Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I'm seriously considering using my vote to express how much of a joke this election is....and voting for a dead gorilla.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/4OMhOM7E7TA/maxresdefault.jpg

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I'm seriously considering using my vote to express how much of a joke this election is....and voting for a dead gorilla.  Or maybe I'll vote for Quinn Mallory.

The fact that we can't even get good third party candidates makes me think we need to tear the whole presidential process down and start over.  No one good wants the job.  Just moron after moron after moron.

            INT. APARTMENT - AFTERNOON

            Ib goes to his door and open it to find himself staring at
            the face of Jerry O'Connell. Instantly enraged, Ib makes a
            fist and prepares to swing --

                                     IB
                         You treacherous, ungrateful,
                         backstabbing piece of --

                                     QUINN
                         Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's me!

                                     IB
                         Oh. Quinn.
                               (instantly relaxing)
                         So sorry. Thought you were the other
                         guy.

                                     QUINN
                         This has been happening all day. On
                         the flight to get here, women kept
                         throwing drinks in my face. At the
                         airport, this one lady punched me in
                         the stomach. She looked like Sabrina
                         the Teenaged Witch.

                                     IB
                         Melissa Joan Hart! So awesome! D'you
                         think she's in town for a show and
                         that is not what's important right
                         now! Come in, come in -- what can I
                         do for you?

                                     QUINN
                         Well, I saw on the Sliders.tv message
                         board that your friend Slider_Quinn21
                         is so depressed about the election
                         that he's thinking of writing "Quinn
                         Mallory" on his ballot. Please ask
                         him not to do that.

                                     IB
                         He's got no good options, Q-Ball!
                         We're lucky he's not voting for
                         Donald Trump; we can't ask him to
                         vote for Hillary Clinton if he
                         doesn't support her --

                                     QUINN
                         I understand the burden in a
                         democratic process where there's no
                         good choices in front of you. I have
                         two responses for him.

                                     IB
                         Two? Why two?

                                     QUINN
                         The first: due to the Electoral
                         Colleges and rampant gerrymandering,
                         he could fairly consider the act of
                         voting meaningless since across 535
                         congregational districts, only 18 are
                         swing jurisdictions.

                                     IB
                         Ohhhh, Americans.

                                     QUINN
                         Slider_Quinn21 could reasonably stay
                         home and keep out of it. However,
                         following this line of thinking, the
                         Professor would say that any
                         abstinence from the electoral
                         procedure is an abdication of one's
                         entitlement to lamentation with
                         regards to political undertaking.

                                     IB
                         Huh?

                                     QUINN
                         If he doesn't vote, he can't
                         complain.

                                     IB
                         You realize, you just basically said
                         nothing whatsoever.

                                     QUINN
                         So if we discard the option of not
                         participating, your friend's best
                         route for participating without
                         supporting candidates he doesn't
                         agree with is to vote for whichever
                         of the six is least likely to win.

                                     IB
                         The dude with the tiger zoo? The dude
                         with the tiger zoo!

                                     QUINN
                         Yes. The dude with the tiger zoo. Go
                         with Joe Exotic. Then your friend has
                         done his due diligence and I'll
                         respect him.

            This has been a public service announcement for
            Slider_Quinn21 paid for by the What Would Quinn Mallory Do
            Campaign.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I think that if someone who was well known enough decided to drop the Republican or Democrat title and run with a different party, they could give that party a chance of being a player in a presidential election. The ting is, it would have to be someone who could possibly win the nomination with the repubs or dems, so it doesn't look like an act of desperation.

There are few people who could actually pull that off, but I'm hopeful that it can happen someday. Y'know, maybe we should do away with the party titles all together and let people fight to get on the ballot on their own merits, without an R or D after their name.



Okay, back to voter fraud...

It happens. We've seen it happen in elections for senators, etc. It's pretty much known that there is corruption of the system, but there isn't a lot that can be done about fraudulent votes once they're cast. I think that it's more likely that you could go after an organization that brings in fraudulent voters, and that should happen.

All it would take to do major damage to an election is to add a few thousand votes to areas that are very close. Imagine having six hundred extra votes in Florida during the 2000 election. We'd have an entirely different history right now. And even if the attempts to influence the election with fraudulent votes doesn't work, those people who commit that crime or organize that crime should be held accountable. That is not a small crime.

I've yet to see evidence that O'Keefe fakes his videos. Clearly, you can say that he is biased in which stories he pursues, but if the implication is that he is editing these videos to be something that they aren't, or to make people say things that they aren't, there is no evidence to support that. And again I have to say that it's incredibly unusual for people to complain about video reports being edited, since every news report that we see on TV is highly edited.  I've seen major news outlets editing around comments that politicians have made, or framing a shot to make a tiny protest look like a huge mob, and that's still seen as "respectable" journalism.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of the media lying to us. If there is evidence of O'Keefe fabricating stories, I want to see it. Until that happens, I don't see how his investigations can be written off. If these recent videos are lies, why are people being fired or stepping down from their positions?

You can find countless websites that say that O'Keefe is a con man or whatever (all with articles highlighting Hillary's crimes, I'm sure), but where is the evidence? What are they basing it on? Just the fact that his reports are edited in the same fashion as pretty much every single news reports on television or on the internet? Is there some sort of proof that his reporting is more fraudulent than any of the "legitimate" news sources? Or are they just bashing the man who is going after liberal organizations and causes? Do they hold more liberal outlets to similar standards? Did they demand to get the full recording of the Trump video/audio? Do they hold debate moderators accountable when they provide answers for the candidates who can't seem to find answers for themselves?

I'm all for asking questions. I want as much information as possible. But unless those websites are just as interested in exposing the dishonesty of the mainstream media, I don't see how they can hold a special grudge against Project Veritas, which is at least up-front with their political leanings.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Is there voter fraud? I do think so, but is it possible to organize it effectively to impact a US Presidential election in the fashion that it could make a difference? Not in the ways O'Keefe claims. The country's too big and spread out; O'Keefe's described techniques for rigging may seem simple (bus people around to vote under false identities) but would be so convoluted to set up that you couldn't possibly get the number of false identities and willing participants and successful outcomes in place to pull it off at any significant scale. The reports of actual, verified voter fraud show it to be incredibly minute and irrelevant although no less an attack on liberty and freedom.

As for O'Keefe, his 'work' on Shirley Sharrod and Juan Carlos Vera where he edited their footage to make them seem racist and to be a human trafficker -- his fraud is a matter of public record. In the case of Sharrod, she was fired from her job at the US Department of Agriculture. Then the videos were reviewed in full and her 'racism' was shown to be her describing attitudes she didn't agree with. She received a full apology from the US Government and the offer of a new position. With Vera, police officers had records showing that he immediately called the authorities to report potential human trafficking. He sued O'Keefe and O'Keefe paid out $100,000. You can Google it yourself and it's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to O'Keefe being completely dishonest and untrustworthy. I would sooner trust pilight to give me constructive criticism.

Currently, there is no proof that his latest work is fraudulent, but considering he's never produced anything that wasn't, he has accumulated sufficient reason to dismiss his material given his past history.

I don't really have the time to gather and present further research to you to bolster what is a known, proven, and very validated set of criticisms against O'Keefe and his 'journalistic' practices; it's all out there on the internet anyway, Informant. If you don't agree with the truckload of courtcases and wrongful firings where O'Keefe's lies were later exposed, you and I will simply have to do what we usually do -- shake hands, agree to disagree and move on to this week's ARROW.

405 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2016-10-21 12:14:31)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:

            INT. APARTMENT - AFTERNOON

            Ib goes to his door and open it to find himself staring at
            the face of Jerry O'Connell. Instantly enraged, Ib makes a
            fist and prepares to swing --

                                     IB
                         You treacherous, ungrateful,
                         backstabbing piece of --

                                     QUINN
                         Whoa, whoa, whoa! It's me!

                                     IB
                         Oh. Quinn.
                               (instantly relaxing)
                         So sorry. Thought you were the other
                         guy.

                                     QUINN
                         This has been happening all day. On
                         the flight to get here, women kept
                         throwing drinks in my face. At the
                         airport, this one lady punched me in
                         the stomach. She looked like Sabrina
                         the Teenaged Witch.

                                     IB
                         Melissa Joan Hart! So awesome! D'you
                         think she's in town for a show and
                         that is not what's important right
                         now! Come in, come in -- what can I
                         do for you?

