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I do think the media covers Trump in an unbalanced way.  Whenever I hear sound bytes from Trump rallies or speeches, they never include any of the nonsense that Trump spews.  I think, on some level, the media wants to cover the race "normally" as if it were Clinton vs Dole or something.  The problem is that it's not a normal race - Trump is showing a different kind of mental decline, but he's obviously struggling himself.

Here's the problem - Trump held it together on the national stage.  Biden didn't.  Every network could run a story on Trump's mental decline, and it would still be overshadowed by Biden's performance on the debate.  As an example, Biden's interview on ABC blew away the competition with 8 million viewers.  But 51 million viewers saw the debate.  How many different interviews would Biden have had to give to equal the same number of eyeballs that saw his rough performance?

And Trump lied a ton, but he didn't go off on a drunk uncle rant.  If he had, I guarantee that would've been the story, and you might've even seen some Republicans wondering if Trump should be replaced.

But that's not what happened so that's not the story.  And, again, some of this is on Biden.  He's talked for years about how Trump is going to destroy America if he becomes president again.  So you have a situation where the poll numbers aren't looking great nationally or in battleground states, and Democrats are starting to panic. 

It would be like if your local fire department put tons of ads on TV about how fires can cause household explosions.  Everywhere you look, someone was telling you that if you see a fire, your house is about to explode.  And then when you have a small housefire and you call the fire department, they show up without any water.  Then they laugh and say "don't worry, I'll come back with water in a little bit.  It'll be okay.  Trust me" 

So are you going to show up with water next time?  Can I trust you?  And why are you suddenly not worried about explosions?  Isn't there someone else I can call to handle this if you can't?

Maybe people will come back to Biden.  Maybe the polls are wrong across the board.  Maybe Biden's totally fine and can convince people he's totally fine.  Maybe he'll still win.  I really don't know.  But my house is on fire and I just want to feel comfortable that someone's going to bring some water before my house explodes.

Biden's defiance will take the entire party down with him.  This is the actions of a deluded politician, almost Trumpian.

I actually had the same thought on the clip that QuinnSlidr posted.  Biden was attacking the media and using hyperbole ("I did more than any president ever").  Those are things out of Trump's playbook.  Now maybe Biden's campaign thinks he needs to be a little more cocky and confident.  Maybe that's an intentional pivot.  I don't know.

I just wish the defiance made sense to me.  More polls are coming out that show that Harris might actually do better than Biden.  Michelle Obama was crushing Trump.  Heck, even HILLARY was beating Trump in a poll.  I think people are itching for a change.  And I want to believe that if Biden truly believed that there was a better candidate that could beat Trump, he'd step aside.

But I'm starting to worry that Biden truly believes that he's the only one who can beat Trump and that he's going to take us down with him.

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Yeah, I'm very nervous that Biden is being defiant just to be defiant.  I saw clips of Schiff and I agree with a lot of what he said.  Schiff was nervous that Biden said in his interview that he just wanted to be able to say he did his best.  But that isn't good enough.  We need to win.  And with all due respect to Joe Biden, he isn't going to live long enough to see the consequences of his actions.

Pete Buttigieg, who I really like, said that he wanted to run for president because he thinks someone should be in charge who will be alive in 2050 to see the long-term consequences of his actions.  Just like Jimmy Carter is alive to see the consequences of actions he did when he was president.  Same with Bill Clinton and George W. Bush and Barack Obama.  Even with the best medicine in the world, Trump and Biden will be dead in 10-15 years.  Not even a generation after they were president.

If Biden stays in the race and wins, more power to him for being confident and staying the course.  I just don't know how Biden is going to convince huge swaths of people that he's capable of doing this job now, let alone four years from now.  That's why I'm leaning towards wanting a change, even to Kamala Harris (who I like but not as much as I like Biden).

Whatever people don't like about Kamala Harris (true racism and/or sexism excluded), she should be able to try and convince them.  If they don't think she's qualified, she can present her qualifications.  If they don't think she's decisive enough, she can convince them she is.  I don't know how Biden convinces people that he's not too old.  I don't know how he convinces him that, even if he's not too old right now, he won't be too old later.  I just think that's a much harder hill to climb.

And if Harris isn't the best bet, maybe the Democrats light $90 million on fire and pick someone else.  I'll donate a decent chunk of money to get a war chest going for Newsom/Whitmer (or Whitmer/Shapiro or Warnock/Pritzker or whoever) and let the media give them as much free publicity as possible.

I just don't feel like Biden is using my money to make a huge gamble.  Especially since I'm not sure what Biden gets out of it.  If Biden drops out for the good of the nation and his successor wins, I think it helps his legacy.  I think Biden has a lot more to lose by staying in than he has to win.  So I just do not understand the calculus.

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I think Democrats will still be engaged because Trump is running.  I think enthusiasm might have dampened, but that will disappear as it gets closer.  There are very few human beings that I wouldn't vote for above Donald Trump, and that includes other MAGA republicans.  I maintain that Trump himself is more dangerous than most other people in the party so even if someone I really hate was running against him (like Ted Cruz), I'd vote for them over Trump.  MAGA Republicans are opportunistic cowards who are willing to do or say anything to stay in power, but I don't think they'd actively destroy the country.  Trump would.  I think there are exceptions, but I really do believe that Trump is a truly unique villain.

So whether it's Biden or Harris or Newsom or Whitmer or whoever, I think Democrats will show up and be enthusiastic because of who they're up against.  What I'm worried about is independents and Republicans that hate Trump.  We need all of them to vote for Biden too, and a lot of apolitical people I talk to hate both of these candidates.  I think if the Democrats ran someone that they'd never heard of, the freshness of a new person might be enough for them to vote for them.

I still maintain that's why Kennedy is still polling around the same.  I think, when pressed, people are willing to whatever the alternative is, no matter who that is.

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(I will vote for Biden if he's the nominee no matter what, even if he's in an assisted living facility).

But I'm really starting to get irritated with him and I'm not sure how he pulls out of this tailspin.  I get that he's qualified.  I get that he's done a great job as president.  I get that this is his moment and his decision - he won the nomination fair and square, and he's doing what almost every sitting president has chosen to do and run for a second term.

But oh my God, man.  He needs to read the room.  Everyone keeps saying that Trump is a legitimate threat to democracy, and if that's the case, we need the best possible candidate.  All options should be on the table.  And it literally doesn't matter how good of a president Biden has been if people think he's mentally gone.  And fair or not, ageist or not, that's where a large portion of the population is at.  A large enough population that polls have significantly shifted since the debate.

Can Biden win those people back?  Maybe?  I'm honestly not sure anymore.  Especially as Biden has grown more defiant.  He isn't facing the problem, and he's not even acknowledging the problem.

And I know it's unfair that he might get a chance to defend his presidency.  But he did it!  He's one of 46 people that have ever been president.  And it doesn't mean that he has to fade into obscurity.  He can stay active in politics if he wants, and every Democrat alive would be thrilled to have his counsel.  It would actually be honorable and doing his country a service if he steps aside and makes room for someone else for the good of the country.

Because the debate was bad.  The press now is getting worse.  An interview here and there isn't turning the needle at all.

Now don't get me wrong.  Harris as the candidate makes me nervous.  But right now, on July 6, I think a change to anyone would make me feel better about our chances.  Newsom or Whitmer or Shapiro or any of those people might make me feel a little better.  Maybe if Biden resigns and Kamala is president, being the first female president can be the reward it takes for her not to run ("I'm going to focus on being president the next four months and let someone else run").  I don't know how you jump her without pissing a bunch of people off.

But I know Trump and MAGA media would be scrambling to figure out how to attack a brand-new candidate.  It might throw their whole apparatus off their game as they've made it all about Joe and Kamala.  You might get a candidate who can spin some of Biden's more negative aspects (age, obviously, but even stuff like inflation and the border) into positives.  "I didn't fully agree with what Biden has done on (issue)" could be a powerful tool to get voters that are on the fence.

I get that it's a risk.  But right now, I'm terrified.  And if democracy is really on the line.  If the country is really on the line.  Then it shouldn't be about what's fair to Biden.  It shouldn't be about Joe Biden at all.  It should be about preserving democracy and preserving the republic.  Take a page from the Republicans and win.  At any cost.

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I think in that plan, the VP needs to be Whitmer or Josh Shapiro of Pennsylvania.  I think it should be someone who can bring in votes from a swing state.  Any swing state they can get "for free" they should take.  I don't think America is ready for a double female ticket (they're barely ready for one woman on the ticket) so I guess I'd pick Shapiro or Raphael Warnock.

I do wonder why the polling for non-Biden candidates is so much worse.  This was the results of a recent Ipsos poll (July 1-2)

- Pritzker is losing by 6
- Whtimer is losing by 5
- Beshear is losing by 4
- Harris is losing by 1
- Biden is tied

Biden is the highest rated candidate of that group.  What's the reason?  Well here are the vote numbers:

Pritzker 34 Trump 40
Whitmer 36 Trump 41
Beshear 36 Trump 40
Harris 42 Trump 43
Biden 40 Trump 40

So for simplicity, let's say this was 100 people.  If we use Trump/Biden as the base, then six people went from Biden to undecided when it was Pritzker.  Four went from Biden to undecided for Beshear.  Three went from Biden to undecided when it was Whitmer (and perhaps one undecided went to Trump since he gained a vote.  For Harris, everyone seemed to stay on their side but two extra people went to her and three went to Trump. 

Trump's support basically stayed the same.  For the two women, he gained a vote or two, but that was it.  So Trump's support was pretty flat.  So are those 4-6 people that didn't vote for Pritzker/Whitmer/Beshear just not sure who those people are and can't commit?  I assume if they ran for 4-5 months, those people would find out who the nominee is and go home to the Democratic ticket.

I'm not sure why more people are decided on Harris/Trump than Biden/Trump, but that seems to be the case.

Now here's the weird one.  Michelle Obama *crushes* Trump 50-39.  She's the only one who beats him, and she does it decisively.

Now Michelle Obama isn't running.  But it's a really interesting stat because what is she providing that the others aren't?  I would say she's as well known as Biden and Trump - is it name recognition?  She's probably more well known than Harris, and I assume she's more liked than her.  But is there something else at play?  And is that "something else" that can be harnessed in a different candidate?

