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Well, I can't really disagree with any of that. Honestly, I don't know much about Kara as a character in the comics. So "girl Superman" is basically what I was expecting going in.
You've pointed out a ton of issues, and to me, they're all valid. Maybe it's like Marvel stuff. I have enough fun watching that I'm willing to forgive laziness. I don't know.
I was pretty happy with the SUPERGIRL finale. TF says that it feels like it's for children. I'd say that description is incomplete. SUPERGIRL is an all ages series. It's a family product like TOY STORY, THE LEGO MOVIE, ARCHIVE and SPIDER-MAN LOVES MARY JANE.
I'm not blind to the flaws of SUPERGIRL, having listed them exhaustively in a post that other posters inexplicably attributed to Informant. However, I am in favour of its mission, its spirit, its values, its goals (albeit goals that are often contradictory and mutually exclusive).
The season finale had some issues, but I'm prepared to dismiss all of them. I have no problem with Myriad being undone by Supergirl inspiring the masses, the series having built the S-shield in National City as an iconic symbol of hope that is meant to be just as meaningful as Helen Danvers reaching out to Alex.
The superfight fight taking place in a deserted location? Well, that's where the Myriad hardware was buried -- out of sight, far from population centers, and hardly any different from BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN insisting that Metropolis' downtown core was empty or having the trinity fight Doomsday in an apparently vacant part of Gotham City. Alex flying the pod? Well, clearly, the AI of Kara's mother decided to help her out.
I definitely got the same sense from the finale as I did BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN in that the finale seemed to have far too much going on. At times, it seemed like scenes had been sped up at 1.3 times in order for it to fit in the running length -- and I got the sense that lines were cut here and there. At one point where Maxwell Lord tells J'onn that Supergirl is going to try to talk people out of Myriad, I got the sense that J'onn was about to respond, but the shot ended -- I imagined J'onn saying that if and when this failed, they could still use the bomb, right?
The Myriad plot was, to me, darkly insightful in noting that every problem with the world could be dealt with by removing free will from human beings and directing them to spend their time entirely focused on environmental problems at the expense of their individuality and personal will. The fact that Cat Grant didn't even notice everyone had been hypnotized was a grim comment on this vision of a better world.
I wished the episode could have been a bit longer to explore this a bit more and also pace Alex's fight a bit better, because that's really the plot point needed to hammer home why Kara can save National City from Myriad with her broadcast. The drama of Kara saying farewell to each person in her life was really touching, as was the revelation that J'onn had been able to free himself from the DEO the entire time. The fight with Alex was really unnerving for me because of Kara's fear of injuring her sister; the battle in the desert had a real sense of desperation that Kara could lose her home. The material was forced and lacking in subtlety, but the actors and the director made me *feel* all of it, so I was okay with all the flaws.
The claim that Kara is being written as Clark is strange to me; she's not being written like any Clark Kent I'm familiar with and while I haven't read every Superman comic, I've read a selection from each era. The 30s - 60s Clark is a bumbling oaf while Superman goes from an activist firebrand to a rather gentle father figure before the 70s and 80s transformed Clark into a charismatic journalist with Superman as a Herculean fantasy figure. The 90s and 2000s transitioned from a dual personality into three personalities: Clark on the Smallville farm, Superman/Kal-El of Krypton and Clark in Metropolis with different blends of each of the three in different situations, as played by Brandon Routh. SMALLVILLE just wrote Clark on the farm with occasional flashes of more Christopher Reeve style Superman behaviour that represented adulthood and by the end, Clark was pretty much in Superman mode all the time, but there was no duality of persona. ("You walk like a fireman and talk like a cop.")
Kara isn't really like that -- I guess she's closest to Brandon Routh except there aren't multiple personas. Kara Zor-El/Kara Danvers/Supergirl are the same person with no difference in personality, but different situations bring out different aspects of her; superheroics bring forth her light-hearted, fun-loving side matched with determined heroism; offices bring out Kara's unnerved sense of displacement which originates from being an adopted refugee; the DEO brings out both.
I think Alex Danvers is wonderful and the actress makes her distinct from Kara by showing how Kara is caring and heroic, but Alex has a devious, manipulative and at times ruthless side, exemplified by her using Maxwell Lord's attraction to spy on him and stabbing Astra through the heart. Kara doesn't have that kind of killer instinct and while the scripts have struggled to keep that in place, the actress provides it.
But to say she's being written as Clark -- well, I don't recall any Clark ever being anything like this Kara. Regardless of which Clark, Clark's defining characteristic is being constantly in disguise and engaging in subterfuge; Kara doesn't really do that. The secret identity aspect of SUPERGIRL is almost irrelevant to the point where even Cat Grant sees right through "Kiera."
J'onn being reinstated at the DEO was dumb and the reason it doesn't work -- they meant to have an episode with the US President to be played by Lynda Carter. But the schedule didn't work out, so they failed to establish the character of the US President and why she would be inclined to grant J'onn clemency -- in which case it would have been best to have him taken on as a consultant rather than the boss.
