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Would he prefer to be the candidate, lose, then claim the election was rigged by the mainstream media and mail in ballot fraud?
This is the reality. Trump’s pattern is to find a way to claim he won even when he lost, and he can’t do that if he just surrenders and quits. No way Trump drops out.
This is the reality. Trump’s pattern is to find a way to claim he won even when he lost, and he can’t do that if he just surrenders and quits. No way Trump drops out.
See, I think the ego would stand in front of that. Trump is the kid who would turn the video game off before the end of the game so that it doesn't record a loss. If he drops out, he can claim fraud without officially having had lost. His election record would be undefeated. Gore may think he won in 2000 and might tell people that he probably actually won, but the history books record that he did. But they don't record that LBJ lost in 1968 because LBJ dropped out.
This is all 100% dependent on him knowing that he will lose. If he thinks he has a shot, he's staying in the race. But I don't see him sticking in an election that he knows he's going to lose, even if he can claim shenanigans. Because he can claim shenanigans and (truthfully) say that he never lost by dropping out.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/08/04/upsh … p-out.html
This was a discussion back in 2016. It obviously didn't happen then (and hurts the argument that he would), but it also shows that it's something that has been discussed before.
The other sort of long shot theory behind it is all the charges that potentially await Trump if he doesn't win. The best way for him to escape that is to literally escape that. Wouldn't it be wild if he did a "diplomatic" trip to Russia, announced he was not running, and then never came back? His old pal Vlad could protect him, and there's nothing the US government could do about it. A trip to Russia as president could be suspicious but at least has a reasonable explanation. A trip to Russia after losing the presidency is going to be harder to pull off.
I find it unlikely that Russia would protect an ex-President Trump who would have nothing to offer Russia after his resignation. That said, I also found it unlikely that Russia would grant Snowden asylum, so what do I know?
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1278012801143865344
Biden came out of his basement.
Biden has been giving speeches and press conferences for a few weeks now, the media just doesn't cover it except MSNBC usually.
As for Trump, ehhhh, he's declared bankruptcy numerous times, and cut and run on many failed businesses. Don't be surprised if he skips town this time either.
Trump is set up to drop out for "medical reasons". That unscheduled trip to Walter Reed earlier this year was laying the groundwork for it.
I find it unlikely that Russia would protect an ex-President Trump who would have nothing to offer Russia after his resignation. That said, I also found it unlikely that Russia would grant Snowden asylum, so what do I know?
He was the president of the United States for four years and has tons of state secrets. He also has a base of millions of Americans that they could use him to manipulate. He'd be the greatest state asset in the history of the world, no?
Trump was certainly exposed to four years' worth of state secrets, but how much (if any) of that information did he actually retain if he even bothered to review it in the first place? How much usable data could a barely literate oaf furnish and what could he say (if anything) that would be credible? I can't see Russian intelligence getting any actionable intel out of his whining about CNN and deep state and Obamagate and any actual details would be warped by his poor recall and reflexive dishonesty.
I'm basing this opinion on how Trump's staff wouldn't allow Robert Mueller to interview Trump as Trump's inability to stop lying would mean he'd perjure himself.
Not sure what to say about Trump's base as I dismissed that in 2016 and proved to be very, very wrong.
Trump is set up to drop out for "medical reasons". That unscheduled trip to Walter Reed earlier this year was laying the groundwork for it.
Already blaming Jared Kushner for giving bad advice for 3.5 years, he whined about that today. The Excuse Express is ready to leave the station.
I fell asleep to Joe Biden's speech last night. I have a lot of issues with Biden, but sometimes, I just want to hear Grandpop saying vaguely reassuring and pleasant things during difficult times. I'm only human.
Hopefully, we'll have more of this and less incoherent, incomprehensible screaming at auto plant workers and college students.
Well he did tell off a Fox News reporter who kept asking him to take cognitive tests, while his opponent again "hoped the virus would just vanish."
The question I have to ask is this: if Joe Biden truly felt that he was cognitively unable to do the job, would he both 1) allow that to be tested and 2) step aside if it was deemed that he was?
Then ask the same two questions about his opponent.
Joe Biden is old. He's not going to be as sharp as he once was. And when that stuff happens, it happens fast. But Biden also cares about the office and the country more than Trump does. So I'm willing to trust that he'll know when he can't handle the job. Trump hasn't realized in three and a half years that he can't handle the job, and that hasn't stopped him from trying for eight.
If we don't want crazy old men, we should stop nominating crazy old men. Until then, we'll have to do the best with what we have.
Something I like about Biden is his willingness to work with others. Kamala Harris blasted him, Bernie Sanders called him ineffectual, Andrew Yang called him weak on the internet -- but Biden has reached out to all of them to help him. The president shouldn't run the country; he should preside over many people running it.
He put Paul Ryan and Sarah Palin in their place. Can he perform against Trump in debates with the steadiness and sincerity and fire he demonstrated in his Wilmington press appearance? Or will he be reduced to incoherence like when Kamala torched him? Biden has been receiving some private coaching from Obama about being terse and spare in his comments.
Why was Biden so weak in the competition for the Democratic nomination? One theory is that the communication skills that made him so effective a politician have faded. But another is that he didn't really want to go on the offensive against his fellow Democrats whereas he has actual aggression to focus against Trump.
First of all, Biden's best defense/offense has been that unlike Donald, he will actually READ the briefings, and listen to the advice of experts. Trump's motto was that smart people are to be laughed at, because he's got all the answers. Remember "stable genius?"
In any event, let's not act like the President needs to be sitting in front of a computer fixated and working like mad as if he were the fat guy trying to unlock the doors in Jurassic Park. Obama did none of that. The President makes decisions, that's his or her job. The information is taken to them. Biden has also been using his experience with foreign leaders as a selling point, something again Trump has been a disaster with, particularly on phone calls.
