Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I fully admit that I have a bias against cops.  The way they are recruited and trained in most areas results in systemic abuse of power and inequality of protection.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Back to the original subject, Bernie Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton today

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

pilight wrote:

Back to the original subject, Bernie Sanders endorsed Hillary Clinton today

It was a ringing endorsement too.  "She is not Donald Trump" was the summary of the entire speech.  So if the Republicans were to pick any other human, I wonder if he'd retract it tongue

Outside of just being afraid of a Trump presidency, I don't really understand what Bernie gains here.  From what I've read, Clinton delegates shot down a ton of progressive items in the democratic platform.  They're miles away on tons of subjects that Bernie claims to be excited about.

Statistically speaking, Bernie Sanders should die sometime during Hillary's first term (average American lifespan is 78).  Statistics say this will be the last election of his life.  And to get such little done after such a long fight seems to indicate that Bernie is the weak politician that everyone thought he was the last 30 years.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Obama with an amazing speech at the political   I'm willing to vote to repeal the 22nd amendment if it means no Trump or Clinton.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

pilight wrote:

I fully admit that I have a bias against cops.  The way they are recruited and trained in most areas results in systemic abuse of power and inequality of protection.

I am all for having a healthy skepticism toward those in authority. We're supposed to be keeping the authorities in check.

But once you care more about being anti-cop than you do the facts or evidence, I don't see how you can claim to be any better than the people you're speaking against. A small percentage of cops are corrupt, just like a small percentage of black people are criminals. Judging the whole rather than the individuals is wrong in either case.

Not waiting for information before jumping to conclusions has gotten our whole country into this incredibly volatile situation.


Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I'm willing to vote to repeal the 22nd amendment if it means no Trump or Clinton.

Whoa now... let's not go crazy. President Trump might not be *that* bad. The last thing we need is another FDR situation.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well after I said that I looked into it.  I was thinking there'd be a popular change.org petition or something, and there wasn't.  Which surprised me.

What I did see was the idea of an emergency extension of the presidency for two years and have the election in 2018.  Which would mean Hillary and Trump would be eligible to "re-take" their positions, but they'd have to win a primary again.  Basically saying "do-over" on the whole process and starting it back over.  I'd certainly be okay with that, assuming that we'd spend the next year feverishly looking for anyone to replace the two of them.

But, again, I'd be okay with a third term for Obama.  I don't love him as a president, but we know what we're going to get with him.  And by the time the next election happens, Trump and Hillary would both be Bernie's age, and I'd hope both parties could find someone less toxic.

I don't know.  I watched all the speeches today.  Bush was great and Obama was great.  Both very presidential.  And just the idea of either Hillary or Trump giving a speech like that would come off as very self-serving.  I think both of them are very narcissistic - to the point where I honestly wouldn't be able to buy that they care about any of the victims.  I think Hillary is sad that two black voters were killed, Trump is sad he lost 5 white voters, and I think both candidates are going to just use what happened in Dallas for their own agendas.

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Yeah, we have very different views of Obama. We do know what we'd be getting, and that is as bad or worse than what the others would give us. We aren't even keeping our heads above water here. Terrorist attacks keep happening. Our own citizens are on the brink of declaring war on each other. The medical system is a disaster. The Constitution might as well cease to exist. In my mind Hillary and Trump are horrible ideas precisely because they might be just like Obama. He is a truly, truly horrible President. Like... "Jimmy Carter and FDR's love child" bad. So bad that I think I'd actually prefer Drunk Uncle Biden to take over.

But I guess we're all entitled to our opinions. smile

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Boy, these past 20+ posts are a really electrifying discussion about the U.S. presidential election! smile

Earth Prime | The Definitive Source for Sliders™

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Obama has been pretty bad, mostly because he was underqualified for the job in the first place.  That's part of what makes Trump so scary.  He's even less qualified than Obama.

The only good thing to say about Obama is that he's a step up over his predecessor, which is like bragging about having a faster Yugo than your neighbor.

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Obama was a brand, not a real candidate when he ran. It was all about pretty pictures and catchy slogans, and he really had no idea what he was doing... and he still doesn't. Ever since he was a kid, he's just been a follower of activists. Some pretty extreme.

My biggest worry about Trump is that he is balls-out crazy. I think he's qualified in terms of knowing how to get things done. I'm just very skeptical that what he wants to get done will benefit the rest of us in any way. His whole history is about lying, cheating and manipulating to get whatever will benefit him. I don't believe that he has much concern for the little people.

As for Bush... there are a lot of things that I didn't like and some things that I did. I would disagree that he was worse than Obama, but it probably isn't worth debating right now.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Again, no happy with Obama.  But the future is so scary with either Hillary or Trump.  The problem is that they're both Nixon, and we haven't had a president as narcissistic and power-hungry since then.  And as we saw with Nixon, I think both of these people would be willing to do anything (punch their mother, murder someone one live television, etc) to get to be president.  I'm already on record as saying that I don't believe either would make it through a whole term because they're both so stupid and/or corrupt.

I think Obama generally wants what's best for the country.  He's made a lot of mistakes (yes, due to being underqualified) but I don't see him as downright-evil as I see these guys.

The one positive I can say about Hillary in my own soul-searching over this mess is that she's done a ton of horrible things to get to this point, and maybe it's all to get to be the first woman president.  And maybe once she has that power, she can go back to being a respectable human being.

But I wouldn't bet on it.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Are we talking about the same Obama? Barack, right? smile

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Hahaha.  I just can't put him on the same level as Hillary and Trump.  The good news for you is that he ain't coming back, and he does seem to be in fully lame duck mode.  And if he truly thinks that Hillary is the most qualified ever, then he's clearly not as smart as I want to give him credit for.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

In all seriousness, if neither Trump nor Clinton work for you as candidates, why not send a message and vote third party? Gary Johnson is polling double digits as a Libertarian - it's not outside the realm of possibility if people would stop voting to keep people out instead of voting people in.

Earth Prime | The Definitive Source for Sliders™

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I will be voting third party.  Still trying to figure out which one.

So a poll came out that had Trump winning or tied in all three big battleground states (Pennsylvania, Florida, Ohio).  If he wins those three states, it's going to be very hard for Hillary to win.  In fact, if you take the Obama/Romney map and just flip those three states, Trump wins 273-265.

Leads me to my question.  If Hillary loses, what happens to the Democratic party?  Besides the rift created by the Bernie Sanders crowd, there'd be tons of mistakes made along the way.  A really weak field (orchestrated by Hillary) and then losing to a crazy unpopular Republican with almost no support from the Republican establishment.  We know the Republican party is going to go through tons of changes after all this, but wouldn't this be a giant disaster?  With Hillary's money, her support from a president with high approval ratings, and her support from her party, wouldn't a loss be devastating?

