I think comic book movies are catching up to comic books. There are a ton of different branches, with a ton of different styles, some of which go together and some of which don't, which we're supposed to just accept.

DC is doing a Joker movie that doesn't take place in the DCEU, and probably doesn't feature Batman in any major role (though I suppose he could appear in some capacity). They also have TV shows, only some of which exist in the same universe, but all of which may potentially exist in the same multiverse.

Just pretend you're browsing a shelf of graphic novels. Pick and choose as you see fit.

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(743 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Don't know. I've actually been considering taking down my someplacethatiselse.net site lately. I always say that I'm going to do something productive with it, but I'm too busy to actually do anything. Next time it's up for renewal, I may just archive it and let it go. Buffy Season 8 was a huge accomplishment for me. It was a great learning experience and it proved a lot for me, in terms of what I could accomplish, and what I could do on a strict deadline. But it was a stepping stone.


That's just me though.

It's not that I'm incapable of enjoying a Marvel movie, or even one of their big group movies. The problem that I have is that they've never actually put any effort into one of those movies. They coast on the thrill of the big event, but put very little thought or care into producing a good script. It's all about marketing and deadlines, and they hope that the audience will be too distracted by shiny objects to notice that the plots make no sense.

Believe it or not, the reason why I keep watching the Marvel movies is because I want to like them. It's just that they're so, so bad! smile

I'm even more behind than you. I haven't seen Black Panther or Infinity War. I guess if they're ending their deal with Netflix, I'll have to rent them at some point. I just haven't felt a big need to see them yet.

But that ranks them above the last couple of Star Wars movies, which I'm pretty sure I've just given up on. smile

Okay, I watched the Danny episode, and the fight scene that you linked.

The fight scene was cool, just because I like Colleen. The two work well together.

The episode with Danny was still boring. I didn't miss anything from previous episodes, because they are constantly explaining everything about every single scene... slowly... and with more melodrama than a reality show set in high school. I really can't do this show. The cast is okay, but the writing and directing are horrible. And does it have a lower budget than the other Netflix Marvel shows? It looks cheaper.

Sigh. But Iron Fist is coming back soon! It might not be super great, but it should be watchable at least. Plus... Colleen.

Has anyone watched season 2 of Luke Cage? If so, is there anything important that I need to know when going into the next season of Iron Fist? I know some characters are going back and forth between shows, but I just can't watch Luke Cage. I watched the first episode of season 2, and it was like watching a PBS documentary about paint drying. I don't know who writes that show, but it is insanely boring for a superhero series.

One of the things that I liked most about the first Guardians movie was the fact that it didn't really seem like an MCU movie. It just felt like its own thing, and not some commercial for another movie that would come out a couple of years later, like most MCU movies. I guess they can't go back to that, but it'd be nice if Marvel had some movies that weren't so interconnected. I don't mean to say that they can't exist in the same universe, but it feels like all of their movies are smothered by other movies.



On an unrelated note, did anyone watch Cloak and Dagger on Freeform? The series definitely feels more like one of the Netflix shows than it does AoS. Maybe not the same cinematic feel, but similar in terms of story. The politics of the show are about as subtle as a brick to the head, which can be irritating (even I would like to just enjoy a TV show without politics sometimes). There are some things about the state of "young people" TV in general that I don't love, but the show was still pretty watchable. I don't know how well it sticks to the comics, since I'd never heard of these characters before this show (though I do sometimes watch the 80's movie of the same name... good times).

They do name drop Misty from the Netflix shows, and I think they mentioned Stark and Rand as well, but I don't remember the exact quotes.

Maybe I've just heard too many stories about Hollywood, and have heard too many personal stories from victims of child molesters, but if I had a kid (or if it were my nephews or niece) and I saw those jokes and pictures, I would walk away. Not because I believe that Gunn is guilty of any crime, but because I just don't know, and those comments which make light of pedophilia would make me nervous about letting any of the kids in my family work closely with him. Hollywood has a long, long history of not only hiring pedophiles, but of covering up for them (many A-list celebrities still make excuses for Polanski and gave him a standing ovation when he won an Oscar... plus *they gave him an Oscar!*). Even the slightest hint would send me walking in the other direction.

But yeah, it's a personal call. He might have changed, or he might have stopped making those jokes once he was hired by Disney. I hope that he has grown as a person, I really do. If so, I wish him the best of luck. I'm not for any sort of boycott at this point.

It's just a really sensitive subject. We all know that I'm not a super-PC SJW. I make all sorts of inappropriate jokes (mostly around those who know my actual personality and know when I'm joking), but the thought of making a pedophilia joke or associating myself with NAMBLA would never even cross my mind, because the thought disgusts me so much. I don't know what it takes to get to a mental place where it wouldn't be disgusting.


Anyway, I guess it's over with. We'll see which of the actors walk away, if any. And if Disney pushes the third GotG movie back some, just to let it breathe. Though, that might cause their whole schedule to collapse, like dominoes. smile

Here is a question though: if you were the parent of a child actor, would your kid be working on a James Gunn movie?

There is no evidence to suggest that he ever did anything to a kid... And yet, he associated himself with those who do. So, if you're a parent and you see those comments, or the pictures, do you shrug it off and sign on, or do you walk away, just in case?

His comments were bound to become an issue at some point. It was just a matter of time. If it wasn't something political, it would have been some angry fan, upset over their favorite character being killed off, or whatever. The reason for this coming out now was political, sure. However, the political people didn't create the issue. They really only did it because Gunn was unforgiving toward others, and they wanted to turn the tables. The whole point of it was to prove that everyone could be ruined in this way... but the topic of his actions made him an especially easy target.

He'll be fine. He will work again. Just (probably) not for Disney. If he were working on the next Deadpool movie, this probably wouldn't have been an issue for the studio, but the MCU movies make their billions because they market toward kids and families. Having their movie title in the same article as some of those comments could cost them hundreds of millions of dollars, especially if they didn't fire the person who made those comments.


I think this is a situation of "It is what it is", just like the Roseanne thing. Agree or disagree, everyone involved was free to do what they did and there's not much more to say about it. When the Roseanne thing happened, nobody wanted to hear her explanation or her apology. She was cast out, and everyone danced on the grave of her career. James Gunn was one of those people.  Maybe he can use this as another growing opportunity.

I think that's all fair, but I don't think that Disney fired him because of his politics. Ultimately, it might have been people on the right who brought it up and made it an issue, but Gunn was fired because of his own actions. They didn't fabricate the pedophilia comments, or the pictures. Those were choices that he made, and Disney decided that they didn't want their company associated with those things.

He didn't take a hit for his politics, and liberals probably shouldn't adopt him as some sort of martyr for their cause. Not all liberals have pedophilia jokes in their Twitter history, or enjoyed pedophilia themed parties. Regardless of who brought these things into the recent conversation, I think that most liberals probably find them as disgusting as the conservatives do (though I can't claim to understand or speak for their side). I hope that he has changed. I hope that those things don't reflect who he is on the inside, and I pray that they don't reflect anything that he might have actually done to kids. However, if my nine-year-old nephew needs to learn that what you say and do on the internet will follow you for life, a 40+ year old man really has no choice but to accept the consequences of his actions, and own those consequences. Disney's actions have nothing to do with Gunn's politics.

James Gunn.


I'm not putting this in the political thread because it's not really political. I know those who brought it to light are political, so I'll address that, but the topic itself isn't political, so let's not pretend that it is. I am aware of how this issue became an issue but I honestly couldn't tell you who brought it up though. I know that they're reported as conservatives, but I don't know/remember who did it and therefore, I don't know if I agree with them or not.

My reaction to the James Gunn story has come in phases (much like the MCU!), so I'll explain those phases.


Phase One - I heard rumblings of a "conservative group" bringing up the James Gunn tweets and demanding that action be taken against him. At this point, I hadn't seen the tweets. I chuckled at the fact that James Gunn was now being forced to live by the standards that he set for others, but I didn't think much of the issue overall. I saw it as a way for whoever did this to highlight the hypocrisy of the liberal media, so the outrage over Gunn's firing was mildly amusing to me, but I had more important things to worry about, so I didn't really care one way or the other. If Roseanne got fired for being Roseanne, James Gunn can get fired for being James Gunn. I didn't care either way.