That's what I assume the Democrats need to figure out.  What does Michelle Obama have that caused a 10% bump in her vote share compared to Biden (and a one percent DROP for Trump), and do they have anyone else that has whatever that is?

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ireactions wrote:

I think Biden is fine, and his debate performance was due to a cold.

I haven't watched the Stern interview yet (I can try and start it tonight), but the problem is that, even if this is true, there's no more margin of error.  If they decide to stick with Biden, then Biden has to hit a home run in the next debate.  Because the point of no return is coming up, and they can't switch him out after another bad debate performance. 

If it's, say, Harris...she can have a cold or be jet lagged and still perform.  An 81-year-old man battling a cold or jet lag or exhaustion or whatever is going to look even older and slower and more confused.  It's exactly what we don't need right now.

I think Biden can do it, but there's no more room for error.  He cannot stumble anymore...that is over (unless Trump has an even bigger stumble).  Can he do that?  Sure.  Will he do that, especially as he's going to have to try more events that are unsanctioned?

If the answer is no, we cannot risk him staying in the race.  It's too important, and honestly, if you look at the polling, Biden is only not winning by a ton because of his age.  If he was 60, this could be a landslide.  He can't change his age, but we can change to a person with the same temperament, the same policies, and the same path. 

The easier road is Biden.  The path is paved, it's beautiful, and it's familiar.  But there's a shortcut through the woods.  The road is more perilous with all kinds of pratfalls that could cause us to be done for.  But it's a shortcut.  Do you take the safe path or the shortcut?

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I'll have to listen to that.  I want to be clear, again, that I really like Joe Biden.  I remember watching him in 2008 and sorta liking what he had to say.  If I wanted him off the ticket, it has nothing to do with Joe and everything to do with winning.  Age catches up with everyone, and sometimes people can be really good at something and it can still be time for them to move on.  Especially in something as public as politics.

I have no doubt that Joe will live four more years and that he has a lot to give the country.  But he doesn't have to be president for that to happen.  If Kamala Harris or someone else wins the presidency in 2024 for the Democrats, Joe Biden would be a great advisor.  Just like Barack Obama has been a great advisor to Joe. 

I'm sure Joe believes in himself and thinks he can do it.  I'm sure he's willing to gamble that he's got one more win in him.  Which is fine...but he just needs to understand that a lot is riding on this election.  Donald Trump won in 2016, perhaps, because the Democratic nominee was handed the nomination.  Ego, I believe, played a part in that.  I'm just hoping Trump doesn't win again because he ran against the person who wanted it the most and not the one who would have the best chance at winning.

(The last couple sentences was, very much, me editorializing.)

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To be clear, I'm not saying that the race is over.  Not by any means.  Maybe Biden's fiery speeches get him back where he was.  He was in a pretty solid position to win a week ago, and it might not take much to get him back there.  Even if the polling was like this the day before election day, it wouldn't take much of a Biden-favored polling error to get Biden the win.

As I've said all along, even if there's a "shy Biden voter" that is saying they'll vote for Trump because they feel like that's what they're supposed to say with a statistically unpopular president, I'd rather Biden be winning and win by more.  As opposed to be losing end eke out a win.  Because unlike most American elections, if this is close and Biden wins, Trump could still steal it.  SCOTUS has shown that if there's any way to help Trump, they will.  So maybe Trump tries to get 5,000 votes thrown out, succeeds, and SCOTUS sides with him.  I don't want it to be that close.

The debate rattled me to the point where I would just feel better if a younger person was running.  Maybe that will dissipate with time or if Biden can knock the next debate out of the park.  Whatever the reason Biden underperformed, I just want Trump to lose.  If the with Biden or Harris or Shapiro or Warnock or Newsom or Whitmer or whoever at the top of the ticket, it's all fine with me.

We need to beat Trump and Trumpism.  We are so close to doing that.  And I just want to truly believe we're taking our best shot.  Not going with Biden because he deserves it or because he wants it or because something else is new or scary or whatever.  If its Biden, it's because it's our best shot.  And if it's someone else, I hope everyone can get on the same page and make that happen.  We might only get one shot at this, and it needs to be our best.

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ireactions wrote:

Slider_Quinn21, what polls are you referring to?

I usually scan the polls that came in on 538 (I know some of them are partisan but it's still an interesting exercise).  As I said, Biden had taken the lead nationally, in Wisconsin, and in Michigan.  He was basically tied in Pennsylvania, and he was making gains in Nevada.  Now, all that progress is gone and Trump has taken a 1%+ lead in all the swing states.  It all happened right after the debate so it looks like a direct result of that.

To be fair, they also did a poll against every possible Democrat that could replace Biden and Trump was winning against all of them too.

As I said, these polling averages can be fickle and maybe all these polls are worthless.  But it's frustrating that we were basically ready for Biden to take the lead (maybe for good?) and the debate performance appears to have knocked back all the progress.  Maybe speeches like tonight's will help.  Maybe the Supreme Court coming to Trump's aid will help.

I really don't know.  But I wish I felt as good as I did last week.

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One thing I haven't really seen reported on is that this doesn't need to be a messy thing.  I think the party needs to work on this in the background and make a decision prior to the convention.  If it's Harris/Warnock, cool.  If it's Newsom/Whitmer, cool.  If it's Warnock/Shapiro, cool.  Whitmer/Shapiro, cool.

But everyone needs to be on the same page and cheering on the same team.  This needs to be united front from day one.  "Biden is stepping down and here's the new ticket".  Biden, Harris, the candidates, and the non-candidates all need to be on the same page.  And in that case, nothing is messy and there's no issues.

* Not endorsing this as a plan.  Just saying *

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The post-debate polling is bad.  Biden went from a lead nationally, in Michigan, and in Wisconsin to losing all three.  Any gains he had in the other swing states is also gone.

None of this needs to be permanent, but it's really bad right as things were starting to turn in his favor.  Its certainly not over, and things could easily swing in the other direction, but they can no longer count on the courts to do any more damage to Trump.  They can only count on the country continuing to approve or Trump shedding support.  That's it.

Whatever they do, they need to do it quickly.  If they go with someone else, they are going to need time to familiarize themselves with the American public.  I think a lot of the Biden support transfers immediately to the new guy, but I'm sure there will be people that are hesitant.  But the people that aren't supporting Biden because he's too old aren't going to be convinced by anything.  The economy could significantly improve, immigration could be improved substantially, the wars in Gaza and Ukraine could end, etc and it's not going to matter.  This isn't based on results, it's based on vibes.  And that disadvantage immediately disappears with any of the people that would be running if Biden stepped down.

The coalition would be Democrats, anti-Trumpers, people happy with how the country is doing, and people that thought Biden was too old.  Even if those people are a small part of the electorate, it could make more than enough difference.

I support Biden no matter what.  If he wants to run, he's got my vote.  I'm just very nervous that Trump will win, wreck the country, continue to stack the courts with insanity, and more...just because Biden doesn't want to step down.  If Biden can win, Biden should run.  If Biden can't win, Biden shouldn't allow the country to be destroyed because of his ego.  I'm also nervous because we don't just need Trump to lose - we need Trump to lose convincingly enough that he can't steal this thing.  270-268 is stealable and that feels like Biden's ceiling at this point.

Biden's legacy is cemented.  He beat Trump, turned the economy around, ended Covid, etc.  He was a great VP.  He was a great congressman.  I don't think he has anything left to prove, and I don't think anything he could do from 2025 to 2028 would help or hurt his legacy.  If he walks away now, he can keep his head high.

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The Supreme Court effectively kicked Trump's trial to the American people with a 6-3 muddled decision by the weak John Roberts.  With Cannon blocking the case with everything she has and the complexity of the Georgia case, Trump will have no more trials before the election.  What a mess of the legal system falling over itself to protect Trump.

But it means this election is even more important for us and for Trump.  He has to lose, and that means that anything (including Joe Biden's ego and Joe Biden's legacy) needs to be put aside to beat him.

The legal system failed.  We cannot fail ourselves.

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I guess my questions is why Biden looked so tired and weak on debate night and then twelve hours later looked like a completely different person.  Did they give him cold medicine that made him drowsy?  Did he get different cold medicine the next day that amped him up?

If Biden will not step aside, is there some way to replace Harris without causing an issue?  I wonder if the American public would be happier with Biden if they liked his VP and thought he could be president.

Another thought experiment.  If Biden replaced Harris with Raphael Warnock or Gretchen Whitmer, would that ease people's concerns?  Could it help Biden get Georgia or Michigan, respectively?  Maybe Biden could promise Harris a spot on the Supreme Court?  Attorney General?  I don't know what it would take for Harris to gracefully take a demotion, but if Biden won't step down and people are upset with Biden for his age, I feel like VP is the only lever left to pull.

*******

What's frustrating about this is that I don't think people seem all that upset with Biden's policies.  It seems to be mostly Biden's age, something Biden has no control over.  Biden wouldn't have to retire from politics if she stepped down, just like Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are still active in politics.  Is this ego, or is this a career politician going with his gut that he's the only one that can win?

Because this election is winnable with a candidate that 72% of people think is too old to run.  If they pivot to Warnock or Newsom or Whitmer, I don't know how many people that are currently voting for Biden are going to be upset.  There's going to be less name recognition, but that may be the reason why someone like RFK is getting any votes at all.  "Anyone but Trump or Biden" could mean any other candidate the Democrats choose.

So you'd get 1) people that hate Trump and 2) people that hate Trump and Biden, and then it would just be a matter of getting people that like Biden.  I think you just have the candidate you pick campaign with Biden and promise to stay on the same track.

The more I think about it, the risk of moving away from Biden goes away.  My concern is for the Democratic Party to generate a ticket that no one voted for, but I'm guessing people aren't really going to care if that ticket wins.

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Yeah I thought it was bizarre and something Clark should be more prepared for.

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I think one thing to remember is that Trump didn't actually have a great debate either.  Not only did he lie, but he lied about things that are pretty easily verified.  That might've turned off voters in the same way that Biden being old did.  In fact, like I said before, those are two very similar things.  People know Biden is old and *looks and sounds* old.  People know Trump is a liar.  Which one bothers people more?