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The GOP released the list of convention speakers.  Notable absences include Mike Pence and Sarah Palin.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Everyone is reporting that Pence is the guy.  So that'd explain why he's not on the list.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Everyone is reporting that Pence is the guy.  So that'd explain why he's not on the list.

Apparently not everyone on the list will actually be speaking.  Tim Tebow announced that he would not be and did not know how he got on the list.  I guess that's the kind of attention to detail we can expect from a Trump presidency.

As for Pence, that should be the final nail in the coffin of the idea that Trump is anything other than a GOP establishment shill.  Nobody is more Republican insider than Pence.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

pilight wrote:

Apparently not everyone on the list will actually be speaking.  Tim Tebow announced that he would not be and did not know how he got on the list.  I guess that's the kind of attention to detail we can expect from a Trump presidency.

It makes his campaign look so stupid.  And this isn't the first time he's announced that someone would speak and they said "wait, no I'm not."  I understand when he shoots from the cuff and just randomly says stuff because he's an idiot, but his staff should be *that much more careful* because of it.  And yet they seem to be the same level of people.

"Hey Tim's publicist!  We want him to speak on the final night of our convention."
"I mean, maybe.  I'd have to speak with him abo-"
"Great!  I'll release it officially!"
"Wait, bu"
* dial tone *

As for Pence, that should be the final nail in the coffin of the idea that Trump is anything other than a GOP establishment shill.  Nobody is more Republican insider than Pence.

I don't disagree at all, but that's not super fair.  Just because VP candidates are supposed to fill in gaps that the presidential candidate can't fill.  So, ideally, Trump's VP is supposed to convince Republicans/independents who don't like him that they should vote for him anyway.  So Hillary's VP should be a progressive.  It doesn't mean that Hillary is progressive, but it's to throw a bone to people that are *supposed* to vote for her but don't like her as a candidate alone.

So Trump gets an establishment VP and the establishment is supposed to vote for him.  Whether or not Trump is establishment (I agree with you, for the record).  People are led to believe that the VP will influence the President when IMO it's basically a vestigial position anyway.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, Trump's campaign continues to crap all over itself as Melania Trump straight stole a portion of her speech from Michelle Obama's speech.  At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, but it's just another stupid thing that the Trump campaign let happen.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I've heard about this, but haven't had time to see what it is all about. This better be good. If I put the effort in and people show me a clip show of her saying "the", I'm going to be upset.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

All the people who voted for Joe Biden need to shut the hell up about how bad plagiarism is.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I agree with that!

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well I thought the Trump people's explanation was weak.  There were whole sections that were word for word.  My issue has more to do with the people ripping Melania herself.  I would say there is virtually zero chance she had anything to do with the speech, and I would say there is a zero percent chance that she would've realized that it was plagiarized.  That was stupid.

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Informant - I have a question for you.  I know you're a conservative/Republican who doesn't support Trump.  If a politician you like were to support/endorse Trump, would that change your opinion of that politician?  Would it make you less likely to vote for them?

The reason I'm asking is that I'm confused on the Republicans who are going out of their way to not support Trump.  They must think that it would hurt them politically, but I don't see how that'd be the case.  Especially when I assume any politician would write it off by simply saying "he was running against Hillary Clinton" even if Trump loses in a landslide.

Along those same lines, if the story about Kasich being offered the VP job (including control over domestic *and* foreign policy), I have no idea why he'd turn that down.  He'd basically be president, and there's a real chance he'd officially be president before 2020.  And even if he wasn't, I could see it being the first time (as far as I know) that a sitting vice president challenged a sitting president in a primary.  And he might win, especially if he looked more presidential than Trump.

Just seems like a weird decision to both turn down that offer and not even show up to the convention.  Even Cruz, who Trump was much more vicious to, is showing up.  Kasich comes off looking really petty.

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I can see it being damaging. If someone has strong beliefs and would rather stand by those beliefs than go along to get along, they wouldn't suddenly start cheering for a guy that they don't like and don't believe in. I'm curious to see how enthusiastic Cruz is about Trump at this point.

I have certainly pinched my nose and supported candidates that I didn't love because they were the lesser of two evils, so I think it makes sense sometimes. But Trump is a lot harder to support. I can certainly understand people needing to give it more thought. At this point, I don't know what my plan is for November.

I also don't understand how anyone at all can support Hillary, given her history and that of her husband. They're the inspiration for characters in House of Cards, for crying out loud.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

I also don't understand how anyone at all can support Hillary, given her history and that of her husband. They're the inspiration for characters in House of Cards, for crying out loud.

I've seen people post on social media about how scary Frank Underwood is and then publicly support Hillary.  I almost put my palm through my face each time.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I didn't watch (the convention is a crock) but I hear that Cruz didn't endorse Trump. After everything Trump did during the primary, I would probably have lost some respect for Cruz if he had. I mean, Trump accused Cruz's father of helping Oswald kill Kennedy. Cruz would have to be seriously whipped in order to endorse Trump.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah they're saying that Trump set him up.  Either Cruz would endorse him, or Trump would whip up support to boo him at the end of his speech.  I don't see it as a huge deal, although now Hillary is basically using his words to say vote for her.  If Cruz doesn't clarify that he *doesn't* mean "vote for Hillary" then he could be in bigger trouble.  Not voting for Trump is one thing.  Advocating voting for Hillary at the Republican National Convention is the type of thing that ends political careers.

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Seeing a lot of people getting mad at Trump for using fear to try and stir up people to vote for him.  I don't disagree, but it's usually said by Hillary supporters.  Isn't her entire campaign about the fear of a Donald Trump presidency?  Isn't she doing the same thing?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Fear should be a factor. We aren't voting for America's Next Top Model here, we are voting for someone who will undoubtedly be responsible for both saving and taking human lives. People make it sound as though it is reckless to suggest that a candidate could get us all killed, but that can happen too. People should have gone after Obama hard, for his soft stance on terrorism and his history with racial radicals. They didn't. Now we alternate between news headlines about terrorist attacks and headlines about racial attacks. People voted for a slogan and a funky poster and never considered the consequences of that vote. Our national debt thanks them for that, I'm sure.

People should look at voting for a president the same way they would look at handing a loaded gun to a random stranger on the street. Being cautious, nervous or even fearful isn't always a bad thing.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

People should look at voting for a president the same way they would look at handing a loaded gun to a random stranger on the street.

