as Alex. You nodded and agreed that she is Alex.

When I asked you to sign a paper for the Pop Culture Hero Coalition, you enthused about how important bullying prevention is. The girls chatted with you about how awesome Alex is, and you could not have been easier to talk to. After high fives all around and autographs, we left.

Melissa and Chyler, your reflected glow surrounded all five of us for the rest of the day. Merging fantasy with reality is always fraught with expectations, but you both were the heroines our girls have grown to love.

Last night, when we all settled in to watch the latest episode of Supergirl, there was a different feel. “Hi, Kara!” the girls shouted at the screen. “Hi, Alex!” they yelled. “We know you!!!!” We plan to frame your autographs and hang them right over the television, a forever reminder of the day we met the Danvers sisters, an adoptive family that strikes a responsive chord with ours.

Carrie Goldman

http://www.chicagonow.com/portrait-of-a … ptive-mom/

4,037

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

No one betting against Jim Cameron's ginormously budgeted gambles has ever won. That said, past performance is not necessarily indicative for future results.

4,038

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Informant wrote:

I'm still not sure if the marketing budget was ever confirmed. Is it just a rumor or do we know that for a fact?

All estimates, but they seem reasonable to me given the film and promotional campaign. All budgets are estimates in the end. Studios do not release official numbers, but unless they deny the figures, I accept them as being within a reasonable margin of error. The numbers are supplied by production sources and I see no reason to think that Deadline, Collider, Box Office Mojo and Birth Movies Death choose numbers at random.
http://deadline.com/2016/03/batman-v-su … 201726300/

Informant wrote:

What is a universal crowdpleaser? If we assume that it is even possible for something like that to exist, it would have to be something so devoid of vision and so lacking in depth that the audience would have no reason to think about the movie at all. What movie is both universally beloved and actually good and meaningful? What book, music or painting could even claim such a thing?

Looking at the highest grossing films of all time (adjusted for inflation), I think it's probably aspirational inspiration. GONE WITH THE WIND, TITANIC, THE SOUND OF MUSIC and ET speak to the universal human desire to find love and emotional connection, and then survive the pain of losing it. STAR WARS and TEN COMMANDMENTS speak to the universal human desire to find strength, power and ability within one's self. AVATAR speaks to the universal human desire to see new worlds.

I'm not saying you shouldn't do the movie that was BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN, just that the size of the audience for a very serious, grim, dark, philosophical superhero film is clearly not high enough to sink half a billion into it. The first Nolan BATMAN film had the same aspirations of serious cinema and it was in no way a box office smash -- but the budget was modest, so the film was a financial success even if it didn't set financial records and it built goodwill through strong reviews and home video sales leading to the superb results of the two sequels.

It's sort of like Yahoo and COMMUNITY. Yahoo lost at least $30 million on it. The audience wasn't big enough for what it cost versus what it earned in advertising. I loved Season 6, but I find it difficult to claim investing in it was a sound financial decision.

MAN OF STEEL had mixed reviews and made 668 million at box office, so to make a sequel that needed to earn 1 billion at box office just to just about break even wasn't the greatest idea. Warner Bros. thought the hype of Batman and Superman sharing the screen would make BVS the most important cultural event in superhero history. Again, without getting into quality -- I think it's clear that BVS is not seen that way by the world at large.

4,039

(19 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Dean Cain is reportedly a very nice man. Sexually, he's a very intriguing figure in that he has had sex with a lot of women including Brooke Shields, Pamela Anderson, Mindy McCready, Denise Richards, Samantha Torres, Ami Dolenz, Gabrielle Reece and possibly Teri Hatcher and I suspect the full count of women is near the triple digit figure if it isn't already.

It's intriguing to me because Jerry O'Connell's sexual history is numerically similar -- yet, all of Jerry O'Connell's ex-girlfriends have come out to the press describing Jerry as a philandering, unfaithful, lying, sociopathic traitor while 99 per cent of Dean Cain's exes have nothing but praise for Dean's conduct.

Dean's exes have talked about how he was very romantic and sexual, but also extremely clear that because of a busy TV schedule, he was only dating casually. Friendship sometimes led to sex and then went back to friendship, but he was honest about how serious he was and honest that he was seeing other women. He didn't tell women he was their boyfriend and then cheat on them (as Jerry did with Giuliana Rancic) or hook up with women and then ignore them (Jerry and Melissa Joan Hart). As a result, the only woman who has been negative about her relationship with Dean is the mother of his child and that was in a venomous custody battle where she accused Dean of being a drug addict and alcoholic, to which he responded by volunteering himself for regular blood tests that led to him winning sole custody of his son.

His career also cooled rapidly after LOIS & CLARK and, like Robert Floyd, he was frank about why: he was offered a lot of work, but he turned down a lot of it to focus on raising his child.

My point is that most people with Dean Cain's sexual exploits have nasty, unpleasant reputations like Jerry O'Connell's, so to have both Dean's sexual history and the reputation he does, he would have to be every bit as affable and respectful as Clark Kent. There is very little 'acting,' although there is still a great deal of skill to achieving naturalism and ease on camera.

Which makes it all the more intriguing that Dean Cain decided that Clark Kent is a virgin...

4,040

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Regardless of quality, I think the economics would indicate that BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN spent too much money on something that wasn't a universal crowdpleaser, and if you're spending $500 million, you have to make a universal crowdpleaser if you intend to get a decent return on your investment. As it stands, BVS is making strong ticket sales, but it's not getting repeated ticket sales; it's not drawing people back to see it again and again and again in the way the audience wanting to see Han and Chewie in theatres a second and third and fourth time took THE FORCE AWAKENS to two billion.

I'm all for artistic expression and stylized storytelling that makes Informant happy, but I'm not sure it's worth a half a billion dollars when $54 million seems adequate for making Informant happy via Marvel's Netflix shows.

4,041

(3,504 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't have an opinion of Hillary Clinton yet. I'm doing my research. I did write her as a one-term US President running for mayor of San Francisco in the fhird SLIDERS REBORN script, but that was a random detail of alt-history. Also, Slider_Quinn21 feels I have been rather hard on him lately over his opinions of Rey and Ben Affleck as Batman which I've (jokingly) characterized as hatred towards women and old people, so even if I disagreed with him (and I currently lack the knowledge to concur or dissent), I would probably sleep on it for a few weeks.

4,042

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

SMALLVILLE, for all its many, many, many, many, many, many faults, appreciated that the most exciting visual was Tom Welling pulling people out of car wrecks and burning buildings and racing them out of explosions and never had trouble communicating that Clark cared about people.

**

Location filming will never be matched by HEROES style of second unit and stock footage meshed with soundstage material -- but big budget Hollywood films are getting ridiculously bloated. Television, whether it's THE FLASH or DOCTOR WHO or SUPERNATURAL, have all had to work with budget reductions compared to previous years due to economic pressures. SLIDERS used a lot of neat tricks in Seasons 1 - 2 to make the most of its money; interior sets were often empty studio space with props and set dressing wheeled in and out to turn the space into a hotel, a courtroom, Quinn's basement, a police station, etc..

The people who make big studio movies, however, seem to balk at sober fiscal consideration. Let's rent an entire farm! Let's rent out an entire library for one scene with Bruce and Diana! Let's rent an entire art museum for Lex's reception! Let's rent Old Wayne County Building for the Senate! Creating just enough set dressing for the shots we need!? That's for the peasants who work in TV!

As nice as it is to have these things, a little craft and care could see the movie get by without these things, slim down the budget considerably and we wouldn't be looking at all these grim reports of BVS having little to show the studio for all its spending. Zack Snyder, no matter what anyone thinks of him, is a very experienced and capable director; he could make the best of it.

4,043

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Setting aside any discussion of quality --

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

This was supposed to be a cultural explosion that sent DC into the stratosphere.  It made money (a sh*t-ton of it), but it wasn't what people were expecting.

That's the financial situation as well. Warner Bros. was sure a Batman and Superman film would easily hit 500 million domestic and 500 million foreign within two weeks, likely make at least $1.5 billion by the end of its theatrical run, and leave any competition in the dust. They put nearly half a million (estimated) into the project, expecting to make about $900 million in profit.

But three weeks in, it's made $300 million domestically, $500 million in foreign sales and ticket sales dropped 70 per cent with the second week, and now they'll likely make about $278 million in profit.

That makes superhero movies a lousy investment; they cost half a billion dollars to make and their profit margins aren't high enough to justify the risk and funds especially when sequels inevitably see diminishing returns. Warner Bros. has to ask themselves: why are they spending so much money to earn a 55 per cent return on investment that inevitably gets whittled away by continued costs of operating? In order for the studio to see a significant gain, they need to see a profit of at least 100 to 300 per cent of what they invested.

So, the issue isn't that BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN isn't earning money; it's that it isn't earning money to entirely validate the money that was spent. If BVS had cost $250 million to produce and market, the current earnings would be fine.

Hindsight is 20/20, but I think casting Ben Afflect was likely more expensive than BVS's earnings justify; I'm guessing he was paid anywhere from $30 million to $40 million. The second expense was filming locations -- Detroit and Chicago and Yorkville might have been best replaced entirely with soundstages, Vancouver or Los Angeles, and the use of second unit filming and computer recomposition to create the illusion of the actors being on location, much as HEROES created locations with stock footage and digitally merging it with newly filmed material.

Another insane use of funds was extremely poor preparation that is fairly common to studio films, sadly. They hired Jena Malone and filmed extensive sequences that aren't in the film, so they paid her for nothing and paid the crew to film all those scenes for no reason. At a midpoint in editing, the film had an additional two hours of additional scenes -- not extended moments, but additional scenes -- that were filmed and ultimately not included, which means that Snyder and the producers exercised poor judgement when deciding to spend money filming script pages that weren't used. It really is not difficult to sit down over a weekend, read a script and identify what scenes will likely be cut.

