Gotham: Rise of the Villains (Spoilers) (Page 2 of 2)

Gotham is still impressing me. The show is a crazy blend of drama, action, comedy and comic book insanity. They've somehow managed to capture so many aspects of Gotham City from comic books, cartoons, movies, etc, and bring it all together in a way that feels perfect... While still creating it's own canon. They depict truly horrible violence, but in a way that makes me laugh, rather than barf. Similar to what Supernatural used to do each week, when they'd usually have some sort of bloody explosion.

If the show does get canceled soon, I hope that it is saved by either the CW, or the DC streaming service.

It is a challenge, because David Mazouz is only 17, so even if he started training heavily and bulking up, it could be hard for him to look Batman-ish right now. Unless they go with more of a Terry McGinnis look. He is really good in the role though, so I'd rather not see him replaced.

Buy yeah, the budget would be an issue.

Recasting Lethal Weapon would just be dumb. Fox should have edited the finale to end a few seconds earlier, and it would have been a solid finale.

I think the fuss with Camren's hair has been a little over blown. In the comics Selina has had short hair, so it isn't a deal killer. Barbara's hair has changed quite a bit. Ivy's face keeps changing! I don't think a haircut is a big deal.

The thing about Gotham is that it has a very specific end point, like Smallville, and once you get there, you can't unring that bell.

Talk has been that it was an either/or situation with Lethal Weapon and Gotham, and Lethal Weapon just got renewed:

http://deadline.com/2018/05/seann-willi … 202388143/

So likely the end of Gotham.  No official word yet.

Very cool!  The show's not perfect, but they seem to have a great vision.  I'm glad they're going to get the chance to see it through.

Yeah I'm not 100% how much more traction they could get on the show after this, and I'm glad they're wrapping things up instead of pushing the envelope any more.  They've already leveraged so much of Batman's Rogues' Gallery, and they've kept Bruce right at the cusp of going full Batman for so long that I don't think it could've survived at this pace for 7+ seasons.

Although I'll give them credit.  I've always said, since season one, that the show was going to have to get desperate and do a time jump where they could hire a sexy mid-20s guy to play Bruce.  They stuck with their guy, and it's worked out.

They did No Man's Land in a way that even Christopher Nolan wasn't able to.  It feels so comic booky, yet it still feels very grounded.  I still don't buy this version of Bruce as Batman because he's just not very big, but they've done a great job with just about everything else.

The only thing about this show that bothers me is Barbara....she's so irritating and over-acts in every scene (moreso than everyone else).  I think her type of character fits, but the actress bothers me.  Her "no boys allowed" storyline might be fun, though.

So Lethal Weapon was recast with Stiffler, and Gotham WILL return!

http://tvline.com/2018/06/04/gotham-fin … bicondova/

Might be a 10 episode season.  Which is fine with me....since this should, essentially, just be the finale.

Ehhh, that sucks, only 10.

Gotham is the most fun show on television.  Period.  I watch a lot of shows while I do something else, but Gotham has my eyes glued most of the time.

And while I still do not buy David Mazouz as a future Batman (I think he's just too small, frame-wise), I think he does about as well as you can.  I think he has the personality down, and I think he has very Batman-like eyes.  I think, like with the rest of the show, I just need to accept that this version of Batman is going to be 5'8, and it'll work like the rest of the show.

Because, obviously, this version of Batman will be very different.  Gordon will know that Bruce is Batman, maybe from the very beginning.  Selina will know.  There's a decent chance most of the GCPD will know.  I think some of the villains will know.  And, yet, it really won't matter.  Instead of the billionaire playboy cover, I think Bruce will be a recluse (like he was in the Dark Knight Rises).  And, honestly, I think this version of Alfred will be in the field with him...if only for a few years.  Maybe even as the first Robin?

I hope the show doesn't try too hard to pivot the show to match the comics.  Because what they've created is its own thing.  And it's great.

I don't know why FOX scheduled Gotham the way they did.  It should've just been the 12 episodes in a row.  But it was finally back last night, and the finale is next week.

I'm not going to lie - I think the Gotham finale might be what I'm looking forward to the most this spring.  Maybe more than the Game of Thrones finale.  With the flashforward finale and the track record of the writers, it might be the most fun episode of TV we see all year.

Oh gosh....

I wouldn't even know where to begin.  First of all because I don't think I've seen a whole episode of Smallville since the finale aired.  And secondly because it's like comparing apples and the concept of dark matter.  That's not a commentary on anything but the fact that Gotham is the most unique show on television as far as I'm concerned.

Gotham takes itself both 100% seriously and 100% unseriously.  It's both a gritty, realistic street-level cop procedural, and a show where a boy and a crazy woman can stab an immortal being with a magic knife and make him turn to dust.  It's about the life of a cop trying to save a city from real-life corruption, and a show where there's a mad scientist who is regularly turning human beings into monsters.

The best way I can describe it is that they took unused scripts for Batman: the Animated Series and threw them in a blender with Law and Order: Gotham, and then they took the Batman parts and divided them between Gordon and a Bruce Wayne that 1) was de-aged and 2) didn't remember he was Batman.

The show is either the most perfect 5-season run since Supernatural, or it's a show that stumbled into being absolutely insane by pure happenstance.  The show is either written by the most devoted comic book fans on TV, or it's actually written by the criminally insane.  Neither would surprise me.

Even when you look at modern superhero shows, it doesn't have anything to compare to.  I guess I'd say it's like Arrow....except if Arrow both took itself as seriously as Netflix's Daredevil and existed in the bright colorful world of Legends of Tomorrow.  And instead of focusing on a superhero, it was about Captain Singh.  That's Gotham.

