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Yeah, I just like Landis and wanted to support his movie.  He had this ramble the other day about Nightwing that I really liked.  Not so much about the rambling itself but just the happiness in his face as he talks about it.  He LOVES this stuff.  LOVES story.  LOVES these characters.  They're real to him, and he's fascinated.  Something about that is really cool in a childlike innocence way.

(Also I love Nightwing.  In my opinion, he's the only comic book character who's ever been allowed to grow for some reason, and that's awesome to me).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBMGKc78qI

Well that's the other thing that might've hurt it.  The main character is a stoner, but it's not really the point of the movie.  It's more of a "this guy is a stoner who works at a convenience store - how can he be Jason Bourne" more than anything.  He's high a lot and talks about getting high when he's trying to understand what's going on, but the movie moves beyond it at some point.  It isn't played for laughs like in Harold and Kumar, and after the movie gets going, you see that it's more medication than anything else.

Because I'm the same way.  I don't do drugs and don't really think they're all that funny.

And I guess that's an issue with marketing it - the stoner aspect is there, but it's not the whole story.

So I saw American Ultra today.  Max Landis wrote it (and as I've said before, I'm a fan of his).  It was a fun movie - characters seemed real and 3-dimensional, there was action and heart, and it was just a fun ride.  Had the feel of another Eisenberg movie - Zombieland - and I think it *should* have that same level of success.  But it hasn't - there were five people in the theater I saw it in (granted, it was 1pm on a Saturday).  Landis went on a rant saying that the movie was beat by a few movies, all of which were sequels or remakes.  Claims that it's this kind of stuff that makes Hollywood pump out more unoriginal films.  Went on another rant the other day about the dangers of sites like Rotten Tomatoes.  American Ultra is currently at 47% there.

Anyone seen it?  If not, were you interested?  A lot of times, issues where good movies get bad results are due to marketing.  But I feel like the movie was marketed pretty well - I thought it would be a bit more druggie but it wasn't.  They're stoners but it's not necessarily their entire characters.  The whole cast is good and recognizable.

I thought it was well done, all around.  If it seems like your kind of thing, go support it.  I'm sure every dollar helps.

Well I can't imagine I can be any clearer that I have NO idea what makes a good FF movie

Well I don't read FF comics.  What aspects are non-negotiable when making a movie?  Does it have to be over-the-top goofy?  Do the Four have to be celebrities?  Does Reed have to be an inventor?  Does Doom have to be the center of all villainous plots?

I'd break the story down to it's basest elements and go from there.  I'm sure WB would love to fix Clark Kent's disguise, but it's iconic even if it's ridiculous.  If Superman wore a mask to protect the Clark Kent identity, then he wouldn't be Superman anymore.  So every iteration of Superman has to start with "Okay, Clark Kent wears glasses and that's his disguise.  We can't worry about that.  Now what?"

So ireactions - and I'm genuinely asking this question - is it possible to do a Fantastic Four movie in 2015 era times?  In your opinion, is the concept possible?  Because after reading more of this, I watched some youtube reviews - and everyone is talking about giving the rights back to Marvel.  And yeah - they've done a pretty good job with the Avengers - but it's not like they're infallible.  Iron Man 2, both Thor movies, Cap 1, Iron Man 3 - these aren't great movies.  I still haven't seen Ant-Man, and Avengers 2 was underwhelming.  We don't know what they're going to do with Spider-Man.

Can we trust that Marvel will do better than Fox?  Based on Ant-Man, we know that studio interference won't be any less.

The pieces were in place in 2005 and 2015 for a good Fantastic Four movie.  Is the source material too flawed to get it right?

Again, I haven't seen the movie.  But every review I've read has said the same thing - the origin isn't the problem.  I've seen nothing but praise for the first portion of the movie.  The part that fails, supposedly, is the superhero part. 

One thing that I've always had issue with is Doom.  I've heard he's supposedly the biggest bad of all the bads in the primary Marvel universe, but what are his powers?  What makes him so powerful?  How come I can't think of a single big-time Marvel event (granted, I don't know a ton) where he even participates?

I've seen the 2005 movie and the sequel and his powers are electricity?  Manipulation of some kind?  Being evil?  It's like he's a male Scarlet Witch - his powers are just whatever the plot demands.  And I've heard the same sort of power ambiguity exists in the new movie.

I think Fox's best bet is to absorb them into X-Men somehow.  Or, heck, do TF's idea and do a FF show instead of an X-Men show.  Or combine the two.