Setting aside any question of quality, all of Marvel's films have been unquestionably profitable and the disappointment over AGE OF ULTRON at Marvel Studios was because it cost more $30 million more than AVENGERS but earned about $100 million less -- it was a hit, but it didn't move the studio to a higher level of financial prosperity beyond where AVENGERS had already put them. It wasn't an improvement, financially. But Marvel movies tend to operate like DC's TV shows -- they're on a budget where even if the earnings aren't spectacular, they're still pretty solid and aren't cause to question the value of the superhero cinema.

I think that's an area where DC's slate could benefit -- they spend way too much money without control, attention or frugality. When Batman is the star of your movie, you don't need to hire a movie star to play him. You don't need to pay for actors and sequenecs that will ultimately be cut. Location filming is wonderful, but this is not the 1990s anymore and the 'bottled' look of SLIDERS on Season 3 - 5 soundstages can now be dodged with craft and skill, allowing a location look for less cost while still having money for Superman and Wonder Woman to fight Doomsday. The movie side could learn some things about cost effective creativity from the TV side.

4,044

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I find that Informant is half right and half wrong. The part where he's right:

Informant wrote:

This movie, like Superman in the movie, was seen as so indestructible that it became popular to try to destroy it. The movie, by all accounts, is doing well. Warner Bros should be happy. Yet we have "Sad Affleck" videos.

BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN is, for some reason, being painted as a failure. It wasn't. It's on track to make about 278 million in profit. MAN OF STEEL made 300 million in profit. And that's really the concern: Warner Bros. has to wonder why they spent such a massive amount of time and money in order to achieve what will be a rather middling return on their investment.

When your movie costs 410 million in production and marketing, 742 million by the third week of box office is weak when the studio only gets from 50 - 55 per cent of that and then has to subtract the money they spent making and selling the film.

And that's the quandary Warner Bros. find themselves in. To hit the 1 billion dollar box office sweet spot, they need a film that the audience is repeatedly returning to the cineplex to see again and again and again and again -- and that's not happening despite the film featuring three cultural icons in lead roles in a hugely promoted feature film.

When a low budget film like DEADPOOL is outgrossing a giant budget film like BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN, Warner Bros. has to consider if they're investing too much in the wrong areas. Currently, their method of investment is a bit like someone buying a private plane to commute two blocks.

Now, where Informant is wrong:

Informant wrote:

Nobody is writing stories about Disney in a panic after Age of Ultron failed to live up to expectations.

!?!?!?!?!

Google AGE OF ULTRON and "failure" and you'll find enough articles to wallpaper an entire city. The fallout from AGE OF ULTRON resulted in the widely reported schism within Marvel Studios in which Kevin Feige wanted Robert Downey Jr. to play a lead role in CAPTAIN AMERICA III rather than a supporting character, Isaac Perlmutter, responded by firing Downey Jr.

Feige declared that numerous production problems and overruns on AGE OF ULTRON had been due to Perlmutter's interference leading to Marvel earning lots of money but also having spent far too much for the earnings they'd won. Perlmutter was demoted to TV and comics, Downey Jr. was rehired and this was the biggest news for superheroes in Fall 2015. Hell, YOU heard it about it -- from me!

Informant wrote:

Nobody is writing headline after headline about how miserable a failure Star Wars was

?!?!?!?!!??!

Why would THE FORCE AWAKENS be considered a failure? 2 billion box office for $300 million in production and marketing.

Informant wrote:

Nobody is saying that Star Wars has thirty different versions released because the studio is trying desperately to make some amount of profit off of the embarrassing franchise.

?!?!!?!??!?!!??!?!?!!!?!!?!??!

STAR WARS is routinely mocked for the endless double-dipping. Fans have raised campaigns urging Lucas to stop messing around with the original trilogy and the Library of Congress declared the SPECIAL EDITIONs to be unwelcome in their archives because they'd been messed with so much.

Fans went so far as to form teams to locate and scan 16mm, 35mm and 70mm prints of the original films, which fan editors then used as source material to re-edit the blu-ray releases to create reconstructed versions of the unaltered films. Every re-release of the films with more inane CG alterations has been met with derision and anger. The universal distaste for the SPECIAL EDITIONS is one of the few (probably the only) things that STAR WARS fans actually agree on. And again, if nowhere else -- you would have read about it here on Sliders.tv! I've been posting about the DESPECIALIZED fan reconstruction project.

George Lucas' motives have also been psychoanalyzed to the last neuron: he grew up struggling to earn money, THX 1138 nearly bankrupted him, he sank the bulk of his millions from AMERICAN GRAFFITI into STAR WARS and was terrified when the film was dismissed by FOX and projected to fail. When it was a success, he invested in a sequel only to be horrified by ballooning production costs. Despite the success, Lucas was determined to avoid risky investments, doing RETURN OF THE JEDI as cheaply as possible and building Lucasfilm as a lucrative film production empire -- only to lose half of his fortune when his wife, fed up with his neglect, sued him in the divorce and proceeded to win and cripple his company for years.

As a result, Lucas became obsessed with squeezing as much profit out of his past achievements as possible due to his paranoia over money. This is the reason for the constant re-releases and why he would only make the prequels when the bulk of them could be filmed on soundstages in front of blue screens. Why did he refuse to hire screenwriters or other directors? He feared they would make things cost more than what he wanted to spend. Pathetic, really.

AND YOU READ ABOUT IT HERE!!!!!!!

*ahem*

You're right about the BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN 'failure' being massively overblown, though. It's not a failure. It's a modest success.

4,045

(19 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

"Strange Visitor" is another intriguing episode that's attempting to figure out: how do we threaten Superman? This episode has Bureau 39 and Trask target Superman by investigating him, pursuing leads that threaten the exposure of Clark's secret identity.

Once again, Deborah Joy Levine and her writers experiment with the format and while the episode has its strengths and weaknesses, LOIS & CLARK is clearly engaged with the Superman concept even if the writers are unsure and attempting different things.

This episode really makes it clear that Lois is silly, goofy, flighty, self-centered and in some ways stupid, but she is a force to be reckoned with. Her dying wish being to kiss Clark Kent is ridiculous until it's revealed as a feint. Her infatuation with Superman is hilariously skewered as a shallow crush when working with the sketch artist. She describes Superman's face in mythic, reverential terms and then describes Clark's identical features as bland and mundane.

But then, the closing scene of Superman and Lois indicates that Lois' love for him has depths as well. She tells Superman she respects his mission on Earth to help others, that she's horrified that a black ops division is reacting to Superman with suspicion and violence, and she wants to help him. The scripts do a splendid job of adding weight, dimension and power to Lois' role while still frequently playing her for laughs.

Dean Cain's performance remains a revelation as Clark Kent and an ungodly mess as Superman. Clark's terror during his interrogation is marvellously performed, and the earnest, hopeful wonder at finding artifacts of his spaceship are very well done. He has excellent chemistry with his parents again this week as Jonathan confesses that he did not destroy the spaceship. But when Cain is in costume, it all falls apart. Superman's scene with Lois features another awkward performance; Cain is clearly not comfortable in the costume. He crosses his arms stiffly, he shifts his weight clumsily -- he has no idea how to come alive as Superman even as he makes his performance as Clark truly effortless.

The strange thing is that Cain is so first rate in every scene where he's wearing normal clothes. He plays his scene in Cat's apartment beautifully; he is in no way attracted to her charms, but he likes how she's willing to dress down. His exasperation with Cat spreading rumours about him is hilarious and Cain has a note-perfect reaction when Lois describes his affair with Cat as his only meaningful secret. The vulnerability Cain shows in this episode contrasts well with the small moments in which Clark exhibits his powers, from digging up the hole where the spaceship was thought to be hidden to casually diving out of a plane. He completely makes it work that a god would clock in at the Daily Planet and be afraid of Bureau 39.

However, being a 1990s script, it suffers from poor research as did the Pilot in accidentally declaring fortune cookies to be Chinese. Perry delivers a memorable line to Clark about steering clear of Cat: "If you want to be the king, you gotta listen to the colonel." This quotable line completely fails to account for how Colonel Tom Parker formed a hideously codependent relationship with Elvis in which he overworked the man, ignored Presley's serious drug problems and forced him on a heath-destroying tour schedule while always making sure to pocket more than half of Elvis' earnings for himself. I guess it was harder to Google this stuff in the 90s. I'm a little surprised that Tom, the music guy, didn't call the show out on this.

"I'm Looking Through You" makes another attempt to develop a manner of working Superman and Clark Kent into the story. It's not a huge success, but it's a worthy attempt. For this episode, the writers create a villain/victim of the week with whom Clark strongly identifies. Alan, the invisible man, feels ignored and diminished by his lack of regard, just as Clark feels ignored and diminished by the same. Unfortunately, the story doesn't come together for a variety of reasons.

The first is that Clark never helps Alan with his problem of feeling invisible, nor do their situations line up in any appreciable way. Alan's invisibility is described as a vague detachment; Clark's issue is being overshadowed. Clark and Alan can't connect, nor do their stories sync at all. The second is that our villain of the week is, despite a gruff demeanor, totally unthreatening. Barnes is so undefined by anything except the actor's menace that he never comes off as a threat.

Trask and Luthor nearly broke the concept of Superman; Barnes, at best, offers a nasty scowl. Robbery is simply not a crime that creates any tension or danger for the characters. The episode visibly gives up on trying to build any menace when Lois and Alan get locked in a large vault with the absurd claim that they'll suffocate in two minutes. I'm glad Tom and Cory liked this episode, though.

Lois thinking she can bid on Superman for a date is delightfully delusional and I'm disappointed we don't get to see Superman on his date with the socialite. However, this episode features a few decent Superman moments from Dean Cain. His discomfort during the celebrity date auction works well and there's a certain earnest charm to Superman telling Lois she doesn't need to bid for his attention. There's also a very nice shot of Superman smashing through a wall.