Lastly, in the debates during the primary, Biden got into trouble when he tried to exaggerate his "liberal" credentials or was unable to dodge modern liberal criticisms on his center-left positions from 30/40 years ago. Here again, is Donald Trump the "guy" to attempt to question Biden's position on racism? The man who TODAY told a FOX news host that black people need to read history or it will happen to them again (re: removing Confederate statues). Think about that, if they take the monuments down, they run the risk of FORGETTING about slavery. This is the guy to critique Biden's decades-old positions? When Trump was being sued for racist housing policies, or later wanted the black Central Park Five executed for a crime they didn't even commit. That guy? Yeah, good luck there. Trump couldn't even respond coherently to Sean Hannity, how do you expect him to fair in a debate?
PS: You guys have to get the primary debates out of your heads. Candidates will say whatever they can to be ingratiated with voters. And yes, Biden may have his work cut out for him, although Mitch McConnell hilariously pleaded with Senate Dems not to remove the filibuster if they retake control. Hilarious, remove it, and push through legislation Americans want to see, who cares if the useless Senate GOP complains. They had 4 years to grow spines.
Why was Biden so weak in the competition for the Democratic nomination? One theory is that the communication skills that made him so effective a politician have faded. But another is that he didn't really want to go on the offensive against his fellow Democrats whereas he has actual aggression to focus against Trump.
He was ineffective against other Dems in his previous presidential runs
This is an interesting theory. Again, good fodder for an alternate reality story if nothing else:
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/worl … 00486.html
Mr Wirth's theory about Mr Trump trying to retain power following the 2020 US election doesn't end at the ballot box, however. He believes that - should the president lose - he will claim the vote was rigged and rely on a complicated gambit involving emergency powers and the compliance of Republican legislators to stay in the White House.
According to Mr Wirth, should Mr Trump lose in a scenario where challenger Joe Biden beats him by "decent but not overwhelming" margins in the swing states of Arizona, Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, Mr Trump will declare that the vote was rigged.
He will supposedly blame mail-in ballots and Chinese election interference for the loss and invoke emergency powers to launch a Justice Department investigation into alleged "election hacking" in the swing states.
From there, Mr Wirth claims Mr Trump will stall until 14 December, which is the date when states must appoint their US Electoral College electors. Because the swing states are each controlled by Republicans, Mr Wirth believes the state legislatures will refuse to certify their electors until the election hacking investigation is finished.
He then claims the Democrats will challenge the investigation and the challenge to the election, which will eventually be taken to the US Supreme Court. Mr Wirth believes the Supreme Court will rule against the Republicans, but will concede that Mr Trump's emergency powers authorise him to continue his investigation. The Supreme Court will also maintain that should the swing states not be able to certify their selectors by 14 December - for any reason - then the Electoral College will have to meet and vote for the president without the swing states included.
Under Mr Wirth's theory, the Electoral College will then meet without the swing states under investigation, and neither candidate will receive enough votes to secure the presidency. According to Mr Wirth, the contested election would then move to the House of Representatives, where each delegation gets to cast one vote towards the presidency.
Since there are more Republican controlled House delegations than Democratic controlled delegations - 26 Republican to 23 Democrats - the Republicans will be the victors of the vote and Mr Trump will remain in office.
Mr. Wirth forgot the part where 10 million people will show up at Trump's front door and escort him out. Also, MI, WI, PA all governed by Democrats so his theory falls apart right there. All Trump would have are recount rules, and his "Emergency Powers" cannot prevent the certification of elections by individual states.
Here's a question I wonder about: does Trump like being president? I think he likes the power. I think he likes the attention. But does he actually like the job? He can have power and attention and do any number of things. He's done enough where he can get (more) wealth and attention doing anything else. He could "write" a book - he could get a movie easily made about his life. He could get a TV show with just about any network.
I agree that he'd probably do anything to keep the job, but I can't imagine he likes the hours or the work. He doesn't seem to like the press conferences. I think he could have essentially everything like he likes about the job without the job.
Trump is probably an addict who loathes his position but can't give it up. Much like me with pizza and Informant with Nazism.
Anyway. Biden could still screw this up and he has a long history of blowing his bids for president. https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/0 … ump-348607
Will he? There's a good chance he'll manage just fine, but a few months ago, his campaign seemed deader than Season 6 of SLIDERS, so reversals can happen.
He clearly hates the job, because he doesn't do it. He doesn't read his briefings, and has failed to set policy objectives which Congress has any chance of passing. Does he enjoy the power? Most likely, but Trump is a narcissist, his ego must be filled continually. He enjoys the reality show aspects, but not the actual job. Trump's absurd projection of himself in the public sphere is what he covets the most.
That is why I am fully positive that he's privately considering ALL options. Voter suppression and Russian interference I'm sure are part of that discussion. But I truly believe he's concocting exit strategies as we speak, based on his polling, Congressional support, emerging scandals, whatever. He might be an idiot when it comes to public policy, but Trump is a savant when it comes to mapping out his own personal parachute. As I've remarked many times, it's what he does. Atlantic City, the USFL, an airline, golf courses, hotels, NBC show, steaks, phony charity, and a real estate university. Each time, when the venture goes belly up, and usually in less than 4 years, he and his family always find a way to do a Blues Brothers under the stage and through the sewer escape. I do not believe we will see Trump get blown out in November. If that seems likely, he will get out. The embarrassment of losing is what he will try to avoid at all costs.
Biden, well, look, in 1987 despite being a fairly well known Senator, he was still a national nobody. He was cleared of the plagiarism, something today we'd all laugh about. He wasn't the main candidate that year anyway, that was Gary Hart. In 2008, yeah he ran, but again, he was not in the conversation early and raised no money so out he went. This time around, unlike any time before, he stepped in as the front runner, the person that the rank and file were hoping to see run. Despite gaffs and the Burisma nonsense, Tara Reade, and whatever else, Biden is still standing. How? The reason is clear, Trump. Donald Trump's loathsomeness has kept the Biden campaign relevant to more voters than anyone else. While the others tried to run on policies, Biden simply ran as the anti-Trump. It's not a slogan, it's just a perception. People know him, they trust him, some even like him. But it's Trump, time and time again, who says and does things which make people cringe. Then they see/hear Joe Biden, and despite his somewhat clumsy way of communicating, is somewhat reassuring. He's like having your savings account FDIC insured. If anyone expects Trump to tone down the rhetoric or develop a sane presence on TV, you need to see a therapist. He's like a tooth ache.
