3,901

(0 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

As someone who reveres the Quinn Mallory character, I naturally have some interest in MacGyver, an 80s-era secret who would use his knowledge of chemistry, engineering, mechanics, aerodynamics and improvisation on various missions. MacGyver, despite the protests of some, is a very Quinn Mallory-esque character, a man constantly in dangerous situations who, despite battling evil is ultimately a man of peace who avoids violence and lethal force when possible. He was a great contrast to the machismo of 80s action heroes, and in this day and age, a hero like MacGyver is needed more than ever.

Unfortunately, the reboot completely misses the mark. The actors are all great, but the writing seems deeply uncomfortable and at times simply incapable. The MacGyverisms are not only deeply unimaginative and predictable, they also prove to be ineffectual. In the teaser alone, MacGyver's brilliant invention is to use a magnet to create radio interference and use tape to lift fingerprints. That's not clever; that's just commonplace with the writers creating incredibly easy softball situations to avoid challenging the character or themselves. More alarmingly, even these simplistic measures fail. The mission proves to be a complete disaster and MacGyver and his team look ineffectual and incompetent.

Then there's the discovery that MacGyver's girlfriend and colleague, Nikki, turns out to be a collaborator in a mass murder plot with a virus. The script provides no depth whatsoever into what MacGyver's relationship with her meant to either party and the actress is provided with no dialogue or scenes to explain her character or motivations -- she's simply a blank space and actress Tracy Spiridakos has nothing to play to make the character menacing or mysterious, and the fact that MacGyver was in love with this vapidly written cipher who fooled him makes him look even dumber.

And then we come to the violence. The classic MACGYVER had scuffles and battles despite not using guns, but this new MACGYVER has the character teamed with a partner, Jack Dalton, who casually shoots villains to death. While it's understandable to allow this in an espionage drama, the result is that MacGyver's non-lethal tactics are further undermined because if they were in any way effective, he wouldn't need Jack to kill people on his behalf.

When MacGyver gets into fights himself, the scripts make extremely poor use of his ability to use his surroundings effectively, coming up with all of two ideas when the pacing calls for at least five or six. If you're going to have MacGyver fight hand to hand repeatedly, it needs to be akin to Jackie Chan using shopping carts, cabinets, chili peppers and refrigerators in rapid succession instead of MacGyver dropping a ladder on someone once. The most exasperating thing is that despite Lucas Till's superb charm and presence as MacGyver, the script has him giving self-satisfied voiceovers about his competence when the visuals show he's a catastrophe and the show doesn't seem to know it.

It's funny -- the show is being led by the series creator, Lee David Zlotoff. But the thing is that Zlotoff was barely involved in the original MACGYVER; it was Henry Winkler and John Rich who were trying to come up with an action-adventure series for Richard Dean Anderson; Zlotoff was hired to write the Pilot episode and came up with the idea of a hero who used the objects around him to get him out of dangerous situations, but the Pilot uses that more as narrative convenience than the main attraction.

Zlotoff then took a long hiatus from television. The MACGYVER pilot written by Zlotoff is like a vague sketch at best; MacGyver is arrogant and at one point fires an AK-47 and lives in an observatory. It was only when producer Stephen Downing came aboard did the MACGYVER solidify into emphasizing MacGyver's improvisational brilliance not as a plot device but as the centerpiece of the show and what would draw viewers in week after week, and he also toned down MacGyver's smugness and made him more humble and seemingly deferential.

Due to Winkler and Rich forgetting certain key contractual issues, Zlotoff's representation determined that Zlotoff was the creator of the property and held the rights to the character, leading to lavish payments and the reboot where Zlotoff is in charge.

Now, I don't think it's unreasonable for Zlotoff to have reaped the rewards of his creation as he did come up with the name and the idea of MacGyver being a master-spy who could turn a tent into a hang glider on the fly -- but Zlotoff wasn't really a part of the series that came after the Pilot and made MacGyver a cultural icon, so I'm unfortunately not surprised to see that the creator doesn't really understand how his successors were able to make his show special.

The new MACGYVER is aesthetically respectful to the past, mimicking shots from the original, using a variation on the original theme, preserving MacGyver's Swiss Army knife and even his hairstyle. But in Zlotoff's hands, MacGyver has returned to what he was in that early draft that was the Pilot: a generic action hero with some inventive but low-key and ultimately irrelevant quirks played by a terrific actor who desperately needs a better screenwriter.

3,902

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21, check your email for a diagram on my thoughts regarding the multiverse and please provide your usual criticism. Always appreciated.

**

I will happily make up with pilight once pilight provides a thorough apology. I have extended far more courtesy than pilight deserves, but my patience for pilight is depleted.

When I proposed a method for rebooting SLIDERS with the original cast at their current ages, pilight had nothing but ridiculing remarks for the smallest and most irrelevant of details, but I treated those as constructive criticisms and expressed appreciation for pilight's nitpicking.

I did the same when in the "Breeder" thread, I pondered ways of telling monster movie stories that would maintain something of SLIDERS as a scientifically principled series. Both in that thread and here, pilight scoffed at my thoughts by saying my ideas were simply mimicking MACGYVER. As before, I assumed positive intent and inquired as to pilight's own views on how monster movies might be done. After ignoring the question repeatedly and responding to thank you for his 'criticisms' with no acknowledgement whatsoever, pilight finally condescended to offer pilight's own views on how to do monster movies in SLIDERS --

WHICH WERE EXACTLY THE SAME AS MY VIEWS!!!!

Clearly, pilight is one of THOSE people who respond to any and all ideas from others with uniform dismissiveness because those ideas come from others. In contrast, ideas that come from pilight are somehow superior even when they're identical to the ideas pilight labels as inadequate. I am no longer going to assume positive intent. I am no longer going to assume that pilight has an alternate and opposing point of view to share. I'm instead coming to the conclusion pilight's just an ass and pilight can piss right off. I am done taking pilight's thoughts and opinions seriously.

**

Informant, I am sick of telling you this, so for THE LAST TIME -- announce it when your books have been released so that I know to buy them!!

And does the curse of MACGYVER for your family extend to the reboot?

3,903

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

So, having been nothing but rudely scornful of my thoughts on the Season 3 monsters and how they could be done well, your proposed alternative is... simply to paraphrase my own ideas back at me but with an extra sentence about negotiation. When it comes from me, it's too much like MACGYVER, but when it comes out of your keyboard, that's absolutely fine.

Clearly, it was a waste of time to take any interest in your opinions since you have none to offer, only sneering derision followed by parroting back the very viewpoints with which you disagreed.

3,904

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Once again, pilight, I have to ask: given your contemptuous disdain for my thoughts on how SLIDERS could do monster stories while still retaining its identity, do you have any actual alternatives and ideas for how else SLIDERS could do monster movies? Or would you simply have the sliders be snidely dismissive of the monsters?

3,905

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

So what you're saying is that there's an episode of MACGYVER where he fights zombies, vampires, animal human hybrids, killer robots and Morlocks? I'm only in the first season; when does he start fighting monsters? I'm looking forward to it.

3,906

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Hey, Slider_Quinn21? Could you check your email? I could use your help with something. Thanks!