With "Requiem for a Superhero," we have the writers attempting to threaten Superman in the most straightforward fashion -- cybernetically enhanced wrestlers with super strength. This effort is a complete and total failure. LOIS & CLARK attempts superhuman combat in this episode and the budget and direction simply aren't up to it. There is insufficient funding for Superman to be smashed through walls or to exchange blows, so quick resolutions and a humourous Superman finger flick are all that can be done. Dean Cain is hopelessly out of place in the fight scenes, although his defeat of this week's villain with his index finger is extremely funny.

As is normal for this show, Dean Cain puts in a spectacular performance as Clark, especially in the scene where the bullying wrestler attempts to intimidate Clark. Clark is shown to be cringing, retreating, fearful, alarmed -- Lois and the wrestler read it as fear -- and it is, in that Clark is terrified that the wrestler striking him will break the man's hands. Cain finds exactly the right note where the audience knows it's concern for another person while the characters read it as fear of injury.

I really liked Tom and Cory noting, as I felt, that the poker game is the scene where he realizes that Superman stands for something that makes him unwilling to use his powers to take advantage of people. It's weird how it doesn't actually connect to anything else in the episode; the baseball game teaser and the punching bag tag don't seem to connect to the rest of the story as well. It is indeed baffling.

Cory's also right to note how it makes little to no sense that Clark has never previously been invited to a poker game at which the players are... the regular cast. One wonders who it was that cancelled.

Almost as though surrendering on the Superman front, the episode has most of the episode focus on Lois. And it's really nice. The actor playing Dr. Sam Lane has a nice sense of confident detachment; we can see where Lois' solitary singlemindedness comes from; we can also recognize the goofy humour as damage borne of neglect from her father. Dr. Lane is Lois without the jokes, without the pratfalls -- without which Dr. Lane is rigid, cold and indifferent.

This episode is also a brilliant showcase for Lex Luthor, who has what are essentially three monologues where he talks to himself and John Shea makes it into a convincing conversation. The scripting is sharp and nuanced, identifying how Lex's egotism and self-absorbed nature know no limits -- he has a man murdered and describes it as disappointing because it reflects a lack of imagination on his part. Also unnerving is how Luthor, despite his obvious regard for Lois, has no compulsion about endangering her father or engineering situations where Lois has a gun put to her head.

The way Luthor compartmentalizes his internal thoughts to excuse or justify himself is on the razor edge of total sanity and total insanity. It is a tribute to how LOIS & CLARK's writers are consistently excellent. They may not make excellent episodes, but that is due to the challenges of writing for an invulnerable protagonist rather than any shortage of imagination, talent or commitment to the series.

I also love Tom and Cory noting that Lois poisons her plant with coffee.

4,046

(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Should I rename this the SLEEPY HOLLOW thread? (Just want to ask.)

4,047

(927 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't know if the public knows Daredevil is blind or not. From 1964 - 2002, his identity was a secret and Daredevil presumably having sight was often used to hide Matt's identity. Batman figured out that Daredevil was blind within a few minutes of meeting him, however, based on how Daredevil's body language reacted to noise and how he angled towards sounds of interest.

In 2002, Daredevil's identity was outed by an FBI agent who sold his story to the Daily Globe newspaper. Since then, Matt has been in a state of publicly denying his alter-ego identity with barely anyone believing him, even after Iron Fist made sure Daredevil and Matt Murdock were seen in two different places at the same time.

However, due to a recent cosmic event called Secret Wars, nobody except Foggy Nelson and Matt know the truth anymore. It's not clear what the current situation is.

4,048

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Sometimes, I'm just not in the mood to type my stories. I often have an idea -- Quinn, in a near-death situation, is confronted by a hallucination of Mallory! But trying to work out how to justify that is troubling and I can't get myself to type anything.

However, today, in a traffic jam, I triggered the voice recorder on my phone and forced myself to talk out loud about what the plot would be and by the time I was finished, I was almost halfway home! That's a neat approach in attempting a mental change of venue.

4,049

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

When Cat Grant said that Harrison Ford was a philanderer trying to cheat on his wife with Cat, I had a brief moment where I feared SUPERGIRL's creators might get sued.

But this Honest Teaser you linked to has no specific film commentary. It's just commenting on the trailer.

pilight wrote:
Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Next Star Wars question I've always had.  Can the Death Star travel at hyperspeed (is that what it's called in SW?)?  It has to, right?  That would've been quite the visual.

It clearly had some kind of FTL capability.  Otherwise it would take hundreds of years to get from system to system.

I wondered if they would eventually get the range so powerful on the Death Star that it wouldn't need to move. But the books declared it had hyperdrive, so I always went with that. To be honest, I'm not entirely clear if ships in STAR WARS can even move faster than light -- off the top of my head, the characters only refer to going at "light speed" but then the use of hyperspace suggests that reaching light speed lets them enter a realm where ships can 'jump' to a farther location without travelling that distance.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

BTW, another aside - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pegJQPIzfs4 - the Honest Trailer.  I think this captures the movie pretty well.  The movie has flaws, but they're easily overlooked/forgiven if you're a big-enough fan.  The movie had *insane* expectations, and for the most part, it succeeded really well.  But as someone who wouldn't consider himself to be a big Star Wars fan, some of the plot/character issues affected me more.

What the hell is this? Looks like the FORCE AWAKENS teaser intercut with clips of the prequels and some commentary on top, based largely on reviewing a teaser trailer.

According to the various technical manuals, the Death Star had hyperdrive -- but all the books before April 25, 2014 have been declared apocryphal. They are now labelled as STAR WARS LEGENDS. So now, it's kind of a gray area.

**

In other STAR WARS news -- well, in February (so not news, really), fan editor Peter Harmáček released version 2.5 of his DESPECIALIZED STAR WARS. These are versions of the original trilogy where all the SPECIAL EDITION changes have been removed -- and they're in high definition.

Very neat stuff. Harmáček received a variety of donations to make this happen; fans calling themselves TeamNegative1 tracked down 35mm prints of the unaltered films and did scans and restorations and gave some of their stuff to Harmáček. Harmáček took the SPECIAL EDITION blu-ray versions and mixed them with the 35mm versions and the unaltered but low-res DVD footage to recreate the original films.

He used rotoscoping to lift the original effects and put them on top of the SPECIAL EDITION video, covering the CG additions. For example, the SPECIAL EDITION STAR WARS created a new Leia hologram; Harmáček kept the HD version but covered the new Leia hologram with the original. He also recreated all the edits so that shots removed or altered in the SPECIAL EDITION have been restored to the DESPECIALIZED version. The original sound mix has been reinstated. All blu-ray colour alterations (designed to make the original films' tan, low contrast image match the bright, high contrast look of the prequels) have been undone.

Harmáček also restored errors. He recreated matte lines, scanlines, incorrectly placed matte paintings and visual artifacts, aiming for historical accuracy. It's called DESPECIALIZED, but that implies there've been changes; these releases are STAR WARS (1977), EMPIRE (1980) and RETURN (1983) as shown in theatres. Fans no longer need George Lucas to sign off on unaltered HD releases; they've made it themselves.

Earlier versions of the DESPECIALIZED version did not have material from the 35mm prints available. Harmáček made do with other sources: a 16mm print scan of STAR WARS, the low-resolution DVD release of the unaltered trilogy and a few 35mm sequences here and there as they came in. Harmáček also received film cells that he used to create matte paintings to restore original backgrounds to shots.

Sometimes, the unaltered materials were of a very low resolution and had to be upscaled to blend with the HD blu-ray footage. In some cases, it was no big deal -- for fast motion scenes, the original effects could be blurred to blend; for the space battle scenes, there was so much movement that the absence of fine detail wasn't an issue.

In others, you'd have a sharp and pristine shot suddenly becoming jagged and rough, or there'd be a low resolution effect on an HD shot. These were isolated instances, but enough to distract -- such as the final scene of RETURN OF THE JEDI where Harmáček removed Hayden Christiansen, but the Anakin in the shot was low resolution where Yoda and Obi-Wan were in HD. With version 2.5, areas where the visual quality dropped have been replaced by 35mm material, sufficiently cleaned up so that mismatches, while noticeable if you pause to examine, are invisible during normal viewing.

I like some of the SPECIAL EDITION changes. I think it's ridiculous to alter scenes to insert CG slapstick comedy like robots in Mos Eisley fighting each other or amp up the space battle sound effects so much they drown out John Williams' award winning score or recolour the films so badly that all shadow detail is lost.

But there are some things worth doing -- like correcting special effects errors where planets show up inside asteroid fields or redoing the glow effect on the Millennium Falcon to look consistent or adding more stormtroopers to the Death Star hallways. Changes that don't make the movie look like it was filmed in 1977 but only got edited and received special effects in 1996.

THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK, if you set aside the crushed blacks and bad colouring, is a pretty good example of what a SPECIAL EDITION should be. The changes are minimal; the airspeeder windshields are now completely transparent where they were translucent and bluescreen artifacts are removed. Cloud City has windows digitally inserted to make the place seem bigger. The Falcon exterior hatch, once a vague, white space, now has mechanical texture and detail. It's not obvious what has been put onto the film after the fact; these changes are unintrusive while additive.

The SPECIAL EDITION versions of STAR WARS and RETURN are unwatchably schizophrenic for me. I'm glad Peter Harmáček has released this new version which isn't even new at all. Crazy how much work he had to do when Lucas could simply have new transfers made.

He put his 2.5 releases up on Torrent sites, merely stipulating that anyone downloading them should first buy the SPECIAL EDITION releases.

Well, this is just from re-reading the two novelizations and the script (and the script is no different from the finished film -- my God, a J.J. Abrams screenplay is tightly edited) -- Rey is starving. Not to death, but she's constantly hungry. She is furious when the pawn shop owner offers only a half-portion of rations, so hungry she licks her plate clean.

The Falcon flight is haphazard and desperate throughout and Daisy Ridley plays the character as absolutely terrified and noticeably straining to control the ship when playing both co-pilot and pilot, whispering, "I can do this I can do this" and on the verge of tears throughout. Noticeably, the novelization and the prequel novel, BEFORE THE AWAKENING, mention that Rey's only entertainment is a flight simulator -- which is not in the script. (The prequel novel is canon.)