Phase Two - I saw the tweets. I found them repulsive. I understood why Disney fired him, but what I didn't understand was why they hired him in the first place. Surely, they must have looked over his social media history before they hired him, right? Again, I don't care that they fired him, because it's Disney and they have very strict guidelines for the people who work for them (I was actually watching a YouTube video about that subject just before the Gunn news broke, so it was fresh in my mind). What I didn't (and still don't) get was why they hired him at all. He clearly does not represent the image that Disney strives for.
There are reports of pedophiles working for Disney, and of course the whole Powder issue, but overall, they seem to at least try to look clean and family friendly.

It's important to note that while I understand why *Disney* fired him, I also wasn't interested in seeing Gunn blacklisted, or his career destroyed. Tweets aren't crimes. I am a strong supporter of free speech, even when it turns my stomach. Unless there is some evidence of him actually molesting kids, I don't need to see any pain inflicted. I just understood why Disney fired him, and I really don't know if I'd be interested in seeing his movies. I didn't even really like Guardians 2, so it's not like I was a huge fan to begin with. Honestly, seeing how many times he joked about pedophilia made me uneasy, so it was going to be a while before I sit down to watch Guardians of the Galaxy again either way. 

Still, the point of making this issue an issue was to show how differently a self-proclaimed liberal is treated, compared to a "conservative" (and I use quotes because Roseanne is not a conservative. That's more of a press label, because she supports Trump). So, the point was well made and kinda funny in an "I'll forget about this in five minutes" kind of way.

Now, the political joke is over, and we're still talking about Gunn, so I guess the issue is still an issue, regardless of where it comes from.

At this point, what was done was done. It all seemed to even out well enough, though I thought it was a mistake for the cast to tie their wagon to Gunn, because there's no way for them to know where the story was going. He was fired for good reason, and that should have been the end of it. He can go work on another movie, and they can go back to doing what they do.


Phase Three - The pictures. James Gunn attending what appears to be a "To Catch a Predator" themed party, where guests dressed as pedophiles and their child victims. This isn't just a random joke, or a poor decision made in the three seconds that it took to write a tweet. This was an organized event, with well considered themes and costumes. At the very least, it makes light of pedophilia, and at worst it shows a weird acceptance of it. Even the better of these two options is disgusting. This is a topic of entertainment not only for Gunn himself, but apparently for his circle of friends. And as I saw these pictures just after watching a documentary called "An Open Secret" about the issue of pedophilia in Hollywood, it didn't take much for me to move to the side of the people who think that Gunn needs to just go away. People need to stop defending him as though his actions are perfectly normal. People need to stop acting like Disney is out of line by firing him, or like this is all some big political conspiracy. He made those comments. He took those pictures. He is the one that is responsible for them, no matter who raised the topic.

Is he a criminal? I don't see evidence that he actually molested any kids, so I am not calling for him to go to prison or anything like that. He had every right to make these comments and go to that party. I have every right to find him disgusting because of it. Disney has every right to decide that he no longer fits their image. People have a right to defend him if they want. I won't. Whatever happens to his career now is his own doing. I feel no sympathy for him. It doesn't take a genius to know that pedophilia jokes won't go over well. It just takes an average amount of human decency.


The question is, with the cast supporting him (at least when they signed that letter) and making a fuss over his being fired, is there a point to making another Guardians movie? If they move forward without him, some cast members may not return and some of the audience might not support the movie. If they move forward with him, another part of the audience will stay away.

Would it be smarter to just use those characters in other movies, at least for a while?

The good news is that I don't think that the action hero version of Picard is really an option at this point. Patrick Stewart is 78 years old now. Honestly, we'll be lucky if the Picard project ever makes it to screen.

I didn't really have a problem with Picard in the movies (not counting Nemesis, because I never count Nemesis). In Generations, they gave Picard a pretty compelling character arc, coming to terms with the fact that his family line (which he'd assumed would carry on through his brother's family) would come to an end with him. He's older and isn't likely to have a family of his own, and the reality of time and legacy really hit him. That's complimented by the nexus story, in which time and space mean nothing, but ultimately lose their value.

I think I like Generations more than most people do.


Yeah, First Contact was Die Hard in space. Picard was presented as an action hero, unlike we'd really seen him before (though to be fair, we saw some toned down TV-budget versions of this sort of thing in the past). However, I think it still managed to capture the PTSD element, and how Picard still has to deal with the fact that he was violated in a very brutal way. We also got some lighter elements mixed in there, with the other characters from the series.

Insurrection was probably the most like the TNG series out of all of the movies. It's a little funny that so many people dislike the movie. It could have provided Picard with the chance to follow up on his arc from Generations. If he'd settled down with Anij, he could have had the future that seemed so beyond his grasp in Generations. It would have proven that whatever you believe the future is, it isn't.

But Nemesis ruined that. Nemesis ruined EVERYTHING!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111


Oh well. I guess we'll see how this all turns out. I wonder if the other TNG cast members are upset about him being invited back without them.

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(2,613 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't have much to add to what Slider_Quinn21 said. It's true, of course. And a lot of people don't understand politics enough to know that what you're told isn't always the truth. There is a lot of flashy, razzle-dazzle type stuff going on that different people use to get their followers riled up, and you usually have to sort through the facts and look at the raw data before you can get an idea of what the truth is. But most people don't do that, so they're stuck in this sort of vague area that seems really scary and dramatic because fear and drama get politicans more votes, gets TV networks more viewers, gets articles more clicks, etc.

I think a large number of people are getting tired of the hatred. I don't know if it's a majority, but it's a significant number. Maybe there will be a place for rational conversation someday, even between people who disagree.

Yeah, all of the Trek shows air reruns around me. I don't usually watch them (because I stream them when I want to watch), but they are still making Paramount some amount of money.

I think DS9 has probably built more of a fanbase since it aired than B5 has. Outside of geeky circles (and older ones at that), I don't really hear much about B5. However, I still see DS9 talked about and it seems like it's aged pretty well. People usually talk about it as the superior Trek, which is fun for all of us who remember DS9 as the forgotten Trek series that nobody cared about back in the day. smile

I think that DS9 and Voyager would be better long term investments for them, since they have a fan base that is still strong. But they'd probably require more work than Charmed or McGyver because of the visuals.

HD or no HD, DS9 still holds up pretty well. Their space battles were impressive. I'm watching B5 for the first time now, and it is visually very dated.

Oddly enough, my brother and I were discussing the Jonathan Kent death scene just a few days ago. We came to the conclusion that it was probably one of the more important scenes for Clark's overall arc, to get him from the life he needed to have as a child (protected, safe, secret) to the life that he has an adult (the hero).

It's a really layered scene, that people don't think about enough.

Jonathan and Martha needed to tell Clark to keep his abilities a secret growing up. They were his parents, and it was their job to protect him above all else. They were terrified of what would happen to him if anyone ever discovered his secret. So they hammered it into his head, over and over again, not to use his abilities.

As we see with the bus crash, that lesson goes against what his parents taught him about being a good person. It's not who they are, and it's not who he is. But they're parents and they're scared. Jonathan's reaction to Clark saving the bus was understandable, because at the moment when Jonathan is having that doubt, the only threat is to Clark, his son. Even Jonathan doesn't believe that Clark should have done nothing, but he's not sure what he should have done, because people saw it. Ultimately, saving the bus is what exposed Clark as an adult.


So, the tornado scene. Clark wants desperately to fight the lessons that he's been taught for as long as he could remember, but he's terrified. I've experienced moments of danger (when younger) that happened in such a way where my body and mind were at odds. I couldn't think or process, so I fell back on what I knew. When Clark does that, he falls back to doing what his father tells him to do (despite having been arguing with his father about this very subject only minutes earlier). Clark is still young, and scared, and his instinct isn't lined up with his teachings.

