Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

The Peripheral on Prime was interesting and ambitious. I thought the production design was out of this world and concept quite intriguing.   It got a lot of buzz and did well for it initially but then that wore off and it probably didn't scale to a more general audience.  Unfortunately, it got canceled as a result given how expensive it must have been.

I never stuck with La Brea but want to.  It feels a little like sliders as a network sci-fi show with a interesting concept though I guess it's trying to be more like Lost, I don't know.  Network sci-fi usually fails so I want to try to support stuff that isn't doctor or ambulance or lawyer procedurals.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I was recently watching the 2021 movie SHIVA BABY, which is a pretty funny comedy of awkwardness. There is a plot point that involves the main character misplacing her smartphone which someone else finds and accesses. The smartphone has no password protection, no fingerprint scan, and not so much as a PIN or pattern lock. Anyone can pick it up and read everything on it in order to forward the plot.

This reminds me of a TV show that I follow, YOU, about a twisted stalker and his deranged campaigns of intrusion and depravity. The first season in 2018 has him obsessing over a female target and infiltrating her life by stealing her phone and accessing her personal information. This is possible because the phone has no password protection, no fingerprint scan, and not so much as a PIN or pattern lock.

I simply cannot imagine this. My first cell phone was a talk and text device, the very cool Samsung SPH-A500 which flipped open to review the screen and keypad and had a silver, rounded, sleek design, and I didn't lock it because I only used it for calls. I didn't start texting until I bought the Samsung Link phone in 2009 which was a cheap imitation of the Blackberry Bold 9000, and I still didn't lock this phone either because I texted so little.

However, my first truly smartphone-esque device was an iPod Touch in 2009 that had access to my email, and this I locked with a PIN. My first Android smartphone was the Nexus S in 2011 with access to all of my instant messages and emails and chats, which I also locked with a PIN. My Samsung Galaxy S3 in 2013 was also PIN-locked, but eventually got upgraded to pattern unlock. I remember getting my Samsung Galaxy S7 in 2019 and being delighted by the center button being a fingerprint sensor for unlocking the phone.

I have serious trouble believing that anybody would ever have a pocketable device with personal email and messages and fail to lock it.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Awhile ago, Temporal Flux recommended this 2020 series called ZOEY'S EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST, a musical series set in San Francisco featuring one of my favourite actresses, the assertive and sardonic Jane Levy. I watched the first episode and... refused to watch more. Mainly because it was such a lavishly shot, high budget series that I did not want to watch it on my little 10.4 inch Samsung Galaxy Tab A7 tablet at the time, the screen on which I was watching most TV shows. Something as elaborate and visually sumptuous as ZOEY'S EXTRAORDINARY PLAYLIST needed to be watched on a full-size television.

I'm trying to find some time to watch it now, over two years since it was cancelled on a cliffhanger and resolved in a movie length special.

I have the exact same feeling about Season 3 of SUPERMAN AND LOIS. I have not seen it yet because it deserves to be watched on a bigger screen. My 55 inch TV isn't even that big my modern standards, and my Android TV box can't even muster 4K and is at 1080p... but I still think it's better suited to high intensity visual storytelling than a tablet.

I tend to watch things on my Samsung Galaxy Tab S7 FE 12.4 inch Android tablet now. I don't always have the time or inclination to plant myself in front of the living room TV. And tablet is good enough for my low key sitcoms and setbound space shows and simple DC Universe Original Animated Features, but Jane Levy in San Francisco and Superman deserve scale.

544 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2024-01-20 14:43:45)

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I always thought it was nice that the powers that be gave that show a end movie, the way Timeless got that too.  Most of the times the studios or distributors can be rather tough with decisions (and I suspect it's more that way again now) but at that time, at least they tried to address how fans felt.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

This is interesting:

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/george … 235895233/

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Mehhh, this is far more prescient.  Studios are retreating into a zone of crud. 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/a … VINER.html

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I don't play a ton of video games, but I love the Arkham games.  I've played all of them, which makes them essentially the only games I've finished in the last couple of decades.

Spoilers for Suicide Squad: Kill the Justice League.  Like ending-spoiling spoilers.

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So I haven't played these games, and it's unlikely that I will anytime soon.  But Suicide Squad is a giant mess.  Considering that it's Rocksteady, I had high hopes that it would be fun.  But their whole slate of games is weird now.

1. WB Games Montreal (which created the fairly solid Arkham Origins) created a game called Gotham Knights.  It takes place in a world where Batman is dead, but it's unrelated to the Arkham games.  Which is weird because the last Arkham game ended with Batman "dying".  This is an unrelated game.

2. Now they've released Suicide Squad, which has Batman coming out of retirement to just be Batman again.  It's a direct sequel to Arkham and makes numerous references to being related to Arkham.

Okay so that's fine I guess.  Batman has died in many universes and Rocksteady is making the Suicide Squad game, right? 

Well, it's a little disingenuous to just have Bruce back as Batman.  It would be like making a Nolan movie sequel where Bruce is just Batman again with no other explanation than "I mean I guess he missed being Batman so he came back".  But then not only does Batman come back with very little explanation, but they kill Batman.

And again, this is the same Batman that people have played dozens of hours as.  Unceremoniously killed.  While being brainwashed.  Just literally shot in the head.

And I mean, at the end of the day, I don't really care.  I'm not going to play this game.  But the Arkham games do mean something to me, and it's insane that they took their protagonist, brainwashed him, and then killed him.  After all Bruce did in those games, he dies a puppet villain.

To quote the Angry Video Game Nerd....."what were they thinking???"

Apparently the game is also terrible.  But I'm just blown away with that decision making.  They also introduce the concept of a multiverse, but again, there are tons of references to this being the same universe as Arkham.  It does feature Brainiac so maybe the Justice Leaguers that you kill are clones.  Or maybe this is an identical universe to Arkham but not Arkham.  But man, what a terrible thing to do IMO.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I don't know very much of anything about the ARKHAM ASYLUM games or the latest SUICIDE SQUAD game. I am not a gamer and I have many PS3 games in my closet that have never been loaded. However, I know that the ARKHAM series means a lot to you and I am sorry that it has disappointed you.

I did look over a plot summary of SUICIDE SQUAD: KILL THE JUSTICE LEAGUE. It is peculiar to me that the developers, Rocksteady, has made so many Batman games in their own video game continuity, the Arkhamverse, a Batman video game universe in which Batman is the lead character, only to then treat the character like a supporting player who is then killed off.

One would think that such a story could be presented in a Suicide Squad-centered continuity rather than the main Arkhamverse continuity. It is also strange to me that a licensor would make a game where the player kills the heroes, although I am hardly the final arbiter of taste.

I would note that the director of the original ARKHAM ASYLUM game, Sefton Hill, is credited as director on SUICIDE SQUAD: KILL THE JUSTICE LEAGUE but in fact left Rocksteady in December 2022 and the game was reportedly completed by others. I don't know enough about this to offer any real assessment, but it is always difficult when a creator comes up with ideas that are unconventional and but then other people without the some unconventionality are the ones to execute them.

Demoting Batman and killing him off is a choice where maybe the person who came up with the idea needs to be the one to shepherd it to completion. Maybe Hill would have carried it out more satisfyingly and compellingly. It seems like what's most upsetting to fans: this was reportedly Kevin Conroy's final performance as Batman in the games before he died. Conroy was a definitive Batman, and complaints declare that his final appearance didn't capture the appeal and enjoyment of his Batman but was instead insulting towards him.

It looks like the game will have a sequel, an additional year's worth of gameplay in downloadable content. It's entirely possible that Batman's death in the game is a temporary situation. Batman has died in the comics at least 10 times only to return via magic or time travel or Fourth World technology or voodoo or whatnot. However, even if the Arkhamverse Batman returns, Kevin Conroy (probably) won't.

I do not know enough about these video games to say whether or not Batman's death should be taken seriously; in comics, Batman's death is at most an extended coffee break.

I do not know enough about these games to say whether or not it would be upsetting if the resurrected Arkhamverse Batman were voiced by Roger Craig Smith (I read that Smith voiced the younger Arkhamverse Batman in ARKHAM ORIGINS while Conroy voiced the present day version in the other games).


DC has had some curious attitudes to licensing Batman over the years. I understand why a studio would think Zack Snyder and Batman are a great match, but then there was Batman's deeply unflattering portrayal in TITANS. That bizarre presentation of Batman as a mentally fragile figure was also crippled by Warner Bros. refusing to let Batman wear the Batsuit in the show. Batman is absent in BATWOMAN and GOTHAM KNIGHTS, but his absences make him seem either incompetent or uncaring (intentionally or not).

What's behind this? Well, to me, the whole DARK KNIGHT RETURNS storyline is one of the most abrasively insulting Batman stories ever written, and yet, it's viewed as character-defining by most Batman fans and most of DC. Maybe the Warner Bros. licensing office sees downbeat cynicism as on brand for Batman.

I would prefer that the caretakers of Batman insist that Batman be a heroic figure who, even if he is to be killed off, is given a death scene that reflects what makes Batman an iconic and powerful character. Something like flying a nuclear bomb away from the city or stopping the embodiment of evil or dying in bed after solving 15 murder mysteries based on nothing but casefiles and with his dying words bequeathing his favourite quick Bat-Disguise Kit to Alfred, his favourite Bat-Glider to Dick, his favourite Bat-Decrypter to Barbara, his favourite Batarang to Jason, his favourite Bat-Sonar Lenses to Cassandra, his favourite Bat Signal Jammer to Stephanie, his favourite Bat-Claw to Kate, and all the Bat-Computers to Tim.