When the mercenaries board Han Solo's ship, Rey tries to trigger the blast doors but screws up, releasing the monsters.

All of Rey's suggestions for fixing the Falcon are voiced by Han Solo at the same time or based on her knowledge of how the pawn shop owner modifies his stolen ships (the compressor, the fuel pump). The script specifies that Han and Rey talk over each other saying pretty much the same things about the Falcon -- Han could and would make all these fixes except he's flying the ship. It's possible that Rey is unconsciously reading Han's mind and pulling knowledge from it.

After the Force vision, Maz tells Rey that Rey is deluding herself; this belief that she has to go home to wait for her family is a lie she tells herself. She knows full well that no one will return for her.

When Rey is captured, Kylo-Ren rips right through Rey's mind, telling her the same thing; he knows she's a scavenger and that she's alone and that she has been abandoned and she lies to herself. He also sees that the map fragment is in her memory, but that's the only thing he can't pull out of her mind because he gets in so deep she can read his.

Rey's first two attempts to use the Force hypnosis on the stormtrooper fail.

When Rey first tries to fight Kylo Ren in the woods, Kylo sends her flying backwards and knocks her unconscious from a Force blast. Rey awakens to see Finn fighting and defeated and then she grabs the lightsaber, but Kylo easily drives her to the very edge of a cliff and tells her that she doesn't know how to use the Force. At that point, Rey closes her eyes and -- I think -- begins to trust the Force inside herself, her feelings for Finn, her grief for Han, her acceptance that her life at home was waiting for something that would never happen -- and then the Force guides her in the fight from that moment forward.

Han and Rey bonding so quickly -- oh come on. This is a god-damn STAR WARS movie. That's how these things work. Han bonded with Luke in STAR WARS and that was maybe half a day, to the point where Han (extremely charitably) declared Luke to be "good in a fight," which is one of the most laughable things Han has ever said. Luke's daughter, however, is a scrapper.

I do agree that Leia walking right past Chewie was a mistake and JJ Abrams says he blocked the scene incorrectly -- that Resistance soldiers should have been surrounding Chewie and ushering him and Finn to the infirmary and that Leia should have been kept at a distance to establish that she was standing back to let the medical professionals do their jobs. Abrams apologized for this.

I can see some reasons for Leia sending Rey alone. If you're trying to get a warrior to come out of retirement, sending him a potential protege is probably your best bet; there's no way Luke doesn't know that the galaxy has gone to hell in his absence. He's chosen to stay out of it for whatever reason -- earlier drafts, I believe, were going to overtly reveal that Luke has become so powerful in the Force that a word or a breath could shatter worlds and he's isolating himself to protect people. Leia has a Resistance to run and a government to rebuild after the Death Star Mark 3 blew up the Republic core system. Chewie knew that Han would have insisted on flying Rey to meet Luke.

And Leia always hated the Falcon and considered it a hyperdrive equipped death trap; she would give it away in a heartbeat to the first person dumb enough to assume responsibility for that creaking pile of malfunctions and dysfunctions.

Thanks for reading the first SLIDERS REBORN script.

4,055

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Informant wrote:

Wally West... I'm more upset about them changing him in the comics than on TV. They really didn't have a choice about his race on the TV show, since Joe and Iris are black (though they could have played Iris as bi-racial, I supposed).

The comics changing Wally struck me as a mis-guided but well-intentioned effort. DC has given no official statements on why they got rid of Wally West and brought back Barry Allen, but the reasoning seems self-evident to me. Wally West was too complicated a character for film and TV.

Wally's origin: Barry Allen is a police scientist who was doused in chemicals struck by lightning that gave him superspeed and then Barry's nephew was struck in a similar accident and became Kid Flash and then Barry died and Wally became the successor to Barry as the third Flash because there was actually a first Flash and who the hell would bother with any of this crap for a TV show or a movie?

All adaptations either used Barry's origin with Wally West's name or just used Barry. DC, realizing that it was only a matter of time before the Flash became a TV show or film, decided to get in line with what would be the most widely seen version of the Flash -- a Flash who is Barry Allen, police scientist. CSI with superpowers. Barry was brought back to life. His absence since 1986 was compressed to a year or two and explained with a cover story of him having been in witness protection.

This left them in a quandary of what the hell to do with Wally. They attempted to simply background him: he's the Flash of Keystone City appearing in group shots and back-up stories while Barry is now the focus of the FLASH title in Central City. But due to deadline issues and the writer getting stretched too thin, the back-up stories were never written. Then, with a company-wide reboot, it was simpler to just make it so that Barry was the Flash, period. At this point, there was a wish to bring Wally back -- but to adjust the character so that he was defined not as being Kid Flash or the third Flash -- but simply as Barry's nephew, hence all the alterations.

In retrospect, it probably would have been best to just not use Wally at all or put him on Earth 2 with the post-reboot Jay Garrick and Alan Scott (the first Flash and Green Arrow). But it wasn't meant with malice. Repiloting is tough, man.

I do not recognize this invincible, unchallenged character you describe. Rey in the film is clearly on her back foot throughout, struggling not to starve, isolated, alone, near the losing end of every fight, perpetually near defeat and only succeeding through sheer, dogged effort and a bizarre luck that can only be explained by the Force. STAR WARS is set in a universe where trying really hard actually counts. This Rey who never loses a fight and is never in trouble seems to be from some movie I haven't seen.

What I find is that cinema is full of characters who are tragically orphaned and more powerful than anyone and every supporting cast member is a willing love interest for these characters with genius level intelligence, Olympic level athleticism and incredible good looks matched terrible angst that only makes them more attractive especially when these characters are hypercompetent and earn implacable loyalty and demonstrate the ability to win no matter how much the odds are against them -- and while that's an acceptable template for Tom Cruise, Batman, Jason Bourne, James Bond, Indiana Jones, Captain Kirk, Mr. Spock, Sherlock Holmes, it's apparently implausible and questionable if even a portion of that template goes to a woman.

Which is why I simply don't buy the claim that the male version of Rey would receive complaints about competence and ability. Rey is no more implausible than any heroic figure of cinema, but because she's a woman, it's an issue.

4,058

(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I would say that I am not a fan of killing off characters, but it should be considered on a case by case basis. I'll use SUPERNATURAL as an example.

SUPERNATURAL introduced a teenaged character named Kevin Tran. In many ways, Kevin was an audience insertion character -- if a fan of SUPERNATURAL got involved in monster hunting, Kevin's life would be the cynical, grim depiction of this story. Kevin couldn't fight and was always scared and intimidated and a pawn.

SUPERNATURAL also introduced another audience insertion character -- Charlie Bradbury, a comedic hacker girl who regarded the world of SUPERNATURAL with terror, amusement and joy. If a fan of SUPERNATURAL got involved in monster hunting, Charlie's life would be the upbeat, positive depiction: she discovered she had a knack for fighting and researching the paranormal.

Kevin was killed off abruptly. It wasn't the greatest storyline, but I understood it. He couldn't defend himself and the lead characters couldn't protect him 24/7. Death was his only way out. It made sense and it didn't deprive the series of its ability to function.

Charlie was killed off abruptly. It didn't work for me: it diminished Charlie representing a fan who became a capable heroine in her own right and it deprived the series of a character whose comedic perspective and metatextual existence brought light and joy to a dark series. The dramatic benefits of killing Charlie were not worth the cost of doing so. (Informant would disagree; he hated Charlie.)

So, that's my take. Nobody should be 'off-limits,' but there should be a metric applied to possible character deaths before pulling the trigger. Will this death honour the character? Will this death damage the series' ability to use its formula? And also, is this death being thrown in to promote the show with a striking scene for the trailers? Or is it a natural outcome of the story?

I don't watch a lot of shows with character deaths. The shows I watch tend to be driven by their characters -- PARKS AND RECREATION, COMMUNITY -- where it's all about seeing specific people onscreen and depriving the show of them would be negating the series' very reason for existing. If I wanted doom and gloom and misery, I would reread the newspaper.

A lot of the problems cited with Rey -- which I don't really see as problems to begin with -- are really issues with STAR WARS.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I just thought there was a lot that she was very good at to start. Fixing things, fighting, piloting, force-pulls, jedi mind trick, lightsaber dueling.

Well, despite her competence, I definitely got the sense that Rey was in trouble and turmoil in many points of the movie such as when she struggled to buy enough food to live on and found it difficult to pilot the Falcon and nearly crashed it or was overwhelmed by the Force vision that caused her to flee into the forest or when she fought Kylo Ren with a blaster and was promptly disarmed or when he mind-raped her or when even a wounded Kylo dominated her in a lightsaber fight until she finally tapped into the Force and beat him.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Everyone loves her as soon as they meet her. Han wants her to stay after being with her for a few hours (and Han didn't bond like that with anyone else that fast).

Because she saved his life through the (insane and accidental) release of the monsters aboard the ship and also (inadvertently) retrieved the Millennium Falcon for him and (coincidentally) was willing to help Han find his old war buddy who had gone missing.

Han also offered Luke a job in STAR WARS.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Maz has a special connection immediately.

Maz specifically says she can feel the Force in Rey -- which is also especially present because Rey is telepathically drawn to the lightsaber that Anakin and Luke carried. Ah, the Force.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Hell, when everyone returns to the Resistance base, Leia walks right by Chewbacca and hugs Rey! And they hadn't even met!

Leia is Force sensitive as well (first established in EMPIRE when Luke reaches her telepathically) -- she felt Han's death through the Force (as shown in an insert where after Han's stabbed, Leia reacts) and felt Rey's reaction to Han's death through the Force. Admittedly, Chewie was likely grieving more, but Leia could actually feel Rey's sadness for Han and feel it mirror her own.

This just just how the Force works and has since 1977. I think the real issue, then, is the core weakness of STAR WARS -- the use of the Force to connect disparate events and direct characters in a fashion that, without the Force, would be implausibly nonsensical and random. The use of the Force to make characters possess knowledge and skills they haven't earned in precognitive bursts.