**

As for the thoughts on how the sliders would react realistically to their adventures -- the simple truth is that SLIDERS isn't a realistic series and never has been. SLIDERS attempted to create a realistic *feeling* via cinematography, lighting and costuming, but the psychological fallout of their traumas has always been deflected with comedy or outright ignored whether it's Season 1 or Season 4.

And the only way to real deal with it, in my view, is to simply embrace it. Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo are four people who turned out to have precisely the right mindsets, skillsets and attitudes to not only survive sliding but thrive on it.

The fact that the Professor was always in a fitted suit and Rembrandt always had cash and Wade could get hired by the mayor despite having no credentials and that Quinn never carried luggage is best seen as a metaphor representing their superb aptitude for living as interdimensional nomads rather than a literal portrayal of what it would be like for them.

**

Okay, I've found a way for Part 6 to match the vision of the future that was shown in Part 5 by including the parasites and the snakes while finding a way to remove them from the big fight so that the sliders don't have to kill them. There will be no need to retroactively amend Part 5. Thanks, Informant.

**

As for piliight -- I have to say we're of precisely the same mindset. REBORN treats SLIDERS' tangled history the way the way the best legacy superhero comics will celebrate and incorporate all variations of their mythos into a unified supermyth. For the final installment, I wanted to take the sliders on a spin into the superhero genre and while still keeping the sliders recognizably the sliders. I decided to bring in the Season 3 monsters for that purpose and have the sliders fight them.

But I too found that having the sliders engage in physical combat was an inappropriate fit -- mostly because the sliders don't have any physical superpowers; their superpower is vortex technology and all the advantages there and their superheroics would not be killing monsters but in rescuing people and finding some clever way to deal with the monsters using the contents of a Costco. This is why I wanted to take the parasites and the snakes out -- I felt that the solutions to those two monsters were too violent.

I think my use of the words "fight" and "charging into battle" are hyperbolically misleading. The sliders don't have weapons to fight the dragon and scarabs. They have aspirin and cough syrup. It's meant metaphorically; they're working to save the day -- but they're not physically trying to hurt anyone.

Your derisive remark about MACGYVER shook me because MACGYVER's non-violent and scientific thinking was what inspired me, but your later post has made me feel a renewed confidence. If I were having the sliders dress up in masks and kevlar to kill supervillains, it would be a Marvel movie with characters using the SLIDERS names; I really think that this will be a SLIDERS take on the superhero genre and capture the sense that any story is conceivably a SLIDERS story. This can work. Thanks.

3,907

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

pilight wrote:

The Sliders shouldn't be "charging into battle" at all.  They're not soldiers.  They need to find ways to defeat their enemies indirectly.  Use their scientific knowledge to undermine the monsters' power or protect people from them.  That's what Quinn and company did in the first two seasons.  They didn't confront the California Health Commission in "Fever", they found a way to diminish its power.  In "The Good, the Bad, and the Wealthy" Quinn did everything he could to avoid direct confrontation.  That's the Sliders ethos for the first two seasons.

Well, this post of yours makes me feel better. I think you will approve of how this turns out.

3,908

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I just looked at the script pages where the vision of the future needs to be revised -- I need to remove three words from a monologue. Still, I think you'd be right. However, in my case -- well, I'm doing this for free! I'm not a professional! Hopefully, this won't lead to a MISERY-style situation. *sigh* I think I will hold off on removing the words from Part 5 until I finish Part 6 -- maybe the parasites and the snakes can be briefly mentioned and dispatched.

I'd just like to say it's really cool of you to not immediately dismiss the idea that the Season 3 monsters could be used effectively and in a way that's true to the themes and values of SLIDERS in its first two seasons.

3,909

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

From the Breeder thread:

pilight wrote:
ireactions wrote:

On the Season 3 monsters in general -- I always figured Quinn and Arturo would whip up some inventive solutions with something of Torme's sense of humour -- such as where the key elements to defeating the zombies, animal-human hybrids, vampires, scarab and robots could be a stick of butter, a jar of aspirin, a tin of peanuts, an insulin kit, cough syrup and a case of golf balls. I've been thinking about this a lot.

Yes, what Sliders really needed was to be more like Macgyver

pilight's sarcastic response hurt my feelings a bit (not that it should stop anyone) because I finished outlining a sequence that has the sliders charging into battle against zombies, dragons, animal-human hybrids, Morlocks, vampires, scarabs, killer robots and the sliders' key armaments are indeed a stick of butter, a bottle of aspirin, bag of peanuts, a flashlight, an insulin kit, some cough syrup and a number of golf balls.

Matt continues to maintain that I'm completely insane on this. I did have to lose the pancake parasites, snakes and the amusement park, sadly. The mini-scoop from "Please Press One" is a maybe.

This ties into yet another question I have for Informant; have you ever had to revise a previous work because your next installment went in an unexpected direction? My issue is that in Part 5, there was a glimpse of the future and that glimpse had a storm of Season 3 monsters attacking the city. However, as I nail down all the details of Part 6, it's become clear to me that a few of the monsters will have to omitted -- specifically the super-intelligent snakes and the pancake parasites (the latter of which already appeared in Part 2, so it's not a snub).

The reason I'm eliminating them -- Part 3 has Quinn briefly reconnecting with the intelligent living flame from "The Fire Within" and Part 6 was originally going to have Quinn defeat the pancake parasites by calling upon the intelligent flame to create a massive burst of fire that would draw in all the heat-craving parasites and cold-blooded snakes and incinerate them but leave the flame too exhausted to contribute more to the fight. I've decided not to do this because... well, there's a certain tone I'm aiming for by using the Season 3 monsters -- a funny, comedic, pleasing, absurd tone of crazy images -- and Quinn burning his enemies to death was not the tone I wanted.

... so I'm going back into Part 5 and removing the lines that specify that the parasites and snakes are coming for the city. It still leaves the zombies and vampires and Morlocks and robots and remote controlled cars that shoot lasers and the animal human hybrids.

Anyway. I'm wondering where Informant stands on this kind of digital chicanery.

Matt Hutaff -- crushing your dreams since 1995!

But clearly, the solution here is to set your sights lower to a more achievable project. The solution is to find an expert on SLIDERS. A figure whom we would all agree is the de-facto authority on the series -- and find some way to offer this person a sum of money -- a grant of sorts -- to fund him while he takes the time out of his life to write a book. An ebook. A behind the scenes tell-all of SLIDERS' production history. A writer friend of mine once described grants such as these as "grocery money" to keep himself while working on projects that had yet to be sold. We would need to offer this individual a grant in exchange for an agreed delivery date and distribution system and he would also need to receive all profits from the publication of the book because he was the one who spent all the time and money and effort hammering behind the scenes tidbits out of SLIDERS production staff and crew members.

But would he do it... ? I don't know. We all serve SLIDERS in our own way; some of us by talking about it, some of us by writing foolhardy 20th anniversary specials that only 23 people will read, and it is arguable that this fine fellow has done his work, put as much of it online as he's willing to and we should ask no more of him.