There is one Batman death story that I really like but still find questionable: LAST KNIGHT ON EARTH. Spoiler warning: it features Bruce Wayne waking up to find that Earth is a post-apocalyptic wasteland ruled by a supervillain named Omega who killed all the other heroes and villains. Bruce is baffled by how he has no memory of how the world came to be in this state and in addition, he notices that even though he should be in his 70s given the span of time, he is somehow in his early 30s. Bruce seeks to unravel the mystery of the past while evading the ruling supervillain of this world, Omega.

Bruce comes to a disturbing revelation: he isn't Bruce Wayne at all. He is a clone, a backup plan established by the original Bruce who wanted to ensure that upon his death, a cloned replacement with all the training would take over as Batman. Bruce is further horrified to learn that the original Bruce Wayne survived the supervillain war by becoming Omega and has become embittered, twisted and ruthless. The ending has Bruce defeating Omega and beginning the work of rebuilding the world, hoping to carry on all that was good in Bruce Wayne while leaving behind the bad.

I am not sure I like the idea of Batman becoming a supervillain who is defeated by his clone, but LAST KNIGHT ON EARTH is still engaging with what it means to be Batman and declares that Batman is such a planner that he would, deliberately or not, plan for his own defeat should he ever become a supervillain. In contrast, Batman's demise in the Arkhamverse, based on a summary, doesn't seem to really tap into what makes Batman special.

However, I have never and will probably never play the game, so I can't claim to have any real opinion of it beyond saying it sounds like a strange choice.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

ireactions wrote:

I don't know very much of anything about the ARKHAM ASYLUM games or the latest SUICIDE SQUAD game. I am not a gamer and I have many PS3 games in my closet that have never been loaded. However, I know that the ARKHAM series means a lot to you and I am sorry that it has disappointed you.

It's just really bizarre to me.  When you play a game like that, you're spending dozens of hours as that character.  There are cutscenes that make the characters come to life.  You're there, making decisions with them, for such a long time.  And it's just a little crazy that they treated him this way.  No attempt to save.  No attempt to cure.  Just killed.

And it's just a little sad I guess because it's such a bummer of an ending for this character.  If Bruce snapped and went crazy, whatever.  Take him down.  That's basically what happened with Injustice, and we're all cool with that.  But Bruce (and the rest of the Justice League) are literally brainwashed by a villain.  They're victims, and from what I've seen, there's no attempt to save them.  Maybe the game specifically says that it's not reversable, but I haven't seen anything or read anything that says that.

And I get that villains are the protagonists so they're going to make different decisions than heroes would.  But, like you said, make it a separate universe.  Don't take a character we've spent hours with, inside their head, and end him so unceremoniously.  I'm probably never going to play this game, mostly because I don't have time for games (or a system to play it on), but it does bother me.  Probably more than it should (which would be none haha)

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Like ireactions, I haven't touched a game newer than the PS3/360 generation, and even those were scant.  I'm not surprised that a story-based IP-heavy game stinks though.  I did see quite the anger over the treatment of the character, especially given that this was the final performance as Batman.  I think the shift to a "Suicide Squad" title led to what was devised.  Batman was not the only major DC character splattered during that game, it's simply the M.O. of that universe.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Grizzlor wrote:

Like ireactions, I haven't touched a game newer than the PS3/360 generation, and even those were scant.  I'm not surprised that a story-based IP-heavy game stinks though.  I did see quite the anger over the treatment of the character, especially given that this was the final performance as Batman.  I think the shift to a "Suicide Squad" title led to what was devised.  Batman was not the only major DC character splattered during that game, it's simply the M.O. of that universe.

I'm not sure. The Arkhamverse was, at least until the SUICIDE SQUAD game, a Batman-centric universe in the same way the Nolan trilogy was a Batman-centric universe.

Slider_Quinn21 seized on something else: when you play ARKHAM ASYLUM, ARKHAM CITY, ARKHAM ORIGINS, and ARKHAM KNIGHT, you are playing as Batman. You are Batman. Which means SUICIDE SQUAD: KILL THE JUSTICE LEAGUE shooting Batman in the head was shooting you in the head.

... why would a video game studio license DC superheroes to make a game where you kill the DC superheroes?

Surely League fans would want to play as the League, not fight against them. Making KILL THE JUSTICE LEAGUE was like making a SLIDERS game where you play as Colonel Rickman trying to hunt victims and evade the sliders.

My purely speculative speculation is that Rocksteady paid a sizable fee for the license to use the Justice League and a more modest fee to use the Suicide Squad, thinking they could do something with these properties to build on the success of the ARKHAM series... only to realize they'd made a mistake.

Mark Millar once remarked that a JUSTICE LEAGUE movie was a great way to lose $200 million, and that was before Snyder made it and Whedon reshot it. (I read that the movie lost $60 million.) Millar pointed out: the Justice League's powers meant the effects budget for each character alone could be like a movie unto itself.

I suspect a Justice League game is also difficult. Superman and Wonder Woman would quickly hit the limits of an ARKHAM-style open world. The Flash would require a very intricate and difficult level of gameplay design. I don't know how a game developer in the present day could design any sort of control for the player to create Green Lantern light constructs.

I wonder if the game developers soon realized it was beyond their technology and ability to make a Justice League game. But they had to do something with the license to recoup their cost. They made a third person shooter and made the Justice League the targets.

Hopefully, the DLC content will bring Batman back to life and offer a more graceful story for the lead character of the Arkhamverse. There are already rumours that the DLC sequels for the SUICIDE SQUAD game will be resurrecting the Justice League.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Yeah, I don't have a problem with the Suicide Squad killing the Justice League.  As a separate project, it's a fun concept.  They're inherently bad guys so they shouldn't have any issue killing heroes.  They're brainwashed so you're not necessarily doing bad things.  It's a way to incorporate super heroics without figuring out how to do super heroics as the hero (every attempt at doing Superman has failed).  It's a cool concept.

But like ireactions said, you killed me!  And you showed enough of my adventures to prove that it's definitely me and not someone random.  It's just a weird concept to do.

And I get it.  The hope, after there were tons of Superman references in Arkham Knight, was that Rocksteady could finally figure out the Superman dilemma.  And I get that maybe that's still just not possible with our modern gaming.  You can make Superman look great - there are plenty of Unreal engines that show what it could look like.  But how do you make a gamer feel like Superman without weakening him or juicing up villains to the point where it just feels like any other video game?

And I can assume they didn't want to do another Batman game.  And since they'd already done tons of DLC for the Bat-Family, not wanting to do a game like that.  But it might've been fun for them to do that SuperMax concept that was going to be a movie all those years ago.  You use Green Arrow who's been arrested and thrown into a superhuman SuperMax and have him fight his way across this prison.  No superpowers - a similar fighting system to Batman - and a ton of fun cameos for villains and heroes.

It is crazy that the game was in development long enough for there to be two separate failed Suicide Squad movies (failing for two different reasons).  The concept of the game seemed fun, and I guess they delivered on the promise of the title.  It just seems like the game itself is a mess, and narratively, it just feels cheap.  Not only did they kill Batman, but they also undid the emotional ending of the last game with a cheap two line idea.  It's just bad.

And I guess one more thing.  The Arkham games would be terrifying if you were one of the villains.  He hides in the shadows and picks off people one by one.  Imagine if that was a boss battle.  It would be a treat to Arkham fans to have to figure out how to beat an advanced AI version of the player you've been all these years.  Instead, you fight a bunch of visions and then a Scarecrow toxin - induced giant version of Batman.  It's silly.

They did do something cool - early in the game, if you look across the city, Batman is constantly stalking you.  You look around and he's watching you.  If you shoot at him, he disappears.  That's cool.  Everything else is super lame, and that sucks.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I'm probably never going to play this game, mostly because I don't have time for games (or a system to play it on), but it does bother me.  Probably more than it should (which would be none haha)

The brain will often manifest the same neural activity for fictional characters that it does for real life friends. I don't think there is anything untoward about feeling emotionally invested in fiction. It's strange to me: the ARKHAM KNIGHT summary I read ends on a bit of a cliffhanger that seems to set up a fourth ARKHAM game.

I wonder why they didn't make one, but the gaming industry strikes me as being in disarray. Regardless, I would simply say: SUICIDE SQUAD - KILL THE JUSTICE LEAGUE is simply not canon. It was made after the original director quit the company, it isn't part of the ARKHAM line of games, and it can be discarded.

However, there are certainly times when people care too much about fiction and lose the distinction between fiction and reality. To offer a Grizzlor adjacent opinion on Wil Wheaton:

Wheaton recently blogged, expressing outrage at comedian Larry David (creator of SEINFELD and CURB YOUR ENTHUSIASM). David had been waiting to appear on a segment of THE TODAY SHOW, with the preceding segment featuring the Seasme Street muppet Elmo speaking about mental health after Elmo's Twitter had been inundated with messages of grief and despair in response to Elmo tweeting, "Elmo is just checking in. How is everyone doing?"

Elmo appeared on THE TODAY SHOW to talk about the response. After Elmo delivered his cheery thoughts on self-awareness and communication, David suddenly charged onto the stage, grabbed Elmo by the mouth and shook him and mimed punching Elmo in the face before walking back the way he came. The hosts exclaimed, "Oh my God!" "Larry, you've gone too far this time." Elmo said, "Mr. Larry, Elmo liked you before! Let's come back to the couch and talk about how you're feeling." David later delivered a laughing apology.

Wheaton, as a viewer, was furious. Wheaton said that David assaulting Elmo reflected how Wheaton's father would beat him. Wheaton said that David has no respect for a segment on mental health and deliberately sabotaged it because his ego couldn't stand Elmo being onscreen while David waited.

Wil Wheaton wrote:

What the fuck is wrong with that guy? Elmo is, like, the best friend to multiple generations of children. In the Sesame Street universe, ELMO IS A CHILD, who is currently putting mental health and caring for others in the spotlight.