Anyway. I really like SUPERGIRL because, despite all of its mis-steps, it's trying to do something good and it inspires fan mail like this:
Dear Melissa Benoist and Chyler Leigh,
You met thousands of people last weekend. I want to tell you about your impact on three of them. Three little girls, specifically, who were all wearing Superman pajamas and were camped out at the front of the autograph lines on Saturday morning. (I would love to get them Supergirl pajamas, but we couldn’t find any. DC should really get on that).
Supergirl is the first show that our entire family watches together. After dinner on Monday nights, the younger two girls always race upstairs to put on pajamas and brush teeth, so as not to be late for the opening credits.
But it’s our oldest daughter that has gained the most from Supergirl. She identifies strongly with Kara Danvers. Like Kara, our girl has long blonde hair; she wears glasses; she was adopted. And just as Kara does, our girl misses her first family, and she struggles with feeling alien at times.
Over the past year, our oldest girl has grown more independent. She is in middle school now and prefers to hang out in her room with the door shut, listening to music, watching YouTube videos and reading YA books. Her dad and I and her two younger sisters feel wistful for the days when she plopped herself front and center into every family interaction.
But her intense (and developmentally normal) desire to separate from the family melts away for an hour on Monday nights, when she curls up beside us on the couch as we all snuggle together to watch Supergirl. During commercials, she loves to run across the room, pulling off her glasses and shouting, “I Am Supergirl!” while her younger sisters sit giggling in delight. She is proud to be adopted, just like Kara Danvers.
Her relationship with her younger sisters is complicated. They are our biological daughters, and this creates deep and unavoidable conflict for her. No matter how much we reassure her that we love her the same as the younger girls, she tests us.
During the scenes in Supergirl where Alex and Kara explore the painful aspects of their relationship as sisters through adoption, our whole family absorbs every word, every expression, because seeing this dynamic on mainstream television makes our family feel less alone. The fact that both Alex and Kara are kickass, strong, smart, flawed, beautiful women who work hard, cry, laugh, yell, fight, and make mistakes has been an incredible model for all of our girls.
When your family is built through adoption, you rarely see nuanced portrayals of adoptive families in the media. It’s all about extremes. Fairy tales and fantasy shows usually resort to the trope of the evil step-parents or the abusive adoptive parents, with the adoptees depicted as mistreated victims. On the other end, modern stories often present the adoptive parents as saviors who rescued abandoned orphans and gave them the perfect life. In reality, neither of these fits our adoptive family. Watching Supergirl has normalized our experience, where some parts of adoption are amazing and other parts are really difficult, but what never changes is that we are family, and we love each other. Thank you for that.
On Saturday morning, our middle daughter was having a rough time as we were trying to leave the house to come see you. Often, in these situations, our oldest daughter can act as an agitator, which escalates the problems. I pulled my oldest aside and said, “We are going to meet Supergirl. How do you think she would respond to her sister?” Instead of falling into the typical sibling patterns, she swooped over to her younger sister and comforted her. The effect of her behavior was instant and soothing. She was her best self when she was trying to be the Supergirl within.
Since I was working at a booth at C2E2, I was able to get the girls in early, and we made a beeline for the autograph area. Our plan was to get into Melissa’s line first and then head to Chyler’s. The girls grew impatient after an hour, but we plied them with hot pretzels and books to read.
When you both arrived, all three of my daughters leaped up from the floor with shining eyes. Our five-year-old is so small that my husband carried her in his arms so she see could over the autograph table. Melissa, you were the first one we met.
“Hi, guys!” you said with a big smile, taking in the three girls dressed alike. When we explained to you that our oldest likes to pretend she is you, because she is adopted and wears glasses and has long blonde hair, you went with it without missing a beat, addressing her as Supergirl.
Our oldest told you how excited she is for the upcoming episode with The Flash, and your face lit up as you expressed how you, too, couldn’t wait. Our younger girls wanted to talk about how you went bad in the previous episode after being exposed to Red Kryptonite. You looked at them and saw the concern in their faces and said with empathy, “Wasn’t that awful?” Your warmth immediately reassured them that you are the kind-hearted Supergirl that they adore.
After you signed an autograph for my daughters, I asked you to sign a piece of paper for our bullying prevention nonprofit, the Pop Culture Hero Coalition, and you did. I couldn’t wait to show my colleagues. Meeting you and Chyler was the highlight of my own personal C2E2 experience, I will admit!
After you gave everyone high fives and smiles, we said goodbye and headed to meet Chyler.
Chyler, you were amazing, so approachable, so kind. You asked each girl her name and age; you told me that you are also a mom of three kids. “We would have a lot to talk about,” you said to me, making me feel as if you could be a friend and not just a television star. My middle daughter explained that whereas our oldest is Supergirl, she likes to think of herself as Alex. You nodded and agreed that she is Alex.