3,911

(28 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

On the Season 3 monsters in general -- I always figured Quinn and Arturo would whip up some inventive solutions with something of Torme's sense of humour -- such as where the key elements to defeating the zombies, animal-human hybrids, vampires, scarab and robots could be a stick of butter, a jar of aspirin, a tin of peanuts, an insulin kit, cough syrup and a case of golf balls. I've been thinking about this a lot.

3,912

(934 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ3VQkK6Upo

Honest Trailers for Civil War!

3,913

(19 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Once again, the Rewatch Podcast has seen fit to tell outrageous lies about me. In their Season 2 finale podcast on LOIS & CLARK, Tom and Cory claimed that I'd declined to appear on the podcast and had not recorded an appearance. This is untrue -- I went to extensive efforts in scheduling for us to meet for three hours in Melbourne in the same airport terminal during a layover where we could record together. And despite giving Tom and Cory a second chance, they deceitfully cut my segment from the podcast and made an excuse for my absence.

What follows is a transcript of the missing segment. Draw your own conclusions.

TOM: "And we are very happy to have our good friend ireactions back to talk about Season 2 with us!"
CORY: "I swear to God, if he mentions that other show -- I will kill him! I will kill him!"
ME: "Tom -- !"
TOM: "He's just kiddin'! Hey, no worries, airport security! Cory here's just kidding! So, Season 2 of LOIS & CLARK!"
CORY: "Well, it's kind of up and down, isn't it? The new writing team's Tony Blake and Paul Jackson -- "
TOM: "And they're very inconsistent! I liked the second half better than the first half. I mean, the first half is kind of a generic superhero show and Blake and Jackson reflect that -- "
ME: "I find that Tony Blake and Paul Jackson tend to reflect the leadership they're given; they're professionals doing a professional's job, but they're not going to go above and beyond."
CORY: "Season 1 ended with Lois calling Clark friend and family -- then Blake and Jackson took over and had her treating him like some guy at the office."
TOM: "Yeah, it's weird how Blake and Jackson came in as the second generation of writers and they have, again, an inconsistent approach to respecting the past, just like on SLIDERS -- oh shit -- "
CORY: "Tom, you idiot -- "
ME: "When I say they're professionals doing a professional's job, I mean Blake and Jackson work under the executive producers and networks, they follow their mandates, so if they're told to do a generic superhero show, that's what they do. If they're told to do more romcom stuff, that's what they do. Like in Season 1; their one script followed romcom tropes by introducing Linda King, Lois' old college roommate --"
CORY: "Oh thank God. We made it -- "
ME: "Just like on SLIDERS where -- "
CORY: "God damn it!!! Tom! What've you done?!!?"
ME: "In Season 2, Blake and Jackson wrote 'Love Gods' and 'Gillian of the Spirits' which didn't exactly reflect a passion for creating alternate histories, but executed them competently and professionally by giving the actors lots of fun and memorable things to do and scenes where they bounced off each other well -- and then in Season 3, they introduced Quinn's female double and managed to mesh a more action-oriented approach with the old style in "Double Cross -- "
TOM: "Cory, it's okay, it's okay -- we can cut out that later, we can cut out that later!"
ME: "But then with episodes like 'Dragonslide' and 'The Exodus' and 'Slither,' Blake and Jackson have been told to do monster movies and horror movies and that's what they do; they do as they're told, they're not looking to rock the boat too much -- "
CORY: "Oh for God's sake -- if I wanted to do Sliderscast, I would do Sliderscast -- "
TOM: "And so -- how would you describe Blake and Jackson in a more LOIS & CLARK context?"
ME: "Well, their first three scripts for Season 2 are the generic superhero show, but then they wrote the episode where Lex Luthor comes back -- "
TOM: "There, Cory, you see? We cut out the SLIDERS stuff, we go straight to this in the edited version -- "
ME: "Which really shows how Blake and Jackson are a solid pair of hands. 'Dragonslide,' for example, isn't the most popular episode of SLIDERS -- "
TOM: "No!!!!!"
ME: "'Dragonslide' was filmed with almost no editing or revision to the script, and what that tells us is that Blake and Jackson can create filmable material really quickly in a pressure cooker environment and their scripts are on time and within the budget. With "Love Gods" and "Gillian of the Spirits," their fast work was matched with Tracy Torme and Jon Povill editing and punching up their material, too. Whereas with "The Exodus," all notions of quality control had vanished in a drunken haze and they were carrying out executive directives like blowing up John Rhys-Davies after sucking his brain out and shooting him -- "
CORY: "Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhh!!!!!!"
ME: "Gacckkkkkk -- gkkkkk -- ghhhh !"
TOM: "Cory! Let go of his neck! Cory, don't -- !"
CORY: "Shut up!!! Shut up!!!! This is the LOIS & CLARK rewatch!!! This is the LOIS & CLARK rewatch!!!"
ME: "Kggghhhhhh! Knnnngddddd!!!"
TOM: "Cory, you'll kill him! You can't do this -- !!"
CORY: "I can't be dealing with this in Season 3 is what I can't be doing!!!!"
ME: "Slldddsrrbbbb -- !!!"
CORY: "What!?"
ME: "Sliddddsssrbbb -- !!"
TOM: "What's he saying?"
ME: "Sliids -- kghhhh -- rborrrn -- ghhhh -- "
CORY: "Ack! Tom, let go of me -- !"
ME: "SLIDERS -- " (cough)
CORY: "Tom, let me go!"
ME: "REBORN!"
TOM: "Cory! He hasn't finished the sixth and final SLIDERS REBORN script yet! If you kill him, there are like 15 SLIDERS fans on the internet who'll never forgive you! Maybe as many as 20!"
CORY: " ................... fine! Fine! But he is NOT coming back for Season 3!"
TOM: "ireactions, thanks again for being here!"











































I'm kidding.

3,914

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The most important thing to note is that the premiere will be directed by James Bamford, a man who made his career as a stuntman and stunt coordinator but whose real claim to fame, as we all know, is that he played Quinn Mallory. In "The Unstuck Man." In the teaser. Seen only from behind at a distance. That's what really matters.

"Gotta say, I respect ireactions' ability to bring any conversation back to SLIDERS."
— Slider_Quinn21

So, what happened here?

While I miss Jim and Dan, I have to confess that the Rewatch Podcast has pretty much made Sliderscast extraneous at this point -- not because Slidercast wasn't or wouldn't be enjoyable, but because Rewatch Podcast was consistently present and made its way through all 88 episodes at a continued and regular pace. In contrast, Sliderscast has seemingly vanished and the fact that Rewatch Podcast started so much later and managed to review "The Seer" AND "Slide Effects" while Sliderscast hasn't even gotten into Season 3 is just... kind of sad. I mean, they were friendly competitors, but there's no competition now. Sliderscast is a complete and total non-entity.

And yet -- it's not necessarily a bad thing in that I have often wished SLIDERS had ended with Season 2 rather than getting a long, drawn out, painful demise. Considering Dan Kurtzke's agony in many Season 2 episodes alone, maybe it's for the best that he'll never get into late Season 3.