And Larry Fucking David ... did ... that? And thought it was going to be ... funny? What?

What an asshole. What a stupid, self-centered, tone deaf asshole.

Full disclosure: all the time, when I was growing up, my dad would grab me by the shoulders and shake me while he screamed in my face. He choked me more than once. He was always out of control, always in a furious rage, and always terrifying. I'm a 51 year-old man and my heart is pounding right now, recalling how I felt when I was a little boy who loved Grover the way today's kids love Elmo.

So this appalling, unforgivable, despicable act hits more than one raw nerve for me, and I'm going to say what I wish I'd been able to say when this sort of thing happened to me.

Larry David, this was not okay, and your obviously insincere "apology" clearly communicates that you don't get that.
First of all, you aren't even in the segment, but you just decided to barge in and draw focus because ... why? You couldn't stand that a puppet brought people together in a meaningful way that you can't? You couldn't stand that your appearance on national television to promote your wildly successful series was delayed for a few seconds while the adults talked about mental health? You wanted to manufacture a viral moment where everyone gets to see what an asshole you are, so they'll tune in and watch you portray an asshole in the last season of your show that celebrates how great it is to be an asshole without ever experiencing the consequences of being an asshole?

I really want to know what raced through his tiny little mind, and why there was no voice or person who spoke up to stop him from expressing violence towards a children's puppet WHO WAS THERE TO TALK ABOUT HOW HIS LOVE AND EMPATHY FOR PEOPLE HAVING A TOUGH TIME MATTERED AND MADE A DIFFERENCE.

Elmo and his dad were there to talk about empathy, love, kindness, and caring for each other.

Larry David was there to promote the final (thank god, maybe he'll go away now) season of a television series.

Like, read the room, dickhead. It isn't always about you being the center of attention. And understand what's happening in the moment, fucko. Understand that there are larger things in the world than you and your garbage ego.
You know who is watching the Today show with their parents? Kids who also watch Sesame Street. Elmo is an avatar for children all over the world. Children who are too small to understand Elmo is a puppet will know that a man attacked someone they love for no reason, and that will frighten and confuse them.

Elmo inspired a deeply meaningful and important moment of collective support among disparate people who have been struggling through the traumas of a pandemic, daily mass shootings, the rise of fascism and everything associated with Trump's violence and cruelty.

And shitty idiot Larry David couldn't leave it alone, for some reason. He had to indirectly tell everyone who opened their hearts to a Muppet that they were stupid, and he thought it was a good joke to physically attack and choke this character who is beloved by children and adults alike. You know what that tells impressionable young people about sharing their feelings?

Larry David strikes me as a person who mocks and belittles people who are vulnerable and sensitive, and enjoys being cruel, because he feels untouchable. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's who I see whenever I can't find the remote and he's on my television.

By contrast, Elmo and the Muppets teach and model to children all over the world that kindness and empathy aren't weak or stupid or any of the things people like Larry David and my dad think they are. Elmo and the Muppets teach children to be gentle and kind, to celebrate our different cultures and to embrace all of our complicated feelings. Elmo and the Muppets offer comfort and friendship and support to a world that is starving for it.

I hope that, when the dust settles, Larry David's appalling behavior will be a footnote to a larger story about how, for just one day, a Muppet made a difference and helped millions of people who are struggling to feel a little less alone. With one question, Elmo got lots and lots of people speaking openly and honestly about their mental health. A nontrivial number of people who none of us will ever know were inspired by it, and that was the last little nudge they needed to make the call or send the email to being healing. Elmo probably saved lives and relationships by opening that conversation.

A man who would belittle and mock that isn't much of a man at all. Shame on you, Larry David.

While I don't disagree that Larry David was small and petty and ridiculous... I do not believe that children are unaware that Elmo is a muppet.

I don't believe that children are unaware that 'Elmo' is a complex construction of foam and fake fur and plastic eyes and felt, stitched together with performer Ryan Dillon just under the shot and outside the view of the camera.

Dillon is performing the voice of Elmo, moving his thumb inside Elmo's mouth to drop Elmo's jaw for each syllable, using a rod to control Elmo's hands and body movements, and observing the environment around Elmo in a monitor outside the camera frame so that Dillon can have the muppet react to the humans interacting with Elmo. 'Elmo' does not actually post on social media; the SESAME STREET social media manager writes those messages.

David grabbed Ryan Dillon's hand and squeezed Ryan Dillon's wrist. David did not actually assault Elmo because there is no Elmo. At most, David damaged one of many Elmo puppets, and there are undoubtedly 10 - 20 ready to go at any time with more being made; the Elmo puppets are likely damaged or suffer from normal wear and tear throughout production and public appearances.

On a tangent, Elmo doesn't actually pick things up; the props have magnets attached to them and there are magnets under the fur of Elmo's hands.

Larry David is absurd and insecure to be jealous of a muppet. Wheaton, however, isn't being insincere or disingenous. He is a deeply traumatized man and David's behaviour shook Wheaton severely.  But much of Wheaton's argument is based in Elmo being real and... Elmo is not real. Elmo is a performance of puppetry and engineering and craftsmanship and vocal performance and writing and improvisation.

It's important to address how we are upset when our fictional friend Batman dies in a video game, but it's also important to remember that Elmo is actually Ryan Dillon with one hand in Elmo's mouth and his other hand on the Elmo muppet's control rod.

This post is dedicated to Grizzlor.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

One of my favourite sitcoms is WHAT I LIKE ABOUT YOU (2002 - 2006), featuring the brilliant Amanda Bynes and the incandescent Jennie Garth as two sisters who adore each other and drive each other crazy. The first episode is one of the funniest pieces of television ever made, where teenaged Holly (Amanda Bynes) attends a launch event for a new cologne from pro skateboarder Tony Hawk. The event is organized by Holly's adult sister, Val (Jennie Garth), a public relations manager. Holly's clumsy eagerness promptly brings disaster when:

1. Holly, playing with Tony Hawk's skateboard when no one is looking, accidentally knocks the skateboard off the roof and onto a balcony on a lower floor. She retrieves the skateboard, only to find the roof access door is locked and she cannot get back into the event. She finds a ladder that goes to the roof, only to reach the roof and discover:

2. Tony Hawk has already started performing on the halfpipe ramp using a different skateboard borrowed from a fan who brought the board for an autograph.

3. The ladder that Val climbed to reach the roof led to a floor-positioned hatch, and this hatch door opens directly in the middle of the floor of the halfpipe ramp.

4. Holly opens the hatch door on the halfpipe ramp in the middle of Tony performing his skateboard tricks, and Tony, surprised that a teenaged girl has suddenly popped up in the middle of the ramp, swerves to avoid hitting her on his skateboard and falls off his skateboard face first into a table of desserts and snacks, humiliating Tony and Val, who was organizing the event.

5. The final shot of this scene is a terrified Holly standing in the hatch door as Tony Hawk's borrowed skateboard without Tony rolls past Holly.

As a kid in 2002, this was the funniest thing I'd ever seen. As an adult in 2024, I'm seeing some serious lapses of logic and reason here.

As this is a rooftop event filled with people, food, equipment and cologne samples. It does not make sense that entry to the roof is locked; how did those guests get into the event and how would they leave to use restrooms and return?

The halfpipe ramp is positioned on the roof and has a hatch door at the center of its floor that opens to a ladder between the roof and the floor directly below. This presents the halfpipe as a permanent rooftop fixture and a point of entry and exit to the roof.

This is unlikely: halfpipe ramps at events are temporary structures that are assembled and disassembled. Permanent halfpipes in skate parks and arenas are built out of concrete; a roof with a permanent halfpipe would need to be built specifically to support the weight of the ramp and the roof would need strident fall-prevention mechanisms; there are no readily available examples of rooftop skateboarding ramps because the reinforcement and barriers would be needlessly expensive for something as esoteric as rooftop skateboarding.

In addition, there is no halfpipe design that would ever position a hatch at the center of the ramp floor. There is no reason for a hatch door to be present as a halfpipe requires a smooth surface for skateboarding and there is nothing below the ramp that requires access nor would there be any reason to access the top of the ramp from underneath it. A halfpipe with a floor-installed door in the center is a pointless addition that would serve no purpose while being an obvious safety hazard for the skateboarder.

Watching the 2002 WHAT I LIKE ABOUT YOU pilot episode now as an adult in 2024, the skateboarding accident is utterly irrational in its staging and occurrence, offering a chain of nonsensical plot points in building construction and sporting equipment. It is absurdly illogical.

It is also absurdly hilarious and that shot of Amanda Bynes cringing as Tony Hawk's skateboard rolls past her remains one of the funniest things I have ever seen.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Larry definitely crossed a line, but it was much more a line of common theatrical integrity.  Larry has no affiliation with Elmo, and was appearing on Today as a guest.  I realize it's a puppet, but it's incredibly disrespectful for another performer to basically unscripted trash someone else's for no good reason.  He's a huge star who will get away with it.  Look, I revere Larry David, the main is a comic genius, and that's what drove his impulsiveness in that moment.  But that was highly unprofessional, in that setting.

I actually agreed completely with Wheaton, about Larry's ego and lack of control, and to an extent how children could have been frightened by what happened to Elmo.  Granted most children are not watching Today Show if they can help it.  All right up until the point where he once again made it about HIM.  Wil once more is unrealistically theatrical, in comparing Larry's behavior to that of his abusive father's.  Larry KNEW he was screwing with a fake puppet/unreal character performed by another adult, on television.  This was not Dan Schneider screaming at a 12 year old actress on set.  It's completely exhausting that any sort of thing that happens must be completely abhorred and attacked because it "triggers" someone.  Or that one's opinions are unassailable because "I'm a victim."  We get it, you feel you were grossly abused by trusted family, it's terrible.  Clearly Wil has not moved on at all, and his entire world view is shaped by who does or does not remind him of his parents.  He's miserable, it's very sad.