So people shouldn't vote?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, the weird thing about the hardcore anti-Trump people are the double-sidedness of it.  They criticize Trump for not being specific about anything (and they're right) and yet talk about a Trump presidency would be post-apocalyptic.  How can you be scared of something that you don't know about?

I think Trump would be a bad president, and I think Pence would be a bad vice president.  But I don't really know how Trump could be a post-apocalyptic president.  I don't know what, specifically, Trump could do to be the next Hitler or to end America.  I don't think the president has that much power, and I think he'd be even more hamstrung by a Republican establishment that doesn't love his policies.

He's not going to deport all Muslims or all Mexicans.  It won't happen.  He's not going to repeal gay marriage - that can't happen.  He's not going to drive away America's allies because our allies are smarter than that.  You don't quit being friends with your best friend because his/her annoying brother is in town for the weekend.  You get through the weekend and wait for things to be fine.

He'd be responsible for a Supreme Court judge, but unless the GOP gets enough Senators (questionable) then he's not going to get a crazy person confirmed.  He'll get someone who leans conservative, but I don't think that means we're going to turn into Nazi Germany. 

He'll probably try and build the wall, but that's either going to fizzle or take forever.   And, again, hardly makes us Nazi Germany.

He sucks.  He's not qualified.  He's probably racist and/or sexist.  But I really don't know the actual consequences of a Trump presidency.  I think the odds are *much* higher that he's impeached before he could ever turn into someone like Erdogan in Turkey.  I know that it's possible, but it's possible with anyone - including Hillary.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah, I am not exactly sure what Trump will do. He is a maniac who  changes directions on a whim, and he is used to having people hang on his every word and never question him. I don't think he can really be a servant of the people. I think he might do some good things, but they will probably be filtered through the lens of what will benefit him or his family's business.

He has proven that he doesn't handle people speaking against him. What happens when everyone is speaking against him and he doesn't like it? I think his scattered beliefs and tantrums are the concern here. His reaction to Cruz proves that.

With Hillary, the problem is that we know exactly what she is. I can't believe that the Democrats brought her back to this point.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I mean I get that he won't be a good president.  I'm certainly not going to vote for him.  I just don't know what he could really do that would be as bad as people are fearing.  I think he's a guy who's all talk and no action so I could see it just being four wasted years in terms of actually doing anything productive.  I'm not even sure if he'd repeal Obamacare, even if he wanted to.

My concerns with Hillary are more concrete because we know more about what she wants to do and what she has a history of doing.  There will be more regime changes in the Middle East.  More economic policies that benefit corporations over people.  And after another (apparent) terrorist attack in Germany, more really weak defense against ISIS.

When Trump doesn't spell out policy, I think it's because he honestly isn't planning to do much.  And I'd rather have a president that doesn't do much than one who is actively working in their own self-interests.

But, again, I'm not voting for either.  I'll let the rest of the country decide which of these is the lesser of two evils.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

He might repeal Obamacare to replace it with a universal health care system.  He has favored such a thing for a long time.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

It's possible.  But one of the criticisms of Trump is that he doesn't know what he's doing.  Even if he could repeal Obamacare (which, honestly, might not be the worst idea - I lost my health insurance in January and Obamacare wasn't a great option), I don't know if he'd put together anything to replace it.

It's hard to get things done as president.  Even if one party controls all three branches, the system is so clogged with bureaucracy that wholesale changes are difficult to make.  Compromises have to be made and everything gets watered down. 

The criticisms against Trump are that he's unqualified and doesn't know what he's doing (*agreed*) and that he's going to set up a Fourth Reich.  I don't see how these two gel together.  I don't have any faith that Trump can "make America great again" (or even what that means) but I also don't see him as a political mastermind.  I don't think he has the stomach or the will to do all the hard work that the President requires, and I think he'd delegate a lot of the hard stuff to lower people.  And unless Pence is a political mastermind / secret Nazi, I think we'll just have four years of nothing.  Which, honestly, is the best case scenario in my opinion.

That's why I fear a Trump presidency more than a Hillary presidency.  I fear both and I will not vote for either.  But until someone can tell me what I should actually be afraid of with Trump, that's just how I feel.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Obamacare is a disaster. As someone whose family has been dealing with a lot of doctors, hospitals, therapists since 2009, it is just a mess. A lot of medical professionals are finding other lines of work because of it. Companies that made specialized (expensive!) braces and worked with people to provide them for little to no money are now out of business.
And deciding to punish people who don't get coverage... the system is meant for people who couldn't afford healthcare, so now they actually fine people who can't afford healthcare. How does that logic make sense?

If Obama is capable of getting that monstrosity through, I pray that Trump is at least as capable of making it go away.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Tim Kaine is so much more likable (just as a person, not talking about policy) than Hillary.  It would've been great if the DNC had let guys like him run for president instead of just allowing nobodies like Bernie to run.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Worth noting: https://www.facebook.com/james.grissom/ … 1889333429

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

As opposed to the slate of nobodies and others screaming at the top of their lungs at the RNC, the DNC was full of some of the most powerful, intelligent, and attention-grabbing speeches ever.  Policy aside, the Obama's delivered really well done orations, with the President perhaps doing his best one yet.  Biden was also terrific.  Kaine was maybe the most awkward I've watched before, while the Clinton's were sort of ho-hum.  General Allen's was the craziest, giving an over the top Patton-esque pep talk. 

The most gawking speech was that of Khizr Khan, Gold Star parent, and Muslim immigrant of decades past.  I felt he obliterated Trump's brand of xenophobia and fear mongering in a way others could not.  Perhaps it was so unexpected, but it really went to the heart of Trump's brand, and backed up the message of the convention.  It's "Stronger Together" but moreover, Trump is an undisciplined, thin skinned, megalomaniac.  His ghost writer of Art of the Deal also appeared from obscurity to throw up the red flags.

Trump then predictably proceeded to try to bad mouth the Khan family in interviews, just as he did Judge Curiel, John McCain, and others.  Now the Khan's have been pure golden, and continue to battle with the buffoon on national media, while his own running mate, Paul Ryan, and Mitch McConnell run and hide.  This behavior is EXACTLY what has in my view disqualifies this candidate from the get-go.  Sure he's a missile to the political status quo, but the guidance system is blown to hell.  I mean, did he seriously mean it when he "hoped Russia would hack Hillary's email?" 

