Topic: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Peacock has probably the clearest closest to hd Sliders has ever had, watching "Map of the Mind" today.  So when Diane is drawing on the walls you can clearly see it has a pencil mark on the wall and she I'd just tracing with black marker.

It's a goof I've never noticed, granted it is a rarely watched episode for me

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

I find this difficult to believe given everyone else's descriptions of poor video quality on Peacock.

I think it's likely, of course, that the Sci-Fi Channel episodes look better than the rest due to Seasons 4 - 5 being filmed on 16mm film stock with larger film grains that retain detail when downscaled to 480p for digital videotape editing in the late 90s.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Well don't forget Sliders has never had an HD release, and bandwidth is not really an issue for something like Peacock.  You're literally streaming directly off a server, vs. other sources.  Something like Comet is I'm sure compressed badly, as it often was on cable TV.  The DVD's were compressed, with the Mill Creek being hideous.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

I don't have Peacock. Does anyone with Peacock find the quality to be "near-HD"? (I watched SAVED BY THE BELL through a temporary Stack subscription in Canada.)

The DVD compression for SLIDERS on the Universal discs was not particularly high for a DVD release. I previously said it was; I was mistaken.

Seasons 2 - 3 look fine as 35mm film transferred to 540 line digital videotape, Seasons 4 - 5 look good as 16mm film transferred to 540 line digital videotape.

The blurriness of Season 1's second to ninth episodes is not from DVD compression; the low-compression SD blu-ray release from Germany is even blurrier. The problem is that the film was transferred to low resolution videotape for editing and special effects and with incorrect interlacing on "Prince of Wails," "Fever," "Last Days," "Eggheads" and "Luck of the Draw"; the even and odd fields were swapped by mistake and created jagged edges, flickering lines and increased blur when DVD and blu-ray players attempt to deinterlace the image.

The SD blu-ray of the Season 1 episodes, while detelecined to remove the interlacing errors, is blurrier because it's a 540i PAL format which was produced by Universal simply stretching the video format from 480i to 540i and changing the framerate. In contrast, the Season 2 - 5 episodes, transferred from film to high fidelity SD digital videotape for editing and effects, retain much of the film grain quality of the video images thanks to low-compression SD files in the high capacity blu-ray format.

The pilot looks really sharp and defined in the Universal DVD, moreso than any subsequent episode. Seasons 4 - 5 may look superficially sharper, but that's due to larger 16mm film grains adding high edge contrast when downscaled to SD. The pilot, when reviewed through the magnifying glass of AI upscaling, is so crisply defined that I wonder if the pilot episode were actually edited on 35mm film, being a higher budgeted production than the series that followed and designed specifically to sell a weekly series to networks.

5 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2022-01-29 08:21:36)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Honestly, even season 5 on Peacock is nowhere near close to HD.  It's very watchable though quality wise.

It is comparitively better I think probably than the the stream that used to be on Netflix (and Hulu although hulu didn't have seasons 4-5).  It is probably better than the vod purchases you'd get from the cable operator if  you bought the episodes through that platform.  Or through like Amazon (or maybe itunes).

I haven't paid that close attention to season 5's look across all platforms.  I do know that netflix was always worse than what peacock gave for the rest of the content, the cable operator was even worse than netflix, amazon was also pretty bad.  I mostly looked at S1&S2.   Comet at times haven't been awful for the later episodes I think.

Looking at what's on Peacock, they could easily up-res S5 with Topaz and come up with a pretty respectable image that wouldn't match HD but maybe get closer.  I think what  they have on now for S5 is respectable enough as SD content, compartively better looking than earlier seasons and probably better than we've seen it on other streaming / vod platforms in the 2007-2018 era.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Good to hear that the Sci-Fi Channel years are faring well on Peacock.

How does the pilot look? And episodes 2 - 9? And Seasons 2 - 3?

On DVD, the pilot looks amazing, the eight episodes after that look terrible, Season 2 looks okay, Season 3 looks great, and Seasons 4 - 5 are excellent standard definition video.