In that moment, Clark does what his father tells him to do. He plays it safe. He ignores his instinct and everything that he is as a person, and he follows orders. Because he does this, he loses his father. He loses everything that he had been taught, because it didn't matter. He played it safe, and he still lost. He let fear keep him from action that he knew was right, and his father died because of it.

But the scene is more than that. Because despite what Jonathan Kent taught his son out of fear of losing his son, Jonathan sacrificed himself for someone else. His actions and his words didn't line up. Jonathan, the man, was a hero. Jonathan, the father, was just scared. Every day. For decades.


The scream that Clark lets out when Jonathan dies mimics the scream that he lets out when he kills Zod. It's the loss of something vital to the core of who he is. Action or inaction, it didn't matter. He still lost. But without Jonathan's death teaching Clark that lesson, i'm not sure that he could become the hero that he was meant to be. Sure, Clark wanted to do something good, but that was a childish desire to act for his own sake. It was rebellion. At that point, he wasn't capable of being what he needed to become in order to use his powers responsibly and safely.



The scene can probably be discussed and perceived in different ways, if we really wanted to get into it. But I don't think that it was a scene that was ill-conceived or careless. I don't think that it was a scene that could easily be removed from the movie without removing something vital to the arc of Clark's character, as well as Jonathan's. It's easy to say that the scene could just be removed and that it was a bad scene, because most people don't need to character arc at all. A lot of people would be happy with the basic, cotton-candy version of the Superman origin that we've seen a hundred times before. But for this movie, and this Clark's development as a character, I think that losing that scene would do a lot of damage.

The MCU movies have done a good job of marketing to everyone, while not really targeting any one specific audience. They're very accessible to non-comic book fans in the same way that cartoon series are, but they lose many of the layers that comic books build into the worlds and characters. Again, this is like we'd see in a cartoon.

And that's a very valid way to approach it. It has made it seem like everyone loves comic book stories, even though that's not really the case. The "cool kids" are into these movies now, but only as long as they don't get too geeky. The mountain went to Muhammed.

The problem is, Superman and Batman have been telling widely accessible stories on screen for 70+ years. If they release another scene of Clark hopping around in a corn field, the audience will scream. Yet at the same time, that's what the wider audience expects.

With Batman and Superman (and to a lesser extent the Flash), there isn't much chance of pleasing the wide, broad audience in the same way that Marvel does. Some people want a shot-for-shot remake of the Donner movie. Some want to see obscure comic arcs on screen. Most wouldn't recognize the comic book characters and want the cartoon characters. Some loved Bale, while others want Keaton.

DC has a ton of baggage that Marvel doesn't. Marvel can play it safe, but DC needs to change things up. Wonder Woman probably performed the best because most people know the character while not really having any expectations of the movie.

All I know is that when I get into conversations about the DC movies, people usually hate the movies because "that's not my Superman." He emotes, so he's too emo. He has doubts, so he's cold. He isn't Reeves, because Reeves would never kill Zod (an actual conversation I had, despite my linking to the scene where he kills Zod in Superman II)

It's probably more fair to compare DC movies to Godzilla or Dracula at this point. Or James Bond. Especially with Superman and Batman.

I obviously disagree, but I won't rehash the entire conversation that we've had a million times. I think the only thing plaguing the DC movies is that Disney made the Marvel movies to kinda-sorta appeal to everyone in some way, to make as much money as they can (it's the Disney way), while DC played to a narrower audience. Yet they're being compared as the same thing, because they're both "comic book" franchises.

I don't view the DC movies through the lens of how it compares to Marvel or how Marvel approached their movies. There are a million ways in which we can't compare the two franchises.

I think Warner Bros was probably looking at the MCU more than the people actually making the DC movies were. The problem is that there seems to be a constant tug of war within Warner. They're not battling Marvel, they're battling themselves. Justice League under performed because someone at Warner Bros didn't get it, and panicked. This isn't unique to comic book movies. Most horror movies today aren't remotely scary, because studios believe that we need to see big spectacles in order to be scared. The opposite is actually true.

Hollywood isn't about art or artists. Ultimately, this is why so many (the majority, really) of their movies fail to connect with the audience in any significant way. Even when we see a movie that we like, we usually forget about it an hour later.



As for Snyder, I think there are a lot of people who think that they know more than they do, because of all of the things that they've read in clearly-biased articles. I do think that there was probably tension between Snyder and the studio, for the reasons that I gave above, but actual news articles have no business taking their own opinions and internet gossip, and publishing it as news.

If Snyder was in a constant battle with the studio to make the movie that he wanted to make, there is a very, very good chance that he just stopped caring about that fight once his daughter died. That fight with the studio isn't uncommon. Every director probably does it. We don't know what that struggle looked like with Justice League, and it's unfair to speculate about something that we don't really know.

If Snyder was fired before his daughter died, I think we would have known about it before his daughter died (unless the studio somehow knew that they'd have this huge excuse to use). If he was fired after his daughter died, it was most likely because he just didn't care enough to fight them anymore.

I picture it as the winding down of someone who led this amazing, action-packed sort of life. I could see Picard coming closer to the end of his life, with no ship and all of his friends still out there doing what they do. Maybe Q comes to visit Picard and really sees the sadness and beauty of the human experience as he watches his closest friend move toward death.

But that sounds more like a two man play than it does a Star Trek series, so it probably isn't that.


New pitch: Picard and Q start a YouTube channel where they review movies.

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/star-t … 1202895410

At least they're finally moving forward again. However, Discovery has been a huge disappointment and I'm not sure that these people know how to tell a thoughtful story.


I want it to be good though. However, the rest of the cast probably won't appear. How would they handle Worf after the mess they've made out of the Klingons?

The "Unite the Seven" thing... I feel like that was meant to be part of a different plan at the time, but Warner Bros keeps meddling and throwing off the plan, so now it means Aquaman. Which is fine. I don't dislike the Warner/DC movies. I just think that there are people at Warner who see something like Rotten Tomatoes and panic, feeling like they need to change something, when they really just need to let the plan play out the way it was intended. They don't get that comic book fans will usually be divided one way or the other, and the more memorable comic book stories are the ones that fans tend to argue about the most.

It's frustrating to me, even just from a writing perspective. It stresses me out to have a story changed midway through its release (Snyder had an arc planned and it was approved... and then altered)

It hasn't been a complete disaster, but Warner Bros needs to back off and let the DC movie people run themselves. Create a separate studio for them or something.


The Batman movie -
I guess it is what it is. It feels chaotic and troubled to people because we honestly have no idea what's going on behind the scenes or what the product is supposed to look like. Whereas Marvel tells us what their plan is ten years in advance and rarely changes a release date, the DC movies seem to depend on how they develop. It's probably the right way to go about it, but it means that movies feel like they're dangling out in limbo much more than they actually are.



I am looking forward to Aquaman too, but I don't have super high hopes. The character has never been the best DC character, so if they can make a good movie, that will be awesome. However, it's hard to really get into the world of Aquaman from the trailer alone, because it's so alien and so out of context.
What I do know is that a lot of people are still complaining about Jason Momoa playing the part, and how they've changed the style of the character. I really don't care about that.


Shazam's trailer looked a lot better than I expected, actually. It looks fun, in a "Big" sort of way, without looking like a total ripoff. The characters seem to work well. The costume looks pretty good. We didn't get much in regards to the actual plot/threat, but what we did see was pretty nice.




Changing topics back to an old classic...


With updates on all of the DC movies, the press has been talking about the franchise again. What I find annoying is how they're retconning history in ways that the press always seems to do with everything. They just drop little comments in matter-of-fact ways, as though they're common facts that we all know, and then base their whole opinion around those "facts" which aren't really facts.

Two examples that you can keep your eyes peeled for:

1. I saw one article casually refer to Justice League as an "even bigger bomb than Suicide Squad", followed by some comment like "Yeesh" or something like that.

Except, Suicide Squad wasn't a bomb. At all. It actually performed better than most people (or, at least myself) expected. To compare, Guardians of the Galaxy had a similar budget and came out around the same time. Guardians of the Galaxy (a much more kid-friendly movie with talking animals, etc) made  $333,176,600    in the US and $440,152,029 internationally. It totaled  $773,328,629, which is indeed more than Suicide Squad made.