Look politics aside, the office of the President, at least to me, is still far too important, prestigious, and important (emphasis there) to hand it over to, as Art of the Deal's Tony Schwartz put it, a "psychopath."  I detest the manner in which the Clintons do business politically.  I'd much rather have seen Biden as the Dem, but it is what it is.  I can sleep at night with Hillary in charge, while Donald actually frightens me.  Simply because we cannot have the fucking President of the United States battling private citizens on national television.  I refuse to believe we're that low, that pathetic, that disgraceful, to have such a putrid individual represent the entire country.  It's embarrassing.  He cannot be rewarded for being a grade A asshole.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Okay, but the question I'm continually coming back to is.....what are you actually afraid of when it comes to Donald Trump?  Yeah, he's a loudmouth.  Yeah,  he's an idiot.  Yeah, he's an egomaniac.  But outside of being, as you said, embarrassed to have him hold the office, I don't know what people are actually *afraid* of.

Hillary made reference to the fact that Trump shouldn't be trusted with nuclear weapons, but that attack is both baseless and sorta crazy.  Yes, the president is the commander-in-chief and controls the military, but he doesn't have a button in the Oval Office that just nukes countries.  That process, like almost everything, comes with a system of checks and balances so that stuff like that can't happen.  If Trump got mad at, say, Guatemala for some bullshit reason and wanted to nuke them, he'd end up under arrest before he ever actually did any damage to anyone else.  So either Hillary doesn't know that (which shows incompetence) or she's using the same sort of baseless fear tactic that Trump is using (it's the latter).

He'd be a terrible, awful president.  I will not vote for him.  But when people say they're afraid of him, I'm not quite sure what to be afraid of.  He's not going to be able to deport all muslims or all Mexicans.  Even if he wanted to, he wouldn't be able to.  And the more I think about it, I don't think there's any chance in Hell he could even break ground on his Mexico wall in four years.  It took way longer than that to break ground on One World Trade Center, and that's something everyone in the country wanted to get done.  If elected, the wall would just be cancelled by whoever wins in 2020 with the only cost to the taxpayer being whatever committee was hired to find a contractor to build the damn thing.

The stuff to fear with Hillary is more tangible.  That she's been bought by the banks.  That she has a history of getting rid of leaders and leaving countries worse than they were before.  That she has a lady boner for Syria and wants to go in there.  That she wants to take in a *ton* of Syrian refugees when ISIS has already said they're planning on sneaking in terrorists through refugees.

She also has her ambiguous fears.  Is she going to flip-flop on stuff like TPP, breaking up the banks, gay marriage (stuff she's only recently started supporting)?  Do the Russians already have dirt on her that they can use against her via those deleted emails?  Are she and Obama unequipped to handle ISIS, seeing that it's grown out of control under their watch?  Is four more years of what we're getting actually the right path?

Trump sucks.  I get it.  But with him, the problems are nebulous.  And considering the fact that he's not talking policy, I have to assume he has no policy.  Yeah, he'd hire a conservative judge or two.  But I honestly think he'd just end up doing a lot of nothing, and if he tries to do something illegal/immoral, his lack of support among the Republican establishment makes it the most likely impeachment in the history of the country.

Hillary has so much power in the democratic party that she could be on trial for murder and she wouldn't get impeached. 

So until I get more concrete fears, I'm going to be more scared of her than him.  But, just to be clear, I'm not voting for either.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

For all of Trump's faults, how many people around him have actually ended up dead?  Meanwhile, Hillary has many dead bodies in her wake (the most well known probably being her attorney Vince Foster who committed suicide with a magic gun)

I don't think either would use a nuke, but I do believe one of them is a killer.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Trump being buddy-buddy with Putin suggests that the Russians would have even more free reign in the Middle East and worldwide than they do now.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah, I can see Russia being a problem in a Trump presidency, but I honestly can't tell you the best strategy for them.  If Putin wants to invade other countries, what's the proper reaction?  Isn't "World War 3" the only thing that comes out of that?  Whether Obama, Trump, Hillary, Biden, Pence, Kaine, Ted Cruz, whoever is president? 

I've seen the "buddy-buddy" argument, but what's the endgame for that in people's minds?  Is the US going to go to war with NATO because Russia invaded the Ukraine?  Just stay out of it completely?  Invade Ukraine ourselves to help them hold it?

I'm using a lot of hyperbole, but I'm honestly not sure exactly what a Putin-Trump friendship, if indeed they're friends, would even mean.  Is it better to deal with Putin passively (as people assume Trump would do) or meet him with force (as people assume Hillary would do).  Is that even a question we want to ask?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Trump has now frustrated his own campaign so badly, there are reports of them "mailing it in now."  RNC is currently gathering leaders to discuss Plan B should Trump have a tantrum at any moment and run away with his ball and quit.

Sorry, Hillary doesn't frighten me.  I'll sleep at night, same with Obama, and honestly the same with Bush.  The President makes very few ACTUAL direct decisions, but the one he or she will need to make are usually fairly crucial.  Trump has no clue about anything outside of his own world, which frankly isn't much more than concerns over himself, himself, and oh by the way, himself.  The #1 reason I oppose him is he'll likely appoint Chris Christie as his AG, and that piece of garbage is one of the most bullying, corrupt, power-hungry, back-stabbing turds this side of the 19th century. 

PS: the Clinton body count stuff is a joke.  I could make the same argument about the Bush's, how their family bankrolled fascists like Hitler prior to WWII, something they were TRIED for.  The coziness with the Bin Laden family, etc., etc.  Where does it get anyone?  I can tell you something that is fact.  Donald Trump's entire real estate empire was built in the 70's and 80's with STRONG Mafia ties.  He was the front man for casinos in Atlantic City he should never have been allowed to own, given his consigliere Roy Cohn was a mob-affliated NY lawyer and power broker.  Trump is dirty, perhaps dirtier than any major candidate before.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The Trump fortune was built by Fred Trump in the 1940's and 50's on FHA loan profiteering.  Donald had nothing to do with it.  He has maintained his inheritance, nothing more.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yes I know he inherited, but he HAS done extensive business since taking over in the early 70's.  Whether those maneuvers have been successful overall or not, that's another story.  His record in and around NYC is extremely controversial.  But yes, Daddy Fred was as crooked as Donald accuses Hillary of being. 

A new controversy involved Trump persistently asking an advisor why the United States "can't use it's nuclear weapons."  Again, how someone even has to ASK such a thing is a frightening thought.  I mean, has this guy (forget read) watched the History Channel???  Didn't he live through the Cuban Missile Crisis? 

http://www.esquire.com/news-politics/po … gn-mutiny/

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I mean I don't disparage anyone for fearing Trump.  He's unpredictable.  I just don't really fear him.  He's not going to nuke Europe or drop out of NATO or build a wall and a bunch of concentration camps.  He's a buffoon and he's not capable of any of the fascist stuff people think he'll do.  I think he's much more likely to either quit after he wins (because he doesn't want to do the job) or get kicked out of office than do anything nefarious.

