Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:
QuinnSlidr wrote:

ireactions - You did ask for a representative. The other James above that you mention is not a government rep. smile Otherwise I probably would have included who you did.

Semantics, I know...oh, well...

I think you are confused. The James Carville Jr. you mentioned and quoted is the same person I quoted. Carville Jr. is not a Republican. However, Carville Jr. is also strongly opposed to the social justice focus of a number of Democrats, in particular Bernie Sanders.

On further review you are correct. Nevermind!

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

A couple of notes of note:

- Regarding polling error.  This is my big worry because we literally won't know the error until it's essentially too late.  In 2020, the error was pretty huge in some cases so the whole thing makes me nervous.  The polling error in 2020 was enormous, but it was also a pretty unusual year (obviously).  With lockdowns going on across the country and Democrats more locked down than usual, the samples could've been incorrect.  There was also the "shy Trump voter" issue at hand as Trump was extremely unpopular.

There was some thought earlier in the year that Biden might've had the same issue.  Biden was so unpopular that people might've been "shy Biden voters" and told pollsters that they were voting for who they were perceiving is/was the more popular candidate at the time.

Are there still shy Trump voters?  I feel like Republicans would be more likely now to admit that they are supporting Trump - the legal stuff might have dissuaded them a little bit, but that seems to have passed a bit.  I also think you're seeing Biden voters saying they're switching to Trump so I think that bit of polling error might have been corrected a bit.  Obviously the covid stuff is over so the sampling issue might be fixed.  There's a thought that Republicans are just against polls and are less likely to take them.  So that could still be an issue.

Of course, during the primaries, Biden overperformed his polls and Trump underperformed his.  Is there a chance that pollsters, in an attempt to correct 2020, overcorrected and are oversampling Republicans?  Is it the other theory that Republican-funded polls that lean right are flooding the market and affecting polling averages?  Maybe?  I would love if the polling was wrong but in our direction.  I guess we won't know until November.

- Trump is flirting with dropping out of the debate.  If he does, Harris needs to use the time.  Trump is doing exactly zero to court voters in the middle, and she could have a great opportunity to reach people.  I think Trump would be making a huge mistake by not debating, and I think she may be the one who doesn't need it.  I think, obviously, she needs to appear to want to do it no matter what.

- Has she scheduled a national TV interview yet?  She said she would by the end of the month.  She really needs to do that because it's an attack that the right will continue to use on her.  And it's an attack that I think is hitting her.  I know she's trying to campaign as much as possible, but she needs to make this a priority.  And I think she should do a bunch of interviews if she can.

- She and Walz are doing a bus tour of Georgia.  Georgia is the only state that she's behind in the 538 polling average so I'm interested in what her campaign is thinking.  Do they think there's huge gains they can make in Georgia?  I would think that something like this could be more effective in places like Pennsylvania or even North Carolina, but maybe there's plans for that too.  Best case scenario for democracy is for her to sweep all seven battleground states, but Georgia makes me nervous because of all of the control that Republicans have over the election process.  I think it's the state that's most likely to be flipped.  I'll be interested to see if the bus tour works (Trump is also focused on Georgia so maybe she can just play defense and make Trump focus on Georgia which could help her in Pennsylvania).

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The polls cannot be trusted. They couldn't be trusted when Biden was spiraling because slanted Republican polls were throwing off the averages, making a very close election seem like Trump was in the lead. They can't be trusted now because the enthusiasm of Kamala Harris reception and campaign means Democrats are more inclined to respond to polls and Trump supporters are less inclined to do so.

The likely situation is that the race remains close and competitive, and Democratic pollsters have warned that Kamala (as she prefers voters call her) has a lot of work to do.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/2 … s-00176065

That said, Trump clearly thinks he's losing. He's given up on impactful campaign events. He's stopped trying to build a coalition. His hope is to overturn or stall election results in court and with supporters in electoral offices.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Kamala (I'll call her that if she prefers - I've been trying to use her last name the same way I would a male candidate) and Walz scheduled an interview.  I read that she's been a bit argumentative in the past (heck maybe I read it here) with interviewers, and I'm hoping Walz can help her with that. I think she needs to do a press conference as well.  I'd really love for her to do with Pete has done and go on Fox News and take their questions, but if she hasn't responded well in that setting, that could easily backfire.