Here's a question I read online:
If Trump agreed to quit today, but in exchange, he got a 30-minute variety show that would be aired nightly until he died on *every* channel....would Americans be okay with that? He gets to be on TV every night (with 100% ratings) for the rest of his life, and we get rid of Trump. I'm 100% sure he'd do it - he brags about TV ratings for his briefings so I think the part he likes most about being president is the fact that everything he does is newsworthy.
But if he quit today, people would still have to call him Mr. President for the rest of his life. He'd still have unlimited business opportunities. And everything he did would still be newsworthy.
I figure he'd take that trade, especially if it meant he didn't have to lose.
I could get behind a couple of these:
https://www.cnn.com/style/article/artis … index.html
I like the one that’s basically an M logo, but I also like this one which is a little simpler (yet still makes a sideways M):
Those all seem too busy. My favorite is the same as yours.
A friend/frenemy of mine has been bragging about how he won't wear a mask except when he can't get into a store without one.
My social media is filled with screenshots of people calling the virus a hoax followed by their obituaries.
I'm starting to feel guilt. I feel like instead of mocking, dismissing and disparaging this alt right Trumpist, I should have reached out to him, been a better friend and been kinder to him. I'm worried about him, but because of how I've positioned myself, he would never listen to me imploring him to, regardless of how he votes, engage in basic self preservation.
**
Slate had a hilarious editorial about how Congress should have paid Trump to resign.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 … -away.html
And this:
https://wdwnt.com/2020/07/guests-not-we … ney-world/
Funny story that starts with “My Dad hated Disney World”.
The last time we went was 2011 when we took my then 11 year old nephew. His parents had taken him once before, but they apparently didn’t do anything on the trip because almost everything we did was something he hadn’t seen before. One of those was the EPCOT fixture, Spaceship Earth.
As you near the end of the ride, there is the expected camera waiting to snap your photo to buy later. I look over at Dad as we approach, and he has his middle finger up to the camera with a smile.
After the ride, my nephew and I of course race down to the screens to see this legendary photo. When it appears, my father’s entire arm has been magically erased, and it’s just a photo of him smiling at the camera! They actually have someone whose job is to watch each photo as it’s taken and do Old West style quick-draw Photoshop before it hits the public view.
That said, I wouldn’t be going to Disney at all right now; but I would certainly wear a mask if I did.
Damn no ride photo!
Hell that Slate editorial is a pretty good damn idea!
https://thebulwark.com/joe-biden-should … ith-texas/
Interesting political commentary on how Texas is unlikely to turn Democrat and Democrats shouldn't devote their resources to what's political fool's gold.
https://www.rev.com/blog/transcripts/do … pt-july-14
I read that entire transcript of Trump's remarks today. So much for the myth of Trump as the master showman.
**
A Biden aide remarked on Trump's campaign: "The President has no message, no rationale for a second term, only tactics of distraction. We have ignored it. We do not care. We see it as totally a flailing, losing campaign."
Biden, however, tweeted that he is advising his staff to "ignore the polls" which strikes me as a solid attitude given how success seemed certain this time in 2016 and now we live in Trump's crapsack world.
**
Slider_Quinn21, do you regret being against a President Hillary Clinton? And would President Clinton be worse? I think you were definitely worried and even certain that she would have dragged the US into additional wars and the very worst aspects of neoliberalism.
There was a crazy amount of Democratic fanfic about how Clinton's lost presidency was a lost golden age, but that's silly. Even if Clinton were an angelic president, she would have been stymied by congressional gridlock and obstructionism and her own fealty to her corporate backers.
Trump is mentally ill.
Biden's campaign are doing a little in Texas and some other states, but most of their upcoming ad buys are in the rust belt, where he's now further ahead. They win those states, they win the White House. Don't need Texas or even Florida where he's further and further ahead. Trump is Biden's best campaigner at this point. The buffoon just makes it easier and easier for Joe. His latest anti-Biden slogan was you'll have war in the streets if we elect Biden, yet the video clips were shot during TRUMP's term!!!!!!!!
Trump is going down the drain as the virus rages. Hillary Clinton would not have behaved in the manner Trump has with the virus. Shit, I don't think Ted Cruz would have been this much of a total jackass. This virus is worse than people realize. It may never go away, like the common cold, and infect people year after year. Immunity, even with a vaccine, sounds unlikely to last very long. At some point, society may just have to live with it, and those who are sickly or at risk, will be totally fucked. Idiots like Trump, Brazil's Bolsonero, Putin, and others allowed this virus to blow up the world.
Beyond that, would Hillary have been embroiled in the kinds of impeachable scandals left and right as Trump? I doubt it. The email thing was a total joke. Ivanka got caught doing the same thing months into the Trump regime. As for wars, well I'm not sure how she would have dealt with Russian aggression, or Syria, or whatever? Whatever she had planned, it sure beats the hell out of enduring the disaster this pandemic has made of the world.
This virus is worse than people realize. It may never go away, like the common cold, and infect people year after year. Immunity, even with a vaccine, sounds unlikely to last very long. At some point, society may just have to live with it, and those who are sickly or at risk, will be totally fucked.
Well, remember the virus evolves as well. A "smart" virus evolves to be less deadly. A virus that kills a bunch of people is a "dumb" virus, and evolution tends to keep those down. Not only that, a quick-killing virus is less likely to spread. A no-killing virus is more likely to spread and survive.