Hillary will go to war with Syria.  She will bring in a ton of refugees.  And she's going to have way more leash to do stuff she'll want to do because she has control over every Democratic congressman. 

Just my thoughts.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

If Trump quits then his followers are back at square one, since he selected a long time GOP insider as a running mate.  The prospect of Pence becoming president is likely to drive voters towards Clinton, or at least away from Trump.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah but wouldn't that number be offset by #NeverTrump Republicans and #NeverHillaryorTrump Democrats?  Pence would bring in establishment Republicans who don't want Trump, and it'd give an option to #NeverHillary Democrats who were turned off by Trump.

I don't see Trump voters switching to Hillary because Pence is too establishment.  Hillary basically has the patent on establishment.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Anti-establishment voters won't switch to Clinton, but they might stay home or vote for a smaller party candidate.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah, I think if Trump were to drop out now, I think that'd only be good for the Republicans.  Hillary has set up her entire campaign to be anti-Trump, and she has a gigantic lead.  If she suddenly had to start talking policy instead of just fear-mongering about all the things Trump will do, I don't know if she could.

Some hardcore Trump people would stay home, but some would vote Pence because he was Trump's guy.  And, again, you'd get Republicans and Democrats who have someone "reasonable" to vote for against Hillary. 

I'm not saying he'd definitely beat her, but since most of Hillary's arguments are based on Trump, she'd have her work cut out for her to get back on message.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ … or-whites/

This is an interesting article about why people are voting Trump.

Hint: it isn't because they're all stupid and/or racist, despite what the media wants you to think.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/ … or-whites/

This is an interesting article about why people are voting Trump.

Hint: it isn't because they're all stupid and/or racist, despite what the media wants you to think.

thanks for posting this!

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, I think it's unfortunately that a group of people that have been historically forgotten by the US government is also getting painted with an unfair brush.  Are some poor whites also the same hardcore racists who are being loud and awful at Trump rallies?  Yes.  Absolutely.

But a lot of these people are proud people who work hard for their families.  And because there's a movement in the Democratic Party toward clean energy (which I agree with) and because the Republican Party tends to ignore poor people of any race, these people have no one speaking for them.  They've been living in their town for generations, and they've been doing one thing (digging coal, working in a factory, etc) for generations.  It's what they do.  Their way of living and their towns are dying, and no one has spoken for them.

Now Trump is speaking to them, and they're responding.  And either they don't know that Trump isn't really going to help them, or they know and don't care.  And I'm not sure which is more tragic.

But I'm glad someone is finally talking about this issue.  *Why* Trump has support is a much more important item than just getting mad that he has support.  If we don't address why he's popular then I don't think things will get better.  No matter how you define better.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Those low skill factory jobs aren't coming back because they don't exist anymore.  The US does 21% of the world's manufacturing, a number that hasn't moved since the 1960's.  It's less labor intensive than it was, and the labor it does use isn't the kind that those old factory workers do.  It's electronics and chemicals and other highly skilled manufacturing we do now, while most of the grunt work type jobs have been automated.

Hillary Clinton may have alienated some people when she talked about killing the coal industry, but the truth is it's pretty much dead already.  The Dow Jones coal index is down 93% since 2011 and has only one company listed that's not in bankruptcy (Consol).  In a few more years producing coal will be akin to making buggy whips or phonograph needles.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Okay, but where are the programs to help those people?  I don't have any love for the coal industry, but these are people who want to work.  Who are willing to do hard work.  They mine coal because that's all their family has done for years.  They aren't going to get a job as engineers.  They aren't going to work for Goldman Sachs. 

Hillary (allegedly) cares about poor Hispanics and poor blacks and poor Syrian refugees.  But she's basically ignoring poor whites.  She doesn't need them to win, but it'd be nice if she pretended like she cared about them.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Okay, but where are the programs to help those people?  I don't have any love for the coal industry, but these are people who want to work.  Who are willing to do hard work.  They mine coal because that's all their family has done for years.  They aren't going to get a job as engineers.  They aren't going to work for Goldman Sachs. 

Hillary (allegedly) cares about poor Hispanics and poor blacks and poor Syrian refugees.  But she's basically ignoring poor whites.  She doesn't need them to win, but it'd be nice if she pretended like she cared about them.

Please watch her answer today at the association of black and latino journalists event about why are people supporting trump even with his offensive remarks.  I think you will be pleasantly surprised and it relates very much to the recent discussion here.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I read them.  She's a good speaker, and she's trying to say the right thing.  Can we trust that she really has a plan?  I don't know.  But I do hope that she does because she's almost certainly going to be the next president, and these people deserve to be helped as much as anyone else in the country.  Or, at least, as much as she wants to help Syrian refugees.  These are hard-working Americans that want to work.  And both sides have really done a terrible job at doing anything to help entire towns that are dying off.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Hillary Clinton would sacrifice her own de grandchild if it would secure her win. Neither she nor her husband have ever cared about anyone but themselves, and neither one has any hint of a moral compass. We have decades of experience with these people and they've never shown a hint of sincerity or humanity. He fakes tears at funerals. She makes up 9/11 stories to gain sympathy.

There is nothing good or sincere about Hillary Clinton. She doesn't even seem to comprehend basic human emotion, and she couldn't care less about the little guy unless there's a camera around.

The problem is, Trump isn't much better. I think that looking for care from either of them will just result in falling for the con.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I don't know what can be done for the people who have lost low skill, decent paying factory jobs.  As a society, the answer is to invest more heavily in education so that the next generation can get the higher skill jobs that are out there.  For the people already 20 years into their careers it's a more difficult problem.  It's what economist Joseph Schumpeter called creative destruction.  In order to create new jobs, some of the old ones have to be eliminated.  That's good and necessary for the country as a whole, but some people wind up getting hurt by it.

Of course Schumpeter thought the cycle of creative destruction would eventually be the doom of capitalism.  He may be right, but that's a much longer term issue.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, I'm certainly not advocating continuing to use fossil fuels just for the sake of the miners.  But any level of investment would be better than the nothing that they're getting right now.

The problem is that the way to the presidency for Democrats is minorities and liberal affluent whites.  Poor whites aren't in the equation, and so they're getting ignored.  It's not just that Hillary lost them, but she hasn't even done much to court them back.  She doesn't care, or she knows making them any promises hurts her in other areas.

