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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I just watch movies differently. One of my favorite movies is Signs. If you ask most people, they will say that Shyamalan is a hack, and Signs was a movie about an alien invasion. If you ask me to describe the movie, I would say that it is a fascinating film about faith and the demons that we face. I don't see aliens at all... I'm not even talking like alien were a metaphor. I don't think they were aliens at all. Everything that we were told about the situation were from the point of view of people who had no idea what was happening, so they came to the most sensible explanation, in their minds.

If you ask me about The Happening and how people react to it, I tend to laugh. People talk about how air is killing people and how stupid it was. I love it because that is what they tell us in the movie, but one of the first scenes in the movie tells us that people will always come up with an explanation to explain things that have no real explanation. The movie is an homage to 1950's paranoia films. Everything from the dialog to the costumes points to this. If you watch it in black and white, it actually works better as a movie. I enjoy it quite a lot, despite the fact that its Rotten Tomatoes scores are far, far worse than Batman v Superman.

I just watch movies differently than most people. I think that if Hitchcock were making movies today, he'd be considered a horrible failure with movies like The Trouble with Harry or even The Birds. Those movies just wouldn't go anywhere today.

That doesn't mean that I just go making up my own meaning for bad movies and make them good in my head. I don't think that every movie is intended to be viewed this way, just like not every book is meant to be examined and discussed. Sometimes it's there, sometimes it's not.

So yeah, they never have a shot of Lois pointing at Clark and Zod fighting and saying "Look! He's trying to get Zod away from the city!", but watching the movie, I see it. I see him punching for distance rather than pain. I see him dragging the fight into space, only to have Zod drag it back down. I see that scene on screen. I don't know how it was scripted, but I've seen the movie a lot of times and I know that there is footage of him trying to take the fight out of the city.

I don't see Clark as grim or dark or cold or inhuman just because he doesn't smile and play baseball with kids. I see him as a person, like most of the people I know. Because he is like most of the people I know, I relate to him more. I get what he is thinking. I know what it feels like to be scared of leaving the house as a kid, and to take those first steps of freedom.


With Batman v Superman, you say that we don't see enough about people hating him or being mad at him. I disagree. Most of the movie is from the point of view of those people, and the result is that we see a Superman who comes across as angry or inhuman a lot of the time. That is how they see him.
And then we see him from the perspective of the people who love him, but even there he isn't seen as human. He is seen as a mythical savior. I don't think we would see more shots of him connecting with those people, because those people are the ones that we are seeing those scenes through. It isn't about him.

The problem with the movie is that we see Superman from the perspectives of everyone around Superman, but not from the perspective of Superman. It's an interesting choice. I didn't dislike the movie because of it. But if people see Superman in a scene and think that he is the hero of that scene by default, they will be let down. The movie was Batman vs. Superman, the same way a movie would be Batman vs. Clayface. Batman was the star and Superman was the target. We were expecting a movie that was equal parts Batman and Superman, or that Superman would at least be a strong point of view character in the movie. That isn't what we got. This is not a Superman sequel, which is where the problem comes in. His perspective takes up about as much time as Wonder Woman's. Maybe it should have been a Superman movie. I don't know.

Wait... this is the Marvel thread? smile

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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

It's weird how differently I see Man of Steel and Batman v Superman than you guys. When I watch Man of Steel, I absolutely see Clark trying to get the fight away from the city, and Zod trying to inflict as much damage as possible. The whole battle seemed like a desperate attempt on Superman's part, at least to me. And when it comes to BvS, I don't see it as the world adoring him as much as you do. I see a world where there are a lot of different views of Superman. Some love him. Some hate him. He doesn't know what to do with either side.

A lot of what we see of Superman in that movie is from the perspective of others though. We see the flood from the perspective of a victim, looking up at him. We see the Mexican fire from the perspective of the crowd that envelops him. We see the Battle of Metropolis from Bruce's point of view. We even see his statue from the perspective of a guy who hates him. There is a lot of perspective going on in the movie, and not much of it comes from Clark's point of view. So a lot of the criticism about him seeming above it all, or angry or whatever is just the result of how those other people are seeing him.
It's an interesting take. I would have liked to have seen this movie from Superman's point of view, but it would have been a totally different thing.


The thing with Marvel is...

Okay, even Community (which was largely unrealistic and often just spoof work) had something to connect with. Strong characters, portrayed by a team of incredibly talented actors and Chevy Chase. The writers cared about what they were doing. They didn't just throw crap at the wall when they were spoofing something, they were doing very specific jokes about things that they usually felt very strongly about. Even the Glee episode was full of nuance that most people wouldn't even recognize. They understood that despite the complete lack of reality, they needed to take the work seriously. That is why it worked.

The Marvel movies don't care about character. They don't care that Steve Rogers lost everything he ever knew or loved. He lost every bit of life he ever dreamed about. He lost everything, and wound up transplanted into a world where he genuinely does not belong. Every thought in his head is probably a hate crime by today's standards. They did nothing with that story, which should be *the* story for one of their two central characters, who has appeared in four movies now.

So, if they don't care about character, they need to care about plot, right? Except, they don't. The movies are filled with completely irrational writing, doing everything they can think of simply to get to the next big action sequence, which was obviously thought up before they considered the rest of the story that they would later try to construct around it.

So, we have no character and no plot. Okay, well at least they will shoot it well and make it look pretty, right? Except, no. They don't. They have second-rate directors with second-rate crews, creating shots with no thought behind them. The lighting is bad. The visuals are usually pushed too far, removing any sense of reality. And without some ounce of reality, there is nothing to connect with.

The movies are fun and entertaining, but they are fun and entertaining in the same way that cotton candy is. It's a treat with no substance, which leaves you hungry the second you're done with it.

Some of the movies are entertaining. I don't hate everything about the Marvel universe. The Captain America movies are watchable. Guardians and Ant-Man were solid entertainment (with notably more character work and attention to scene construction). But the only things worth discussing about the Avengers movies were how they compare to the DC movies. One and a half Iron Man movies are forgettable at best. The Thor movies... does anyone go back and watch them? The problem is, unlike Community, I don't get the sense that the writers love these characters or take the work seriously. I get the feeling that they just need to churn out another movie because it's on the schedule.

Say what you will about Man of Steel or Batman v Superman, but you can't deny that thought was put into them. The framing of a scene, the lighting of a scene, how characters would be portrayed... you may not agree with it, but there was obviously some time and effort put into it.

I just don't understand how people could apparently care so little about characters that they have to spend so much time with. I don't need it to be realistic in every sense. I don't need bodies dropping every time a punch is thrown. I just need *something* to sink my teeth into.

I will admit that at this point, my dial is set to "dislike" when it comes to Marvel. It's not impossible to come back from that. Smallville came off of its worst season and went right into its best. Supernatural did the same (season 7 is apparently a really harsh year for TV shows). Once the switch is flipped from "like" to "dislike", it takes work to flip it back. So I can't deny that there is some bias going into my watching Marvel trailers or discussing their movies at this point.

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(747 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The released version is mostly the same. The only changes would be to spelling/grammar type stuff (some that you mentioned and some other stuff), so there's really no need to reread. I welcome any and all reviews though! Even with negatives!

Some of the other writer friends I have are on a real mission to get reviews from the people who read their books. Even friends and family who will read the books and say nice things usually end up not posting reviews on Amazon. I'm not on quite the campaign that some are on, but I definitely agree that any review is helpful. Good or bad, long or short. I doesn't matter, as long as something is up there.


Thanks for the compliment on the cover. I have a brother who is awesome with the art stuff, so he usually does my covers. I get to be a part of the process, which is cool. For this one, I made a mockup of what I was thinking and he based the final version on that. I'm really happy with how it turned out. He also did some art for my Facebook ads, which we also used on the website www.FreedomHate.com.

I remember when I was doing my Buffy season, I made some artwork for episodes. Part of the project was making it seem like a real TV season, so I made TV Guide-style ads and whatnot. So I sympathize with your pain over the artwork. I was working on a series that took place directly after the series ended, so it wasn't as challenging for me to find images that worked. With Sliders, you have some cast members who are difficult to find these days. That would be tricky.

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(747 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Something you don't really think about until you're selling books on Amazon: Amazon.uk reviews don't appear on Amazon.com. for tax reasons or whatever, the sites are kept separate. As a result, reviews don't cross over between sites. This keeps review numbers lower across the sites, which is potentially damaging to sales all around (for smaller authors). Some sites won't let you run promotions through them without a certain number of reviews, so that makes it more annoying.

There are worse problems to have, but it can be frustrating. smile

The Spider-Man situation seems to have had a lot of internal politics working against it as well. I think that was about more than money.