When Trump said that "everyone wanted Roe v Wade overturned" that's both a lie and one that's easily known by the majority of Americans, including conservatives, that supported Roe before and after Dobbs.  When he said that babies are being killed after birth, that's a common sense thing that most people wouldn't believe.

Trump could easily say that "illegal immigration is bad" or "the border is not as secure as it should be" and people would probably agree with him.  The problem is that he says that millions of people are coming across the border and are killing people in ways that we could've never even considered in our worst nightmares, and people can easily verify if that's true.  The population of Arizona is 7.4 million people.  People in Arizona might notice if 1 out of 7 people were illegal immigrants.

It would be like if Biden said that climate change is a problem and that 2/3 of the country is now uninhabitable.  Or that most coastal states are now underwater.  It's a real problem that a lot of people agree with, but he's now taken it to such an insane level that he'd probably start to lose people.

So if people care about the lies, that's one thing.  Biden may be old but he's also president right now.  A Biden presidency isn't a hypothetical.  It's happening right now.  And if things keep going okay, I think people will be more okay with more of it.

*****

I say this as someone who's now made a few donations to Biden, but the idea of a Newsom/Whitmer ticket really comforted me after the debate.  The fiery Biden we saw recently has calmed me down a bit, but we need to keep seeing it.  I think the Democrats need to think long and hard about whether they should go all in with Biden.  I'm voting for the Democratic ticket no matter what (I'd vote for Hunter Biden and any running mate) and I'll enthusiastically support Biden if he's the guy.

But as someone who wants to win at (almost) any cost, I think it's prudent to consider alternatives.  Especially after post-debate polls start cementing.  I love Joe, and I want him to succeed.  But this is bigger than Joe or his ego or his pride.

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Holy cow.  If this guy was consistently showing up, Biden would be crushing it.  If he'd shown up in the debate, it would've been a totally different story.

We need *much* more of this in a *very* public forum, and the criticisms of him will fall apart.

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Yeah, I'm hoping that's the case.  We need him to be this version.  Both as president and in the second debate.

Sent him some money smile

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(Please note: I'm still enthusiastic about Biden.  I promise to make a donation to his campaign as soon as I press submit)

My friends and I had a thought experiment.  Let's say Biden talks with his people and decides it's best for the country that he not run.  There was some rumor by some random person on Twitter that perhaps Whitmer and Newsom are in play and that Harris is mad that she's not.  Let's say that's all true and Biden agrees.  Let's also say that the Democratic Party does something and convinces Harris to come out and enthusiastically support the next ticket.

For the thought experiment, Newsom is the presidential candidate and Whitmer is the VP candidate.  They instantly come out hard, and MAGA struggles to tear them down since most people don't know who they are.  Newsom can stand up to Trump in a way that Biden never did, and looks young and charismatic.  Whitmer is able to run circles around Scott or whoever Trump picks as VP. 

How does that feel?  I know almost nothing about either.  But Whitmer is very popular in Michigan - does that seal one of the six swing states for the new ticket?  Does it feel like turning the page? 

Or does California (and hatred of California) ruin Newsom?  Would America still be too sexist to elect Whitmer if she's the nominee?  Are the polls right and people actually like Biden more than him (or Whitmer) or does Biden inherit all the Biden voters plus any people on the fence?

I think its an interesting thought experiment.  I think it would rely exclusively on everyone being completely on board from Biden to Harris to the two candidates, and I think it would all need to be announced at once.  But would that work as a thought experiment?

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QuinnSlidr wrote:

This will not change my vote one iota. It's still democrat - straight down the ticket.

Well, yeah.  This, forever.  Nothing about last night could've changed that.  Biden has my vote, and I'll enthusiastically vote for him.  One thing that made me sad a little bit is that Biden from 8-12 years ago would've wiped the floor with Trump last night.  He wouldn't have let Trump get away with any of that BS.  But he's lost his fastball.  Pitchers can pitch for a decade after they lose their fastball, but sometimes, people need their fastball.

I'm with Biden until the end.  I would just feel a little better if there was someone else running.  As I said, that person couldn't just be anyone, and that isn't happening in either way.  So it doesn't really matter either way.

Trump (Hitler) lied and lied and lied and lied and lied. That is not being on point. A true lunatic in every sense of the word.

Oh for sure (and I referenced that).  But I don't think him lying is good enough for Biden to score points.  We know Trump lies, and a decent amount of the voter base doesn't care.  The ones that do may not know he's lying.  Without a true live fact check, there's no way for viewers to know what's true and what isn't.  I assume well-educated people know that no states allow post-birth abortions, but I don't know if everyone knows that.  When Trump says garbage about the successes he's had, people may not know better.

What Biden needed was for Trump to not be a liar but to be crazy.  He seems to go on these weird rambling stories when he does rallies, and it turns people off (even MAGA people).  A lot of times, MAGA people leave his rallies early because they're tired of hearing him ramble on about sharks and showers.  Debates aren't really a good format to expose people to that, but it's the best chance that people have to see what a lunatic he is.  I was truly hoping he'd say some bizarre nonsense because I think that's the best way to peel off people from Trump.  They might even know he's a liar, but they need to also know that he's crazy.

There's another debate.  If Biden does well in the next one, this one won't matter.

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Grizzlor wrote:

Preface: Biden is losing on the vast majority of polls, some are stunningly bad.

I agree with a lot of what you have to say about Biden which I'm happy to get into, but you're going to have to share your work here.  I look at polls almost daily, and I'm not seeing anything like what you're saying.  Basically every poll has them tied.  Biden has started taking the lead nationally, in Wisconsin, and in Michigan.  Pennsylvania is basically tied.  If those polls are accurate and Pennsylvania tips to Biden, Biden wins with 270 electoral votes.

Georgia is still looking rough.  Arizona is closing but not great.  But Nevada is closing.  Biden has gained a couple points and he led in a recent poll there.

So maybe I'm not looking at the same polls as you, or maybe you're getting talking points from someone who's listening too much to Trump.  But even if I give you "Biden is losing in the vast majority of polls" (which you could argue is true), I don't see *any* that are bad, let alone stunningly bad.  The polls that Biden is losing, he's losing by 1 point.  And some of the polls have Biden winning with registered voters and Trump winning with likely voters.  Which means Biden's voters are more likely (irony acknowledged) than Trump's are.  That's the issue with the shifting demographics - Republicans picked up a ton of voters but they're people that don't usually vote.  The ones they lost (college educated) usually vote in every election.

********

So, the debate.  I think the first 30 minutes was a disaster.  And the first 30 minutes is probably the parts that people watched.  I struggled to stay engaged, and even some of my liberal friends dropped out early.  So even though I think Biden got a lot better as the night went on, I don't know if anyone saw.  Or if anyone is going to care.

I had two thoughts last night.  First, it's so frustrating that we're in this position because it was avoidable.  But at the same time, I see why we're here.  I think it all goes back to the VP decision, and I think they needed to pick someone with less baggage.  I know Kamala had the experience you'd want, but I wish they'd found someone else.  I know there weren't a ton of choices, and I don't know if Stacey Abrams would've had any less baggage.  But if they could've found a black woman mayor or state representative or something, they could've spend 2020 to now building her up.  The problem is that the VP choice is the obvious successor, and if she's not the successor, you end up potentially upsetting black and/or female voters if they'd switched to, say, Gavin Newsom.  Even if it was an open primary, I think it would've potentially cost you the election right that.  So I think everyone agrees that they should've gone with someone else, but if that someone else HAD to be Harris, I think Biden is the right choice.  She's already more unpopular than Biden with less experience and her own baggage.  Not to mention racism or sexism.

My second thought is...I don't know if this performance really matters.  Biden looked old and fragile, but that's basically what people already thought of him. No one's opinion changed on Biden last night.  Maybe people forgot he was old and fragile and his polling might dip, but if they forgot before, they might forget again.

Biden's actual words and policies and performance weren't terrible.  He didn't say anything controversial, and he stood up to Trump a bunch of times.  I think the worst part of the debate for Biden is that Trump never really went on any crazy tangents.  He didn't start randomly talking about water pressure or sharks or stuff like that.  I think the more senile and crazy Trump looks, it sorta takes away the advantage.  If people walk away thinking that they're both old and/or senile, that's a huge win for Biden.  And that didn't really happen.

Trump did lie a ton, and he lied about stuff that's verifiable.  MAGA people won't care, but I assume independent voters know that there aren't after-birth abortions in any state.  Independent voters know that Pelosi isn't in charge of the national guard and can't override the president.  In all the stuff I've seen, Trump's lies and Biden's age are being reported side by side.  Some people might be okay with Trump's lies but not be okay with Biden's age.  Some people might be okay with Biden's age and not be okay with Trump's lies.  But in both cases, I gotta think those opinions are already baked into to most people's decision.  If Trump looks crazy or if Biden lies, that might do more to move the needle.

So it was bad.  Almost worst case scenario.  But I don't know if it was a doomsday scenario.  Not yet.  But the pressure is on Biden in the second debate now.  Which might lead to a doomsday scenario.

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It's going pretty bad so far.  Biden looks old and Trump has been staying on point and not acting like a lunatic yet.

Still lots of time but I'm not loving it so far.

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I think that's totally fair.  I have considered doing a rewatch of Smallville, but it isn't something that I've been able to do.  There's so many new things that I want to watch that I struggle with going back and watching something that I've already seen.  My wife and I have been *very slowly* watching shows we think the other will like since our marriage started (as in we've watched 1.5 shows in 6 years), but Smallville is on the short list of shows we could do.  Considering how slow we are (or, more appropriately, the long gaps we do in between month-or-so binges), that might be the last show we do before we die big_smile

I know that Clark was a bit of a soapy character, but I still remember him being friendly and caring.  I think often to the final scene of "Run" where Bart and Clark race.  I think Clark genuinely wants to help Bart and genuinely wants him to stay.  I struggle to consider Cavill's Clark being that open or friendly.  Not only do we not have any scenes of Clark hanging out with anyone (other than his mom or Lois), but like you said, Cavill comes off as guarded.  He's probably the most introverted Clark we've ever had, and it just isn't what I want my version of Superman to be.

I'm not saying being introverted is bad, I'm just saying that my head-version of Superman is someone who is both eager and happy to approach basically anyone with a smile and something kind to say.  I think about the girl from All-Star Superman who was going to jump off the building and Superman talks her down.  That feels more like Welling's Clark.  I'm not saying Cavill's Clark wouldn't have saved her, but I wonder if he'd be less likely to approach and if he'd have to save her after she jumped.