I hope they come back someday, but if they don't... is the SLIDERS fan community poorer without Sliderscast? Maybe it would be except that the void Sliderscast left was filled by the Rewatch Podcast. The one thing Rewatch Podcast doesn't do, however, is the casual sense of two friends goofing about over SLIDERS -- instead, you get the sense that Tom and Cory treat podcasting like a job whereas Dan and Jim are just chatting and the fact that they record their conversation is incidental. I do miss that.

3,916

(28 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Informant wrote:

But I mean... What did you *really* think?

It is so obvious from watching "The Breeder" that nobody writing or producing this show has any respect for the concept or characters and that nobody in charge cares about this show or its viewers and fans. "The Breeder" is David Peckinpah and Alan Barnette looking at you, Surf Dance Chris and sliders5125, and telling you flat out, "We think you are worthless."

And yet... I think that when looking at a franchise, it's important to treat all of its past elements with love and respect even as you avoid their flaws. Tracy Tormé would beat me senseless for saying this, but I see no reason why SLIDERS can't do monster movies. Any story is conceivably a SLIDERS story.

But preferably, the result would be a SLIDERS story that happened to feature monsters ("Invasion") as opposed to a monster movie that happened to feature the sliders (Season 3). Admittedly, my favourite Season 3 monster is David Peckinpah.

In my view, creatures like the radioactive worm and the scarab and the breeder parasites originate from realities which seem to have been damaged by some cosmically indescribable event resulting in the (pseudo)scientific nature of reality having been bent and mis-shapen. However, I imagine that Quinn would declare that while the principles of science, logic and reason are bent, they are not broken.

In his view, each and every one of these supernatural and paranormal creatures operate on rules, just not the rules he'd expect.Understand the rules and the sliders can use reasoning and curiosity to identify a weakness.

In a real SLIDERS story that happens to feature a monster, the monsters themselves would represent insanity and mental illness and the sliders' defeating the monsters would represent the triumph of literacy, knowledge, ingenuity, teamwork and friendship.

Which is why, despite my utter loathing and contempt towards the rock star vampires, the breeder parasites, the dragon, the amusement park that feeds on negative emotions, the remote controlled car that shoots lasers and that... Cajero the Spirit of the Skys... thing... well, I accept that they are part of SLIDERS. The problem isn't the ideas; it's their execution and presentation.

3,917

(28 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I've never seen "Species," but "The Breeder" is an abomination. Even if you find Kari's objectification entertaining, the entire episode is witless, crass, clumsy, dull and deeply unprofessional.

There is absolutely no social commentary or satirical points made in the US Government treating the poor as organ farms; there is no effort to explore what kind of mindset produces such a society or to give any meaningful characterization to the people who live in it.

Dr. Sylvius written innanely and flatly as nothing but a malicious antagonist, completely failing to represent this world or its history. The plot deliberately and lazily avoids having the sliders engage with this society at all: they only seek out health care because of Maggie and the focus is on her parasite, not this world.

The sliders are portrayed as ineffectual. Quinn and Rembrandt inexplicably interfere with the authorities arresting a woman, and even if you set aside their total ignorance as to what they're getting involved in, they themselves prove incapable of rescuing the woman and are shown to be incompetent blunderers despite nearly three years of sliding.

The sliders are also portrayed as abrasively toxic towards each other and the world around them. Wade, expressing her emotional turmoil in response to all the death she's seen, receives not comfort from Quinn but verbal abuse. Rembrandt is offended when Quinn fails to check out girls. And at the end, our so-called heroes abandon an entire world to the parasite that they brought into this environment.

The entire production for "The Breeder" is inept by any measure of scripted and visual storytelling. The sliders leaping into the vortex is presented in a take where Jerry O'Connell misses his mark and visibly walks offscreen. The shot of Maggie assaulting the man in Diggs' bar is missing sound effects. Maggie is frozen at the beginning of the episode with no ill-effect on the parasite, yet freezing is presented as the solution at the end. The performances are pathetic as Jerry and Kari are clearly on the verge of laughing at this ridiculous script throughout.

It's very obvious that the creators do not care if their material turns out well and have absolutely no concern for viewer enjoyment whatsoever. And that and everything else in this episode is a complete betrayal of SLIDERS.

I'm not saying Seasons 1 - 2 were perfect television, but they demonstrated effort and care in crafting plausible physical environments that resembled the real world with a meaningfully documentary-style aesthetic in Season 1 that gave way to a more shadowy and vivid approach in Season 2 with great attention to set and prop design, sound, cinematography, blocking and performance -- as opposed to "The Breeder" which can't even render the sliders leaping into the vortex correctly.

Seasons 1 - 2 also made sure that despite the darkness and horror of sliding, it was livened up by Cleavant's comedy, the student/mentor relationship between Jerry and John, the heartfelt compassion of Wade and the friendship with all four. "The Breeder," in contrast, presents the sliders as so utterly poisonous that no viewer would want to spend any time with these people. If the worlds aren't compelling and the people aren't worthwhile, what exactly is the point of this series?

And finally, "The Breeder" turns the sliders into idiots and villains. They can't work together, instead fighting and arguing pointlessly and making every bad situation worse. They are incompetent in trying to save innocent people. Maggie murders several people throughout the episode and this has no emotional consequences for her, presenting a crassly indifferent view to human life that is totally at odds with SLIDERS' original faith in the power of ideas to save people's lives. And then the sliders condemn this world to a fate they inflicted upon it.

"The Breeder" features a poorly considered script that makes little to no use of the SLIDERS storytelling engine and is the production is fundamentally unprofessional in all areas of television storytelling. If you like this episode, you are simply wrong. I can prove it with charts.

The breeder parasites, this script, this episode and the entirety of its contents should be put in the ground, dug up, shot repeatedly to make sure its dead, buried again, and then expunged and erased from SLIDERS history.

Anyway. I made sure to include the breeder parasites in SLIDERS REBORN, specifically on Page 2 of the second script ("Reunion") and the parasites will return again in the sixth and final script. I'm sure you understand why.

So what you're saying is that you do nothing for our common cause while calling for others to raise the torch! Unless your novels are some sort of long game to revive SLIDERS...

Hey! I'm busy scripting the series finale and planning a social media campaign for it. You try making TWELVE posters for SLIDERS REBORN when you have no new images and no photo sessions with the cast. I have my hands full on the Slidology front. YOU make it happen!

3,920

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

SUPERGIRL's Season 1 had 6 million viewers. That's double the viewership of THE FLASH's Season 2 finale. Assuming a one-third drop as fewer people watch CW and that's still beating THE FLASH.

I think SUPERGIRL is not really suited to being reviewed the same way one reviews a Marvel Netflix show or BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN. SUPERGIRL is a family show. Parents watch it together with their children.

I think we might scale down our hopes and aim for an online convention where the stars could participate over Skype and Reddit.

3,922

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

The ratings needed to be successful on CW are much lower than what's needed on CBS due to CW having much lower advertising rates and budgets; that's why SMALLVILLE had fewer viewers than COMMUNITY and was considered a hit.

As for the costume -- I'll wait to see it in motion. I don't love the yellow cape clips, but it might look good when it's under the right lighting.

Well. It's too bad you couldn't meet Cleavant. But the important thing is that I've finally accumulated a good amount of Prisma-enhanced graphics to run a SLIDERS social media campaign. I'm not sure what one has to do with the other, but let's call this a victory!