                                     QUINN
                         Well, I saw on the Sliders.tv message
                         board that your friend Slider_Quinn21
                         is so depressed about the election
                         that he's thinking of writing "Quinn
                         Mallory" on his ballot. Please ask
                         him not to do that.

                                     IB
                         He's got no good options, Q-Ball!
                         We're lucky he's not voting for
                         Donald Trump; we can't ask him to
                         vote for Hillary Clinton if he
                         doesn't support her --

                                     QUINN
                         I understand the burden in a
                         democratic process where there's no
                         good choices in front of you. I have
                         two responses for him.

                                     IB
                         Two? Why two?

                                     QUINN
                         The first: due to the Electoral
                         Colleges and rampant gerrymandering,
                         he could fairly consider the act of
                         voting meaningless since across 535
                         congregational districts, only 18 are
                         swing jurisdictions.

                                     IB
                         Ohhhh, Americans.

                                     QUINN
                         Slider_Quinn21 could reasonably stay
                         home and keep out of it. However,
                         following this line of thinking, the
                         Professor would say that any
                         abstinence from the electoral
                         procedure is an abdication of one's
                         entitlement to lamentation with
                         regards to political undertaking.

                                     IB
                         Huh?

                                     QUINN
                         If he doesn't vote, he can't
                         complain.

                                     IB
                         You realize, you just basically said
                         nothing whatsoever.

                                     QUINN
                         So if we discard the option of not
                         participating, your friend's best
                         route for participating without
                         supporting candidates he doesn't
                         agree with is to vote for whichever
                         of the six is least likely to win.

                                     IB
                         The dude with the tiger zoo? The dude
                         with the tiger zoo!

                                     QUINN
                         Yes. The dude with the tiger zoo. Go
                         with Joe Exotic. Then your friend has
                         done his due diligence and I'll
                         respect him.

            This has been a public service announcement for
            Slider_Quinn21 paid for by the What Would Quinn Mallory Do
            Campaign.

Is it weird that this was strangely convincing?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:

As for O'Keefe, his 'work' on Shirley Sharrod and Juan Carlos Vera where he edited their footage to make them seem racist and to be a human trafficker -- his fraud is a matter of public record. In the case of Sharrod, she was fired from her job at the US Department of Agriculture. Then the videos were reviewed in full and her 'racism' was shown to be her describing attitudes she didn't agree with. She received a full apology from the US Government and the offer of a new position. With Vera, police officers had records showing that he immediately called the authorities to report potential human trafficking. He sued O'Keefe and O'Keefe paid out $100,000. You can Google it yourself and it's just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to O'Keefe being completely dishonest and untrustworthy. I would sooner trust pilight to give me constructive criticism.

The Shirley Sherrod video was Breitbart.com, not an O'Keefe investigation. Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible since I'm sleep deprived. If I am missing something, please let me know.

Juan Carlos Vera did call (his cousin) a police detective to discuss the incident. I don't know if a police report was actually filed. If there was, I can't find it. Regardless, the settlement reached was not about the editing of the video or the smearing of any character, it was a case of recording without consent.  If action was taken to investigate this matter, there was no way of knowing until after the video was uploaded. There was no indication that I'm aware of to suggest that Vera attempted to break off the conversation or get rid of O'Keefe as soon as he came in. In fact, he claims to have played along with the whole routine... which begs the question of how O'Keefe was deceiving anyone when the man that people claim we were deceived about was going along with the whole thing.



Currently, there is no proof that his latest work is fraudulent, but considering he's never produced anything that wasn't, he has accumulated sufficient reason to dismiss his material given his past history.

Again, even his video with Juan Carlos Vera was not fraudulent. At best, it was a wacky Three's Company scenario, wherein both parties were trying to catch the other party and it was all a wacky misunderstanding. Everyone probably would have laughed it off... except, O'Keefe did record the man without consent. That does not make the video a fake, or give O'Keefe a history of faking videos. It gives him a history if violating the California law about recording people without consent. For what it's worth, he could do that where I life, no problem. There would have been no lawsuit or settlement if it had been done here.


I don't really have the time to gather and present further research to you to bolster what is a known, proven, and very validated set of criticisms against O'Keefe and his 'journalistic' practices; it's all out there on the internet anyway, Informant. If you don't agree with the truckload of courtcases and wrongful firings where O'Keefe's lies were later exposed, you and I will simply have to do what we usually do -- shake hands, agree to disagree and move on to this week's ARROW.

This season really is better than those seasons which shall not be spoken of. I mean, they're not absolutely perfect, but the episodes are much better. I still don't like the John Jr. thing though.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

O'Keefe was Breitbart's protege in this sort of 'journalism' and he and Breitbart were partners in the Sherrod affair, having been working together since 2009.

As for Vera, he was following the appropriate procedures for dealing with someone proposing human trafficking, which O'Keefe knew full well. If someone comes into your office and wants you to help them sell people into slavery, you play along, collect every piece of info you can, then call the cops, which Vera did. O'Keefe knew full well that he was misrepresenting a man doing exactly what anyone should do in that situation. O'Keefe's other big 'hit' is fraudulent NPR recordings where he re-edited conversations to make it seem like they were accepting money from terrorist organizations.

Unlike previous endeavours, however, this time, James O'Keefe is point blank refusing to release the unedited footage and recordings. This alone should be enough to instantly discredit him even more than he's already been discredited; he doesn't want scrutiny of his evidence, meaning his evidence is bogus.

Anyone who lends credence to James O'Keefe's claims and assertions is doing so not because he's in any way credible or trustworthy, but because he's telling them something they want to hear, something they want to believe so badly that they'll set aside any questions of his ridiculous past and his inane methods and his manipulative editing in order to believe what they've decided to believe. It's, admittedly, the same motivations that lead to people seeing Hillary Clinton as an unquestionable icon of feminism, achievement and freedom.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I think I'm going to back out of this area of discussion now because pointing out to someone that James O'Keefe is a fraud and a liar is like pointing out to them that autism isn't caused by vaccines. It's simply not going to go anywhere; our positions are what they are.

**

I'm glad Slider_Quinn21 appreciated Quinn wading into politics. I think what really works about Quinn's opinion and why I like his character so much -- Quinn would never tell you who to vote for, he would only give you some thoughts as to a strategy on how to make up your own mind.

409 (edited by Informant 2016-10-21 17:27:21)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Not true. I don't have any loyalty to O'Keefe or anything he has done. We are discussing facts here. Breitbart released the Sherrod video. It was not O'Keefe. You are misrepresenting this situation in order to prove a point, and then accusing me of blindly following O'Keefe because he says what I want to hear. I don't know if you are simply remembering this wrong or you're looking at a website for details, but this is false.

So we are saying that O'Keefe took video of a man who was going along with the human trafficking plan, showed the video of exactly what that man was doing, and he is still a fraud because the man who was trying to convince him that he was helping with the human trafficking plan succeeded in making him believe that he was helping with the human trafficking plan? What evidence is there to suggest that O'Keefe had any knowledge of any police report or investigation prior to the video's release? For that matter, is there any record of a police report?

I looked up the NPR report on the NPR situation:
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ … eral-funds

That report links to the full two-hour recording (which I can't open... Possibly because I'm on a phone). It also has a statement from the man involved, apologizing for what he said in that recording.

As far as I can tell, the Project Veritas headline on those recordings is about media bias, not collusion with terrorists.

http://projectveritas.com/npr-videos/

At different points over the years, I have enjoyed the works of many people. Political journalists, writers, directors, actors, whatever. I have always enjoyed them right up the the point where they do something to rub me the wrong way, and then I let it be known that I'm no longer a fan. Usually loudly and repeatedly. I do not follow anyone blindly. We can discuss these things as much as you'd like. Maybe you'll even change my opinion. But please don't accuse me of being a mindless follower. I am not one. Ever.



EDIT --

Just because I noticed your other post after I clicked "submit"...

The thing is, I looked at your examples from the mindset of "maybe there is something that I didn't know" and thought that I'd change my mind about Project Veritas once I looked into it. However, I looked into it and looked at the facts involved. Not my opinion or my feelings, but facts.

FACT: Shirley Sherrod was not O'Keefe or Project Veritas.

FACT: The lawsuit settled was about recording without consent. There is no claim that O'Keefe misrepresented what was on the video or edited it to make it appear that it was anything other than what it was.