At its best, STAR WARS highlights use of the Force as self-awareness and awareness of the world and acting calculatedly yet honestly to others and to one's self and achieving harmony in both. At its worst, STAR WARS uses the Force as an excuse for narrative malpractice.

Nevertheless, to me, complaining about Rey's psi-powers and precognitive gifts is the equivalent of complaining that Batman is too good at fighting or Iron Man is too good at fixing machines or that Superman can fly. It also ignores numerous scenes where Rey is clearly in trouble. All Force users have demonstrated that their superpower is using the Force to very suddenly become super-talented at something they'd never touched before.

That is the universe this movie is set in, for better or for worse. Anyone telling STAR WARS stories either embraces it -- or finds a more logical franchise. It seems silly to criticize STAR WARS for using the Force. One might as well complain that DEADPOOL is unrealistic because the character is aware he's in a movie.

Well, the sequel problems will have to wait for the sequel. But in a series where it's been established that the Force will make a nine year old with no space flight experience someone who can singlehandedly defeat an invasion fleet of killer warships, there is really no issue with Rey's talents. And if Landis takes issue with the Force making characters capable, why is he watching a STAR WARS movie? Again, there was absolutely no outcry whatsoever over Anakin toppling the Trade Federation in the very first hour of space flight he ever logged -- and the main difference between Rey and her grandfather is that her grandfather was a man and that's acceptable for male protagonists and Rey should go back to the kitchen and think about finding a good husband and raising children.

I was just reminded that the first prequel has a nine year old boy defeat a fleet of spaceships in addition to winning a pod race and that didn't engender a flicker of protest. Which I think really underlines Landis' contempt for Rey. How dare a GIRL be competent, talented, capable and strong? Women can't be good at things, they're things to be owned.

Oh, God, here's that 2013 interview. I just re-read and need to take a bath.
https://web.archive.org/web/20131005120 … max-landis

I find it difficult to believe that anyone would raise these concerns with the Rey character if the character were a man and played by Jesse Eisenberg.

Landis was not born an arrogant asshole -- he seemed to become one after CHRONICLE's success went to his head. He is super-talented, but when he became famous and successful (well, famous), he developed some very peculiar issues with women. If you are a successful filmmaker or  Hollywood leading man (like Jerry O'Connell), women will throw themselves at you in the hopes of fame or work and sex will be an underlying part of the bargain. However, the mistake is to see this one subset of women -- women willing to trade sex for work or fame -- and assume that the mindset of these women are the mindsets of all women.

Landis, in a particularly appalling 2013 interview, doesn't even see women as self-actualizing beings of self-determination. They're just extensions and reflections of his ego and someone like that would naturally take issue with a woman being her own person with her own independent ability to survive. He's done good stuff -- AMERICAN ULTRA was fun and unfortunately released in the cinematic dead zone of August with extremely poor promotion that didn't show what a wonky blend of genres it contained.

But he has serious problems with 50 per cent of the human population and I can't see how that isn't a factor in his absurd claim that Rey beat a super-experienced Force user while deceitfully leaving out the fact that this Force wielder (a) just killed his own father (b) had psychologically imploded upon himself (c) had been shot in the stomach by Chewbacca (d) was periodically punching himself in the gut to numb the pain and shove his internal organs back into place and (e) so weak that he struggled to beat Finn.

As for Luke -- he's captured by a flesh eating monster in EMPIRE. He uses the Force to escape the creature and it's only once he's escaped does Han find Luke. Luke doesn't use the Force in the Battle of Hoth, but he does come up with the idea of typing up the AT-AT walkers with harpoons and tow cables and, even after getting shot down, he takes down one AT-AT using a grapple hook and a grenade. He's not incompetent, although he doesn't really use the Force outside of training and, when facing Darth Vader, only uses telekinesis now and then.

That's part of the critique Yoda makes; Luke is not in tune with the spiritual / plot-driven side of the Force -- and when Luke does use it, he sees Leia, Han and Chewie in Cloud City and rather than assessing the situation, he charges right in, finds Vader despite having never been to Cloud City and having no idea where Vader could be, gets his ass kicked  and he telepathically signals Leia to rescue him later.

He's expressly presented as a flawed hero who proves Yoda right that he was not ready to go to Cloud City and was also not even needed there. But he demonstrated Plot power in that he knew the action was on Cloud City through the Force. Darth Vader also uses the Plot power of the Force quite significantly in luring Luke to him as well as  in one scene where he instinctively knows the Rebels are on Hoth even though the officers protest there's no evidence to single it out among all the possible locations.

In RETURN OF THE JEDI, Luke's Plot powers are even more in evidence (an awareness of Vader, realizing his presence in the forest moon ship was a mistake), but his main use of the Force is to feel Darth Vader's internal conflict and capitalize on it. Ultimately, that's the Force in the classic trilogy; a Force user gains awareness of the story they're in and begins to manipulate the story with this knowledge, but their awareness is sporadic, unsustained and does not lead to omniscience.

Rey is a very different character who has grown up in a harsh and unyielding environment with no real support structure or guardians, eking out a living on scavenging mechanical parts and having to defend herself on all fronts. Luke had clearly never been in a fight in STAR WARS. Rey has clearly been in lots.

STAR WARS made it quite overt that Luke's Uncle Owen manipulated Luke's life to prevent him from ever needing his Force sensitivity -- farm work, no physical dangers, no threats -- whereas Rey has had to survive on her own and has been using the Force to survive even if she doesn't know it. Her understanding of the Falcon's systems are driven by the Force as presented in first three movies: bursts of precognitive instinct that forward the plot, with Kylo Ren inadvertently unlocking that gift entirely.

The original SLIDERS comics did okay, but they were hit by across the board distribution problems. The publisher, Acclaim, had a terrible reputation for non-payment / non-delivery created by a previous regime and the new owners and management couldn't break through the wall. Ultimately, the SLIDERS comics sucked for the most part. They were written in a mad rush mostly by writers who marathoned Seasons 1 - 2 in a couple days and drawn by superhero artists who weren't adept at grounded human drama. Changes were made, but before the comics could benefit from them, the entire company shut down.

In terms of marketing -- it would be foolish to try to sell SLIDERS comics or ebooks based on nostalgia. Instead, they should be sold on a brilliant storytelling engine of infinite possibilities. What if it's 2016 and the war on women has been lost? What if it's 2016 and electricity is rationed to individuals? What if it's 2016 and all digital privacy has become non-existent? Aim for an audience interested in science fiction anthology -- albeit an anthology that would feature the same four characters in every story.

4,065

(6 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm afraid that until SLIDERS REBORN is complete, any other SLIDERS project will have to wait. Hit me up again in 2017!

SliderTen wrote:

We fought tooth and nail to get season two made. If it wasn't for the email campaign that crashed FOX's servers, Sliders would've joined VR-5 for good.

The fan campaign for Season 3 was also completely insane in its focus and determination. It is a seminal achievement to be admired. I mean, you can't really evaluate a decision outside of the specific circumstances in which the decision was made; the fans had no way of knowing that they would resurrect a version of SLIDERS that was fundamentally diseased.

Personally, I think that it may be up to the fans to attempt to resurrect SLIDERS as a pilot project. PDF screenplays marketed to a general, entry-level audience. Like STAR WARS doing SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE and releasing novels, comic books, a soundtrack, videogames -- all the tie-in merchandise without an actual movie for it. However, we tried that and... well, we hit the problem I described above; the people contributing to the project came to the gradual but inescapable conclusion that they would gain more profit from doing their own stuff. Hell, Matt is constantly advising me to drop the SLIDERS stuff and write my spunky teen girl detective series instead.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Han's death also bothered me.  The first act implies that he abandoned his family after Ben went to the dark side.  Fair enough and fitting with Han's character - he was always the rogue, and it's hard for those guys to be daddy.  But there doesn't seem to be any indication that he's really worried about it since then.  Then he sees Leia, sees Ben, and that's what opens him up to be killed?  I'm not saying that he didn't love his son or that he was a bad father - I just didn't think the movie set him up for that to be his weakness.  But it was still very tense - my heart was beating out of my chest when it was happening.

This is one way to read it. Another way to read it is that Han would not have chosen to go out any other way. Which is not to say he hoped his death would come from being impaled by a lasersword wielded by his own son

But Han, even knowing his son was very possibly and probably going to kill him, had to give his son one last chance to redeem himself. He felt that, being Ben's dad, it was his obligation to give his son this final opportunity that nobody else would ever extend to Kylo Ren. And there is a certain symmetry to how the climax has a father reaching out to his child and the final scene is a child reaching out to her father -- all the grief and loss and loneliness and pain of abandonment on her face, salved by a small sense of hope.

But you can also look at it from the viewpoint that caring about your family can get you killed. It's probably both!

This is pretty cool. Thanks for sharing this!

It's really nice to go back in time and see Jerry taking his performance as Quinn very seriously with John's guidance, Cleavant and Sabrina's obvious adoration for their fellow cast members, John's impassioned belief in SLIDERS' potential and the verisimilitude of location filming in Vancouver. The good old days.

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I mean think about all the shows and movies you consider yourself a fan of.  Now how many are you willing to write fanfic for?  How many are you willing to talk about on a daily basis?  And how many would you be willing to say, "I'm putting my life on hold to devote to this?"

This is very true. However, it leads to another question -- how much time, attention, thought, consideration and effort would SLIDERS require if the show had stayed in Vancouver, done 5 - 7 seasons with the original characters and then ended with a two hour finale presenting a final adventure and a happy ending?

One of the reasons SLIDERS REBORN is delayed -- I decided I had to find a way to work Mallory into the series (preferably without altering the story already in place). It was simply wrong to have an anniversary celebration without a role for Robert Floyd. If SLIDERS hadn't been run so clumsily and unprofessionally, would any of these extensive mental gymnastics and online story conferences be necessary?

(Hilariously, Rob personally assured me that he would not be offended by his exclusion from a piece of fan fiction for a television show he worked on for one year over a decade and a half ago -- and it STILL bothered me.)

