2,521

(430 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Transmodiar's counterpart in THE X-FILES fandom at Eat the Corn and I have been chatting a bit. He thinks that THE X-FILES would have best ended with Season 7, an open-ended non-conclusion where Mulder is abducted by aliens and Scully is pregnant.

I take the view that THE X-FILES really only ever had one chance to pay off its alien invasion arc, a storyline that called for widescreen spectacle, mass destruction, enormous setpieces, extensive computer generated effects and a final conclusion on a scale well beyond the budget of a FOX procedural television series. That chance was with the X-FILES feature film. When Chris Carter failed to capitalize on that opportunity for a finale, he ensured that THE X-FILES would never be able to tell a story that it couldn't ever afford to show onscreen on a 90s TV series.

I remarked that THE X-FILES would inevitably be rebooted. And that ideally, Chris Carter would be as involved in the reboot as he was in the IDW comics where his name came first on all the covers and he talked about it at conventions and in interviews -- but ultimately, it was the comic book writer(s) doing all the work and Carter's writing credit was merely to indicate that he had looked over the scripts without contributing anything else to them.

But it shows by contrast how showrunners on SUPERGIRL, THE FLASH and ARROW have taken the approach that future seasons are not ensured and how they don't want to spend the episodes they have teasing stories they might not get to tell. Instead, they make sure to tell the stories they have ambitions to tell upfront.

That's why SUPERGIRL and THE FLASH established the teams by the first episode without waiting a season to let all the cast members in on the secret identities. That's why Supergirl faced her aunt and the Flash faced his mother's murderer by the Season 1 finale. They didn't want to only offer foreshadowing building to what could potentially be nothing; they ensured that each season had a beginning, a middle and an end, and if there were to be a subsequent season, there would be another beginning, middle and end.

Eat the Corn, however, suggests that THE X-FILES' finale for Colonization could have been more akin to the low budget horror movie SCANNERS, which I have not seen and therefore, that has paused the conversation until I see it. It is in my queue.

2,522

(89 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I have this bag of pennies I've been longing to imbed into the back of a theatre texter's neck.

Why do you carry $200 cash? Isn't that a bit much to have as you wander the streets? Do you use it to bribe informants to find celebrities to photograph? Did Allison Mack invite you to join her cult?

2,523

(430 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm told Chris Carter has been giving away X-FILES props that he'd been keeping since 1993. Carter seems like he's done with the show.

2,524

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

AQUAMAN didn't take place in the same universe as JUSTICE LEAGUE. JUSTICE LEAGUE had Arthur saying his mother abandoned him as an infant on his father's doorstep. AQUAMAN has Arthur saying his mother raised him for several years but was then attacked and presumed dead. Warner Bros. is taking the view that each film has its own continuity even if they use some of the same actors. Or director James Wan simply decided to ignore JUSTICE LEAGUE, but the effect is the same.

Ezra Miller talked about how THE FLASH movie was not just about the DC Extended Universe, but about how the Flash exists in a multiverse. I think the simplest solution: do a FLASH movie with a new actor, have him get a glimpse of the multiverse where a clip of Ezra Miller, John Wesley Shipp and Grant Gustin pass by and have someone narrate that reality takes on different forms. No further explanation is really needed; the DC Extended Universe has become a mix and match playset called the Worlds of DC rather than a clearly defined continuity.

If they want to keep Billy Crudup as Henry Allen but feature Michael Keaton as the mentor to a Barry played by Ben Wishaw or Jaleel White or Matt Smith or Jaden Smith or Corey Fogelmanis or Deron Horton or Ben Schwartz or Donald Glover, they can do that. Commissioner Gordon has gone from being JK Simmons to Jeffrey Wright.

2,525

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'd be happy for Michael Keaton to read the phone book in a movie. To play Batman again? He's not my favourite, but if it makes people happy and makes the DC movies good, then I say go for it. Personally, I'd rather they just keep going with Robert Pattinson and have Pattinson appear in a FLASH movie.

But I'm currently operating on the view that THE FLASH will never, ever, ever be made. That if they were going to make it, they would have by now. That Ezra Miller is just done and even if Ezra Miller isn't done, I am done with him.

I seriously doubt that Ezra Miller is going to play the Flash ever again. But if I am wrong, I will write you another SLIDERS REBORN script where Rembrandt confronts Colonel Rickman and the sliders do what they should have done in the first place.

Torme had an idea for an episode where the teaser shows the sliders emerging from the vortex to find a Ku Klux Klan ceremony of white hooded figures. Rembrandt steps backwards to hide. Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo are confronted by a Klansman who rips off the hood to reveal a black man underneath.

I don't know if that could work. Part of the problem was the FOX Network. They were resistant to having Wade kiss Wilkins (the black leader of the Revolution in the Pilot), saying it could offend racists. They were either racist themselves or unwilling to court the wrath of racists.

The other issue is one of imagery and this is something mass media writers struggle with. Often, a story demands onscreen actions that are ill-advised for publication or broadcast whether it's showing black men as dangerous across the board in a parallel universe where blacks were put in a position of white supremacy or other content. It's possible Torme had a more "Weaker Sex" style approach where whites are regarded as prone to violence, intellectually inferior and treated as criminals on sight just as "Weaker Sex" presented men as overemotional, flighty, distractable, and treated as servants and status symbols. But opening with a KKK gathering suggests that it is a story of violence and while Torme would often wrongfoot and misdirect and did not care for SLIDERS stories driven by action, the risk is there.

SUPERNATURAL, in the confrontation with the Men of Letters, had Sam Winchester holding Hess, the female leader at gunpoint. But SUPERNATURAL didn't want to show Sam shooting a woman to death even if she'd killed many of his friends and brainwashed his mother and even though Sam would be fully justified in executing a woman who'd declared bloody war on him and his and who would inevitably escape and come after him again. SUPERNATURAL had Hess pull a gun on Sam before Sam shot her; they didn't want the image of Sam killing an unarmed woman onscreen.

SUPERNATURAL also had an episode where Dean and Jack are hunting down Harper, a lady serial killer who lures potential boyfriends and then has her zombie paramour kill and eat them. In the final confrontation, Jack and Dean are dodging the zombie and have a clear shot on Harper but inexplicably fail to open fire -- partially because the writers hoped to bring Harper back for another run-in with Jack, but largely because Harper is a cute girl.

Ultimately, SUPERNATURAL doesn't want to create images of heroic men killing women. And I don't think SLIDERS wants to create images of black men being trounced by white heroes.

Torme's idea would have been very difficult to realize. That said, this is Torme. I'd like to see Temporal Flux take a crack at this story idea. I'm sure it would have been better than the extremely mediocre "California Reich."

My niece said that I could be a part of her social bubble after months of having lunch on opposite sides of her deck or porch. I brought over a raw chicken (which I'd seasoned) and some raw vegetables, planning to roast the chicken and grill the vegetables. Then I mentioned having found a cast iron frying pan in my storage space and how that was annoying because I'd recently bought a new cast iron frying pan. She asked if she could have the cast iron frying pan and I said that I would drive home to get it, but she would have to handle the cooking. I returned a half-hour later to find that my plans for a roast chicken and a side of grilled vegetables had been converted into a chicken and vegetable stir fry with peanut and soy sauce.

I've never written teleplays for a TV show, but I'm told that this is exactly what it's like to write for TV.

2,528

(89 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Are they still using physical currency in America?

In 2017, I was at a coffee shop with my niece and attempted to pay for the two coffees with bills and three pennies. The cashier SHOVED the three copper coins back at me. "Pennies have been out of circulation for three years!" she exclaimed at me. "Three years!" My niece laughed at me. I later threw the two of the pennies at a man in a movie theatre who was texting in the middle of the film, hitting him once in the back of the head and once in the neck. The kid confiscated the third one before I could throw it.

**

I've thought about TV as escapism and I understand that, but personally, it's not what I watch TV to find. I watch TV for inspiration and aspiration. To me, BROOKLYN NINE NINE is a half-hour sitcom about goofy police detectives and represents what policing should be. Never has BROOKLYN NINE NINE been declared more out of style by the viewing public. Even the actors are ashamed to be associated with police; they have been pooling their salaries to bail out protesters as an apology for making small fortunes playing the most disliked professional class in America.

This is a time when police are viewed as violent, delusional thugs. They think their public image shouldn't suffer from being caught on video as they randomly spraying pedestrians and front porches with tear gas and rubber bullets. They think they can wash it all away with a speech where a police officer rants that their violent savagery recorded on camera shouldn't be judged for the violent savagery reflected on camera.

There's been a lot of fan chatter that Season 8 of BROOKLYN NINE NINE should, without explanation, show the cast now working at a post office or a hospital or a newspaper or a high school. That the charm of the characters doesn't require that they be police officers because the cast of BROOKLYN NINE NINE shouldn't be cops. That people as good as Jake, Amy, Terry, Boyle, Holt, Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo would never be cops.

I've been watching BROOKLYN NINE NINE for years and I have never seen such lovable cops in a show with such suspicion, disdain, alarm, distaste and frustration with the institution of police. Every police officer outside the regular cast is generally portrayed as corrupt. Prone to abusing their power for political or financial gain. In league with various criminals. Or at best too inept to do any serious harm.

On BROOKLYN NINE NINE, cops who aren't in the Nine Nine are like the ones we're seeing all over social media these days. The black Sergeant Terry is arrested by a non-Nine Nine cop for walking down the street outside his house. Captain Raymond Holt is constantly suffering for being black and gay. Essentially, the Nine Nine is Temporal Flux in a world of David Peckinpahs.

The Nine Nine precinct is perpetually at odds with the rest of the New York Police Department. In Season 6, the Nine Nine declares war on the NYPD. Throughout all this, the cast of the Nine Nine insist on being the best people they can be and being the best crimefighters they can be even when the police in the city around them are not.