FACT: The NPR recordings did in fact show bias against the Tea Party, which the man accused even apologized for. And the full recording was released. If their edited report was misleading, they appear to have given everyone the chance to decide for themselves.

I don't see how any of this makes me comparable to an anti-vaxxer who is ignoring facts and data. If there is some evidence that I don't have, I'd love to see it. Until then, I simply am not the one who seems to be basing my opinions on feelings or bias.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant, I apologize. I've made a mistake. James O'Keefe was a Breitbart employee and the Vera 'scandal' was published on Breitbart in 2009. And yes, they were fraudulent -- O'Keefe intercut footage of himself shot after his conversation with Vera in which O'Keefe dressed up in an absurd outfit and asked more explicitly criminal questions in order to make Vera's responses look more disturbing, and then the intercut footage was presented as the actual conversation on the website.

The Shirley Sherrod video went on Brietbart in 2010 and at the time, most critics including myself thought they were more of James O'Keefe's manipulative editing as it fit his style entirely by choosing select portions of dialogue, intercutting in order to manipulate the conversation and to make someone look bad. The majority of internet coverage at the time accredited the phony editing to O'Keefe as he seemed to be the go-to person for Breitbart's smear videos -- but upon review today, this was never verified and O'Keefe denies he was involved, so it's unreasonable to put this on his list.

However... I'm still going to have to point to the faked Vera videos, the doctored NPR interviews (which were debunked as manipulatively edited and contextualized once full versions were reviewed), an edited video that shows an actor easily scamming a Maine Medicaid office (the full version shows the actor failed to do so), a video of environmentalists talking about other organizations they work with adjusted with voiceover to claim all these mentioned organizations take payoffs from oil companies -- the man is simply a scam artist and it's beyond me how despite a long history of deception, he isn't instantly dismissed. This is what he does. He lures people, films them saying lots of things, edits material into something incriminating and presents a smoking gun that's inevitably exposed as a fake.

But I apologize for the Sherrod error. Do I think O'Keefe made it? Yes, but I mis-remembered this as a fact when it's simply a suspicion. Thank you for the correction. But I really don't think this man is your conservative knight in armour. You can do better. I'm going to go back to the ARROW thread now. Best of luck on November 8.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

James O'Keefe was a Breitbart employee and the Vera 'scandal' was published on Breitbart in 2009. And yes, they were fraudulent -- O'Keefe intercut footage of himself shot after his conversation with Vera in which O'Keefe dressed up in an absurd outfit and asked more explicitly criminal questions in order to make Vera's responses look more disturbing, and then the intercut footage was presented as the actual conversation on the website.

Wait... That didn't happen at all. The intro to the videos had the wacky pimp outfit and theme song. The videos themselves had normal clothes, and no intercut footage of questions being asked (O'Keefe was wearing the camera, it seems)

The videos show Vera either helping this couple, or pretending to help them. Whichever story you believe to be true, they accurately portray what happened there that day. Now, if a police report was filed or an investigation was started, that should be added to the story, to show that Vera isn't as bad as he looks. But as I said, I can't find evidence of a police report or an investigation. Therefore, there is nothing to back up the claim of his going to the police (it should be noted that he mentions asking his cop relative about the matter in the video, so simply discussing it with his cop cousin doesn't necessarily mean that he was looking to make a bust). Anyway, I don't agree that the video can be called "faked" either way.

But yeah, this conversation isn't getting us very far. It is fine for you to look at the videos and read the reports and feel however you feel about them. I would just appreciate it if you didn't imply that what you're saying is absolute, indisputable fact and anyone who disagrees is a wacko. I'm not basing my opinions on how I feel, I'm basing them on the evidence in front of me.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Oh GOD. Is this my life now? Spending stupid amounts of time talking about ****ing James O'Keefe? I want to die.

The Attorney General confirmed that Vera contacted the police in their investigation and report with their findings from reviewing the full, unedited footage. The full Vera videos show Vera asking for O'Keefe's contact information, times, dates, locations and all of O'Keefe's plans for human trafficking, showing him gathering as much information as possible -- but O'Keefe cut all that in his video so that he could emphasize Vera's apparent willingness to assist in slavery. In other ACORN interviews, O'Keefe and Gilles were met with either information-gathering tactics, stalling, referring them to victims groups and outright refusals of involvement -- all of which would have made it blindingly clear to O'Keefe that ACORN wasn't going to help human traffickers. Instead. O'Keefe edited his footage to present the opposite. In one case an ACORN employee encouraging someone to keep trying to find a place to live was re-positioned as encouragement for creating a human smuggling ring.

O'Keefe's intro is deliberately placed to mislead the viewer to think he wore the fur coat and absurd outfit into ACORN's offices. It's meant to mislead. O'Keefe omitting any footage where ACORN workers offered Gilles help or declared they would not help is again a deceit designed to smear ACORN regardless of truth or facts.

There is no sensible argument to be made that O'Keefe genuinely thought ACORN was a human trafficking operation or that O'Keefe's recontextualizing wasn't purposely designed to fool the audience, and this approach is to be found in all his subsequent work. There's his Medicaid 'interviews' where the edited videos show his trained monkeys successfully scamming for medical care -- while the full footage shows them being asked to leave.

There's the environmentalist groups where O'Keefe's voiceover describes how these groups all accept money from fossil fuel companies and then we hear environmentalist administrators going through a list of all the organizations that take such donations -- except the full footage makes it clear they're just listing off other environmentalist groups they worth with. The NPR interviews show an NPR exec declaring Republicans racist when the full version has the man talking about his Republican heritage, his own conservatism and how he had a conversation with two Republicans and he recounts their reasons for why they voted Obama -- which O'Keefe re-edited to make it seem like this was the the man's own viewpoint.

I've been through the O'Keefe spin-cycle of scandal too many times, I would not trust this man to tell me that water is wet.

Ugh. Talking about O'Keefe makes me sick. This is his Wikipedia Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_O%27Keefe

Believe what you want. I'm going to go take a long shower to wash O'Keefe off me.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah, I'm not going to continue on this. It's getting us nowhere. You have your opinion about O'Keefe, and that's fine. You can simply not like his methods or believe that his open political leanings invalidate his work. That's fine. But some of what you've read about him or his work does not accurately represent what actually happened or what is in the videos. So you should shy away from using those sources for your debate points.

I did skim through the link you sent, and again, I do think that if Vera handled the situation with the police, it should be noted on the video's website. The video is not fraudulent as originally released, but it should be amended with an update with relevant information. But as with any news report, you always have to do extra homework to find all of the things that you aren't being told. This is why I hate journalists. O'Keefe is no worse than anyone else, he's just not entirely better.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

lol

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/a … ers-940681

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Bad voting booth calibration leads to Republican votes turning Democrat in Illinois:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/10 … ounty.html

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

This by far the best predictor of who will win Tuesday:

http://www.gettyimages.com/detail/news- … d620802860

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

We're so close now! Predictions anyone?

The next four years will either be a joke or a disaster on a scale that we never imagined possible.

The only up side is that the Obamas will be gone. I can't stand them.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

We're so close now! Predictions anyone?

Trump will win the vote, but Hillary will win the election.  We'll all lose to Russia who will finally get tired of being blamed for stuff they didn't do.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Wolverines!

Oh. Was I too early?

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Clinton will win big

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Hillary will win.  She will give this big empowering speech where she pretends to be humble with that big stupid smile of hers.  I will vomit.  Trump will concede but act all smug like he won.  And the only violence will be some dude in Pennsylvania throwing a Molotov Cocktail.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Kang and Kodos will be revealed to have taken Trump and Hillary's places months ago, but due to the fact that it's a two party system one of them must win!

Rigellian enslavement for all!

--Chaser9

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I like that Chaser9 is giving us a more optimistic view of things. smile


Yeah, Hillary will probably win. It boggles my mind though. So much information is out there showing that she is not only incapable of doing the job, but that she is a truly, truly horrible human being. Yet, when you reference the decades of information available, people act like you're talking about UFO conspiracies. They even have a line along the lines of "Forty years of investigations have found NOTHING. She is the most vetted and cleanest candidate in history" which makes me want to puke.

I don't mind people disagreeing with me, but there's a difference between disagreement and delusion. Hillary Clinton is a psychopath.