My memory of this is a struggle, but I don't remember a single scene set in Wayne Manor that isn't in that same room.  I think sometimes they'd film in the other direction so *everything* wouldn't be in front of the fireplace, but that might've been their best shot at that.  I also remember a Court of Owls boardroom (?) set and a Cobblepot mansion, and they might've just redressed the Wayne set.

I think the Ivy character is the most bizarre one of the series, and it had the oddest sense of course-correction when the rest of the show just went crazy in a more natural way.  I haven't read any behind the scenes things, but my guess is that someone on the show (or, more likely, someone at FOX) wanted a "sexy" character and that required Ivy to be aged up.  Maybe they didn't go far enough the first time and decided to course-correct?

The craziest thing is that I remember the pre-pilot advertising making a big deal about Ivy.  She's in the Pilot in a major capacity.  But for much of the first season, Ivy is nowhere to be seen.  Even when she's aged up, she's never a regular.  Even when they finally got a sexy, adult Ivy, they never really used her outside of an episode here or there.

Why they used the name Ivy?  My thought is that the plan was probably to do a slower burn with her character, and since they probably planned on multiple seasons before she actually turned into Poison Ivy, they wanted "non-comics" fans to know who she was going to become.  Everyone knows Bruce and Gordon.  Edward always told riddles at the beginning so it was obvious who he was.  Oswald is called Penguin from the beginning.  My guess is it was a shorthand since there wasn't much of a way to tell the audience who she'd be.

It was weird because she was the only one recast.  Every other character was played by the same actor.  The time-jump wasn't huge, and there's ways to make a 19-year-old actress look 24.  I thought the new actress was fine, but it was a bit silly to me to take away the role from Camren Bicondova.  Especially since she had gained quite the fanbase.

The way they used him was kinda bizarre too.  He's filmed mostly in shadow, and the only good look you get at him is sorta awkward CGI.  I thought there'd be more of him, but he's essentially used as a cameo. It was cool to see him in costume, but it's very Smallville in the way they finally use him.

I haven't considered it, really.  I thought Sean Pertwee was great as Alfred, and I think I'd watch a show where he was the lead.  Like with Krypton, I don't think watching a show about a superhero's father or grandfather to be all that interesting.  Building up to a few easter eggs doesn't really excite me.

If they did a Gotham spin-off with the Gotham actors (and bring back Camren Bicondova), I'd watch that for sure.

Probably.  I was thinking maybe I'd read Gotham comics, but I probably would've said the same thing about the Smallville season 11 comics and I didn't read those.  Are they available on TPB?

I don't think I remember a single mythology-legacy cameo.  I don't think they had a single "prominent" actor show up in any sort of cameo.  The show made its own legacy, which is something I respected about it.  It was balls-to-the-walls crazy most weeks, but it owned it.  I don't think it ever betrayed itself, even when it decided to fully embrace fully wacky concepts.  Despite struggling with ratings, it never went for stunt casting.  I respect that now that I think about it.

I talked about this a bit with Ivy.  I think they wanted someone to be a bit of a sexpot, and that's why they aged Ivy.  Both times they did it, they made little jokes about how Ivy was now older than Bruce and Selina.  Ivy relished going to nightclubs and being an adult, and she definitely starts to manipulate men with her sexuality almost immediately.

But I guess the "sexy" characters were also filled with Gordon's various love interests.  Barbara Keane and Dr. Lee Thompkins went through various "sexy" stages, and there were characters like Sofia Falcone that also filled that role. 

Catwoman had a thing with Bruce, and she'd occasionally hang out in Barbara's nightclub.  And as she got older, she'd wear sexier outfits and dresses to the various Gotham fancy parties.  But I feel like they generally let her be a kid and even an older teenager without exploiting her as a sex symbol of any kind.

I don't like that they kept teasing it.  If they were going to do it, they needed to do it.  They kept saying that he wasn't the Joker, but Jerome Valeska kept being more and more the Joker.  To be fair to them, it was his twin brother Jeremiah that ended up *actually* becoming the Joker.

I thought Cameron Monaghan was wonderful in the role, and I think he did the best he could.  I think my biggest issue was that I thought the Joker should've been off-limits.  I didn't want a teenage Joker fighting a teenage Batman.  I wanted Batman and Joker to rise from the insanity of Gotham...not be born at the same time as everything else.

There was actually a really great scene where Jerome Valeska died for the first time, and he'd done this big wild display on Gotham-wide television.  And when he died, they showed a variety of random Gothamites acting like Jerome.  And I think the idea was that Jerome had sewn a seed into the soul of Gotham that would eventually lead to the Joker.  That the Joker was out there somewhere and we'd never know where he was.  I thought that was a great idea, and it made the whole Jerome story (at that time) feel like a great idea.

But like Sylar before him, Jerome and then Jeremiah kept coming back.  They'd die and be resurrected.  Or die and it's a fake out.  I kinda got tired of that.

They embraced him in the finale, and I thought it was pretty good.

100%.  They did a bunch of Batman storylines  (the Court of Owls, No Man's Land, etc) and I think Bruce came in contact with just about every Batman villain that's ever been.  By season 3, it's essentially a Batman show without Batman.  By the end, it was a Batman show with Batman but he's just not in the suit.  By the finale, it was a Batman show with Batman in the suit but he's in the shadows.

I think the difference between Smallville and Gotham is that Gotham crammed Smallville's first 7 seasons into the first season and then played around with Smallville seasons 8-10 the rest of the series.  In other words, they realized they were a comic book show way earlier than Smallvilled did and fully embraced that for most of the run.

There were times when the show meandered, and I struggled at times with how fast or slow the show was moving.  But at the end of the day, Gotham was a lot of fun.  It was inconsistent, and I think I always wanted more from it than I was ever going to realistically get from a show with the budget it received....but I thought it was a fun little look into a world before Batman.