It's a shame that the best episodes of SLIDERS have terrible to average quality aside from the pilot whereas the worst in creative quality look the best visually.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

ireactions wrote:

Good to hear that the Sci-Fi Channel years are faring well on Peacock.

How does the pilot look? And episodes 2 - 9? And Seasons 2 - 3?

On DVD, the pilot looks amazing, the eight episodes after that look terrible, Season 2 looks okay, Season 3 looks great, and Seasons 4 - 5 are excellent standard definition video.

It's a shame that the best episodes of SLIDERS have terrible to average quality aside from the pilot whereas the worst in creative quality look the best visually.

I'll take some screenshots.  The stuff that's early has soft and fuzzy edges.  It's not DVD quality from everything I recall... I believe when I got the German release I saw a significant difference with peacock goodfellas vs. It.

I'm quite picky with this stuff and have generally founded it dated looking as far as earlier seasons, pilot included.  The colonization is also an issue for me.  This is something that I think the later seasons, across all platforms suffer less from.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Where are the screencaps?! How can you let me down after everything!?

:-)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

SEASON 1 is fuzzy, but also more defined than the dvd's.. this is a free show on peacock, with very few commercial breaks
.  The episode order seems to be broadcast, but so are the dvds, the show will play in broadcast order with no stops if you want, season 2 looks slightly better.

Just started season 3, watched most of season 5, and to me it looks great.

Granted my TV is 4k 65" vs an old 32" LG, so maybe it has more to do with tv, but I'm enjoying my rewatch.

Trying to get my wife into it, but she isn't a fan, views Quinn as a bad guy getting them involved in sliding, without solving the equation or really testing it before he took the group on the adventure.  The recast of the mom in season 2, and casting Clevants twin witch doesn't look identical to anyone but the cast is throwing her for a loop...(I was not a fan of Harry Potterrewatches, so she's dishing it back:)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

ireactions wrote:

Where are the screencaps?! How can you let me down after everything!?

:-)

It will definitely happen smile  Tuesday at worst, tomorrow night at best.

It's terrible peacock isn't available in Canada!

11 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2022-01-30 22:09:20)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

sliders5125 wrote:

SEASON 1 is fuzzy, but also more defined than the dvd's.. this is a free show on peacock, with very few commercial breaks
.  The episode order seems to be broadcast, but so are the dvds, the show will play in broadcast order with no stops if you want, season 2 looks slightly better.

Just started season 3, watched most of season 5, and to me it looks great.

Granted my TV is 4k 65" vs an old 32" LG, so maybe it has more to do with tv, but I'm enjoying my rewatch.

Trying to get my wife into it, but she isn't a fan, views Quinn as a bad guy getting them involved in sliding, without solving the equation or really testing it before he took the group on the adventure.  The recast of the mom in season 2, and casting Clevants twin witch doesn't look identical to anyone but the cast is throwing her for a loop...(I was not a fan of Harry Potterrewatches, so she's dishing it back:)

Out if curiosity do you have the universal dvds or mill creek or something else?

Quinn always felt a lot of guilt about getting the others involved in sliding.  Maybe that will make your wife like him more.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

I have the original run universal dvds,  which season 3 seams to be a direct transfer from.

13 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2022-01-31 07:09:46)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Here's some pilot images to start:

(click thumbnail and then magnifying glass to see full size)

https://i.ibb.co/JdcwCv3/deleteme-9.png
https://i.ibb.co/vHBYD5S/delete-me8.png
https://i.ibb.co/H2GLbW9/delete-me7.png
https://i.ibb.co/PY8Sn12/delete-me6.png
https://i.ibb.co/fQVByhZ/delete-me5.png
https://i.ibb.co/k5QgsBJ/delete-me4.png
https://i.ibb.co/NsdhkcF/delete-me3.png
https://i.ibb.co/P4cfZG8/delete-me2.png
https://i.ibb.co/J2LwjSZ/delete-me1.png