It's just odd that "stronger together" clearly doesn't mean everyone.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

My friends and I were talking the other day, and the election came up.  And we're all pretty much Trump haters, but a couple of them were Hillary supporters.  We all decided that both candidates are really unlikeable - certainly the two most unlikeable candidates that have run in our lifetimes.

And I came to a funny conclusion - neither of these candidates got to this point in their lives because they were likeable.  Trump is only here because he inherited money, which gave him wealth, which gave him notoriety. 

Hillary is only here because she married someone likeable.  She won the NY Senator job due to her husband's name, and she got to be Secretary of State because she lost an election to an unknown.

Most politicians have to be likeable on some level in order to succeed.  Neither of these candidates ever had to do that.  They married into or were born into their success.  Which is pretty crazy when you think about it.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Hillary is pretty bad, very fake, shallow, conniving, you name it.  I think she's harmed her candidacy by NOT acting like Trump.  To be honest, the email thing is a farce.  There's really not much there.  Government employees treat "classified" info like junk all the time.  She used private email, big deal, everybody does.  Like Powell, I wouldn't trust certain communications on government servers.  There's a natural CYA inclination there.  Bengazi is a non-story, sorry but it is.  A bad thing happened, we learned from it, and should have moved on years ago.  Much WORSE has happened and been ignored.  She should have stuck to her story, and when called out, just kept brushing it away like Trump.   That seems to work!

Now Mr. Trump.....

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/23/politics/ … index.html

And there we have it, Trump has basically adopted Obama's immigration stance.  Besides his hilarious rebuke of Free Trade, The Donald's main line of demarcation was immigration.  Nope.  Gone. 

http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/23/politics/ … index.html

In another hilarious Trump moment, his "medical letter" released last year is now getting further scrutiny.  Sounds like Donny himself put it out there as good PR, and slapped his doc's letterhead on there.  MD's have scrutinized it with quite a bit of shock as well as jest. 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/21/us/po … .html?_r=0

Of course my favorite Trump turn is the ouster of his campaign director Paul Mannafort, primarily for losing, but also for his nefarious ties to Ukrainian quasi-despot Viktor Yanukovych!  The media really hasn't covered this properly, although the NY Times spent 3 months investigating and began to do so.  As many have suspected or known, Trump's business is in debt, a lot of it.  Then again, he "loves debt" after all, and has made a career out of running it up, and running away when the bills come due.  More importantly, Trump owes a LOT of money to both China as well as Russia banks. 

Why?  Many companies do, but the main reason is that Mr. Trump's credit is PUTRID.  Has been for years, thanks again to skipping the check time after time.  He's been forced to go over seas to get loans to build his golf courses and buildings and such.  As a business man, that's fine.  As President?  That's plain scary.  Here's a man who owes money to China and Russia, the other 2 superpowers, and as Prez will have the ability to influence US monetary policy greatly in his favor!  This stands to save him potentially hundreds of millions of dollars, while doing the US economy much harm.  Sure, the Clintons are pay to play, we all know that, but what they've rung out of "donors" is chump change compared to what Trump is capable of.  For the first time, I can actually SEE a valid reason for Trump to WANT to be the President, and it's a bad one.

PS: Oh, there's also rumors he and (finally outed) dirtbag Roger Ailes win or lose, will start a new network that presumably would be even more nutty than Fox News!

It's bad, just all bad.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Trump has been talking about "touchback" amnesty for a long while.

From July of 2015

http://hotair.com/archives/2015/07/30/t … al-status/

Trump said Wednesday in an interview with CNN’s Dana Bash that as president he would deport all undocumented immigrants and then allow the “good ones” to reenter the country through an “expedited process” and live in the U.S. legally

From November 2015

http://time.com/4107636/transcript-read … milwaukee/

Going to have to go out and they will come back but they are going to have to go out and hopefully they get back

From April 2016

http://www.today.com/video/trump-on-tod … 0689347771

“we’re going to create a path” for undocumented residents of the country to come back to the country legally after being deported

The media has grossly distorted his position.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor wrote:

Hillary is pretty bad, very fake, shallow, conniving, you name it.

The problem is that we spent so much time focusing on Trump, someone who's not going to win, than about Hillary.  She's already backing off promises she made a couple months ago, hiring a transition chair that is pro-TPP and a fracking defender.  Usually candidates wait until they're in office to start breaking campaign promises, but this election was over long-enough-ago that she's already basically doing whatever she wants.

We'll be in Syria in her first 100 days.
Fracking will be expanded extensively around the world.
TPP is here to stay.
Any progressive idea that Hillary agreed to appease Bernie folks will be ignored or worked against.

And we're ignoring all of it because Donald Trump says stupid stuff.

Hashtag America.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

To be honest, the email thing is a farce.  There's really not much there.

I'm going to have to disagree there. This is a big deal. Not only did she put national security at risk, but she put the lives of people who were helping us fight terrorism at risk. And there is a very real, solid chance that people lost their lives because of her unsecured emails. That is not a farce. And when confronted about her emails, Hillary pretty much just shrugs and plays the "I'm an old person who doesn't know how a computer machine works" card.

What she has shown time and time again is that she is not only incapable of holding a leadership position, but that when lives are lost because of her incompetence, she doesn't even have enough humanity within her withered body to pretend to care.

The press downplayed the email scandal because they want Hillary to win. No other reason. Had this happened to anyone who wasn't within the media's protective bubble, they would have been crucified. I think it is a mistake to downplay the level of incompetence and general lack of caring shown by this brain damaged woman. She isn't merely a bad choice for President. She is a monster, just like her whore of a husband.


Apologies for the strong language. I think it's needed to fully convey my disgust when it comes to the Clintons.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

269 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2016-08-24 21:12:23)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

If Hillary were running against any politician, this email story would've been the end of her campaign.  Cruz, Rubio, Bush, Ryan....name the guy, they'd beat her.  But no one cares about the emails because she's running against someone who's universally seen as worse.

Trump is getting one percent of the African American vote.  This race should be mathematically impossible due to that fact alone.  But it isn't...because she's a really terrible candidate.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

There is a grave threat to "national" and personal security, and it's coming from Russian government backed hackers, and distributed by a sociopath nearly on the level of Trump, Julian Assange.  This maniac is going to publish whatever he gets, primarily from the Russians. 