Also, maybe you could see how Cleavant Derricks has aged and take a photo! I've been trying to create images of the sliders at their 2016 ages. For this image, I added weight gain on all the actors and deepened the lines in all their faces, but I don't think it quite achieves verisimilitude.

https://i.imgsafe.org/6e97790736.jpg

Oh. Well, you caught me.

It IS the Azure Gate Bridge.

Well, I made the poster with the sliders looking at the Golden Gate Bridge with the all-lower case logo that I think is pretty sharp?

Ha! I wish. They're publicity stills run through an app called Prisma that turns photos into 'paintings.'

And what does he make of these ones? Were they worth the 10 bucks?

https://i.imgsafe.org/38bcf6e64a.jpg

https://i.imgsafe.org/4178d52122.jpg

3,929

(28 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Is this a serious question?

Never ask someone a yes/no question if you're looking for insight. I'd ask him what he sees his part being in SLIDERS were it to be revived in some form and how he'd like to play Rembrandt (experienced slider? Flsh out of water? Elder statesman or clueless oaf? Deadly serious or goofily comedic? Showbiz superstar or low-key music teacher?).

Also, does he think this painting was worth $5?

https://i.imgsafe.org/385d894caa.jpg

I guess I'd ask him to talk about David Peckinpah. David Peckinpah has become my primary area of interest for the time being, mainly because as miserable a show as SLIDERS became, Peckinpah's life was truly wretched and so much worse than anything SLIDERS fans had to endure. He fired Cleavant's friends, his incompetence made the show degrade to the point where the lead actor had no affection for it whatsoever, he permitted the show to become totally unrecognizable by the end -- and Cleavant was his friend. Admittedly, that says more about Cleavant than Peckinpah.

Send him here, ask him if he wants to rewrite his dialogue? :-D

https://i.imgsafe.org/6e975c2783.jpg

3,933

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Are you still excited even after this post I made in the Bboard issues thread?

maxcardun wrote:

It's like the guy thought Peckenpah was an absolute genius at story's and wanted to overboard with the science fictional aspects or what I like to call "Science Fantasy

10 Sliders at one time which is only ambitious if it's believable and unnecessarily bringing back both Geiger and Rickman, Quinn and Colon's parents live at Epcot Center, THE VORTEX IS PINK, Maggie is Blonde, planet wide epidemics can work at the speed of light with a knife prick, the Sliders start developing "superpowers" [...] not to mention the annoying Mary Sue character he made up known stereotypically as Janine Chen.

Suddenly, I'm worried. The finale of SLIDERS REBORN will feature:

  • 40 - 50 sliders

  • A pink vortex

  • A blonde Maggie

  • The sliders developing 'superpowers'

  • A spunky teenager who is Quinn's daughter

In addition, the story will have the return of:

  • The rock star vampires

  • The giant radioactive slug

  • The underground Morlocks

  • The animal-human hybrids

  • The super-intelligent snakes

  • The pancake parasites

  • The fat craving zombies

  • The dinosaurs

  • The killer robots

  • The Dream Masters

  • The amusement park that feeds on negative emotions

  • The remote controlled cars with laser cannons

  • Diana Davis

And the story will be dedicated to the memory of David Peckinpah and will include the sliders running a detective agency like one of Peckinpah's cop shows and a heavily action oriented approach reminiscent of Season 3.

Are you as nervous about this story as I am? Matt thinks I'm completely insane. God help us all.

3,934

(934 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Where was Thor during Civil War!?!?! Find out here!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPNBKT6JLSU

This is why I like the Marvel Universe. It doesn't avoid absurdity, it embraces it.

3,935

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 once pondered:

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I mean think about all the shows and movies you consider yourself a fan of.  Now how many are you willing to write fanfic for?  How many are you willing to talk about on a daily basis?  And how many would you be willing to say, "I'm putting my life on hold to devote to this?"

As an egomaniac, I assumed he was talking about ME. But I've taken a hard look at myself and the truth is I think about SLIDERS REBORN far more than I actually work on it. If I had obsessed over it to an unhealthy degree, I would probably have been done by last Christmas.

The truth is that I've regularly blown off working on SLIDERS REBORN. I've blown it off because my niece started talking about her dead dad and I didn't feel I could end that conversation.  Because there was a two week abstract theatre film festival. Because I needed to focus on my health for a bit. Because my niece needed to move. Because I had actual professional obligations.

I've tried to find an example in my life where I decided writing REBORN was more important than something else -- the only thing I can think of is a SUPERNATURAL convention that my niece wanted me go to with her, a convention I declined to attend because I was looking up San Francisco landmarks to put in the third script. "How can you blow off the event of the century to write fanfic?" Laurie exclaimed. "That's not healthy!" I replied, "How come it's healthy to set aside time for YOUR show but not mine?" I like SUPERNATURAL well-enough, but not more than I like SLIDERS.

This is probably SLIDERS REBORN slipped in its schedule. The original plan was for three feature-length scripts, a short prequel and a novella to be out and done by August 2015. In 2015, I was able to complete two feature length scripts, the prequel and the novella; in 2016, I have completed one 46-page script and will likely finish the final screenplay. It's impossible to treat this like a job; everything else will always come first, SLIDERS REBORN is like my equivalent of other people playing videogames. I will never put my life on hold for SLIDERS.

I'm as shocked as anyone to discover that.

3,936

(431 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

i recently did a re-read of the comic books. The M0vie Blog did a great retrospective of all the episodes over several years and recently completed reviews for the original Topps comic series and the recent Season 10 - 11 comics. https://them0vieblog.com/2016/07/21/the … ster-list/

Despite Carter's original intention to let SEASON 10 act as the equivalent of those STAR TREK prequel comics to a future X-FILES film, he set it aside. Likely, the chance to revive THE X-FILES as a TV show caught him by surprise, but he saw the six new episodes not as a finale for THE X-FILES but the start of a new run of episodes. As the revival was not going to be the standalone, single-installment production he had expected, the comics could no longer act as a prequel or post-revival sequel -- the revival would be its own prequel and sequel in its episodes. "My Struggle" aired and presented a version of THE X-FILES that was impossible to reconcile with the comics, mostly because in the comics, the alien invasion was real but in the TV show, the alien invasion has been retconned as a hoax.

Ultimately, the SEASON 10 - 11 comic ends with Mulder and Scully encountering an alien spaceship that warps spacetime and creates a window into parallel dimensions where they experience a brief glimpse of their alternate universe doubles in "My Struggle." Then Harris and his artists started a new series that, despite being presented as a tie-in to the revived TV show, doesn't seem to tie in properly at all. While the artists use the hairstyles and likenesses of the Revival versions of Mulder and Scully, they make no specific reference to any of the six episodes. The first five issues so far have been monster of the week stories and there is no indication whether these stories are taking place at some point during the six episodes of the show or at some point after the Spartan virus cliffhanger has presumably been resolved. The amount of time that passes in the comic will eventually make it impossible for the stories to have taken place inside the six weeks of the 2015 season.

The great shame of losing SEASON 10 - 11 is that this run had resurrected the Lone Gunmen and the comic seemed to have real creative freedom in advancing and developing THE X-FILES characters and concepts, all of which would now sadly be discarded with the relaunched X-FILES comic.