I think coronavirus will survive but like with the common cold and the flu, we'll find an equilibrium with it. We'll live and it will live. Yeah there will be a cold/flu/corona season, but we'll have a vaccine. So when you get it, it'll knock you on your butt for a few days but it won't kill as many people or be as big of a problem.
Slider_Quinn21, do you regret being against a President Hillary Clinton? And would President Clinton be worse? I think you were definitely worried and even certain that she would have dragged the US into additional wars and the very worst aspects of neoliberalism.
I don't regret being against her. She was a bad candidate and deserved to lose. And she played a role (if not a key role) in convincing Trump to run. She got the exact opponent she wanted, and we're paying for it. And I think she stymied democracy in the Democratic Party for two decades to get elected. Obama being a miracle candidate was the only reason it didn't show up earlier. I don't believe in any of the crap coming out of the right about her being a killer or a sex criminal or anything, but I think she's a bad person. And I don't believe in voting for bad people.
I'm glad she lost. I wasn't thrilled that Trump won, but I'm less mad at him and more disappointed in everyone else. I thought the leaders in Europe and the rest of the West would step up and do more in the US' absence. They really haven't done much. I thought a clear enemy like Trump would spawn a new generation of politicians that want to be everything Trump isn't. I haven't seen that. I thought the GOP would stab him in the back the first chance they got. They didn't. I thought the loss would be a wakeup call that would get the Democrats to clean up their own house. They haven't.
I think President Hillary would have done significantly better than Trump on the virus. I think she would've listened to scientists earlier, and I think she would've worked better with everyone to get better materials and better protection.
But I think America was in a bad place for this. People were worried about America's readiness for a pandemic in the Obama era. Hillary wouldn't have dismantled the task force, but I don't know how much good that would've done. America's healthcare problem would've continued under Hillary because the Republican Senate would've killed everything she tried to pass.
I think Trump has been terrible, but our problem is societal. The problems in New York would've still happened. And I think the issues in the South would've been worse. People in the South are resistant to government-based lockdowns and mask requirements and school closings with Trump. How bad would it be with Hillary? George Floyd still would have died with Hillary so the protests would still be happening, causing issues politically.
America is really big and with really high global traffic and a citizenry that doesn't like being told what to do. Wearing masks in Asia is commonplace. More socialist places in Europe and Canada are more happy to follow government instructions for the common good. America still has that rebellious spirit, and that would've happened under Hillary or Obama or Bush or whoever. Trump made it worse, but I don't know how much worse. The tests would've been better. The doctors would've been more prepared. The scientists would've been up front. But I honestly can't say whether or not there'd be less deaths or less cases. I think we were in trouble either way.
We love alternate history here, but I honesty don't think it'd be noticeably different if Hillary had won. Trump is an all-time crook and phony, but he's been very ineffectual politically. I think he's done some economic and global things that will have ramifications down the road, but I'm not one of those people that think it's going to take decades to get passed.
I don't know if that answers your question. I don't think I would vote for her in 2016 if I had the chance, and my vote wouldn't have mattered either way if I did.
A President Hillary Clinton would have been highly ineffective, to say the least. But her campaign was bad and her candidacy was completely mismatched to the moment. Her record was one of global conflict and a fervent, ardent devotion to big banks and corporations. Her unwillingness to accept fault for self inflicted scandals was absurd. Her inability to connect with the electorate without every word she spoke having been scripted and refined by 10 staffers made her insincere and unrelatable. She ran an awful campaign that seemed competent only because of what she was running against, except her polling measures were clearly inept and useless because she thought she was winning when she wasn't.
Hillary has an absurd quote where when asked if she'd run again in 2020, she replied that she could probably beat Trump "again." You can't beat someone again when you've only ever lost to them. Never has a candidate in this digital age seemed so inhuman.
For all of Biden's gapingly problematic issues, Biden can relate to an audience and is not taking victory for granted.
Well, we've brought the virus under control in NJ, NY, CT, PA, MA. Yeah it took awhile of quite a bit of hardship, but we still did it with almost no worthwhile help from Trump. Had he stood with the doctors, the country would be where Europe is right now, or Canada, or yes even China. Instead we're as bad as Brazil or Russia.
Well, we've brought the virus under control in NJ, NY, CT, PA, MA. Yeah it took awhile of quite a bit of hardship, but we still did it with almost no worthwhile help from Trump. Had he stood with the doctors, the country would be where Europe is right now, or Canada, or yes even China. Instead we're as bad as Brazil or Russia.
Yeah but it'd be just as bad or worse in the South. If Hillary had suggested wearing masks, I think even less people would've listened to her. There might not even have been shutdowns as Republican governors would've worked against Hillary. I think the divide might've even been worse because there would've been irate/irrational hate against the Clinton administration as the election draws nearer.
I don't know how a President Clinton would've made any of that better.
Well, remember the virus evolves as well. A "smart" virus evolves to be less deadly. A virus that kills a bunch of people is a "dumb" virus, and evolution tends to keep those down. Not only that, a quick-killing virus is less likely to spread. A no-killing virus is more likely to spread and survive.
Indeed, while the number of cases is rising again the number of COVID-related deaths has continued to drop.
In 2016, after Trump won, I wrote a SLIDERS script called "Resistance" where Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt, Arturo, Maggie and Diana discuss what they're going to do about it, whether or not they're going to use sliding and Sliders Incorporated to remove him. The sliders are all on board for this, but Quinn isn't, declaring that Sliders Incorporated is an apolitical relief organization, that ordinary people put Trump in power and have to be the ones to remove him, that it's an opportunity to recognize how Democrats can no longer ignore impoverished citizens and crumbling infrastructure while propping up corporations, that administrations come and go and Sliders Incorporated has to keep doing what it's doing -- social services, charity, research and development, and stealthily gifting interdimensional technology to the world. The end has Quinn and the other sliders deciding to volunteer with various other charities that will oppose Trump's policies on a civic and municipal level.