When I asked you to sign a paper for the Pop Culture Hero Coalition, you enthused about how important bullying prevention is. The girls chatted with you about how awesome Alex is, and you could not have been easier to talk to. After high fives all around and autographs, we left.
Melissa and Chyler, your reflected glow surrounded all five of us for the rest of the day. Merging fantasy with reality is always fraught with expectations, but you both were the heroines our girls have grown to love.
Last night, when we all settled in to watch the latest episode of Supergirl, there was a different feel. “Hi, Kara!” the girls shouted at the screen. “Hi, Alex!” they yelled. “We know you!!!!” We plan to frame your autographs and hang them right over the television, a forever reminder of the day we met the Danvers sisters, an adoptive family that strikes a responsive chord with ours.
Carrie Goldman
I'm not blind to the flaws of SUPERGIRL, having listed them exhaustively in a post that other posters inexplicably attributed to Informant.
Blech. That's my bad. I figured it was old complainy Informant 
*Back to SLIDERS REBORN*
That's it! I'm only saying nice things from now on!
Unbelievable, Slider_Quinn21. I can't believe you're so determined to characterize Informant as someone who just hates FUN AND can only enjoy joyless exercises in grimdark. It's bad enough you clearly hate old people and women, but anhedonia is a serious condition and poor Informant is clearly suffering and in need of our compassion and understanding.
;-)
In all seriousness, Informant's criticisms of SUPERGIRL are pretty legitimate and reasonable. They're just criticisms in areas that I, personally, consider irrelevant in the face of how SUPERGIRL makes me feel.
Supergirl is truly one of the best shows on CBS at the moment. I love the way she brings Cat a latte in every episode, because it makes her seem like someone who isn't afraid to lower herself to a human level, despite being as powerful as she is.
Also, I like when she eats pizza or ice cream and gets really excited about it.
I think Supergirl is pretty.
That's it! I'm only saying nice things from now on!
Ha, no! Plus....a Marvel movie is coming out soon! We need you to rip it to shreds
I liked Guardians of the Galaxy, and Ant-Man was fun. And Winter Soldier... Emily VanCamp is pretty.
I ruined everything.
Or maybe you made things better! When life gives you lemons, make lemonade.
Slider_Quinn21 has really fried my last nerve this time.
I've tolerated his antics over the years -- agreeing to plot the pilot episode of SLIDERS (2013) and submitting a sketchily incoherent treatment that didn't even make it to halfway to the ending before blowing it off to enter a screenwriting contest while promising a return to writing that we're all still waiting on. Leaving poor Informant to finish the treatment that I then scripted, at which point Slider_Quinn21 took half a year before offering a critique of the script in which he provided an opinion so vaguely unspecific that it gave the strong impression he had neglected to read past the title page. Contributing to SLIDERS (2013) afterwards by offering more and more and more ideas for the Pilot episode ("What if Arturo killed Mike Mallory?" "What if Bennish joins the sliders?) when it had been scripted for months and ideas for subsequent episodes were needed. Declaring that it would be a bad idea to start a SLIDERS twentieth anniversary special with the original sliders alive and well and home but that he'd be interested in seeing someone try and then failing to provide feedback on SLIDERS REBORN even eight months after agreeing to do so aside from writing another E-mail that gave the vague yet incredibly specific sense that he had once again not read it.
All this I could bear with aplomb and understanding because we're friends, God damn it. I never required that you make up for any of that; I never even needed you to apologize for it. But now you've broken Informant.
I'm calling in my marker. All of the other grevious misdeeds are acceptable, but this one you have to fix. And I insist you deal with this before CIVIL WAR comes out, because if I have to read Informant talking about how nice it was to see yet another superhero film climaxing in an aerial action set piece, I -- I -- I -- I -- I swear to God I will kill somebody. Specifically, I will kill myself and make it look like you did it.
For what it's worth, I probably won't get to see Civil War in theaters. I usually can't justify spending six to ten dollars on a movie ticket, just for the pleasure of sitting in a room full of annoying teenagers who won't shut off their cell phones or shut their mouths during a movie.
I saw Batman v Superman for free after buying The Flash on blu-ray. I have $10 in free Fandango money set aside for Suicide Squad.
All of this means that there's no need to argue. I can accentuate the positive until that sucker hits home video!
You know, it's funny, I've never really been one to be bothered by people in movie theaters. What's interesting is the new phenomenon of theaters where you can eat. Informant, I know you're familiar with Studio Movie Grill and/or Alamo Drafthouse - but I know there are others across the country. One of my friends refuses to go because there's way too much going on. Whether it's people clacking silverware or asking for a refill or simply the server who goes around picking up plates, dropping off new ones, or handing out the bills. When you go to Studio Movie grill, you're guaranteed at least one distraction when the server drops off the bill, and that *always* happens during act 3.