Yes, Warner Bros. needs to learn how to use their money more wisely. They need to improve their business model. In that regard, they are not succeeding.

However, if you want to get into the internal numbers and all of that, we need to know how much money the movie made on tie-ins, etc. We need to know every deal that was struck in regards to the movie.

Since I can't audit the company, I can look at the box office. To me, it looks like the movie made about as much as any movie that kids can't go to see.

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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Once Upon a Time is a stupid show. Not because fairy tales are stupid, but because they completely tossed the concept of the show after season 1 and it has been an embarrassing mess ever since. The point was to contrast between "reality" and fantasy. The second they destroyed the reality of that world, it was pointless. Also, killing Sheriff Graham was stupid, but Jamie Dornan is great on The Fall, so he is better off.

I don't need realism in comic book movies. However, when you take these characters and put them in a real world setting, with flesh and blood actors, things change. If you have a real adult waving a gun around, shooting bullets in random directions like they do in cartoons, it comes across very differently. If you have flesh and blood actors simply behaving like cartoons, why are you spending hundreds of millions of dollars? Flesh and blood is an investment in reality.

I think it is irresponsible to show real people using high powered weapons so recklessly. They are minimizing the seriousness of weapons in the minds of kids. They are turning a real-looking gun (/missile/whatever) fight into a game without consequences, and unlike BvS, they are inviting small kids to watch this.

Things that work in comic books and cartoons don't work in live action. Dropping an anvil on Dean Winchester's head was funny, but it also killed him.

I don't think it needs to be realistic though. They just need to take the writing of it more seriously when dealing with flesh and blood.

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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm not necessarily comparing it to BvS. Different tones, as you say. But Batman was trying to kill Superman. That fact alone changes the dynamic. Martha Kent's life is on the line. That changes the dynamic. It is still life or death, with more people than not opting for death.

I hate the in-group fighting in The Avengers. It just seemed like fan film fluff. But this movie is supposed to be about an actual conflict between these parties. If there is nobody there opting for death (as Batman was, and Lex Luthor was), it seems petty, foolish and incredibly dangerous for them to be fighting like this. Especially in what I assume is a working airport, where their destruction is real.

I know I'm over thinking it, but all of the lesson I've had in regards to use of weapons has taught me to take them pretty seriously. And when it comes to not having to worry about killing someone... There are all kinds of things that I could throw at my brothers when we are having a real disagreement about something, but as an adult, I know how to control myself. Throwing a glass at their face probably isn't going to kill them, but I don't do it.

People have spent years giving MoS crap because of the battle of Metropolis (which again had at least one side opting for death). I think that Civil War could be much worse, even if there aren't mass casualties, because it is looking more and more like a petty, immature squabble. What lesson does that teach?


My main issue with Spider-Bite is that he sounds like he is thirteen (he is actually fifteen in the movie, I've read). Having him in the middle of a fight between adults strikes me as inappropriate. This is why you really never see a very young Robin in the Batman movies. It works in the comic books, but when you actually see it on screen, you're wondering why that kid is being put in danger. Now, if that 15 year old were forced to face a serious threat that was out to endanger lives, it could be seen as heroic. But to have a hero recruit this kid, and another hero attack him... it's weird. He was in high school in other Spider-Man movies, but you never really saw him as a child. He was played by older actors, and usually as someone who was at least 17 or 18.


All of these opinions are based on trailers, which rarely represent the actual movies. So maybe my opinion of the movie itself will be different. Regardless, you're right. It will be beloved by everyone and it will make a trillion-zillion dollars... but it will probably be quickly forgotten.

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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't know.

https://youtu.be/6wlMrOtw4jw

I just have a hard time processing this stuff. They are firing explosives at each other, crashing vehicles, etc... while making friendly chit-chat. I hope that the movie is more even and this is just a case of bad commercial making, but I just don't get it. I don't care if my friend is wearing a bullet proof vest, I'm not going to shoot him. And I'm certainly not going to do it in the middle of an airport (though to be fair, it looks like the least used airport in the history of man).

Also, are we really going to have a group of heroes picking on little Spider-Bite? That seems uncool.

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(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Killing Tara on Sons of Anarchy was a mistake. In one scene, they killed every character that I actually cared about. The last season was just me hoping that everyone would die, and not caring much when they did.

Orphan Black is good, but is still say that Anna Torv from Fringe was the best at playing multiple characters on one show. The nuance was brilliant.

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(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

It's like they wanted to play it as random, but they also didn't. Within the episode, they have Laurel holding her mask and saying "One last time..." which made it quite clear who was going to die.

They had more natural options for the death, bit they backed away because they didn't want to upset fangirls too much, and for some reason they viewed Laurel/Black Canary fans as a vocal minority.

I am all for sudden, tragic death. But it can't feel cheap when it happens.

I still say that we should be asking whether it is successful from a box office perspective, not based on internal numbers at WB.

That said, when did the billion dollar expectation go up to two billion? That was never going to happen.

Once you factor in various product tie-ins, the movie is probably much closer to a billion, if not over a billion. If we are talking about things like the marketing budget, we have to include how much they made from tie-ins because it is part of how it all balances out. But again, that is getting into internal Warner Bros. business, which we couldn't really figure out even if we wanted to. And it is not something that is being done with every movie out there.

That doesn't explain the fascination with including their (rumored) marketing budget in with the movie's budget while failing to include product tie-ins with the profits. They're inflating the cost of the movie while deflating the earnings, just so they can make the story sound more grim.

One thing that I think may have hurt return viewing was the announcement of the extended cut so close to the theatrical release. If I see that, I'm not going to bother going to see it in the theater again. I'm going to save my money and wait for the extended "real" version of the movie. I think the movie will do well when it comes to home video.

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(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

That's how I feel about the Laurel Lance death this year! The writers did it to get attention and get some internet buzz about who was in the grave, but it was really just empty hype which they eventually had to resolve. But the death had nothing to do with story or purpose. It was cheap.

The Jungle Book...

Budget: $175 million (plus marketing)
Total domestic take thus far: $191,477,426   
Total Foreign take thus far: $341,300,000   
Equaling: $532,777,426

Pretty good, right?


Batman v Superman (after it's second week, assuming my numbers are right):

Budget: $250 (plus marketing)
Domestic: $260,408,047
Foreign: $422,500,000
Total: $682,908,047


I'm not going to compare movies. I'm going to compare media reactions... For the Jungle Book, I've seen a lot of stories about its huge success and how much people love the movie. Nothing about not fining an audience. Nothing about how much they need to make in order to make up for the cost of marketing. I could just be missing those articles, but I haven't seen them.

So, why the difference? The Jungle Book is a family friendly movie which people will probably see multiple times. It didn't bring in as much money in terms of product tie-ins (based on what I've seen in stores, it's just not as visible as BvS). So if all things are equal, shouldn't the articles be written about how disappointing this big budget movie with a lot of A-list names behind it is?


I'm fascinated by the media portrayal of Batman v Superman. I can't help it. I have nothing against The Jungle Book. It's doing well. But the overall narrative is that BvS failed to connect to an audience and that it was a failure, despite the fact that it did pretty well at the box office (especially for a movie that kids can't see) and actual audience reactions have been favorable. Where is the media coming from? What is their angle? Is a flop a better story?

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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I was always taught that you don't point a gun at anything that you don't intend to destroy/kill. So the idea of these people using the same weapons against each other that they used to destroy that poor shawarma family's life in The Avengers just strikes me as dangerous, and silly.

These people are using advanced weaponry. Captain America could probably flick someone to death. Tony's suit allows him to do the same. The movie is packed with people who could easily kill someone (like snapping Gwen Stacy's neck while trying to save her). I am not going to go after someone with that sort of weapon unless I intend to destroy them.

This highlights the absurdity of a no-kill policy for superheroes.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

And they serve Sliders, so this thread is on topic!

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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Which means it isn't a Civil War, it is just a cry for group therapy?

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm getting a little uncomfortable with the direction of this conversation.  smile

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(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I saw a commercial for Civil War the other day. In it, Black Widow and Hawkeye are fighting each other. He has her pinned down. And then they start exchanging witty banter about how they're still friends.

Which makes me wonder why they're fighting. You don't seriously fight someone that you are still on good terms with. You don't go to "war" unless you intend to win that war. Assuming that the movie isn't about a mock battle to train new Avenger trainees, how serious is this supposed to be? Initial clips made it out to be pretty serious. People possibly dying, and other people trying to shoot their opponent in the face at close range. The one moment in the trailer that caught my attention was Tony's reaction when Bucky tries to kill him.