There's a lot of talk about BROOKLYN NINE NINE changing itself in Season 8 to address how TV no longer wants to glamourize police. But BROOKLYN NINE NINE has never offered an escape into a world where all police are great; it was a journey into one precinct where these dysfunctional people were great at their police jobs and surrounded by the police we see today on YouTube and Twitter as filmed by bystanders. So my hope is that BROOKLYN NINE NINE simply keeps doing what it's doing.

I want to see the cast of BROOKLYN NINE NINE continue working at being funny and good even as they have to practice social distancing and wear masks. I want the cast facing down an absence of protective equipment and facing down their union leader whom they hold in contempt. I want to the Nine Nine struggle with cops now being loathed and despised when the Nine Nine represent the best of what police can be and make the audience laugh in the face of it all.

I don't want BROOKLYN NINE NINE to offer an escape from reality. I want BROOKLYN NINE NINE to keep facing down reality, showing what police are but also what they *should* be and what policing should aspire to become.

2,529

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

So... nationally, police officers have revealed themselves incapable of addressing any situation without pointless brutality and violence upon unarmed individuals to the point of attacking a 75 year old man trying to return a helmet to them. Even when these police are aware that their actions are being filmed and broadcast globally, they have no ability to behave otherwise.

This is a deeply uncomfortable thing for me to say because I have friends who are like the cast of BROOKLYN NINE NINE. Individually, I know police officers and police force staffers who are like Jake and Amy. Anecdotally, every police officer I've met has helped me with the competence and ability of Holt and Terry. I have always been treated with kindness and care by police and law enforcement workers, some of whom are reading this.

Saying "defund the police" feels like I'm attacking my friends' livelihoods and all I can say is that the cops and cop-adjacent people I personally know are the solution, not the problem. They are good individuals often in good offices that exist within a badly and systemically corrupt institution where police seem answerable to nobody thanks to qualified immunity and a culture of internally protecting any officer from murder and assault charges.

The cops I know aren't deranged thugs who got a badge and a gun to bully with impunity, but they're not all cops. Every cop I like is proving to be an outlier.

I cannot stress enough in the name of Quinn's cat, Wade's teddy bear, Rembrandt's car and Arturo's bow tie that the opinions of ireactions are not those of Sliders.tv.

2,530

(89 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The future of kissing and sex scenes on tv: dolls and trick editing.

https://www.cracked.com/article_28013_s … dolls.html

2,531

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm more aligned with Slider_Quinn21, although TF and Transmodiar are right to note that we shouldn't confuse being against Trump with being for anything meaningful or worthwhile.

I've posted this earlier, but North Americans citizens generally expect their political candidates to represent them when Slate.com suggests viewing candidates as choosing an opponent.

Slate.com wrote:

No one candidate will ever be a perfect leader in any movement’s eyes. Activists accept they’ll have to put political pressure on—and occasionally argue with—whoever wins the election.

The question, for them, is which elected official they’d rather be up against, considering the respective communities the candidates are beholden to and their respective abilities to be swayed. Would Ocasio-Cortez rather push Trump to halt deportations, or Biden? Would #MeToo activists rather mobilize for sexual harassment legislation under a Trump administration, or a Biden one? It’s not about accepting a lesser of two evils. It’s about choosing an opponent.

The choosing-an-opponent framework doesn’t require any moral concessions or wavering on values, because there’s no wholesale acceptance involved. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 … -2020.html

Also, The Atlantic observed that Biden's concept of the presidency is a step back to what the role was designed to be: "president" was devised as a deliberately unthreatening term for a world leader when most world leaders were kings or emperors. A president, in the American framework, was meant to preside over national affairs, set the tone and delegate appropriately and accordingly. A president was not a ruler but rather a temp. A contract staffer whose job was to be a figurehead for a broad coalition of often contradictory interests. This eroded severely under Bush II and Obama acquiring executive powers that Trump inherited. Biden's vision for his presidency is clearly one where he is the ceremonial leader of a chosen team of staffers and advisors that he would like to include Bernie Sanders, Elizabeth Warren, Kamala Harris, Andrew Yang, Gretchen Whitmer and maybe Stacy Abrams.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archi … ng/609769/

I'm not a Republican, but like most Republicans who aren't Trumpists, I could tolerate Biden. He's the opponent I'd want to have if seeking universal basic income and health care, police reform, an end to student debt, a sensible federal response to COVID-19, investment in the UN, NATO and the World Health Organization -- I could live with choosing him as the alternative to the worst. Joe Biden. The best choice. Also the only choice. I had to check to be sure; Yang seemed smart; he dropped out. A presidency of nothing is preferable to a presidency of malevolence.

2,532

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Biden is not the candidate I wanted.

But Trump has to go.

2,533

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

How much does voter suppression warp Slider_Quinn21's calculations?

(I don't know.)

2,534

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

But, in your view, neither Trump nor Biden are concerned by the lack of registration?

I got an email recently asking if I collaborated with Tracy Torme when writing the "Slide Effects" screenplay based on his story idea.
https://earthprime.com/etcetera/slide-effects-2 The short answer is no and putting Tracy Torme on the title page is somewhat deceptive. (My email writer can stop reading now. Haha!)

Torme told me his story idea in 2000 and I dismissed it until 2011 when I wrote it. In addition, the script as it stands is severely contradictory to his wishes and style. It is not the script Torme would have written nor does it achieve the goals he would have wanted to accomplish with his concept. But it's his idea; while I have some gifts for writing stories about *the* sliders, I simply don't have the talent of coming up with Torme's simple, straightforward, elegant, beautiful means of restoring Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo in his hypothetical Season 4 premiere.

Having Quinn wake up to find that time has been rewound to the Pilot is the perfect way to open a new season of SLIDERS where a lot of confusing events have taken place in the previous season(s). Finding Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo alive and well in this scenario is ideal. Revealing that the situation is a Kromagg trick along with all the episodes produced during Torme's absence from the show is very clever and a little mischievous.

The thing about "Slide Effects" as Torme conceived it: he came up with the idea before the cast was mutilated, so he wasn't trying to come up with a story to fix everything that went wrong. He just wanted a season premiere that would re-establish the characters and the concept; he didn't imagine this premiere coming after all the characters and the concept had been warped and twisted and broken. And had he actually produced it, it's unlikely Torme would have consented to watch the episodes he'd missed, so there would have been no specific references to the episodes he was removing from continuity.

The "Slide Effects" script has 'clips' from episodes of Seasons 3 - 5 with the sliders of Season 2 reacting to them. There's a specific explanation for the continuity gaffes. There's an explanation for Quinn's odd behaviour in "Mother and Child." It's very clearly a psychodrama produced by an upset fan demanding an in-universe explanation for real world negligence, and I simply don't see Torme (or any professional TV producer) making television that exists to comment on other television so specifically.

I think Torme would have, instead, focused on the characterization: what if Quinn is tempted to stay in this perfect simulation of home and to let his friends have the illusion of having never been away? What if the Kromaggs offer Quinn this conclusion to the sliders' journey instead of whatever horrors may await them -- in exchange for some aspect of the sliding equation that will further empower the Dynasty? And what if Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo refuse, saying that while they miss home, sliding has made them stronger, smarter, kinder, better -- and they wouldn't trade their friendships and adventures for a facsimile?

Also, the "Slide Effects" script ultimately declares that everything after "As Time Goes By" was part of the Kromagg simulation and that Quinn had the tracking device in his brain. This is fundamentally at odds with Torme's wishes; he would have rewound time to after "The Guardian" and he believed the tracking device was in Arturo, not Quinn. I decided to change that because I wanted the implant to be the reason why Quinn was experiencing Seasons 3 - 5 and because, if "Slide Effects" were the last SLIDERS story, the unfinished threads of Logan St. Clair and the Professor's illness would no longer be a factor.

It's not inaccurate to have Torme's name on "Slide Effects," but I do consider it a degree of false advertising because it suggests that Torme would have written or would approve of this version of his story. I did that because, in 1996, after Captain Kirk had been killed off, there was a STAR TREK novel called THE RETURN which resurrected the character. It would have been dismissed as a meaningless STAR TREK novel like the 40 - 50 published every year, but THE RETURN had significance because it was STAR TREK: THE RETURN BY WILLIAM SHATNER.

While STAR TREK novels are not canon, Shatner's name gave THE RETURN weight even though in reality, the novel was written by veteran TREK novelists Garfield and Judith Reeves-Stevens based on phone calls with Shatner who would read the manuscript before it was published -- and I was unquestionably stealing that marketing by using a memory of an AOL Instant Messenger chat session with Torme, knowing that TRACY TORME'S SLIDE EFFECTS grabbed more attention than IREACTIONS' SLIDERS FANFIC.

I'm actually seeing a lot of this sort of crediting in post-"Slide Effects" spin-off media with other franchises. Two years after "Slide Effects," comic book publisher IDW announced THE X-FILES: SEASON 10, a comic book continuation with series creator Chris Carter's name on the covers, given top billing and suggesting that he was writing the comics. In reality, the comics were scripted by comic veteran Joe Harris and Carter would review the scripts at most. Carter vetoed one element of the comics -- the SEASON 10 villain was originally a teenaged William Mulder. Carter asked that the comics not use William and the writer complied.

Later, the FOX Network commissioned a tenth television season of THE X-FILES which flatly ignored the comic books and made it clear that the only 'canon' was on TV. IDW would relaunch THE X-FILES comics with the same writer, now doing standalone tie-ins to the TV SEASON 10 and continued to put Carter's name first on the cover -- but the SEASON 10 comics being ignored by the TV's tenth season made it clear that the name was meaningless marketing.

Carter's name on the X-FILES comics, like Torme's name on the "Slide Effects" script, certainly suggested some legitimacy to the material. The IDW comics publisher understood that fans would only engage with the content if it were presented as an actual, approved continuation to THE X-FILES.