Suicide Squad made $325,100,054 in the US, and  $421,746,840 internationally. It totaled $746,846,894.

All things considered (I don't think many parents took their kids to see Suicide Squad. Even talking about the title of the movie with my nephews made me feel like I needed to have a "Thirteen Reasons Why" type disclaimer before our chat), Suicide Squad is pretty well domestically. Internationally, that number is more impressive than Guardians though. Suicide Squad wasn't released in one of the biggest markets: China.

In China, Guardians made $86,346,366. Had Suicide Squad competed in that market, their overall profits would most likely be higher than Guardians.

I'm not putting the movies in competition with each other. Obviously, they are for different audiences. What I'm saying is, Suicide Squad was not a bomb by any measure. Justice League under-performed. It wasn't totally surprising with the chaos behind the scenes, the press attacking the movie before it even finished production and the studio apparently having no idea what to do with their properties. But still, I wouldn't call it a "bomb". A bomb doesn't make hundred of millions of dollars in profits. A bomb loses money.



2. I've noticed that most articles have stopped mentioning why Zack Snyder left Justice League. A lot of articles simply say that Snyder left the movie. A lot say that the studio replaced Snyder. Most articles make it sound like Snyder was fired because the studio didn't like him. It's become pretty rare to see an article acknowledge that Snyder left because of a seriously horrible tragedy within his family. This is just dishonest reporting, and it's a symptom of a much larger problem with big media outlets.



The one upside to all of this is that we probably won't see the Carrie Kelly Robin on screen. I'm not a fan, and we haven't even gotten a proper normal Robin on screen yet. I see no reason to skip over Dick, Jason, Tim and Damian.

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(21 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Can we not make this another political thread?

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(31 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm happy for the fans to get closure, but I have to say that I'm not torn up over the show being canceled. They kept hitting historical moments, but it all seemed like shallow, uninteresting takes on history. Sometimes entirely fabricated. As a result, the thrust of the series seemed shallow and uninteresting to me.


I'd love to see a time travel show that really dug into history and explored the different layers and complexities involved.

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(35 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I hope Sabrina is good. Riverdale has turned into a mess, so it'd be nice to have a good show to replace it with. smile

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(21 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

This was posted on the GoFundMe page 8 days ago:

The past month has been busy for Indigo. She hasn’t had any strokes or seizures, which is such a blessing. She spends every weekday in therapy, going back and forth between speech, physical and occupational therapies. She is also seeing a therapist to help manage her PTSD, which was caused by the confusion and terror she experienced while hospitalized before and after her brain surgery.

While she is making progress, her speech pathologist has concluded that Indigo developed a speech processing disorder from the strokes. On her good days, she sounds almost as clear as she did before her disease manifested. On her bad days, she can’t put sentences together or pronounce consonant sounds.

Physically, she is getting strong again after having to spend a month on bedrest. She falls more often than she used to because she is still rebuilding her coordination.

Megan and Rob’s hospital bills are starting to come in, and they are worrisomely high already. The total hospital bill for this first surgery is $270,000. Their insurance is refusing to pay for her daily hospital stay and a doctor that they consider to be “out of network.” So far, Megan and Rob owe the hospital $180,000 out of their own money. They have to be in good standing with the medical center before the doctors will schedule Indigo’s second brain surgery.

So many of you have already helped so much. We appreciate all of you. Please share Indigo’s story, and please keep sending her love and prayers.


#indigostrong


It sounds like she is recovering, but it's a long, hard road. When my father had a severe stroke, we were fortunate to be working with a good hospital, which helped us to navigate all of the billing issues that popped up. He also had pretty good insurance when it first happened, so that helped. It's incredibly daunting, and to have it happen to a kid on top of all of that is horrible.

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In 2013, I was working on Freedom/Hate, which was a whole future universe, with an alternate history that was filled with complicated characters and in-world politics. That series was not following the path that I originally planned, and was becoming something new that I was trying very hard to keep a handle on. At the same time, I was working on writing another book (which I still haven't released, but hope to soon, when I have time to edit it). So quite simply, I had to put my own original work ahead of group fanfic. As it was, my head was about to explode.


But another reason is, The X-Files. We all have ideas for how Sliders should be remade at some point, and we could all probably create a version of the show that would be interesting in our own ways. However, a series needs one driving voice and a bunch of other people falling in line to make that voice as good as it can be. I'm not sure that all of our ideas worked well together as one single voice. I really don't remember much about the ideas that I had for Sliders, but if they were political, I can see frustration being an issue for everyone involved.

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That's fair enough. But I wonder what your wife would think of the show upon a second viewing (which may never happen). When you finish the series and then go back to the plane crash and the smoke monster, it all makes a different type of sense. And when you see how the weird island stuff relates to the character stuff, it comes together a bit more (at least for me).

It is interesting to hear how the show plays for someone who isn't into sci-fi/fantasy and who isn't caught up in the pop culture frenzy that surrounded the show (and wanted it to be something that it was never going to be). She has no choice but to let it be what it is, without writing online messages to the creators to try and change the show. That is cool. It is a more pure form of viewing.

I'm currently watching Rectify on Netflix (assuming that I keep Netflix. I have to look into this kiddie porn story a bit more). I knew little about tye show going in. No cast interviews or spoilers. No writer or cast tweets. It just is what it is. Like reading a book that's already been written and published and you just have to take it for what it is, rather than what you want it to be. It's cool.

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Tell you what... I'll give you tips on building the kid cages and you can tell me the best method of ripping an unborn baby's limbs off and sucking it's brain out. Because that's the side you're on. Literally worse than Hitler, by the way. Just sayin'.

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I don't think we need disclaimers to say that the views expressed by us represent our own views. That's how the brain generally works. smile


Okay, here's a new one for all of you liberal types. What do you do when a Mexican presidential candidate declares it a human right to cross into the US and claim it for their home? This is the case with Andrés Manuel López Obrador, who declared that he will make this a priority once he wins (if he wins). http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/eleccione … -migrantes

So we have a potential leader of a neighboring country openly stating that they will not respect our border (which they never really have) and will not only encourage, but aid those who want to violate our border.


This isn't an illegal immigration question. This is a diplomatic question. How do we address a Mexican government that openly defies our border and our nation? It seems far fetched (and kinda adorable in a way) for this to become an actual issue but we've had issues with Mexico for a long time now, with their helicopters firing our Border Patrol within our border ( http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/06/27 … er-agents/ ), or their military crossing our border and drawing weapons on our Border Patrol ( http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-bor … story.html ) so let's say that things escalate to the point where their leader declares that they will openly defy our border as policy.

What is your response to that? Is there a difference between Americans fighting for open borders, and other nations pushing at our borders? Or do you view those as the same thing?

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Before I get into replies, I will say that rather than one big issue, this conversation really breaks down into different issues:

1. What do we do about the flow of illegal immigrants that continue to come into our country?

2. What do we do about those illegal immigrants who are already here?

3. What do we do about the children who had no say in the matter?

4. What do we do about the people who had no choice but to be brought here illegally, but have grown up here and know no other life?

All valid questions. Hopefully we can work on resolving these issues as a nation once the fake outrage over the photogenic children has passed.


Grizzlor:

The entire Trump/Miller/Kelly/Sessions approach is heavy handed and flat out un-American verging on heinous.

In what way?

Was it also heinous when Obama did it?

If so, why didn't you care then?



1.  The current system has been broken for decades.  Trump administration is now deporting people who have been here for decades.  Some are even DOCTORS.  These are people who are contributing to society, but have no good way to rectify their situation.  Right wing Republicans have refused EVERY attempt at remedies for the immigration system, because solving this problem would take away their dog whistle.

Even when the the Dreamer option was on the table, many of these people chose to remain undocumented. So, I don't necessarily buy the idea that they're trapped, with no good way to remedy the situation.

However, this is one of the problems that I listed above, and it needs to be addressed. I was never moved to another country as a child, but I did move from one state/culture to another state/culture and I definitely have no desire to be shipped back to my native state. Fine place to visit, but... no.