But if they cut that tension with characters who aren't really willing to be enemies and who are goofing around while battling each other, what is the point of the movie? Batman was legitimately trying to kill Superman for most of that movie. Their banter only started when they were on the same team.

Will Marvel's need to keep things "fun" prevent this movie from taking itself seriously?


Back to being critical. It feels like wrapping myself in a warm blanket.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I haven't been to any of those places yet. I know they just opened up an Alamo Drafthouse in Richardson (next to that cabin with a basement, hidden deep in the woods... Supernatural joke. Never mind) but I haven't actually gone. I do imagine that it would be distracting, but for the less important mo ies it probably wouldn't matter. Their menu looks interesting anyway.

1,641

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

For what it's worth, I probably won't get to see Civil War in theaters. I usually can't justify spending six to ten dollars on a movie ticket, just for the pleasure of sitting in a room full of annoying teenagers who won't shut off their cell phones or shut their mouths during a movie.

I saw Batman v Superman for free after buying The Flash on blu-ray. I have $10 in free Fandango money set aside for Suicide Squad.

All of this means that there's no need to argue. I can accentuate the positive until that sucker hits home video!

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(90 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I continue to be impressed with Gotham. They do a great job of making this feel like the Gotham City that I grew up with. The city that will need Batman. And Bruce is developing nicely.

I've come to realize that they could easily cross over with The Flash, since Earth-2 is very similar to the world of Gotham.

1,643

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Or maybe you made things better! When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.

1,644

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I liked Guardians of the Galaxy, and Ant-Man was fun. And Winter Soldier... Emily VanCamp is pretty.

1,645

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Supergirl is truly one of the best shows on CBS at the moment. I love the way she brings Cat a latte in every episode, because it makes her seem like someone who isn't afraid to lower herself to a human level, despite being as powerful as she is.

Also, I like when she eats pizza or ice cream and gets really excited about it.

I think Supergirl is pretty.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

That's it! I'm only saying nice things from now on!

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(2,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Hillary hopefully won't get indicted until a new President is in office. Obama would just wave his magic wand and pardon her.

Regardless of whether Bernie supporters will or will not go for Hillary, the Democratic party is weaker than it was four or eight years ago. Obama was more of a pop culture movement than a candidate. People voted for him because he had a cool poster and Oprah liked him. Hillary is too corrupt and too well known to get away with it. She isn't energizing their party at all.

As for Trump... I have no idea who is voting for him or why. I may need to self medicate my way through the next few years if he is elected.

1,648

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The problems with Supergirl is that the writers have no sense of who the character is. They're writing her as Clark, which doesn't work. And they don't know how to introduce drama or tension for the character, so it always seem forced and false. Her sitting at an old news desk, basically asking people to clap is they believe, was ridiculous.

They seem to have to use this government agency, which doesn't fit well into the series. So we have a bunch of military scenes in this cave, and it doesn't seem remotely realistic. Especially putting Martian Manhunter in charge of the DEO again.

They don't know what to do with the supporting characters. Alex is a generic super chick who can do whatever the plot needs that week. None of the characters have strong personalities or purpose.

On The Flash, there is a clear sense of character. Cisco and Barry are both smart, but their dialogue couldn't be swapped without anyone noticing. Iris and Caitlin couldn't be swapped. Harry and Eobard can't even be swapped! dd to that a general sense of purpose in the writing. Episodes where they're just trying to waste time before the next big event stand out because there is a natural flow that is interrupted. Whereas with Supergirl, I get the sense that nobody has a clue what they're doing. The finale pretty much cemented that belief.

Supergirl does feel like a kid's show, because there is no great effort put into making it. The character is being written as a feminist icon, surrounded by feminists, doing feminist things, but it's all just fluff.

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(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I didn't have any unanswered questions, really.

One problem, I think, is that the show was a push and pull between science and faith. Like Battlestar Galactica, the finale and a lot that led up to it had less to do with science and more to do with faith. To me, it makes sense. To the people who want hard science to explain everything, it didn't make sense.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Only we don't get to see Krypto directly. They just show his collar and then have him zoom off to join Superman. But every so often, Kara comes home to find her shoes chewed up, letting her know that he is still out there and thinks she is swell. smile

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(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm still a Lost fan. I rewatch the series every so often and it is still one of the shows that I count among the greats. I liked the whole series. Even the finale.

Can I never agree with anyone about anything?!

With JK Simmons and now Willem Defoe being cast in Justice League, I'm starting to suspect that we might get Spider-Man showing up at the end of this film's trailer too!

Apparently, Defoe will be a good guy. Beyond that, we don't have much info. Any guesses?

The film definitely has a solid cast. I wonder if they're going right for Darkseid or if they're saving that for Justice League 2? They've been hitting all of the super powerful Superman villains so far. I hope we get another Superman stand alone movie, just so we can see him take down someone like Metallo, who isn't necessarily a "destroy the world!" type of villain.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think Legends is fun, in a silly live action Saturday morning cartoon sort of way. They do it better than most of the Marvel movies at least. It still has the flavor of a comic book, if only one of the less serious books. The Flash still feels like one of the more serious, but fantastical books. Arrow... I don't even know what it's supposed to be anymore. It was supposed to be the serious show in the group, but it's not really that anymore.

Gotham is really good though. I'm loving that show.


Can we agree that when people say that Superman should be more fun and hopeful, the Supergirl method is still not the answer? The last couple of episodes were just weird. It's like they didn't know what to do with the story that they set up, so they had an entire episode of zombie people, where nothing really happens.

If that episode had happened on Smallville, you'd have had Kara, Cat and Maxwell in different places. Each would have had some part of the mission to accomplish. Each would have had some amount of danger. Instead, the three of them spent the episode talking while extras roamed aimlessly behind them, doing... stuff.

And the finale was just weak. Attack of the killer hangovers! The battle between four super powerful beings is confined to a dessert in the middle of nowhere, so there is no element of immediate danger to those people whose lives are in danger. They're just squinting and cringing, but that visual just lacked urgency. And the battle between Kara and Non came down to a staring contest.
Meanwhile, Clark still steals the show by being the most awkward elephant in the room ever. We see his feet, and we're told that he's just out of the game. Kara doesn't think twice about him on her tour of goodbyes (which actually kinda makes sense, since he's been a dick to her since she arrived).
Can someone tell me why they couldn't show Clark in the background, fighting Fort Rozz bad guys while Kara battled Non?

He taking the ship into space was poorly handled. Having Alex suddenly know how to fly a kryptonian ship (is she even a normal Earth pilot?) was silly.

As was the "hope" video message from Supergirl to the world. It just made no sense. And this is what you get when you try to write Superman/Supergirl according to the image of what they're supposed to be, rather than with a sense of telling an honest story and thinking about the characters as you would anyone else.

At the very least, they should have shown Ft. Rozz drifting away from Earth, rather than just sitting there in space.

1,654

(747 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The Freedom/Hate release day is here! It seem like it's taken forever to get to this point. I'm experimenting with running ads in a couple of places this time, so we'll see how that turns out.

I now have a about three months to get book 2 ready! This is going to be a long process smile

Yeah, that's what I figured (one response to two separate posts!).

Exactly. A lot of the success had to do with the technology involved. 3D isn't as big as it was when that movie came out. More of the sequel success will revolve around creating a good movie. Was the first one actually good?

That is such a big mistake. They're looking for a new Star Wars. I haven't heard anyone talk about Avatar in years though. I never even bothered to see it, because it looked like some thinly veiled "lesson" movie. Blah blah big oil whatever.

Word of mouth can help, and I don't think that the critics destroyed the movie's chances. But the negative news articles in the months leading up to the release, coupled with the reduced overall audience because the young kids can't go probably drove some numbers down.

These things are usually a machine that runs on excitement. Star Wars is not a great movie and none of the prequels were good. Yet the level of excitement in the press definitely built the audience. I have no idea how the movie turned out because I had to get past my annoyance with the marketing before I could think about seeing it. But the trailer revealed pretty much nothing about the plot, so it isn't like people were excited about that element.

TF, that article misrepresented some of the quotes. Snyder wasn't diminishing Goyer's work. He was talking about the process in developing the BvS idea and opening up that universe. I don't remember where I read the original quote, but it is way out of context there.

I can't judge a film based on how much it cost to make. The audience was there. It made a lot of money. The general audience reaction to it has been good. The studio spent a lot of money, but that is really their problem. We don't know what deals they struck or how they balanced it all out. It really isn't for us to try to guess their happiness with how much return they got on their investment. We can judge the audience side of it, and in audience terms, it doesn't matter if the film's budget was huge or small. The audience went, and I think that anyone expecting it to be the biggest movie success ever was dreaming (and I may be guilty there too). It is the sequel to a movie that did well, bit not great. And it is about the billionth time these characters have been on screen. Add to that the fact that young kids can't go... Why would this movie be the highest grossing movie of all time? To comic book fans, it is huge to see these characters together. To random people who don't care, it might as well be Alien vs Predator.