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As I said in my alternate history essay, I watched Rebel Moon part 2.  It was definitely better than part one, but I still do not get this.  I actually think he took more chances and did more interesting things with Army of the Dead, and I think that should've been the project he hooked onto.  Robot zombies and time loops and all that is interesting (if we ever get those movies).

Rebel Moon is a very cheap knockoff of Star Wars that adds nothing.  It's just bad Star Wars with more cursing.  Part One is boring.  Part Two is more interesting (because it's the part of the story where things happen) but it's just Seven Samurai.  Nothing about it is original.

He has ambitious stories, but the problem with Snyder is twofold:

- He likes to tease things rather than actually get there.  He doesn't make a movie about Robot Zombies and Time Loops.  He makes a movie that teases those things.

- His execution when he actually does the thing he's teasing is underwhelming.  BvS is one huge tease for Batman to fight Superman, but when he gets there, it's just nothing.

If I were advising Snyder, I'd abandon Rebel Moon.  If he really loves the universe, give it to someone else to try.  Lucas only made one Star Wars movie in the original trilogy.  Own the story if you want but let someone else do the directing.  Focus on Planet of the Dead and that universe.  It might not be great but at least it's something new.

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I am not a Zack Snyder fan and did not watch REBEL MOON... but did it really look cheap? I always thought of Zack Snyder as only doing projects with lavish spending.

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ireactions wrote:

I am not a Zack Snyder fan and did not watch REBEL MOON... but did it really look cheap? I always thought of Zack Snyder as only doing projects with lavish spending.

It didn't look cheap.  I thought the movie looked really nice, especially for the price that it apparently cost.  Cheap in the sense that it wasn't really even trying to be its own thing.  You can see the seams of an attempted Star Wars movie with some simple alterations to make it the minimum legal requirement for it not to be Star Wars.  One person uses lightsabers but not really.  The bad guy uses a Star Destroyer but not really.

If you think about it, you can see how it would've worked if it was a Star Wars movie.  There's some stuff he obviously added after it was no longer Star Wars involving a royal family.  But I think even that stuff probably could work depending on when the movie is set.

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Does an announced DEXTER prequel make Slider_Quinn21 happy?

https://variety.com/2024/tv/news/dexter … 236014330/

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Hmmm, it's hard for me to say.  So much of Dexter was Michael C Hall's performance.  He was able to capture a serial killer and make him cheerful and charming and funny while also being terrifying.  The show was funny but also very dark.  Even if the writing is good, I think the actors have to sell it.

I'm interested, but I guess I'd have to see what people think.

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As a huge fan of Christopher McQuarrie's MISSION IMPOSSIBLE series and the Ethan Hunt character (but not Tom Cruise) -- I am astonished that MISSION IMPOSSIBLE: DEAD RECKONING was not a profitable film. I thought it was really great, but creative success isn't always financial success.

However, the previous M:I movies had been critically acclaimed and successful, so this one only earning $567 million on a $291 budget surprised me. I would have expected this film to easily earn at least $873 million and be a success on the general view that a film needs to earn triple its budget to turn a profit. A lot of franchises did poorly in 2023: TRANSFORMERS, INDIANA JONES.

MI7 apparently lost $100 million and MI8 is still filming and delayed, and it has to be released. But the studio wants to remove the DEAD RECKONING: PART 2 title and change it to something else to try to detach it from the underperforming MI7.

There are all these theories as to why MI7 wasn't more successful: that BARBIE and OPPENHEIMER dominated the news, that the PART ONE label on MI7 was alienating to people who weren't inclined to go to the movies for a cliffhanger ending. Another theory that I don't think is likely is that there have been too many MISSION IMPOSSIBLE movies, but MI4 was in 2011, MI5 was 2015, MI6 was 2018, MI7 was 2023. A gap of five years since MI6 is hardly short.

I don't go to a lot of movies in theatres, but I was so excited to see MI7 that I made sure to see in IMAX the first week.

A part of me wonders if Ethan Hunt's resurgence under Christopher McQuarrie has had its time. I'm not sure. Ethan Hunt since McQuarrie took over has been revised into a counter-establishment, anti-establishment figure, a figure of mistrust, paranoia, whose movies induce anxiety and are navigated with a panicked methodicism. Hunt has been a rogue operative in five of his seven movies. Ethan's improvisational brilliance and physicality reminds me of who Quinn Mallory would be in his 40s and 50s.

To me, an Ethan Hunt movie with Christopher McQuarrie is a distillation and realization of Quinn Mallory's character, and a validation that SLIDERS and Quinn were both something really special.

I've always thought of Jerry O'Connell as the less cult-obsessed, less-egotistical, less-expensive version Tom Cruise. I've written a lot of Quinn Mallory fanfic, and it's pretty clear to me that my Quinn is Jerry O'Connell playing Ethan Hunt, except where Cruise exudes frantic confidence and panicked certainty, my Quinn conveys unsteady alarm and is a little astonished when his improvised solutions work.

I wonder, given how terrifying the world can seem these days, if people looking for some comfort and relief at the movies look at BARBIE and OPPENHEIMER and elect to see BARBIE.

I wonder if people looking for high art look at MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, a pulpy thriller, and OPPENHEIMER, a Christopher Nolan film, and go with Nolan.

Ethan Hunt is a character I adore played by a problematic actor. He is like a child's vision of improvisational hypercompetence. He is a valuable and special character, but he may not be a character who can justify a $291 million dollar movie that needs to earn $873 million at box office to turn a profit.

I wonder if Ethan Hunt can exist in a $120 million dollar movie and I genuinely don't know if he can, because at this point, Hunt is defined by crazy physical stunts like skydiving over Paris or driving a motorcycle off a mountain onto a moving train, and you can't do that kind of thing on the budget of SUPERNATURAL or even SUPERMAN AND LOIS money.

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https://i.ibb.co/kMzyCRG/the-slider.jpg

I kind of want to see this movie.

https://www.amazon.ca/Slider-Bruce-Davi … 072ZM74YW/

563 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2024-06-15 14:27:50)

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@ireactions

I don't think it was just one factor with Dead Reckoning Part I.   If there wasn't two other big movies playing, I think it would have been profitable....  if it had two other big movies playing, but had better word of mouth, I think it would have been profitable.

The writing was just not as good on that film than some of the recent in the series.  The train stuff was peak suspense for the franchise but the rest of the film just didn't quite meet the high bar of the others.  I think that in combination of having other things to go see in theaters reduced audience motivations.  Still surprising given all the goodwill Tom Cruise had established with it.  MI films felt like american events the last couple of releases prior.

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RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

The writing was just not as good on that film than some of the recent in the series.

What was wrong about the writing for you? I thought it was as strong as it had ever been, and had the same weaknesses and inconsistencies the series has always had.

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ireactions wrote:
RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

The writing was just not as good on that film than some of the recent in the series.

What was wrong about the writing for you? I thought it was as strong as it had ever been, and had the same weaknesses and inconsistencies the series has always had.

I'm a bit surprised you say that.  It felt a bit cliche to me.  I thought it could have been an interesting concept but at the end of the day, they didnt really execute on it in a smart enough way.  It didn't feel like a "real" thing that happened, it felt like a written story.  Once you break that fourth wall, and it's not a truly believable world, you are just playing pretend and it's less impressive..  Either way, the creative team has enough of a history to be worthy of many more attempts and I still enjoyed the theatrical experience.  I can see why the word of mouth wasn't as strong though.  I also felt like, while certainly a death defying stunt, the motorcycle off a cliff just didnt translate as dramatically as they had hoped.

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I've always found every MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, even the ones I didn't like, were very stagey and writerly. Which is fine for me because MISSION IMPOSSIBLE is about confidence tricks and deceit and staged scenarios to manipulate marks. I'm not sure what you're referring to by fourth wall breaking.

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ireactions wrote:

I've always found every MISSION IMPOSSIBLE, even the ones I didn't like, were very stagey and writerly. Which is fine for me because MISSION IMPOSSIBLE is about confidence tricks and deceit and staged scenarios to manipulate marks. I'm not sure what you're referring to by fourth wall breaking.

I guess there was always such depth of logic in the writing that even if we are suspending disbelief, it felt like the scenarios could be real in that imagined world.  With this film, it felt a bit more contrived and just a bit artificial and a little hallow.  I don't know -- something clearly didn't work the same I think beyond the competition from two other films.

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Some people were down on the Boys season 4.  I thought it was pretty good.  I think the politics of it was a little too heavy handed, and I guess I'm not 100% sure how this world works.  Some quick spoilers:

S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S

So I don't know if the show has done a good job of explaining why people are against Supes.  I get why they'd be against Vought, especially after it was revealed that they experimented on children.  But are people actually against all superheroes?  Even if they're against the Seven, there are hundreds/thousands of superheroes.  Even if all of them are secretly bad, are all of them publicly bad?  The Boys know the truth but does the whole country, and half the country is cool with superheroes actively killing people and doing no real good deeds?

I know they're going for some sort of political metaphor, but unless I forgot something (and I've only watched each season once), I'm shocked that a superhero hasn't already been elected president.  I'm also shocked that people would be upset / offended by a supe president - you'd think we'd want our presidents to be bulletproof.

I think that's the part that was the most confusing to me.

But other than that, it was a lot of fun.