But that's just the fans. From an unsentimental and economical standpoint, there is no real upside to remaking SLIDERS. You'd have to give up large amounts of profit and control to the rightsholders and creators, whereas if you made your own parallel universe series -- like PARALLELS -- you could do what you wanted. And if you don't bring back the original cast or if you're determined to do a NEXT GENERATION -- then aren't you basically doing PARALLELS? An new TV show with new characters that might not even benefit from having the SLIDERS legacy behind it?

Finally got around to seeing this (at home). I thought it was a pretty good pastiche of the original STAR WARS, but it lacks the originality and vision to be the cinematic event of the original 1977 movie because it's simply imitating the original -- and with a new cast. But that's okay. Repiloting can be tough especially when your core cast members are only willing or able to do supporting roles and you need to create a new team.

The stuff about Rey being a Mary Sue is stupid and Max Landis has become a tiresome bore, has been for awhile. Rey is notedly not good at everything; she can't negotiate bargains on her scavenged hardware. She nearly smashes the Falcon to bits her first time flying it. She is hopeless in handgun combat. The only reason she defeats Kylo Ren at the end is because Chewie shot him first.

Landis seems to take real issue with Rey knowing how to handle herself in her first fight at the settlement -- as though a young girl living all alone in a hostile environment with no law enforcement or stable society would have made it past puberty without knowing how to fight.

When Kylo Ren first Force-interrogates her, he reaches into her mind and then recoils as though he's being fought back while Rey's fear and helplessness are suddenly replaced with resolve -- his use of the Force in her mind unlocked something he's afraid of and he flees. Rey's instinctive trial and error results in patching the Falcon and using the lightsaber are part of her Force sensitivity guiding her hand.

In the first STAR WARS movie, Luke trusting the Force allowed him to:

(a) block blaster bolts with a lightsaber while BLINDFOLDED
(b) navigate the Death Star and escape with Leia from the cell to the hangar using a jumpline to swing across a chasm
(c) telepathically reach Darth Vader from across the hangar to pause the Obi-Wan/Vader fight to give Luke a last moment with the old man
(d) use the Falcon gun system effectively after a few missed shots despite having never used it before
(e) telepathically communicate with a dead man (Obi-Wan)
(f) fire two torpedos into a tiny ventilation shaft without a computer targeting system.

The original film alone establishes that the Force is fundamentally about its wielders receiving augmented instinct in making physical and strategic choices, trusting the guidance of the Force where knowledge or experience are not available. Force wielders who combine knowledge and experience with the Force become more powerful. While telepathy and telepathy are part of it, the main power of the Force is precognitive awareness of the plot. The original STAR WARS could see the word "Force" replaced with "Plot."

The prequel trilogy shot this to hell by making the Force all about briefly acquiring superstrength and superspeed in short bursts that, if sustained or repeated too much, would exhaust the user along with the telepathy and telekinesis. FORCE AWAKENS returns to the original conception of the Force with Rey.

Rey is shown to struggle, screw up and figure it out due to perseverance / Force sensitivity. Max Landis' whiny rant about Rey strikes me as him inventing evidence to justify an inherent distaste towards a Sabrina Lloyd type actress being portrayed as anywhere near Tom Cruise capable because he has some internal discomfort for female characters who aren't designed to be damsels in distress.

The idea of the Force being a myth is an idea later contradicted by George Lucas' inability to keep his own mythos straight. The Force was an urban legend at best in the original trilogy; in the prequels, Force users are elected government officials.

The Force is not an ancient and obscure religion if your ****ing Senators and Chancellors are levitating spaceships and firing electricity from their fingertips. The script for AWAKENS takes a careful middle ground -- everything is known -- the Death Star run, the mind control, the levitation -- but not necessarily believed, which, given the crazy propaganda machine of the Empire and the devastation of the original trilogy war, is not unreasonable.

Slider_Quinn21 adopting Landis' absurd and provably false views strikes me as SQ21 (a) having a fuzzy memory of how Force powers worked and (b) having no memory of what Han actually said about the Force in the first STAR WARS (c) not noticing how the prequels contradicted Han's dialogue and (d) putting Max Landis on a pedestal, just as he puts me and Informant on a pedestal he shouldn't.

In my view, Informant is a skillful writer who does not pay as much attention as he might to reader satisfaction, ireactions is at best a pastiche artist with a self-mocking sense of humour and a willingness to buy story ideas when he can't come up with his own -- and Slider_Quinn21 needs to review Landis' material and consider it in the course of forming Slider_Quinn21's own opinion -- as opposed to defaulting to the assumption that Landis is never wrong, especially when Landis demonstrates not only poor familiarity with STAR WARS but with THE FORCE AWAKENS as well.

Chewie had SHOT Kylo Ren, for god's sake -- Kylo was desperately trying to shove his internal organs into shape during the fight with Rey. Landis has gone from being a capable firebrand to a tedious dullard in just four years and it's sad to see and his issues with women are further in that absurd 2013 interview.

The film has a lot of weaknesses and the weaknesses are primarily due to using the original STAR WARS as a stencil, recreating the flaws of the original without the originality of the original. The main problem, I'd say, is that Rey's journey from uncertain scavenger to Resistance warrior is not the main focus of the story due to the necessity to set up Finn and Poe and also bring in Han, Leia and Chewie as a nod to the original trilogy.

There are moments that could be highlighted further, like Kylo telling Rey that she waits for nothing on her home planet and her family will not return, using the Force to destroy her belief system. At one point, Kylo says Rey sees Han as a father figure, a baffling remark considering they only spent a few hours together.

Poe Dameron disappears for most of the film and it's hard to relate to strongly to him, meaning the aerial battle of AWAKENS is a token segment and of no real importance. AWAKENS, being a pastiche of the first STAR WARS movie, is still stuck in a world where there is inexplicably no means of data transmission; all data must be ferried in hard media carried in droids because the Internet didn't exist in 1977 and is being ignored in 2015.

But it's fun. It captures the same fun of the original. Daisy Ridley and John Boyega have great and instant chemistry. After the bloated self-importance of the prequels, it's nice to get back to FLASH GORDON whizbang -- but I hope that now that STAR WARS has repiloted, we can innovate and expand. Maybe the next STAR WARS movie will have the Internet.

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(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I've enjoyed Laurel's arc. Season 2 put her on a hilariously self-destructive path from becoming the Arrow's archnemesis to her totally justifiable rage at Sarah for faking her death and returning to a happy homecoming. Season 3 was neat where she sought to honour her sister and spare her father the pain. Throughout all of it, I liked how Laurel kept it prominent that Oliver was not born a driven, hardened crusader against evil but was a shallow and unfaithful little creep and how she didn't truly realize how much he'd changed.

I never found her interesting on her own, but she was an interesting figure in how she related to Oliver. I never felt like Laurel was less than what she needed to be; she was written as a civilian and an office worker, not a superhero, and when she became a superhero, it was in a somewhat misguided effort to keep her sister alive in her heart. I thought they did a nice job. I was quite relieved that the romance was dropped after Season 1 and Laurel had her own motivations and goals even if they were designed to bring complications to Oliver's life rather than Laurel's life. No complaints on Season 2 - 4 Laurel for me.

4,072

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm fine with the show. I enjoy it well enough. I can't say it's not a challenge to try to review the story someone set out  to tell rather than the story I wish they'd have told, but I generally manage. Laurel's character was always a problem; they did some neat stuff with her and I would have been happy to see her remain a regular, but I can't say that killing her off deprives us of a great love story or a great superhero character as rendered on this show.

The character ARROW wrote was very obviously created as a version of Rachel Dawes from the Nolan BATMAN movies during Season 1 when ARROW was trying (and failing) to be a Nolan pastiche, and that template was all wrong for being the Black Canary from the comics. She became the Black Canary of ARROW, but ultimately, she was Oliver's friend who knew him before he became a warrior and could still be friends with him even after he cheated on her with her sister. She was the person who could see how much Oliver had changed.

I sometime suspect that a lot of the shipping wars are actually fanned by Katie Cassidy herself, who would post clips or trailers on Twitter with text complaining about the Felicity/Oliver scenes or declare in interviews that Laurel would be Oliver's first and last girlfriend and that Felicity was a fling. Stepping back from the fan rage, all that strikes me as Cassidy deliberately provoking fans and pretending there's some great rivalry between her and Emily Bett Rickards -- a rivalry certain segments of fandom have adopted. In reality, the two women are friends.

My issues with ARROW's first season was the constant tonal dissonance -- the scripts were humourless and had Oliver grimly intoning about saving his city, but there were silly things like Oliver being bizarrely confident that his list of names was meaningful even though he had no information to accompany it. Then there was Oliver creating his HQ through what appeared to be one day of intensive sledgehammering. It was ridiculous.

Season 2 -4 have gotten much more fun. Season 2 was solid, but Season 3 crashed hard with Oliver's nonsensical resurrection and the League of Assassins having no clear motive, goal, purpose, philosophy or much of anything beyond wanting Oliver to join them because.

Season 4's been fine. I see all the issues Informant raises, but I don't feel them as severely; Felicity being upset because Oliver having a son was the latest in a long line of crazy revelations was pretty understandable to me. The idol being disabled by Vixen but suddenly stored in the base was absurd, but no moreso than Speedy being an oxycontin addict whose issues faded away after a few stern talks and a date with Roy or Oliver deciding to investigate his mother's involvement in the Undertaking by crashing into her office, threatening her once, fleeing when attacked and then refusing to get into it any further.

4,073

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I guess for me -- while I have some issues with the soap opera of the show and some of the plots -- I don't find the problems as glaring as the problems I had with Season 1, and I thought Season 1 was terrible. So, the show didn't really start in a great place for me and I see no gold standard that it's failing to reach. I find it as flawed as ever, except the flaws have migrated to areas that don't annoy me as much as they annoy you.

Moving onto the shipping wars, which haven't really been in evidence around here and hopefully never will -- Laurel has been problematic since the first episode. In the comics, Black Canary is essentially a more feminine version of the showboating, arrogant, activist Green Arrow. But the actors they cast and the scripts they wrote bear almost no resemblance to the comic book characters.