Donald Trump isn't much better, but he's a little bit better. It's a low bar.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm the exact opposite of Informant.  Clinton is very bad, but Trump is even worse.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

But how many actual human bodies does he have in his wake? How many times has he personally put national security at risk and then proven that he simply doesn't care about it? Donald Trump is disgusting and arrogant, and a jerk (I think the word "bully" should be reserved for schoolyards). You can say a lot of bad things about him and I probably wouldn't disagree. But Hillary Clinton has never exhibited an ounce of basic humanity. No empathy or sympathy, no moral compass, basic sense of right and wrong. She quite literally appears to be a psychopath, who is now displaying signs of some sort of neurological issues.

I've heard people who know Donald Trump say good things about him. I cannot recall anyone ever having one positive thing to say about Hillary as a person. And obviously I can't base my vote on which person I like as a human being, since they both fail, but Hillary has never been anything but dangerously corrupt. Is there anything to suggest that she would care if a nuke went off in one of the middle states?

And all of that is just based on her political career. Add into that her victimizing women who were already victims of her rapist husband.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Trump has never been in a position to make a life-or-death decision.  He's 70 years old and has never done anything for anyone but himself.  There's no indication that he has ever cared anything about anything south of 42nd Street.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

After a very quick search:

http://www.jta.org/1988/07/20/archive/o … ycoons-jet

http://people.com/celebrity/donald-trum … er-hudson/

http://www.nytimes.com/1986/09/03/us/tr … -farm.html

http://ijr.com/2015/08/399969-greta-van … lly-freed/

Donald Trump is a strange person. He is a legitimate d-bag, with a foul mouth and he is quite possibly insane. However, I've heard people who have worked for him say nice things about him and his family. I've heard stories of his doing good over the years. That is why I wouldn't call him a psychopath.

With Hillary, I don't think I've ever heard a good thing about her. Since the 90's, her security people seem to universally hate working around her because she treats them like crap. Ive never heard of her being kind or even very polite. I've never seen a sign that she cares about any other human being on Earth. Please do correct me if I'm wrong about that.

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428 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2016-11-06 19:19:40)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

I've never seen a sign that she cares about any other human being on Earth. Please do correct me if I'm wrong about that.

I had a family member who fell into her at an event. She was nice about it. I had a friend who worked in DC (as a lowly intern). She was always nice to him. I have another friend/acquaintance who is part of her core team. I really don't think he'd be involved if she was that god awful. 

There's also this: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CwHLajWWgAQy-XK.jpg:large

Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 4:39 PM

To: Verveer, Melanne S

Subject: Noori All

Do you recall Noori Ali(?), the ten year old Yemeni girl who got herself divorced? I met her at the Glamour awards last year. There was a CNN story last few days about how unhappy she is, still living at home, not attending school and quite angry that her life is not better. Is there any way we can help her? Could we get her to the US for counselling and education?


Here's her requesting a human rights report on women in Afghanistan. And saying things like please and thank you to a subordinate (this isn't common of all high ranking folks in my experience). https://wikileaks.org/clinton-emails/emailid/703

You may also want to check this out (though the author is admittedly biased):
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2 … in-08.html


Most of all—and you hear this all the time from people who’ve worked for her—Hillary Clinton is uncommonly warm and thoughtful. She surprises with birthday cakes. She calls when a grandparent passes away. She once rearranged her entire campaign schedule so a staffer could attend her daughter’s preschool graduation. Her husband charms by talking to you; Hillary does it by listening to you—not in a head-nodding, politician way; in a real person way.

This same story has repeated itself throughout Clinton’s career: those who initially view her as distrustful and divisive from afar find her genuine and cooperative in person. It was the case with voters in New York, Republicans in the Senate, Obama people in the White House, and heads of state all over the world. There’s a reason being America’s chief diplomat was the specific job Obama asked Hillary to do—she has the perfect personality for it.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm going to be slightly serious for a moment.

I was born in Arkansas and I have lived here all my life.  When I was growing up Bill Clinton was Governor.

Most people my age or older will tell you that they wouldn't vote for the Clintons for anything.  I remember when Bill won the Presidential election.   I was in High School and we were at a play practice.  I remember all of us, young adults between the ages of 15 and 18, being so angry that the American people had elected him.  I figure I'll be having that same feeling in a few days.

I truly believe Hillary is evil and would rather take the chance with the devil I don't know than the devil I do, but we live in a democracy and that's a decision every voter has to make on their own.

So America will get what it deserves either way.

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

--Chaser9

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

At this point nothing short of a coup, or intervention from God will save America from Hillary and the globalists. Secession should even be an option.

slidecage.com
Twitter @slidersfanblog
Instagram slidersfanblog

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

On a related note:
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/ … 7841451008

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

On a related note:
https://twitter.com/mitchellvii/status/ … 7841451008

Well, it can't be the George Romero universe.  The zombies would be starved; very few brains left to eat out there.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

chaser9 wrote:

Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos.

Me too.

I think Hillary is just short of evil.  I think she's power-hungry, and I think she'd do anything to get elected.  Lie, cheat, steal, kill.  If something is in her way, she's shown no hesitation in destroying it.  I'm sure she has her good moments, but I'm sure she does that kind of thing every once in a while so that people will have something nice to say about her.  Because I think every move she makes it calculated.  Everything she does is for a reason.  She is human so sometimes she makes mistakes, but she's smart enough with smart enough people surrounding her to make sure that she's never close enough to anything illegal to get tapped.

What's funny is the idea that it's a republican witch hunt.  That she gets accused of all kinds of silly stuff she didn't do.  And yet it's just the Clintons that it happens to.  Not the Gores.  Not the Obamas.  Not the Bidens.  Or the Reids.  Not the Kerrys or the Liebermans.  Or the Pelosis.  Nothing about Bernie or Elizabeth Warren.  If republicans were going to plant fake stories and chase conspiracies, wouldn't they spread it around a little?  No.  Because there's always smoke surrounding the Clintons, and they're just smart enough to let someone else drop the match.

They've gotten rich off public service.  Gotten rich off helping people with their charity.  And we're just going to let them back into the White House.  It's just sickening.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan, a lot of the stuff you listed can't really be used to turn her into a human being. The interesting example was the email about the kid, but given her history, I would have to make sure that it wasn't part of some longer email chain about ways to improve her public image or whatever. I'm still not convinced that she really has a capacity to care about other people.

The interesting thing in this discussion is the element of manners. "Please" and "Thank you", and all of that sort of pleasant stuff is where Hillary may have something that Trump doesn't. He has no manners or filter at all, while I think that Hillary is more calculated and filtered. Evil, but with the ability to look otherwise. smile

Still, if she's going to be President (gag), I hope that I'm wrong and there is a shred of humanity somewhere deep down inside of her. A piece which regrets having to get a child molester off on a technicality, despite her laughing at the story years later. A piece of her that feels sick when she thinks about what her husband has done to women, and what she has done to keep those women quiet. A piece of her who gives a thought to Benghazi every once in a while, when she's all alone, and has to fight back the urge to tear up.

Hell, I hope that she is capable of holding her grandchild and feeling a basic, primal connection.

None of us win if I'm right and Hillary Clinton is incapable of feeling any of those things. So I hope that I am wrong, and I hope that once she achieves her life's mission of getting into that office, that humanity can see the light of day. If not, no good will come of this. People will suffer and die. The best we can hope for is that whatever illness she has progresses to the point where she becomes little more than a medicated puppet, surrounded by more competent people who are capable of handling things.

Then again, look at who she surrounds herself with... There may not be much hope there either.

Sigh.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Problem is sure people despise Hillary, but obviously too damn DUMB to not be duped by an ego-maniac in Donald Trump.  Sorry, they're that stupid, as Donald himself joked last winter.  "How stupid are the people of Iowa?"  Pretty dumb.  John Kasich would have won this thing by 10 points.  But because he behaved like an intelligent, sensible, if "dull" person, they ignored him.  The Breibart's and the Drudge's have done nothing but poison the electorate.  They've made reasonable, experienced, rational public officials with a conservative lean afraid for their lives.  How many instances?  Trump went after hispanics, POW's, women, Muslims, our NATO allies.  He went after Republicans.  He torched the Bush family.  He praised Vladimir Putin.  At NO point did the Republican side check him.  He grabbed some pussy alright, he grabbed a party of pussies and tossed them into the garbage shoot. 