I'm seeing a lot of that now even after THE X-FILES comics imploded. The BUFFY comics were steered by Joss Whedon working with writers from the TV show, but the finale series, BUFFY: THE RECKONING, was by Whedon's own admission largely written by Christos Gage with Whedon merely polishing the scripts after Gage was done.

A recent run of FIREFLY comic books boasted the WHEDON writing credit on the covers. The writer was Joss Whedon's brother, Zack, although Joss himself did review the material. Whedon's name is prominent on the subsequent comics written by Greg Pak and he is billed as overseeing the FIREFLY novels even though writers James Lovecraft and Tim Lebbon are the ones who really write them. The name sells the product. In some ways, the name is somewhat deceitful, but it's also part of the game. It's an invitation to let fans accept the tie-in as canonical while leaving their decision to their own discretion.

Anyway. In the next few days, I am going to revise the "Slide Effects" title page to make it clear that this is not a script that Torme wrote or would write, but that the idea is his and his alone.

2,536

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Well, there's some hope that maybe Georgia was another call to action:

https://www.thenation.com/article/polit … te-recall/
https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/16/politics … index.html

2,537

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I am really worried about voter purges and voter suppression in November.

I finished CASTLE, sort of. Amazon Prime only has seven of the eight seasons. But the seventh season finale ends with Castle solving the first murder mystery he ever encountered and a scene where all the cast members are assembled at a writers' awards ceremony as Castle gives a speech about how much all his co-stars mean to him and it concludes with everyone running off to deal with a new murder which, to me, seems like a pretty definitive ending.

I think what I like most about CASTLE is something very much like SLIDERS. Castle addresses every case like it's a story, but he's not sure what kind of story it is, what genre it's set in and what the formula is for each one. It's an absurd approach to crime solving that only works for him. Sometimes that genre is the soap opera or the conspiracy thriller or the espionage drama or the space opera or the heist. One standout episode is "Undead Again" where a murder suspect is caught on security video. The suspect looks like a decaying corpse. "It's a zombie!" Castle exclaims gleefully. "Our killer's a zombie!"

As Detective Beckett tries to track down the perpetrator and refuses to even consider the notion of zombies, Castle declares that the zombie apocalypse is upon them as they encounter witnesses who have been scratched by the suspect and keeping themselves locked up. Castle and Beckett follow the evidence to a lonely New York City street at night only to find themselves surrounded by a crowd of moaning, malicious corpses closing in on them and growling with a fervent hunger for their flesh and the viewer will note that CASTLE has never explicitly ruled out the supernatural in its show.

Castle is terrified. Beckett snaps at the crowd, "NYPD! Stop acting like zombies!" The crowd stops; they are cosplayers engaged in a roleplaying game. The killer is revealed to have been a cosplayer. Another police officer later whispers to Castle, "Do you really believe in zombies?" Castle whispers back, "No. You know what I do believe in? Driving Beckett crazy."

That's something I've always really enjoyed about the best SLIDERS episodes and Steven Moffat's DOCTOR WHO and CASTLE too, even though they're totally different shows. They often leave the audience unsure as to what kind of story they're watching and don't resolve that until the middle.

2,539

(89 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Here's another question that may or may not belong in this thread:

Should TV productions be producing episodes where characters get in physical fights, shake hands, sit in close proximity together, eat in restaurants and take part in large crowd scenes? Because any TV show that does this is suggesting that it exists in a world where COVID-19 doesn't exist and that is simply not the case. I don't know if COVID-19 hit the Arrowverse, but it definitely hit the worlds of BROOKLYN NINE NINE and PARKS AND RECREATION and probably the world of Lifetime's YOU and it could be grossly irresponsible to have characters acting like viral transmission's no longer a concern.

I used to go to restaurants with my favourite actresses; now we're eating dinner over Zoom. I used to clock in at a busy bullpen; now I'm working from home. Is it right to show Team Flash heading down to Jitters or Team Supergirl hosting game night and running around a bustling bullpen in Catco or a foot-traffic heavy command centre at the DEO?

A lot of SLIDERS revival ideas were often about rewinding the clock back to 1996 and I always thought that was wrong for SLIDERS. SLIDERS should addressing today's world, not the 90s. SLIDERS should never be a period piece and all of these TV shows may be perpetuating the world of 2019 which is recognizably not 2020.

https://trekmovie.com/2020/06/11/interv … rn-burner/

ORVILLE update!

2,541

(3 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

My guess — guess — is that there was some problem with the microphone they were using to record her dialogue, maybe a short or a blown connection in the boom mic, and they either didn’t notice or didn’t care and left it to the sound editors to resolve. It seems quite common in the latter half of the series: Maggie attacking a bar patron in “Breeder” had no sound effects, Robert Floyd was inexplicably not tasked with recording Quinn’s “Go, go!” in “Unstuck Man.”

Another thing about the Sci-Fi years that irks me: any time we see a closeup of an object like Wade’s necklace in “Genesis,” it’s in a frame-skipping, choppy shot as though they failed to leave the camera running for the full duration needed and had to slow it down to have it onscreen for longer.

2,542

(89 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

https://youtu.be/cQ54GDm1eL0

This is a deepfake of Obama swearing. The technology is there if they want to have a rotating team of self-isolating body doubles perform the motions so that Grant Gustin and Candice Patton can kiss on FLASH. There are other examples I’ve read about where celebrity faces are grafted onto the bodies of adult performers, but I can’t give you examples because I don’t watch porn. I’m not against it, I just feel they don’t make it for me.

2,543

(89 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I wonder if TV would have to have body double workers. For THE FLASH, maybe you'd hire a number of body doubles for Grant Gustin and Candice Patton who agree to social distancing and constant testing for the duration of the filming block. They perform any physical intimacy for filming and then deepfake technology is used to replace their faces with the likeness of the lead actors.

Effects are very much on the rise in TV and not just for science fiction and fantasy dramas. I recently saw a visual effects reel for PARKS AND RECREATION, a half-hour sitcom about people working in government. https://www.reddit.com/r/PandR/comments … l_effects/

WHY would this show need special effects, you might ask? Isn't it an office drama? The effects reel shows that most of the crowd scenes were created via computer effects, a more advanced effect of the doubling/editing used in "A Current Affair" for the president's press conference. Much of the background of the City Hall building interiors were apparently a green sheet with a lot of foot traffic and surroundings put in later.

What looked like expensive location filming in Washington, DC and various national parks and an aquarium were apparently shots with painstakingly recomposited backgrounds. All the outdoor storm conditions on camera were computer additions to shots filmed on indoor stages. Even when there was location, effects added all the birds and assorted wildlife in post. And no one really drives a car on TV these days.

2,544

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

They're not defending him publicly. All Grant Gustin has had to say is, "Words matter." But serial killers who mutilate and rape women generally don't boast about it on social media except in delusional incel fantasies. I'm settling on the theory that Sawyer thought the internet was like GRAND THEFT AUTO; a video game that wasn't real. TF could probably make an excellent SLIDERS story out of this and we could call it "A Thousand Deaths."

If THE FLASH and all Arrowverse shows hadn't already been rocked by one horrific sexual scandal with noted sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg, things could have been different. Adult Swim did some effective PR work when an old video of Dan Harmon performing the rape of an infant (a plastic doll) was shown online, saying, “The offensive content of Dan’s 2009 video that recently surfaced demonstrates poor judgement and does not reflect the type of content we seek out. Dan recognized his mistake at the time and has apologized. He understands there is no place for this type of content here at Adult Swim.”

So, here's some free public relations work for Sawyer from me. He could say: "I'm very sorry for those horrible posts. When I wrote those comments, I thought of the internet as being separate from real life where my online persona was a digital puppet that I could have say ridiculous and hurtful things that that would only be upsetting in the separate realm of the internet. I didn't consider people I'd only ever know and talk to through the internet to be real, and I didn't consider my behaviour on the internet to be real either. I see now that it was a mistake that has proven thoughtless, savage and cruel because your online life and your real life are one and the same and there is no difference from saying something on Twitter and saying it in reality. I should have known that. I am ashamed. The person I was online is no longer who I want to be."

And the CW could declare:

"The offensive content of Sawyer's tweets video that recently resurfaced demonstrates poor judgement and does not reflect behaviour or content that we produce, perpetuate, endorse or tolerate among our employees. Sawyer has recognized his mistake and apologized. Sawyer will be participating in public forums on netiquette and cyberbullying to encourage our young viewers to avoid his past mistakes. He understands there is no place for this kind of behaviour here at the CW. We look forward to seeing his work in that field as well as in Season 7 of THE FLASH."

If only.

2,545

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think having my flaws and deficiencies surgically removed is a pipedream anyway. :-) But I am astonished that you think you don't know me well given your regular exposure to my neuroses and obsessions.

**

I suppose it's possible Hartley Sawyer is a serial killer who hates women. But it's more likely to me that he thought his online self only existed in the online realm, and he didn't think of it as 'real' much in the same way someone might play GRAND THEFT AUTO and not consider that real. Most people who play in that digital realm as murderous car thieves would never kill or rob in real life.

Today, there is no distinction between an online identity and a real one. I would imagine that Sawyer, an animal shelter volunteer who, as Slider_Quinn21 and TF point out, worked for three years with black castmates, is not prone to racist behaviour face to face. And maybe on a show that wasn't already rocked by one scandal that nearly brought it all down, Sawyer's job could have survived.

I have no moral high ground myself. There could be a lot of AOL Instant Messenger and MSN Messenger transcripts and email threads with my bad behaviour within. The best that can be said is that those conversations end with a apology (years later) for my intrusions and offenses and a promise that they didn't happen to anyone else.

2,546

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I wish they could have kept Sawyer on the show. Had him come out and apologize, say that he'd changed, that he would atone, that his work on THE FLASH had made him realize the person who'd made those tweets wouldn't be allowed to exist on THE FLASH. I don't wish Sawyer any ill -- but I completely respect THE FLASH's showrunner, Eric Wallace, not wanting to associate himself or his show with Sawyer any further. Wallace had his show to think of and it had already weathered one scandal. It would be foolish to think it could survive another.