Transmodiar was kind enough to write Quinn's political opinions for me. Nigel Mitchell read the script and told me it was absurd, saying it was silly to present Donald Trump as some kind of supervillain.
Now we have Trump turning a blind eye to a pandemic that's killed nearly 140,000 people, sending stormtroopers into Portland to arrest anyone on the streets, demanding that schools reopen in the midst of a pandemic with no regard for children, tweeting White Power videos and having to be talked into taking it down, gassing protesters for a photo op -- I've never said this about Nigel Mitchell before, but Nigel was wrong. And also, I was wrong -- I was wrong to present a script where Quinn Mallory would declare that inaction, distant observation would be the best solution or to mischaracterize Quinn, a social justice activist and a moral crusader who could never stay away from people in trouble, as commanding the sliders to sit out a crisis.
SLIDERS REBORN was a dream project and I wanted to treat it was though it were real; as though the world that Quinn inhabited was our world. But I see now that simply isn't the case. The election results came in at a time when I was engaged in some world-building and seeking to present an interdimensional version of San Francisco as existing in our own reality with our electoral outcome. I see now that it was a mistake to write a script where Quinn would confront Trump but ultimately not do anything, a script that in retrospect declares Quinn to be ineffectual, cowardly and incompetent. I should simply have never put Quinn in that situation and accepted that REBORN and the real world had diverged.
I made a mistake. I got it wrong.
Grizzlor wrote:Well, we've brought the virus under control in NJ, NY, CT, PA, MA. Yeah it took awhile of quite a bit of hardship, but we still did it with almost no worthwhile help from Trump. Had he stood with the doctors, the country would be where Europe is right now, or Canada, or yes even China. Instead we're as bad as Brazil or Russia.
Yeah but it'd be just as bad or worse in the South. If Hillary had suggested wearing masks, I think even less people would've listened to her. There might not even have been shutdowns as Republican governors would've worked against Hillary. I think the divide might've even been worse because there would've been irate/irrational hate against the Clinton administration as the election draws nearer.
I don't know how a President Clinton would've made any of that better.
Yeah, good points!
I’m confident SQ21 has had this experience as well; but I’ve lived in The South my entire life, and people generally don’t understand how to deal with Southerners. The mistake being made is that everyone is trying to state reasons and telling people to wear masks. Southerners don’t like being told to do anything. You have to make a Southerner believe the whole thing was their idea.
I know it’s foolish and it shouldn’t be necessary; but if you want to communicate an idea, you have to speak the language of the land you’re in.
How could this be done? A series of PSAs presenting skits reminiscent of things you might see on the Andy Griffith show. Random example - a joke causes a spit-take spraying another person’s face with colored water. Someone nearby comments, “Boy, sure glad **I** got a mask on!” Everybody laughs while the guy covered in colored water sulks.
People always joke about how smarter they are than Southerners. Well...outsmart them! It’s truly not difficult, but people have to try. That’s not happening right now, and probably would not have happened in a Hillary administration either.
Sounds like a Jon Stewart bit there TF!!!! Not for nothing, but you have anti-mask demonstrations everywhere, not only in The South, and Florida is down there but has dummies who hailed from up North too.
Meanwhile, Trump's niece is a cable ratings hit with her book that is flying off the virtual shelves. Chuckle chuckle chuckle.
One of my frenemies is insisting that the world is lying to claim that Trump is a failed crisis manager, a failure of a president and a selfish, greedy monstrosity.
His counterargument is to share third/fourth/fifth-hand anecdotes about how Trump was said to be generous to many random strangers over the years, paying off people's mortgages, sending them flowers and settling their medical bills -- all of which is argued with unsubstantiated, unproven, unverified hearsay delivered by people who heard it and repeated it. None of these anecdotes are told by the supposed beneficiaries in these stories. None of these tall tales in any way counter the fact that 140,000 Americans are dead from COVID-19 and there is no federal response to treatment or manufacturing protective equipment.
It is truly frightening to see a supposedly-intelligent individual fall prey to complete cult thinking where his chosen leader cannot be questioned and any positive claims, no matter how unprovable or devoid of evidence they may be, are declared to be absolutely true while any criticism is uniformly false even when there's a six figure count of bodies.
The whole Trump experience is exhausting. I am pretty level headed and have a high tolerance for stupidity so I don't have a problem reading comment sections and going Twitter diving to try and understand what people see. What drives me the craziest is the backwards logic people are willing to use.
Sleepy Joe. Biden has dementia. He's so old. Trump is also old. Trump took a dementia test for some reason. And Trump is constantly golfing, either because he needs to de-stress or because he wasn't working hard in the first place.
Tara Reade. Biden is a rapist. Biden is a pedophile. Trump has a whole wikipedia page devoted to his rape accusations. He has ties to Epstein. He regularly dates women decades and decades younger than him.
Biden was VP for 8 years. Why didn't he fix anything? Trump is in office *now* and isn't doing anything.
I'm sure Biden isn't a saint. I'm sure Trump isn't actually the devil. I'm sure there are anecdotal stories that could make both sound like either. Sure, Biden could've done more in 40 years of service. But at the end of the day, he at least knows what he's doing and will hire people who know what they're doing. I watched the entire Wallace interview, and Trump is just a buffoon. Even when he's making good points, he's a buffoon.
Two different times, he stopped the interview to fact check something he'd said. Both times he was wrong. But something was striking about it - he was *so* convinced he was right. And both times, he inferred that he was *told something* about it.
It's been said many times that Trump doesn't read his briefings. It's been surmised as well that Trump could either be illiterate or at least functionally illiterate. My thought is that a lot of Trump's "lies" are actually things he was told by someone that he believed. I think Trump likes to hear good news and people tell him good news to keep him in a good mood. Or he reads it on some conservative site and believes it.
Either way, we need a change.