And while, yes, that's a distraction, it's never really bothered me. I chose to see movies like Dark Knight Rises and Interstellar in more traditional theaters so there were zero distractions, but I've seen plenty of films at Studio Movie Grill and haven't been turned off by the experience. In fact, I've always thought it was sorta efficient. I go see movies around dinnertime anyway, those places have pretty good food, and it's nice to kill two birds with one stone.
I imagine you hate those places, Info?
And, yes, please come back and be your old self. I've clearly broken ireactions as well. :-/
LAURIE: "You will not believe what he did at the movie, Mom -- "
HENRIETTA: "What'd he do now?"
LAURIE: "There was a guy texting in the theatre -- " (jabs a finger at ireactions) " -- and he threw dimes at the back of the guy's head until he put the phone away!"
ME: "That's not true. I did not throw dimes at anybody. I would never do that."
LAURIE: "You fucking liar! I saw you! And you say you do it all the time!"
ME: "I throw pennies, not dimes. I know how to budget."
I haven't been to any of those places yet. I know they just opened up an Alamo Drafthouse in Richardson (next to that cabin with a basement, hidden deep in the woods... Supernatural joke. Never mind) but I haven't actually gone. I do imagine that it would be distracting, but for the less important mo ies it probably wouldn't matter. Their menu looks interesting anyway.
We probably live way closer than either of us think. I also live near the woods of Richardson haha.
I wonder if we should set up a Tumblr for Informant/Slider_Quinn21 shippers with fanvids and fanfic and GIFs and set up a Kickstarter to send them on a dream date to Studio Movie Grill. Or maybe get them in a room together to record opposing audio commentary on all the DC and Marvel movies.
I'm getting a little uncomfortable with the direction of this conversation.
This menu at the Studio Movie Grill looks very appetizing.
And they serve Sliders, so this thread is on topic!
I've actually never had bad food there. They also have endless pizza on Tuesdays (?) which is pretty good.
Most of them also have a bar area where you can sit back and complain why Batman killed all those people 
Two things about this week's Flash.
1. Seems like Flash wasted a pretty cool character from the comics. https://www.inverse.com/article/14895-h … -have-been
2. AGAIN, they waste an opportunity to work with Team Arrow. I know they call Felicity about the dwarfstar material, but Barry has zero powers, and they don't make any mention of asking Oliver for backup. I know Oliver just lost Laurel, but it would've been the perfect opportunity to call Oliver and the perfect excuse for him to not show up. Not only would Ollie be able to help protect Central City with no Flash and aid in the rescue, but Barry would also need training to fight as a "normal" person if he's really gonna be the Flash without his Flash powers.
I know I should just let Flash be Flash and not worry about the Arrowverse, but the fact that Oliver is out there. And those teams not being in contact, when it puts people in danger to not be in contact, is just irresponsible and takes me out of the story.
I agree about wasting Griffin. That is a shame.
I'm not sure where the shows are in relation to each other right now. It's no spoiler that Barry has his speed on the day of Laurel's funeral. So is The Flash currently taking place when Laurel is alive? Or is it taking place in Arrow's future?
Either way, Rip Hunter obviously doesn't return his team to the time they left and now Sara's sister is dead. After all they just did to save their younger selves and their loved ones... Way to go, Rip.
So, about last night's Arrow episode, I have a question.
The character that Madison McLaughlin plays has been spoken of as this big deal by the producers. There was this whole mystery surrounding her and the producers said that no show had ever done anything like this before.
Having seen her on the show, I have no idea what they were talking about. What was so unheard of? I'm confused.
I'm not sure where the shows are in relation to each other right now. It's no spoiler that Barry has his speed on the day of Laurel's funeral. So is The Flash currently taking place when Laurel is alive? Or is it taking place in Arrow's future?
That's a really good question. Did the Supergirl episode take place in that brief part where Barry asks "how long was I gone?" the week before? That's the time he wore that device he was wearing in the Supergirl episode.
I always go on the assumption that Flash and Arrow are always at the exact same time they are. Occasionally, they might be happening at the same time each week, but I assume Laurel died a couple/few weeks ago on Flash. If Laurel isn't dead on Flash, then it's even more irresponsible not to call Oliver.
I haven't watched last night's Arrow yet so I can't comment on whatever you wrote there
Question: is it time for Grant Gustin to put on a little bit of muscle? He is playing a superhero whose body heals at a rapid rate. That means that Barry should put on muscle pretty easily. Obviously, he shouldn't be as bulky as Oliver, but shouldn't he have some muscle? He looks very skinny/scrawny at times.
Question 2: how funny would it be if next season's Arrow flashbacks revolved around Laurel and something she experienced while Oliver was missing?
So, about last night's Arrow episode, I have a question.
The character that Madison McLaughlin plays has been spoken of as this big deal by the producers. There was this whole mystery surrounding her and the producers said that no show had ever done anything like this before.
Having seen her on the show, I have no idea what they were talking about. What was so unheard of? I'm confused.