I still say that the bad publicity pushed a lot of casual viewers away, and that had nothing to do with the quality of the movie. The press was out to kill this movie for a long time. It didn't work entirely, bit they left a mark.

Well, I don't really think "super-hope" is any more alien than being able to fly.  I don't want Clark to be perfect - but I don't want the world's troubles to get to him.  I want him to be able to see passed the bad to see the good.  When he sees someone....Batman, Lex, whoever....I want him to see the best of them.  To know they can be saved.  Because I don't think Clark's power is just catching people when they fall from a building - it's catching them when they lose themselves.

The thing is, we have a lot of Superman movies and TV shows. We have a lot of images of Superman being the ideal person. What we don't have are a lot of people building that character as they would any other character that they were writing. From the ground up, trace that character, how he thinks, how he feels. He is supposed to be very human, on an emotional and mental level. That is the point of the character. Despite being an alien with these amazing powers, he is still one of us. He should be written like a person, not a symbol (because, as I said, we already have that version of him in a ton of other adaptations).
That has always been my problem with Superman. Everyone writing him treated him like an alien. The character identified with kryptonians more than humans. He is above us and never one of us. Clark Kent is an act. And the Superman in Man of Steel, and even in Batman v Superman is the opposite of all of that.

I'm not saying that the movie was perfect. I'm not saying that I wouldn't have liked to see more of Clark's life as Superman. Hell, I want another Superman movie sooner rather than later. Down the line, they could even introduce Supergirl and have Clark showing her this world and how to be the best person that she can be, and it can show how far he has come in life. (or Superboy, if they don't wan to step on too many toes, which doesn't seem to bother them with The Flash, but whatever). But I think that this is a valid version of Clark. I think it's unfair to say that Snyder is just out to make things broody and grim an ugly, or that the violence in Man of Steel goes against the nature of the character. I came across one discussion online that pointed to this clip from the Justice League cartoon:  https://youtu.be/6BJ1-trrgqc

Yeah, the circumstances in that video aren't the same as in MoS. They're an idealized, watered down, children's cartoon version. But some of the shots are almost identical to the Battle of Metropolis.

I know what Superman is supposed to be. I know what people expect from him. It's just that I've been waiting my whole life for someone to take him seriously as a character and I'm glad that someone finally did it. I'd like to get my hands on the actual script and see what's on the page, versus the screen. I don't think that it was distorted. I think it just played with the perception of Superman, seeing him through the eyes of various people throughout the movie.


Regardless of quality, I think the economics would indicate that BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN spent too much money on something that wasn't a universal crowdpleaser, and if you're spending $500 million, you have to make a universal crowdpleaser if you intend to get a decent return on your investment. As it stands, BVS is making strong ticket sales, but it's not getting repeated ticket sales; it's not drawing people back to see it again and again and again in the way the audience wanting to see Han and Chewie in theatres a second and third and fourth time took THE FORCE AWAKENS to two billion.

What is a universal crowdpleaser? If we assume that it is even possible for something like that to exist, it would have to be something so devoid of vision and so lacking in depth that the audience would have no reason to think about the movie at all. What movie is both universally beloved and actually good and meaningful? What book, music or painting could even claim such a thing?

I think that you're forgetting a vital piece of information in regards to ticket sales and repeat ticket sales. Young children will not be seeing Batman v Superman or Suicide Squad. A lot of those kids have seen the Marvel movies. My nephew dressed up as Rocket from Guardians of the Galaxy for Halloween last  year. My niece will not be dressing up like Harley Quinn... *ever*, I hope.
That fact alone drops ticket sales a ton.  Those little kids are the ones who want to see movies over and over and over. And when those kids can't go, it means that many family outings will be redirected toward whatever cartoon is out at the moment.
Is this a bad thing? I don't think so. The family friendly Superman movies and shows are still out there, making money for the studio. These new movies are being aimed at older fans, and apparently toward fans of the comics, since these are not the mainstream versions of the characters that we have seen on the screen before. These are more like something from the comic books.

Break down Batman v Superman in your head and convert the imagery to comic book art. It works perfectly well. Comic book movies aren't usually made with the same mentality as comic books, but these characters have reached a point where that's possible.


I'm all for artistic expression and stylized storytelling that makes Informant happy, but I'm not sure it's worth a half a billion dollars when $54 million seems adequate for making Informant happy via Marvel's Netflix shows.

I'm still not sure if the marketing budget was ever confirmed. Is it just a rumor or do we know that for a fact?

Either way, fair enough. Though the scale of a Superman movie is going to be bigger than Daredevil. I don't want them cheaping out when it comes to a battle with Zod or Doomsday. They really went for it with these films. They have only used the biggest villains so far. Like I said, I'm sure there's a happy middle ground between a bargain basement movie and what they actually spend on these films. smile

1,662

(2,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Interesting that there is nobody jumping to disagree. smile

SMALLVILLE, for all its many, many, many, many, many, many faults, appreciated that the most exciting visual was Tom Welling pulling people out of car wrecks and burning buildings and racing them out of explosions and never had trouble communicating that Clark cared about people.

But did they stop everything in the middle of an episode to have a random sequence of him saving people who had nothing to do with the plot of the episode? The problem with Batman v Superman, in terms of this conversation, is that it isn't a Superman movie. Relatively little time is devoted to Clark's point of view. When we do see him, it's more about how others view him. We see Clark in specific moments, reacting to specific events, but we don't see his day to day life. We don't see him fighting a lesser villain that he doesn't stress out over.

The movie is mostly from Batman's point of view. We also get some POV from normal people looking at Superman. There is some stuff from Clark's point of view, but not a lot. Maybe that is a weakness. Maybe the movie should have been an hour longer, so they could dig deeper into his character. I'd certainly love to see more of that character, so I won't disagree with that. But I don't view him the same way you all seem to, so I guess it doesn't feel like quite as big of a gap to me.

The people who make big studio movies, however, seem to balk at sober fiscal consideration. Let's rent an entire farm! Let's rent out an entire library for one scene with Bruce and Diana! Let's rent an entire art museum for Lex's reception! Let's rent Old Wayne County Building for the Senate! Creating just enough set dressing for the shots we need!? That's for the peasants who work in TV!

I agree, but cautiously. Films do spend way too much money. The Veronica Mars movie was made for about six million dollars. Granted, that is with a lot of people working on it as a labor of love, but it is still an example of a movie that still feels and looks like a complete movie, without going crazy with the budget. Most movies today could be made for much less money, and a lot of TV shows do prove that filming on a shorter schedule doesn't mean that it has to look cheap.

That said, cutting too many corners will make movies look bad. A lot can be covered by adding scenery in the computer, but when you stick to sound stages too much, it does feel claustrophobic. And sticking to basic camera angles because you can't afford to get creative will come with a cost as well. So yes, they should reconsider how they do things, but they shouldn't take it to extremes. Some of Marvel's stuff has taken it too far.


Okay, well this is probably just my interpretation of Superman, but one of his best powers in my opinion is "super-hope" - he doesn't let all the bad stuff bother him.  It doesn't matter how many times Lex does something bad, Superman always believes in him.  So that's why I sorta visualizing him smiling when he's saving people.  I think he's just as interested in making a connection with the person he's saving as he is about saving the next one.  I don't get that vibe from Cavill's Superman.  If you're right, the weight of the world is weighing him down, and he's letting it affect his work.

My biggest problem with Superman has always been that those writing him view him as "Superman". They don't think about his motivation, or his inner monologue, or his emotional state, because he's "Superman". Because of this, he is usually a very flat character. He's an ideal, who recites perfect lines of inspiration because those writing him are basing their work on an image that they've had in their head since they were kids.

To me, "super-hope" is more alien than what we have in BvS. To have him fly around as the perfect person, doing perfect things is not something that I have ever related to. And I don't think it's right for the character. He is supposed to be human in every way except for those added powers. He is the version of us that can make a difference. He should feel the way we feel. He should think the way we think. Those writing him should look at his situation, where he comes from, how he grew up, who he loves, what motivates him, and they should write him just as they would write any normal person... except, he can fly, lift things, use heat vision, etc.

Smallville was a huge step forward. I am thinking of writing up a character breakdown of Clark from the point of view of a writer, so I won't get into a lot of that here. But what I see on the screen looks real to me. For the first time on the big screen, I can understand what is going on in Superman's head. I know why it killed him to kill Zod. I know why he was begging Batman to save Martha. I know why he always sees the flood raging on or the fire burning, more than the people who are thanking him for being a god.