Sawyer could have scrubbed his tweets; he had years to do it. He left them there.

If my shameful homophobia in the SMALLVILLE fandom where I raged against Clark/Lex shippers were still online, I'd destroy it. Why leave that there to continue to harm others?

In terms of James Gunn: his jokes were not making light of other people's suffering (although that's how they came off). Gunn was trying to present a joking version of his grief over how his teacher raped him when he was a boy. All of his rape 'jokes' were about how he was assaulted; when he dressed up as a pedophile priest, he was dressing like the man who molested him to try to control the imagery of his nightmares.

With Sawyer -- what sympathetic reasoning can there be for 'joking' about cutting off women's breasts or saying they shouldn't vote? Why good reason could there be for putting that out into the world? Nobody forced Sawyer to communicate those sentiments; I'm not sure anyone is obligated to insulate him from the blowback and consequences of saying what he said -- although I wish they could have found a way to let him pay a price but still keep his job.

If someone could operate on my brain and take away my social awkwardness and the handicaps that prevent me from writing Torme and Weiss/Temporal Flux style SLIDERS stories and the inherent misogyny that I only cast off at age 24 and my racism (I keep dating androgynous looking white women, it's a serious problem), I'd take it.

That's just me, of course.

2,547

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I don't really *know* anything about Hartley Sawyer. Why would someone think it's alright to make homophobic slurs? I can't imagine myself doing that. But as a former sexual harasser of women in college who stalked three classmates and pestered one barmaid, all when I was in university, I have to believe Sawyer's apology is genuine because otherwise, I wouldn't be able to believe in my own capacity for change.

At the same time, it's foolish and always has been to think that social media is not a platform where everything we say will not come back to haunt us, so we should never say things we wouldn't be proud to say an hour later or a year later. We should ask ourselves how it would impact us. Or how a woman or a person of colour or a member of the LGBTQ community or a prospective employer would feel if they found our words. Or if they were reproduced all over Twitter.

I don't anticipate ever being a celebrity, but if I ever became one and you investigated me, you would find creepy messages from me to women that I wrote back when I was in university. You would also find messages to them from a few years ago where I tell them that I am very sorry for stalking and harassing them and that I've befriended a lot of women and been in a lot of psychotherapy and realized how threatening and intrusive and hurtful my behaviour must have been and that I'm very sorry and ashamed. Anyone in the public eye, for their own job security, should look at everything they've put in public and if it is reprehensible, they should out themselves before someone else does it and apologize for it.

In 2013, comic book writer and artist MariNaomi blogged about how she was on a panel at a convention and a writer next to her started flirting with her inappropriately in front of an audience, making oral sex jokes about her microphone, asking her if she orgasmed when eating a mango, etc.. She didn't name him. Not even 24 hours later, prolific comic book writer Scott Lobdell made a statement to the comics press and identified himself as the harasser and apologized. It wasn't a great apology; he apologized for his humour not being understood and directed far too much of his apology to MariNaomi's husband. But he stood for his misdeed and his career survived it because he came forward himself.

Hartley Sawyer probably does not hate women or black people or gay people -- he likely just saw those areas as a place to say shocking, ridiculous things in a similar spirit that a SLIDERS fanfic writer might declare that Maggie Beckett is a wonderfully versatile character or declare that his next SLIDERS story will feature the rock star vampires, the animal human hybrids, the fat craving zombies, the underground predators, the dinosaurs, the dragon, the killer robots and the remote controlled cars that shoot lasers -- a form of humour that is based in absurd overstatement so exaggerated that it is meant to amuse.

The problem is that the subject matter Sawyer chose is treating certain segments of our society as less than human, a real world mentality that harms and even kills people every day. His jokes, however insincerely intended, were threatening and hurtful to the women, people of colour and homosexuals who might watch THE FLASH and THE FLASH desperately does not want any more accusations that could alienate their audience.

What could Sawyer do at this point? Well, his job is definitely gone. He could focus on... he seems to have a love for animal shelters, maybe he could get into that field. But his career might be over. As an actor, you have to be a chameleon; your public persona needs to be positive but also not interfere with disappearing into whatever roles you'd want to perform. Sawyer could teach acting classes. Sawyer could be an acting coach. Sawyer could do PR behind the scenes for actors and let them learn from his social media mistakes and guide them in the opposite direction.

2,548

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think Sawyer deleted his account before he was up for his now former job or he was hired during the period when noted sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg was still running the show and noted sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg was fine with ignoring Sawyer's remarks. After the massive scandal surrounding noted sexual harasser Andrew Kreisberg, the Arrowverse productions are probably in no position to have any kind of tolerance for this and have no desire to deal with this sort of public relations struggle. They don't want the optics, they don't want the trouble, they don't want to go through another round of Kreisberg antics -- they just don't want to be associated with this sort of behaviour whether years ago or days ago. They wouldn't survive it.

2,549

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Hartley Sawyer (Ralph Dibney on FLASH) has been fired from THE FLASH due to racist and misogynistic social media posts.
https://tvline.com/2020/06/08/the-flash … ic-tweets/


**

Regarding your BATWOMAN pitch: It's not that I dislike your writing or your ideas. I am simply disengaged from any season of BATWOMAN that doesn't feature Kate Kane as Batwoman and I have no enthusiasm for a follow-up on Season 1 that doesn't have Kate Kane confronting Alice, confronting her father and confronting Hush. It's just depressing for me. I just don't need this kind of grief from a TV show. I don't want to engage with a story that can ultimately only be resolved if Sabrina Lloyd / Jerry O'Connell / Ruby Rose returns to the series.

They've decided not to recast Kate Kane and move on from the character, so I'm going to move on from BATWOMAN and find another TV show to love and obsess over. I've made some contributions to the #KateKaneIsBatwoman effort on Twitter to offer a template for how fans could politely make their case to the creators without namecalling and attacks. And now, I need to just step back now lest this become another SLIDERS-level fixation for me. Unless you want to know what I think of something BATWOMAN related (yes, you, only you), I'm not going to even allow myself to think about BATWOMAN anymore unless they issue a press release in the next few months saying that, after some consideration, they feel Kate Kane is too central to the fans and show to remove and they've elected to recast Ashley Platz / Wallis Day / Brianna Hildebrand / whoever. I am just going to block it and forget about it.

I never want any show to fail and I hope it does great because if BATWOMAN succeeds, then SUPERGIRL and SUPERMAN AND LOIS and THE FLASH and LEGENDS and GREEN ARROW AND THE CANARIES (pending existence) also succeed along with every other superhero production out there. I love superheroes. But I'm not going to make myself watch anything that upsets me to this degree outside of 13 REASONS WHY and that's finally over.

2,550

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think the fact that a new character would have no connection with Alice, Jacob, Mary, Sophie, Julia and Luke is precisely why it makes absolutely no sense to remove Kate Kane from the series. It can't work.

The other problem is that the Season 1 cliffhanger left us with Jacob hunting Batwoman, 'Bruce' about to approach Kate, Sophie and Julia pairing up, Parker in the cave and looking to Kate for leadership, Luke at a degree of odds with Kate -- and if next season, Kate is just gone, there is no way the show can possibly pay off any of these arcs. Season 1 will be a pointless build to nothing. Not only are the fans of Season 1 unenthused about Season 2, they won't even want to rewatch Season 1.

I think this is a mistake and I don't doubt that Ruby Rose's sudden departure was a shock given that she was in the original Season 2 press release announcing the storylines for next year, but this is an extreme and destructive solution that will alienate existing viewers and likely repel new ones. It is a convoluted, fragmented path that will damage both the past and future of the show.

It really speaks to how what happened to SLIDERS with the cast attrition is possible with any series. Shows like ARROW, FLASH, SUPERGIRL, BROOKLYN NINE NINE, PARKS AND RECREATION and others are very fortunate to have been able to keep most of their cast together for so many years. The vetting process on those shows to choose performers who would stay seems largely successful.

Stephen Amell, Grant Gustin, Melissa Benoist, Caity Lotz, Andy Samberg and Amy Poehler were/are in it for the long haul. But that system seems to have failed with Ruby Rose and now the show and its creators are badly rattled.

2,551

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The impression I got is that if Ruby Rose shows up on the BATWOMAN set again, it's with a flamethrower and a tank of gas. It was an acrimonious departure.

My feeling is that the creators have panicked and overreacted to losing their lead actress. In trying to fill the hole left in their series, they are now burying the park entirely and they have severely misread their audience, thinking that people would consider any new performer as Kate a Ruby Rose impersonator. But in this case, it looks like the fans would accept a Kate Kane who isn't Ruby Rose, but they won't accept a Batwoman who isn't Kate Kane -- much in the same way fans would likely reject a Superman who wasn't Clark Kent or a Batman who wasn't Bruce Wayne after a mere 20 episodes of leading their own show. Fans will accept a new person as (Green) Arrow after eight years of Oliver Queen, but not before that. There has been decades of R&D in comic books to

I don't consider the creators malicious; few modern day showrunners have a David Peckinpah level of contempt for their own properties, but I think they've made a mistake.

They could change their minds; they are months and months and months from starting production on Season 2. Sonic the Hedgehog was redesigned (or un-redesigned) due to fan outcry; the Snyder Cut is being released and like BATWOMAN, these projects depend on a certain level of goodwill from a devoted audience to function. BATWOMAN is currently being flattened under a ceiling of negativity from its devotees that that any show would struggle to overcome; I can't imagine a general audience being keen on BATWOMAN when even the diehards are so adamantly and uniformly against its new direction.

2,552

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

https://comicbook.com/tv-shows/news/bat … runner-cw/

Well, we have an official statement now. Kate Kane won't be in Season 2 with a new performer. It's going to be a new character as BATWOMAN.