But I'll be interested to see how she does.  She's definitely doing more outreach than him.

What's interesting to me, still, is that Trump has actually gained a bit himself.  His campaign is losing, but it's had forward momentum.  There's been plenty of cases of Harris, simply by getting exposure, has won over undecided voters and even some Republicans.  She needs to reach as many people as she can, and she needs to come across as confident and presidential.  People know who Trump is, and he's painted her as this incompetent buffoon.  It won't be difficult for her to overcome that and impress people.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I was referring to Kamala by surname too, but she rebranded Biden's campaign with her given name, and then I read this article:

https://www.politico.com/news/2024/08/1 … g-00173064

People who have long known Harris say she sees using her first name as a way to be informal with voters and constituents — to send a message that she’s working for them, that they should hold her accountable.

"... when she was talking directly to voters, or constituents, she would usually say, ‘Just call me Kamala,’” said a person who worked with Harris while she was attorney general, granted anonymity to speak candidly about their experiences with the vice president. “I think that was a way to say like, you’re the boss. I’m working for you.”

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Contrast that to Trump who makes everyone around him call him Mr. President.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

pilight wrote:

Bail reform is not soft on crime.  If a crime is serious enough to hold someone prior to trial, fine.  If it's not, fine.  There is no situation in which a crime is serious enough to hold someone unless they have money to buy their way out.

Tell that to the NYPD, who are forced to re-arrest the same violent criminals, many migrant gang members, some who have attacked cops, over and over.  These criminals are let right back onto the street, and commit further violent crimes.  It's a complete disaster.  It started from a point of social justice, as yes, many people were held seemingly indefinitely for trial, and could not afford bail.  However, it was taken advantage of by lunatic judges from the get-go.  The rampant violent crime, played out nightly on local news, in NYC plus a failure to gerrymander, literally handed GOP most of the NY state suburb districts around Manhattan.  Including one to the ridiculous George Santos.  New Jersey remained blue, because we don't allow that shit here!  You attack a cop, you beat up a woman, or you throw someone off a subway platform, you stay in jail, in Jersey. 

ireactions wrote:
QuinnSlidr wrote:

ireactions - You did ask for a representative. The other James above that you mention is not a government rep. smile Otherwise I probably would have included who you did.

Semantics, I know...oh, well...

I think you are confused. The James Carville Jr. you mentioned and quoted is the same person I quoted. Carville Jr. is not a Republican. However, Carville Jr. is also strongly opposed to the social justice focus of a number of Democrats, in particular Bernie Sanders.

BTW, one of those Bernie alums is now Trump backer Tulsi Gabbard. 

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

A couple of notes of note

- Regarding polling error.  This is my big worry because we literally won't know the error until it's essentially too late.  In 2020, the error was pretty huge in some cases so the whole thing makes me nervous.  The polling error in 2020 was enormous, but it was also a pretty unusual year (obviously).  With lockdowns going on across the country and Democrats more locked down than usual, the samples could've been incorrect.  There was also the "shy Trump voter" issue at hand as Trump was extremely unpopular.

There was some thought earlier in the year that Biden might've had the same issue.  Biden was so unpopular that people might've been "shy Biden voters" and told pollsters that they were voting for who they were perceiving is/was the more popular candidate at the time.

Are there still shy Trump voters?  I feel like Republicans would be more likely now to admit that they are supporting Trump - the legal stuff might have dissuaded them a little bit, but that seems to have passed a bit.  I also think you're seeing Biden voters saying they're switching to Trump so I think that bit of polling error might have been corrected a bit.  Obviously the covid stuff is over so the sampling issue might be fixed.  There's a thought that Republicans are just against polls and are less likely to take them.  So that could still be an issue.

Of course, during the primaries, Biden overperformed his polls and Trump underperformed his.  Is there a chance that pollsters, in an attempt to correct 2020, overcorrected and are oversampling Republicans?  Is it the other theory that Republican-funded polls that lean right are flooding the market and affecting polling averages?  Maybe?  I would love if the polling was wrong but in our direction.  I guess we won't know until November.