The problem, to me, is that I don't think Snyder likes the traditional Superman.  He likes Batman, and he wrote a Clark that's a little bit brooding.  Who has a little bit of a darkness to him.  Who thinks its more cool to be a superstrong alien than a normal guy from Kansas.  That's why his Superman is in three movies and 1) dies in one and 2) ends up going evil.  I think a kindhearted, good-natured Clark doesn't interest Snyder, and that's why we don't get much of that.

And even if that's not true, the characterization of Clark that we're shown paints that picture to me.  Maybe Clark rescued a bunch of people after Metropolis.  Maybe he has tons of friends that he hangs out with.  Maybe he's outgoing and kind and friendly.  There's just not anything in the films to really prove that, outside of the fact that people seem to love Superman in that universe.  Lex, Bruce, and Wallace Keefe (the amputee that works with Lex) seem like the only people who don't trust him.  I don't think they'd love him if he was always cold and brooding like he appears whenever we see him.

And it's absolutely not fair to compare Welling's Clark and Cavill's Clark because their screentime is drastically different.  We get a couple hundred hours of Smallville, and Clark is on screen for most of that.  Cavill gets a lot of screentime in Man of Steel, but he's a secondary/tertiary character in BvS and he's dead for most of Justice League (even the 4-hour version).  So we spend so much more time with Welling than Cavill.

And I'll say this.  Cavill looks the part.  Maybe more than Welling and definitely (at least to me) more than Corenswet.  I think you're right that Whedon's version allows him to be more like a traditional Superman, and he carries it off.  To me, this is an issue with Snyder's interpretation of the character and not Cavill's performance.  I think if you'd reversed the characterizations, Cavill could've been great.  I also don't know if Welling would've been good in Snyder's version of Clark, but I just haven't seen Welling in enough roles to know.

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ireactions wrote:

How does Tom Welling's Clark differ from Henry Cavll's Clark in your view?

Your thoughts interest me.

*Please note that my fundamental understanding of Clark Kent / Superman is partially created by the thoughts of an accused rapist.  And I guess partially by a guy we all know who ended up being an extremist.*

To me, Clark Kent shouldn't give up on people.  Clark never gave up on Lex in Smallville even when Lex showed his true colors.  Clark wasn't naive about Lex - I don't think Lex would ever surprise Clark.  But I think Clark still had hope that his friend would return some day.  I think this is one of Clark's superpowers in Smallville - he has the ability to see the good in people and he refuses to give up on anyone, even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

Cavill's Clark seems a lot more distant.  He doesn't seem to have any friends at all.  He has Lois, but that seems like his only friend.  He doesn't seem like he's friends with Perry.  He's never shown outside of work with any of his colleagues.  I guess Bruce is the closest thing to a male friend, and they barely have any scenes together.  So when Clark goes evil in the "Knightmare" scenario, there's more evidence that he's just really mad ("She was my world and you took her from me") than any sort of mind control.  It's less Anti-Life Equation and more Anakin Skywalker.

In fact, Cavill's Superman reminds me of Anakin.  He really only cares about one thing (Padme/Lois) and as soon as  he loses that, he goes full evil.  He's heroic, but he doesn't seem to be in it for any particular reason.

And that's my thing with Cavill.  I think he's a really good actor, and he does a lot of heroic things but look at him in the scenes where he's saving people.  He looks distant, cold, uncaring, alien.  I feel like Welling's Clark genuinely wanted to help people.  I think he would have fun being Superman.  I think he would smile as he was doing it.  Even if he was concerned, I think he'd put on a brave face.

A lot of people point to Cavill's Superman killing Zod, but I don't think that's a problem.  I can't remember all 217 episodes of Smallville, but I know most of the Monsters of the Week ended up dead.  All of the season-long villains ended up dead.  Even some of Clark's friends ended up dead.  Smallville's Clark wasn't perfect or a saint, but I think he tried.  If the Battle of Metropolis had happened to Smallville's Clark, I feel like he would've either been seriously injured trying to save innocents, or he would've tirelessly worked to clean the city up until everything was done.

There's no evidence that Clark helped after the city was basically destroyed.  The city is cleaned up so someone must have done it, but I can't imagine that Bruce would've been so angry if Clark had spent weeks super-building the city back up.  The movies imply that Clark just sorta left when it was over (although Clark does stick around after the bombing in the Capitol so maybe that's not what happened - either way it's just something that Snyder didn't seem to care about).

So I'm okay with Cavill killing Zod.  My issues with Cavill are:

- Cavill doesn't really seem like he cares about people or saving them.  He does it, but it seems like it's a job, not a calling.  I think his view is the same as Snyder's - this is dangerous work and people are going to die (and that's okay).  I don't think Smallville's Clark would think that way.

- Cavill seems more alien than human.  I think Smallville's Clark embraced his humanity, even when he was exploring his alien origins.  I think Clark would think of himself as human, even after he found out he wasn't.  Just like an immigrant might consider himself to be American, even if he was born elsewhere or had foreign-born parents.  I think Cavill would consider himself to be a Kryptonian living on Earth.  And I think this connects to the first point.  I think Smallville Clark would think of saving fellow human beings.  Cavill Clark would be saving people that are either "under his protection" or, worse, inferior beings.

I will say that I also don't think Smallville's Clark would've been so adversarial against Bruce.  Bruce is undoubtedly an idiot in BVS because he does almost not detective work.  I think an intelligent Bruce would've found out who Superman was and would've gone back to Smallville to do some research.  BvS Bruce turns around when he finds out about Clark's mom, but I think Bruce should've *interviewed* Clark's mom long before a fight.

Likewise, I don't think Smallville's Clark would've been so adversarial.  There would be no reason to.  Clark doesn't need to intimidate Bruce or destroy the Batmobile or threaten him.  Clark knows that Bruce knows how powerful he is.  And since Smallville Clark wouldn't give up on Bruce, Smallville Clark would always come from a place of diplomacy.  He would've been talking the whole time.

Please note that this is all based off memory of Smallville (which I haven't watched since it came off the air) and Man of Steel (which I haven't seen since it came out).  I'm essentially writing off Clark's characterization from BvS (which I haven't seen since it came out) or Justice League (either version) because Clark is barely in it.  Maybe there are tons of examples of Smallville Clark acting like Cavill Clark.  But I know there aren't many versions of Cavill Clark acting like Smallville Clark.

I'm interested in your response as well.  Especially since I would be willing to bet you remember the actual Smallville Clark better than my headcanon, which could be being overly generous to Welling.

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ireactions wrote:

Well, if you're nervous, do something about it. Something small and achieveable. Mail a pre-debate Gatorade and a Red Bull to the White House, Slider_Quinn21. :-)

Ha, I'll just have to settle for another donation big_smile

Poll update (FiveThirtyEight)

- Biden has expanded his lead in the national poll average to 0.4%.  Basically insignificant except for my mental health
- Biden has also taken the lead in Michigan and Wisconsin.  Less than 1% and insignificant except for my mental health.
- Biden has closed the gap in Pennsylvania to 0.3%.  It was over 1% a week ago.
- Biden has also closed the gap in the Sun Belt.  Arizona (2.8%), Nevada (3%), and Georgia (4.7%) are looking better.  It would obviously be best case scenario for Biden to win at least one of these states.  We wouldn't want this to come down to a single state (or a single electoral vote) because even if Biden gets to 270, Trump still has a few (illegal) avenues to try and steal this thing.

But it's good to see that Biden is starting to take the lead both nationally and in the electoral college.  If Hopium guy is right and if there is some sort of error in the polling that will help Biden, then we're in even better shape.  But it's good to know that Biden is winning even with some potential garbage in the numbers.

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Some of this might end up regressing back to the original mean, but it feels good for now.  There's also evidence that Americans (non-MAGA at least) are starting to realize that the economy is either getting better or isn't as bad as they thought.  Which would be huge - I assume a lot of Biden's retreating approval and votes are economy based.  Even a small increase in American confidence in the economy would really help.  Same with immigration.

That being said, I'm getting very nervous about the first debate.  A lot is riding on it.  If Trump rambles about nonsense or has his own senior moment, it could hurt him with independents.  After all, half the reason people are voting for "not Biden" is that he seems old.  If they both seem old or if Trump somehow comes across as old and crazy, then Biden's advantage returns.

That being said, if Biden comes out looking old and/or feeble, then that opinion of Biden could be frozen and some of those voters may never come back.  Biden needs a strong performance.  That being said, apparently Biden has been doing a ton of debate prep, and Trump has been doing almost none.  If that's true, Trump could struggle and Biden could impress.  We'll see.  I'll be very nervously watching.

I'm not sure if it matters, but there's still undecideds and Kennedy voters that are up for grabs.

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For the first time in a long time, Biden leads Trump in 538's polling average.

- it's by the most insignificant margin (0.1%)
- Biden is going to need to lead by a lot more than that to win

But it feels really good to see that.

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https://x.com/DCU_Updates/status/1801255196393349609

Apparently James Gunn's Superman film will feature LuthorCorp.  Gunn has previously said that his favorite on-screen Luthor is Michael Rosenbaum's version (now he said it directly to Rosenbaum on his own show so maybe he was being overly nice) so I have to assume this is a reference to Smallville or at least an admiration for the Smallville version of Lex's backstory.

I do love the Rosenbaum Lex, and I do love the idea of Lex taking his father's company and reshaping it into his own image.  As a fan of Smallville, I think it's cool that the show is influencing the next generation of DC films, however small.  Welling is also my favorite Clark so if Gunn's version can also be more like him than the Cavill version, even better.

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Biden has been taking a national lead in some of the polls (understanding that some of these polls are partisan), and he's closed the gap in the last few days to within a percentage point on 538's polling average.  More importantly, IMO, this is due to a combination of Biden gaining support and Trump losing support.  Right now, the polling average has Trump at 40.8% and Biden at 40.3%.  So while it's possible that Trump is shedding votes to "undecided" that he'll get back, there's a chance some of those votes are going from Trump to Biden...which is obviously the best results.