So yeah, Hillary will win.  Frankly I don't want to hear the "evil" shit or whatever.   Evil.  Give me a break.  Trump's buddy Putin has actually had opposition "disappeared."  That guy is "evil."  The turd who runs Turkey, he could be called evil.  The maniac in North Korea, evil.  Clinton has raised money, she and her operation have put in tremendous amounts of work on the ground.  I worked briefly in politics, there's still nothing more important than a good ground game.  She might be over-ambitious, but evil?  Donald Trump is a loud mouth bully who has plunged political discourse, civility, and public service into the abyss.  Americans get exactly what they ask for.  They were too afraid to back the "socialist" Bernie Sanders.  They were too afraid to back centrists such as Kasich.  Candidates with far more respect than the current two. 

The Obama's have ZERO scandals after 8 years.  They've represented the American people well.  His popularity is well earned.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

The interesting example was the email about the kid, but given her history, I would have to make sure that it wasn't part of some longer email chain about ways to improve her public image or whatever.

I believe this is the full thread (starts at the bottom): https://foia.state.gov/searchapp/DOCUME … lp00000618

437 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2016-11-06 22:54:59)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor wrote:

The Obama's have ZERO scandals after 8 years.  They've represented the American people well.  His popularity is well earned.

That's exactly my point.  If Hillary is clean and Republicans are just making stuff up to soil her image, why aren't they doing so for the Obamas?  If they're just going to make stuff up, why not attack the current administration?

Probably because the Clintons are *much* dirtier than the Obamas.  And Barack Obama is a *much* more sensible president than Hillary will be.  She's going to screw up the economy, make Obamacare so much worse, and make the Middle East situation a lot more dangerous.  Hillary will tarnish or destroy every bit of Obama's legacy, which is ironic since he's basically going to win the election for her.  Without the president, there's virtually no way she could've gotten the black vote.  No one likes her, and they just would've stayed home.  The only reason they're voting now is because Obama is literally begging them to do so.

They interviewed a bunch of people at the Jay-Z/Beyonce concert for Hillary.  Almost all of them said they were there for Obama more than Hillary.  No one likes her, and yet people are voting for her.  I just don't understand voting for someone you hate, even if you hate the other guy more.  It just doesn't compute with me.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well... I think that there's plenty about Obama that could have pretty huge. The guy is not as clean as people make him out to be. The thing is, the media loves him and they love Michelle, so they would never push any story that might harm him. If the media won't push it, there is no scandal.

But yeah, I think Hillary's evil. And ignoring her long history of shady crap doesn't make it go away. Donald Trump may well get the world blown up. I don't like him. I think he probably does have some sort of mental disorder tied to his ego. I am not defending that in any way shape or form. I'm just saying that given the options, I would choose the ego-maniac over the brain damaged psychopath.

Kasich was never going to win. He never stood a chance in the primaries. It's not because he wasn't mean enough, it's because people generally didn't support his positions and he doesn't come across as a strong leader. Republicans have had to vote for McCain and Romney in the last two elections. Men who refused to dig in. At least one of them didn't even want to win, in my opinion. People who did not represent conservatives the way that conservatives want to be represented. That's why Trump go the nomination... not because everyone loves him, but because people are tired of candidates who won't state the obvious. There were far better candidates, most of whom could have beaten Hillary easily. The problem is that there were too many of them, and too many of them refused to drop out when it was obvious that they wouldn't win. Kasich included. If the stage hadn't had a dozen candidates standing on it, things would have turned out very differently.

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439 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2016-11-07 15:41:34)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Kasich would've beaten Hillary.  Whether or not they were true conservatives or whatever is irrelevant.  The only reason Trump is even close is because he's running against Hillary.  I think Ted Cruz would've beaten her too, although it would've been closer.  The only reason she's winning is because she hasn't had to sell herself.  She could've done the same strategy (negative 100% of the time), but I'm not sure it would've worked with Cruz.  It definitely wouldn't have worked with Bush or Rubio or any other boring Republican.

I don't even know if Bernie would've dropped out as early as he did if not for Trump.

Donald Trump is one of a handful of people (literally a handful) that Hillary can beat.  Which, again, makes me think the whole thing was orchestrated by the Clintons to get her this job.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

We're so close now! Predictions anyone?

I pick

Clinton 322-216
Popular vote 49-44


Senate 50-48-2 Democrat


House 231-204 Republican

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

After midnight. Election day.

I feel nauseous.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm so embarrassed to be an American today.  Hopefully that feeling will subside in the next four years.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I just returned from my performing my duty.  For my House Rep I did indeed vote for Harambe.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I wouldn't say that I'm embarrassed to be an American. I am just worried, disappointed and queasy. We're still a great country, and will he tomorrow, no matter who wins.

Obama did a lot of damage, but overall I don't think I'd rather live anywhere else.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Thinking about it tonight, I think Trump's success has been in identifying the weakness of the Republican party. The Republicans simply aren't good at communicating. McCain and Romney failed to speak up at all, whereas Trump will say anything that comes to mind and has no filter. The others failed to use social media to fan the fire, whereas Trump will post anything and has no filter.

It isn't that he is the smartest, or the best candidate. It's that he is actually recognizing the people who would be voting for him. The Republicans usually play games, try not to offend their opponents, and expect voters to follow them no matter what. People are sick of it.

Obama succeeded for kinda the same reason. He wasn't a good candidate or qualified, but he knew how to play the press and social media. He has slogans that meant nothing, but they looked cool on posters. He has more of a filter than Trump, but in terms of how they got here, they're not entirely different.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

O... M... G

We might get the Hillary concession speech that we've been waiting for.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

It's almost like Hillary Clinton is unpopular.  Who would've thought?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm still not convinced that she's out. They could always find a few hundred thousand votes from different states in a box somewhere.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

We've obviously slid into a parallel universe.  Right?

--Chaser9

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

MORE power Mister Mallory!!!

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

President-elect Trump.  Wow.

--Chaser9

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The Demos rigged the primaries to guarantee they would be running their weakest candidate, and last night they paid the price for it.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

pilight wrote:

The Demos rigged the primaries to guarantee they would be running their weakest candidate, and last night they paid the price for it.

So so true.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

We've elected a con man. Lord help us.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, America overwhelmingly hated their choice.  We all expected Hillary to win, and so we kept talking about all the Republicans that would've beaten her.  Conversely, a ton of Democrats could've stomped him.  But no one ran against Hillary in the primaries.  The fact that a septuagenarian Congressman that no one had ever heard of almost beat her should've sent alarms up and down.  Losing to Obama in 2008 was one thing - but Bernie had almost none of the qualities that Obama had, and he still had all the momentum and enthusiasm on his side.

If a real candidate had been allowed to run against her, they would've won.  And then beaten Trump. 

This election was ripe for the taking for both parties, and they both tried their best to lose it.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm currently turning to my SUPERMAN comics for comfort. Specifically, the comics where to Clark Kent's horror, Lex Luthor is elected president. Clark alternates between tolerating this with a solemn dignity to a bleak exasperation, at times contemplating superspeeding into the White House to disappear Luthor and generally accepting that Lex won the election and he has to respect that.

After a failed attempt to expose Luthor costs Clark his job at the Daily Planet, Clark forces himself to focus on his work -- saving people, watching Luthor -- and simply trying to keep a cool disposition and a calm head. Eventually, Luthor's desperation to best Superman is not sated by the presidency and Luthor becomes addicted to a steroid, psychologically implodes, and goes on a deranged rampage in a green and purple suit of armour, is caught on tape describing his war crimes and finally, Superman punches him out of the White House. Ultimately, Lex is a sick man, his own worst enemy and he self-destructs.

I'm not sure who Superman would be in the real-world scenario and I know it's just a comic book, but I'm trying to appreciate Clark's steadiness in troubled times when the US President is a cackling supervillain.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I was thinking of the Lex Luthor presidency too! This led me to wonder who Superman would vote for between Lex Luthor and Granny Goodness. But then, Donald Trump hasn't really reached supervillain status...

I've put too much thought into this.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I did not expect a bulletin board of "Sliders" fans to overwhelmingly support Trump. That's my biggest takeaway from all this.

Earth Prime | The Definitive Source for Sliders™

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I wouldn't say that I support Trump so much as I support his beating Hillary. smile

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Transmodiar wrote:

I did not expect a bulletin board of "Sliders" fans to overwhelmingly support Trump. That's my biggest takeaway from all this.