I'd have to read the exact quote to understand - the mystery was probably just so they didn't know she was playing a fake Black Canary to preserve the Laurel death.
But something no show has ever done before? I can't even imagine what that would be.
And after watching Arrow, I have no idea when it takes place during the Flash. It's definitely not concurrent. I'm guessing it happened before Barry lost his speed.
Here is one article. I think I saw others that were similar, but they all get jumbled after a while.
http://tvline.com/2016/04/27/arrow-seas … ck-canary/
My theory about The Flash is that it takes place at the same time, and it is just another example of why the flash forward story was a bad idea. When you do that, you have to know exactly how it all lines up (like with Lost) or else it doesn't work. This week, we saw those scenes play out in context, but they still didn't feel like they fit. Felicity's emotional state didn't fit. Conversations felt wrong. And obviously, Barry had his speed.
My theory is that the ARROW producers messed up. They filmed the graveyard scenes in when filming the premiere having no knowledge that (a) Barry would lose his speed (b) Oliver would be enduring a betrayal on the team (c) Oliver was dealing with his engagement being called off or (d) who the hell was actually dead.
As a result, when this episode came, they reused the premiere footage and script pages despite the fact that their flash forwards no longer fit the present situation. The simplest solution would have been to reshoot or re-edit Grant Gustin's appearance so that he's seen to walk off camera without indicating whether or not he super-sped away -- there'd still be a continuity error in the premiere, but it at least wouldn't be a reminder.
The flash forwards very much don't fit with the actual context that we're given -- a serious problem resulting from flash forwards done without any idea of what that context will be. The flash forwards have Oliver and Felicity shattered by whatever happened -- vengeful, angry and broken. But what we saw this week was that Diggle was the only one in that state; if anything, Laurel's death has made Oliver and Felicity clear and focused on Laurel's legacy and determined not to sink to the level of their enemies. The flash forwards had Felicity and Oliver vowing bloodsoaked revenge; but the actual present-day episode is completely at odds with that; Laurel's death has made them recommit to the Black Canary's legacy of justice, not vengeance. These are two completely opposing reactions and they don't fit together at all.
As loath as I am towards retcons to repair sloppiness, it would have been best to refilm the flash-forwards so that Oliver and Felicity declaring Damien must die is simply a pragmatic wish to prevent more loss rather than lashing out due to Laurel's death. And Laurel's death is really the team's fault. They had the source of Damien's power RECONSTRUCTED and RESIDING IN AN INSECURE LOCATION KNOWN TO THEIR ENEMIES OH MY GOD HOW DUMB IS THAT?!!?!?!?!?!?
Here is one article. I think I saw others that were similar, but they all get jumbled after a while.
Hmmm. Well the only thing I can think of is that we still don't know enough about the character. How was she able to use Laurel's device when it was coded to Laurel's vocal cords? I was thinking it'd be some sort of clone at first. Was that ever answered?
And I agree with both of you - the writers messed up and then boxed themselves into a corner. And I guess they sided with continuity over consistency. Which is disappointing - I want to believe that these guys have a plan, and this works against that.
So I wanted to make a new post for this because it's something that has been bothering me for the last couple of days. One of the cool things that DC is doing vs. Marvel in respect to TV vs. Movies is the idea of a multiverse. Agents of Shield and Avengers takes place in the same universe - on the same Earth. So while Coulson and May are punching Hydra members, Tony Stark could be across town eating a club sandwich.
In DC, they just said that it all takes place separately. Clearly the CW stuff crosses over, but this year confirmed that Supergirl is a different universe. The film universe is its own thing, and Supergirl confirmed that by saying that Barry Allen didn't exist in that universe (when he exists in BvS).
Here's the thing. Barry Allen exists in three of the four universes we know exist. In two of them, he looks like Grant Gustin, but in one of them he looks like Ezra Miller. I know it's fun to have Gustin and company play alternate versions of themselves, but what if they'd decided to play it totally different and have everyone look different on every world? I've talked about this in sliders conversations, but human conception is the ultimate spin of alternate world roulette wheel. If a multiverse is real, there's a great chance that someone exists with my name, but there's a very remote chance the he looks exactly like me. Parents pick names before the birth all the time, but so many variables could affect how someone looks.
Now maybe Earth-2 is just very close to the Arrowverse. We know the Supergirlverse is a lot different. And that the movieverse is even different. I just wonder if the show missed a chance to really explain the whole "Barry is different in the movies than he is on TV" thing.
I don't think the DC cinematic universe is considered to be on the same multidimensional axis (as Smarter-Quinn might put it) as SUPERGIRL and the CW shows. I don't think Barry's tachyon accelerator could take him to the Snyder films' universe -- at least not in terms of the storytelling logic set up so far. When we saw flashes of other dimensions, we saw Melissa Benoist's SUPERGIRL and we saw the 90s FLASH TV series in which Barry Allen looks like John Wesley Shipp -- but that makes TV sense in that Barry in the 90s show was older and would look like the CW Flash's father -- who is also played by John Wesley Shipp. Also, we've met Tina McGee in the CW universe, who was also a character on the 90s FLASH show and also played by the same actress, Amanda Pays. The Trickster, played by Mark Hamill in the 90s show, is again played by the same actor in the CW show.