The blue wall in the Midwest also appears to be tracking towards Biden.  The polling average for Michigan is basically tied, the one in Wisconsin is within 0.2%, and Pennsylvania is now at 1%.  Even in the Sun Belt states, Biden is gaining but still about 5% down in all three states.

What's scary about the blue wall is that it 100% includes the Nebraska 2nd district.  If Biden wins PA, WI, and MI, and Trump wins GA, AZ, and NV, the Nebraska 2nd decides the election.  If Biden gets it, it's 270-268.  If Trump gets it, it's 269-269 and Trump wins in the tiebreak.  So the blue wall needs to be 4 pieces, not 3.

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That helps.  538 came up with their forecast and when it launched there was a 52% chance that Biden wins.  They explained that, while Trump is leading nationally and in the swing states, the model takes other factors into play.

To me, I think the election rides on a number of things (not necessarily in order):

- The economy.  I think the economy needs to improve.  It seems like interest rates might drop before the election, and the stock market continues to soar to record highs.  I assume prices are going to stay high, but if Americans can consistently feel better about the economy, Biden will be fine.  I still think there's gotta be something that Biden can do about prices, but maybe there isn't.

- Immigration.  Does the recent executive order move the needle?  If not, would a drastic drop in immigration coverage over the next six months move the needle?

- The debates.  This might be the first time people see Trump talk in years.  Will he talk about the 2020 election that seems to turn off swing voters?  Will he ramble about sharks and other nonsense?  Will Biden be able to get through the election without looking overly old or feeble?  Any of those things could shift favor to Biden.  Of course, a Biden frailty moment could absolutely crush things so it's huge risk for both.

- The DC trial.  Will it happen at all?

- Which side can coalesce their base.  Can Biden get all the young people back?  Can Trump get the Haley people back?

- RFK Jr.  Can Biden voters who are currently picking RFK get turned off by him?  Can RFK get any Trump voters that are turned off by him?

If Biden is currently winning, these things can all drive more voters to him.  I think the things that can pull votes from him are basically a) if the economy starts sputtering or b) Biden tanks one of the debates or a major speech.  Right now, I think Trump has more to lose but I wish there was more losing happening at the moment smile

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I'm a little annoyed that the polls didn't shift much after the conviction, although there hasn't been a ton of polling since then.  I'm a little annoyed that the Supreme Court isn't releasing their immunity decision in a timely fashion when they know every day they wait helps Trump.

I'm not completely giving up because I think Trump will shed more voters than he'll gain.  I assume voters that aren't completely entrenched in one side or the other are giving Trump the benefit of the doubt, and Trump is benefitting from low visibility.  Outside of a major stumble by Biden, I think voters will either be annoyed by Trump, turned off by Trump, or find out about Trump's felon status.

At least that's my hope.  I've been pretty wrong recently.  I'm still confused how RFK is siphoning any votes from Biden, but that's still where we are.

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I don't understand that argument.  Friday Night Lights had the exact same situation that year.  They had a bunch of second-half stories they were going to tell but had to quickly wrap up their season.  When the season returned, they didn't go back to the previous year/season - they moved on (each year was a new football season / school year).  But they quickly caught viewers up on what happened, even filming some things that "happened in season two" that we didn't get to see.  As I said in a different post, they essentially pretended like the season happened and moved forward with the aftermath of the events that would have happened.  People that weren't together when the last season ended are together.  People that were together are broken up.  Games happened that we never saw.  A really big injury happened.

And that was because FNL was stuck with a format that made sense.  Time had to move on.  But Heroes wasn't.  They could've done anything.  Even if they didn't want to use Caitlin anymore or couldn't use the actress, there could've been a throwaway line where Peter mentions that he went to the future and either brought her home or left her there or whatever.

Seems like a lazy answer based on either forgetting to resolve it or not caring enough.

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Yeah I think the consensus is that Trump's crowds aren't as naturally big as people think.  In addition to people being paid, it's also a lot of the same people that travel from place to place

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Apparently Trump's final four picks for VP are Rubio, Burgum, Scott, and Vance.

Which I say....good.  I was worried he'd pick a female VP (he can still pick Stefanik but apparently Noem is now out) which could help him with conservative female voters that hate Trump.  I guess Scott could help him with black men (who he's aggressively targeting).  Rubio could hypothetically help him with Hispanics, but Trump or him would have to change residency (and I think Rubio would have to leave the Senate to do that) so I don't know how that makes sense.

I don't see how Burgum helps him electorally at all.  Vance might help him win Ohio (which could be slightly more tossup with the abortion vote there), but it could also potentially lose them a senate seat if they win.

If Trump was smart, Haley would be the pick.  I know VP matters almost nothing electorally, but I do think the VP candidates in both cases would be helpful considering the age and unlikability of the candidates.  I do think Biden would be slightly more palatable with people if they loved his VP.  Since people hate Harris more than they hate Biden, that makes it feel like Biden has no one behind him if he does die in office.

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I've long said that Biden needed to do *something* at the border.  When you look at the issue, Biden is incredibly underwater, and it's one of the top issues in this election.  And unlike the economy (something that Biden is also very underwater on), it's something Biden can actively do something about.  The people that think Biden's doing a great job on immigration (or the people that think he's not being liberal enough with the border) are a very small subset of the population and almost all of them are probably going to vote for Biden no matter what he does.

But there are tons of possible Biden voters who don't like him because of his handling of the border, and those votes are up for grabs if Biden veers to the right on the border.  And he's finally doing that.  I don't know if he did enough - both sides spoke out against his executive order.  Which may be exactly what he needs to get independents that hate both candidates.

I actually would've recommended he go further.  I would've done what Trump keeps saying that he was going to do, and I'd shut the border down.  I think this accomplishes two things:

1. It probably helps him with some undecided/independent/soft Trump voters.  If they start to see the good economy and start to get annoyed by Trump, doing something at the border would be helpful.  It could be enough to tip the scales to Biden.

2. It 100% won't work and it cuts Trump's argument at its knees.  Immigration groups could immediately sue, and they'd win.  The border would get open again, and things would move on.  Then, in a debate, when Trump says he'll shut the border down on day one, Biden could say he did that and it didn't work.  Then, Biden could remind people that he'd previously tried something that would've worked with bipartisan legislation and Trump himself shut it down.

I'm not saying it would be enough to flip the issue or convince MAGA voters, but that's not going to happen.  Biden just needs to move towards even, and I think that would've worked.

Will this work?  Maybe?  Considering how close the election is, it doesn't have to work that much to get Biden a win.

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ireactions wrote:

-In this day and age, there is no excuse for anyone not to check their medical opinions before presenting them.

I think the problem with this is that there's an expert willing to sign off on any opinion these days.  There are doctors who are willing to advocate for anti-vax concerns.  There are doctors willing to speak out against masks, against social distancing, against basically anything.  I'm sure there's a "medical expert" with a YouTube channel advocating for smoking.

And those are all credentialed people.  That doesn't even include the "experts" who are lying about their credentials.

I always sort of laugh when ignorant people say to "do their own research" but it's a Rashomon situation sometimes.  Depending on which path you take, you could come to two different concerns.  Both which could be backed up by evidence that seems to point to the conclusion you're looking for.

Documentaries usually seem pretty definitive, and I think we've been conditioned to believe them.  But there are documentaries that "prove" that 9/11 was in inside job.  There are documentaries that "prove" that the 2020 election was stolen.  Backed by video and expert testimony.

Fact checking is a useful tool, but people don't trust fact checks if they disagree with their desired result.  Twitter does community notes when people outright lie, but people just ignore them if they love the lie.

I don't think people are intentionally ignorant or dumb.  Back in the day, there were plenty of people like that.  But there was less information, and the information they received was properly filtered.  Now, any idiot can be on YouTube or Reddit or whatever and can spread their misinformation to millions.  They can be a true expert with a slanted agenda, or they can just lie and say they're an expert.  By the time you've found out which is which, your opinion could be slanted.

I don't have a solution for this.

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It's so frustrating to see a decorated medical professional harassed by a PTA reject who barely seems to have any education at all.

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Thank you, Quinn!  As I was so many years ago, I am inspired by you and will continue to believe in you!

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So I've come across a few people in the wild and a lot of people through actual journalism (I'm still off social media) that are either switching from Biden to Trump or just voting for Trump.  None of these people are MAGA as far as I'm aware.

The reasoning seems to be mostly economics.  They feel that prices are too high under Biden, and that specifically translates to the economy is bad.  None of the other metrics of the economy seem to matter, and the fact that Biden seems to keep saying that the economy is great seems to bother them even more.  To me, I think Biden needs to do a few things to reach these people.  I don't know if Biden wants to do any of these, and I don't know that him doing these things would help.

1. Biden needs to acknowledge that, while a lot of the metrics of the economy are great, a lot of people are still struggling.  When people are struggling and Biden and the media keep talking about how great the economy is, he's losing touch with these voters.  I think he needs to admit that the economy still needs to get better.

2. Biden needs to get across two messages.  First, that he's doing everything he can to improve inflation.  And second that there's not a ton of things the president can do to fix inflation.  I think people need to understand that, just because Trump gets re-elected, doesn't mean that Trump can just press the "make inflation go down" button and that's it.  I think there's clearly a disconnect on the economy, and I think he needs economic experts to make it clear that the winner of this election won't be able to fix inflation overnight.

3. Biden needs to make it very clear that he's not interested in raising the taxes of the middle class.  Trump keeps talking about renewing the Trump tax cuts, and Biden keeps talking about how he's not going to renew them.  From my understanding, he's going to raise the taxes of the uber-wealthy and corporations to pre-Trump levels.  But that most people won't be affected.  I don't know if that's true, but if it's true, that's what he needs to talk about.  If he is planning on raising the taxes of the middle class, he probably shouldn't do that.

4. There's gotta be something he can do about prices.  Maybe there's some sort of tax benefit for manufacturers that can decrease prices (or tax penalties for companies that are shown to be artificially increasing prices).  I don't know.  Maybe none of that is legal.  But I think it would be helpful to see Biden doing something.  There are legitimately people who think Biden is actively trying to make prices higher, and he needs to dispel that.

5. I think he needs to be very vocal about his economic plan in these debates, and he needs to try and nail down whatever "plan" Trump has.  One of the ways I think Biden can gain support is if he can show people that Trump doesn't have any idea what he's doing with the economy.  When he left office, his approval rating was in the 30s on the economy.  Now it's double that.  People need to be reminded of why they felt that way four years ago.