*sigh* I hate to dismiss any show without giving it a chance, but after SLIDERS, I'm simply not receptive to shows aborting their unfinished arcs in this fashion and I'm not in favour of a Batwoman who isn't Kate Kane. I don't know if I'll feel this way when BATWOMAN is back on the air, but right now, I'm not inclined to watch the second season.

2,553

(686 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I finished the fourth and final season of 13 REASONS WHY.

It's finally over.

2,554

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

Every superhero TV news outlet is reporting that a new character will become Batwoman, basing this on a leaked casting notice for a "Ryan Wilder" who will take over from Kate Kane who will not be recast.

https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-new-charac … ruby-rose/

I'm astonished. And I'm also confused as to the sourcing because the source for this is a Reddit posting (now deleted) with this casting notice -- and casting notices are notoriously deceptive, always altering the details to avoid leakage. However, this casting notice is being taken as correct and accurate in declaring that this Ryan Wilder character will replace Ruby Rose's Kate Kane as Batwoman. There is no other source for this information other than the deleted Reddit post. There is no statement from the studio or creative team. There is only the Reddit posting of a casting notice for a new character who will be the new Batwoman.

Yet, The Hollywood Reporter and Entertainment Weekly seem to think this is accurate, so maybe they know something I don't?

I've been scanning Twitter and Reddit and various BATWOMAN fan sites to gauge fan reaction to the idea that Season 2 will have a new character become Batwoman with no further appearances from Kate Kane who will simply be gone from the show.

The reactions are uniformly negative except from those who didn't like BATWOMAN in the first place. The fans are very upset. They weathered losing Ruby Rose, but losing the comfort that Kate Kane would continue without Rose seems to have been a breaking point. I've never seen a fanbase so united on anything except on the Sci-Fi forum when "Requiem" first aired.

When you fall in a hole, the most important thing to do is stop digging. BATWOMAN fell into a hole when Ruby Rose left. This story suggests the show is digging itself deeper -- but given that Arrowverse creators are generally not seeking to alienate their viewers and sabotage their properties and have made no official comment on this news, I have to think that we're not getting the full story here.

It's not my favourite episode. It didn't have enough of Kate and Castle arguing. But over six seasons, CASTLE's cast had endeared themselves to me. Esposito and Ryan feel so familiar and I was worried to see them surrounded by flames and running out of air. Esposito's showboating every time he has an audience is hilarious. Kevin Ryan modelling his hair and clothes on Castle is really funny.

I can't remember the plot of this episode in the slightest or who the villain was, but I was happy to see my buddies running around bickering, chattering, fighting crime and not beating up every civilian of colour in sight like actual New York City police officers.

I guess you would say that I am easily satisfied, but I've skimmed studies that say that people who watch television often experience the same neurological activity that the brain manifests when the person is spending time with friends.

2,556

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Well, replacements have been attempted and there are decades worth of lessons from DC smacking us in the face of how it just never works to act like the costume and the codename are all that matter with a superhero. Barry Allen was replaced by Wally West, Oliver Queen by Connor Hawke, Hal Jordan by John Stewart/Guy Gardner/Kyle Rayner, Peter Parker by Ben Reilly -- but over time, it became clear that the identity behind the costume and codename were just as essential because that was where the central elements of the character's mythology took hold.

While Jay Garrick was the first Flash and Alan Scott was the first Green Lantern, it was with their successors that the Flash's mythos of superspeed and Green Lantern's mythos of the Green Lantern Corps fully solidifed and made them cultural icons. Kate Kane is the same; she isn't the first Batwoman, but she was the first to become enduring and immortal due to her military background, sexual orientation and caustic but sensitive characterization. And the replacements/predecessors are still around these days -- but they're the supporting cast. They're the incumbents' predecessors or trainees.

Marvel has had some fun with temporarily replacing Steve Rogers with Bucky and Peter Parker with Miles Morales -- but those were deliberately made temporary, giving the replacements a spotlight before shifting them into new roles and restoring the original. And that isn't an option of BATWOMAN goes the route of having Kate Kane go missing and having the characters search for her; like Wade in Season 4 and Quinn in Season 5, that's a road to nowhere. We all knew Sabrina and Jerry wouldn't be back and we all know Ruby Rose, having walked out on a 5 - 6 year contract, is unlikely to ever return to that set for as long as she lives.

I can see why someone might feel that Ruby Rose is too unique and unusual to be replaced, that finding someone like her or with their own interpretation that can match up is impossible -- but I think it'd be better to try and fail and only then attempt the generational approach than to do it in Season 2 when Season 1 wasn't even properly completed.

I don't know what the CW and WB are trying to pull off with this feint, but if this is all there is too it -- replacing Kate Kane with 'Ryan Wilder' -- well, history indicates that it didn't work for Green Lantern and the Flash and Spider-Man and it especially won't work on TV when we've only had one incomplete season with Kate Kane. I don't know what Dries and Berlanti and the rest are playing at, but I've never seen a fanbase so uniformly aligned in declaring that they would prefer a recast.

The entire creative team are not responding due to only posting #BlackLivesMatter material, so I wonder what tomorrow will bring. Hopefully an announcement about Wallis Day.

Eeeeeeek. Anyway. All this makes me grateful that the casts of THE FLASH and SUPERGIRL and ARROW and LEGENDS ultimately liked each other, enjoyed their work and were willing (if not always ecstastic) to stay on their shows and mostly stick together.

**

Here's another question: why would a casting sheet post the information about replacing Kate Kane so plainly without obscuring the details in case someone took a screenshot and shared it on Reddit? Why would the production make this information so readily available and easy to redistribute in advance of an official announcement?

This is why I'm so suspicious of this story and think it, if not inaccurate, then incomplete and a fragment of the full story.

2,557

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

If this is true -- and I don't know if it is because leaked casting sheets are generally unreliable and meant to obscure actual details -- this doesn't make sense. I know you weren't watching BATWOMAN, but the show is very carefully structured around Kate Kane and her relationships while living in the shadow of Bruce Wayne, her childhood confidante and friend. With the end of the truncated first season, all of Kate's arcs were up in the air: she reveres Bruce Wayne and is trying to live up to him and is about to be exploited by a villain who is impersonating Bruce and plans to exploit Kate's relationship with the real Bruce Wayne. She is engaged in a battle of wills with her twin sister, Alice. She is, in her Batwoman identity, at war with her father, Jacob Kane, the leader of Gotham City's primary law enforcement agency, the Crows, who have declared Batwoman an enemy of Gotham. She is dismayed to learn that her ex-girlfriend, Sophie, has started dating Kate's other ex-girlfriend, Julia. She is struggling to reconcile a schism with Luke Fox, her tech support worker and her main connection to the legacy of an absent Batman. She has welcomed a troubled teenaged girl into the Batcave. She is contending with a mass escape from Arkham Asylum.

If BATWOMAN opens with a new person as Batwoman and Kate Kane just gone, all these arcs are effectively jettisoned. There is no reason to maintain the existing cast as they were on the show due to their relationship with Kate Kane. It makes no sense not to simply recast Kate; by throwing away the character, the show is dismissing the fans they already have and the arcs they spent a whole season building, arcs they could sustain and continue and resolve if they just found themselves another Kate. Ruby Rose is a unique performer, but she is only a performer.

Also, the generational replacement tactic has never worked and wouldn't work here when the show is so defined by Kate's relationships and arcs, all of which ended in a state of flux. There would be no exit story for Kate; she'd have vanished without closure. The villain of Alice, defined by her sisterly bond and enmity with Kate, would have no reason to exist. Sophie and Julia, Kate's exes and allies, would have no reason to be around. The Kate Kane character captured the imagination of the public long before Ruby Rose played her; it is crazy to think that the TV show can just throw some new name and character into the suit and expect that to have the same stature and meaning; it'd be like expecting the Inhumans to replace the X-Men.

I think that this is a huge mistake if it's even true, and I don't know if it's true because it makes no sense to me that the CW would allow this news to be leaked in a casting sheet to be posted on Reddit where the story was first reported. If the story is true, I think it at least has to be incomplete because this is a route where BATWOMAN would effectively alienate its existing audience and seriously overcomplicate its own narrative for no upside whatsoever. Losing Ruby Rose put BATWOMAN in a hole. Refusing to recast her is just digging in deeper.

It's crazy. And because the CW and Greg Berlanti and Caroline Dries and the Arrowverse gang aren't prone to self-sabotaging their own properties, I assume this isn't the whole story.

2,558

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Every superhero TV news outlet is reporting that a new character will become Batwoman, basing this on a leaked casting notice for a "Ryan Wilder" who will take over from Kate Kane who will not be recast.

https://www.cbr.com/batwoman-new-charac … ruby-rose/

I'm astonished. And I'm also confused as to the sourcing because the source for this is a Reddit posting (now deleted) with this casting notice -- and casting notices are notoriously deceptive, always altering the details to avoid leakage. However, this casting notice is being taken as correct and accurate in declaring that this Ryan Wilder character will replace Ruby Rose's Kate Kane as Batwoman. There is no other source for this information other than the deleted Reddit post. There is no statement from the studio or creative team. There is only the Reddit posting of a casting notice for a new character who will be the new Batwoman.

Yet, The Hollywood Reporter and Entertainment Weekly seem to think this is accurate, so maybe they know something I don't?

2,559

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Grizzlor wrote:
TemporalFlux wrote:
ireactions wrote:

Long time Republican campaigner Steve Schmidt, who is responsible for Sarah Palin, renounced the Republican party after Trump and pinned a lengthy repudiation on his Twitter account at https://twitter.com/steveschmidtses -- and showed that it's okay to admit when we've made a mistake.

Just an aside regarding Schmidt’s tweet, but it’s rare to see someone mention that it’s been almost exactly 29.7 years since they did something.  He missed the slide all those years ago and has been stuck on that world waiting.

Wait wuhhhhhhhhhh?