What it comes down to is, unfortunately, a lot of Trump supporters aren't stupid. Some of them are brilliant intellects. And they admire Trump declaring what reality is without knowledge, information or awareness and when it's contradiction to reality; they want to behave the same way themselves: to declare themselves right regardless of the facts, to declare themselves above self-correction in response to new information. It isn't foolishness as much as a delusional sense of overinflated ego and admiring the biggest ego on display right now. We underestimate the savage, cruel intelligence of a Trumpist at our peril.
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Biden is a problematic candidate on many levels. But throughout his career, he's shown the ability to get elected through choosing positions that are blandly triangulative enough to be tolerated by a wide enough variety of people, something he's put to use in working with the Sanders campaign on his electoral platform. He's also been accepting tutelage from Obama and it's clear that he's hiring twentysomething speechwriters; that's why all of his Medium posts and public statements recently have him talking like he's Captain America: thoughtul but commanding, principled but emotional, resolute but open-minded, authoritative but protective. I could easily imagine Chris Evans delivering Biden's recent promise of justice and sanction against electoral interference after he takes office. The campaign is good.
How much does it reflect the man? It's probably a reflection of his best qualities while not in any way presenting his true, complicated self: he's not as progressive as most would hope, he was in favour of mass incarceration bills, he's played fast and loose with campaign financing tricks, he's been vicious on drug users, he was in favour of Iraq despite the obviously faulty intelligence, he supported mass surveillance of Americans -- but he's also shown the ability to shift as circumstances change and people need his help. He is willing to change in response to new information and his vision of the presidency is to preside and delgate.
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We're looking at a very difficult situation ahead of us. Biden is currently enjoying a double digit lead, but that could tighten. Trump's route to 270 electoral votes is near-impossible, but if the race tightens, it could get close. Close is a problem because the pandemic means the vote count will not be instant; it'll be delayed for at least a week during which, if the election is undecided, Trump could open numerous court challenges to try to block uncounted votes or claim electoral votes where the tallies aren't complete.
Nancy Pelosi remarked of Trump declaring he wouldn't accept the results of the election: "Whether he knows it yet, or not, he will be leaving. Just because he might not want to move out of the White House doesn't mean we won't have an inauguration ceremony to inaugurate a duly elected president of the United States. The presidency is the presidency. It's not geography or location. It has nothing to do with a certain occupant of the White House doesn't feel like moving and has to be fumigated out of there." But for this certainty, the outcome cannot be within a few thousand votes. The Democrats can't just win a few points ahead of Trumpism; it's not a victory unless they put it in the ground.
What does it say that Trump has to have failed SO badly in managing the COVID-19 crisis for Biden to have any shot unseating him in November?
While I don't live in America, a good portion of my income depends on the United States having a stable, reliable government with a thriving population in a strong economy. Under Trump, America is alternatively a war zone or a graveyard. Battlefields and fields of corpses are not conducive to business transactions. Trump has proven completely incapable of managing any hardship, crisis or difficulty. It's in my financial interest that Trump be voted out of office with such an overwhelming electoral defeat that he has no grounds to challenge the results beyond bluster and whining.
I would have preferred that the 2020 election unfold as the (relatively) bloodless culture war of Trumpism versus resurgent progressive Democrats like Andrew Yang. Instead, what we have is a catastrophic country of stormtroopers running amok with no way to prosecute their crimes against civilians and a health crisis where the federal government is stealing medical supplies rather than distributing them and insisting that there is no pandemic and banking on magical thinking to resolve the crisis. At this point, only way a strong federal response to the pandemic, to the recession and to the global tensions can be mounted is if Trump is defeated at the ballot box.
What does it say that Trump has to have failed SO badly in managing the COVID-19 crisis for Biden to have any shot unseating him in November?
I know you're down on Biden, but Trump was a long shot to win no matter who his opponent was going to be. We can argue all day about whether Biden is the worst candidate or a boring candidate, but he's *crushing* Trump. Trump is going to have to work his ass off to get to 200 electoral votes at this point. If this was Obama, Trump might struggle to get to 100 electoral votes.
I've said this so many times but the math is the math. The US has had shifting demographics for a long time, and there just aren't enough white conservatives to justify the GOP's insane "only campaign for whites" agenda. I live in Texas, which everyone would expect would be Trump country and I don't know one (1) person who would vote for him. I don't even think I know someone who would lie about it and then vote for him secretly. Polls in Texas are showing Biden up. I don't think Biden wins Texas, but the fact that it's even in play shows how much trouble the Republicans are in. Because if the Democrats have Texas, New York, and California, it's over. Absolutely over. And that's not only a real possibility - it's a near certainty.
And we can take a shit on polls all we want and point over and over again to 2016 as the main reason, but 2016 was such an aberration. Things that are one in a million happen once every million times - it doesn't mean that the percentages were wrong if that one time happens first or fifth or whenever. Yes, the polls were wrong, but they've never been that wrong before or since.
Trump was so bad his whole presidency that no matter who emerged from the Democratic field, he was going to lose. That's why every single candidate (Bernie, Warren, Biden, Mayor Pete, Klobuchar, Yang, etc) was polling ahead of Trump. The math was on their side.
And we can take a shit on polls all we want and point over and over again to 2016 as the main reason, but 2016 was such an aberration. Things that are one in a million happen once every million times - it doesn't mean that the percentages were wrong if that one time happens first or fifth or whenever. Yes, the polls were wrong, but they've never been that wrong before or since.
People are scared to tell anyone they’re voting for Trump, though. We live in a culture right now where using the wrong pronoun in a sentence might get you fired from your job (not to mention social implications). The step-mother of the police officer who killed Rayshard Brooks in Atlanta was fired because she married the wrong person - she didn’t even say anything.