Stephen Amell's The Hood/Arrow/Green Arrow is a driven, angry, troubled, resolute, solitary veteran of war, nothing like the adventurous thrillseeker of the comic books. Katie Cassidy's Laurel Lance is not the goofy, daring, fun-loving, high-spirited heroine who was Oliver Queen's partner in lunacy. In the comics, there's a very natural sense of two like-minded spirits who are head over heels in love. In ARROW -- you can see why the playboy Oliver might have dated Laurel and admired her, and you can see why Laurel might have had fun with the playboy Oliver -- but there is absolutely no sense that the two of them are partners in life and lunacy or could ever be.

If you ever read the GREEN ARROW comics, the idea of the spontaneous, random, eccentric Dinah Lance being a lawyer or a district attorney would be completely unthinkable. And the idea of Oliver Queen being a nightclub owner is so utterly alien to the comic book incarnation that it's funny; the Oliver Queen of the comics would prefer to go fishing and camp out in the mountains.

So, right from the start, there was this expectation that Oliver and Laurel would be the couple of the series based on the comics -- and it was an expectation the writers didn't seem to keen on themselves as they made Laurel hostile and hateful towards Oliver and made it clear Oliver was too racked with guilt and grief over his crappy behaviour towards Laurel to go near her like that, especially when she was dating his best friend. By the midpoint of Season 1, it was pretty clear that the characters as scripted didn't make a good couple and the actors as performing didn't have a lot of chemistry.

There was also a serious problem in the way they'd written Laurel Lance -- she was incredibly one-note as nothing but the love interest for one man or another, and with Season 2, the writers tried to course correct by giving Laurel a lot of personal problems from addiction to hatred of the Arrow to her sheer loathing for Sara Lance.

It was a tough road, but it finally dimensionalized Laurel and by Season 3, it was possible to see Laurel as a partner, ally and comrade to Oliver -- but there was no romance there. However, years of SMALLVILLE had apparently created a vast audience of superhero fans who weren't deeply familiar with the source material but were certain that the defaults of the source material as the knew them -- Green Arrow and Black Canary are a couple -- would be the eventual default of the show as well.

Ultimately, ARROW went its own route and I give them a lot of credit for that. But it's unquestionably where a lot of the shipping rage and wars come from -- for whatever reason, a certain segment of fans have a bizarre sense of entitlement that they justify by claiming that killing off Laurel is an unacceptable divergence from the source material.

4,074

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Another thought on shipper outrage -- I think it's stupid. I'm a shipper in a sense -- I enjoy seeing certain pairings of actors. I love seeing Quinn and Wade bounce off each other. I got really annoyed when the Clark/Chloe pairing was broken up on SMALLVILLE, but my issue was not that they weren't a couple. My issue was that the show rarely put these two characters in the same scene for various behind the scenes reasons that ultimately served to drag the show down.

Dan Harmon has a hilarious Season 6 commentary on an episode I can't recall where he briefly does an impression of a Jeff-Annie shipper whining that Jeff and Annie had an argument, and that he hates the show now because he measures it only in terms of a specific romance; no other character or storyline on the show has any value and that the show exists only to produce this one isolated element of its plots and characters.

Ultimately, that's how I see the more militant shippers. Regardless of whether Oliver was paired with Laurel or Felicity, he interacted regularly with both characters. Given how the majority of the series has had Oliver single and those fans kept watching, the appeal was not Oliver being in a romantic relationship with one or the other but simply being in scenes with those characters. And whether or not the show is currently supporting an Oliver/________ pairing, it shouldn't be the only measure of quality.

In terms of content, the Sliders Rewatch at http://rewatchpodcast.podomatic.com and the Sliderscast at www.sliderscast.com have certainly given fans a lot to enjoy and discuss. Every couple years, some fan looks up Tracy Torme's phone number and calls him to talk about a potential reboot. There's a 20th anniversary special over at www.earthprime.com/reborn with one final chapter to go. But the biggest draw to this board appears to be superheroes. We get really enthused discussing the DC Extended Universe, the Marvel Cinematic Universe, the DC shows and I often suspect it's because the sliders are, in fact, superhero characters.

I think, also, SLIDERS had fans like Temporal Flux and the Expert who found all the behind the scenes info for why casting changes were made and why certain stories were told. In an Internet era, most shows see all their behind the scenes stuff out in the open, often revealed in the cast and creators' social media accounts or in audio commentaries. With SLIDERS, fan experts had to dig, but the result is that SLIDERS can be discussed in its behind the scenes context just as extensively as any modern TV series -- whereas other 90s shows like SEAQUEST and EARTH 2 and MANTIS and LOIS & CLARK will never have their secrets known as wholly or exhaustively because those shows did not luck into investigators as capable and resourceful as TF and the Expert.

But I think the reason SLIDERS is still actively discussed with all of us demonstrating a shocking skillfulness in bringing any discussion of any film, novel or TV show back to SLIDERS -- SLIDERS was an anthology series with a regular cast and any story is conceivably a SLIDERS story. (That's not to say it would be a GOOD story.)

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(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I was fine with Laurel's death. I was sad because I really like the actress and I enjoyed the character a lot from Season 2 onward. In terms of the fan response -- if the character had to be written out for whatever reason, this was a good ending for her. She told Oliver she loved him and in a very unselfish, earnest way. She had come to the close of her career as the Black Canary and beaten alcoholism, drug addiction, tragedy. She went from a bland female character to a self-destructive time bomb to a superhero. Team Arrow is fighting a war. Casualties are a simple reality.

The only narrative issue I took with the episode -- Diggle's insane faith in his brother was ridiculous and the show plainly declares it to be ridiculous and I get it, but I couldn't quite wrap my head around Oliver not kidnapping Andy quietly and locking him up in the Pipeline or the island prison until this thing was resolved.

As for the other complaints about the show as a whole -- I guess I see them, but I've never found ARROW to be particularly problem-free. Season 1, I found absolutely ridiculous in that the show was filmed and shot as a Serious Cinematic Christopher Nolan Crime Drama but with hammy performances, stagey looking sets and absurd characterization like the Huntress becoming evil because she finds out Oliver has an ex-girlfriend. Oliver's voiceovers were embarrassing. Moira Queen was insufferable. Tommy and Laurel were useless. You can't have the lead character get in fights week after week and look picture perfect and still claim to be a Grounded Action Drama.

Seasons 2 - 4 have veered into a heightened, exaggerated superhero escapism. All the flaws are largely due to the show diving into the absurdities of the genre where Season 1 was hesitant and restrained and trying to be serious. Over time, the absurdities have mounted and accumulated with nearly every character becoming a vigilante and the technology becoming as advanced as STAR TREK's and the mythologizing of certain characters (the Arrow and Felicity) getting over the top due to doing it in many episodes over a season.

There are some areas where I think the show went too far in Season 3, such as making Felicity the perfect female specimen desired by all men because the writers became hopelessly besotted with the actress who played her. There are aspects of the show that remain contrived and silly like the idol somehow being intact after Vixen destroyed it and Oliver's flashbacks progressing through plot elements always in sync with whatever's happening five years afterwards. But... it's a superhero show. I guess I just accept that it's absurd and the show gave up realism sometime around the revelation of the Undertaking in Season 1.

It's always been ridiculous -- I think it's just gotten ridiculous in areas that some viewers find irksome and possibly through familiarity having made certain plot elements grating.

4,077

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ME: "So, I think the solution is that Mallory isn't actually in the story. Quinn is alone hallucinating and near-death and he sees Mallory -- who is actually his subconscious survival instinct as played by Rob Floyd. I got rid of the psychics and mind control and voodoo so you won't hate it."

MATT: "You're wrong. I already hate it. The moment you removed voodoo from the equation? Me equals out. But why does Quinn end up in this near-death situation all by himself?"

ME : "Because I want the story to be largely Quinn and Mallory onscreen talking."

MATT: "Okay. So why is Quinn all by himself? Because you have to have a better answer than that."

ME: "Arrogant overconfidence."

MATT: "Wrong. You're going to be wrong every time. The answer is he doesn't go in by himself."

ME: "I have come up with an explanation for why Quinn goes in alone. It could even be considered insightful."

MAGGIE: "Mallory, you sure you don't need backup on this one?" 

QUINN: "Maggie, come on. This takedown is going to be the most boring thing to happen since Wade dated a robot."

MALLORY: "Interesting move there. No shortage of friends. A crack squad of commandos and Marines who stand at your side. But you came here alone. Every choice. Every crossroad. Always alone."

QUINN: "I thought I had this." 

MALLORY: "You always do -- and you're proven right time and time again -- until you're facing off against a tornado or worse."

QUINN: "I needed a word with alone with Mr. Holt. One more word. I needed to convince myself.. convince him -- that he shouldn't give up."

MALLORY: (looking at Holt's body) "Good job there."

MATT: "Blegh. Stop referencing shitty Season 3 plots. I'm telling you, it's odd without the other sliders."

ME: "Oh, the others show up at the end. But Quinn gets himself into this mess, he gets himself out. Mallory isn't really there."

MATT: "With this rationale, why not swap in Colin?"

ME: "Because I FUCKING HATE CHARLIE O'CONNELL."

MATT: "That mindset doesn't serve the story. It serves ego."

ME: "This is not ego. This is a tribute to a good man and a wonderful actor who treated my show with respect and dignity. Rob deserves to be in SLIDERS REBORN. Charlie O'Connell... uh, he can have my bowling membership card. The real issue is working out a situation where Quinn is near death but can escape because Mallory points him to some tiny, minute piece of information that Quinn and his genius dismissed as irrelevant but turns out to be critical to get out alive."

MATT: "Blegh. That is the sound of personal bias overriding story. By your own admission, you are writing toward the scene you want to see, but you're not planning anything. You will put whatever will justify, to you, the scene between Quinns."