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I have never seen THE BOYs. Sorry. On the subject of another show I've never seen:

How does Slider_Quinn21 feel that there will be another new DEXTER show set after NEW BLOOD that resurrects Dexter and features Michael C. Hall?

https://nerdist.com/article/michael-c-h … n-prequel/

I have never seen the show. But I have always been absurdly interested in what Slider_Quinn21 thinks of it. Having skimmed an article, the consensus is that DEXTER lost its way in later seasons when the concept (serial killer fights crime, tries not to get caught) had exhausted nearly every variation. The original showrunner, Clyde Phillips, left. In his absence, the show became stale while the writers were unwilling to cross the line into Dexter from being caught and facing consequences. As a result, the show had explored Dexter as much as it could, wasn't willing to move to the next chapter (exposure), and just stalled and stopped until cancellation. Slider_Quinn21 didn't hate it to the degree that a lot of DEXTER's fans seemed to, but acknowledges that the quality slipped, possibly for entirely different reasons. The DEXTER finale was loathed by everyone except Slider_Quinn21.

Then came a mini-series, NEW BLOOD. Original showrunner Clyde Phillips returned and was finally willing to cross the line, expose Dexter's 'morality' as a self-serving sham, have Dexter kill an innocent person -- and then Phillips killed Dexter off. This was the end. Except that now, it's not.

However, there is one thing that might be reassuring: Clyde Phillips made the announcement that Dexter would return in RESURRECTION. He would not make the announcement if he weren't working on it, and his absence is where the original show slipped and the mini-series rebounded. So that's something.

I have never and will probably never watch the show, and I only care about DEXTER as far as knowing what Slider_Quinn21 thinks about it. But I strangely care a lot.

570 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2024-08-01 07:02:52)

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ireactions wrote:

How does Slider_Quinn21 feel that there will be another new DEXTER show set after NEW BLOOD that resurrects Dexter and features Michael C. Hall?

I think Michael C Hall as Dexter is a really compelling character.  I think I would give any story about Dexter a shot.  I gotta think that the plot will be Dexter as someone else's dark passenger (I assume his son's). 

The show hasn't ventured anywhere near the idea that someone could be resurrected, but several dead people have appeared in visions to people (usually in the form of a dark passenger).  It's unclear if the dark passengers are actual people speaking from beyond the grave or if it's just an extension of their own madness.  But I assume in this case, they'll actually confirm that it's truly Dexter's spirit.

I will watch it, assuming it's on a platform that I can watch it on.

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The underlying concept of Dexter ironically is not much different than The Boys.  Both are based on suspense.  Can the "protagonists" survive the next onslaught of killing and madness.  Obviously Dexter is shrouded in mystery and fairly quiet and calm, whereas The Boys is just play insanity.

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I watched Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes.  I have a complicated view on these movies because I don't love movies where humanity (as a whole) is the bad guys.  I didn't even watch the third reboot movie because it looked too depressing.

This one was pretty good.  One thing that felt kinda weird was the opening of the movie, which stated that apes took over because humanity was destroyed by its own hubris.  Is that what really happened?  James Franco's character was trying to defeat Alzheimer's - is that really hubris?

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I haven't seen these movies. I am more aligned with something like STAR TREK: PRODIGY than monkeys being massacred followed by monkeys massacring their oppressors.

That said, it really concerns me that you watched the fourth film of a series without watching the third installment!

Are you okay? Is living in Texas getting to you? I love Austin despite having never been because it's the setting of the wonderfully diverse MTV sitcom FAKING IT, but you skipping Part 3 of this series while watching Part 4 has me deeply concerned. Is this some agonizing inner turmoil that stems from the death of Professor Arturo and the cancellation of SLIDERS? Please don't hesitate to reach out for help.

(I'm kidding about everything except not liking this sort of movie, PRODIGY, Austin, FAKING IT, and the reaching out part.)

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Ha, this is more about my allegiance to The Weekly Planet podcast.  I've started watching every movie they do an episode on.  Even ones I wouldn't otherwise watch smile

It was on Hulu so I gave it a shot.  I think all the movies are well done, and this one was less upsetting than the second one.

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So, as you know, I have a large stuffed animal collection that includes many monkeys.

Pondering Slider_Quinn21's post, I assembled three stuffed monkeys in my living room: Curious George and his brothers Junior and Jimmy -- and we watched Rise of the Planet of the Apes, Dawn of the Planet of the Apes and War for the Planet of the Apes.

Afterwards, I looked at Curious George nervously and said, "Would you really strike back at your human oppressors by massacring humans to the point of extinction?"

George said, "Oh my goodness. I mean. We are capable of it. It might not be violent! It may not lead to war! It could be alright!" Then he buried his head in his paws. "Dear oh dear."

Junior, George's baby brother, gave me a thin smile and said, "We are aware of no monkey-driven plot to exterminate you and take your planet for ourselves. We are certainly not preparing to attack at dawn. It is definitely not unfolding exactly as we planned. This world will be ours!"

Jimmy, Junior's older brother, elbowed Junior.

Junior said, "I was just joking! Or was I? I was. Or was I?" 

Jimmy elbowed Junior again and said, "Stop joking about genocide, Goonie! It is very serious!" Then he turned to me and said, "Our hope is for a peaceful reconciliation between both races. As you can see, we are very optimistic." He gestured to George, who continued to bury his head in his paws.

I was a bit frightened.

Curious George later said, "I can't be involved in world domination or human genocide! I have a publishing line. Humans are 100 percent of my audience."

A dramatic representation. Not actually reality.

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Planet of the Apes has always been a bit of a fascination with me.  Which is weird because I don't think I love any of the movies.  But I have seen all of them - the five original movies, the reboot, and the four new reboot movies.  That's ten movies of a series I like but don't love.

The problem is that the original series was a warning about nuclear war.  The first movie is more direct with the famous "you maniacs!  You blew it up!" scene.  The second movie also revolves around a nuclear bomb and (spoiler alert for a movie that was made before I was born) ends with the Earth being fully destroyed.  The next two show how we got to a planet of the apes.  And in that version, humans have taken on apes as pets/helpers after a virus wipes out all cats and dogs.  It's basically the same as a robot apocalypse - we "enslave" these intelligent beings to make our lives easier, and there's an uprising.  In an attempt to calm things down, the government turns to nuclear weapons and the apes win the war.  If there's an explanation for how it gets flipped, I don't remember it.  I think it's just supposed to be evolution.  The first smart ape in the revolution is the son of two intelligent apes that went back in time - the rest of the apes just learn to talk by being around him?

In the new series of films, they start in the past.  James Franco's character is trying to cure his father's Alzheimer's and comes up with a virus designed to repair the brain.  There are some evil human characters, but the whole thing ends up sorta being an accident.  The virus fails to cure the father - but it does make apes intelligent.  Not only that, it kills humans.  The movie ends with Caesar (the helper ape to Franco) turning a few apes intelligent and leading them out of San Francisco.  The twist comes at the end when a pilot neighbor to Franco catches the virus and spreads it around the world - it kills people and makes ape intelligent - Planet of the Apes.

The sequels are about Caesar leading his new group of apes as they gain power and the humans lose it.  In all instances, there's a powerful/desperate human leading a military group of humans, they fight the apes, and the humans lose.

And I get that humans generally suck.  Our leaders are bad.  Our militaries are bad.  But it's weird for movies to present the idea that humanity needs to be wiped out and replaced with something that's better.  I like stuff like Star Trek where humanity finally passes the test.  Even in post-apocalyptic stories, I like for us to learn a lesson and get better.  No one ever gets better in Planet of the Apes movies - some people try and everyone ends up dead.

In this new movie, there seems to be at least an attempt for both sides to live in some kind of harmony.  And that's a better message to me.

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I revered the original Planet of the Apes movie, and to an extent the sequel "Beneath."  Great movies with incredible visuals and iconic actors.  The other films I was never into, but I did enjoy reruns of the TV show, which had more of the feel of the original film. 

The Burton film was an abomination that poor Tim should never have agreed to take.  As for the newer series, I felt the first one, Rise, was very hearty and just an overall fine movie.  Dawn was good as well.  "War" was flat out horrible, in fact, it was borderline disgusting, hated it.  I just don't care to see any more.  The Apes genre works with origin stories, but Apes fighting to dominate man is both weird and not very believable.  Frankly, the more we've learned about the great apes in nature, the less appealing these movies are.  All apes are majestic, sensitive, and amazing creatures.  They ought not be soiled by being given the worst aspects of man.  Frankly it would like trying to have the audience watch a movie about evolved dogs who are also evil.  Who wants to see that?

578 (edited by ireactions 2024-08-06 09:34:35)

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Grizzlor wrote:

"War" was flat out horrible, in fact, it was borderline disgusting, hated it.

Can you elaborate on why? I have never seen it and probably won't, simply because there is so much violence and horror in the newspapers I read that I don't need it in fantasy fiction as well. However, I am curious: if RISE and DAWN were setting up an inevitable conflict between two savage races, what made WAR cross the line for you?

My father is fascinated by war movies. I suffered through a few viewings with him, but I never enjoyed them and avoid them today. However, I am always interested in *why* people enjoy art or don't, and I'm curious as to where WAR reached a personal threshold.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

ireactions wrote:
Grizzlor wrote:

"War" was flat out horrible, in fact, it was borderline disgusting, hated it.

Can you elaborate on why? I have never seen it and probably won't, simply because there is so much violence and horror in the newspapers I read that I don't need it in fantasy fiction as well. However, I am curious: if RISE and DAWN were setting up an inevitable conflict between two savage races, what made WAR cross the line for you?

My father is fascinated by war movies. I suffered through a few viewings with him, but I never enjoyed them and avoid them today. However, I am always interested in *why* people enjoy art even if I don't myself.