We do need a solution to this, but I honestly don't think that the politicians want to "solve" this issue any more than they want to "solve" healthcare or gun violence. These issues are their bread and butter, so it works out better for them if people are mad and fighting with each other.

What solution can there be? I don't know. It probably wouldn't work out 100% for either side. Even if we gave those people who really did grow up here (not those who made the trip on their own as teenagers) a chance to stay and become citizens, there would be a cost to them. The parents/relatives who brought them here illegally would have to face the consequences of their actions, and that would probably mean being shipped back to their native country. We would also have to define a clear cutoff point for this solution, because we'd be inviting more illegal aliens to try the same thing forever if we didn't.

But yeah. It's a discussion that needs to be had, and it needs to be had rationally.


2.  Family separation is 100% the cause of Trump's team's zero tolerance policy, begun only months ago.  Rather than simply deport the families, they have sought to PUNISH them.  Repeat, PUNISH them.  Again, this is draconian and unnecessary.

You're attributing a motive here, and you need to understand that the image that you're paining comes from your own head and not reality. Donald Trump isn't sitting in the Oval Office, laughing maniacally and getting off to the thought of suffering children. Real life is really never that cartoonish... or... it's rarely that cartoonish.

The fact is, if an American citizen committed a federal crime and was arrested, they would be separated from their children. We don't lock children up for the crimes of their parents. However, in the case of illegal immigrants, that situation is made more difficult by the fact that the kids coming over have nowhere to go once their parents are arrested.

Trump signed an executive order, to end the separation of families. He did exactly what was being asked of him. Yet this action is still being waved around as proof of how evil he is. This is an example of how fake the outrage really is. If Obama put an end to abortion when he was President, pro-lifers would have been dancing in the streets. That's normally what happens when you achieve a goal that you really care about. But the little kids were never the goal here, so there is no celebration.


But you know, gotta keep the base of racist crazies happy.


You have the potential to be better than this comment.



3.  The incarceration is seemingly undefined, as there is a major lack of immigration attorneys and judges.  Another remedy that Trump could fix, but HIRING more of them.  He has steadfastly refused.


One of the many problems that have to be addressed in a system that no politician has felt a need to fix for decades.


And so here we are, a President who despises poor immigrants,


(the ones that he doesn't marry)


the ones who come and do work we don't want to do.


Wait. Americans don't want to be doctors?

The fact is, that the "they do the work that we don't want to do" line is a slogan, not a fact. What it really translates into is that the people who hire them want to hire people who will work for less than minimum wage, who won't expect benefits, and who will be less likely to report abusive working environments.

This is relevant to the conversation that we're having about the migrant children, because some of the people doing the work that we don't want to do are actually children, who are brought here and forced into labor by people who pretend to be their loving parents.

http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/20 … ckers.html

And the "work that we don't want to do" issue also includes handing our children over to child molesters.



The one's who often flee peril, only to find more of it here.

The world sucks. In Canada or the UK, you can be jailed and fined for saying the wrong thing, all because they don't actually have freedom of speech. In many cases, we do what we can to help the people from places where they face true systemic oppression and violence. However, even in those cases, there is a proper channel to go through.

He wants merit based...  Okay, so on the application for visa, should we simply be asking how good you are at cleaning plates, picking apples, mowing lawns, or painting houses?

It's a valid question, to ask what they will bring to the table and how they will contribute to our nation. We're not a homeless shelter (though we have many of those, and even many in other countries,  because we're a nation that gives back). Other countries do the same thing. Why is this only a problem when it's the US, and when the president has an R next to his name?

I live in an area with lots of immigrants.

I live in an area that used to be Mexico!

He's complicit with a Republican party that  has no real interest in fixing the system, because it would take away a major issue they need to scream about to get people to vote for them.  Because beyond that, their platform is decidedly anti-working class.


First of all, if you can show me the numbers on how the working class is suffering under Trump, I'm all ears.

Second, if you can tell me what the democrat president or congress did to fix the system, I'm all ears. In fact, when Nancy Pelosi toured one of the facilities housing migrant children back in 2014, she urged people not to politicize those kids. (she also raised the good point about many of the kids coming over with health issues that pose a threat to others)

So again I ask the very simple question: if this situation is such an outrage and such a crime against humanity, why didn't any of you give a f--- four years ago?






pilight:

"Open Borders" doesn't mean abandoning all border policy.  It means we don't require visas.  Show your Mexican driver's license for an instant background check and you can enter.  The same thing we do for people coming from Canada, or Western Europe, or Japan, or Australia, or any of our other allied nations.

Not exactly. They don't just show up with their driver's licence and get into the country. In order to enter the US, visitors with a foreign passport need to obtain a visa. There are a lot of different types of visas, so it's pretty specific and the government wants to know what they're doing here.

You are correct that we do have a special arrangement with some countries where citizens can get a visa waiver. However, they do still need to apply for that waiver and get approved. Which I guess is different than getting a visa, but it's not exactly showing up with a driver's license and getting in.

Why isn't Mexico a part of this program? Don't know. Could be because they have a corrupt government, or all of the violence and abuse that people talk about when discussing reasons for people to come to the US illegally.

That said, Mexicans can still obtain a visa and visit the country.



There's no evidence to suggest more people would try to come if we made entry visa-less.  The people who want to come are coming anyway.

The same could be said for most laws and regulations, I suspect. Would more people commit murder if it weren't illegal? Would more people shoplift? Do people not do those things because they respect the law or fear punishment, or because they're just good people?

Food for thought. I'll skip the experimentation process though.



People are sneaking over because we've made it too difficult and expensive to come legally.  We created the problem with laws that only apply to one ethnic group of people.

In what way does it only apply to one ethnic group?


My brother has a friend who is Canadian. Despite living in different countries, they're not too far from each other, so when she was leaving her country to go overseas for a few months, she was going to store some stuff at his house and get a new place to live when she returned.

She was turned away at the border, because it looked like the was planning to move here.

On a more "facts and numbers" level, in July of 2017, the AP released an article all about the panic now felt by Europeans who were in the US illegally. While they'd been skating by for years, the crackdown on illegal immigrants was being felt in their circles.

http://fox2now.com/2017/07/11/us-deport … scal-year/

So rest assured, Trump's evil extends to everyone. The numbers of deported europeans is still lower than those who come over our southern border, naturally. But they do exist.



There are plenty of people here now who don't respect our nation or our laws or our citizens.  Look how many we have proudly carrying a flag that represented an outright rebellion against the United States.

Are you suggesting that Trump deport everyone who doesn't seem American enough, even if they're citizens?!

But seriously, actual citizens are a problem that we have to deal with. There are plenty of bad ones, but at least they're our problem to deal with. We probably don't need to borrow any more from our neighbors.



It's not our responsibility?  Tell Jeff Sessions to put away the Bible he's never read, because the Parable of the Faithful Servant says just the opposite.  It says to whom much is given, much is required.  President Bush used that quote in his 2007 State of the Union.  It's easy to say screw those poor Hispanic people running away from violence, I got mine.  But it's not a Christian sentiment and until very recently it wasn't an American sentiment.

 

I'm not debating religion. I'm debating politics.

There are plenty of situations whereby you would not be so quick to apply that philosophy. It's great to feed the hungry, but do you want the hungry to break into your home and take what they want? I don't think so.

Charity and theft are not the same thing. It's not our duty as Christians to ignore laws.



We didn't turn away the Jews escaping Germany during the depression.  What makes things so different now when we have the "greatest economy in the history of America"?


Are you seriously asking what the difference is between Jews escaping Nazi Germany and Mexicans sneaking into our country? Do you seriously have no concept of "hard life" versus "genocide"?

Anyone is free to apply for asylum. There are a number of places where they can do this in Mexico and other countries, but asylum is granted for very specific reasons. If they go through the process formally and legally, I don't think anyone has a real problem with them. If they come into our country, demanding that they have the right to take what's not theirs to take, people tend to have a problem.


And to answer your question about the economy of America... that economy will collapse if we let in anyone and everyone who wants to come into the country. No nation should do that!