*******

I really, really want to believe the polls are wrong or at least slanted enough to impact the results.  I'm not there yet.  I'm still going to keep actively supporting the president and sending him money when I can.  I will not be discouraged enough by the polls, but I can't just hope the polls are wrong.  I'd love to see Biden take a lead, especially in the swing states, before I feel better.

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Convicted felon Donald John Trump.

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I actually really enjoyed the final season of Discovery.  I wish there was more mission of the week stuff, but I thought the season was engaging and fun.  I maintain that the future setting is a much better playground for these characters, and I thought the show ended up being a lot of fun.

The finale, released today, has a lot of fun character moments and a couple fun little reveals.  After not loving the start of it, I think it's a nice inclusion in the canon.  It just needed to find its true home.

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Hmmm, it's hard for me to say.  So much of Dexter was Michael C Hall's performance.  He was able to capture a serial killer and make him cheerful and charming and funny while also being terrifying.  The show was funny but also very dark.  Even if the writing is good, I think the actors have to sell it.

I'm interested, but I guess I'd have to see what people think.

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(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

This would mean that Slider_Quinn21's disheartened outlook is the result of the Republican strategy to flood polling with bad data in their favour, have the media report another red wave like in 2022, and try again to depress Democrat voters and campaign efforts and Slider_Quinn21's morale.

Interesting.  I hope he's right in the sense that polls are wrong, but I hope that no one gets depressed enough not to vote.  I will vote Biden as early as possible, and I'll continue to make donations when I'm able.

The thought of Trump back in the White House just makes me nervous.  I'm happy to pay more at the pump, more at the grocery store checkout, and more in taxes if it means a) he doesn't get to be president b) we the people get our day in court.

463

(934 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I watched Madame Web.  It wasn't great, but I do think something good was hidden.  Spoilers if anyone cares:

S
P
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S

Okay so Madame Web is convoluted and stupid and no one in the movie (the actors or the characters) seems to want to be there.  But I think some of the ideas in the movie really work. 

Ezekiel Sims is a dumb character, but the *idea* of Ezekiel Sims works.  He's an evil Spider-Man.  We are used to a Spider-Man who is good and willing to make the ultimate sacrifice, but he's also a guy who pulls his punches can hide in the shadows and drop on you from hundreds of feet in the air. 

What if that guy was a bad guy, and there was no Spider-Man so save you?  And what if vague future powers were the only thing that could save you?  In fact, no one gets super powers to save the day.  I think there's something there.  I think the movie just doesn't lean into this concept enough.  If it had focused on being a horror movie, I think it could've been good.  I also think maybe you just focus on one Spider-Woman.  Maybe kick up the gore in the scenes where Cassie doesn't save someone.

And since all the actors have talked about the bait and switch they all seemed to have experienced, I wonder if that was originally the plan.  You can see the bones of something different when you watch it.

Nando v Movies did a video about all the ADR in the movie that I haven't watched yet.  I'm hoping he has some answers on what it could've been.

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(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I mean he is the only realistic alternative.  And maybe people don't believe some of the scarier things that Democrats are saying.  But what percent chance are people willing to take that Trump's willing to cross the line next time?  5%?  10%?  Those are low chance odds but really dangerous risks.

He's already floating the idea of a 3rd term, which he also did a bunch in his first term.  What chance are we willing to take that he won't try something.  What chance he'd succeed?  What are the chance we're willing to take for us to pull out of NATO?  To send American troops in to wipe out the Palestinians?  3%?  5%?  20%?  What about deporting hundreds of thousands of people?  10%?  25%?

To me, it's a matter of risk and reward.  Does Biden suck?  I don't know, I guess it depends on the metric you're using.  Does getting Biden out help?  Maybe?  I guess it depends on what you're talking about.  If you're talking about getting prices to 2019 levels, the answer is that it's extremely unlikely.  If the answer is lower taxes, you get that with Trump.  The median income in the US is about $75,000.  Most people had about a 3% drop in taxes.  So for $75,000, that equals $2,250.

Is $2,250 worth throwing out the Constitution?  Is it worth getting out of NATO?  Is it worth deporting Americans mistaken for illegals?  Is it worth giving Russia Ukraine?  Poland?

I just don't think Americans are doing the math in their heads on the risk and reward.  This isn't "democrat" vs "republican."  If this was DeSantis or Haley or even guys like Cruz or Gaetz or Vance, I wouldn't have the same level of concern.  Trump is outright saying that he wants to be a dictator and already talking about a third term.  He's threatening to completely restructure the government for his own needs.  He's talking about things like eliminate the FBI.  He's going to throw out legitimate cases that are pending trial against him.

Is $2,250 worth all of that?  Is $2,250 worth any of that?

465

(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah I think there's reasoning why the polls might be wrong, but it doesn't really make me feel better.  It's a nice Hail Mary if the polls look the same way they do in November, but I'd rather the polling be wrong *and* Biden be ahead.

What's frustrating is that people seem to be completely ignoring all of Trump's nonsense.  Not just the trials but all of the crazy things he says, all the egomania, all the threats he's made.  They seem to be yearning to return to 2019, but they're forgetting completely about 2020.  And even if they miss 2019, they're just assuming that Trump will automatically fix everything to their liking.  Spoiler: the president can't make prices go down to 2019 levels.  The president can't undo the pandemic. 

Maybe the debates will help.  Maybe getting closer to the election and seeing more of Trump will help.  Maybe another six months of solid economy will help.

I just don't know.  I'm starting to lose faith that my fellow Americans know how to think through this.

466

(746 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah I'm not saying that it won't happen ever, but it doesn't seem to be happening anytime soon.  They've already greenlit some other things (including another reboot film?) and they're moving ahead with the Starfleet Academy show.  So my guess is Picard Season 3 either didn't perform or they didn't like working with Matalas?  Because I think if Picard worked well (or if they liked Matalas), they'd do Legacy before they did Starfleet Academy.

But maybe they'd committed to Academy and that's all they can afford to do.

467

(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

So I'm pretty frustrated.  Today, Nikki Haley came out and said she was going to vote for Trump.  I don't know what percentage of the protest vote we've been seeing was based on Haley's actual opinion, but I hate that she did that.  I hate the reasoning she used, most of which Trump isn't actually supporting.

I want to be optimistic.  I want consider how much polls underestimated Biden and overestimated Trump.  I want to think about those Haley voters that keep voting for her instead of Trump long after she dropped out.  I want to think that my fellow Americans aren't all crazy enough to vote for a lunatic wannabe dictator.  And, heck, I want to believe that even if Trump wins, he can't be as bad as I'm worrying about.  That we lived through four years of him already and that the system will hold and he won't be able to do all the crazy things he keeps hinting at doing.

But I am not feeling it right now.  Trump keeps leading poll after poll.  No one in the Republican party seems to want to stand up to him.  His VP potentials keep talking about how they won't accept the results if Trump doesn't win.  It's out of control, and I don't like it.  I feel like we're so close to being able to put Trump in our rear view mirror.  He's already slipping mentally, and in four more years, I can't imagine he'll be in any state to run again.  And at some point, the majority of Republicans will get tired of losing.

But if he wins, things won't go away.  They could get so much worse.

I want to be optimistic.  But right now I see the storm clouds on the horizon, and it feels inevitable.

468

(746 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Terry Matalas has been hired to work on a Vision show for Marvel.

I guess we aren't getting Star Trek: Legacy

469

(9 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

As for Batman's motivations -- maybe it's just me, but it seems to me that so many traumatic things have happened to any version of Batman in his life that it would be a little reductive to point at any one event as what sent him slightly off the deep end, whether it was the death of his parents or Alfred burning the bacon one morning.

I think that's totally fair, but then I needed a scene between Alfred and Bruce where they talk that through.  Maybe Affleck's Batman was always rough around the edges and always blurred the line between hero and psychopath, but I assume that Bruce was, at some point, idealistic.  I assume he was a good guy (basically, who he is in Justice League) and lost his way.

And if that's the case, I just feel like the audience deserved a scene where Alfred makes some sort of attempt to save Bruce's life.  Basically the same kind of scene from Dark Knight Rises where Alfred leaves.  He thinks he has one chance to save Bruce from himself, and he sacrifices everything to do it.

I don't really get Snyder's Alfred.  He seems angry at Bruce and disappointed in Bruce and seems to disagree with everything Bruce is doing...but he's just doing it anyway.  I needed Alfred to confront Bruce.

"Master Wayne, I work for you.  If you want me to help you kill yourself by fighting this man, I will do it.  And I will do it without so much as another complaint.  But I owe it to your father to tell you that you have lost your way."

"Alfred..."

"No, Master Wayne.  You owe it to me to let me finish.  When you started this insane journey of yours, I supported you because I felt like if you got it out of your system, it would be over and you could move on.  But instead of getting it out of your system, you got it into mine.  I saw the good we were doing.  The people we were saving.  But somewhere along the way, you lost sight of the goal.  The people you saved no longer mattered.  It was about the punishment you were dishing out.  And you lost Master Grayson and it got worse.  I thought some day you'd turn it around.  When you killed Mr. Dent, I thought it would snap you out of it.  When Ms. Kyle died, I thought that would do it.  But nothing worked.  Nothing helped.  You were consumed.  You are consumed.  And if none of that helped, maybe this won't either.  But damn it, I have to try.  You're the only thing I have left in this world, and that...man will kill you if you stay on this path.  Or you'll be so lost that you might as well be dead."

*Bruce doesn't say anything.*

"Okay.  It's said.  Now what's next?"

Something like that where we understand that Bruce was one thing and now he's something else.  Instead, it's all so vague.  We don't know what Bruce was like before or, if he's changed, what changed him.  Honestly, I'd be okay with whatever the answer was, but I just would've preferred an answer.

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(9 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I agree that Snyder's versions aren't that far off.  I think I have two problems with his versions:

- Snyder's Superman is Kryptonian first and human second, and he has a weird connection to humanity.  I understand Clark's desire to connect with this alien heritage, but he's been a human his entire life.  By the end of Man of Steel, he seems to have almost no humanity left outside of his love of Lois Lane.  After that, he has no human friends outside of Lois (and his mother, I guess).  This is one reason why many commenters think it was a mistake to kill Jimmy (and make him a CIA operative, I guess).  The only non-Lois/Martha/Bruce scenes are Clark being super alien and emotionless as he saves people.