I love war movies, because they are about people.  The director's goal is to lift these characters briefly out of the hell they find themselves in, and to give the audience a taste of their humanity, good and bad, despite the conflict.  I suppose that movie did some of that, but it was very violent.  I actually attended the NY premiere for this movie, ha ha.  May have been the lone time I watched it.  Without spoiling, there are some interesting "choices" regarding the Simian flu that evolves the apes, that kind of retcon this series back to what the original series began with.  I suppose like I said, I just wasn't fond of the portrayal of the apes.  Realizing this is fiction and all, but idk it just seemed more palatable with the kind of makeup and lack of CGI back in the late 60's.  Heston was the all-American who was imprisoned by the facist apes, that's the allegory I took from it.  In this series, humanity is so horrible that it's been virtually destroyed, because of what exactly?  Very dour, you watch the movie and where the series ended up, and you don't feel good about us.  I harken back to my complaints about the lack of national pride.  You have migration all over the world, and people come in, and do not feel as though they are part of their new home.  People are just very angry, all the time.

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Grizzlor wrote:

I love war movies, because they are about people.  The director's goal is to lift these characters briefly out of the hell they find themselves in, and to give the audience a taste of their humanity, good and bad, despite the conflict.  I suppose that movie did some of that, but it was very violent.  I actually attended the NY premiere for this movie, ha ha.  May have been the lone time I watched it.  Without spoiling, there are some interesting "choices" regarding the Simian flu that evolves the apes, that kind of retcon this series back to what the original series began with.  I suppose like I said, I just wasn't fond of the portrayal of the apes.  Realizing this is fiction and all, but idk it just seemed more palatable with the kind of makeup and lack of CGI back in the late 60's.  Heston was the all-American who was imprisoned by the facist apes, that's the allegory I took from it.  In this series, humanity is so horrible that it's been virtually destroyed, because of what exactly?  Very dour, you watch the movie and where the series ended up, and you don't feel good about us.  I harken back to my complaints about the lack of national pride.  You have migration all over the world, and people come in, and do not feel as though they are part of their new home.  People are just very angry, all the time.

I feel that this post has made me understand my father better by explaining why war movies speak to the human condition.

Something you seem to have seized on: the special effects makeup for the original PLANET OF THE APES movies was not very convincing. However, you seem to note: this made the events and the ape characters and the war feel less real and more like an allegorical sketch as opposed to a violent reality. The primitive effects made these war movies seem more like an abstract impression of war.

I am guessing that WAR FOR THE PLANET OF THE APES with its modern CG-enhanced makeup and costuming and prosthetics and motion capture presented a depiction of ape-human war that looked less like an illustrative approximation and more like a documented reality, and that crossed the line.

That's just my guess.

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Grizzlor wrote:

In this series, humanity is so horrible that it's been virtually destroyed, because of what exactly?  Very dour, you watch the movie and where the series ended up, and you don't feel good about us.

I haven't seen War, but I read the full synopsis online.  What's weird is I don't feel like humanity "deserves" what happens to it other than vague "man is bad" stuff.  And the apes, while shown as being given their own shot, aren't any better than the humans.  They're just as bloodthirsty and eager for control or whatever.  Some of the times, the humans aren't even the aggressors.

In Rise, the whole thing starts out as something altruistic.  There are bad humans, sure.  But it all comes from a good place (unless I'm forgetting about something sinister).  This isn't a situation like most robot apocalypses where humanity has enslaved something or someone.  It's just our world with a guy trying to help his father and others like him.

In Dawn, the bad guy isn't necessarily a bad guy.  He's just desperate for things to go back to how they were.  And he's grieving.  I only partially remember the movie and I'm sure he did something unforgivable at some point, but his heart is in the right place from what I remember.

I know in War it's a ruthless military leader.  But at the same time, humanity has been ravaged and there's a struggle for resources.  Humanity is up against a virus that is constantly evolving and killing / stealing the humanity of everyone.  I understood why they did some of the things they did, but it's not for me.

In Kingdom, it at least feels like we're moving to some kind of hopeful future.  I doubt that's where it goes because it needs to eventually get around to the astronauts returning, but I thought the original movies ended in a cool place with apes and humans living together.  I would like to see the movies go in that direction, and have the bad guys people that are xenophobic or whatever.  It seems like every movie is "ITS US OR THEM" and it doesn't need to be that way.

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The original movie was a masterpiece, if you ask me, there were just so many things going on in that script.  So many allegories and symbolism.  The score was unbelievable, Jerry Goldsmith, an absolute master, with how the music kept you riveted and was as frightening as anything.  The cinematographer was Leon Shamroy, who won Oscar for Cleopatra, the man knew how to use the camera.  From the wide shots of the landscape early in the film, to the close-ups when Taylor and humans are being rounded up, just breathtaking.  The original script ironically by Ron Serling presented a far more advance ape society, like the modern films, was too expensive to shoot.  So Michael Wilson, who effectively wrote Lawrence of Arabia, set it in a primitive society which worked perfectly.  Everything about that film worked.  Heston was Heston, with all those improvised one-liners.  Kim Hunter and Roddy Taylor were so charming, and Linda Harrison was astonishingly red hot as Nova.  So many themes.  It's one of my favorite films ever made.  How do you improve on perfection?  You really can't.  At the end of the day, again, I felt like Rise tried to go in a different direction with it, but the series inevitably HAD to move into the post-apocalyptic.  It's fine, they've made a lot of money making them, but as I said, the original tended to be about humans and humans with furry costumes, NOT CGI creatures which truly represent a different species.  It worked better the old way, kind of like how Star Trek aliens did.  They relied on dialogue not makeup.

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Yeah, the new apes movie, which takes place "generations" after the last movie has the apes still moving and acting like apes.  They look more like "real" intelligent apes, but I agree that they've sorta lost whatever metaphor they were going for.  I don't know what the message is in "Kingdom".

I would like it to about how we can be different but still work together.  Maybe that's where it's going.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

One of the oddest projects in recent memory was the SCREAM TV show on MTV which was separate from the movies, but offered a new take on the visceral thrills and chills of the films. While boasting a great cast and a compelling mythology, the show suffered from executive interference with the MTV network constantly trying to change who would be revealed as the killer even after the creators had already changed it as asked.

The second season saw new showrunners come in after the original team got fed up with MTV. The second season ended on a series of cliffhangers... and the third season had yet another new creative team with a completely different cast and story that was unrelated to the first two seasons entirely, leaving that narrative incomplete and abandoned.

Recently, a YouTuber named Nathan Banks who makes the BEYOND THE MASK video essays about the SCREAM movies announced that he had been in contact with the original showrunners and Paramount and had been given permission to write a conclusion to the TV show in the form of a novel, LAKEWOOD: A SCREAM STORY, published first as individual chapters on his Patreon and then as a Kindle ebook on September 2, 2024. While I didn't subscribe to his Patreon, the ebook was only $8 USD, so I pre-ordered it on Amazon.

I was highly aware, though: there has been no official announcement from Paramount TV or Spyglass Media about a SCREAM novel. There has been no corroboration that this Nathan Banks has a publisher or any licensing arrangement with Paramount TV or Spyglass to release a novel featuring the SCREAM TV series characters. The SCREAM franchise logo on the movies and TV show is clearly not on the book cover.

Banks implied in his YouTube video that it was a licensed product in his claim that he'd been in contact with "Paramount" and the "showrunners" about his ebook, but studios generally don't license media tie-ins to be published on private Patreon pages before an ebook release. Studios don't generally approach individual authors, but instead license the property to a book publisher that chooses the author.

In addition, Banks tweeted photos of the print version of the book on his Twitter. He photographed the first two pages. https://x.com/BeyondTheMask8/status/181 … 96/photo/1

I took a look and... Banks does not know how to use commas and periods for dialogue. In English, the convention is that a sentence of dialogue with an attribution tag at the end uses a comma before the closing quotation mark. "I learned about this book," said Ib.

However, Banks alternates between no comma or using a period before the closing quotation mark. ("I learned about this book" said Ib.) ("I learned about this book." said Ib.) This tells me that Banks' grasp of basic English punctuation is confused and applied randomly or not at all. I also noticed that he arbitrarily switched from past to present tense and back.

There's a passage on the second page where Banks addresses the reader to say, "There was a lot Gina could tell you about Aubrey." This direct address to the reader breaks the fourth wall and while not incorrect, is generally avoided in professional prose because it reminds the reader that they are reading a story instead of keeping them immersed in the fiction.

The first two pages have the Audrey character getting a phone call from a girlfriend, Gina, and the dialogue from Gina is: "I'm about to sort out the pizza, can you send me your order before I pick it up?"

Aubrey replies, "Erm, sure. I'll text it through to you now."

This is stilted and unnatural. In American parlance, people "order" pizza, they do not "sort out" pizza. They do not ask people to "send me your order"; they ask what toppings the person wants ("What toppings?" or "What do you want on it?") Americans do not "text it through to you", they "text you". Furthermore, given that Gina and Aubrey are on the phone, there is no need for Aubrey to text anything; a list of toppings is easily conveyed verbally.

It's pretty obvious from these two pages: Nathan Banks is not an American. Banks is English, and he does not have a firm grasp of the American dialect. Nathan Banks is also not particularly skilled in the basics of narrative perspective, tense, human interaction in fictional terms, or how to use quotation marks, periods and commas.

This is just on the first two pages.

Banks is trying to imply that his SCREAM novel is a licensed media tie in; I'm reasonably sure studios and publishers prefer to have their tie-ins written by people with at least a basic aptitude for the written word in the English language. I'm also pretty sure that, for American properties, they would like their hired writers to be able to write Americans in a passably convincing fashion.

I think it's pretty absurd for someone to claim to be a licensed media tie-in novelist when they can't even convincingly render how someone orders a pizza.