And what's weird is that I don't think it's how he was characterized in the first movie.  I do think there's a lot of hope in Man of Steel (my problem was the ending).  But it does not translate to BvS....which found a way to almost ignore one of the two title characters in two and a half hours.  And what I would've done with the run time would've been to eliminate the entire Lois subplot.  Let Bruce be the only detective, make the hearing about Metropolis...not whatever happened in Africa, and let Lex get caught in the act (which is sorta what happens in the "Communion" deleted scene if I'm guessing correctly where that scene would've fit in).
Throw in a big action piece for Superman and a scene that either explains why Superman always looks so damn sad/angry/upset.


I probably would have opened with a sequence of some big heroic event by Superman. His saving the day and everyone cheering.

But, would that serve the plot of this movie? His arc in this movie is about being chased by the darkness. No matter how much he tries to hold back the rushing waters, people still suffer (the flood seems to be a recurring theme, from the moment he gets into the tub with Lois, causing water to overflow from the tub, to the flood victims, to the Jonathan Kent sequence). He killed Zod, which was fully justified and heroic, but it went against every fiber of his being. All he does is feel for people and he tries to save them, but it never stops. He goes from one disaster to another, and no matter how hard he pushes himself, he is surrounded by death.

He wants to fight the darkness. He wants to put an end to it (Batman is the darkness in this scenario), but nobody else sees it the way he does. People suffering isn't headline news, and his view of the world and the people who live in it are outdated.

To me, this is the same Superman as in Man of Steel. But "coming out" doesn't make his life perfect or even good. He hasn't yet figured out how to make that life work, if there even is such a way.

I think his rebirth could be a doorway to that. Having friends and allies who do what he does could make a big difference. He may not feel so isolated. He may be happier by the time we get to the next big Superman movie (I assume that there will be another Superman movie at some point, just like it was always a safe bet that there would be a Batman movie). But I hope they don't make him happier at the expense of the humanity that this franchise has finally given the character.

I wonder how many people are going to be upset when Suicide Squad isn't an all-out comedy. There are some funny characters in the movie, but I have a hard time imagining most of the characters as being comedic.

I don't view Snyder's style as grim or dour. A little muted, maybe, but only compared to other superhero movies. It looks like a lot of other movies that people wouldn't call grim or dour. It actually feels like a film from the late 80's or early 90's in a way, which is interesting.  The coloring reminds me of movies like Stand By Me or Field of Dreams.

This post is about to get image heavy. Sorry about that.

Compare:
http://cdn.playbuzz.com/cdn/6c1a780d-96b6-4e79-9aba-a8277e48f2ae/9a62f309-422f-43d1-858c-85cbe77981fd.png


With:
http://toyotter.com/wp-content/man-of-steel-43.jpg

or:
http://images2.static-bluray.com/reviews/1433_5.jpg

With:
http://static.srcdn.com/slir/w570-h300-q90-c570:300/wp-content/uploads/Kevin-Costner-as-Jonathan-Kent-in-Man-of-Steel.jpg


For a lot of the Superman scenes in BvS, there is an old school imagery that reminds me of the 30's or 40's. Such as this scene:
http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,h_1080,w_1920/t_mp_quality/af9sw4s0agxov0iigpwj/trailer-breakdown-batman-v-superman-official-trailer-362959.jpg


I don't see it as grim or dark or dour. I just see it as a film, compared to the popcorn movie that people expect something like this to be. Snyder uses light and shadow well. The color balance makes this character seem more real, whereas "traditional" superman always feels like a cartoon:

http://blogs-images.forbes.com/scottmendelson/files/2014/02/superman_returns_22.jpg


You say that Superman is cold and alien, but what is he looking at in this picture?

http://images-cdn.moviepilot.com/images/c_limit,h_1637,w_2460/t_mp_quality/fnzqi32f59gnxocstypl/is-batman-v-superman-pulling-a-deadpool-with-an-r-rated-version-896687.jpg


If I recall correctly, he is looking back at the home that is still burning. He saved the girl, but that doesn't make him happy to see her home burn. That's not cold. That's not alien. How many firefighters do you think would be smiling as they watched that house burn?

I don't think the door is closed on a lighter Superman. What we've seen so far isn't someone who enjoys this life. He is someone who has taken on the task of seeking out the most horrible things he can see on a daily basis, and he has nobody to do it with. He doesn't spend time with people who know what that's like. He is like Batman in a lot of ways, because they're both drowning.

Imagine a police officer in a horrible city, who sees suffering and death on a daily basis, or a soldier in some country where all they do is fight evil that never stops coming at them. How happy would those people be, especially if they were in it alone?

I get the desire to see Superman smile more, or to see more of his happy moments. But we didn't get to see a lot of his personal moments at all in BvS. Maybe we will in the extended version, I don't know. But we didn't see a lot of Bruce Wayne being Bruce Wayne either. People are already complaining about the length of the movie, so what would the reaction be if they added some happy scenes, just for the sake of showing the up side of being Superman in a movie that's mostly about the down side of being Superman? Do we want the scene of him saving a kitten from a tree and handing it to a little kid? Do we want the scene of him saying something inspiring to a teenager who feels isolated? And if we do want those scenes, which scenes do we cut from the movie in order to get them? Because the movie has already been edited down quite a bit.

I do agree that there needs to be some care put into how the films feel and make sure that they don't contradict each other. You can't have a Flash movie that is a completely different world, with outrageous characters and cartoonish sequences. So yeah, they need to make sure that they're on the same page. And there does seem to be effort being put into that, with the Snyders and Johns working with each writer and director. So far, I have no reason to worry about that.

The thing is, I don't think Marvel did that well at all. Thor (the movie) directly contradicts The Avengers (the movie). Black Widow has been passed around the team so much that I'm amazed there isn't more feminist outrage. Especially considering that she not only doesn't get her own movie, but Scarlett Johansson, making her less than every male on the team. Captain America's costumes change from cartoonish in the Avengers movies, to more grounded in the Captain America movies. And yeah, the characters are more or less consistent between each film, but mostly because there isn't much character at all. For most scenes, you could probably swap dialog from one actor to another and nobody would notice. They've retconned the destruction done to New York in The Avengers, making it sound like the Battle of Metropolis, either because The Avengers failed to sell the scope of that event or because they were unwilling to go there, but still wanted to reap the benefits of such an event.
Agents of SHIELD has been held back from telling its stories several times, because it had to set up the next big movie instead, or wait for the next big movie. As a result, most of the series feels like filler and the rest feels like an advertisement for the movies.
Agent Carter avoids the mess by taking place in an entirely different era.

And the Netflix shows, while existing in the same universe, only serve to highlight the weaknesses of the movies. Daredevil's first season put out about 11.5 hours of content on a budget of 56 million dollars and it is a visually more complete production than the movies that cost hundreds of millions of dollars to produce a couple of hours. They throw a ton of money and CG work and A-list actors into those movies, but they don't use those tools properly at all.



I do think that DC could be smarter with their money. I agree that they didn't need an A-list actor to play the part. Jeffrey Morgan probably could have done it as well, for much cheaper (for example). I agree that they could choose their filming locations more wisely... but I disagree about using more stages, Vancouver and Los Angeles. Firstly, because stages and backlots still look horrible. Especially when we have seen them all a hundred times before. But also because Los Angeles and Vancouver are not only too familiar, but for some reason the work that comes out of Los Angeles usually looks a lot cheaper. I don't know why, but if you don't believe me, watch The X-Files switch between Vancouver and Los Angeles.

Vancouver works often enough, but there are other, cheaper options. A lot of the country offers cheaper filming these days. A lot of those states are right to work states, meaning that they don't need to pay union wages for every extra they hire. On top of that, they would benefit from not having the same locations as every other film to ever be produced.

I may be biased, but can someone tell me why The Flash or Cyborg shouldn't be filmed someplace like Dallas? Marvel films a lot in Atlanta, because they offer better incentives than Texas. So I get that part. Either way, I think it'd be cheaper than Los Angeles or probably even Vancouver. I know that we have a lot of very capable people who work here, because I work with them all the time, and just filming in different locations will make those movies feel separate while existing in the same universe. If they film The Flash in the same city that they film The Flash (tv series)... I think that would be a mistake.

I really do hope that we get to see the extra long version of BvS. It bothers me more that the movie had to be shortened so much than it does that they filmed it that way. I want the extended version, and I will pay for it when it comes out on blu-ray. If that version is another two hours long, I will be psyched to spend a day watching it! And if that version costs $10 more than the theatrical version I will grit my teeth and get it (I hate spending money).