- Trump is flirting with dropping out of the debate.  If he does, Harris needs to use the time.  Trump is doing exactly zero to court voters in the middle, and she could have a great opportunity to reach people.  I think Trump would be making a huge mistake by not debating, and I think she may be the one who doesn't need it.  I think, obviously, she needs to appear to want to do it no matter what.

- Has she scheduled a national TV interview yet?  She said she would by the end of the month.  She really needs to do that because it's an attack that the right will continue to use on her.  And it's an attack that I think is hitting her.  I know she's trying to campaign as much as possible, but she needs to make this a priority.  And I think she should do a bunch of interviews if she can.

- She and Walz are doing a bus tour of Georgia.  Georgia is the only state that she's behind in the 538 polling average so I'm interested in what her campaign is thinking.  Do they think there's huge gains they can make in Georgia?  I would think that something like this could be more effective in places like Pennsylvania or even North Carolina, but maybe there's plans for that too.  Best case scenario for democracy is for her to sweep all seven battleground states, but Georgia makes me nervous because of all of the control that Republicans have over the election process.  I think it's the state that's most likely to be flipped.  I'll be interested to see if the bus tour works (Trump is also focused on Georgia so maybe she can just play defense and make Trump focus on Georgia which could help her in Pennsylvania).

You're going to drive yourself mad with these dumb polls.  Here's something, Gallup just released a poll where enthusiasm, however they're measuring that, is now at 78% among Democrats, an unheard of number, and 46% with Republicans.  In general, the polls are very close to 2020 in the swing states.  The national average is not, but that's because RCP for instance takes forever to roll recent polls into the avg.  My feeling is that Harris is ahead of Clinton '16, but trailing Biden '20.  One factor in those races were third parties.  They received nearly 6% of the vote in 2016, which was a killer for Hillary, and then just 1.5% which greatly helped Biden.  Trump in now a third election, remains marooned at the 46-47% mark.  With RFK Jr. basically out, I think the "other" vote total could be as low as 2% now.  That could allow Harris to get into the 50.5% range, with Trump "growing" to 47-47.5%.  That would make many of these battleground states insanely razor thin.  I still like her polling in MI, WI, and yes NV, a notoriously difficult state to poll.  Demographics give Harris a chance in NC and GA, but I'm not confident there at all.  I think she has a better chance with AZ.  That leaves PA, which I fear is absurdly close, and could be decided by hundreds of votes.  Have I driven you madder?

Harris and Walz first interview sit down with CNN is coming soon.  She was of course attacked by GOP for having a dual sit down, when EVERY OTHER campaign including Trump Pence did the same thing. 

Harris agenda is all over the place, even I can't keep up.  Still, I feel like she's taking a page out of Trump's book, and just pandering.  And why not?  Worked for him.

BTW, Harris strategy to campaign in rural areas is terrific.  You need to cut down the red margins in those places!  This is the Obama strategy, and of course, the opposite of what Hillary did and paid for.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor wrote:

You're going to drive yourself mad with these dumb polls.

Oh I know.  And I know it doesn't mean anything.  If she's winning by 3, she could be losing by 2.  If she's winning by 5, it could be tied.  Heck if she's winning by 10 she could be losing.

But I've followed a lot of pollsters since 2019ish and I'm just sorta fascinated by polling - especially polling when it comes to Trump.  This is the only way I can really *not* go crazy is to have some sort of vibe on how things are going, and this is the only way I can do that.

I think I'd go crazier if I didn't check it every day.

BTW, Harris strategy to campaign in rural areas is terrific.  You need to cut down the red margins in those places!  This is the Obama strategy, and of course, the opposite of what Hillary did and paid for.

I completely agree.  I've been reading that she's learned the mistakes from 2016, and that's great.  I think the Georgia bus tour is great, and if it works, I'd like them to do that in as many swing states as possible.  I'd love for something in Pennsylvania, Michigan, and Wisconsin (and NE-2).  I know that North Carolina and Arizona and Nevada are all possible and if they can also tour those states...go for it.  But this election will be technically won in the Blue Wall.  If you get Michigan, Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, and Nebraska-2, that's 270.