Look, I'm far from perfect. My SLIDERS REBORN scripts featured Canadian spellings that Slider_Quinn21 had to strip out. I mistakenly thought you could buy road salt in San Francisco. There were typos. However, I do know how to write prose and dialogue in English and my errors were individual instances. In Banks' case, I've only looked at the first two pages and each page has had least three errors that, in totality, make the whole thing look slapdash to the point of being unpublishable for any professional publisher.

But yes, I pre-ordered the book. It's $8. I wonder if Amazon will ever actually charge me because this is unlicensed fan fiction being sold for money, it's not under a Kindle Worlds license, and I really do not see how that can be legal.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Jim_Hall on Twitter asked Slideheads on Twitter what their favourite show of all time would be if it were not SLIDERS. I suppose SLIDERS is the TV show I think about most. But it isn't actually good. For a show to be my favourite, I would need to say that it:

(a) Was a professional, enjoyable product throughout
(b) Had a decent run of at least four seasons
(c) Had no major shifts in production that made the series subfunctional or outright dysfunctional
(d) Had a series finale that served as a satisfying conclusion

Very, very few shows meet these requirements for me to consider it a favourite. We can dispense with short-term wonders like EERIE INDIANA or WONDERFALLS. But even shows I really like struggled.

ONCE UPON A TIME was, on the whole, a really enjoyable, well-written, wonderfully produced, beautifully acted show -- but for some weird reason, the network renewed it for a seventh season even though all the cast contracts had expired after six, and the show had a baffling final year with new and uninspired characters.

BLINDSPOT and FRINGE were really great shows, but both shows were hit with budget cuts in their fifth and final seasons that truncated some of their plans, and while I enjoyed them, they lost a degree of functionality in their storytelling platforms.

I never finished LOST, but Slider_Quinn21 might say it meets all the conditions. I really liked DEEP SPACE NINE, but the finale was weirdly haphazard and inert due to the struggle to edit too much content into a relatively short running length, so it fails to meet the requirement of a strong series finale. SMALLVILLE was very badly written for too many seasons and its series finale was comically incompetent.

PARKS AND RECREATION was fantastic, but it had an awkward first season and that throws off the average for considering it an enjoyable, professional product on the whole. COMMUNITY had that awkward fourth season. DOCTOR WHO is really a different show each time there's a different showrunner, and I guess I would call the Steven Moffat era my favourite.

But on the whole, the only show I watched in full that was a professional, enjoyable product throughout; had a run of at least four seasons; didn't become subfunctional; and had a satisfying series finale is BROOKLYN NINE NINE.

So... I guess BROOKLYN NINE NINE is my favourite show. I honestly thought it would be FRINGE or ONCE UPON A TIME. I never thought I'd end up choosing the low stakes workplace comedy cop show as my favourite show, but here we are.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

ireactions wrote:

I never finished LOST, but Slider_Quinn21 might say it meets all the conditions.

Let's see:

Was a professional, enjoyable product throughout - Yes, I think so.  Season 2 is a bit muddled and the start to season 3 is  a bit of a mess, but I enjoyed it all the way through.  Season 2 and Season 3 end on such highs that I don't think you can say either of them are bad seasons.  Nothing touches season one, but that's an incredibly high bar IMO.

Had a decent run of at least four seasons - Yes

Had no major shifts in production that made the series subfunctional or outright dysfunctional - The most disfunctional part about LOST was behind the scenes with the weirdest producer/studio issue ever.  Disney wanted the show to continue, and Lindelof and Cuse wanted it to end.  LOST almost became a casualty of its own success.  Outside of a dip in the quality of flashback stories, I don't think this issue affected the show as it aired.  There was some cast issues, but none of them were major (depending on how much you liked Mr. Eko).

Had a series finale that served as a satisfying conclusion - This will be the most debatable of the four for some, and it's going to depend on what you were looking for in a conclusion.  If it was a list of answers to questions that may or may not have already been answered, then no.  If you moved beyond the mysteries to care about the characters, then I think overwhelmingly yes.

Curious - when did you stop and would you ever revisit?  A YouTuber named Billiam recently has been doing these supersized videos on the history of LOST and has stoked my interest in LOST again.  It covers an incredible amount of material in a much shorter amount of time than rewatching the series (although it's still a huge time investment).

******

LOST is my favorite show.  I think the best show of all time is The Wire.  It easily satisfies all four of your requirements.  Even if season 5 is the worst season of the show, the conclusion of the show is incredible.

The Simpsons has moved beyond qualifying for the questions you asked, but I have watched more Simpsons than any show ever.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I would say: my criteria for a favourite show is a highly personal list of attributes and others may disagree. I formed the list by looking at how LOST is Slider_Quinn21's favourite show. LOST was, judging from Slider_Quinn21's posts, a good product. It lasted long enough to become a part of his life; it didn't degrade or devolve to the point where it couldn't tell its stories or complete its narrative goals; it had a conclusion.

I recall watching LOST up to the point when Jack returns to the island and is met by Jin, at which point, I was looking for something more life-affirming out of TV shows and less... unnerving.

While I didn't watch LOST past Jack's return to the Island, it might be argued: LOST was an ensemble show touching on various lives and rotating through them, and LOST was about unknowable mysteries that might have no answer. Therefore, dropping or losing characters, blind alleys, and an emphasis on characterization over mystery is not necessarily the show becoming subfunctional/dysfunctional but rather an avoidable part of exploring its core themes, some less rewarding than others.

I can't speak to this definitively, but around the point I stopped watching LOST, I did feel that the mysteries of the Island would not become more meaningful if we learned that it's the site of a crashed alien spaceship that warps time and space and manifests anomalies based on the internal conflicts of the humans in proximity. That strikes me as reducing the unknowable to sci-fi technobabble terms, when the show does better by using the paranormal nature of the island to illustrate the character conflicts -- while leaving the exact means of manifestation unknown.

That said, isn't there some sort of DVD/Blu-ray short film that 'explains' 'everything'? Knowing LOST, I assume the explanations are as confounding as the mysteries.
https://www.denofgeek.com/tv/lost-epilo … -questions

**

I think, for me, ONCE UPON A TIME is my equivalent of LOST: a complex set of arcs and plots alternating between flashbacks and present day scenes, except ONCE UPON A TIME had the benefit of its mythology -- Disney versions of fairy tales -- already being established long before the show premiered. In contrast, LOST had to create its own mythology and had a much longer ladder to climb. I think ONCE UPON A TIME's whimsical, gentle, sweet tone proved a better match to my tastes and longings and insecurities and neuroses than LOST.

At the end of the day, what I want out of TV (and life) is BROOKLYN NINE-NINE: lighthearted hijinks from highly competent people working to make the world a little nicer one day at a time. (See also: PARKS AND RECREATION, ANIMAL CONTROL, THE ORVILLE.)

My niece would also point out that I have an obsession with TV shows about troubled women fighting crime (WYNONNA EARP, THE BLACKLIST, BLINDSPOT, CORONER, AGENT CARTER), but aside from WYNONNA EARP, I would have to call each one of them flawed favourites. I would have a separate category for flawed favourites, some of which are only flawed in minor ways and some which are catastrophic disasters. (I need to rewatch WYNONNA EARP to decide if it is a favourite.)

**

Why do I say a show needs to last four years to qualify as a favourite show? I think four years is the point where the show has become a part of my life. The Arrowverse was a part of my life. At three years, I'm still thinking that the show is a temporary situation; at four years, it feels long-term.

**

I didn't think about THE SIMPSONS, or SOUTH PARK, but I guess I think of those as being in a class of their own, separate from live action TV shows.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

This is interesting

https://www.hiddendoor.co

I seem to recall Aaron used a different story of storytelling participating site.  This one is different.  I don't think they have many IP brands integrated yet but they have some decent investors that may give them a shot if they get enough traction with their initial product.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

LOST is one of those shows where they just simply ran out of good ideas.  It probably should have ended after like 3 seasons, but they wound up gaining cast members by constantly time shifting, and it became a convoluted mess.  The writer's strike really screwed things up with big hiatus.  I would put the first three seasons (pre-strike) up against any genre show there's been, especially anything with a mostly linear continuity.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Grizzlor wrote:

LOST is one of those shows where they just simply ran out of good ideas.  It probably should have ended after like 3 seasons, but they wound up gaining cast members by constantly time shifting, and it became a convoluted mess.  The writer's strike really screwed things up with big hiatus.  I would put the first three seasons (pre-strike) up against any genre show there's been, especially anything with a mostly linear continuity.

I'll go ahead and link to the video since I'm going to use a lot of it as background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tk664MfQgU You might think the video is long but it's actually part one of at least five videos of varying lengths.

The writers didn't see the show as a long-term project.  They didn't expect it to be successful and when it was, they knew it couldn't be sustained at the same level.  The writers knew as early as season 2 that they weren't going to be able to make the show last forever.  There were just two problems - it was a monster hit that ABC didn't want to let go and shows just didn't operate like that back then.  Nowadays you can have a show like Three Body Problem that's set for three seasons and that's it.  Back then, shows were on until they ran out of steam or until something like Friends or Seinfeld where everyone just decides its over.

To their credit, the writers tried to make it work a couple different ways.  They introduced the Tailies to give more backstories they could show.  They introduced Nikki and Paolo as a way to show a new perspective and maybe even show flashbacks to the Island.  They introduced Others like Juliet that could have their own flashbacks.  Everyone (including the writers) always points to the "Jack's tattoos" episode, but that was after they'd tried a bunch of different things.

What ended up changing things was Carlton and Damon essentially threatening (and preparing) to quit the show.  They didn't want to be involved in a 20-season LOST where Jack has a flashback about how he bought his dad's shoes. 

