Re: Marvel Cinematic Universe by Slider_Quinn21
Wow. This has been a fascinating conversation with eloquent speakers on both sides.
Here are some random thoughts I had while reading the thread:
--I really like Spider-Man's costume. After years of filmmakers trying to make it more "modern," we finally get a design straight out of the Silver Age. This article explains pretty well what I love about it:
If that's too long for you, here's a key piece that stands out for me:
"The cool thing about the Civil War Spider-Man suit (besides the extra cartridges for his web-shooters) are the mechanical eyes. You can hear them whir as the black borders on the lenses contract, amazingly, from a John Romita-sized eye to a Steve Ditko-sized eye."
--Civil War was a very well-received story, so it would have been done at some point. Was it decided to do Civil War to better compete with Batman v Superman? Probably. But DC didn't move forward with an expanded universe until after The Avengers. Although attempts had been started before, DC didn't fully commit until they felt they had to step up their game to compete with Marvel.
And the two companies really do compete with each other on an absurd level. Once DC found out that Marvel was doing Civil War, they started adding a bunch of other Justice Leaguers to their movie without a proper introduction to them, even though the movie should really just focus on Batman and Superman. Meanwhile, I can't imagine a Civil War movie that doesn't have Iron Man in a major role, but yeah, at this point the movie might as well just have the Avengers label on it.
The funny thing is that DC has the more impressive stable of characters; they just don't know how to handle them right. There's no good reason why Batman and Superman haven't met on screen in live action long before now. The Justice League is way more famous than the Avengers; it's absurd that the Avengers managed to get movies made before the Justice League did. But Marvel has been doing a much better job handling their characters. Ten years ago, I didn't care about Iron Man or Captain America. But Marvel made amazing movies that got me to care.
Meanwhile, while Nolan's movies were amazing, DC continues to struggle with Superman. There was no need to do a sequel to the Christopher Reeve movies that took place "five years later" while clearly taking place in 2006 rather than the '80s. But MoS managed to make things even less interesting, by doing a remake of Superman I and II while giving us a needlessly bleak ending.
To the DC fans who may be frustrated by reading my opinions, I reiterate that DC should be kicking Marvel's butt all over the place because of their great stable of characters. They may be able to get on track at some point, but everything about BvS has made me cringe. If everyone says it's great when it's released, though, I will keep an open mind.
--I agree that RDJ is Iron Man in a way that no one actor is Batman or Superman. However, I don't think we'll get Matt Damon or anyone else recast in the role of Tony Stark. I think that part of the plan with rolling out new-to-film characters with each phase is to have an endless roster of new Avengers to fill in when other actors' contracts are up. Tony can retire, and while there probably won't be any War Machine movies, Rhodey can be a supporting character in an Avengers movie,* while Star-Lord and Ant-Man step up to become main Avengers, and (if the comics are followed on this point) maybe Bucky takes over the Captain America mantle.
*I realize that things look pretty grim for Rhodey in the latest Civil War trailer, making his participation in later films unlikely, but the trailer could be doing a deliberate misdirection.
--I think Agent Carter is terrific, even if the ending of Season 2 was a little anticlimactic. It felt like the story went on two episodes longer than it needed to. Still, I love the tone and feel of the show, and I look forward to Season 3.
--Agents of SHIELD started out pretty rough, but the great plot twist in the second half of Season 1 really kicked things into high gear, and the characters and mythology have greatly deepened since then. I will agree that Fitz's mental problems seem to appear and disappear with an asburd level of plot convenience, though.
--I haven't seen Daredevil Season 2 yet, but Season 1 was amazing. The characterization was rich and deep in that particular show. Wilson Fisk in particular was so well-drawn that all previous incarnations I've seen of him seem laughable in comparison.
--I tried one episode of Jessica Jones, but it wasn't for me. I like a little dash of realism in my comic book stories, but if I wanted to watch a story about serial rapists, I'd watch Law & Order: SVU or something. Well-made, of course, but just not my taste.
--By contrast, Supergirl is something of a guilty pleasure for me. There are usually plot holes that I'm complaining about after each episode, but (like Agent Carter), I enjoy the tone and the feel of the show so much, and it's a good cast. I also enjoy all the geeky casting choices and references. (I realize that this is a Marvel thread, but since we're comparing Marvel and DC, and since I've had some harsh words to say about DC, I wanted to balance it out a bit.)