Is 270 enough?  For the first time in US history, maybe not.  But it sounds like the Harris campaign is going to have boots on the ground to combat whatever post-election nonsense that Trump is going to do, and I think her campaign's job should be to get to 270.  If they can get AZ and NV, great.  If they can also get GA and/or NC, even better.  The more states she gets *above* 270, the less likely Trump can steal something.  But the priority, of course, needs to be getting to 270.  And the polls, for whatever reason and giving them the attention they actually deserve, are dipping a bit in Michigan and Wisconsin.  And I think she needs to sore that up.  If she can get Michigan, Wisconsin, and Nebraska 2, then she has so many paths.  Pennsylvania alone.  Nevada plus either Georgia or North Carolina.  Arizona plus Georgia or North Carolina.  It would be nice if Nevada plus Arizona was 19 votes, but that's why Pennsylvania is so important.

*******

One thing to note.  Trump has softened his abortion stance once again (and Vance is joining him).  They're pledging no national abortion ban.  They're using pro-choice language.  And it's starting to really upset the pro-life people.  If any of them decide to sit out the election, that could be a huge swing in some of these places.  They already beat Roe so some of them might think the battle is already won and stick it to the GOP for not being more committed to a national ban.

And as we all know, a few thousands votes here and there could actually matter.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I have no idea what local NYC news is reporting, but in the real world violent crime rates in NYC are down.

3,010 (edited by QuinnSlidr 2024-08-30 07:01:02)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Please somebody do something about my blood pressure. I just had to tune into the CNN JD Vance interview and it was a train wreck of lies. Every word from that couch humper took my blood pressure up 10 points per word. Shame on CNN for providing that couch humper with a platform. Yes, I did watch Kamala and Tim's interview last night and it was masterful. Anyway......

Top lies from the interview aka JD Vance is a freaking liar:

"Trump just wants the Dobbs decision to go back to the states the federal government should not decide what Christian hospitals can do." - Me: Ugh. 'nuff said. A vote for Trump is a vote for the end of women's rights.

"Kamala opened up the border." - Me: See next comment.

"She hasn't done anything in 3.5 years about the border and saying that she wants to do something about the border while looking in the eyes of the American people is shameful." Me: Yeah because your people killed the border bill on Trump's order.

"We have top democrats working for us who voted against Kamala in 2020 including RFK Jr." Me: HAHAHAHAHAHA - RFK Jr. is a right wing extremist anti-vaxx conspiracy theorist nut job with a brain worm, you fool. Where have you been?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The sabotage of Georgia's process for vote counting is scaring me.
https://www.salon.com/2024/08/31/organi … ing-chaos/

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah, that's why I'm hesitant to fully trust the Harris campaign's strategy to go after Georgia.  Again, maybe there are plans to do this in other states, but outside of forcing Trump to spend money there, I'm sorta counting Georgia as a loss.  If you need to focus resources in that area, focus them in North Carolina.  But even then, I think my strategy would be to (in order of necessity):

1. Shore up Pennsylvania
2. Shore up Michigan / Wisconsin / Nebraska-2
3. Build up the vote in Arizona
4. Build up the vote in Nevada
5. Try to win North Carolina
6. Try to win Georgia

If you win PA / MI / WI / NE2 / AZ / NV, it's 287-251.  The worry there would be Trump somehow flipping Pennsylvania and winning, but if you focus on Pennsylvania as your top priority (in all aspects, including protecting the vote and working to make sure Trump can't do anything illegal), then it's two birds with one stone.  At 287, Trump would need to flip two non-PA battleground states, and he wouldn't even have the one he's more likely to flip (Georgia).

So maybe she's going to try and do a tour of every battleground state and she's just doing Georgia first.  If not, I think she's misusing time and resources on a state that Trump is best suited to win and/or steal.