The CW series is set in a parallel version of the 90s universe in which Barry was born at a later date in time for some undisclosed reason. Either this is a parallel universe where Henry and Nora Allen conceived Barry at a later point in their lives, or the cross temporal battles between Eobard Thawne and Barry Allen altered the 90s FLASH timeline into the CW FLASH timeline. This was done partially in tribute to the 90s show (which the FLASH showrunners really like) and partially due to their casting choices; I wouldn't say they conceived the show as an alternate timeline for the previous show, but it's what they ended up making. The only discontinuity is that Iris West's one episode of the previous FLASH show had her played by Paula Marshall who obviously isn't an older or younger version of Candice Patton.
It's a bit like Temporal Flux's idea for rebooting SLIDERS where the original characters discover sliding at a later date in life. And it's a bit like Matt Hutaff's idea for rebooting SLIDERS -- where a cosmic cataclysm altered reality in a way that delayed the inciting incident of the series.
Alternatively -- the Ezra Miller version of the Flash had a different mother or father and it, like Robert Floyd's Mallory, actually a brother of the earlier version of the character but with the same name.
All very interesting ideas. I think the official DC/Warner Bros stance is that the TV shows and movies are part of the same multiverse. They will probably never come together (though that would be an EPIC move on the studio's part) but they like to wink at the thought of a Crisis event somewhere down the line.
I think that the idea of many actors playing one character's doubles would be interesting, but it might be impractical on screen. We look at Grant and see Barry. If you have ten actors all playing a character with the same name, it just becomes different characters turning their head when someone calls that name
Another element of the flash forward that didn't work was the decision to keep the target of Oliver's hatred a mystery. We all thought it was Damien, but the writers didn't commit to that because they wanted options. The scene meant absolutely nothing, because not one word had purpose. It is really frustrating.
I think that the idea of many actors playing one character's doubles would be interesting, but it might be impractical on screen. We look at Grant and see Barry. If you have ten actors all playing a character with the same name, it just becomes different characters turning their head when someone calls that name.
Oh, absolutely. And, again, half the fun of parallel universes on TV (be it Sliders, Flash, Fringe, etc) is having different versions of characters played by the same actor. Seeing a meek and geeky Grant Gustin is fun because we know Barry as being fun and confident. Same with the other actors. There's less of a point to having Caitlin be Killer Frost if it's just another actress named Caitlin Snow playing her.
And if ireactions is right about the Snyderverse and the Arrowverse being in different multiverses, then it makes that whole point moot and the Arrowverse would function like Sliders where doubles are identical for whatever reason.
I just picture dialogue like this happening.
BARRY (weary from a fight with Zoom) - Who the Hell was that?
HARRISON WELLS (played by Robert Floyd) - That was Zoom.
CISCO - Whoa. Who are you, pal? How did you get passed our security?
HARRISON - I designed it. I'm Harrison Wells.
BARRY - That's impossible.
HARRISON - I'm Harrison Wells from a parallel Earth. The same Earth that Zoom is from.
CISCO - But you look nothing like Harrison Wells.
HARRISON - I'm from an entirely parallel Earth based on an infinite number of parallel choices. You think I'd look exactly like your Harrison Wells?
CISCO (embarrassed and sad) - Yeah. Kinda. I guess.
HARRISON - You know how many sperm -
CAITLIN (cutting HARRISON off) - Alright. We're all smart enough to know how that works. Let's just move on.
I think there is some cool "choice vs. destiny" commentary in the idea that we are fated to exist, but everything that follows is based on our choices. That, yes, every version of Barry Allen is the same person, genetically speaking, but could be entirely different based on experience and choice.
But there is still the oddball world where he doesn't exist (Supergirl's world) or where some other person got his name and life (like the alternate version of Smallville where Jonathan and Martha adopted a human baby and named him Clark).
Maybe the Ezra Miller Barry Allen is from a world where Barry's mother became pregnant with twins, only one did not survive to birth. Grant's Barry would have existed there, but he didn't survive.
I had an exchange for SLIDERS REBORN that I could never find a place to use.
ARTURO: "Ms. Welles! Contact Mr. Calhoun, see if he's familiar with this individual."
WADE: "Which Gomez Calhoun? The TV addicted one or the overparented one?"
ARTURO: "The overparented one. The adopted one left the city to flee his mother again."
I never found a place where the sliders needed to deal with motels, so it never came up.
Is it weird that Legends of Tomorrow opted for an all-CGI (weird looking) giant Ray Palmer as opposed to just using perspective to make him look giant? It was a cool idea - I just thought his "growing" scene looked really weird, and they could've achieved the same look without resorting to CGI.