TF is referring to the text of Mr. Schmidt's tweets on June 20, 2018:

Steve Schmidt wrote:

Twenty nine years and nine months ago, I registered to vote and became a member of the Republican Party which was founded in 1854 to oppose slavery and stand for the dignity of human life. Today, I renounce my membership in the Republican Party. It is fully the party of Trump.

It is corrupt, indecent and immoral. With the exception of a few Governors like Baker, Hogan and Kasich it is filled with feckless cowards who disgrace and dishonor the legacies of the party’s greatest leaders. This child separation policy is connected to the worst abuses of humanity in our history. It is connected by the same evil that separated families during slavery and dislocated tribes and broke up Native American families.

It is immoral and must be repudiated. Our country is in trouble. Our politics are badly broken. The first step to a season of renewal in our land is the absolute and utter repudiation of Trump and his vile enablers in the 2018 election by electing Democratic majorities. I do not say this as an advocate of a progressive agenda. I say it as someone who retains belief in DEMOCRACY and decency.

On Ronald Reagan’s grave are these words: “I know in my heart that man is good. That what is right will always eventually triumph and there is purpose and worth to each and every life.” He would be ashamed of McConnell and Ryan and all the rest while this corrupt government establishes internment camps for babies.

Everyone of these complicit leaders will carry this shame through history. Their legacies will be ones of well earned ignominy. They have disgraced their country and brought dishonor to the Party of Lincoln.

I have spent much of my life working in GOP politics. I have always believed that both parties were two of the most important institutions to the advancement of human freedom and dignity in the history of the world. Today, the GOP has become a danger to our democracy and values.

This Independent voter will be aligned with the only party left in America that stands for what is right and decent and remains fidelitous to our Republic, objective truth, the rule of law and our allies. That party is the Democratic Party.

One of the heaviest burdens in life is to unknowingly labour under a misapprehension. We should always be grateful when someone alerts us to and relieves us of that.

For a long time, I thought that Rick Montana and Maggie Beckett's odd dialogue in the "Net Worth" script were due to the characters having been swapped in for Quinn-2 and Wade, so I'm glad and grateful that Transmodiar and JWSlider3 have been so kind as to provide a correction.

Transmodiar cautioned me during the writing of "Net Worth: The Quinn and Wade Edition," saying, "I urge you not to put any more time into 'Net Worth' than Steve Stoliar did," noting that the writer of (*snicker*) "Paradise Lost" may not have been attempting his magnum opus in Season 4 and that the oddities of his script are likely because it was a less-than-impassioned effort.

That said, Stoliar did an excellent job writing his memoir of his time as Groucho Marx's assistant AND did a nice job on Season 5's "A Current Affair" AND seems like a fundamentally decent and friendly person.

Anyway. "Net Worth: The Quinn and Wade Edition" is plainly not in any way a picture of the Season 3 story as planned. That said -- even if "Net Worth" as scripted for Season 4 had been intended for Season 3, it still wouldn't have been like "The Quinn and Wade Edition." As Transmodiar pointed out, teleplays in 1997 had commercial breaks, didn't have banter between characters sheerly for the joy of having the actors interact, wouldn't have brought back Wade's parents and sister and Hurley in roles that depend on remembering who they are and probably would not have attempted to pastiche John Rhys-Davies' onscreen presence in the script itself.

But. I still think it's a neat exercise to transplant the Season 2 cast into a Season 4 adventure and imagine John Rhys-Davies on the Universal backlot, dodging laser fire made on a Sci-Fi Channel budget and to imagine "Net Worth" with Quinn and Wade doubles in the Rick and Joanne roles and to ask: does putting the original sliders in a latter-era adventure turn it into a SLIDERS story? When I first posted it, I would have said yes.

Today, I concede that the answer is no. While every story is conceivably a SLIDERS story, a SLIDERS story is not necessarily this story in that DECLASSIFIED has revealed that SLIDERS, to be on-brand, needs that peculiar mixture of social satire and witty commentary and careful nuance that observes and inverts. "Net Worth" is ultimately about a physical and technological conflict, not a societal one and putting Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo into it makes it a solid story about the sliders without making it a SLIDERS story.

I look forward to seeing "Onliners" online when time permits.

2,561

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I imagine that Graham thinks backing Trump keeps him in office. We've seen such behaviour on this forum as well among our own members where a guardedly Trump-neutral figure became a fervent Trump supporter when Trump was winning, later insisting that there was no Muslim ban, that Trump's racist comments and self-confessed sexual assault weren't racist or confessional -- because he would support whoever claimed to be on his side or enabled him to (still somewhat guardedly) declare that women should tolerate sexual harassment (in coded terms like saying women-only screenings of WONDER WOMAN were unfair to men or encouraging viewership of Mens Rights Activist documentaries and deceptively edited James O'Keefe videos). He'd support whoever made his deep-seated but not wholly voiced views seem like the mainstream.

I am deeply displeased with Joe Biden, but I've come to terms with voting as a choice in who you want to be your opponent. Who do you think will be easier from whom to wrangle improved health care and federal oversight of police officers and a federal response to COVID-19 and debt relief and rebuilding America's alliances globally? Who would be easier to impeach if he abused his office? Who is likely to stand out of the way of equality for people of colour and essential but low-paid workers? The current president? Or Biden?

Which 2021 president is likely to come after you on Twitter and call for you to be harassed if you criticize his policies? The current president? Or Biden?

Andrew Yang is great. Andrew Yang is not running.

As for Tara Reade -- the liberal media was keen to attack her with charges of being a delinquent debtor as though someone who owes money couldn't possibly be telling the truth about being an assault victim. However -- another investigation that I think will stick is that Reade turns out to have a history of misrepresenting her credentials and work history specifically to present herself as an expert witness in criminal court cases involving violence against women.

The California district attorney is now forced to investigate at least six cases in which Reade presented herself as a graduate and former professor at Antioch University when the university says she never completed her degree and was only an administrative assistant. She also cited her past as a legislative assistant to Biden when working on the Violence Against Women Act when in truth, she sorted mail and had no legislative duties at all. A pattern has emerged: Reade has a history of frequently embellishing her past with Biden for notoriety. When it gave her importance and made her hirable, she praised him; now she's using her past association to smear him in the current climate. Her lawyer has dropped her, the cases in which she testified are going to have to be reopened and I think Reade's credibility is shattered.

But I have absolutely no doubt that Biden engaged in inappropriate touching throughout his life and we should absolutely hold that against him from now to forever.

2,562

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I really don't understand the support for Trump.

You know, this reminds me of SLIDERS. (Shock! Gasp!)

When Season 4 was airing, I remember sitting in class and chatting with my classmates, all of whom hated Season 4. They were confused by how isolated and setbound the soundstages looked. They were baffled by Wade's bizarre non-exit exit in "Genesis." They were put off by how our home Earth was now a Kromagg battleground that the sliders left -- yet, the very next week, the sliders liberated the world of "Prophets and Loss" with little difficulty.

They were confused by Quinn's new backstory as a Kromagg Prime refugee when "Invasion" was pretty clear that the Kromaggs hated all humans as an evolutionary deviation and could never have co-habited with humans. They were also disoriented by Maggie's suddenly non-acidic characterization and Quinn's lack of interest in tracking Wade down.

The Kromagg makeup was also extremely poor.

I insisted that it was fine. That surely Wade would be back and the whole breeding camp was just a Kromagg jibe. That we'd maybe get some flashbacks explaining Maggie's characterization. That SLIDERS had always needed an ongoing arc to bring to a huge climax in the season finale and surely this was it. That the Kromagg makeup would sort itself out.

That surely "World Killer" was a new dawn for the show. That "Just Say Yes" was poor, but not every episode could be a winner, and "Mother and Child" and "Net Worth" and "Data World" and "My Brother's Keeper" and "Roads Taken" were just speed bumps. That the season finale would be good, surely it couldn't be bad, and... and...

I just didn't want to admit that the fans had gone through so much torment and grief during Season 3 only to get pretty much the same quality and with Season 4 only being less offensive because it was less expensive and therefore less excessive. If I admitted that Season 4 was bad, then I'd be admitting that I'd invested and hoped and campaigned for nothing. That I'd backed the wrong horse.

In my case, Tracy Torme talked to me over AOL Instant Messenger and explained to me that he himself declined to read the Season 4 - 5 scripts or watch the episodes and it was fine for us both to concede that despite so much effort, he hadn't saved SLIDERS, that the show was past its sell-by date, and that it was okay for him and anyone else to move on and find something new to believe in.

Long time Republican campaigner Steve Schmidt, who is responsible for Sarah Palin, renounced the Republican party after Trump and pinned a lengthy repudiation on his Twitter account at https://twitter.com/steveschmidtses -- and showed that it's okay to admit when we've made a mistake.

2,563

(3,520 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Trump refusing to leave office should he be defeated in the November election would be severely damaging to the already-shredded fabric of America. But I'd kind of like to see this scenario of Trump's refusal to vacate play out for the catharsis of seeing Trump evicted from the White House in handcuffs:

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 … leave.html

I have to say, while Grizzlor's question was where to cut off SLIDERS continuity, I would personally be in favour of adding to it instead. I would want to add:

A couple stories explaining the gap between Seasons 1 - 2. Season 1 ended with Quinn shot, Ryan and Henry the Dog now joining the sliders. Season 2 dismissed it. So, I'd want to add Mike Truman's SLIDERS story, "All That You Can't Leave Behind," a flashback story where Wade recalls the events that took place between "Luck of the Draw" and "Into the Mystic" where Ryan, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo sought medical treatment for Quinn and Ryan chose to leave the sliders.

http://slidersweb.net/otherworlds/317/321.htm

I'd also want to add a second story after "Into the Mystic." Season 1 had the sliders constantly on the verge of homelessness, getting jobs. Season 2 dispenses with all that; the sliders just have money and stay in a hotel, no explanation given (because it was getting repetitive and stalling the plots).