*****

Cook Political report did move North Carolina to toss up which is cool.  It basically only leaves Nebraska-2 as a "Lean" vote on either side.  There are no longer any Lean Republican states.  So they're basically saying all seven are toss ups and the rest of the votes are pretty safe.  I will feel better when/if they move states like Michigan or Wisconsin to Lean Democrat, but I don't know if that will happen before the election.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I've been trying to find the right metaphor for the argument where certain individuals claim that masks don't filter viruses because they (supposedly) read mask studies where participants self-reported on whether or not they wore masks and got sick. These studies are where the mask-wearing participants, by their own admission, did not wear masks consistently.

To me, citing self-reported mask wearing studies as 'evidence' that masks don't work is like saying computers don't compute because a lot of people have trouble plugging them in.

Or like saying planes don't fly because a lot of people don't have pilot's licenses.

Or like saying smoke detectors don't detect smoke because people forget to replace the battery.

Or like saying bookshelves don't assemble because people lose the nuts and bolts.

Or like saying fire extinguishers don't extinguish because people forget to refill and repressurize them.

Or like saying phones don't take photos because people can't find the camera app.

Or like saying beds don't work because people suffer from insomnia.

People may fail to use equipment as per standard operating procedures. They may fail to use the equipment at all, but that is a human failure, not a failure of the equipment and the basic principles behind the equipment.

A mask wearing study is a study of whether or not people wear masks consistently, not whether or not masks work.

My hope is to get this metaphor down to two sentences with further research and development, and I will be assembling a committee of 12 and retaining a public relations firm to compress this further.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

So after getting some calming confidence, I'm starting to get a little nervous again.  I feel like the momentum has dipped, and I'd like to see a little more out of the Harris campaign.  I guess the problem is that there's not a lot of great state-level polling at all.  I'm confused on why there hasn't been a NYT poll in a month.

I'm also back to worrying about Pennsylvania - and I'm thinking the entire election comes down there.  And don't get me wrong - I think Tim Walz is a great speaker and a great running mate and I think would be a great VP.  But I'm still uneasy about bypassing Shapiro.  We aren't seeing much movement with Walz on the ticket, and I'm pretty sure Shapiro would've given something.  And as much as it would be great to flip North Carolina or keep Georgia, I'm worried that if Kamala doesn't get Pennsylvania it simply won't matter.

Debate is in a week so let's see if that changes things.

Positives:

- Trump continues to do little to reach middle of the road voters.  He didn't even campaign yesterday.  Other than the national news covering his events, I don't feel like he's doing much to appeal to everyday voters.  I did see my first Trump ad which ran during a college football game I was watching.

- Kamala still has the enthusiasm edge, which Grizzlor likes to point out.  I think that will help.

- When Trump blasts Kamala, he always insults her intelligence.  If you're leaning-Trump voter who hasn't really heard Kamala speak, I assume you have rock-bottom expectations for her.  As long as Kamala has a solid performance, I wonder if people are going to be genuinely surprised at how smart she is.  I wonder if that kind of thing will backfire.  If people are expecting something terrible and that something ends up being okay, the expectation gap will actually make it seem good.  Something good turns into something great.

- I think Trump's reached his ceiling.  I don't think there's anyone left who was going to vote for someone else and is going to switch their vote to Trump.  I think she hasn't hit her ceiling yet.  I think Trump can shed voters by saying/doing something stupid in the debate or annoying them, and I think she can win people over in the debate.  As long as she doesn't absolutely bomb the debate, I think she will have the edge going into election day, no matter how slight.  And considering where we were after the last debate, that's all I can really ask for.

3,015

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Just take the week off, nobody is paying attention to squat until the debate.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

NEVER big_smile

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

From Simon Rosenberg at HopiumChronicles.com on the polls:

One polling note... you often hear commentators talk about Trump overperforming public polling in 2016 and 2020 which means we need to be up by 3-4-5 points or more in the polls to win. That may have been true in 2016 and 2020, but it is core to our understanding here that everything in American politics changed with Dobbs, it was a before and after moment, and that:

Republicans have underperforming public polls in races of all kinds all across the country since Dobbs. We’ve been overperforming public polls not them.

Trump underperformed - not overperformed - public polls in his primary elections, sometimes by a big number.

The fascists underperformed public polls in the recent European and French elections, and the right got blown out in the UK.