I don't know if the new version can meld with mutants or not.  If not, do FF science and send them to the Marvel universe.  Let them hang out with Channing Tatum's Gambit (who I assume will be the star of the X-Men franchise when Jackman retires).  Let them fight whatever new villain they decide to use going forward.  Team them up with minor mutants.  Put Johnny in a "main" X-Men movie.  But try and get some of the good-natured X-Men mojo associated with Fantastic Four.

That's what I'd do.  I definitely wouldn't reboot again.

I'm a big fan of Max - he actually wrote a feature-length script about the Spider-Man villain Shocker, which is online.  He also wrote an absurdly long script for a Mario Bros movie, and I loved his take on Death of Superman (available on youtube - separate from his re-enactment of Death of Superman, which is also on youtube).  He wrote a stand-alone Superman comic where he faces off against the Joker - and it's been recreated a couple times on youtube (once as a radio-type show with Max doing the voices himself), and he's going to do another Superman comic soon (featuring a retelling of the origin I believe).

He's said that his FF script would've been fun and goofy.  That Doom would've been a good guy (at least in the first one).  He seems conflicted on releasing more than just those pages because he knows Trank (and I assume Jordan) from working on Chronicle.  He's tried to use the publicity of his script to get people to actually go see the one in theatres.  I don't think he's commented on the film itself, mostly because he probably doesn't want to bag on it.

Oh well we can't agree there.  If you want to talk about making a movie to secure rights, I think ASM is up there with the Roger Corman Fantastic Four movie.  I think Andrew Garfield was a really good Spider-Man, but those movies were pretty much disastrous in my mind.  I think Marc Webb had good intentions, but it's the worst parts of the MCU and Raimi's trilogy come to life. 

You want to talk about universe-building hurting a franchise?  If you thought Captain America: The First Avenger and Iron Man 2 were bad?  At least people wanted to see an Avengers movie.  ASM2 is basically a prequel for a Sinister Six movie that no one asked for.  It suffered from the same over-saturation that killed Spider-Man 3.  It telegraphed Gwen's death way too much, but it wouldn't give anything else away because of future sequels. 

Not to mention the rampant insanity of completely redoing the origin story.  People give Tobey's Peter crap for "killing" Uncle Ben's killer, but Garfield's Peter doesn't even remember to catch him.  Not only is he not found in the first movie, but the second movie doesn't even acknowledge it.  Uncle Ben's killer gets away.  And the studio cut the movie so much that the other minor villain isn't even dealt with - another loose end. 

ASM and ASM were mildly enjoyable while I was watching them, but they were as forgettable as Thor's solo movies.  And that's saying something.

Do you think it was a mistake to keep Fantastic Four separate and not unite them with some mutants?  I thought that was interesting, since it might've been easier to link them to an already-popular series.

Yeah, I just think "team ups" are more organic than "no team ups".  The only way that I see other heroes staying out is if the stories are more intimate.  Marvel has done a pretty bad job of this because they feel the need to make every threat big (even if the villains are forgettable).

The Arrowverse has done an okay job of this.  Barry shows up when the threat is big enough (and vice versa), but there's an understanding that he'll let Oliver and Team Arrow work on their own when they need to.  That works fine on TV, where the conflict is relatively minimal.  In movies....it usually isn't.  There's usually no need for Superman's help for whatever Batman's facing, but if Doomsday shows up, it'd be all hands on deck.  If there's a Crisis on Infinite Earth, everyone heads there.  No matter what.

There was a really funny post on reddit regarding the Will Smith line "So that's it, huh?  We're just some kind of suicide squad" - the guy said Will Smith should do a cameo in every movie where he says the movie title out loud.  Some of the funnier ones:

"So that's it, huh?  The Force Awakens?"
"So that's it, huh?  We just go Back to the Future?"
"So that's it, huh?  It's just the Dawn of the Planet of the Apes?"
"So that's it, huh?  They just a bunch of Mean Girls?"
"So that's all we do, huh?  Just Eat, Pray, Love?"

and my personal favorite

"So that's it, huh?  Its some sort of Superman 4: The Quest for Peace?"

Well, the color palate is bad.  And I think putting Bruce *in* Metropolis during the attack is a little too on the nose.  And, as per usual, I think they're teasing us with a Batman/Superman confrontation that will be resolved before the 2nd act.  And there's just *WAY TOO MUCH* happening - I just don't see how this movie is either a) unacceptably long or b) edited to a level of near-nonsense.

But as far as getting Superman and Batman fighting each other on the big screen, I'm freakin' satisfied.  The movie might suck, but we'll always have this trailer.