I don't really have an opinion on that yet, since we don't know how DC's continuity will work out. There are a number of people who are working on the various DC films (Zack and Deborah Snyder, Geoff Johns, Richard Suckle, Charles Roven, Wesley Coller and I'm sure a lot more people that I don't have the energy to look up on IMDB right now).

At this point, it seem that while Justice League will move the story forward, a lot of the other movies will probably take place before BvS. Wonder Woman will probably take place mostly (if not entirely) during WWI. Cyborg, Aquaman and to a lesser degree, The Flash would be strange movies if they didn't tell origin stories. Since we've already seen footage of them in action in BvS, that means that their stories would probably take place earlier. It's hard to say when Suicide Squad actually takes place, but the Batman movie could very easily show us how Batman got to the point where he is in BvS. What happened to Robin and Batgirl? It would be great if Affleck brought Nightwing into that story and maybe ended it with the introduction of Tim Drake.

If most of those movies stand on their own, how much do they really need to work together? They have a team of people working across different movies, so do they need one person directing the whole thing? I don't know. It seems like the Snyders are overseeing the general direction of the movies, but there could be a hundred other people out there, making sure that Wonder Woman doesn't contradict Aquaman.

Would I say that the Marvel model has worked in this regard? No. I don't think the movies work well as one whole creation. I think there are continuity problems between the movies. I think the characterization between movies has been pretty bad. I think there is a huge disconnect between the films and the TV shows that are supposed to take place in the same universe, so DC's decision to keep them separate (yet within the same multiverse) makes more sense at this point. While I think that Marvel has put out some fun products along the way, I don't think that I would point to them as a model of how to get things done.

I think you're misunderstanding what I'm saying. I don't believe that The Force Awakens or Star Wars were failures. I am saying that there are a ton of headlines about BvS that present it as a failure and claim that the studio is panicking, only to have the articles themselves present no such facts. There is an active push to create failure here, which you don't see with other movies. Whenever the release of the extended version of BvS is mentioned, it is in the context of trying to salvage something from the failure.

I may have missed the Age of Ultron articles when they came out, but I don't recall this level of active hate toward the movie.

I think that BvS will be a worthwhile investment (has the marketing budget been confirmed?). In addition to the merchandising that they will earn a ton of money from, the movie sets up a lot of other movies. Warner Bros. might be wise to get smarter with their spending, but the overall products that they have put out have been such a huge step up from Marvel's movies that I think Marvel might be wise to spend more. Their movies don't look good at all. If they are trying to save money by hiring cheaper directors or cinematographers, it shows. Obviously, it hasn't kept them from making money. However, it might limit the long-term appeal of the movies.

I can't really argue with your opinion, because you're entitled to it. It is a shame that you don't like it. I think there are a lot of layers to the Superman character here. Batman sees him as a threat. Lex sees him as competition. Most of the people see him as a savior or a god. Some of the people see him as evil or a false god. He sees himself as a failure. Lois and Martha see him as a normal guy, trying his best.

For me, all of that is right there on the screen. I love those layers, especially considering that Superman wasn't the central character. Each point of view is valid, which is also remarkable.

I also think that the movie looked great.

As for the media reaction... I think they wanted the Marvel version of this movie. It is obvious from the articles that they think that comic books are supposed to be light and fun children's stories, which we all know isn't exactly true.
They will love Wonder Woman more than the other movies, because there political reasons to love that movie. Suicide Squad came out of nowhere. The media is trying to damage Suicide Squad now, but I don't know how well that will work. I seriously believe that there was nothing that they could do to make the media like this movie. Even if they made it look like a Marvel movie, they would be criticized for ripping off Marvel's style.

I guess it is what it is. You see one thing and I see another. This movie is like that white and gold dress that everyone insisted was black and blue. smile

1,669

(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah, Sleepy Hollow is just an example. I don't think that the people ditching the show now are necessarily doing it just because they killed off Abbie. I think it goes deeper than that.

I don't really watch shows for just one character, and I usually wouldn't give one up just because someone died. I think that a well done death is great material to work with. Lost did it all the time, and it always mattered. Even when it wasn't as much of a shock anymore, it was always sad to see someone die.

I don't think that Laurel should have been killed off on Arrow. I think that in a lot of ways, it was a mistake to kill Tommy. It was great drama, but they keep looking for ways to bring him back into the show and they really can't (though I'd be cool with seeing him as Earth-2's Dark Archer). They weren't done with that character. But on the flip side, they brought back Malcolm when they shouldn't have and he has been sucking life out of the show for years now.
The problem with Arrow isn't that Laurel died, but that so little thought seems to be put into any part of the story anymore. If there isn't much else for people to connect with on the show, I can understand why her death would be the last straw. Especially with the comments made by the producer.

Jadzia Dax was a great character on DS9. The actress was leaving, but asked producers not to kill her off. They did anyway. However, it wasn't a cheap move. It wasn't petty. It was war and to show someone we knew and love die (even in a stupid way) meant something. With that show, there was enough good to balance out the bruised feelings of losing that character.

As for Sliders... I'm still not sure why we all stuck with it for so long. The basic premise was great, but there was so little that lived up to it. I guess we were always holding out hope.

I wrote my review after watching the movie.  I still liked it.  It was still better than I thought.  But I hear certain criticisms, and I have trouble arguing against them.  And I think people are "unfair" to the movie because I think, universally, EVERYONE wanted it to be great.  And when it wasn't what people were expecting, people sorta tear it up.  Again, I think this movie's failures have a ton in common with the failures of Force Awakens.  But for whatever reason, people forgave the Star Wars film.  Oh well.

See, I have to disagree with this. I don't want to make it sound like I don't think any of the criticism isn't legit just because I disagree with that criticism, but I don't think that everyone wanted it to be great. I think that for a long time, leading up to the premiere, there were more negative articles being written about the movie than positive articles. Things that were completely unfounded, just like we are seeing again now, with Suicide Squad. While a large part of the audience may have wanted it to be great, the press surrounding the movie turned bashing it into a pop culture movement before the movie was ever shown to anyone. Today, articles about the success of the movie are still given headlines about the failure of the movie. Articles about the faith that the studio has in Suicide Squad are still given headlines about their lack of faith in the movie.
I think that a lot of the negativity surrounding the movie now is caused by the media, turning it into something that it never was. The critic rating on Rotten Tomatoes is 28% while audience rating has it at %69 (which is actually down from where it was the last time I checked). IMDB has an audience rating of 7.2 stars, with 243,198 viewer ratings. Comicbook.com has it rated at 4.25 stars (out of 5) from 9353 voters, placing it #3 in their overall ratings, after The Dark Knight and Batman Begins, and just before The Dark Knight Rises and Deadpool.

All of this is to say that there is a huge disparity between the media reports surrounding the film and the actual response to the film. The media is not unbiased here and they never have been. So, why? Why do they want to drive the movie's numbers down? What do they gain from that? Is it just that negative headlines will result in more clicks? I don't know. But I don't think that there was much support for the film going in, the same way we see excitement about the next Marvel movie or Star Wars movie (is it a coincidence that they get nothing but positive press, no matter how bad their movies are? I mean, the last Thor movie got a 67% critic rating on Rotten Tomatoes and that was a horrible movie. Age of Ultron got 75%, despite being widely considered to be a huge disappointment, even among Marvel fans)

The comic book audience has reacted to BvS much more positively (though not all praises) than the average viewers, which is probably related to the average audience taking more of a lead from critics.

I can't comment on how fun Star Wars was since the trailers didn't tell me enough about the actual plot to grab my attention and I keep forgetting that it's out there to be watched at some point. I will probably watch it eventually.

That said, I had a great time watching BvS. I don't know what qualifies as "fun". Is it about more jokes? Is it about brighter colors or more explosions? I had a blast watching BvS, because it was a solid movie and had great characters. I know people will disagree with that, but I never found myself thinking "Why would he/she do that?" while watching the movie, which is pretty rare in a superhero movie where they usually don't pay attention to character motivation. I always understood where Superman was coming from and I think that's one of the things that I love so much about this version of the character. He is usually beyond understanding. He is always a perfect boy scout type, with a bland personality and no real emotional core. Very few writers ask themselves how he grew up and what type of person that would make him today. Granted, this version isn't close to the typical image of Superman, but he is exactly what I would expect him to be if I had to sit here and outline the character from scratch, given his history.