My understanding of Clark is mostly drawn from Smallville and an alleged rapist so maybe I'm not the right one to judge what the "right" version of Clark is.  But Smallville Clark would've never allowed all those people to die in Metropolis in Man of Steel (or he would've essentially rebuilt the city on his own), and Smallville Clark would've figured out a way to help Bruce before things got to the fight.  Smallville Clark would've found joy in being Superman.  Smallville Clark would've been so obviously good that Bruce would've never had a reason to want to kill him.

- Snyder's Bruce is understandable, but I didn't feel like it was earned. In 7+ hours of Snyder's time with Batman, we still have no idea what set Bruce off on his dark path.  Was it Robin dying (and what happened there?)?  Was it Superman's arrival?  Was it something else?  Alfred seems to imply that it was just everything adding up and turning him to darkness.  Alfred seems to disapprove of what Bruce is doing, but he doesn't stop him.  If Bruce is willing to kill, why isn't the Joker dead?  Are all of Batman's other villains dead?  Why is Batman going out of his way to kill random goons but not their leaders?

I think this was a situation where we needed the context for why Batman is that way, but even in the extended versions, Snyder doesn't seem interested in explaining it.  Robin is dead and it's important, but he doesn't want to spend time on it.  Bruce is angry and violent but he doesn't seem interested in explaining it.  How long has he been that way?  What has he done to cross the line?  Has he even crossed the line or is this the story of him trying to cross the line?

Ironically, I think the Snyderverse would've worked better if he made a Batman movie first and introduced Superman in the sequel.  Snyder doesn't seem all that interested in doing anything with Clark in the sequels, and Batman desperately needed more backstory and context.  I'm totally fine with a Batman that kills and who's ready to kill Superman, but if this is a Batman that went down a dark path, we need to see that path.  To me, that's more interesting than him punching Superman.

I think I've said it before but they should've done a Batman movie before BvS.  I know they wanted to rush things, but they could've done a Superman movie, a Batman movie, a BvS movie, a Wonder Woman movie, and an "anthology" movie with the origins of Aquaman/Flash/Cyborg before the Justice League movie.  It wouldn't have added that much time before Justice League, and it would've set the universe up well.

Instead, we really only got a solo movie for Superman, and that was the only character that probably didn't need a solo movie (because once we got passed it, Snyder gave Superman almost nothing to do).

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(697 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

ireactions wrote:

I am not a Zack Snyder fan and did not watch REBEL MOON... but did it really look cheap? I always thought of Zack Snyder as only doing projects with lavish spending.

It didn't look cheap.  I thought the movie looked really nice, especially for the price that it apparently cost.  Cheap in the sense that it wasn't really even trying to be its own thing.  You can see the seams of an attempted Star Wars movie with some simple alterations to make it the minimum legal requirement for it not to be Star Wars.  One person uses lightsabers but not really.  The bad guy uses a Star Destroyer but not really.

If you think about it, you can see how it would've worked if it was a Star Wars movie.  There's some stuff he obviously added after it was no longer Star Wars involving a royal family.  But I think even that stuff probably could work depending on when the movie is set.

472

(9 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

To me, the DCEU failed for a variety of reasons, and I think Snyder probably gets an unfair share of that.  I think he's a talented guy, and I don't even think his movies are bad.  I think Snyder's biggest problem is that he doesn't really understand the characters.  Or he does understand them and thinks that the only thing interesting you can do with them is make them into something different.  We've talked this to death, but I think that's really Snyder's only issue.  And the universe tried to make it after Snyder.  Was the damage done?  Maybe.  But at the same time, a lot of the post-Snyder movies aren't any better than the ones Snyder did.

I think Snyder's biggest problem was trying to make alternate versions of these characters and making them the primary versions for a universe.  Even if all he did was take different versions of Batman and Superman (who had already had a dozen movies made about them at that point), those are two characters you probably need to get right.

Now if the DCEU was a success first and they brought in Snyder to make an Injustice trilogy after the characters had already been established, that could've been cool.  I think that's what makes The Maker and Invincible Iron Man and Superior Spider-Man so interesting.  But you need a standard version of the character first, or the "evil" version doesn't really work.


********

But, yeah, I tried to make Snyder's Avengers as much like Snyder's DC movies.  I just think it's funny that Snyder made three movies to try and get to the part he thought was most interesting (the full Knightmare world) and never got there.

473

(697 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

As I said in my alternate history essay, I watched Rebel Moon part 2.  It was definitely better than part one, but I still do not get this.  I actually think he took more chances and did more interesting things with Army of the Dead, and I think that should've been the project he hooked onto.  Robot zombies and time loops and all that is interesting (if we ever get those movies).

Rebel Moon is a very cheap knockoff of Star Wars that adds nothing.  It's just bad Star Wars with more cursing.  Part One is boring.  Part Two is more interesting (because it's the part of the story where things happen) but it's just Seven Samurai.  Nothing about it is original.

He has ambitious stories, but the problem with Snyder is twofold:

- He likes to tease things rather than actually get there.  He doesn't make a movie about Robot Zombies and Time Loops.  He makes a movie that teases those things.

- His execution when he actually does the thing he's teasing is underwhelming.  BvS is one huge tease for Batman to fight Superman, but when he gets there, it's just nothing.

If I were advising Snyder, I'd abandon Rebel Moon.  If he really loves the universe, give it to someone else to try.  Lucas only made one Star Wars movie in the original trilogy.  Own the story if you want but let someone else do the directing.  Focus on Planet of the Dead and that universe.  It might not be great but at least it's something new.

474

(9 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

I wasn't trying to base Snyder's Captain America on anything.  Rather, I was trying to think of what Snyder might do with Marvel characters.  I was originally going to make Iron Man the first movie in Snyder's Avengers saga like it was in the MCU, but I decided that if Snyder had his pick, he'd make Cap first (even if he really liked Iron Man more).  He'd see a boring character (to him) and try to add some nuance (to him).  I would think he'd suspect that Cap would be turned off by modern America and become jaded and disillusioned.  Just like he'd think its natural that Batman and Superman would kill bad guys, he wouldn't be interested in a Captain America that always tries to do the right thing.

And like he preferred evil Superman to normal Superman, I think he'd find Captain Hydra more interesting than Captain America (I don't even think the timeline works for that version of the character to be around but it's an alternate history).  And since I couldn't think of a good situation where Steve allows millions of people to die (like Superman does in Man of Steel), I decided to let Steve do something that I wouldn't think he'd otherwise do - let someone die so he can get the kill.

My issue with Snyder's superheroes isn't that they're bad.  I just don't think he thinks of them as being good guys.  They do good, sure, but good guys are boring.  So Superman has a bad side.  Batman kills.  Not because they have to, but Snyder can't see anything interesting in a story where Batman has to find a way not to kill.

My problem is that I don't think it's interesting for Batman and Superman to just be random soldiers doing what it takes to win.  A Batman who kills is more efficient, sure, but I don't think it's more interesting.

Of course, I also needed Snyder to burn through stories while teasing way more stories.  I needed Tony to just be Batman.  I needed Snyder to make a bunch of movies but never get to Thanos.

I wasn't super happy with my Ayer Strange, but I couldn't think of a good approximation of the Suicide Squad.  Something to introduce a bunch of characters and establish that this is a lived-in world without using any of the Justice League.  So I just said "well, RDJ looks like Dr Strange so let's just shoehorn him in here"

I was watching Rebel Moon Part Two, and I decided to grab my timer and find a special parallel dimension.  And I did.  I present to you Earth 32991.

******************

2005. Batman Begins is released, starring Christian Bale as the titular character.  The movie is a modest success, but it's enough of a success for producer Kevin Feige to get a meeting with the bigshots at WB.  He left Marvel after failing to get approval for a vision he had of a shared universe of superhero movies.  He wanted to try it at DC, and he was hired to be the architect of that vision.  The movie is rereleased for the Christmas season with a brand-new post-credits sequence where Clark Kent shows up at Wayne Manor looking for the Batman.

Over the next few years, the DCU is the star of cinemas.  Standalone films for Superman, Wonder Woman, the Flash, and Aquaman are huge hits, alongside the Dark Knight, a Batman sequel.  In 2011, Joss Whedon directs a Justice League movie.  From there, the hits just keep on coming.  From James Gunn's Green Lantern Corp to Justice League : Age of Apokolips, the DCU becomes a hit-making factory.

Marvel, struggling with its film division after the failure of 2006's Iron Man (starring Tom Cruise) and 2008's The Incredible Hulk with Edward Norton decides to go back to Kevin Feige's architecture.  After failing to get Feige back, Marvel finds Zach Snyder.  Snyder had success with a direct adaptation of Spider-Man: Blue for Sony, and they thought he could tell the right stories for them.  Snyder is given a greenlight for a kickoff film and a fast-tracked Avengers movie.

So in 2013, Captain America is released.  It tells the story of Steve Rogers (controversially played by non-American Henry Cavill), an optimistic man who is given the super-soldier serum.  After defeating the Red Skull and getting frozen in the ice, SHIELD finds Captain America and thaws him out.  Steve is eager to get back to work in the red, white, and blue, but he finds the world to be a great deal more cynical than the world he remembers.  He's annoyed that he seems to be doing more campaign events for the President than actual hero work, but he does it with a smile.  Rogers discovers a plot by Hydra to reincarnate the Red Skull and take over the world.  The film climaxes as an inauguration party in Washington DC is attacked.  Steve fights the newly reborn Red Skull and his Winter Soldier as they attempt to assassinate the president.  With only time to defeat the Red Skull for good or save the president (who Steve doesn't see as idealistic enough), Steve makes the heartbreaking decision to let Bucky shoot the president so Steve can use his shield to decapitate the Red Skull.  The Winter Soldier escapes, the new President thanks Steve for doing everything he could, and the nation mourns the loss of its leader.