I think it has to.  The footage where Affleck is staring at something in the trailer is probably Metropolis footage and not him staring at the cowl.

Apparently Affleck is writing and directing the Batman solo film.  He's better at either of those things than acting so that's good news.

Okay this might be a terrible idea, but I wanted to throw it out there.

I was thinking about BvS and old Batman vs. young Superman.  And I sorta get it.  I like the idea of a young, impuslive Bruce Wayne thinking he's indestructible and rushing to Metropolis to save the day.  But I think it's sorta implausible for that to be Bruce's inspiration.  So he just throws on a bat costume and goes in?  Nah...it goes against Batman's mythology.  So they'd have to use an established Batman who's already doing it for his own reasons.  But which Batman makes more sense to go?  A young Batman with a couple victories under his belt (think Dark Knight) or an older Batman who's been to war a couple hundred times and thinks he can handle anything?  I think the latter, actually.  And you get as close to Dark Knight Returns as we'll probably ever get live-action.

But what bothers me is this: what's best for BvS isn't necessarily what' best for the DCCU or Justice League.  So here's my idea.  It's probably a terrible idea, definitely not that original, and I haven't thought it through at all.

******
Batman vs. Superman : The SQ21 Edition

GOTHAM - Alfred watches footage of the Battle of Metropolis.  Buildings are falling.  People are dying.  He looks over to the clock that leads to the Batcave.  It's just closed.  Alfred tenuously to the cave and sees (from behind) Bruce putting on the cowl.  "You can't do this.  You can't win.  He's too powerful" Alfred says.  Bruce (still from behind) pauses.  It's clear that he doesn't want to but he has to.  Quick cut to the Batmobile rushing off - still no clear image of the Batman himself.

Months later.  There hasn't been a clear sighting of Superman since the big battle.  The city is coming together, and people are being rescued by what people have to assume is Superman.  Public opinion seems to be turning around on Superman, who seems to be the force of good everyone wants him to be.  But two radical camps are forming - one that worships him as a savior and one that wants him taken down (funded by Lex).  Batman watches on from the Batmobile - still can't see who he is.

Until something happens - cliche plane crash or construction incident where Superman has to stick around long enough to be seen by the public.  He decides to stand and talk to the crowd for a second when an object flies at his head.  Superman easily catches it.  A Batrang.  "We need to talk" with a time and date carved into it.

Superman arrives.  Batman is already there.  And it's finally revealed to be Batfleck.  He's old.  He's a veteran.  He's cautious but confident -he's beaten strong people before.  He's beaten superhumans before.  And he has this super-powerful suit.  Batman talks about danger and power and making sure Clark is who he says he is.  They fight.  It's a draw.

Plot plot plot plot plot.  Lex fights Superman in a suit similar to Bruce's.  Clark confronts Bruce.  They fight and Clark rips off the helmet in the fight.  It's not a similar suit - it's the same suit.  Bruce says he stole it and painted it black.  Added bat ears.  It's Lex's "old suit" - Batfleck is from the future.  Says he came back to set things right.  That he came running to Metropolis when he was younger and fought Clark.  But that young Bruce was too impulsive and Clark was too strong - he broke Bruce's back.  Then things went to Hell.  Unchecked, Clark took drastic measures and ran the world with an iron fist.  And heroes were afraid to step up.  And when "he" finally showed up, the planet wasn't ready.  Bruce used futuretech to heal his back and come back to set things right.  Young Batman is knocked out somewhere.

Old Bruce and Clark team up to fight Lex - Bruce teaches Clark some stuff.  Blah blah blah.  Bruce sacrifices himself to save Clark from Doomsday or Lex or something.  Dies.

Clark goes and finds young Bruce.  They meet.  Clark hands him a message from Bruce to Bruce.  Old Bruce has made a recording for Young Bruce telling him how to be the hero Clark needs him to be.  That troubles are coming, and they need to work together to win.  That he can trust Clark.  Only together can they take down the darkness that is coming.  And there's a few names.  Barry.  Diana.  Hal.  J'onn.  Bruce goes off to find them.

It's basically Star Trek with Bruce instead of Spock.  But they get their cake and get to eat it too - you get a young Batman alongside a young Superman, but you get your DKR stuff.

Info and I live in the same city.  There's a chance I've met him before.  I guess there's a chance we're even friends outside of the board and don't know it

Well, I think blockbusters tend to forget that the entire world changed so much after a couple thousand people died in one event on 9/11.  Whether you're talking about devastation in movies like GI Joe, Transformers, Avengers, or Man of Steel, you're talking about events that would make 9/11 look miniscule. 