But so far, the transition has been gentle; one could easily imagine these relaunched issues to be set in SEASON 10 - 11's continuity as Harris has avoided any direct contradictions; for example, the Lone Gunmen are presumably dead again, but Harris simply avoids mentioning them.

Harris seems to retain a certain creative freedom: issues #4 - 5 delved into Scully's family history. Issue #6 will apparently kick off a myth-arc storyline involving the Syndicate. Harris described his comic as "a sidecar experience" where he wouldn't expect to tie into the TV show's plots, but would try to tell strong X-FILES stories and maintain the atmosphere, style and characterization of his SEASON 10 - 11 comics.

One would expect Harris' X-FILES to read like what the Topps series degenerated into, but Harris has for five issues created at least the illusion that he can build and develop Mulder and Scully as he sees fit -- and apparently, he can still get into the myth-arc somehow. A part of me is wondering if these comics are still set in the SEASON 10 to 11 continuity and have simply adopted the Revival hairstyles for the time being, with the Harris-continuity to potentially return at some point. It's an interestingly low-key solution to a high-tension problem.

3,937

(58 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I'm not sure why the Bboard is forcing everyone to answer the questions; I've disabled that for now and I'll watch to see if this leads to more spambot registrations.

As for Slidemania -- well, it is fanfic. Professional grade writing should be seen as a wonderful surprise rather than a basic requirement. I adore crazy fanfic. These are fans expressing their passion; they may not necessarily have the skill to create an enjoyable product, but the fact that they put their stuff out there is to be admired. Slider_Quinn21's vision of SLIDERS in his series was an extension of the Sci-Fi Channel years but with the original-cast and early-season elements blended with the latter-era sliders and storylines, presenting SLIDERS' tangled web as a beautiful tapestry. Slidemania's vision of SLIDERS was very fantasy-oriented, but any story is conceivably a SLIDERS story.

One favourite fanfic of mine is a sequel to "This Slide of Paradise" where Arturo tracks the gang to the world of animal human hybrids and spends an episode wandering around the forest set of that episode.

3,938

(934 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think it's hilarious how so many articles highlight Dan Harmon's lack of superhero series when he was clearly writing COMMUNITY as a superhero show; the show tapped into the absurdity of a multi-genre superhero universe and treated each of the characters like superhero characters, often posing them to create iconic imagery.

These days, I find myself looking at Seasons 3 - 5 as a picture of David Peckinpah's addiction reignited after his teenaged son's death made him relapse after two decades of sobriety.

Season 3 is the cocaine high. Everything's mad and random and crazy and driven by one's basest impulses in any direction -- nightclubs and sex and explosions akin to riding the top of a supersonic train or high-excitement motorcycle chases -- but with an ugly, dehumanizing edge if you look closely where people and relationships don't matter, only the thrill of the drug. People who seem to be a buzzkill get dumped in the trash or blown up.

But then the high isn't enough and the addict wants  drugs that go even deeper into the psyche to feed the need for escape -- the miserable monster movies that were "The Breeder" and "Stoker" and "This Slide of Paradise" are a heroin injection, going into depressants that leave one in a state of euphoric bliss. But in truth, anyone sober looking at the heroin addict would see human body that's little more than a corpse that isn't dead yet.

Then we come to Season 4, where it's now all about combining heroin and cocaine into speedballs, resulting in more euphoria that is, however, socially vacant and emotionally dead; there's no real friendships or relationships through heroin and cocaine. The physicality of the bliss these drugs induce has no emotional love or care or fondness or compassion or heart behind it; the body may feel joyous, but the spirit is deadened and empty, much like Jerry O'Connell's performance.

And then we come to Season 5 -- the drugs aren't for pleasure anymore. The constant anesthetic use has created tolerance and painful withdrawal symptoms in their absence; injecting and inhaling has simply become the joyless routine of "The Great Work" and "Java Jive" and the isolating nature of the drugs has left Peckinpah bleak, adrift and alone, going through the motions without even the extremity that made Season 3 a compelling trainwreck. Season 5 is just filling out the time to get through 18 episodes. Then the show died and David Peckinaph had nowhere left to direct his grief aside from his veins. Shattered and alone, he plunged speedball after speedball into himself until his heart gave out. I have nothing but sympathy for the poor man. Peckinpah and SLIDERS on his watch are symptoms of a terrible disease.

I once pondered where bad TV producers go when they die. Temporal Flux says they go to development hell. Most SLIDERS fans say they burn in actual hell. Informant remarked that regardless of whether Peckinpah is in heaven or hell, what he left behind is many terrible hours of television. Those hours speak to how truly sad, lost and alone he must have been.

Anyway. My final SLIDERS script will be a tribute to David Peckinpah and the ideas he introduced into the show.

3,940

(58 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Bah! Earth214 is over! It's had its time! All the action is over at SLIDERS REBORN now! Earth214 is a dinosaur!

No, I'm just kidding. Earth214 is a charming piece of work, but it was written by a teenager. SLIDERS REBORN is written by an adult who thinks like a teenager. When reading Earth214, I felt that the writing was terrible but the underlying concept, intentions, plots, ideas and overall direction were very well thought out -- it's just that the ability to deliver all that in an engaging, convincing and stirring format wasn't quite there yet. It's like Slider_Quinn21 had the raw talent but needed a few more English classes and maybe some screenwriting software. SQ21 says he's done with 214, but I still maintain that going through and rewriting it -- not the story, but the language and descriptions and dialogue -- would turn it from a charming artifact of youth into something very strong. Earth214 is like a very rough statue that just needs a few more sessions to finish chiseling it into something spectacular.

3,941

(934 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think that making a previously Caucasian character black allows SPIDER-MAN HOMECOMING to get some media buzz, make some headlines, spark some chatter and raise the profile in a way the casting wouldn't if they cast Dove Cameron or Sabrina Carpenter to be Mary Jane.

(Yes, I watch LIV AND MADDIE and GIRL MEETS WORLD. Arrested adolescent here.)

3,942

(934 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

As a Spider-Man obsessive, I cannot begin to express my complete and total indifference to Mary Jane being black. Mary Jane was created as a feminine representation of Stan Lee's extremely vague idea of what hippies were like, except his ignorance of drug culture led to him writing Mary Jane being a fountain of random non-sequiturs and making her name a euphemism for marijuana and presenting this as Mary Jane's natural personality whereas the hippies Stan based this character on were likely hallucinating on LSD and mushrooms.

Since then, Mary Jane has faded away and been replaced by various different characters with the same name and hair colour, so making Mary Jane black doesn't matter much to me when the original Mary Jane isn't in any way workable in this century.

To me, "Stoker" is another exercise in mutilating a once-great science fiction series into an unprofessional abomination of hackwork and stupidity -- and I am dreading rewatching it. I have to, you see, to finish my final SLIDERS script. I'm putting it off for as long as humanly possible, but the script pages where I must describe the rock star vampires accurately comes closer and closer and I am terrified at the prospect of having to sit through this miserable insult to the intelligence that masquerades as a professional product.