The movie doesn't do his point of view justice, because it's not really about him. We get glimpses of who he really is, but most of what we see is through this lens of Bruce Wayne, Lex Luthor, or the general public. When he is hovering over people, it's usually more about the reaction of the people than Superman's point of view. They do see him as some sort of god in a lot of cases, which is why when we see him from their point of view, he is hovering above them and isn't one of them. He saves the kid in Mexico and he becomes lost in a sea of people who are reaching out to him, praising him. It seems like it would be almost as lonely and isolating to be Superman as it was to hide himself for all those years. But that makes sense to me. I understand that more than I would understand hands on his hips and cutting ribbons at the opening of a supermarket.


I like how Batman was used to tell that story of Superman. Lex Luthor was just a maniacal, arrogant, selfish lunatic. Batman was the human perspective. And yeah, while he was putting a lot of his detective skills to use on other people, he really wasn't looking into Superman. He didn't want to. He was angry about what happened in Metropolis and he wanted someone to hate because of it. He spent as much time as possible dehumanizing Superman, so why would he want to find out who Superman was during his off hours? Why would he want to know about Superman's parents? He wouldn't.
Add to that the fact that Bruce has been doing this superhero thing alone for a long time. He's seen bad guys just get crazier and crazier. He's seen good guys go bad. He's seen allies die. He has been trying to stop his farm from flooding for 20 years and nothing he does ever helps. He is broken. He needs Superman, but when he finally gets that help, he isn't able to believe it.

And again, I totally get this. It makes sense. It's where I imagine Batman would be in this universe and his thoughts are what I would expect them to be. The whole reason the Martha thing works is because in that moment, Superman becomes more human. He isn't begging for his life or screaming in pain. He is telling to Batman to go save Martha after he kills Superman. Batman can't dehumanize that (especially since he had that vision of his mother's crypt). Clark seemed to know who Batman was behind the mask, so did he do that on purpose? Did he know that the name Martha would get through the hatred and anger that Batman felt? Hard to say, but I think it's likely.

The cooler way to play Batman would be for him to win the fight and cut Clark's cheek and let that be that. Just to prove that he could and that Superman can bleed. But that would have said less about how desperate Bruce was at this point in his life.


And I do hold Snyder responsible for that based on his similar tone in things like Suckerpunch.  He's probably not, but I imagine Snyder as this gloomy, emo guy directing the world to his downbeat view.

I don't know that it's fair to characterize Snyder as being a gloomy emo guy based in his past work. 300 and Watchmen were made to look like the source material. He honored that well. And while Man of Steel was criticized for being gloomy, I saw it as inspiring and hopeful. I see BvS much the same... a desperate, scared world, looking for something to believe in. Batman unable to have that faith in someone until he sees that man die saving a world that he wasn't even born on. There is a lot of hope that comes out of Superman in these movies, but because it's not all bright colors and too-perfect lighting, people say that they're gloomy. And I don't think it's "emo" to put some thought and consideration into the characters. I'm bored with comic book movies that care more about being "fun" than exploring the depth of these iconic characters. They have great stories, which are rarely acknowledged. People wanted a paint-by-numbers Superman, rather than a movie that was treated like a real film.

I didn't see Sucker Punch, so I can't comment on that one. I can only comment on what I've seen and Snyder seems to be someone who cares about the source material more than he's given credit for. He's someone who put more thought into these characters than most comic book movies ever get. He takes them seriously as characters and doesn't try to create a cartoon in live action, which is exactly where movies like X-Men or most of the Marvel movies go wrong.


I can appreciate the fact that his interpretation of the character may not be for everyone. But that kinda makes his movies even more fitting for the comic book genre, because there is always debate about who writes which characters the best, or who draws them the best. It has driven me insane for many years that so many writers/artists used Christopher Reeve as their template for Superman, when I thought he was so wrong in that role. So I get that there are times when you just don't like how things are being done. I'm just not used to being the one on the side of enjoying and really getting a thrill out of Superman while other people are so down on him. This movie was fun for me, because while I was watching it, I was in it. I wasn't distracted by what I'd do better or whether or not the characters made sense. As someone who loves great characters and who sometimes finds himself checking his email during "exciting" action sequences, I thought the movie was a blast.

1,671

(856 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The Civil War trailer is well made, but ultimately, the movies that those clips are pulled from are still weak (aside from the first Iron Man, which was a fun movie). Someone could probably edit together clips from Modern Family and make it look like an epic buildup to Civil War. I would be very impressed with what they've done with their movie franchise if it were well done. As it is, I think they got ahead of themselves, got in over their heads, and now they're on a treadmill that they don't know how to turn off or slow down.

I'm not familiar with Doctor Strange at all. This movie looks more like a Thor type movie than one of Marvel's better movies.

I'm genuinely not trying to be a downer here. I enjoy some of the Marvel movies and think they're fun to watch. But they lack soul, so it's hard to get excited over them. Captain America is four movies in now, and I still don't feel like the character is established. A lot has happened to him, but they never take the time to show us what any of it means to Steve Rogers. Is there a Steve Rogers? Or did he cease to exist when he became Captain America?

You know I love the character stories. Daredevil is a great show. Even the smaller characters are well formed. The show looks beautiful and rich. This leaves me wondering why Marvel's Netflix series has better production value than it's billion-dollar-earning top shelf products.

Wow. I completely disagree with everything you are all saying about Superman. (go figure)

I don't see him as having dead eyes, or being uncaring. The whole time I was watching him on screen, I was thinking how uncomfortable he was, being called a god every five seconds and having people worship him. On the other hand, he was troubled because those who don't love him hate him and put the blame for a lot of the evil in the world on him. I saw him as very passionate and loving, but conflicted. I totally identified with him in a way that I never could with other versions of Clark in the movies, because they make him too happy and too chipper and completely unlike any person I have ever known in my life.

I get this Clark. I get how he grew up. I get how he feels. I get how he thinks. And all of that was done without them having thought bubbles over his head, telling me everything. I don't see him as alien at all. I don't see him as cold. I see him as someone who is supposed to be the strongest man on the planet, who people keep saying cannot be defeated, and yet he feels like he can't win. He tries to save Lois, but people die and he is blamed. He tries to save the city, but people die and he is blamed. He tries to appear before the committee to answer for his "crimes" and people die and he is blamed. Then there is Batman, who has completely gone off the rails and Clark thinks that he can finally shine a light on this guy who is legitimately crazy (from all appearances), and nobody wants to hear it. At which point should he have been smiling and joking?

The comic books get the benefit of having 80 years in which to show us small moments with Superman. To give us a glimpse here and there, where Superman saves a puppy and gives an inspirational speech to a sad kid. Even a TV show has the ability to show those moments. The movie doesn't. When was there time for Clark to be that Superman in this movie? When people were blaming him for the Battle of Metropolis? When people were blaming him for lives lost in Africa? When he was being blamed for crippling a man? When the people holding him responsible for countless deaths were blown up themselves? If he did smile in the midst of all that, people would have the same reaction that they had at the end of Man of Steel, criticizing him for joking around right after the Capitol Building was blown up!
And do people really want them to add another half hour to the beginning of the movie, just so they can show him being Superman on a normal day? Because people are already saying that the movie was too long.


I actually feel like this movie was treated the same way in the press as Superman was in the movie itself. There are so many worse movies that people are willing to love, but nobody cared about them. Nobody is writing stories about Disney in a panic after Age of Ultron failed to live up to expectations. Nobody is writing headline after headline about how miserable a failure Star Wars was, only to have the article itself reveal that it wasn't that miserable of a failure after all, a few paragraphs down. Nobody is saying that Star Wars has thirty different versions released because the studio is trying desperately to make some amount of profit off of the embarrassing franchise. This movie, like Superman in the movie, was seen as so indestructible that it became popular to try to destroy it. The movie, by all accounts, is doing well. Warner Bros should be happy. Yet we have "Sad Affleck" videos.

We have excitement over the Suicide Squad leading to the studio having more faith in the movie and giving them more money to make it as good as possible, yet all the headlines were about the panic over how much people hated BvS. There was no way that the media was going to represent Batman v Superman in a positive light. This goes back months before its release, so it isn't like I'm criticizing them for not liking it. I don't think it ever mattered whether they liked it or not. I do believe that there was an anti-publicity campaign coming from somewhere, for some reason. I won't say that Disney is behind it, but it feels like it at times.

Actual audience members seem to rate the movie much higher than the critics (which makes sense, since the only Superman that most of the critics know is the 1978 movie version). And comic book fans seem to rate the movie higher than non-comic book fans. These reactions are interesting to me.


I do agree that the reason for this type of movie coming out of DC is the fact that we've already seen these characters so many times before. People keep talking about DC catching up to Marvel, but it is really the other way around. DC is at a place now where, like in the comic books, they're able to tell different types of stories with established characters. Marvel is nowhere near that point. I was going to write a blog entry about this. Maybe I will.