I'd suggest a story where the sliders land on an Earth where the Cold War never ended and the sliders find in the Dominion Hotel a secret cache of cash, clothing, tailoring equipment and supplies. On each parallel Earth with a Dominion, the sliders will visit the hotel and find the cache in 2/5 versions of the Dominion, which is why we no longer seem them out of money and even alternating between outfits and why Arturo is always in a tailored suit.

Another story I'd want to add to SLIDERS canon: an X-FILES crossover. It's unfortunate that SLIDERS never crossed over with every single Vancouver-filming show airing on FOX. Nigel Mitchell's SLIDERS: "X Marks the Spot" story seems to fit the bill: http://freepdfhosting.com/2e80122e71.pdf

And I'd want to add a story into canon where Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo are all reunited after the events of Seasons 3 - 5 in a way that doesn't invalidate or redact anything. :-)

I think any approach to continuity is best additive rather than subtractive.

I’m at the CASTLE episode where Esposito and Ryan are in a burning building!!! Eeeeeeek!!!

I love the characters in this show.

JWSlider3 wrote:

As I said, Tracy is the only one that referred to it as "Onliners".

As of March 20 1997

K1811 "Net  Worth" Steve Stoliar Story assigned 7/2/96 delivered 7/10/96 - In abeyance
K1812 "Adventure in paradise" John Scheinfeld Story assigned 7/16/96 delivered 7/24/96 - Abandoned
K1821 "Slider's Ark" Paul Jackson assigned 10/22/96
K1822 "Heat of the Moment" Tracy Torme assigned 11/1/96

the outline is what was delivered not the script, if it's at the assignment stage it's just a pitch

Transmodiar wrote:

And the K1811 JWSlider has isn't even called "Net Worth;" yes, it involves the internet but it's very very different. As for "Slider's Ark," I asked Paul Jackson about it and he had no recollection of it. John Scheinfeld couldn't recall anything either, per JWSlider.

So, the K1811 "Net Worth" of Season 3 by Steve Stoliar is not the "Net Worth" (K2806) of Season 4 by Steve Stoliar?

Is "Sliders' Ark" most definitely a separate story from "The Exodus"? The title is reminiscent of John Rhys-Davies' pitch for the sliders landing on a doomed Earth and helping to evacuate who they can and debating whether to bring artwork or food supplies and similar conundrums as reported by Sarah_Slider. And "The Exodus" was ultimately scripted by Tony Blake and Paul Jackson.

I'm concerned to hear that Temporal Flux is getting surgery. Without knowing enough about it to comment, I'd say that any day is conceivably our last even without an upcoming surgery with a high success rate but a troubling family history. And while I don't feel you should think that you're marked for death and behave as such, I do think it's important to have goals and ambitions with (flexible) deadlines for increments of progress because, like the sliders and their timer, we always have limited windows of opportunity and should make the most of them. At the same time, we should always be open to seeing new opportunities present themselves. I'm glad you completed and released the DECLASSIFIED script and I'm grateful for how it prompted a lot of thought.

Transmodiar wrote:

We were all wrong - TemporalFlux was wrong, I was wrong, and you were wrong. James has the docs that give a very specific breakdown of what "Onliners" or whatever the hell you want to call it was before it was shelved. And if I ever get the time, it'll likely make its way to Earth Prime. But just so there's no miscommunication, what was designed for season three in NO way resembles what appeared in season four, and it wasn't a simple case of changing the names in the script.

Just like "Raging Quinn" wasn't about Smarter Quinn, it was about a murderous dolphin and Arturo and Quinn beating the daylights out of each other. You live, you learn. TMYK!

Just to clarify -- you are saying that "Onliners" was a separate story from "Net Worth." But in describing one of JWSlider3's documents, you said that the March 1997 status report on scripts specifies four stories that aren't going to proceed, two of which are K1822 (titled Heat of the Moment) and K1811 (titled "Net Worth").

Even if "Onliners" and "Net Worth" were two separate stories, was "Net Worth" still originally a Season 3 episode?

TemporalFlux wrote:

In retrospect, I do somewhat regret fighting so hard to keep Sliders alive; but I was just trying to find my way back to the show I loved.

It is important to review results -- in this case, the misbegotten mess of Seasons 3 - 5; a show that sci-fi writer Warren Ellis described as "an abortion" watched and renewed "by a bunch of cultural rejects every fucking year."

But. It is also important to review actions separately from results. To view them not in terms of the outcome, but in terms of the quality of these choices based on the information available at the time these decisions were made. The effort to save SLIDERS was at its greatest with Season 2 likely to end in cancellation.

The fans rallied to save the show; as far as the fans knew, a third season of SLIDERS would be filmed in Vancouver with Tracy Torme, Alan Barnette, Tony Blake, Paul Jackson, Nan Hagan, Scott Smith Miller and Jon Povill and with Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo continuing as the actors were contracted for several more years. The campaigning fans had no way of knowing that Season 3 would be run by David Peckinpah; the fans gave the show a fighting chance.

The result wasn't worth it, but the effort was absolutely worthwhile in the moment at which the effort was given.

I don't feel Temporal Flux has any further need to investigate the behind the scenes stories of SLIDERS. However, the degree to which he did investigate was vital and important in the time at which he did it. There was so much madness and insanity onscreen: the series went from Vancouver to Los Angeles. The characters went from looking like normal civilians to magazine models. The action-adventure excess of Season 3 became the stagebound, beige-coloured visuals of Seasons 4 - 5. The final episode of SLIDERS had only one remaining original cast member.

Temporal Flux's efforts brought sense and reason to the traumatic, inexplicable events on SLIDERS. The fans needed Temporal Flux and everything he had to give in that moment and in the moment in which he gave it. And if TF has moved on, well, he has accomplished the most important and meaningful thing; he brought understanding to the incomprehensible.

And speaking for myself and my own journey with SLIDERS, the answers he gave us were put into my SLIDERS fan writing as fictionalized versions of Temporal Flux's truth. The "Slide Effects" script reveals that the events of Season 3 - 5 were a simulation created by a Kromagg who was assigned to control the sliders' minds and came to despise them and their adventures -- just like David Peckinpah.

The SLIDERS REBORN stories declare that Seasons 3 - 5 and the disordered episodes and disappeared guest characters of Seasons 1 - 2 were caused by Geiger ripping all Quinn doubles out of all realities, causing a cataclysmic event across the multiverse that cracked the rules of reality, resulting in monsters, magic, the supernatural -- and says that reality began to break down and implode, resulting in Seasons 4 - 5 all being set in the same locations and interiors and reflecting how reality was beginning to shrink as it collapsed. I got a lot of fan mail applauding these explanations because they felt true and that's because they were the truth -- which Temporal Flux brought to us.

And if there's some area of truth where TF's information was incomplete and where JWSlider3's generosity and Transmodiar's diligence enlighten and clarify, then I look forward to it with appreciation, gratitude and fondness for all three of you.

Well! This is very interesting.

I am not, as I specified above, all that interested in collectibles and archaeological items regarding SLIDERS. I also wasn't aware that the document regarding "Net Worth" originating in Season 3 came from you, but since you've informed me that it was yours, I would gladly put you in your place -- the place being that you clearly have a lot of interesting material and important knowledge and information regarding SLIDERS. You were/are in possession of important documents that confirmed what Temporal Flux had believed to be the case regarding "Net Worth" being a planned-for-Season-3 story even when the writer of the episode and a producer during Season 3 denied this to be the case. I thank and congratulate you.

I asked about your script exchange because you sent me a message two years ago about scripts and last year, Transmodiar said that "because of you," he was extremely busy, indicating that the two of you were collaborating on something interesting. I've never known Transmodiar to not be working on something interesting.

You also started this thread regarding an eBay sale of a script (which I mistakenly thought to be your sale), so I was curious to know if you'd succeeded in your wish to exchange SLIDERS scripts. If you were able to do this, then I would again like to congratulate you.

It's not that I wasn't interested in your endeavour and its success -- I referred you to someone else whom I thought might help you. But you were interested in a script exchange and I had no scripts to exchange with you; I didn't have anything to contribute. I myself don't have any SLIDERS collectibles (unless you count the Dual Dimension DVD set that I just found behind my bed while I was vacuuming).

Alright, self-published. Haha!

I'm going to throw someone else's hat in and say that the idea for "Onliners" / "Net Worth" / "Net Worth: The Quinn and Wade Edition" actually came from fanfic writer Nigel Mitchell who wrote the SLIDERS novella "Reboot," which is the first published SLIDERS story featuring a computer-driven parallel Earth. Hilariously dated by now, but still splendid, and for some reason featuring Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt, Maggie and Max, an Arturo double introduced in a previous story from the INFINITE SLIDES fanfic series.

https://freepdfhosting.com/f964e65dc9.pdf

Thanks for the corrections. It makes me wonder if the reason Stoliar had no memory of "Onliners" being the starting point for "Net Worth" is because it was Torme's idea and not Stoliar's.

I liked CASTLE until about the middle of Season 4 -- at which point Castle and Kate's continued reluctance to act on their interest in each other became incredibly tedious. But the zombie episode was hilarious, an episode where Castle insists for almost the entire episode that a zombie apocalypse has been unleashed due to a zombie attacking a murder victim on a security tape and culminates in Castle and Kate surrounded by a hoard of zombies who turn out to be cosplayers engaged in a Zombie Walk event. And the finale finally opened up the Castle/Kate arc to romance and Season 5 has been a wonderful resurgence of the chemistry as Castle and Kate now have 1,000,000 new things to argue about endlessly even though they're now an item. Amazing episodes this year include the spoof of "The Ring," the spoof of "Rear Window" and the budget saving clip show where Castle and Kate argue about every argument they've ever had in the past five years while standing above a literal ticking time bomb.