Look Hilary and Bill's track record are well known, I want nothing to do with her, which is why I voted for B.O. in 2008.  I wanted Biden this time around, but his son died, and that was the end of any run for him.  I agree if she's up against most any Republican, she loses, with maybe the exception of Ben Carson. 

I don't agree about the press, they've covered the email stuff, but every time something damages her, Trump says something incredibly bombastic and takes over the news cycle once again.  I still stand by my opinion that Trump doesn't actually want to win.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

So the next president of the United States didn't know that (C) in emails stood for classified at the confidential level.

C is for cookie.  That's good enough for her.

We are electing someone with the brain of cookie monster.  Sigh.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

To be fair, Hillary obviously has some pretty serious neurological issues. So should she be blamed, or should we be blaming the people who got her to this point?

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, she said she was never trained on it.  But handling classified information is a decent part of the Secretary of State, right?  Wouldn't she ask questions?  What keeps coming back to me is that this wasn't a job she ever took seriously.  She didn't want to handle matters of state - she wanted the job to put on her presidential resume and nothing more.  It's why she accomplished practically nothing and even members of the State department can't name a single thing she accomplished that was noteworthy.  It was a paperboy job your kid gets so he can buy a bike and then quits as soon as it's bought.

I go back and forth with her in my mind as either a cunning, devious, power-hungry monster.  And then when I read the FBI report (and I read the whole thing), she just comes off as an idiot.  She just sorta floated around in the State department not really understanding what was happening and not really understanding what she was supposed to do.  I can see her setting up this private server to do all kind of backroom deals, and I can also see her spending all this money because someone tricked her into doing it.

It's mutually exclusive, I know.  And I struggle with which side she actually falls on.  Is she a liar or does she actually not know the answer to any of these questions?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I think it is a bit of both. We have video of her from years ago (2008?) saying that she has no interest in email after all of the investigations that she's been through. So she was thinking of ways of hiding her actions and emails, and I simply don't believe that she never understood what was confidential. How long has she been around politics? It doesn't take a genius.

But then, I also believe that she has a serious issue with her brain. I don't think that she is capable of being President... But that probably won't stop her from being elected. So, who will actually do the job?

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The BleachBit stuff in the FBI reports is the stuff I found the most damning because I'd only heard Republicans saying it before that.  I even searched on Snopes to verify if it was a real thing that happened.  But....yep, she paid a ton of money to permanently delete emails and had staffers smash her Blackberrys with a hammer.  That sounds like the work of a drug dealer flushing all his drugs down the toilet.

I still can't believe she's running against Donald Trump.  This should be the easiest election the Republicans ever had, and they've completely blown it.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I still can't believe she's running against Donald Trump.  This should be the easiest election the Republicans ever had, and they've completely blown it.

One of my conservative friends said he can't decide whether he's more pissed that the Democrats rigged their primaries or that the Republicans didn't.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

That's exactly right.  What's crazy is that the Republicans are already making moves to "rig" their next election, and the Democrats don't really have their next guy lined up.  The Democratic Party has spent the last 16 years trying to set up Hillary Clinton for a run that I'm guessing we'll have a wide-open field next time.  Bernie will probably be dead and Tim Kaine would be 66 this time around if Hillary wins two terms.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

If the Republicans had rigged the primary, we would probably have Jeb or Christie running. They would present issues of their own, which wouldn't make the election a sure bet for them. At least now, they will blame Trump and "extreme" conservatives for the loss, making the establishment look golden in their own eyes.

But the truth is that a lot of Democrats voted in Republican primaries, and a lot of them voted for Trump.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I think Jeb would beat her.  He's not great, but Hillary wouldn't have much to pin on him.  She's running a 100% negative campaign because there isn't much positive to say about her.  Christie would have a similar problem to Trump.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

That's exactly right.  What's crazy is that the Republicans are already making moves to "rig" their next election, and the Democrats don't really have their next guy lined up.  The Democratic Party has spent the last 16 years trying to set up Hillary Clinton for a run that I'm guessing we'll have a wide-open field next time.  Bernie will probably be dead and Tim Kaine would be 66 this time around if Hillary wins two terms.


Whoever wins will be a one term president.  The US has never had four consecutive two term presidents.  This is only the second time we've had three in a row.  The first was Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, and James Monroe in the Era of Good Feelings.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

The BleachBit stuff in the FBI reports is the stuff I found the most damning because I'd only heard Republicans saying it before that.  I even searched on Snopes to verify if it was a real thing that happened.  But....yep, she paid a ton of money to permanently delete emails and had staffers smash her Blackberrys with a hammer.  That sounds like the work of a drug dealer flushing all his drugs down the toilet.

Don't you destroy anything with a hard drive in it when you are done with it? Personally, I always use a drill first and then a hammer before I recycle it. And the only thing I am concerned about is getting my identity stolen...

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah but she claims the emails she was deleting were about yoga and weddings.  Regular deleting works pretty well for that stuff, right?

And the hammer just seems excessive.  Why not hydrochloric acid?  Or having Elon Musk shoot it into the sun? 

It just adds to the Hillary dichotomy.  She'll pay a ton of money to permanently delete emails about yoga, but she uses a $3 hammer to destroy a Blackberry with national security information on it.

283 (edited by Grizzlor 2016-09-08 23:37:45)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Again I work in the industry and we only "destroy" drives that have personal financials on them like credit card numbers.  Tech has changed though and we don't even keep the numbers anymore.  Hillary could have easily deleted 15,000 spam messages, but Trump claims these are valid. 

Anywho, Gary Johnson showed why it is that 3rd parties continue to fall flat on their face.  He had next to no knowledge or even opinion on the mess in Syria.  The reason is that his platform, like that of many 3rd parties, is seemingly zoomed in on specific issues, and blank on everything else.  Can't do that. 

Meanwhile Trump continues to praise Russian President Putin, an enemy of democracy in Russia and abroad, for how in control of his country he is.  Sorry Don, that's called a dictatorship.  You've got almost anything related to Clinton being hacked by Russian sources, and released on the web by Wikileaks.  Assange has made it clear he's vehemently anti-Clinton.  Again, you've got a candidate sees nothing wrong with the methods of the Kremlin, one who may well OWE millions of dollars to Russian banks.  Difficult to know, because he refuses to release his taxes.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor wrote:

Again I work in the industry and we only "destroy" drives that have personal financials on them like credit card numbers.  Tech has changed though and we don't even keep the numbers anymore.  Hillary could have easily deleted 15,000 spam messages, but Trump claims these are valid. 