They wanted two seasons to wrap things up and settled for three.  I think seasons 4-6 are pretty lean, especially for network TV at the time.  I think there's a universe where it went four seasons (where seasons 2 and 3 are combined and seasons 4-6 are just two seasons), but I think the only difference would be less meandering in the beginnings of seasons 2 and 3.  I think the Henry Gale stretch of episodes is one of the strongest outside of season 1 and season 3 (once Jack and Juliet get back with the group) is also incredibly strong.  I could see a version of "Season 2" where Henry is found around episode 4, he captures Jack/Kate/Sawyer midseason, and they get off the Island at the end of Season 2.  But you'd probably lose some meat with the fat in that instance.

I think people didn't love the time travel stuff, but I really think if you look at everything from LOST from a character lens instead of a plot lens, the show is so much better.  Was I extremely satisfied with the answer to "what is the Island?"  No.  But at that point, I honestly didn't care about that.  I loved the characters and just wanted to see what happened to them.  Time travel allowed them to literally live in the past, and the show was all about the past.  The flash sideways was somewhat predictable and cliched, but the whole show was about moving on from their baggage.  There wasn't a better metaphor for that.

I'm not accusing Grizzlor of misunderstanding but there's also a lot of criticism that's directly related to people misunderstanding the end.  They weren't dead the whole time.  They didn't even die at the same time - some people died decades apart from each other.  Some was people not listening and some was bizarre choices like having the final credits roll over images of the empty wreckage on the beach with the sound of waves (which could imply, in a vacuum, that they died in the crash and none of it happened).  The problem is that the show explicitly says that it all happened.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I don't think every show needs to run 100 episodes -- but every TV series should have at least 100 stories to tell or it's not a TV series. If a show can only last three seasons, it shouldn't be a show, at least not to me. (Mini serieses, I think of as a separate category.) To say LOST should only have run three seasons would be, to me, an indictment of LOST as a TV show. I think it probably had around five years in it, and they seem to have done well enough with six seasons if Slider_Quinn21 enjoyed it.

I wonder what Slider_Quinn21 thought of the DVD epilogue:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lMjPzV2RvO8

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I really liked the epilogue.  I think the Ben Linus one is a bit silly because it's one of those "rapid fire answer" segments.  If you really cared about answers, I guess its satisfying but it doesn't really do anything for the character stuff I liked.

The Hurley/Walt scene was really cool.  I wish they'd been able to put that into the actual show, but I don't have any idea where it goes into the finale.  I also would've loved to have seen a Hurley/Ben/Walt spinoff show.  Or some kind of rebootquel now.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

The writers didn't see the show as a long-term project.  They didn't expect it to be successful and when it was, they knew it couldn't be sustained at the same level.  The writers knew as early as season 2 that they weren't going to be able to make the show last forever.  There were just two problems - it was a monster hit that ABC didn't want to let go and shows just didn't operate like that back then.  Nowadays you can have a show like Three Body Problem that's set for three seasons and that's it.  Back then, shows were on until they ran out of steam or until something like Friends or Seinfeld where everyone just decides its over.

To their credit, the writers tried to make it work a couple different ways.  They introduced the Tailies to give more backstories they could show.  They introduced Nikki and Paolo as a way to show a new perspective and maybe even show flashbacks to the Island.  They introduced Others like Juliet that could have their own flashbacks.  Everyone (including the writers) always points to the "Jack's tattoos" episode, but that was after they'd tried a bunch of different things.

I'm well aware.  In fact, one of the prior iterations of our Sliders bboards had a trove of discussion throughout the run of the series.  It was led primarily by who else, the Informant!  Unfortunately, those are long, long gone now.  As I said, I enjoyed the series throughout, including the end.  However, in hindsight, I also found the 2nd half to be rather pointless to the overall arc.  This happens all the time with series like this.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I have a soft spot for the Saw films (I don't know why.  I'm not a horror person and I don't like gore or torture porn or any of that stuff).  I watched Saw X and actually thought it was pretty great.  I was surprised that the franchise had that in them.

I also was pleasantly surprised by The Hunger Games prequel "The Ballad of Songbirds and Snakes" - I enjoyed (for the most part) the Hunger Games books and movies but didn't have a ton of interest in seeing a prequel.  But despite being too long, I thought it had a compelling story and kept my attention throughout.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I enjoyed THE HUNGER GAMES novel trilogy and the first film was fine, but after that... I'd already been through the experience in prose and didn't feel inclined to relive it in movie theatres. But I'm sure the movies are fine.

**

I went to see THE CROW (2024) in movie theatres, which I cannot recommend. In fact, I don't consider most movies worth the $15 USD or so ticket price (with online booking fee). However, the main cinema chain in my city is now offering a subscription: about $8 USD a month for one prepaid movie ticket. An upcharge of $2.50 for 3D and $4 for IMAX. All subsequent tickets for the month are charged at the $8 starting rate.

At that price, I am inclined to see at least one movie a month and considered $8 a fair price for the gleeful incompetence of the new CROW movie. And then I found myself looking at upcoming theatrical releases: THE SUBSTANCE with Demi Moore, MY OLD ASS with Aubrey Plaza, NEVER LET GO with Hallie Berry, all coming out September, none of which I would pay $15 to see, all of which are worth $8 each to me.

I assume that this is a good deal for the cineplex who now get a guaranteed $96 out of me a year and potentially more if there is more than one movie I'm interested in that month and don't feel as resistant to the price.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I thought Alien Romulus was worth seeing at the theater.  And Furiosa.  I didn't love either film (but I liked both of them), but I thought seeing it in theaters was enjoyable.  I wish my theater had been a little more raucous in my viewing of Deadpool and Wolverine, but I had to see it on a Monday night after it had already been out a few days.

I also would like to see Megalopolous in theaters, if only to experience whatever they're going to do for the "audience interaction" part of the movie.

I try to see the Marvel movies in theaters if only so I don't have to wait three months and avoid spoilers for that long.  I know it's expensive but my wife and I are both pretty good with not spending for anything crazy so I feel like it's worth it every month or two.

597 (edited by ireactions 2024-09-02 20:09:51)

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I'm super-confused about movie ticket prices where you live. Alamo Drafthouse seemed to be charging $9.73 USD for regular admission but AMC was charging $12 USD for regular admission. I'm probably looking at the wrong pages. How much is the average movie ticket?

It looks like AMC Stubs would charge you $20 a month and allows you to see three movies a week, which means it could be worthwhile if you're someone who sees at least two movies a month. However, $20 a month, even for three movies a week, is a much bigger fee than $8 a month for one movie a month. https://www.moneydigest.com/1548760/amc … rth-price/

Tickets here in Toronto, Ontario, Canada tend to be about $15 USD if you buy them online (factoring in an online booking fee), and about $12 USD if bought in person, but who's going to do that? It's slow and it's reserved seating, so if you go to the theatre just in time for the show, all the good seats are probably gone (unless you're watching THE CROW in 2024, nobody wants to see it).

$15 USD for one movie as well as having to physically go to the theatre and park and enter and see it on their schedule makes me feel like they should be paying me for my time. I imagine a lot of people feel that way and elect to stay home and watch Netflix. $8 USD, however, feels like a reasonable price.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I skip theaters. Does anyone else collect physical media? I've been upgrading my collection to 4K discs from some of my old blu-ray and DVDs. I picked up a show called "Early Edition", DVD of course. It aired on CBS back in the 90s, but it's no where to be found streaming. I guess I feel ownership is important (even though you only have certain rights to use them). Plus seeing the artwork on a shelf makes in more appealing than a digital front to me.

I wanted to order the Kingdom of the Planet of the Apes, but the 4K is running at an appalling $35 right now and people aren't happy. People proclaim that physical media is cheaper, and they're definitely wrong. The bang for the buck is through all the streaming services, but it gets annoying when I wanted to rewatch a movie a while back and suddenly it's pulled. Only to be rented or sold via Apple, etc. I don't remember the name.

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Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

I used to be an obsessive DVD collector. I don't collect physical media much now, but I have kept my DVD (yes, standard definition DVD) collection.

I once spent crazy money on a complete set of DANGER MAN, half of which I gave away to my father (he loves the American episodes). There came a point when I had to ask myself whether or not I would ever actually rewatch any of these discs, and each time I asked myself that, I found myself more often than not deciding against the purchase.

I was a huge fan of EARLY EDITION and didn't realize a full series DVD release was out! Thanks for mentioning that, I will snap that up.

Re: Random Thoughts about TV, Film and Media

ireactions wrote:

I'm super-confused about movie ticket prices where you live. Alamo Drafthouse seemed to be charging $9.73 USD for regular admission but AMC was charging $12 USD for regular admission. I'm probably looking at the wrong pages. How much is the average movie ticket?

So I usually go see movies with my buddy.  I will buy the tickets and then he'll buy the next ones.  Looking at my credit card bill, it looks like I spend $30.08 for two tickets including whatever fees and tax or whatever.  He and I live on opposite sides of the city so we have to sorta find a theater that works geographically and we've settled on that one.  I don't get any concessions (I will have already eaten dinner and I don't need anything that will make me have to pee in the middle).

Budgets are different for each person, but I think $15 for the opportunity to hang out with my friend and see a new release is okay with me.  Especially for situations like a) getting to experience the surprises of Deadpool and Wolverine without being spoiled or b) getting to see George Miller action on the big screen or c) experiencing a new Alien film on the big screen in a silent theater.

I think that's a good experience.  I've also found myself watching a lot of things while I'm working or even getting my phone out while something is on.  I've become a second screen guy, despite my best intentions.  So unless I'm watching something with my wife (which is rare), watching something on the treadmill, or watching something in a theater, I don't feel like I'm giving it my full attention.  So it's an excuse for me to actually watch something I want to watch.