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America is still a relatively young country, so it's easy to go back not-too-far and point out how things used to be as an example of the way things could be. However, the world has changed a lot sine the 1920's, the 1960's, and even the 1980's. Saying that everyone should be allowed into the country is like saying that Google should have to hire everyone who wants a job there. It would be chaos. It would destroy the economy.

Do you honestly, truly believe that we should just abandon all border policy? We should have absolutely no system for checking who comes into the country? Everyone should just come as they please? I'd say "Come and go", but let's face it... not many people are looking to rush into Mexico.

I'm all for legal immigration. I don't know that any significant number of people are opposed to it. But I absolutely do not believe that we can let everyone in, especially when they've proven that they're more than willing to ignore our laws whenever they don't feel like following them. Especially when they march through my area, waving a Mexican flag and insisting that they have a right to take what isn't theirs. In the old days, that was just called "invasion".



Larger population = more people rushing the border and sneaking over. This requires a different approach to patrolling that border. We've tried catch and release on the Mexican border. It's resulted in illegals not showing up for their court dates and disappearing into the country. Sorry, but I'd rather ship them home and let in the people who respect our nation, our laws, and our citizens enough to enter the country in the proper way. And this goes for anyone who enters our country illegally. Mexican, Canadian, or whatever. I don't care. People work their asses off, spending years and a lot of money to enter this country the right way. Why should other people get to just cut in line and take something that they didn't earn?

And if they're coming to the US to escape MS-13, I'm very sorry, but we have a problem with MS-13 as well, so maybe they should look somewhere else. It's not our responsibility to take in every sad story. It's one of the sad, but true things about life. People want to ignore the hard parts of life because it makes them feel icky, but sometimes there's no fun answer. It's unrealistic to suggest that the United States could, in this day and age, swing our gates wide open without doing incredible amounts of damage, to our healthcare system, to our education system, to our economy, to our national security... There is no area in which this would be beneficial to the American people. And sorry if it sounds cold, but the first priority of the American government should be the American people. Just like the first priority of the Canadian government should be the Canadian people. Just like with every other country in the world.

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Great. Supergirl tackling a vast Russian conspiracy. Isn't that concept sooooo 2017?

I shall continue to pass on this show.

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Agreed. We should process them and ship them home ASAP. Which is what usually happens, the first time. It's only after repeated crossings that they get more severely punished. However, when a child is involved, the issue becomes more complicated. Is the adult that they're with really their parent? That's assuming that they are travelling with an adult at all. Most of the minors being detained are not with an adult, which means that we have nobody to place them with. Even if they are the parent, are they abusive in some way? Believe it or not, children are often used as tools for crossing the border.

After all of that's done, they're all still going to need to be held someplace until they can be shipped home, or face whatever punishment they are going to face for repeated crossings, smuggling, etc. So, do we house children with adults in jails? That's not something that we'd ever even consider in a normal prison, so why would we consider it in this case?


There are many reasons why the southern border is patrolled differently than the northern border. We've discussed population numbers, the cultures that they're trying to get away from, criminal interests... The Canadian border simply isn't the same as the Mexican border, and I think it's absurd when celebrities tweet about how racist it is to treat them differently.

I also think that some of those outraged celebrities have been showing their true colors and proving my point recently. Peter Fonda calling for Barron Trump to be kidnapped and raped shows how much BS he is spewing when he talks about caring about children. No sane, rational person has that thought about a child. Ever. And they certainly wouldn't think of it if they really cared about kids. I think that abortion is murder, but you'd never see me talking about doing anything to anyone's child in revenge. It's disgusting.


The press and various people on social media have turned this into another blind-outrage issue, in order to keep people from actually discussing the issues at hand and resolving the problem. Resolving the problem does nothing to help the cause of the people who are generating this story (and they are, because as I've said before, this isn't breaking news. It's repurposed news).
We've all seen hundreds of people talking about how outrageous this is, and how wrong this is. Celebrities are telling their followers to stop following them if they don't agree. "Journalists" are comparing the situation to Nazi concentration camps (which I find disgusting on so many levels).

What isn't happening in all of this is simple conversation. We have issues: Illegal immigration, involving minors. What do we do with these minors? What do we do with the illegal immigrants?

Of course, the solution that the media is pushing people toward is just to let them all go. They're for open borders, which is insane. America cannot have open borders. Yet the politicians and the media will tell you that these people need asylum (for which there are many places in Mexico and other countries where they can go to apply, with their children) and if we don't let 100% of them in, we're monsters.

I don't see that as a viable solution, for many reasons. This is the United States. If we open our borders, we will have literally billions of people pouring in from all over the world. The United States will collapse, without question.


At the same time, I'm not a fan of kids suffering. I don't want them abused or raped, which happens often in the business of bringing kids into the country illegally. I want a good solution to this. So, what is it?


Addressing issues like MS-13 would be entirely different conversations. Let's do what the White Stripes tell us to to, and take all of our problems and break them apart. If we can agree that we have problems on the border and will illegal immigration, maybe we can start to discuss how to approach that problem. Where is that conversation in all of this outrage over the issue that people supposedly care so much about? If people cared, they'd have actual thoughts on the subject.

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The flow across the Canadian border is slower because there are many, many more people south of the US than north of it.  Mexico alone as almost four times Canada's population and a substantial percentage of the people trying to cross into the US come from further down in Central and South America.

True, population is an issue. But as I stated earlier, culture is another major issue. Mexico, and other countries beyond our southern border, are not as developed as the US or Canada (I'm not sure that developed is the word that I'm looking for, but I'll go with it). They have more motivation to leave their homes and try to come to America. Even those of us who oppose illegal immigration acknowledge and understand their desire to leave that life behind. Unfortunately, we can't take everyone in the world who wants to come to America for a better life. We take who we can.


Unaccompanied minors are a red herring.  According to the Chief of the Border Patrol, 0.02% of them are suspected or confirmed to have ties to gangs (meaning 99.8% are not).


I'm lost. When did we start talking about MS-13 in regards to the unaccompanied minors? The comment that I made was was a large number of the under-aged illegal immigrants who are being detained are unaccompanied minors. This means that the facilities for minors have to exist, because we can't just let them go because they're minors. They broke the law. How is that a red herring? I think that bringing MS-13 into this conversation is a red herring, because that is a whole separate issue. Nobody stated that all illegal immigrants were gang members.


MS-13 is also a red herring.  Jeff Sessions says they have 10,000 members in the US, which is supposedly a large increase.  In 2006, when nobody was talking about illegal immigration or this gang, they had....10,000 members in the US

Sessions says 10k is an increase: https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4666617/sessions-ms-13

2006 FBI estimates MS-13 at 10,000 US members https://archives.fbi.gov/archives/news/ … rrus041906


Again, I'm not sure why we're talking about MS-13 here. It's a very violent gang, and it is absolutely a concern. But it's not what we're talking about here.



Crime is a red herring.  Crime rates are lower along the border.

https://www.newamerica.org/weekly/112/c … he-border/


Okay. I don't really have time to research crime statistics, so sure. Again, I'm not sure what this has to do with our conversation. Illegal immigration is a crime. 100% of illegal immigrants are criminals. This is why they're being detained. The question is, what do we do when they bring their children with them? It's against the law to house children with parents who are in jail (obviously), so this isn't exactly specific to illegal immigrants.


And really, nothing we do is going to stop trafficking as long as we allow the cartels to infiltrate the CBP

"what good are more boots on the ground if the men and women wearing them also work for the cartels? What benefit is an 18-foot wall when criminals can bribe their way through the gate?"

https://www.texasobserver.org/homeland- … er-patrol/


This conversation has gotten really random.

I am opposed to US agents working with cartels... even if crime on the border is down. I'm also opposed to the US government helping cartels traffic guns. But again, that's a different topic.

By the time TNG came along, some of TOS technology already was already becoming a reality and seemed dated for a show set so far in the future. People shrugged it off because TOS was an old show, and TNG presented a more modern look at what the "future" looked like.