And all the scenes after Zod dies are creepily serene.  Yes, the military is keeping tabs on Superman, but there's no real fear or worry in the general's voice.  More curiosity than anything, and there's no indication that Clark was just involved in an incident that all-but destroyed the country's best city.

Then the Daily Planet scene.  The city shows no sign of any damage.  The newsroom is really quiet.  There's talk of going to a basketball game.  Does this scene take place decades later?  Because there's no way that the newsroom would be that quiet.  There's no way there'd be a basketball game.  I'm not even sure the newspaper would be able to hire someone new considering the financial implications of an American city being practically destroyed.

It's just.....so weird.

Well, only a couple things really bothered me:

- I didn't like that I looked up one day and everyone was an expert ninja.  I was waiting for a scene where criminals attacked Ray, Laurel, Thea, and Felicity, and Felicity ran out of the room (or hid under a table) since all of the heroes were missing....only to find that everyone she thought was like her was actually an expert fighter.  It wouldn't surprise me if Oliver trained Felicity during the S3/S4 break, and now she can handle members of the League of Assassins without any issue.  Thea's was explained a bit better since she had 3/4 months of nonstop training.  Laurel went to a boxing gym after work and then worked with Nyssa....after work.  I was waiting for an episode where Laurel got her ass kicked and was eased into the fold.  But she basically became a member of the team (moreso than Diggle) almost immediately with relatively minor growing pains.

- Oliver's death.  Was one of the coolest moments of midseason for any show.  Then.....he was just okay?  The stab wound and/or the fall off the cliff should've killed him.  I kept waiting for Lazarus to be mentioned, but it was just something superhuman.  Then when Lazarus was actually used, it was this big issue....and then Thea was just fine.  Made me wonder what the point of any of it was.

The League of Assassins storyline was weak.  Season 3 was a weak season as a whole.  I thought the Ray storyline was kind of dumb, the Oliver/Felicity stuff hurt both characters, I thought Laurel's story was rushed, and I thought Ra's wasn't as dangerous as he was meant to be.

But I think they sorta knew that with the series-finale-like ending.  Now they have no choice but to reboot.

The show got better for sure.

Informant, have you caught up?  I think it's time for you to talk about (spoiler) dying.

Yeah, I think that'd work too.  Maybe they have to go find everyone and then bring them back for one more adventure on the campus.  But I think the show displayed (correctly) that these guys need to grow and evolve beyond Greendale.  So we shouldn't engineer reasons for them to be back on campus full-time.  A return?  Cool.  Full-time?  No.

Although now I like the idea of a superstar cast as the study group that gets replaced.  Imagine some of the top young actors just unceremoniously getting removed in favor of our cast.  I think Harmon would love that.

Sounds like the chances are actually pretty high that we'll get the movie.

I'm just not sure if it'd work as a movie.  Even the 3-part paintball episode run together would only be a 66-70 minute movie (at most).  Even a 90-minute movie (which is pretty short these days, even for comedies) would be a 4 or 5 part episode.  Is that too much time?  Would it be enough Community-style comedy, or would it also have to have ridiculous action/romantic subplots just to fill time?

I think the cast would do it in a heartbeat, and I'm sure Harmon would love to capitalize on finishing the #sixseasonsandamovie joke against all odds.  But I'm just not sure it works outside of the idea itself.

I thought the finale was flippin' brilliant.

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I thought embracing the TV concept was really a great way to finish the series.  It allowed them to have some fun at their own expense, and I think it must've been a blast to write and then perform. 

I am really surprised that Troy didn't come back.  There's no way Donald Glover's schedule was *that* busy that he couldn't do a similar cameo to Shirley's, and I wonder if he was a little more disgruntled than the BTS stories implied.

But I thought it was perfect.  All of it.  Well done, Community.

Well I'm not judging.  It just seems like they're already doing a spin-off.  I honestly do equate it to Guardians of the Galaxy - it could be really fun but doesn't really belong in the universe.  And if it's just a cool one-off movie, that's fine. 

It's just a little odd as a decision.  They do a straight Superman movie with no ties to anything - no tease - just a couple easter eggs implying that a universe exists beyond what we're seeing (although, at the same time, I think Bruce Wayne would've found his way into the war room during the whole Zod incident but maybe that'll be explained).

So it's Superman!  And BATMAN!  And also Wonder Woman and Aquaman!  Dawn of Justice!

Then a bunch of obscure villains, an extended Batman cameo.  Maybe Lex.

AND THEN JUSTICE LEAGUE.