Does the board overwhelmingly support Trump?  I count like two posters who are in his camp.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant called Trump crazy. TF renounced the Republican party. The best Slider_Quinn21 had to say was that he was sure Trump would be impeached before he could do any actual damage. I described Trump as Lex Luthor. I think Informant is taking some grim pleasure in seeing Hillary Clinton his archnemesis defeated while being appalled by the Trump presidency. It's hard to say he supports one side or the other when he seems to have a fairly equal level of contempt for both.

462 (edited by Slider_Quinn21 2016-11-09 22:03:32)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I do not like Hillary.  I think she's dangerous, and I know her dangers (war in Syria, war with Russia, failed economic policies from her husband's era, etc).  Trump's dangers are either nebulous (since he has few concrete stances) or unrealistic (the Wall isn't happening, he's not going to knock down doors to deport people, he's not leaving NATO, etc).  I think Trump will either accomplish nothing (which, in this election, is fine) or will be stopped before he can do any damage. 

I did feel uneasy last night.  And today.  Ending Hillary's political career came at a cost.  But I don't think the cost is "America."

Trump sucks.  And will certainly be a bad president.  I did not vote for him.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

pilight wrote:

Does the board overwhelmingly support Trump?  I count like two posters who are in his camp.

When there are four regular posters here, even two sends quite a message. smile

Earth Prime | The Definitive Source for Sliders™

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm re-reading the President Lex Luthor storyline in SUPERMAN comics right now and I'm really heartened by how Clark Kent reacts: he politely congratulates Lex on his victory. In public, Superman maintains his composure. In private, Clark goes between deeply cynical depression and a seething rage, at times struggling to get out of bed in the morning, at others smashing his fists into the moon in frustration. Eventually, he composes both sides into a solemn dignity and a resolute defiance, knowing that respect doesn't preclude dissent and that it's simply a matter of time before a very sick-in-the-head man falls apart and leaves himself open to defeat.

465 (edited by pilight 2016-11-10 08:04:04)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Trump has outlined a plan for his first 100 days in office

https://assets.donaldjtrump.com/_landin … actv02.pdf

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I actually like a handful of things that he's proposing.  I love the idea of term limits for Congress, but I don't think Congress has any interest in cutting off the potential gravy train that they're eligible for.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

If he actually does that stuff, a lot of it could be promising. School choice, immigration laws being enforced, repealing Obamacare, term limits (!!!)...

The problem is, Republicans have been running on these promises for decades, but never deliver. They swear up and down during campaigns that they will reform this and that, and they sound like champions marching into battle. Then they get elected and turn to mush.

There is nothing stopping them this time, but I still doubt that they would have the balls to do this stuff. They will try to compromise and make deals, and we will end up right back where we started. Meanwhile, Democrats get power and go to town with it at every opportunity. This is why we're constantly taking one step forward and two steps back.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Trump wants to replace Obamacare with Universal Health Care.  He's said so repeatedly.  He said it on 60 Minutes.  He said it during the first Republican debate.  He said it in his book, The America We Deserve.  That's what you voted for if you voted for Trump.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well, that's the problem with Trump. He has supported pretty much everything at one point or another .

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

In the election fall out, I read something I hadn't seen before - a secession movement called Cascadia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascadi … _movement)

It would include a large swath of land including Oregon, Washington, Vancouver and even up into Alaska.  Wouldn't be a far stretch to extend it down to San Francisco for a Sliders world.  The most interesting aspect for that use would be the related idea of Ecotopia:

Ernest Callenbach's environmental Utopian novel Ecotopia (1975) follows an American reporter, William Weston, on his tour through a secretive republic (the former Washington, Oregon, and northern California) 20 years after their secession from the U.S. At first wary and uncomfortable, Weston is shown a society that has been centrally planned, scaled down, and readapted to fit within the constraints of environmental sustainability.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I've worked out a short SLIDERS story in which Quinn Mallory confronts Trump. This story would slot into the real world without any contradictions. However -- I'm not so great at pastiching Donald Trump's voice. A pastiche requires reviewing lots of footage of the person in order to capture their intonations and body language as well as their vocabulary and I can't bring myself to watch anymore of Trump than I already have. Would anyone be interested in taking the script (it's going to be about 15 - 20 pages) and rewriting all of Trump's dialogue into character?

It's just two scenes: one where Quinn, Wade, Rembrandt, Arturo, Maggie and Diana discuss what they're going to do about the presidency and one where Quinn has a conversation with Trump that doesn't go so great for Quinn, followed by a brief coda at the end.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

http://www.vox.com/first-person/2016/11 … nald-trump

I really love writing like this -- writing where the fictional world briefly intersects with real world elements. I think the main part is also making sure the fictional world can line up with reality just enough for the duration of the story.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

http://slidecage.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/makeslidersgreatagain.jpg
http://slidecage.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Torme_for_Sliders.jpg

slidecage.com
Twitter @slidersfanblog
Instagram slidersfanblog

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I have completed the Donald Trump meets Quinn Mallory screenplay and sent it off to someone for review. If they don't consider it a complete and total embarrassment, I will post it here. It's technically part of SLIDERS REBORN, but EarthPrime.com has very reasonably and understandably declined to post a Quinn meets Donald screenplay and that's pretty fair.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I have to say, the rioting and hatred and burning figures of Trump in effigy is really stupid. These same people who claim to be about unity and love and peace are turning into the ugliest, most hateful people on the internet. It isn't even about reality or politics, it is an epic tantrum, being thrown by a generation of spoiled brats who have never had interact with anyone who was truly different from them. They think this made them inclusive, but the truth is that they've all just been shielded by anyone who thought or believed differently.

I'm not talking about everyone who supported Hillary. There are some normal people who did that for some reason. I'm just talking about the fools who throw a riot every time the world doesn't work the way they want it to.

And they have the nerve to accuse everyone else of being hateful, racist, homophobic, etc. while beating people in the streets because they voted for the wrong guy.

I'm all for expressing frustration. Hell, I'd even be for a full blown uprising if the situation called for it. It's built into the Constitution for a reason. But this is just an epic childish tantrum.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm not sure what's worse, the supposedly liberal people protesting with fists and fire or the rash of bigoted and racially motivated assaults from people who feel emboldened by the white supremacist who is their new president. Plenty of bad to go around.

I do wish people wouldn't boil down Hillary Clinton's failure to being a woman. The truth is that the Democratic Party sold out to corporate interests a long time ago, they just had friendlier PR that presented a public facade of concern for equality, civil liberties and acceptance whereas a man like Donald Trump doesn't feel the need to conceal his contempt for minorities and women or his profiteering at the expense of the poor. And I do wish people wouldn't see Trump's ascendance as some sort of successful backlash against the system that system remains completely in power -- just on the other side.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Okay, I'm taking a deep breath and trying to suppress my gag reflex here, but I'm going to defend Trump... In a way.

The media is playing up the notion that we just voted for Hitler. He hates black people, Hispanic people, women, gays, Muslims... And it's bullshit. There is plenty, PLENTY, to not like about the man. We don't need to go making things up. He says that he wants to enforce immigration laws (as pretty much every country does) and this is turned into "He hates Mexicans!"
He wants to stop bringing in refugees from countries with ties to terrorism until we can be sure of who is getting in (many countries have had issues with these refugees causing disruptions) and that is turned into "He hates Muslims!"

The fact is, we live in a real world with grown-up issues to deal with. I've talked with Border Patrol agents who have first hand stories about the people who come across the border illegally, and the frustration of not being able to do the job that they were hired to do. It isn't racism. It is common sense... Distorted through the lens of a man with no verbal filters, who tends to exaggerate everything he says. And it has nothing to do with him hating immigrants either. People conflate legal and illegal immigration, but they're not the same thing. Not many people oppose normal, legal immigration.

He is not a white supremicist. Saying that he is one doesn't move the conversation to a rational and sensible place. Obama has more ties to racial extremism than Trump does.

The people protesting and burning things are scared of the Boogeyman, because that is what he is to them. They probably don't know his actual position on issues (and really, who does when he's been known to change them), or his actual words. They just know the venom that's been spewed by journalists, professors and the President himself. The truth about Trump is still not exactly good news for us, but he isn't going to be throwing chains back on black people or take away voting rights from women. Yes, these are actual claims that I've seen. Based on nothing but campfire stories, which have grown-ass adults hiding under their beds.