Every election is unique, not like any other. I think comparisons to 2016 and 2020 are unhelpful, for Trump 2024 is now an insurrectionist, a rapist, fraudster, traitor, felon, and the man who stripped the rights and freedoms away from the women of America. He is far more degraded, diminished and extreme.

I believe, deeply, that 2024 will not be 2020 or 2016. I think it is far more likely that Trump underperforms than overperforms public polling, and that we end up kicking his ass this November.

**

... regardless of what the polling shows, what we are seeing in all this other data is heightened Dem intensity, and GOP struggle. While all that may change on Election Day itself, it is far more likely Election Day will be just one more day in an election that has looked far more favorable to Dems than polling or conventional wisdom holds since Dobbs.

**

The problem for Republicans is all that Dem intensity doesn’t just drive our strong performance in the special elections and the early vote, it translates into far more money, more paid communications, stronger organizations and campaigns and hundreds of thousands of volunteers who can now - using new tools like postcarding, remote texting, remote phonebanking - channel this intensity into direct voter contact in the battlegrounds. All this intensity can be more far more effectively channeled into making our campaigns stronger, making our close stronger and making it far more likely we win.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I like that.  Nate Silver also seems to be hesitant that there will be a huge polling error.  He thinks (and I think I agree) that polling is mostly good but was thrown out of whack by the shift in the electorate in 2016 and the Covid situation in 2020.  That, while it's been 100% happening in every Donald Trump election, that it's a sample size of two and that's not great for a statistician.  It could be one of those "Crime rates and ice cream sales are directly related" things where it looks like they're related but they're not.

I would like some high-quality polling from swing states to feel better.  Feels like it's been forever since we had one.

*******

I read an interesting opinion piece from a conservative.  It was one of those "conservatives are better off if Kamala wins" but not (fully) from the perspectives of a Liz Cheney-like conservative.  The writer (and I would love to link but I couldn't find it in a quick google search) talked about how the GOP is probably going to win the Senate and maybe the House...so even if Harris wanted to do some sort of crazy progressive agenda, it probably wouldn't work.  That Republicans in the House and Senate (and, if needed, the Supreme Court) would be there to push back on anything she wanted to do.  And, then, having a Democrat in the White House would help increase the GOP lead in Congress going into 2028.

It did talk about finally getting Trump out of their party, but that was the piece that they felt least confident in.  That even if Trump was gone, those currently-reliable Republican voters might never come back.

I just thought it was an interesting perspective.  A sort of "Republicans can lose the battle but win the war" and it was actually fairly convincing.  My biggest fear going forward for Democrats is how do they maintain their voting block without Trump to hold them together?  It's hard to appeal to white suburban voters who care about climate change and abortion, while also appealing to blue collar union workers who just care about putting food on the table.

I assume after Trump is gone, whenever that is, that there will be another shift in the electorate and a bunch of the MAGA people will be up for grabs.

3,019 (edited by Grizzlor 2024-09-05 08:45:37)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

There's I read something like 175 polls on this race being taken across the country, and most of those are dog feces.  They have little to no scientific or academic basis, without even getting into the Blue or Red-tinged pollsters who are free to apply their biases.  I personally don't care for Nate Silver, and never have.  I felt his 538 garbage was essentially just that, and really have little faith in these polling predictive models.  They act as if they are superior, but they're really not.  Furthermore, one of the newer and "hotter" ones on the web is Poly-Market, a fly by night operation owned by billionaire Peter Thiel, yes the same tech bro who basically invented J.D. Vance, and supports Trump.  So when PolyMarket shows for Trump, I just roll my eyes.  Well guess who else is on Thiel's payroll these days?  That's right, Nate Silver, who was so good at his job that ABC fired him.  I'd rather hear from a Simon Rosenberg or a Karl Rove than these entities, at least they know politics.

PS: Allan Lichtman, as many suspected, announced that Kamala will win based on his "13 keys."  She's won 8 to Trump's 3, with two remaining undetermined.  He has been "correct" in nine of the last ten Presidential contests, going back to 1984.  To be fair, the majority of those were somewhat "settled" with clear favorites going in, and though he picked Gore in 2000, that one was as much of a tie as one could get, well, maybe before this year.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/pol … 082875007/

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I mean at the end of the day, it's all meaningless.  Polls have errors, and the models that are built are based on the erred polls.  Betting markets don't mean anything, as any sports fan will tell you.  Upsets happen all the time no matter how good Vegas does at creating betting lines.  Even when a game isn't against the spread, David beats Goliath in sports enough that it always needs to be considered.