Anywho, Gary Johnson showed why it is that 3rd parties continue to fall flat on their face.  He had next to no knowledge or even opinion on the mess in Syria.  The reason is that his platform, like that of many 3rd parties, is seemingly zoomed in on specific issues, and blank on everything else.  Can't do that. 

Meanwhile Trump continues to praise Russian President Putin, an enemy of democracy in Russia and abroad, for how in control of his country he is.  Sorry Don, that's called a dictatorship.  You've got almost anything related to Clinton being hacked by Russian sources, and released on the web by Wikileaks.  Assange has made it clear he's vehemently anti-Clinton.  Again, you've got a candidate sees nothing wrong with the methods of the Kremlin, one who may well OWE millions of dollars to Russian banks. Difficult to know, because he refuses to release his taxes.

Maybe he's hoping Putin makes those problems go away?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The Johnson stuff, to me, is irrelevant.  He's not a serious contender for the President, and as a 3rd party candidate, his only role in this election is to push his party's agenda.  And his party's agenda is mostly domestic.  So it honestly doesn't matter what his thoughts are on Syria because, in the long run, it doesn't matter.

As a former journalist, I was also a bit disturbed by the way that question was phrased.  “What would you do if you were elected about Aleppo?", to me, is a question designed specifically to get the response that Johnson gave.  Because the question had little to do with the city of Aleppo and more to do with the Syrian refugee issue as a whole.  It would be like asking "What are you going to do about Raqqa?" when you're actually asking what you would do about ISIS.

Regarding Putin, Trump is an idiot, but Putin isn't going away.  So what should be the US' policy on Russia?  If you go to Hillary's website, there's a ton of issues she talks about.  Nothing in there about Russia.  So while they're saying Trump would let Putin bully him, what's the alternative?  World War 3?  A second cold war?

There's thoughts that Putin in supporting Trump because he's worried about Hillary.  She's a known war hawk who's already responsible for the death of one of Putin's allies (Gaddafi), and who's openly wanted to get rid of another of one his allies (Assad).  And while "a bad person with bad friends is afraid of her!" sounds like a great reason to vote for Hillary, do we really want a scared Vladamir Putin?  Is that really in the best interests of anyone in the world?

Again, Trump is an idiot, but it's another instance where I'm not sure Hillary really looks much better.  It's just a terrible election with two terrible candidates.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

With Hillary's little health episode today, I learned that Democrats and Republicans in New York City feel weather differently (Republicans thought it was a lovely day and Democrats thought it was over 100 and super humid), and that a lot of Hillary supporters have fainted many times in their lives.  Republicans never faint and are bedridden whenever they have pneumonia.

1. I'm not a doctor and cannot tell via 20 seconds of videos whether Hillary has pneumonia, heat stroke, or Parkinson's.  I'm glad to know so many people on the Internet are.

2. Hillary isn't a hero for going to an event with pneumonia.  Yes, I saw this said many times.

3. Her health is absolutely relevant.  As is Trump's.  And Johnson's and Stein's and Kaine's and anyone else in this election.  Whether it affects voters is a completely different issue.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I think it is very relevant as well. I also think that the excuses are a joke. They say that this was diagnosed on Friday, yet it is something that we have been talking about for weeks. Her needing to be held up is nothing new.

If there is nothing wrong with her, they should stop lying about it and hiding whatever the truth is. Obviously there is something that they don't want people knowing about, and it is serious enough that they can't hide it.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I agree.  I know she wants to hold out until he releases whatever, but she's going to be president.  If she wants us to trust her, she needs to rise above Trump and not answer everything "well, he's not doing it so I shouldn't have to."

She should release her medical records, the Wall Street transcripts, and anything else people want.  It shouldn't just be about being better than Donald Trump.  The bar to be president should be higher than that, even if this election isn't.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

It's like Obama's birth certificate, the people who don't trust Clinton won't start no matter how much documentation she puts out there.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Obama was purposefully evasive when it came to his birth certificate. I don't think that was the fault of some crazy people, it was the result of his own actions. He made it an issue and then called people crazy for making it an issue.

With Hillary, we have video and photographs going back years, showing us that something is wrong here. She can't claim that people are irrational for wanting answers. Especially since she comes from a party that has spent decades insisting that Reagan was diagnosed with Alzheimer's while in office, despite all evidence pointing to the contrary.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah but saying "she won't ever please anyone" doesn't mean she shouldn't try to please as many people as possible.  She's going to be the president of the United States - not the president of people that like her.  And even if people are going to hate her, she needs to be presidential.  She can't be insulting millions of Americans when she's trying to insult Donald Trump.

And the fact remains that she's almost 70 and she's been showing signs of illness.  And if she's truly going to be president for 4-8 years, we need to know if she's going to survive 4-8 years.  If she's getting exhausted by the campaign, won't being president be 10 times worse? 

And Hillary was the *youngest* of the final three people for President.  It makes you wonder if that job needs an age maximum.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

It probably does. Reagan was almost 70 when he took office, right? I guess he proves that you can be older and still do the job, but I know very few people who are at their best when they're that age. At some point the balance of experience and physical capability is going to be thrown off.

We also need term limits for everyone else, but that is probably another topic entirely.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Term limits is my number one pet peeve.  I think the president should be one, six-year term.  It allows him/her to get work done without ever having to worry about being elected.

If it were me, I'd also make congressional jobs one term.  No re-elections for any job.  If someone is great at something, they can then move and do something else.  Run for the House, do that job for 2-6 years, and then run for the senate for 4-8 years.  Then you can run for president.  Or mayor of some town.  Or governor of some state.  It doesn't matter.

You can be a career politician.  Lots of places need leadership.  But you cannot be a career congressman, and you shouldn't waste time in office running for office.

(If it were me, I'd also disallow concurrent running - so you have to wait an election cycle before running again.  Go work in the community.  Cleanse yourself from political slime.  Then come back if you still want to help people).

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Also, they shouldn't get to decide on their own salaries. Seriously!

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, I've also maintained that the president should not get a salary.  Free room and board, free transportation, and you're set for life once you leave office in a hundred different ways.  Why are we paying them?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I can agree with that. They're supposed to get a fairly modest salary while in office, but they always seem to have way more money than they should. I wonder how that works.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, I can't really think of what they need to spend money on while they're in office.  I can't imagine it's much.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Colin Powell's emails pretty well sum up what the whole country thinks of the two larger party candidates.  Clinton screws up everything she touches, Trump is a national disgrace.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

He'd get no argument from me.

300 (edited by Informant 2016-09-15 09:17:46)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Anyone think that Ashton Kutcher might jump out at the inauguration and reveal that we've all been Punk'd?

Please?

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