I'm also going to have to rewatch "Dragonslide," "The Fire Within," "Paradise Lost," "The Last of Eden," "Sole Survivors," "The Breeder" and "This Slide of Paradise" and I honestly don't even know if I'll come out of this alive.

I think it's just the production order that puts "Stoker" earlier. There is no reason "Stoker" needs to be seen before "Dinoslide," but there's also no reason see "Stoker" or "Dinoslide" at all. *shudders*

3,945

(934 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think it's hilarious that Informant is so far up DC's ass that CIVIL WAR's 1.152 billion in box office and adoring acclaim with two second-tier characters is a fadeaway while BATMAN VS. SUPERMAN's 873 million and middling reception with two cultural icons is some sort of transcendent rise to glory.

... YOU WERE ALL THINKING IT.

(Informant is still a brilliant writer, novelist and critic.)

On one level, I think the idea of watching Season 1 in the wrong order for no reason whatsoever is absolutely baffling. On another, I did get a whole novella out of the wrong order, so sure. I wouldn't want SLIDERS to be immortalized this way, though.

3,947

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

If you replaced Thor and Hulk in Informant's argument with Black Widow and Hawkeye, it makes more sense? As far as AVENGERS goes, at least.

3,948

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

So, is that doing it properly?

3,949

(1,098 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I dunno. SUICIDE SQUAD's performance is about what I'd expect from a movie centering on villains who are not cultural icons with a cast that's well known but hardly a box office draw. I adore Will Smith, but he's not exactly the box office giant he used to be. I don't know why anyone would have expected it to do any better than it is right now. Looking to SUICIDE SQUAD to be the next STAR WARS is like expecting SLIDERS REBORN to be the next HUCKLEBERRY FINN. It's a smaller movie for a smaller audience.

That said, while the reshoots don't bother Informant, the general consensus is that the film seems to suffer from severe re-editing and that it has schizophrenic pacing and a confused tone.

3,950

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

But is this course of logic acceptable to Informant?

3,951

(759 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I was writing a scene in the final SLIDERS REBORN script and I wanted to have a moment where the enemy contemptuously describes the reality of SLIDERS REBORN as fan fiction -- something worthless and forgettable and not real -- in order to justify his wish to destroy and replace it. I wanted to put this in because Matt has occasionally and very correctly dismissed SLIDERS REBORN as non-canonical fanfic ("Wade is dead, god damn it" / "You're worried about becoming apocryphal? You already are.") and I wanted to address that to some degree by having a character say it.

"This reality you're fighting so hard to defend -- it's not real. It's a sham and a fraud, you must know that by now. You've seen rock star vampires and radioactive slugs, for God's sake. You weren't reborn; you're living in a diseased and dying existence and this world, your friends, your daughter, your mother, your home -- it's just the patient's last muscle spasm. The final burst of neurons firing through the synapses before the brain shuts off. The show's over and it's time you faced the truth -- everything around you is just a mediocre fanfic to make yourself feel better."

Naturally, every 3 sentences or so are interspersed with Quinn getting punched in the face. But Matt HATES lampshades! He calls them LAMEshades. (He never has, but I'm sure he does.) But what does Informant think!? :-D

3,952

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I think Slider_Quinn21 is really onto something with the idea that the Reverse Flash's alterations to history resulted in the ARROWverse lacking Supergirl and Superman, but I think the idea of the Reverse Flash doing one thing in SUPERGIRL's continuity and something else in the ARROWverse is too complicated for a television show.

I think a simpler route might be preferable while still using Slider_Quinn21's ideas: specifically, SUPERGIRL is the original timeline without Thawne's interference or any changes in history wrought by Thawne and the Flash's battles across time. But when Thawne killed Nora Allen and assumed Harrison Wells' identity, he also used his knowledge of the future to (a) divert Kara's pod into the sun to kill her (b) depower Clark Kent and (c) also eliminate or interfere with the origin stories of any metahumans who might have interfered with his plans.

In addition, Thawne's drive to build the particle accelerator at an earlier point caused certain people to meet resulting in specific individuals being born -- Caitlin and Cisco -- whereas the original Harrison Wells built the particle accelerator much, much later in life (and Thawne stole his identity to build it "sooner"). That's why Caitlin and Cisco exist on Earth 2 (where Harry built the accelerator with the same drive as his Earth 1 impostor) but don't exist in SUPERGIRL's universe (where the real Wells is building the accelerator at a slower pace).

This would be a way to deepen Thawne's evil; he didn't just alter Barry's life into an existence where his father was in jail for his mother's murder -- he created a world without Superman and Supergirl. Meanwhile, the original timeline carries on as a separate, parallel track in SUPERGIRL (which is a timeline where Barry was much older when he became the Flash, so old he looked more like John Wesley Shipp than Grant Gustin).

When Eddie killed himself and erased Thawne's existence, everyone's memories of Thawne were still intact, Barry's mother was still dead, and the paradoxical nature of the timeline resulted in the black hole and the portals to Earth 2. And now Barry has gone back and stopped Thawne from changing history when the universe seemed to crack from Thawne's forcible removal from the relative present day -- which could mean that the FLASHPOINT reality we'll see in the Season 3 reality is a mixture of the post-erasure timeline (Cisco and Caitlin) along with the original timeline (Supergirl and Superman).

So maybe by the end of FLASHPOINT, the SUPERGIRL and ARROWverse timelines are restored into one, but some of the Thawne-created scar tissue (all the ARROWverse characters) remain intermixed with the present day SUPERGIRL timeline.

Actually, this may be more complicated than Slider_Quinn21's approach. How to distill it --

THAWNE: "This world isn't real, FLASH!"
BARRY: "This is the world we'd have if you'd never touched it -- "
THAWNE: "This deranged wonderland's a mismash of overlapping timelines! You think your parents were the only people I took out of the equation? I didn't just make you the Flash, I made you *my* Flash, I couldn't have any other influences on poor little Barry Allen, so desperate for a mentor. So I had to take away anyone who might have interfered -- a certain Kryptonian had to lose his powers, a little pod in space had to be diverted into the sun -- "
BARRY: "Kara -- there's no Kara on my world because you killed her -- "
THAWNE: "And there was no Cisco or Caitlin until I made them the same way I made you! If they're here, then this isn't the world without me, Flash, this is every bit the world I made except you've let it all go mad -- "

I dunno. It's a bit much. But while this unfolds on THE FLASH, I would have Winn over on SUPERGIRL inexplicably mention that he once met Felicity briefly, Cat would mention Oliver as a one night fling and in ARROW, the Martian Manhunter should show up in one of Oliver's flashbacks. Then FLASHPOINT ends and we realize the ARROW and SUPERGIRL episodes took place after the FLASHPOINT conclusion merged the timelines.

Oh, I love how Grant Gustin thinks that Barry would be head over heels in love with Kara Danvers while Melissa Benoist is of the opinion that Kara is too similar to Barry for there to be effective chemistry.  I think that the characters should have exactly the same viewpoints with Barry smitten with a Supergirl who thinks of him as a buddy.