Captain America is a fairly big success leading to the greenlight of Captain America v Iron Man: Civil War.  Ben Affleck is hired as Tony Stark (taking the role from Tom Cruise).  Stark is an alcoholic genius who has been Iron Man for over a decade on the West Coast.  He's been at odds with Nick Fury and SHIELD for his entire superhero career, and that relationship goes nuclear when Stark is able to find evidence that Rogers let the president be killed.  SHIELD won't let Stark release the evidence so Tony takes matters into his own hands.  Tony is able to find a secret Hydra sleeper agent program called Captain Hydra, which Tony believes has already been started.  Working with Dr. Bruce Banner, Stark works to defeat Rogers.  In the meantime, it turns out that Tony's trusted AI Ultron is pulling the strings, and he actually implements the Captain Hydra program, brainwashing Rogers to start working for Hydra.  Captain Hydra fights Iron Man and Banner, but Banner loses control and becomes the Hulk.  Realizing how he's been manipulated, Stark is able to convince Rogers to fight the brainwashing (using Steve's relationship with Tony's father as a link) and together, they're able to defeat Ultron and calm down the Hulk (with Tony bringing out his Hulkbuster armor).  Nick Fury (Joe Morton) appears in a post-credits sequence as he asks Tony to help him understand this mysterious hammer he found.

Civil War made a lot of money, but critics panned the convoluted plot of the film.  Comic fans were annoyed at the fact that so many potential story threads were burned in a single movie (Captain Hydra, Ultron, World War Hulk, and Civil War itself).  Fans were especially annoyed at the fact that "Civil War" really ended up only being a couple of people and not the wide-stretching story the comics told.  People also disliked how cynical Captain America ended up being, going against one of the main tenets of the character.  Snyder pushed back that it was a little silly for a guy from the 40s to still believe in today's America, and that of course he'd be cynical now.  He continued to fight criticism of Steve both killing the Red Skull and allowing the president to be killed in the first movie.

A Doctor Strange movie, directed by David Ayer, was released after Civil War with middling success.  People were starting to get annoyed already with the dour tone of the Marvel movies compared to the fun and bright DCU.  Robert Downey Jr.'s Strange was praised and there were some fun cameos of heroes like Ant-Man and Hawkeye, but fans were already starting to bail.

By the time the Avengers movie was ready to come out, the project was starting to flounder.  Hulk and Hawkeye solo films were delayed, and even a critically acclaimed Black Widow movie (by Patty Jenkins) wasn't enough to get people excited.  Due to the film going overbudget and personal issues in Zach Snyder's life, Avengers was finished by Joss Whedon, hoping to bring some of the DC magic over to Marvel.  The film was a modest success but struggled to win over critics and audiences.  Tony and Steve work together to assemble the Avengers when Cull Obsidian attacks Earth on behalf of his leader Thanos.  Even though Captain America is a little more lighthearted and less cynical, the movie struggles to tell a cohesive story while also introducing Thor (and all of Asgard), Hawkeye, and Ant-Man to the team of Iron Man, Captain America, Hulk, and Black Widow.

Not everyone hated the vision, though.  Snyder had legions of fans who loved the darker, more realistic and science-based superhero universe.  These were more realistic people who lived in the real world with street-level powers that weren't obscene and godlike like DC.  These fans were eager to see Snyder's vision come to light with seeds planted for more Captain Hydra, Tony's demon in a bottle, a greater role for Thor's brother Loki, and even a battle with Thanos himself.

It wouldn't be until years later when Zach Snyder's Avengers was released on streaming platforms.  It expands on the Whedon version with much more time spent in Asgard (including additional scenes with Loki), a backstory with Thanos featuring Captain Marvel and the Nova Core, and a premonition from Dr Strange that Steve will kill Tony.  It was a bit of a cultural phenomenon, especially with Snyder fanatics, but it wasn't enough to warrant any more Snyder material for Marvel.

Marvel is currently looking to reboot their universe, with James Gunn in the lead.  Snyder has moved on to start his own franchise, a mature and new spin on orcs, dwarves, and elves: The Halfling.

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(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Cannon essentially killed the documents case (or at least put it in a coma).  It was incredibly genius for Trump to install such a friendly and loyal judge in this district, and I wish the Democrats had been a bit more aware and tried to stop her appointment.  I know they wouldn't have had the votes along party lines, but by all accounts, they simply ignored her during hearings.  That was obviously a mistake - Cannon is incapable of ruling fairly, and I assume a number of other judges would've already brought this case to trial.

Just have to hope that the DC trial can start.  The good news is that Florida can't block that anymore.  So if the Supreme Court doesn't mess up the immunity ruling, DC should have an open schedule.

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(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Yeah I don't really know what to make of the polls.  I listen to a lot of the 538 politics podcast.  They obviously depend on the polls for their accuracy, but they acknowledge that something about Trump makes the polls less accurate.  In elections where Trump isn't on the ballot, the polls have been really accurate and reliable.  When he's on the ballot, something is awry.

In both 2016 and 2020, the polls underestimated Trump.  The only real theories I saw were the ideas that:

- Trump voters were undersampled.  In 2016 this could've been the result of shifting demographics.  Since people that traditionally voted Democrat were voting Republican and vice versa, maybe their sampling techniques underrepresented Trump voters.

- "Shy Trump voters" - people that were always going to vote for Trump but were unwilling, due to the social pressures to not admit you're going to vote for Trump.

So if the polls underestimated Trump in 2016 and 2020, why would they suddenly be overestimating him?  Could really be the same reasons, just in reverse.

- Pollsters oversampling from Trump voters.  Maybe in an attempt to fix the sampling problems they had in the past, they overcompensated and started oversampling Trump voters. 

- "Shy Biden voters" - maybe people see polls that say Biden is unpopular or his approval rating being in the 30s and think "I can't admit that I like Biden."  I guess it's possible.  I think there's a difference in stigma in admitting you like Trump vs admitting you like Biden.  I guess there's also the idea that a lot of 2020 Biden voters are saying they won't vote for him or will even vote for Trump, but they could all come back by November. 

But when you look at actual results in these primaries, it's hard to see bad news for Biden.  Huge percentages of Republicans are voting for people other than Trump.  Even people voting after Nikki Haley dropped out.  Even in closed primaries where you have to be a Republican to vote?

Are these eventual Trump voters that are casting some kind of protest vote?  Maybe?  But if so...why?  What do they hope Trump will do?  People protest voted Biden in Michigan in hopes that he'd change his stance on Palestine.  I don't know what protest votes against Trump would even hope to accomplish.

Or are these Biden voters who are voting against Trump to make him look bad?  Either, in open primaries, Democrats actually crossing party lines or, in closed primaries, voting for the Trump alternative?  That seems to be what Trump wants people to think.  But if that's not the answer and these are eventual voters for RFK, Biden, or another alternative (empty top of the ballot), I don't know how Trump has the votes to win.  Especially if Biden can win back some of the 2020 voters he lost.

The trends have been good for Biden in the last couple of months (although that trend is reversing a bit recently).  But I'm not comfortable simply thinking that the polls are wrong.  I would like the polls to be underestimating Biden *and* for Biden to be winning polls.

478

(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

pilight wrote:

This court has no respect for precedent.

Well that's what's so silly about some of the stuff you heard from them.  Talking about how this is a decision for the ages and all that.

No.

It's the decision for now.  The conservatives have the majority now, but Alito is 74 and Thomas is 75.  Neither will be around forever, and actuarily speaking, will be the next to go.  If a Democratic president replaces both of them, it's back to being a liberal majority.  Roberts is 69.  They act like they're doing historical business, but all of it could be unwritten in a decade or two.  This is a group of people who think they're more important than they are, and I assume the next liberal court (whenever that is) will spend a lot of their time undoing what they did.

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(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

Well, one thing I go back to is that most of the conservative majority in SCOTUS is fairly reasonable and has sided with reason most of the time.  Alito seems like an absolute right-wing nutjob, and Thomas is completely compromised when it comes to Trump.  But Kavanaugh has ended up being somewhat moderate, and I think Barrett hasn't been the complete nightmare she appeared to be. 

I think sometimes there's this thought that SCOTUS is full of Trump sycophants, and there's two reasons not to think that.  One, I think Roberts (despite everything) is trying to make the court not completely insane.  If Thomas or Alito was the chief justice, I think this gets so much worse.  Second, there's not really a quid pro quo here.  There's no real reason or incentive for them to be loyal to Trump - unlike people in Congress, there's not anything Trump can give them that they don't already have. 

(Note - I'm not saying SCOTUS hasn't been horrible.  Obviously, they've made some world-changing decisions for the worse.  I'm just saying a) they could be worse and b) the two oldest justices are also the two worst judges.  If Biden wins, there's not a zero chance that this flips back to 5-4 liberals in the next four years).

It's probably best long term for SCOTUS to clarify this as much as possible considering the idea that the next Trump could be much better at crime than Trump is.  But...man, I wish they'd carve out this DC case and let it move forward and let the documents case determine the high-level questions since I assume Cannon will never let that case be a thing anyway.  SCOTUS will never delay this case more than she will.

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(3,553 replies, posted in Sliders Bboard)

A few years ago, I was pretty active on Twitter and followed election coverage pretty closely.  I even waded into waters where I tried to calmly convince MAGA of the error of their ways.  Eventually, I didn't like the person I was.  I was doom-scrolling through twitter all the time, and I was feeling myself growing more and more annoyed.

So I quit.  I was doing it because I was bored, and there are a billion apps that I could use to stop myself from being bored.

About a year ago, I got curious about some things and waded back into those waters.  I had deleted the app but I could still access the website through Safari on my phone.  There were a couple of people I liked to follow for news on the Trump indictments or whatever and that was that.  Eventually, Elon closed that loophole and made you register to access the website.  So I was closed off.  Then, more recently, I decided I was curious enough and I created a second account (I didn't remember the login and thought this was more reasonable) and accessed the website (again, not downloading the app) to get my news.  I went from checking it only in the evenings to checking it all the time.  And, again, I could feel my blood pressure going up every time I visited.

The Trump immunity Supreme Court was the last straw.  I was upset all day.  So I decided to quit again.  I logged out of my dummy account and deleted all my shortcuts.  I haven't been back since.

Me doomscrolling through twitter isn't going to stop Trump from getting elected or make him go to jail, and at least now, I'm not forcing myself to constantly think about it.  The unfortunate thing for everyone else is that now I'll be much less informed.  The fortunate thing for me is that I'll be much happier.