I remember when Obama was elected, saying to someone that I hoped I was wrong about him. That it didn't benefit anyone if I was right and he was as bad as I thought he would be. I was disappointed, and probably angry to some degree, but I was never ashamed of being American, I never called for his assassination, I never would have cheered as people burned him in effigy (which I remember happening with Bush, but I don't recall seeing it with Obama). And since he took office, I judge him based on what he has done.

Unfortunately, I still think he was horrible for this country and I wouldn't really want to spend an evening at dinner with the man. But even if I wanted him out of office (and I will cheer when he is), I never wanted to see him dead. I just didn't want to see him anymore at all.

We all know that Trump wasn't my first choice. I'm not exactly celebrating the idea of him in office. But I genuinely hope that he does the job well. We don't win if he proves me right by being a bad choice.


Here endeth the rambling.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

I genuinely hope that he does the job well. We don't win if he proves me right by being a bad choice.

My hope for Trump is the same as it is for every president when they take office.  I hope he's the best one ever.  I hope four years from now he's so beloved that no one wants to run against him.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

As Brit who voted for Brexit I can completely understand why the Trumpeteers voted the way they did.
Over here it was mainly a massive backlash from the working class north-of which I'm one- who had been totally ignored by the out of touch rich London political/rich bubble.

Why most of us voted out.
Europe's establishment is massively corrupt-if you think your swamp needs draining
Do not want EVER to be part of a European superstate run by Germany
Do not want to be part of a European army
Want to make our own rules.
Look at the mess Greece is in, if that's progress I'm a Dutchman

This is what decided it though
Immigration-no control in the EU free borders
Millions of poor east European labourers have already displaced the local people as they will work for far less to do the same job. Our borders could not be controlled in the EU.
The original Boston has the highest immigration in the UK and at the vote for Brexit the highest vote to leave the EU.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The reaction to this election continues to astound me.  Legendary comics artist George Perez is now stating he will no longer attend comic conventions in states that Trump won.  Nice of him to consider all of the people in those states who actually think like him and did not vote Trump.

Of course, in the end Perez is hurting himself the most.  For an artist of his caliber, it's not unusual to make ten grand over a three day convention weekend.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Nothing says outsider like having the head of the RNC as your chief of staff...

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Um. Trump just made noted white nationalist Steve Bannon his chief strategist. I don't know how having no filter and a tendency to exaggerate diminishes the racist attitudes in play and in power here.

Uncle Informant, I have some very bad news for you. I am really scared of Donald Trump. I am so terrified that I had to write some script pages of Quinn Mallory telling me how to keep moving forward so that I could fall asleep at night. But Quinn is only a fictional character and he can only go so far, so I will be depending on you heavily to de-escalate the left-leaning hysteria and possibly direct me to some better news sources. I'm frightened and I don't even live in America.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Do you have any evidence that he is a white nationalist? I've seen the accusations, but no actual evidence.

I have read comments from people who know the man, both in the form of articles online and just from comments on Facebook and they all pretty much say the same thing... The guy may be an opportunist and kind of an asshole, but he isn't an anti-Semite or a white nationalist.

There is a lot of anger and many bruised egos right now, especially in the media which all but called this election for Hillary as soon as Obama's last campaign ended. They are saying a lot of things, and not all of them are based in truth.

I fully expect Trump to piss me off and do many stupid things. I don't need to freak out over fake stuff when the real stuff will come along soon enough.

At the end of the day, I don't think that Trump will blow up the world. We have a whole system in place to stop that from happening (though Obama got around the system often enough). The economy sucks, race relations are at a low point in my lifetime, the healthcare system is a trainwreck, we have terrorist attacks on our soil every couple of months it seems, our military has been weakened... The system in place now is not working in any way. I'm not as scared of what Trump will do as I was of what would happen if we stayed on our current path.

Open borders do not make us safe. Sanctuary cities do not make us safe. A president who tells federal agents to stop enforcing the law doesn't make us safe. A president who feeds a culture of divisiveness and hatred... We already have one of those, and it is leading to violence, and bloodshed. I hope that Trump can do something to make that better, but I honestly don't think he could put us on a road to make it worse unless he goes full-in Nazi, which seems unlikely.


There is a lot of exaggeration going on, which is making people .ore scared than they should be. If anything, I expect Trump to step back from his campaign positions and lean toward the center. He was a liberal for quite a long time. I don't trust him, I don't like him... But I'm going to wait and see what he actually does before I flip out. There's always a slim chance that he won't suck. And if he does suck, we're just back to where we started before he came along.

Obama is a horrible President, not to mention a racist, hateful person. We survived him. We've survived other bad Presidents. We should be wary of any politician, some more than others, but just sit back and hope for the best until that's no longer an option. Then take it one day at a time. I'd save the actual fear for the next episode of Supergirl.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Well. I want to believe.

During this election, Temporal Flux renounced the Republican Party. Despite not being American, I largely identified with Democrats, but I now renounce the Democratic Party. There's nothing particularly democratic about them at all; they've largely been run for the benefit of plutocrats, corporations, banks and other financial institutions.

They make a big show of claiming to care about the working class while facilitating the devastation of their livelihoods while making stumbling overtures in civil rights and health care that turn out to be little more than gestures. Obama and Clinton are really just Democrats in name; they only play Democrats on TV.

I guess, in my head, I justified it by saying that sometimes you give a little to get a little, you go along to get along, the role of corporate enterprise in supposedly democratic political action was an unfortunate evil but that they were better than the alternative -- except this approach has alienated at least half the country and turned the US Presidency over to either an ignoramaus, a madman, or both. This doesn't work. This isn't working.

The GOP terrifies me and the Democratic Party has betrayed me through sheer force of egotistical incompetence, sabotaging a decent candidate to push forward an ineffectual one and now I'm writing ****ing SLIDERS scripts to shore up my ability to get through the day.

Anyway. I'll try it your way.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

What terrifies you about the GOP, exactly? Maybe we can work through those issues and help you come to a better understanding that you may disagree with, but which doesn't fill you with fear.

Now, that isn't to say that the GOP is great. I think most of, or possibly all of the politicians are corrupt in one way or another. They should be under our microscope and held accountable. The people of the country are supposed to be one of the safety measures in place to keep the government in check, but the people have gotten lazy and usually done care.

Still, fear isn't good. Maybe we can work on that.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

None of these people terrify me, because I know they are largely cowards!  Quite a bit of evidence there.  However, the deep ties/chains to lobbyists for the energy, Pharma, banking and other industries is really the large concern.  Both parties are ruled by these interests.  McCain Feingold was gutted by a conservative Supreme Court, and until something similar is written to law, it will only get worse. 

I think the Democrats are actually in an interesting position, IF they truly can finally purge themselves of the Clinton camp.  This seems likely.  Will they be further left?  Probably, but to be honest, it's clear populism is IN. 

As for Trump, I found it funny that the "Prediction Professor," who has a perfect Prez election record, has now said he expects Trump to be impeached at some point.  We'll see about that, but his team is perhaps the most insular I've ever seen.  They are loyalists first, experience second, an incredibly big red flag.  They have already tried to hide from the press, and we saw how they acted during the campaign. 

To me the gravest threats posed to the American people are due to climate change and cyber attack.  The days of nuclear and even foreign terrorism being high on the list are over.  You're much more likely to have your personal identity and even finances stolen from cyber terrorists.  The nation's economy is at very HIGH risk as well, due to hacking.   I felt like Obama did nothing about this, and Trump will do even less, especially after benefiting from Wikileaks and refusing to point the finger at Russia as EVERY intelligence service did.  Climate Change is the #1 threat, to both the United States and the world.  The amount of death and financial destruction is second to none.  GOP has been so bad on this, it is frankly treasonous.  They are in the pockets of the energy industry, and nothing has gotten done.  Trump will likely reverse the orders Obama has given on this, driving the US and the world into the abyss much sooner.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Terrorism is still a pretty real threat, both in the US and around the world. I don't see how you can downplay that fact. Yes, cyber security is a major issue that needs to be addressed, but unfortunately, it's not either/or. We have to deal with both. One of those terrorist attacks was right down the street from where I live. It's hard to ignore the threat when you have helicopters circling your home for a week and the police blowing up backpacks while you're trying to watch TV.