3,953

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

*sigh*

Well, Slider_Quinn21 suggested that Barry's time travel paradox ripped open the walls of reality and drew Kara's Earth into Barry's Earth and the collision resulted in their realities being merged. We've already seen that time paradoxes, in Season 1, open rifts between realities. So, at the end of Season 2, reality became unstable -- a bit like -- so there's two jars of candy; jelly beans and chocolate! And Barry knocked over the jar of jelly beans and broke the jar, so he swept them all up and put them in with the chocolate to hold them and... and...

Anyway. I'd have all the heavy lifting happen in THE FLASH and have Season 2 of SUPERGIRL and LEGENDS and Season 5 of ARROW set in the merged reality, although the references to SUPERGIRL's stuff would be extremely low-key until the FLASHPOINT arc ends.

3,954

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

If I were writing for SUPERGIRL, THE FLASH, LEGENDS OF TOMORROW and/or ARROW, I would desperately want to avoid the need to create a device to bring Supergirl into the ARROWverse reality every single time I wanted to do a crossover.

How many times can the Flash lose control of his speed and inadvertently stumble into Kara's world? How many reality-shifting mystical artifacts can ARROW contrive for Oliver to meet Kara? How much technobabble can LEGENDS contrive to bring about a dimensional nexus?

And the issue of the Flash being able to walk away from any consequence to Kara's world or Kara being able to do the same with the Flash's world risks eliminating dramatic tension and meaningful risk. I would seek to avoid all of the above by finding some way to cross over and make it permanent.

And the way I'd do it -- I'd do FLASHPOINT in THE FLASH episodes and, when reality is inevitably restored, I'd indicate that little changes have been made that only Barry notices (like Pied Piper suddenly being re-employed at STAR Labs after Barry revisited Season 1). There are newspaper stories of Superman and Supergirl; there's a CATCO banner in the background. Meanwhile on SUPERGIRL, a Big Belly Burger appears. Winn makes a vague reference to having once met his equal, someone named Felicity, at a hackathon. Cat grimly confesses to a one-night-stand with Oliver. Over on ARROW, the Martian Manhunter shows up in Oliver's flashbacks but Oliver never realized his strange friend was an alien.

And in THE FLASH, Barry gets a call from Supergirl and is astonished; he asks how she came to this universe and Kara has no idea what he's referring to; she remembers their first adventure but has no memory of how they used to inhabit separate universes and some crisis forces Barry to just accept it. When Supergirl meets Oliver, she's intimidated by his reputation as a ruthless killer and Oliver dismisses her as a spineless goody two shoes.

History has merged, but the present is mostly the same. Only Barry notices, and the show acts like Supergirl and Superman have always been around.

3,955

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I love how Informant concedes that merging universes is never going to be a logical event but then reiterates his need for a sensible explanation.

3,956

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

It's hardly an exact science. Timelines get merged for corporate and editorial reasons, not because it makes sense. The Crisis storyline where Earth 1 and Earth 2 were merged wasn't done to make a good story; it was DC's attempt to follow Marvel's lead in only having a single timeline. If SUPERGIRL's continuity is combined with ARROW and THE FLASH, it won't be the natural course of events (how could it be?). It'll be in order to increase the cross-marketing opportunities, widen the CW superhero brand and expand their banner.

I think it would be a good move in that ARROW, THE FLASH, LEGENDS and SUPERGIRL belong together as they're made by the same teams? But it won't ever make logical sense, much in the same way resurrecting Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt and Arturo would be absurd and illogical.

3,957

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

The thing is....Barry said that none of the people he knew existed in Kara's world.  So when they merge, how would that work?  If Kara and Company cross over as-is, would the population of the Earth double?  Would some people merge?  If so, are we going to have billions of Mallorys?

If we really had to address it, I guess they could steal an idea from JLA/AVENGERS where the DC heroes observe that the Marvel Universe Earth is physically smaller than DC's Earth (which has lots of additional, fictional cities) and so the merged Earth has a larger size and a larger population. I imagine that people would either exist with altered histories from the merging or be erased.

There's a neat issue of ASTRO CITY where a man is constantly dreaming of a woman he never knew; a phantom-like superhero reveals to him that there was one of those Crisis-type events and this poor man's wife was erased from existence, and the hero offers to either erase memories of the woman entirely or leave the man the way he is. The man prefers to remember and live with the loss.

Honestly, this problem is bugging ME, too, on a personal level.

3,958

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I've fallen behind my DC REBIRTH reading -- I usually don't read comics until a massive event has ended an era the way I recently read all the NEW 52 comics. So, correct me if I'm wrong -- but wasn't the whole point of DC UNIVERSE REBIRTH that Dr. Manhattan from WATCHMEN is the villain who merged the DC and Wildstorm universes?

Also, and correct me again, but wasn't the crazed timeline of FLASHPOINT the result of the temporal shockwave caused by Barry altering time by saving his mother? The world that resulted wasn't the result of Barry saving his mother, but I don't remember it being Pandora's doing either: she observes Barry stopping himself and allows it; she also, in DC UNIVERSE REBIRTH, declares Dr. Manhattan to be a cold, hateful monstrosity who has stolen hope, joy and love from the DC Universe.

Again, your degrees in comicology vastly dwarf mine, so maybe I missed an issue?

3,959

(1,683 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Rumour has it that Flashpoint will merge the SUPERGIRL and ARROW/FLASH into a single continuity.

I think that sounds much tidier than having Supergirl cast into the ARROWverse? But it's potentially very confusing and needs to be handled in a careful fashion akin to FRINGE's soft touch in its fourth season as opposed to how unrecognizable SLIDERS became by changing locations.

3,960

(3 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I agree and disagree. Quinn was very effective as one member of an ensemble; he worked better when he wasn't the default leading man, the actor's influence was badly handled -- yeah! However, I disagree that he isn't interesting, although interest is ultimately a personal value and not an objective measure.

I don't know how deliberate a role Jerry played in the way Quinn shifted. In Seasons 1 - 2, Jerry ignored the scripts regularly and played a shy, awkward character as confident and winning.

But the producers and writers made it so that Jerry O'Connell being athletic, confident and attractive was just one facet of the character -- Jerry O'Connell is a mask that Quinn wears to hide the turmoil and damage behind it. In Season 3, there seemed to be none of this adjustment and modulation and the Jerry persona became the entire character. In Season 4, we seemed to lose both Jerry's personality and Quinn in the performance.

Jim Phelps, to me, is absolutely fascinating because he always seemed to have a plan, he was able to anticipate every potential complication and prepare a countermeasure with a near-psychic mastery of his situations. You could always count on him to find a way. And there were so many ways his master-planning could play out: he could be cold and ruthless or he could be determinedly humanistic, he could be distant and aloof or he could be warm and avuncular.

All the MISSION IMPOSSIBLE cast were ciphers and it was the unanswered questions surrounding them that made them intriguing, and I found Phelps the most interesting of all.

This is something about me: I often find characters fascinating where others find them dull. Cyclops of the X-MEN and Captain America are often viewed as tedious squares, but I look at Cyclops and I see a big geekboy struggling to play diplomat and leader and I see Captain America as a soldier struggling with the conflict between his country's ideals and his country's reality. Most people don't see Scott Summers and Steve Rogers -- or Quinn -- the way that I do.