It's going to be a close election that comes down to election day and a few thousand people in a few states.  A thousand different factors could affect the result, including weather and unpredictable human nonsense.

But for me, it's about vibes and confidence.  When I see that my team is favored to win a game, no matter how many times betting lines have been wrong, I feel better going into the game.  I don't feel cheated or angry if it goes the wrong way, but it just makes me feel better.  The idea that Harris is polling better makes me feel better.  The fact that these pollsters make millions of dollars to predict this stuff and get raked across the coals when they get it wrong makes me feel better about trusting them.

I've had so much existential dread about this stupid election that I just want to feel okay that a literal psychopath won't be running my country for another four years.  I know it's dumb and I know that it means nothing and I know that we aren't going to know anything until after November 3rd.  But if you think that's going to stop me, just start ignoring my dumb little posts big_smile

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well I fret that Harris has allowed a lot of the momentum to fade, as she and Walz have been campaigning but the country doesn't see them.  The staff is obviously full of Biden personnel who are antagonistic towards the press, and it's stupid.  She should be doing every celebrity podcast there is, there's plenty of softball ones for her to do.  Even if they don't want her on TV shows, which again, is short-sighted.  Harris is barely in the news highlights anymore.  They're rolling out a pro-small business economic plan this week.  Who's covering it?  You don't see anything, because he's not directly speaking to the press.

3,022 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2024-09-05 13:29:26)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor wrote:

Well I fret that Harris has allowed a lot of the momentum to fade, as she and Walz have been campaigning but the country doesn't see them.  The staff is obviously full of Biden personnel who are antagonistic towards the press, and it's stupid.  She should be doing every celebrity podcast there is, there's plenty of softball ones for her to do.  Even if they don't want her on TV shows, which again, is short-sighted.  Harris is barely in the news highlights anymore.  They're rolling out a pro-small business economic plan this week.  Who's covering it?  You don't see anything, because he's not directly speaking to the press.

I completely agree, but I also wonder if we're just not seeing it because she's not focusing on either of our states (rightly).  Our votes don't matter so our experience might be different than the experience of someone in one of the seven battlegrounds.

I am weirded out by her not doing more national stuff, but the national vote doesn't really matter.  If the stuff they're doing on the state level isn't working, that's more of a problem.  But if it's working, then less national stuff doesn't bother me.  Again we haven't had any quality state level polling (I don't know how that's possible - what are they doing?) in a long time so we don't really have any idea how her bus trip through Georgia impacted anything.

*******

This story is also not super important, but it's a nice indicator that Harris could/should win.  Lichtman uses different "keys" that have to be unlocked to see who the winner is.  He missed Bush/Gore (which was crazy close) and actually underestimated Trump in the popular vote in 2016.  It also doesn't mean anything, but it's another positive sign that she might be able to win.

https://news.yahoo.com/news/polling-exp … 48920.html

3,023 (edited by QuinnSlidr 2024-09-06 03:54:16)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

For anyone not paying attention over the last 24 hours...the DOJ just cracked down on two of some of the most well-known personalities amplifying Russian Election Disinformation Campaigns from the following folks:

Tim Pool
Benny Johnson

I would beware of Elon Musk too.

https://x.com/cwebbonline/status/1831684279233044507

https://i.postimg.cc/HnJPCPt8/image.png

https://i.postimg.cc/9QHgvbwz/image.png

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https://x.com/nickreeves9876/status/1831615664647274662

https://i.postimg.cc/CL9dYBwR/image.png

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

https://x.com/7Veritas4/status/1831658115621663055

https://i.postimg.cc/DfJ8NPK9/image.png

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

This is one of the reasons why we need Harris to win.  The DoJ will stop investigating all of this stuff.  We need to maintain a "neutral" justice department (I'm sure it's not purely neutral but it needs to be as neutral as it has been in the past).