14 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2022-01-31 07:20:22)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Summer of Love:

https://i.ibb.co/FqsWj6T/delete-me13.png
https://i.ibb.co/HBXMNxM/delete-me12.png
https://i.ibb.co/8DzBk2M/delete-me11.png
https://i.ibb.co/YdjrZdG/delete-me10.png
https://i.ibb.co/Wzzkhw5/delete-me14.png

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

El Cid

https://i.ibb.co/sbmmntX/delete-me24.png
https://i.ibb.co/XbJhVzg/delete-Me23.png
https://i.ibb.co/xLHGhjC/delete-me22.png
https://i.ibb.co/LS5qF62/deleteme-21.png
https://i.ibb.co/XW3mLmC/delete-me20.png
https://i.ibb.co/KNPf2Ss/deleteme-19.png
https://i.ibb.co/BN20GLs/delete-me-18.png
https://i.ibb.co/2SV56dN/deleteme-17.png
https://i.ibb.co/zQDcZFk/delete-me16.png
https://i.ibb.co/9TPwZ76/deleteme-15.png

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Season 3,  The Dream Masters

https://i.ibb.co/jGYXb0Y/delete-me30.png
https://i.ibb.co/7CK13TC/delete-me29.png
https://i.ibb.co/f4208sM/delete-me28.png
https://i.ibb.co/nBtXPf9/delete-me27.png
https://i.ibb.co/Y7DPmDv/delete-me26.png
https://i.ibb.co/020Xpxv/delete-me25.png

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

Thanks, RussianCabbie!

These look like the Mill Creek files to me but run through h.264 compression (for streaming) at a low bitrate for SD content. This reduces data layers of noise/grain to make the file smaller.

The Pilot and "El Sid" are, on Universal DVD, two of the *better* presented SLIDERS episodes. The Pilot's 35mm film origins came through clearly and it looks like it was edited on film. "El Sid," while lacking the same fine detail as the Pilot, has good levels of edge contrast thanks to being edited on the industry standard of digital videotape. I have actually never seen "The Dream Masters," but Season 3 looked sharp on Universal DVD. On Peacock, all three look blurry and smeared.

As a result, details like Quinn's flannel shirt and Arturo's beard have become a blur.

It looks to me like Peacock used the Mill Creek files. But where the DVDs use MPEG2 compression (which creates the compression noise artifacts on the Mill Creek discs), streaming services put SD TV shows through h.264 compression at a low bitrate. h.264 compression doesn't generate noise artifacts; it blurs noise and grain for smaller file sizes. You get this if you stream Netflix in low quality and it looks like Peacock did this with SLIDERS as it's an SD show.

"Summer of Love" seems to have been subjected to the same h.264-type compression, but because the original video master started and finished as a blurry mess, the compression has proven irrelevant; there wasn't much to further smooth and smear in the compression.

18 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2022-02-01 10:45:47)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

ireactions wrote:

Thanks, RussianCabbie!

These look like the Mill Creek files to me but run through h.264 compression (for streaming) at a low bitrate for SD content. This reduces data layers of noise/grain to make the file smaller.

The Pilot and "El Sid" are, on Universal DVD, two of the *better* presented SLIDERS episodes. The Pilot's 35mm film origins came through clearly and it looks like it was edited on film. "El Sid," while lacking the same fine detail as the Pilot, has good levels of edge contrast thanks to being edited on the industry standard of digital videotape. I have actually never seen "The Dream Masters," but Season 3 looked sharp on Universal DVD. On Peacock, all three look blurry and smeared.

As a result, details like Quinn's flannel shirt and Arturo's beard have become a blur.

It looks to me like Peacock used the Mill Creek files. But where the DVDs use MPEG2 compression (which creates the compression noise artifacts on the Mill Creek discs), streaming services put SD TV shows through h.264 compression at a low bitrate. h.264 compression doesn't generate noise artifacts; it blurs noise and grain for smaller file sizes. You get this if you stream Netflix in low quality and it looks like Peacock did this with SLIDERS as it's an SD show.