Regardless of how badly the polls are skewed, you would think the Democrats would want them to show a razor thin race. If Biden is shown to be 15 points ahead, you will see Biden voters not worry about donating or voting (especially in a pandemic). It’s just incredibly unwise to encourage voters to be overconfident and lazy. That’s part of what lost Hillary her election; she skipped campaign opportunities in places like Wisconsin because she was overconfident those voters were in the bag.
I know you're down on Biden, but Trump was a long shot to win no matter who his opponent was going to be. We can argue all day about whether Biden is the worst candidate or a boring candidate, but he's *crushing* Trump. Trump is going to have to work his ass off to get to 200 electoral votes at this point. If this was Obama, Trump might struggle to get to 100 electoral votes.
Let's not conflate the polls; Biden isn't crushing Trump, TRUMP is crushing himself with his grandstanding and draconian actions. Biden is a complete non-entity who knows that if he just sits things out and doesn't make any major appearances or accept any debates, his vacuum leaves Trump flailing in the wind, damaging himself. If Covid wasn't around Biden would be in terrible shape; he's a bully and a hothead, just not as big of one as our Cheeto-in-Chief.
And we can take a shit on polls all we want and point over and over again to 2016 as the main reason, but 2016 was such an aberration. Things that are one in a million happen once every million times - it doesn't mean that the percentages were wrong if that one time happens first or fifth or whenever. Yes, the polls were wrong, but they've never been that wrong before or since.
People are scared to tell anyone they’re voting for Trump, though.
After 2016, no Democrat or left-leaning person can look at Biden's double digit lead without having flashbacks to Hillary Clinton's lead and remembering how it evapourated on election night. Polls are, in my view, a broad overview. A potential outcome. Yes, Trump's path to getting his 270 votes is difficult and nearly impossible. Yes, Biden's lead is so high that even if the polls are wrong, he's still on track to victory.
Yes, Trump looks done. But so did Biden a few months ago. Who's to say Trump couldn't experience the same reversal of political fortune? Or that the polls aren't misfiring like they did in 2016 and slanted just enough to see Trump win enough electoral votes even if he lost the popular vote? Is it likely? No. It's not likely. But you can't say it's impossible because it happened once and it could happen again if Democrats and Never Trump voters become complacent and think they're simply entitled to functioning government and take it for granted (again).
Ignore the polls. We have work to do.
Let's not conflate the polls; Biden isn't crushing Trump, TRUMP is crushing himself with his grandstanding and draconian actions.
Agreed.
Biden is a complete non-entity who knows that if he just sits things out and doesn't make any major appearances or accept any debates, his vacuum leaves Trump flailing in the wind, damaging himself.
Letting your opponent implode is a strategy. Obama's campaigns were often about being steady and measured and letting John McCain and Mitt Romney self-destruct on their own.
If Covid wasn't around Biden would be in terrible shape; he's a bully and a hothead, just not as big of one as our Cheeto-in-Chief.
I'd agree that historically, Biden has been a twit. How about that time he babbled an invitation to take a stand to a man in a wheelchair or described Barack Obama as "clean" as if to imply black people are generally dirty? But... something seems to have changed. For now.
His campaign is impressive. I'm sure it's less that Biden has always been how his campaign presents him. It's more likely that his doctor prescribed the right psychostimulants or his recent college grad speechwriters have found the right font or his speech therapist has given him some new techniques to master his stutter. But something has clicked in his working with Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren on his platform, in his statements warning Russia of a reckoning, in his declaring that the climate crisis is an opportunity to create jobs, in his warning his own wealthy donors that they won't like his tax policies, in his calling shareholder economy a farce.
Whoever handles his Twitter account has distilled his desired public image into a persona of warmth and understanding and I know it's just a PR campaign, but if he could live up to it, this could be something really special. Crisis can bring out the best and worst in us. The campaign presents Biden as someone who is remaking himself to meet the moment and I like it. But I recognize that it is an ideal, not a reality.
I will resume my former frustration at Joe Biden being the Democrat standard bearer after the election. You won't catch me sharing anecdotes of hearsay about Biden's supposed generosity after the election or screaming "fake news" at any of his critics.
People are scared to tell anyone they’re voting for Trump, though.
Putting a sign in your yard is one thing, but an anonymous poll? I don't know if there's enough people that trend that way. And if they did, where would they end up? Would they go as far as to say they're voting for Biden? To impress some random pollster? Or would you say undecided? Or say they won't vote? Because Biden is usually winning states by higher than the undecided level of votes.
Are Trump voters screwing with the polls to make it look like Biden is going to win? Maybe. But I also don't see the point in that. Because voter suppression works the other way. Why would fiscal conservatives that don't like Trump that much bother going to vote if he's going to get crushed? You'd only hold your nose and vote if you thought it would matter. Sure, the hardcore MAGAs will go no matter what, but how many of those people are there?
If Covid wasn't around Biden would be in terrible shape; he's a bully and a hothead, just not as big of one as our Cheeto-in-Chief.
I absolutely agree that Biden isn't doing much to gain votes, but Biden was winning before this all started. So was Bernie. So was Warren. So was Mayor Pete. So was Yang. They were all winning. "Vote Blue no matter who" was and still is in full force. So whether it was Biden or Popeye or Tony Soprano or John Kerry or Liz Warren or or whoever, the result was trending the same way.
Can it turn around? Sure. Can Biden mess it up? Absolutely. But Biden has so many things going for him. The one (1) thing that Trump can brag about is the economy, and it's only going to get worse. Covid isn't going to get better no matter how much he decides to flip-flop on masks. The school thing can only backfire on him (if nothing happens, he won't get enough points - if anything goes wrong, it torpedoes him with the middle class). And Trump isn't going to be able to get the level of crazy momentum he got from rallies because people are going to be just as hesitant to show up as they were in Tulsa. Biden has BLM rallying for his cause, and Obama is already more active for him than he was for Hillary so I would expect the black vote to be back in play (which helps him in Michigan and Pennsylvania).
Yes, Trump is losing more than Biden is winning. But ireactions is right, this is the strategy that anyone would've taken.