Now, TNG-era technology is a reality. I'm using it to type this comment right now. Yet Star Trek keeps going back to pre-TOS, trying to make that era fit into our current vision of the future, and it doesn't work. It destroys the universe created for the franchise. It makes it feel weird to watch the new shows. It doesn't play along with the rules that we all agreed to play by, with a wink and a shrug, back in the 80's.

They're creating a new franchise, calling it Star Trek, and demanding that we ignore the fact that it's not Star Trek.


So yeah, I agree. That was me saying that I agree in as few words as I can possibly muster while avoiding work.

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ireactions, nobody said it was a good situation. Nobody said that they're happy about it. It's a heartbreaking, horrible thing. So... what is the solution? The parents of these children are violating the law, so what do we do with them? This is the conversation that needs to be had, but it's not happening.

I'm actually really interested in knowing what the other side thinks should happen. What is the solution? What isn't Trump doing? Because I'm totally open to ideas, as long as they are realistic.


Oddly enough, Trump's wall may be the best solution. Stop the flow of illegal immigrants, which will result in less detainment, which will result in less children being separated from their families. Finally, we can put an end to Obama's policy of separating children from their families (for the record, I know that it's not Obama's policy, but since the media is so determined to keep referring to it as Trump's policy, I'm going to go ahead and be just as honest about it as they are)



pilight, the policies for the US/Canada border aren't quite the same as the US/Mexico border, because the situations are very different. The US does patrol the northern border, we do stop illegal crossings, smuggling, etc. However, the flow of illegal immigrants from Canada is much slower because Canada is a more advanced country, compared to Mexico. The incentive to cross illegally is smaller. The trafficking situation is different. The smuggling situation is different.

Culturally, Mexico is nowhere near being on the level of the US or Canada. This is why so many people want to leave that country, and why so many people are arguing for the borders to be opened to anyone who wants to come in (because they're fleeing their horrible homeland). The same things that make many more people want to cross the US/Mexico border illegally are the reasons why we need stronger security along that border.

So yes, there are stronger measures on the southern border. However, that's because the problem along the southern border is much greater than at the northern border. The northern border is still patrolled, and border policy is still strongly enforced, especially since 9/11. Nobody seems to care that northern border policies are enforced though.




TemporalFlux, the media tears have been pretty funny. Considering that this story was out years ago, and not one of these journalists cared Pre-Trump, everyone has to know that it's all fake. It's like watching "Chicago" at this point.

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Really? Everything I've read says that you need to cross with proper documentation, at a proper crossing point (or risk being stopped). But I've never tried it, so I don't know how well they patrol their border. I certainly wouldn't expect them to leave their border wide open or allow anyone to enter without proper documentation.


I'm not sure what you mean by "new, more draconian approach". The policy of separating families isn't new with this administration. Obama definitely did it. I think Bush did before that. And when you think about it, it makes sense. If adults are being detained/prosecuted for violating the law, do you want little kids being detained in facilities with adult prisoners? We wouldn't do that with American citizens.

And a lot of the kids that are being held in the facilities that we're seeing all over the media are unaccompanied minors. There's nobody to release them to until someone shows up for them. We certainly can't just shoo them out the door and wish them luck on the streets.

Then there are the kids who are travelling with adults who aren't related to them. Obviously, we're not going to let them take the kids.


The media is making a big thing out of "separating families", and calling this Trump's policy despite the fact that it's been happening for a long time. The logical conversation isn't taking place, as people conflate all of these separate issues into one big headline. And there is a remarkable lack of better ideas, aside from "Let everyone into the country!" which is just silly and unrealistic. We have an immigration policy which allows for many, many people from all over the world to come into our country legally. Why is it suddenly considered racist for America (and apparently only America) to enforce immigration policies? And why is it only considered racist in regards to people coming from south of the border? There are plenty of Europeans who have to go through the proper channels to be allowed into the country, and many get sent home once their visas expire. I had a friend whose visa expired and she went home, despite wanting to stay in the country. It was a shame, but it happens.

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Slider_Quinn21, sorry that I seemed to ignore your post earlier. I didn't even see it until now. Weird. But I agree. There is a temptation to attribute motives to anyone who doesn't agree with you, rather than listen to what they actually say. Most people aren't out to be eeeeeevil and most people don't want kids to suffer. Listening to both sides of an issue should be common sense, but it's not anymore. And I think that this is largely because the fad outrage is specifically designed to keep people angry and not talking. Because when people are talking, they stop seeing each other as the enemy. The comment that you linked to is a perfect example of the campaign to keep people divided. During the election, public figures were encouraging people to disown their families if they voted the wrong way. It was insane!



ireactions, I will agree that you're crazy. However, I would argue that the reason that I seem crazy to you is the fact that the version of me that lives in your head is kinda crazy. However, please try to remember that the me in your head is not actually me. I never supported Richard Spencer. I don't know that I've ever even had an opinion on Kellyanne Conway, much less been a fan. I have never supported shooting black kids. I have never supported racism. The fact that you think I support blinding children is appalling.

Again, these are words from inside your head that you're attributing to me. These things do not actually represent me or my thoughts.



pilight, agreed! And until recently, there was a really strong effort to put an end to human trafficking. Now people want to give kids to whoever happens to show up asking for them.

Border/immigration issues are not simple. This is why every country has a process that people need to go through in order to enter a country, or live in a country. I can't just walk into Canada (which is why I didn't go to Canada while I was up north) and nobody argues that I should be allowed to. I just think that it's dangerous and foolish to expect our country to simply open the borders wide and let everyone in. It's just unrealistic. And specifically when it comes to children crossing the border, we have to take into account unaccompanied minors, minors who are travelling with people who aren't parents or relatives, and children who really are coming over with their parents. But again, we can't just let everyone through without the proper processing, so what are we supposed to do? We can't keep children with adults who are caught crossing the border. That is just a recipe for bad.

It's a messed up situation. It's a long conversation. It's not just one issue, it's many issues. And yet I'm apparently the bad guy who likes blinding kids and killing black people because I'm not willing to go along with the blind outrage of the week.


Sigh. smile

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(2,613 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions, please stop saying that I believe things that I don't believe. Please stop claiming that I say things that I don't say. Please stop speaking for me in general. And when I do speak (or type), please pay attention to what I say, because the version of me that lives in reality is a lot less scary/crazy than the version of me that lives in your head.


What I said was that I'm not buying the current outrage, while at the same time pointing out that there is a very real, serious issue to discuss here. I also pointed out why I don't buy the outrage: The policies and articles pre-date Trump, yet people only care now because it fits their narrative. If people actually cared about this, and if it was as huge of bombshell as people are pretending it is, someone would have cared when the matter was first brought up. Also, people wouldn't be pinning the blame solely on Trump while excusing previous presidents.

If people cared about the subject, they would learn about the subject. They are not. They are outraged because someone blew their dog whistle, and all of the good little puppies know that they're supposed to bark really loud when that whistle is blown.



(The views expressed by me above absolutely represent the entirely of the Sliders fan community, at least to the extent that ireactions' words represent me)

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(2,613 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

True. More than once, in fact.

But I'm talking more in terms of the larger culture. Right now, people are outraged over migrant children, for example. It's not a new subject, but people are upset now because--quite honestly--they love the imagery of Trump putting people in "camps" because it fits the "literally Hitler" narrative and this is the best they could do. The articles are years old. Why did nobody care when Obama was in office? Because Obama was scandal free.

And while there is a whole, very large, complicated conversation to be had on the topic, most people aren't interested in that conversation, because they just want to talk about how Trump is literally Hitler.


In a couple of weeks, they'll move on to the next subject. Because people don't understand how little the actual subject of the outrage has to do with anything. It's about keeping people in a constant state of outrage, because it is politically beneficial. I love the debates and conversations, but I would get frigging exhausted if I had to maintain the level of blind outrage that a lot of people seem to be capable of maintaining these days. They keep the real conversation from taking place.

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(2,613 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Anyone else getting super tired of fad outrage? Y'know, where everyone gets really, really fired up about some issue that they've done zero research on, just because they read a meme about it or saw an Oprah tweet, and logic or reason have absolutely no place in the conversation, because if you don't agree with their outrage, you are *literally* a Nazi?