Maybe, but the robot that he was fighting was all CG, and couldn't be done quite the same way with a real person in a costume (I really liked the fact that we could see inside it).
The fight didn't look too bad to me. Obviously CG, but really no worse than most movies these days. If they'd had more time, maybe they could have made the movement look more real and heavy.
Maybe, but the robot that he was fighting was all CG, and couldn't be done quite the same way with a real person in a costume (I really liked the fact that we could see inside it).
The fight didn't look too bad to me. Obviously CG, but really no worse than most movies these days. If they'd had more time, maybe they could have made the movement look more real and heavy.
I think the fight itself was fine - I didn't want a Godzilla type fight. I'm just talking about the "growing" scene. In the fight, you usually couldn't see Ray's face. In the growing scene, his face was front and center, and it looked like one of those movies like Polar Express. I was watching on a smaller non-HD TV, and it still looked horrible. I was just wondering why they decided to use CG there.
Yeah, that part was weird. For a second, I thought that his growing head was going to pop through the helmet or something
Some light being shed on why Supergirl hadn't been renewed yet:
https://www.thewrap.com/supergirl-renew … exclusive/
CBS is paying 3 million *per episode* just for the license fee to have the show?! That's before they pay a dime toward actually making the show. Yikes. In today's terms, you could probably make two episodes of Sliders just off that license fee.
Interesting. I'd like to see the show moved to the CW, but I also worry about how that would affect the show and its budget. I also wonder what would happen if the move happened - would Kara stay in her own universe, or would she somehow be brought into Earth-1? Because I imagine there'd be more crossovers, but Barry is the only one who can actually cross over (literally) to her show.
That is a lot of money, for something that really, really isn't worth it. A CW move would be incredibly messy. With Barry, Constantine and Vibe, amongst others, I think a crossover would be easy enough. And plot-wise, cutting the Supergirl budget could be a good thing (get rid of Hank, the DEO, and Jimmy. Calista may not be interested in being on the CW too). Hell, having Kara and a couple of her friends get thrown onto Earth-1 could be the perfect setup. She would even be on a world where Superman doesn't exist.
But I don't know that the move is realistic. The CW would have to want another superhero show. But do they? Most of their shows from this year have been renewed. Where would Supergirl even air?
Well, having cost-assessed BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN as basically letting WB break even, the same perspective applied to SUPERGIRL yields an even worse result. SUPERGIRL's ratings don't justify a $3 million per episode licensing fee. WB either needs to reduce the fee (as they did for CHUCK) to offset the lower revenue in advertising or the show needs a lower budget -- and I don't know if it's even possible. Berlanti has said outright that SUPERGIRL can't be done on a CW budget; the show uses lavish wire rig effects and detailed location filming and intricate fight scenes that require just as much practical work as well as CG. I don't see where costs could be cut; the show is already struggling to render Supergirl. There's a reason why Clark rarely flew or had extensive superfights on SMALLVILLE.
Creatively, I think SUPERGIRL tried to cast too wide a net. As a family show, the content was fine, but the contradictory approach to Kara and her world (she's an adolescent adult who's a glorified intern as a highly placed espionage officer) resulted in a version of Supergirl who wasn't one or the other or much of anything. The result was a character and a show that was internally opposed to each facet of itself and the final product was confusing despite the accessible nature of the stories. I'd like to see a second season, but I really could not blame CBS if they simply couldn't afford it.
Deadline has put up a more in-depth article on Supergirl's renewal issues:
http://deadline.com/2016/05/supergirl-s … 201750208/
They were expecting a California tax credit, and the credit was denied. As a result, they produced in California for zero financial benefit when they could have been in Vancouver getting a tax credit there. That's where the talk of moving the show to Vancouver has come from.
If Supergirl survives through a move to Vancouver, I'm betting on a significant retooling that will probably shed some cast. There would also likely be some cast or recurring additions because you only get that Canadian tax credit if you use a certain percentage of Canadian actors in your production (not necessarily main cast).
The question is whether they will pull a Sliders season two and try to ignore or gloss over the season one cliffhanger so they can just dump Supergirl and a couple of her cast into the Arrowverse. Kicking Supergirl out of her universe with no way home would be the quickest and cleanest way to explain all the missing cast (especially the likely event that Calista Flockhart would not be interested in going to Vancouver - she's too big of a character to ignore unless you did a "stranded away from home" approach for Kara).
Well, my question would be whether or not they'd still set the show in National City. National City is clearly Los Angeles which is clearly not Vancouver.
If its me, I don't think it's a huge deal to get rid of some people. If they send Kara off to the Arrowverse or another city, I think the show could do some good. I don't really know who the show *needs* to get rid of, but a smaller, more intimate cast could probably do the show some good.