Five Thirty Eight's explanation for why Hillary lost in 2016 despite all the polling: the race tightened shortly before the election. Hillary was only ahead of Trump by 3.3 points -- but polls are generally off by 2 - 4 points that are conceivably in either direction, meaning Trump could have been (and was) slightly ahead. Five Thirty Eight also points out that Biden has a much bigger lead on Trump than Clinton ever had, 9 - 15 points ahead, which would require a much bigger polling error than even in 2016. Right now, it looks good. But right now is not November.
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Five Thirty Eight says that there is little evidence for secret Trump voters being widespread. They may exist to a degree, but not significantly. If there were, the polls would have underestimated Trump's support in deep blue areas. This wasn't the case; blue state polls overestimated Trump's voters. Trump's supporters turned out to have been most underestimated in usually Republican states. There was only a 1- 2 per cent gap, not enough to significantly affect results. Trump's upset was due to Hillary's lead eroding to being within the margin of error. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q68gy2ZvuPM
I would welcome this being debunked if it's wrong.
https://twitter.com/nick_ramsey/status/ … 9940897800
Trump attempts to explain how he passed his "cognitive test," making me feel like the principal at the end of Billy Madison.
I'll put that clip up against any Sleepy Joe video the MAGAs want to throw at him. I don't think Trump has dementia, but I don't have any idea why he was given that test. Maybe he asked for it and his doctors gave it to him for a laugh. If it wasn't a real test, we know that Trump wasted at least (per him) 30 minutes to an hour messing around with a meaningless test. If it was real, he's either showing symptoms of dementia, Alzheimers or Parkinsons.
Obama and Biden, sitting on opposite sides of a room, having entered separately in masks, talking about public service in the face of crisis.
https://twitter.com/JoeBiden/status/1286300138239979527
Beautiful. But it's left-wing propaganda, of course. Just because the propaganda is on my 'side' and calculated to my sentiments, morals and values doesn't mean I should fail to recognize it for what it is.
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I'm supporting Biden in this election as best I can (as a Canadian) because there's a crisis and we're on the same side. In recent months, I also supported Doug Ford, the premier of my province (basically a Canadian equivalent of a state governor) because we were in a crisis.
Premier Ford, a far right conservative and basically a Canadian version of Donald Trump, proved himself unlike Trump with COVID-19. Ford had the sense to shut his stupid mouth during the height of the pandemic and speak only after public health officials, hospital managers, protective gear manufacturers and federal advisors had fed him the information he was to deliver and the guidance he was to provide.
Now that my province's economy is slowly, slowly reopening, I will resume my usual position of writing angry messages to Premier Ford's office about how he's ending extended benefits to low income workers who were laid off or furloughed, how he's making it easier for landlords to evict tenants and how his insistence on having individual cities set up their mask mandates is cowardice and how his extending his emergency powers is plainly a political grab.
I look forward to resuming my former position of frustration, irritation and dismay with Grandpa Biden after the election. I would rather be contending with him than with Trump.
If Biden wins, it'll be up to a lot of people to hold him to any progressive ideals he's discussed. Even if they're not in his cabinet or administration, he's going to need to listen to all the progressives that have helped him get elected. A man of his age in whatever health he's in is going to need a lot of help, and I'd like to see his administration full of young and diverse people looking to make positive change and undo any harm Trump has done. We may not expect Biden to get a lot of change done himself, but people he hires can absolutely help.
Biden would be hamstrung by a GOP Senate, even if a minority, that would refuse pretty much anything he or Pelosi/Schumer were to propose. Bernie, Warren, Pete, Harris, Amy, all would have the same roadblock. The GOP simply isn't interested in government-based social programs, such as child care, education, public healthcare option, etc. Bernie couldn't get most Democrats to sign his 10% cut to the DoD in order to fund other priorities. The lobbyists are too strong.
Ted Cruz is the front runner they say for 2024. He just said Americans are stuck at home and depressed so they'll vote for Biden.
https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1286020941672153089
As for Trump, this article really hits the nail on the head. Trump is simply a man devoid of a soul, constantly bitter, with nothing that interests him besides making people's lives miserable. He is only guided by the grudges he holds.
Change doesn't only have to come from Congress. Change can simply come about from rejoining the Paris Accords. Helping shift the country towards cleaner energy. Working with our allies on pandemic prevention and response. Stuff like that is easily done from the executive branch. Trump has done next to nothing legislation-wise, but we've still felt the impact of his presidency.
Biden anticipates a slim Senate majority that will require eliminating the filibuster to enact his legislation.
Change doesn't only have to come from Congress. Change can simply come about from rejoining the Paris Accords. Helping shift the country towards cleaner energy. Working with our allies on pandemic prevention and response. Stuff like that is easily done from the executive branch. Trump has done next to nothing legislation-wise, but we've still felt the impact of his presidency.
Trump has no concept of government, which is why every cue he takes is from the playbook of Pinochet, Castro, Putin, etc. And yes, Biden would almost certainly reverse most all of Trump's executive orders quite quickly.
Biden anticipates a slim Senate majority that will require eliminating the filibuster to enact his legislation.
I don't think he supports that, but it's not up to him anyway.
Much of what happens in 2021 IMO will depend on what the GOP refuses to include in the CV stimulus they're currently arguing among themselves about. The Democratic House bill is $3 trillion but provides funding to just about everything. The GOP draft plan does not. You're likely to see massive layoffs from state workers, in addition to all the people who've lost jobs in the private sector already, due to completely dead industries. Those people will be legit homeless by then, especially since the GOP plan does nothing to stop evictions.
Trump's only path to victory is to make incredibly big improvements across the board by November. Improvements in the economy, in jobs, in housing, in healthcare. He might need to completely end the Pandemic by November if he wants to win.
Since he doesn't know how to do any of that...
What's funny is that Trump's best chance was to do his job well, and he still couldn't do that.
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