I'm not saying CASTLE is the greatest show ever made, but it's made with great love and passion for its characters, at least as far as Season 5. Season 4 was a bit too long, however, and dragged out the distance between Castle and Kate for an entire year when it probably should have been resolved by the middle of the year.

I would never call CASTLE excellent, but it is very competent within its low hanging target and it consistently hits that target.

I never actually saw the document. Transmodiar was merely kind enough to mention the “Net Worth” factoid while discussing my latest mental health crisis. Haha!

For those who aren’t aware: TF was of the view that “Net Worth” had originally been a Season 3 pitch entitled “Onliners” and featured Quinn and Wade doubles in the roles of Rick and Joanne and was shelved after John was fired. Writer Steve Stoliar, however, said he had no memory of “Net Worth” being anything other than a Season 4 episode. Producer Paul Jackson had no recollection of anything called “Onliners.” Transmodiar informed me that this was likely one of TF’s few errors, possibly a miscommunication due to a lot of story ideas being communicated verbally but not on any documents that were preserved.

But that didn’t make any sense. Tracy Torme’s notes for Season 3 indicated that he had received a story idea called “Onliners” that he liked and that the Season 3 team might reject; he was going to ask Acclaim to consider producing it. And the script for “Net Worth” has unaired dialogue for Rick where he is familiar with sliding and where Maggie claims to be familiar with Joanne despite having only known her for two scenes — dialogue that only makes sense for a Quinn double and Wade speaking to her own double. The role of Mrs. Montana is also clearly written for Linda Henning.

Transmodiar reviewed JWSlider’s documents which included a mid-season progress report on Season 3 scripts. It included “Onliners,” which had been retitled “Net Worth” and put on hold.

A few years ago, I wrote “Net Worth: The Quinn and Wade Edition,” featuring the original sliders in the story with doubles of Quinn and Wade and Hurley and Amanda Mallory replacing Rick, Joanne, Jack and Mrs. Montana.

http://freepdfhosting.com/5e12f7fac9.pdf

My niece was furious with me for removing Mark Sheppard’s Jack from the episode as she loves that actor in SUPERNATURAL but was placated when I made sure to give him a cameo in my SLIDERS REBORN. Transmodiar was dismayed by how I spent three months working out a solution to how the sliders survived a bazooka aimed at the ceiling of their hotel room and gobsmacked by my having never seen MACGYVER and horrified when I declared that Wikipedia made MACGYVER sound like the greatest show ever and had inspired me to have Quinn find a way to defeat the bazooka. Transmodiar also thought it was unrealistic for the resulting script to feature Hurley and Wade’s parents and sister and to exclude commercial breaks and said it was very obviously fan fiction. He is correct.

Say, whatever happened with your script exchange? Weren't you working on something with Transmodiar?

I'm glad you like Season 4 because I never want anyone to have a bad time. I said the same thing to REWATCH PODCAST when they gave "The Exodus" a positive review. Grizzlor has done so much for the SLIDERS community. There is no subjective point of disagreement with him that in any way diminishes him. Season 4 is trash.

It's frustrating because there's clearly a lot of talent in Season 4: Marc Scott Zicree and Chris Black are highly engaged, Kari Wuhrer shows actual talent, but the majority of Season 4 episodes are clumsy, unprofessional, sloppy and dull, but the absence of Season 3's excesses make it seem less abrasive, obnoxious and unwatchable. If you watch "This Slide of Paradise," any TV episode that comes after "This Slide of Paradise" looks brilliant just by being not as incompetent and inept as "This Slide of Paradise."

But it's a terrible season. "Genesis" trashes the SLIDERS storytelling platform by making our home Earth a Kromagg outpost and Quinn an interdimensional refugee; he and Rembrandt can no longer compare parallel worlds with their own without angst and grief for the audience if not the characters. Jerry's performance in most episodes is sleepy and he is clearly hungover in most episodes. Cleavant Derricks retains his usual gusto, but his character has lost his everyman charm, his penchant for song, his comedic voice and the musical background that Tracy Torme brought to the character. Kari Wuhrer's performance is an improvement in that it's actually a performance, but it's so painfully performative and over enunciated and overconsidered. Charlie O'Connell has no idea what he's doing and has been overpromoted from playing Quinn Mallory's corpse and Jerry's occasional body double to a regular role for no good reason whatsoever.

The stories are unable to focus on parallel worlds. The script editor, when present, did a half-decent job of making the stories filmable and with some worthwhile ideas. But the ideas are entirely focused on technology rather than culture and the people living in these worlds: instead of facing dogma, prejudice, bureaucracy, tyranny, sexism, monarchies, and other forces of society, the sliders now fight spaceships, superweapons, superviruses, superdrugs, cryogenics, clones, virtual reality, virtual reality, cybernetics, cryogenics, bubble universes and superweapons.

Marc Scott Zicree contributed two teleplays to Season 4, introducing the slidewave and the slidecage and that's great, but when nearly every episode of Season 4 is fixated on technology, it's repetitive and monotonous and detaches the stories from characterization and cleverness. Despite Zicree giving up on the show after the first third of Season 4, the remainder of the year features his worst habits but without his inventiveness, wit or charm for most of it. Keith Damron does a good job with "Virtual Slide." Chris Black does a good job with "Slide By Wire." But they're the exception instead of the rule.

Wade's non-exit exit is an abomination in "Genesis," playing rape as a joke. Even worse is the follow up in "Mother and Child," where Jerry's reaction to learning that Wade was/is near is to hurry off camera without performing any reaction, likely because he was drunk. Every arc in Season 4 is treated with the same contempt: the team leaves Earth Prime in search of a superweapon. They find a superweapon in "Common Ground" and "World Killer" and and "Slidecage" and "Mother and Child" and "Revelations" and use none of them.

The need to save Earth Prime is their core mission in "Genesis" but mentioned incidentally in "Revelations." The search for Kromagg Prime is their main goal in "Genesis"; they have the coordinates and the means to bypass the slidecage in "Revelations," they don't use them. "Genesis" establishes that the sliders are being permitted to survive Kromagg outposts to locate Kromagg Prime; "The Dying Fields" and "Mother and Child" show the Kromaggs actively trying to kill the sliders and the plot is forgotten.

Ultimately, Season 4 is only superficially different from Season 3 due to the lower budget. But like Season 3, the fourth season alienated its most talented creator; it introduces arc elements that are forgotten almost immediately; it savagely mutilates another original cast member; it has an unwatchable season finale -- this time because it's tedious, a third of a beat sheet stretched out to fill the entire timeslot. And once again, they tied up their budget with another standing set -- a hotel instead of a cave -- and created a dull, repetitive look to nearly every episode.

Season 4 was billed as the return of SLIDERS with all the creative support and freedom it had been denied. And this is how it chose to use it. I would rather SLIDERS had been cancelled with Season 3.

I felt Season 3 was okay when it was working as pitched and planned -- as an action-adventure show. However, within a few episodes of Season 3, the show took a very odd turn towards horror and fantasy with "The Dream Masters" and "Dragonslide," both of which essentially present magic, and this went to its nadir with "The Exodus" making the sliders' archnemesis a slasher villain akin to Jason and Michael, "Stoker" with the vampires and "This Slide of Paradise" which is unwatchable.

The problem with this sort of story for sliders: the characters are normal people who (more often than not) survive to get to the next episode and two of them are scientists. Scientists attempt to understand the underlying rules of existence and manipulate them. And you also have Wade, who understands sociological rules and Rembrandt, who understands artistic principles. Ideally, these characters would survive by acquiring and applying knowledge -- but when the magic and monsters and supernatural are uncontained by any rules relating to the characters, then the sliders end up solving their problems with force and violence rather than cleverness and it doesn't get to the heart of the characters themselves.

But if the episodes had stuck to the template of "Double Cross" -- technology, chase sequences, eye candy -- I think SLIDERS would have been okay. It would not have been the thought provoking, mind-expanding, satirical series of Season 1, but it would have been an enjoyable, acceptable, professional product. I also gently reject Torme's assertion that movie ripoffs should not be done on SLIDERS; I think SLIDERS is a perfect vehicle for pastiche. It'd be interesting to see the sliders devise a scientific solution to toppling dragons, defeating vampires, shutting down killer robots and step into other genres: the romcom, the conspiracy thriller, the espionage adventure, the office drama, the found footage episode, the documentary, the re-enactment crime show, the locked room mystery, and so on.

Unfortunately, Season 3 becomes overly fixated on horror and is also hit by a massive downturn in competence: scripts are clearly not reviewed before filming, budget is mishandled so badly that the back nine episodes of Season 3 are beset by financial shortages, actors misdeliver lines and yet those takes are aired, sound effects are missing from scenes.

Seasons 4 - 5, I don't really find all that different except Season 4 had the benefit of Marc Scott Zicree working on the first third or so of the season. Afterwards, the show becomes fixated on another genre -- the sci-fi technology drama. Pretty much every episode of the last two years is overly concerned with doomsday machines, computers, cloning, cryogenics data crystals, slideships, and this fixation on futuristic technology removes SLIDERS' charm as a dramedy focused more on sociology than technology.

For this reason, despite my personal fondness for the show, I don't really consider it "the best show ever" or even good. The first 22 episodes of the show are well-worth watching as a very grounded speculative fiction series akin to THE OUTER LIMITS and THE TWILIGHT ZONE but with a regular cast of lovable misfits. Everything after that is problematic in the extreme from its horrific chauvinism, its causal attitude to rape, its blatant hostility towards science whether it's aeronautics, archaeology, a baffling decision to waste money on a large and costly cave or hotel set that has to be included in the majority of episodes, the inability to retain actors who are contracted for six years, the overlong scripts that repeat already-established information to fill a page count.

SLIDERS is a personal favourite, but when I say that, I'm referring to the first 22 episodes and what comes afterwards, I tend to think of as a peculiar offbrand variant. It's unfortunate that to the public at large, people tend to remember SLIDERS for the bad movie ripoffs that were done with an incompetent charmlessness.