Climate change... Honestly, I think it's a stretch to call anyone treasonous over it. It isn't an issue that I'm super invested in. And I would go into more detail, but it's hard to go on long-winded rants about corruption and science when I'm typing with my thumbs. ☺

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor wrote:

Climate Change is the #1 threat, to both the United States and the world.  The amount of death and financial destruction is second to none.  GOP has been so bad on this, it is frankly treasonous.  They are in the pockets of the energy industry, and nothing has gotten done.  Trump will likely reverse the orders Obama has given on this, driving the US and the world into the abyss much sooner.

I agree that the Republican stance on climate change is ridiculous, but let's not pretend that things were going to get any better under Clinton's watch.  She's just as tied to the oil companies, and she's basically Johnny Frackingseed.

This is the problem with electing presidents that are going to be dead in the next couple decades.  Why would they care about climate change when they won't be here much longer?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The odds are far greater that you or your property will be killed or damaged by climate change, gun violence, or decrepit infrastructure than terrorism. 

The latest is Newt Gingrich is talking up his moon base again.  Something the scientific community feels is a dead end with regard to getting to Mars.

490 (edited by Informant 2016-11-21 22:24:42)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The fact is that we have a group of people who have declared war on not just America, but anyone who isn't like them. They will kill as many people as they can, in the hopes of wiping all of us off of the face of the Earth. You don't shrug and do nothing about that. Ignoring cancer doesn't make it go away.

And sorry, but your line about the odds of me being killed on my own property would have been a lot more convincing if a stray bullet from terrorist attack couldn't have conceivably done me in a few months back. Climate change didn't show up in my neighborhood with a bunch of guns, planning to mow down as many people as they could. Terrorists did.

I fail to see the logic in not acknowledging the threat that we can see with our own eyes all the time. You want to talk climate change? Great. We can do that if you want. We can discuss gun violence. We can discuss the economy. We can discuss healthcare. We can discuss alien invaders from the planet Fritolay if it comes to it. But why ignore something so blatantly obvious the people who have the will and the increasing ability to kill us?

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

If terrorism was truly Trump's #1 concern, he'd be building his wall on the other border

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

There are many issues that need to be dealt with. Not all Presidents will pick one topic to care about and let everything else go wild. Terrorism is an issue. Illegal immigration is an issue. Healthcare is an issue. Education is an issue.

We're gonna have to walk and chew gum at the same time here.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

http://slatestarcodex.com/2016/11/16/yo … ying-wolf/

Not exactly my point of view, but it is a really good take on the situation.



On a somewhat similar note, I'm finding this whole post-election display fascinating. You have people and celebrities going on about a civil war, or how Trump supporters need to die, but that venom isn't being reported very widely. Nor are the incidents of anti-Trump people beating Trump supporters in the streets.

Then you have people saying that Trump is to blame for all of the recent racism and hatred, but it doesn't make sense. One person on Facebook was like "One day into President Trump"... But we aren't a day into President Trump. He won't be sworn in for two more months. There has been a spike in hate crimes (a rather vague and broad classification), but the election period statistics haven't been factored in yet, so they have nothing to do with Trump.

Then we have a sudden surge of reports of racist actions by people who all appear to be wearing "Make America Great Again" hats... I don't think I've ever even seen one of those hats being worn by normal people in public, so isn't it weird that all of these incidents involve people wearing a hat that makes it easy to identify them as Trump supporters?

I don't know. A lot of this doesn't make sense. In terms of Presidential blame, Bush and Trump seem to be overlapping. It's like Obama never happened. In a couple of years, they'll be saying that Trump caused a spike in racial tension, despite the fact that it happened before he was elected (similar to the way people forget that the economy started to suffer under Clinton). And the failure of Obamacare will probably be chalked up to Trump not giving it a chance. I don't get how the actual President is walking away from years of racial tension building up on his watch, and he is sparkling clean in the media as people riot in the streets... Again.

I'm just having a difficult time understanding the flow of the narrative that's going on. If it were written as a story, I'd tell the author that they need to work on it because it's just not making sense.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The white supremacists who always support the Republicans have gotten more press this time around.

I wouldn't trust any news from Facebook.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

That's another weird thing... White supremicists have much more history with the Democrats, yet they're always talked about as though they're a Republican problem. Historically, Republicans are the ones who have fought harder for equal rights.

Though at this point, there probably aren't enough white supremicists around to matter anymore.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

That's another weird thing... White supremicists have much more history with the Democrats, yet they're always talked about as though they're a Republican problem. Historically, Republicans are the ones who have fought harder for equal rights.

Though at this point, there probably aren't enough white supremicists around to matter anymore.

Ancient history.  There's a reason Strom Thurmond and his ilk switched from the Democrats to the Republicans.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

There are many issues that need to be dealt with. Not all Presidents will pick one topic to care about and let everything else go wild. Terrorism is an issue. Illegal immigration is an issue. Healthcare is an issue. Education is an issue.

We're gonna have to walk and chew gum at the same time here.

I think the two primary things Trump has to do right away, is first, pick a legit cabinet, not one simply to reward his few hard-core backers.  Many of those people are incompetent or so saddled with dirty laundry they should have no major role.  Trump has pledged to tap the best of the best and drain the swamp, and people like Rudy Giuliani are the worst examples of that. 

Second objective is to establish that no conflict of interest will be present between Trump administration and Trump businesses.  Donald has sounded like he's NOT going to do this, and I think this is not only a serious issue in terms of governmental integrity, but also a big danger to himself.  If anything propelled him to victory, it was the public distaste for the Clinton system of pay to play, grease, graft, nepotism, etc.  To use the office of President to enrich your family business is a conflict of interest we may have never encountered before.  I'm sure even Republicans will be gasping at how the press will handle that. 

As for celebrities and who's to blame for what, I think the Internet has simply blown everything out of control.  Honestly, this may sound counter-intuitive, but I think Washington functioned a lot better back when nobody kept track of them!

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Not really ancient. A lot of the democratic politicians of today came up in that era. We're not talking about the Civil War here.

Look, there are plenty of bad people who support both sides. We could spend all day going back and forth, finding the worst people in the world and seeing which party they support. It might be an interesting conversation, but using it as a broad stroke against someone doesn't really work. If the implication is that the conservatives are racist and therefore attract racists, it's just not based in reality. The fact is that whatever white supremacists exist today are a tiny percentage of the population. They're a fringe group so small that they only get media attention when that media is looking for the slimiest headline they can get their hands on.

When have Republicans ever been a party of racism? They weren't the ones forming the KKK. They weren't the ones who were fighting against equal rights. They weren't the ones supporting the eugenics movement. You say that all of this is ancient history, so what does the present look like to you now? How big of an issue do you truly and honestly believe the white supremacist movement to be in the Republican party? Because I know a lot of people, with a lot of political beliefs, and the white supremacist thing has never really been an issue with anyone I've ever met.

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Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Sorry Grizzlor. I didn't see your post until this morning. I wasn't ignoring you. I'm just replying slowly. smile

It's a weird comment, but I kinda agree with your last comment. The problem is that politics and celebrity have been combined. Now, you have Presidents acting like Hollywood elites (it didn't start with Obama... oddly enough, it didn't start with Reagan either). We shouldn't be looking at politicians in that light. We should be looking at them under the harsh light of an interrogation room, under constant scrutiny, not inviting them to film a Carpool Karaoke segment (I know, that was Michelle, not Barack. But the comment still stands).

The sad thing is that far too many people get their news from comedians and twitter these days. This makes people really, really stupid. I've seen people who seem to think that Trump is already in office, and it makes me want to slam my head into a wall. Grown adults shouldn't need the dumbed down, coloring book version of the news.


As for your other comments, I obviously agree that he needs a competent cabinet. I'm not a big Rudy Giuliani fan either. Right now, I'm just in a holding pattern. We're already jumping off this cliff and there's no going back (sorry to anyone who donated to that recount... it's a waste of money). I'm just going to do what I did with Obama last time. Close my eyes, wait for the impact and try to address the wounds as best I can once they happen.

Please be informed that the political, scientific, sociological, economic and legal views expressed in Informant's posts and social media accounts do not reflect any consensus of Sliders.tv.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Informant wrote:

(sorry to anyone who donated to that recount... it's a waste of money).

Speaking of that, I found this article amusing (especially if true):

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-11-2 … ount-costs

The comments however are awful.