How can people not recognize when they're being manipulated? It happens constantly, so people should learn the signs.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I was really hoping that Ralph would go away. It seems like they're continuing down the wrong path here.

I really don't see a scenario where the show can be salvaged, so I'm not sure what to make of this. On the one hand, it's great news that people responsible for season 1 are gone. On the other hand, the foundation is rotten. I thought Berman drove Star Trek into the ground, but the modern incarnations have been made with so little respect or love for the Star Trek universe that it's almost painful to watch.

The movies are wacky fun and are entertaining enough, but they still don't register as Star Trek in my head.

Wasn't this confirmed just after the first move came out?

Either way, I'm intrigued by the whole setup for the new movie. Glad that they didn't jump to the present, but I still feel like they could have kept Steve alive and allowed Diana to have a life with him, rather than kill him off.

Of all the DCEU movies, Wonder Woman gets the most praise, but I think it's the most unfocused and flawed of the bunch. It's my least favorite of the franchise, but I'm still looking forward to seeing the sequel.

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(554 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Sorry. Been on a trip for two weeks and I'm still trying to get back into the swing of things...

Lost -

I think that's one of the big questions. Desmond's vision didn't turn out the way he saw it, so we're left to wonder if he lied to Charlie, or something changed. There's also the possibility that, even with the visions, the future is unknowable. Maybe he just saw one possible outcome and there really is no way to see the future. He put his faith in those visions, just like he put his faith in the button. Doing so had positive and negative results in both situations.

It's a really strange, but interesting, plot point.



Fringe -

I think that there was probably more story originally planned for John, but the show went in another direction and it became more important to resolve his arc and move on, rather than leave anything dangling. The show really didn't come into itself until later in season 1.

I don't think it is really the fault of either studio or the actor. The person directing those shots should have made adjustments for the situation. If it's raining, you adjust. If the sun is shining into the camera, you adjust. If you can't get your actor back at all, you adjust. The director has to make a million adjustments as he goes along, which is why a good director is a good leader who can make those changes.

This was Whedon, guys. He is stubborn and didn't roll with the punches at all. Honestly, they probably would have been better off letting the DP direct the reshoots (since this person would have worked closely with Snyder on designing the look of the movie), but they brought someone in who was supposed to alter the bones of the movie, yet wasn't up for the task. That part is Warner's fault.

I still like the movie. The mustache doesn't really bother me too much. But still, if it's an issue, it is Whedon who should carry that blame.

Suicide Squad 2 is supposed to start filming within the next year, I think. I think that's further along than it seems. These movies just don't have a ton of talk around them. The average person probably doesn't even know that Shazam is coming (and I do believe that it is part of the DCEU, but I could be wrong). It is a very different way of going about it, since we know every Marvel movie that will be released ten years in advance, but it's probably smarter. The DCEU won't get good press, so why give people that much longer to write articles about how doomed they are?

I don't think that there will be two Joker movies. I think WB/DC just develops ideas to see what works, and scraps what doesn't. This is smart. I think it's a better plan than randomly picking characters and setting a schedule, and releasing a movie regardless of whether it's ready or not. But the media, and therefore the audience, doesn't seem to get this approach.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I was never a huge fan of this Wally, obviously. I wish the actor well, but I think it'd be cool if they introduced the other Wally West now.

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(90 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

That makes sense.

I don't know that Cavill is really to blame. He probably signed onto the movie and had it on his schedule for after Justice League before any sort of hair/facial hair requirements were decided upon for the movie. He was probably aware that there would be JL reshoots, because that would happen even with Snyder. It's just a convergence of events at this point. Paramount isn't going to weaken their position for Warner Bros., and Warner Bros. is going to want to try to make their position as strong as possible too. Cavill was stuck in the middle.

I know it's pretty obvious, coming from me, but I think the blame goes to Whedon for refusing to think the problem through properly. As I said, the same scene (the cell phone footage was really the only one that I remember) could be accomplished in a number of ways. Hell, they could just make it look low-res/blocky and say it was a poor internet connection. But Whedon chose to do a high-res, full screen, straight-on closeup of Cavill's face, despite the obvious problem. And I think that shows weakness as a director, as well as possibly some of the passive aggressive attitude that we've seen from Whedon in regards to his work on the movie.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Since the shows did such similar things this season, it probably would have been cool if they'd actually played with that angle. They could have contrasted how Barry handles that situation vs. Oliver, and how their teams function without them. They could have even made a vague reference to the Thinker being Diaz's key to gaining as much power as he did (because Diaz honestly didn't seem that capable of doing it on his own). They wouldn't necessarily need to make the seasons of both shows into one big crossover, but having them ignore the fact that they were basically ripping each other off made it seem like the whole Arrowverse behind the scenes machinery doesn't work well with each other. There should be someone who at least knows the basic ideas for the big stories and could say "They're already doing that over on The Flash", so Arrow doesn't just copy and paste story elements.


With Tom Cavanaugh... I don't know his podcast. I can't listen or watch Michael Ian Black because he is such a troll. Not even just an internet troll. He's like a troll of all existence. So I don't know how Tom is on that podcast. What I think happened is that The Flash got a lot of criticism last season because people thought that it was too dark (something that I don't agree with), so the writers tried to swing the other way and introduce goofy, comedic elements to this past season.  The result was a mess all around.

I actually liked HR. I know that he was more like Tom, but I also think that he added a different type of intelligence to the team, which was interesting to see. The way they did that showed that the concept of various versions of that character could be interesting, because they're all different but have the same ability to be great. All of the versions of the character from different worlds that they showed this season were just Tom doing his take on movie/tv characters. It gave us no information about the characters and it wasn't interesting at all. I think the writers wanted to be funny, do people would stop complaining about the show being dark, and they thought that the way to do that would be to use the comedic talent that they see on set. But they did this with no consideration for the universe within the show, the characters, or the fact that they're not comedy writers and couldn't pull off this sort of wacky nonsense.

No. Paramount specifically denied the request the have Cavill shave the mustache, because of the MI character. It was all them.

Any time you do a movie, they have to design the character. A lot of the time, it ends up just looking like the actor, but they probably didn't want tall, young, handsome Cavill looking too pretty next to Tom Cruise, so they needed to give him a facial oddity of some sort, while still making him appealing to the audience. Actually, that might have been in Cruise's contract.

Regardless, I watched Justice League again at home (same night as Ragnarok, actually) and the mustache honestly doesn't bother me as much as it does some people. I know it's there, just because I know it's there. And there were ways to make that less obvious (for example, having that Superman cell phone footage shown on a TV or computer screen, from a bit of a distance and maybe a slight angle), but it doesn't ruin the movie for me.

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(267 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah, the alternate history doesn't really hold up as a version of the story that we know. Without Sam and Dean, how did Lucifer go free? How did Michael and Lucifer face off? Why wouldn't Charlie immediately get killed? The list goes on.

Probably best to not think about it. smile

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(267 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Should I take offense at that comment?

I just think that Chuck managed to remain enjoyable despite their limitations!

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(267 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah, I don't get a lot of the decisions that went into the finale. I could do without bringing over the doubles of people that we know. It doesn't feel like Bobby, so I don't see the purpose in bringing him back to the show as anything more than a quick nod. Having him on the show for keeps will feel weird, because it's Jim Beaver, but not really Bobby. And the longer they keep him around, the more questions will pop up about how the whole alternate history thing works on the show.

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(554 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I am currently on a trip, and as I drove northward, I passed the Mystery Machine, and then the Weinermobile. Eventful ride. I eventually drove through Sioux Falls, SD and the Supernatural fan in me geeked out just a little bit. smile

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(90 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The Lethal Weapon drama had been fascinating to watch. The studio totally made the wrong call on that one.

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(1,635 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah, the part with the speed force writing and Nora was interesting. I hope they have a solid plan for that.

As for Ralph... I'm just upset that he came back. He is super annoying. I imagine that he only has his powers now, if they keep him around at all. If he is on the show with all of those powers, he will outshine Barry, and that can't happen.