"Summer of Love" seems to have been subjected to the same h.264-type compression, but because the original video master started and finished as a blurry mess, the compression has proven irrelevant; there wasn't much to further smooth and smear in the compression.

It's incredible you haven't seen Dream Masters but I'm guessing it's premise is particularly creepy to you and it's best not watched.

In terms of what files they used, do you really think they used the "Mill Creek" files.  My guess had been they had one set of digital files that they send to all partners (though I suppose there actually may be a few, which can happen over 20 years).  I always assumed though there was one files and then the partners either heavily compressed it or did not.  The per-purchase vod files on amazon, verizon cable is awful for instance.  But I just assumed that was how the partner who received the files handled things, not because they got a crappy version of the file from universal.

If universal does have different types of files and they gave Peacock crap ones that's not excusable.  Unless Peacock wanted small size files to save on bandwidth costs but I doubt they would have made that request. 

It's possible that universal just has different versions of the files and the people who work there have no clue that they have different files with better or lower qualty and they just  send off the ones that are most convenient.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

I don't know how Peacock got where they did, but the screencaps you're showing look like compressed MPEG-2 that's been re-encoded as compressed h.264.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

ireactions wrote:

I don't know how Peacock got where they did, but the screencaps you're showing look like compressed MPEG-2 that's been re-encoded as compressed h.264.

they probably have specs they do on all their content and maybe for some content compressed h.264 holds up better visually. 

i am not sure if there is some alternative they could use for sliders but the flip side is they might find the files are too large or they don't accomodate people with slower internet.

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

One question would be: who produced the Mill Creek DVD files? Obviously, Mill Creek set up the disc images, but who compressed them to the point of fitting 7 - 8 episodes onto one disc? Did Universal deliver their original DVD files for Mill Creek to compress? Or did Universal's home video department receive the file size limits and hand them over? And could Peacock have simply been given the most recent versions which were then run through the standard process for SD h.264 streaming?

22 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2022-02-03 23:10:14)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

ireactions wrote:

One question would be: who produced the Mill Creek DVD files? Obviously, Mill Creek set up the disc images, but who compressed them to the point of fitting 7 - 8 episodes onto one disc? Did Universal deliver their original DVD files for Mill Creek to compress? Or did Universal's home video department receive the file size limits and hand them over? And could Peacock have simply been given the most recent versions which were then run through the standard process for SD h.264 streaming?

My strong belief is universal gave mill creek the digital files in the largest size they had them and mill creek made the decision to compress to get them to fit on a certain number of discs.

Mill Creek was dealing with the non high end, much more causal fan (this was the third release of the dvds) and at a lower price point, saving 25 cents, 50 cents, 75 cents, a dollar on discs helps preserve their limited profit margin ( which may have been something like 4/5 bucks per unit).

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

I wonder if Mill Creek were obligated to hand over to Universal whatever DVD files they produced for ownership purposes. I wonder if Peacock took whatever was most recent in Universal's digital archives for streaming, unaware or uncaring as to whether or not the most recent was what was best.

(This is not an invitation for you to send me phone numbers and email addresses and map coordinates to contact NBCUniversal's home video department. I swear to God, if you do that again, I will jump into an interdimensional vortex with Henry and Ryan and disappear forever.)

24 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2022-02-05 16:17:21)

Re: Sliders on peacock streaming app

ireactions wrote:

I wonder if Mill Creek were obligated to hand over to Universal whatever DVD files they produced for ownership purposes. I wonder if Peacock took whatever was most recent in Universal's digital archives for streaming, unaware or uncaring as to whether or not the most recent was what was best.

(This is not an invitation for you to send me phone numbers and email addresses and map coordinates to contact NBCUniversal's home video department. I swear to God, if you do that again, I will jump into an interdimensional vortex with Henry and Ryan and disappear forever.)

lol

I think it's also unlikely mill creek sent universal the files after mill creek compressing them.  One other possibility *might* be mill creek spelled out the specs they wanted the content in, and then universal used those when the peacock deal came around but I wouldn't call it more likely than them doing the compression themselves..