Okay, I'm not going to bother reading what everyone else said just yet, because I just saw the movie and I want to write my initial reaction before I get all influenced by anyone else.

So, what did I think of the movie??? I thought it was awesome. Seriously, I think it was the most comic book-feeling movie I've seen. Obviously, it was more of a Batman movie than a Superman movie, so the tone of the movie makes perfect sense. I've seen complaints that the movie was too long, but that length was necessary, because the movie didn't skimp on any character arcs. Everyone who appeared had a complete arc, and each arc made sense. These arcs are essential for a movie like this, because it could easily become too cartoonish or too absurd, which would void the emotional impact.

Batman --
I doubted Affleck's casting. You know I wasn't a fan. And while I can't say that I think his acting has grown much, I do think that he fit well in this part. The weathered Batman who has been going it alone for so long that he doesn't believe that people can remain good anymore. The one who has seen allies turn evil or die. I want to see more of this Batman, because we usually never get to this point in the movies. Instead of rehashing what we've seen and starting over once again, we're seeing something fresh, but organic (no, this is not an ad for Whole Foods).
Everything about the character's actions made sense to me. I don't think that he was necessarily sane, but since when is Bruce Wayne supposed to be sane?

Superman --
Honestly, I expected the movie to be equal parts Batman and Superman. I quickly realized that this would not be the case and adjusted my expectations accordingly. We don't see Clark Kent as a reporter as much as we see Bruce being a detective. We get glimpses into his world and his mindset. It is enough to inform us of where he is without giving us too much sad Clark. He's conflicted. He's loving. He's scared. He's still a very human character, which is what I love about this depiction of the character. I am okay with the fact that secret identities aren't as bulletproof in these movies as they are in the comic books. I'm okay with seeing Clark sorta clashing with the reporter role, rather than loving it. Perry was asking him to be less than he wants to be, and Clark is tired of being less than his all. And the movie explores the danger in that, which is interesting.

Lois --
I like that Lois is allowed to be an equal in these movies, rather than just a love interest. I really enjoyed seeing her investigating the bullets and the conspiracy against Superman. Obviously, she is not impartial, but what journalist is these days?

Lex --
An interesting take on the character. Or, the character's son... I'm still trying to figure out whether he is *the* Lex Luthor or not. He definitely had his annoying quirks, but he came across as genuinely menacing and creepy when he needed to be.

Diana --
I'm not usually a fan of the character, but her introduction was very strong. It made me eager to see her movie, because it seems like they might get it right. Whereas the first Captain America movie felt like a waste of time because they didn't really take the time to establish the character and make him legendary before throwing him into the present and making him a legend, it seem like Wonder Woman will tell her story as it needs to be told, rather than what the next big movie needs it to be. She is already in the present, so her movie won't need to set that up.

The Flash --
Still not sure I see the point in having a Flash movie right now, but what we saw of him wasn't too bad. Having him appear in Bruce's vision was interesting.

Aquaman/Cyborg --
Their appearances could have been a little more subtle (especially Aquaman's) but I get that they had to clearly introduce the characters in a fast way. So it wasn't bad.


All said, I appreciate that the movie didn't feel like a gimmick. I've seen people complain that Batman and Superman don't fight more than once and it's not the central focus of the movie, but those people must not have read many of the comic books or watched the cartoons. This was always how it was going to play out. They like each other and it would have felt stupid to have them fighting over and over again, just because. One of my biggest praises of this movie is that the fight scenes weren't useless and the bickering wasn't hollow.

Visually, the movie was great. I imagine that people will be upset that it was dark, but it is mostly a Batman movie. A lot of the scenes looked like they could have been ripped from the pages of a comic book, but the movie still felt "real", meaning that it wasn't all perfect lighting and primary colors.

If I had one complaint, it would be that Gotham and Metropolis seem to be very close to each other and I'm not sure that they should be that close. It worked for the movie though.

1,674

(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Sleepy Hollow had a lot of cool characters (horrible writing, but strong cast), but Ichabod and Abbie were the entire premise of the show. They were the Witnesses who were the two people who were born to stand up to apocalyptic forces. Without the Witnesses, there is no plot to the show. They're just spinning Ichabod off.

Now, they're trying to spin it by making it a slayer-like situation where the Witness title passes on to someone else, but that doesn't jive with what the show had established up to this point. It's like Charmed where a 4th sister suddenly appeared so that there could still be three sisters after one died.

1,675

(747 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Big news!!!

Well, big-ish.


Not really.

I'm going to see Batman v Superman tomorrow morning! Finally, I will be able to rejoin the conversations! smile

1,676

(747 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I could never get the hang of using a voice recorder. I usually hate the sound of my own voice, so that makes it hard to get into it.

Usually, my notes are mental. So writing ideas down is how I shift my perspective a bit before writing.

1,677

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Oh, I'm cool with bringing Barry back in the comics. Wally was my Flash, but I realize that Barry was important too.

I just strongly dislike them changing Wally's race along with his story. That isn't just altered history or a reboot, it is a new character being given an old name in order to sell him to the audience. I think that Wally deserved better than to essentially be killed off and then shrugged off as this new person took over his character.

1,678

(27 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't know. I think that people watch shows for a lot of reasons and if a show is that easy to give up for something like this, maybe they've been on their way out for a long time anyway.

When it comes to Sleepy Hollow, I think the show needs to end. Yes, the actress wanted off the show. Yes, there is still Jenny, who I have always liked more as a character anyway. However, the show was derailed in season 2 and it never recovered. The style of the show changed. The mission of the show changed. The feel of the show changed. I stuck with it through all of that, but the fact is that there were two central characters who were both woven into the basic concept of the show. Without either one of them, the show cannot be what it was supposed to be. Now they're proposing this Charmed scenario where the magic can pass on to some long lost relative, but it doesn't work. The season didn't work. The last episode didn't work. Killing Joe didn't work. I think the show needs to end and Nicole Beharie leaving isn't the reason for that, but it's kinda the straw that broke the camel's back.

I have always liked how Sleepy Hollow handled it's characters. It wasn't about being diverse or empowering women or black people. They treated their characters as characters, and that did more good than all of the agenda-driven diversity on TV.

Wally West... I'm more upset about them changing him in the comics than on TV. They really didn't have a choice about his race on the TV show, since Joe and Iris are black (though they could have played Iris as bi-racial, I supposed). That said, if diversity and representation are so important, I have to wonder why it's the redheads who are always tossed in this scenario. Wally West, Jimmy Olsen, Lana Lang... it seem like only the villains and the bullies get to remain redheads. I'm not super serious mad about that, but if the name of the game is diversity, it seems odd. A lot of redheads have been bullied because of their hair (what a stupid sentence to write, but it is true). Yet, when was the last time you saw Jimmy Olsen with red hair in live action? Never.

I don't believe in race swapping, sexuality swapping or gender swapping for the sake of diversity. I think it says more to introduce great new characters than to simply throw "groups" a bone by swapping out an established character with a long history. It's one thing to cast someone because they're the best person to play this role on screen (and again, I like the casting of Joe and Iris on The Flash, so it's fine) but to just decide to make someone a new race out of nowhere is silly.

In one of my book, I use the term "my pet gay" to refer to the untouchable, infallible gay characters who are treated as though they have a mental disability (everyone is super nice and all smiles) because they are gay. The idea that a character should be above being human because they need to represent a certain group in a positive light is stupid.

Basically, I'm against diversity for the sake of preaching. I want good characters who are good characters, and I don't care what color their skin is or who they kiss. I have no white guilt that I need to resolve, so if they want to impress me, it better be in the quality of the work, not the diversity on the screen.


And yes, I hated Charlie! She wasn't a fan-insertion character, she was indulgent fanfic who brought down the other characters around her so that she could appear to be a stronger character than she was. There are so many better female characters on the show, and I'm glad they killed her off. I'm GLAD! Do you hear me?! smile

1,679

(747 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

You have fun conversations with people. smile

1,680

(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think that the criticisms mentioned above are based more on the show than the comics. The writers did have Laurel in a holding pattern for two years, because they wanted to save the Black Canary story for later. As a result, Laurel and Oliver couldn't relate to each other at all. By the time they reached a point where they could, the writers had decided on Felicity as the female lead, so Laurel was once again held down so that she wouldn't overpower Felicity. And by the time they told a story without Felicity in the way, they had already decided to kill Laurel.

The unkept promise is simply the character that they introduced. The producer, Marc Guggenheim, said that their goal was to get Oliver and Laurel to a good place and once that was done, they had nothing left to do with her. So essentially, they had us waiting for this moment for four seasons and then decided that it bored them, so they killed her. The whole arc was useless.