The thing that annoys me is that there are plenty of other incentives to get around the country. It doesn't need to be LA or Vancouver anymore. I would love to see some new scenery. But that would make it harder to do crossovers.
I wonder if the Flash crossover was done to get ratings, or to establish a multiverse for this type of situation
Well, FRINGE seemed to transition from New York City to Vancouver reasonably well. Certainly, the show will *look* a little different, but modern colour correction and lighting advances by leaps and bounds with every day; in this day and age, Season 3 of SLIDERS could have looked more like Vancouver. But personally, I too, would like to see SUPERGIRL moved to wherever Informant does his extra work and then he could be our inside man on the show.
I'd love if Supergirl filmed in Dallas. The only regret about my trip to Vancouver last December was that I *COMPLETELY FORGOT* that they filmed all these shows there. I could've watched Flash film about six blocks from my hotel on the night I had nothing planned. I'd absolutely go watch filming of a show.
Unfortunately, Texas has cut their incentives program. We have fewer shows now, but every once in a while, they really go out of their way to woo a show.
As much fun as it would be to work on it, I doubt they'd pick Dallas. Still, there are a lot of cities that would look and feel unique, and we always see the same three cities used on TV. It gets old.
Wherever they move, they should embrace it. If they try to pretend that everything is the same for Kara, it will be more awkward.
Wait, I just realized something....how are people supposed to binge watch the Arrowverse? Honestly. Netflix has Arrow and Flash, and I assume it will have Legends of Tomorrow once next season is up.
But it has to be watched in the order it aired - individually - or entire parts aren't going to make sense. Or, just as bad, things are going to be spoiled. And I don't just mean the crossover specials where the plot of Flash is resolved on Arrow. But there are clear spoilers for Flash and Arrow on Legends of Tomorrow. If you don't watch the three shows one episode at a time in the order they aired, I really don't think the shows will make their intended amount of sense.
And I don't think anyone would think to do that.
This is why I stopped reading comic books.
With comic books -- well, I was recently reading WITCHBLADE, THE DARKNESS and its assorted crossover mini-serieses which include FIRST BORN and ARTIFACTS as well as its spin-offs, ANGELUS and the ongoing ARTIFACTS. I would read WITCHBLADE until the ads or the letters page informed me that there was a crossover. Then I would switch to reading THE DARKNESS and read until I was synced up with WITCHBLADE. Then I'd read the crossovers, then move back to reading WITCHBLADE until I hit the next crossover at which point I'd double back and continue with THE DARKNESS until arriving at the crossover again. Sometimes, I didn't read things in the right order but would only realize halfway in and I would start over again at the crossover point and get it right this time.
Well the problem with the Arrowverse is that it isn't synced up. You'd need to watch the first two seasons of Arrow, then start alternating between Arrow and Flash. Then halfway through season 4 of Arrow and season 2 of Flash, you'd need to start working Legends of Tomorrow in. Because, again, you'd get spoilers for each of the shows if you don't do it that way.
And I don't know if there's a great roadmap to do that except to just look up original airdates. And I don't know anyone who'd be interested in doing that.
It's easily done when you're watching in real time, and there's not so many connections that they can't be viewed individually. But if I was Greg Berlanti, I might have Netflix offer an "Arrowverse" binge where you watch in the correct timeline order.
Of course, even watching by airdate wouldn't necessarily work as we've seen that Arrow and Flash aren't even synced up now.
I don't know what the filming schedule was like, compared to Arrow's. Does anyone know if Savage's comment about Laurel was supposed to reference her death, or was he just randomly threatening family members again?
It is weird to me that nobody on The Flash has reacted to her death. Obviously, they will reference it at some point, but it is still weird. A part of their extended team died. When Buffy died, Willow showed up on Angel to tell people.
If Caitlin was being held hostage, Barry was powerless, Zoom was on the loose and the city was vulnerable, it would have been the perfect time to drop that bomb. One more thing to add to the list, driving Barry or even Cisco to lose it for a minute. But of course, Barry being powerless would kill that continuity. Man, what a mess.
1. I did think the reference to Laurel was supposed to be about her death. I thought I read that it'd be referenced on LoT, but I don't think that was it.
2. I think Flash is behind, but again, there needs to be more communication between the teams. I don't think there's any reason, especially if Flash is *behind* Arrow, for them not to have called Team Arrow to help while Barry is powerless. I know they want to handle it, but it's horribly irresponsible to not at least call.
I was thinking the same thing about Diggle, not calling Barry or any of the other people they know, when Andy was hunting them. I mean, his baby was in danger!
Maybe I will assume that he tried, bit it wasn't an option.
Well, I know they can't have help every week, but they should at least be talking about it. I mean even name-dropping Roy as an option is something they should be doing.
It's just weird when Barry is running around with no powers and Team Arrow is going on vacation the same week. I know they aren't synced but it's still weird.
I'm sorta tired of the openings to the Berlanti shows. Do we really need to be reminded who the main character(s) is/are in all these shows?
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