ME: "I'm not writing a script, just bullet points, because I don't quite know how to get to The Quinns aside from knowing it has to be the first scene."

MATT: "I know. That's why you hit me up with this bulletproof write-up, correct? So I could shoot some bullets in it?"

ME: "I was kind of hoping you could apply some wax and polish to it as well."

MATT: "I couldn't plot this stuff. It's so dense."

ME: "Do you mean dense as in stupid or dense as in overly layered or are you cleverly meaning it both ways?"

MATT: "You have good ideas. They're just overly complicated."

ME: "So, in your logical, flights of fantasy free version of this story, what would happen?"

[Ten minutes later]

ME: "Well. I see now that the labyrinth of a manufacturing complex being flooded with explosive hallucinogenic gas by an industrialist who's enslaved his workforce for reasons unknown may have been a little too convoluted."

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(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:
Informant wrote:

I'm just not sure how I'd go about restructuring the series at this point.

I think it'd take an incident where Alex is killed.

This is pretty much the attitude of Sony towards AMAZING SPIDER-MAN. It never works. Yes, SUPERGIRL made mistakes out the gate where it needed to choose A or B and it chose both. But what's done is done. Rather than try to turn SUPERGIRL into a different show, it would be best to identify the strengths of this mis-mash and make the best of it now. Retooling at this point would only deepen the creative dissonance. What works about SUPERGIRL?

The cast is superb: Melissa Benoist, Chyler Leigh and David Harewood have terrific chemistry, Benoist bouces off Mechad Brooks and Jeremy Jordan nicely, Callista Flockhart is a good foil.

While there are filming issues, the superpowers are for the most part well rendered. The costume and flying effects are terrific, the fight sequences, outside of odd lapses, come off well. It's the superhero action show SMALLVILLE wasn't.

The tone is appealing. This show embraces the goofy, earnest fun of superheroes and presents Supergirl's morality and compassion as intrinsic to her nature and reflective of the potential of all human beings to behave responsibly and well.
Humour: the scripts are full of fun jokes and great wisecracks.

Legacy: the show is respectful of SUPERMAN's cinematic and televisual history, casting Helen Slater and Dean Cain in major roles, and also reflects familiar for the source material with its use of the Martian Manhunter, Toyman, Silver Banshee, etc..

What does not work? I would say that the problem is not that SUPERGIRL doesn't work; it's that all the aspects that work well also work in opposition to each other. Supergirl is a determined and easily intimidated little bookworm of a thrillseeker who works as an intern at a media agency as a highly placed agent of a top secret government agency who is in her late twenties but has no experience dating, making friends, holding down a job or using her powers and has feelings for geek icon Jimmy Olsen who is played by a six foot tall basketball player type.

.................................

I think the only option here is to turn into the swerve. First, it's time to move Winn. When you have Jimmy, you don't need another male friend at Catco, but since the actor's on contract, relocate him to the DEO and make him Alex's associate more than Kara's.

Second, Mehcad Brooks is Jimmy Olsen, deal with it. It's time to shift him from being on the executive staff at Catco to someone whose role is working the streets of National City, gathering stories that will lead to the grounded, ordinary people plots of episodes while Winn and Alex serve the fantasy plots. When Jimmy wanders into a DEO plot, the show should highlight how he feels like he's stumbled into a different TV series.

Third, I think the dissonance in Supergirl should be embraced as representing the schizophrenic nature of Supergirl's life. The series should develop three distinct and separate visual styles: crisp, still filming for the DEO/fantasy plots and documentary style camerawork for the mundane side of the series at Catco. For Season 2, Kara can develop multiple personality disorder as a result of the schism and the show really mine that for drama rather than pretend it doesn't exist.

For better or worse, this is SUPERGIRL. Attempting to turn it into a different show at this stage would just make a bigger mess; one might as well just cancel the series and do a reboot and there's no need to do that. There's plenty to enjoy with SUPERGIRL. SUPERGIRL could be a lot worse.

It could be an ugly, nasty series like GOTHAM or take itself far too seriously like the first 13 episodes of ARROW or be crassly objectifying like Seasons 2 - 7 of SMALLVILLE or be incapable of rendering superheroes like LOIS & CLARK or be a depressing bore like BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN or be witlessly self-important like that WONDER WOMAN pilot or be visually inept like the first 13 episodes of SUPERBOY or be unable to choose a tone like PUNISHER WAR ZONE.

The tone of SUPERGIRL is good. The spirit of the series is strong. The details just need some selective refinement. Choices must be made.

I read the AMAZING SPIDER-MAN script during its filming -- and then I sadly lost the PDF in a computer failure, which is to say I failed to copy all my files to my new computer and sold off the old one. There's probably a netbook floating around this city that has the PDF on its hard drive.

My memory's a little fuzzy, but in the draft I read, Uncle Ben's murderer goes uncaught -- and that was the central arc of the film. Peter becomes Spider-Man for revenge, but he learns more about his father through Curt Connors, Peter realizes his dad buried his research to prevent it from being used to make weapons. To protect people.

Peter stops searching for Uncle Ben's killer, instead searching for people to help. The sketch of the killer, at the end, simply meant that Peter would keep an eye out for this man, but Spider-Man was no longer about settling the score. But Sony cut almost all of Peter's discoveries about his father. In doing so, they cut this arc.

On a side note -- I think the idea of a Spider-Man cinematic universe was really stupid and I follow Spider-Man religiously. Spider-Man has a great supporting cast and a terrific rogues gallery, but I can't imagine them being sufficient to lead their own films without Spidey in the main role.

In the comics, Spider-Man's world is populated by the Avengers (who regarded Spidey as an ineffectual child playing superhero until recent years), the Fantastic Four (who regard Spidey as a child except for the Human Torch, who considers Spidey an equal), the X-Men (who scare the hell out of Spider-Man with their dark futures and soap opera) and the Silver Surfer, Thor and Loki (whom Spider-Man would prefer to avoid because they're out of his league).

Restrict the Spider-Man Cinematic Universe to characters tied into the Spider-Man rights and you have mostly villains. Villains, by their nature, are not designed to be lead characters and Spidey only has one strong anti-hero antagonist (the Black Cat). SINISTER SIX and VENOM are film proposals where you'd be expected to cheer on the bad guys, an unlikely proposition for the superhero genre. The thing about most SPIDER-MAN comics is that the best tend to be comedies and his villains are meant to be a bit silly.

I don't think you can base an entire film on the Shocker and Hammerhead and the Gibbon and the Spot. And heroes from the Spider-Man rights -- I guess you've got the Rocket Racer, Frog Man, Puma and the Slingers? Most of these characters were designed as jokes to reflect some aspect of Spidey himself; they depend on Spidey as the lead.

Sony wanted a cinematic universe because everyone else seemed to be doing one; the fact that Spider-Man tends to be about Peter Parker was something they tried to ignore and I think it cost that regime their jobs. Not that the new regime is any better based on their new Sony Pictures chariman, Tom Rothman, and his track record of X-MEN: THE LAST STAND and X-MEN ORIGINS: WOLVERINE.

What should Sony have done? Personally, I would have used the cinematic universe elements that were suited to what was available -- which is cross-platform storytelling. I would have used AMAZING SPIDER-MAN as a big screen pilot for a streaming series.

The series would be computer animated using the pioneering cel-shaded format developed by the MTV series but using motion capture and voice acting from Andrew Garfield and Emma Stone. I would also have a series of video games that used the same visual style.

This way, SPIDER-MAN would continue as a series between films. I think with three or four 13 episode seasons, the characters would have come to mean even more -- and then Gwen's death in ASM2 would have meant something as opposed to being a discordant note. ASM2 could be designed to work for both people who've watched the series and people who didn't and be a big live action season finale to kick off another run of animated episodes. This format would be very focused on spending time with likable characters with movies and between movies.

Sony seemed obsessed with copying Marvel -- I think they should have, instead, drawn inspiration from Lucasfilm and CLONE WARS.

I think you vastly overestimate Jerry's clout. If he had the power to bring SLIDERS back, he would have done it by now. He is downplaying this in interviews, but Jerry was the one who made the first call to Tracy.

He wanted to play Quinn Mallory again. But I don't think Jerry can get this project together. He is well off, but he certainly can't essentially give away the $20 million or so to put even a low-budget film together. I guestimate his net worth at about $12 million and his discretionary income at about $500,000 to 1 million annually. As a celebrity, he is known, but he's hardly Tom Cruise or even Tom Felton.

I was thinking of Jerry playing Michael Mallory in a reboot as a recurring guest-star, not a regular. He'd be in a couple episodes now and then as a double of Quinn's dead father. It'd be necessary to make Quinn in the reboot a bit younger than 20 in order for Jerry to be his father.

I don't see Jerry in the Arturo role. He's the hyperactive father, not the semi-retired Professor.

This is just my view, but Quinn is not designed to function without Wade, Rembrandt and the Professor. The show was not QUINN MALLORY; the show was SLIDERS; they were all essential to each other. Youth and age. Scientific experience and emotional experience. Activism and conservatism. Blue collar and academic. Jerry as Quinn without Sabrina, Cleavant and John would just depress me. Jerry as Michael Mallory would be a nice nod.

That said, I do not think the SLIDERS REDUX is in any way complicated or confusing to new viewers. 2016: Quinn Mallory and friends discover the gateway to parallel dimensions, but on their first adventure, they lose their way back home. A webisode reveals that these are not older doubles but amnesiac versions of the original sliders whose 1995-series adventures were rewound off camera through a cosmic reset button. The casual audience would never see the webisodes.

The only problem I see with the REDUX is that Sabrina Lloyd might be difficult to secure and John Rhys-Davies might be unwilling to resume running from security guards, bungee jumping, diving out of the vortex, etc.. But setting aside that along with Slider_Quinn21's hatred for old people*, Jerry and Sabrina look as attractive as ever and John and Cleavant having aged would add a lot. SLIDERS is meant for a cult audience in the end; do it on a lower budget for a streaming service and an audience inclined to the series will find it.

*Hahaahahhaahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah!