Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

QuinnSlidr wrote:

So you're saying ageism is fine, and racism is okay, so we should acknowledge their behavior as right by making these concessions?

....no?

And I'm not even sure how you're getting that from anything I said.  I'm obviously on Biden's side.  But I'm also able to see that this election is going to be very close.  It doesn't matter whether Trump is a racist or a sexist or a rapist or a fraud or convicted in four different trials.

So Biden would be wise to do whatever it takes to get people on his side.  He's very unpopular, even with people who like him, on immigration and the border.  If he can get one vote from a Trump supporter by making concessions on the border, that's one vote closer to Biden being president and Trump not being president.

Just doing what he's been doing isn't enough.  He has to do more.  Otherwise, there's a real risk that Trump becomes president again.  That's not my opinion.  It's just the facts.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

QuinnSlidr wrote:

I'm not here to tell you what's right or wrong. Just my philosophy. You can choose to agree or disagree. For me, I'm a one-issue voter this term: Democracy vs. Fascism. Once we save the nation from going down the path of Germany in 1943 with the rethuglicans, we can discuss concessions. The reason why is because of the shift in voter demographics in 2024. Rethuglicans are dreading this shift, because this means that next year, far more people will be progressive voters, and they will never hold a majority ever again. So they are trying to do everything they can, while they can now to ensure their ideals are passed in any way shape and form they choose. That is why we can't let fascism take hold.

Not being American, I can't vote in 2024, but if I could, I'd be voting the same as you which is to say I'd be voting against Trump. Canada will have an election in 2025 and I'll be voting against the Canadian equivalent of Trump. That doesn't mean I put the person who has won my vote on a pedestal, of course. I'm just choosing my preferred opponent.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/biden-admi … uth-texas/

Obviously Biden saw the same poll and had the same concerns.  I don't think there's any harm in doing some highly-visible work at the border.  If it were up to me, I'd send Kamala down to the border with very public events, especially in border towns where Republicans are making serious inroads.  One of Harris' strengths is her toughness on crime, and I think if Biden/Harris even give the appearance of being tougher on the border than they have been (even if it's all for show), then I think it will be much harder for non-MAGA Republicans to vote for Trump. 

I know some of these people, and I promise you they'll think "Well the economy is doing better, Biden seems to be doing things on the border, Harris is doing good work....I can live with four more years of this."

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

TemporalFlux wrote:

Really, the only reason anything has value is because enough people believe it has value.  It’s all based on confidence.

Gold has value because it’s rare, it’s pretty and it’s physical - things that made it a symbol of power.  In the modern age, it also has usefulness in the physical ability to make technology work.

Paper money (like the US Dollar) had value initially because people had faith that the US government had enough gold (i.e. Fort Knox) to back up the dollar’s value.  In modern times, the dollar was unpegged from gold and took on a floating value.  But again, that value is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government (realistically based on perception of military might, industrial complex, alliances, etc).  Basically, the world believes the US is “good for it” (a belief that is eroding).

And now we have Bitcoin.  Can it have value?  Certainly - if enough people believe it does.  My concern is that I can’t see what’s backing it up.  All it seems to be is an exercise in how much electricity you can pump through a computer to do useless work.

I think people are more drawn to the idea of Bitcoin being a one world currency that governments can’t devalue through their action or inaction.  The worth of Bitcoin seems to be more as an aspirational philosophy; and that’s just not enough for me to believe in as a way to buy and sell goods and services.  I believe the value of Bitcoin is something as whimsical as the hippie movement (which largely faded from history and lost most of what faith it had).


Developments keep proving TF right on this. Cryptocurrency has proven to be useless, has no value backing it up, and it is also a massive scam.
https://slate.com/technology/2023/10/sb … cards.html

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:
TemporalFlux wrote:

Really, the only reason anything has value is because enough people believe it has value.  It’s all based on confidence.

Gold has value because it’s rare, it’s pretty and it’s physical - things that made it a symbol of power.  In the modern age, it also has usefulness in the physical ability to make technology work.

Paper money (like the US Dollar) had value initially because people had faith that the US government had enough gold (i.e. Fort Knox) to back up the dollar’s value.  In modern times, the dollar was unpegged from gold and took on a floating value.  But again, that value is backed by the full faith and credit of the US government (realistically based on perception of military might, industrial complex, alliances, etc).  Basically, the world believes the US is “good for it” (a belief that is eroding).

And now we have Bitcoin.  Can it have value?  Certainly - if enough people believe it does.  My concern is that I can’t see what’s backing it up.  All it seems to be is an exercise in how much electricity you can pump through a computer to do useless work.

I think people are more drawn to the idea of Bitcoin being a one world currency that governments can’t devalue through their action or inaction.  The worth of Bitcoin seems to be more as an aspirational philosophy; and that’s just not enough for me to believe in as a way to buy and sell goods and services.  I believe the value of Bitcoin is something as whimsical as the hippie movement (which largely faded from history and lost most of what faith it had).


Developments keep proving TF right on this. Cryptocurrency has proven to be useless, has no value backing it up, and it is also a massive scam.
https://slate.com/technology/2023/10/sb … cards.html

What's nuts is... as an investment instrument...(which it is not touted to be, it's supposed to be a currency used for everyday transactions)... if you held bitcoin before the pandemic and still hold it now, you'd still have a 10x return on the investment. 

The hype period is over but the market still values it as a potential future currency, otherwise the price would still not be so high (even if it's half of the peak).

The idea of giving people power especially in third world countries to not be reliant on the currency of potentially corrupt govts is a powerful one.  But too many people got involved in bitcoin simply as an investor and a lot of those who came in during the hype have exited now.   A lot of big companies exploited retail investors, people lost their shirt.   Even though crypto is supposed to be about removing influence by govt, the flipside of the lack of regulation was wealthy people getting more wealthy from it and consumers being manipulated by pyramid schemes.


For the life of me, trends like nfts, web 3, obscure cryptocoins.... they seem so full of hot air.  I don't know how people get so excited over such crap.  There seems to be more important things to help humanity but we have very bright people who get consumed and apply their talents toward this stuff.  Can't people smell bullshit?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

The reality is that people can be swayed and tricked when they are made to feel special and important, whether that's by investing in a technology that was overhyped in the press after it was past its peak or by political or cultural affiliation. They can be scammed by endorsements from celebrities like Matt Damon. They can be swayed by the fear of missing out on a technology that they don't actually understand.

I myself was particularly obsessed with netbooks.

2,167 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2023-10-08 12:45:39)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:

I myself was particularly obsessed with netbooks.

They were not a terrible idea, even Wade would've approved.

Today's laptop is a hybrid netbook any how when you compare percentage of data stored locally vs the cloud.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

When it comes to netbooks, I am a bit like a former cult member. I still feel a certain fondness for the idea of a netbook. I mean, wasn't it a great idea? To spend $200 USD on a 10.1 inch laptop that, while hardly a gaming machine, was suitable for banging out emails and social media posts and handling your online business. A travel laptop that you could drop out a window by mistake and replace without causing a global economic crisis. The idea was spectacular and compelling and enticing: a cramped but usable burner laptop. The junker car of mobile computers. Even today, I find myself open to buying a 10.1 inch laptop.

The reality was... not quite that. The main issue with netbooks is that because the profit margins were so low on these products, manufacturers cut a lot of corners making them. I had the Acer Aspire One, the Asus Transformer T100 TAM, the Asus Transformer T100 Chi and the Asus Transformer Mini T102. All were cheap and awful: the Acer Aspire One battery went dead in a year, the Asus T100 TAM was was so badly sealed that dust would get under the screen, the T100 Chi's trackpad would randomly go dead; the Mini T102 developed white spots on the monitor. The only netbook I ever had that was actually good was the HP DM1 with the AMD E-450 processor, 4GB of RAM, a 120GB SSD -- and this was indeed the well-built, reliable, low weight netbook I'd been looking for, but I gave it away to a friend who was going back to school.

I got the Asus Vivobook L210, an 11.6 inch laptop with an Intel Celeron processor and 4GB of RAM... and it was unusably slow. I got the HP Elitebook Folio G3 which used the low power Intel Core M and even with an SSD and 8GB of RAM, Windows 10 ran so slowly that web browsers were constantly freezing up. It became clear: most of my netbooks had been during the days of Windows 7. But Windows 7 gave way to Windows 10, and where Windows 7 ran well on Intel Atom processors, spinning hard drives and 2GB of RAM, Windows 10 really demanded a solid state drive and at minimum 8GB of RAM with at least an Intel i3.

Ultimately, the smartphone and tablet killed the netbook. No one wanted to buy these poorly made, underpowered computers when smartphones offered more responsive performance and tablets offered better multimedia playback at a lighter weight, even if they didn't have the versatility of physical keyboards.

I'm currently using the HP Elitebook 830 G5 with an i5 processor and 8GB of RAM and an SSD. It's thin and light enough... but despite being a good value laptop, it certainly wouldn't be cheap to replace like a netbook. I still long for the return of burner netbooks. It will never happen, the profit margin is too low.

2,169 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2023-10-08 20:37:17)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:

I still long for the return of burner netbooks. It will never happen, the profit margin is too low.

the simple solution is refurbished laptops.  They tend to have issues, but usually not major ones, and are much cheaper.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I'm intrigued by RFK Jr. going into the race as an independent.  He's been strongly supported by MAGA as some kind of spoiler to Biden, but that's because he's philosophically a conservative.  He's straight crazy, and he's supported by Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Ron DeSantis, and Joe Rogan, among others.  He made a lot of noise early because he was polling in the teens/20s in certain polls.  Experts said it was essentially name recognition driving the polling because, again, he doesn't have any of the same ideals that Democrats would ever vote for.

But as an independent, I think he's much more dangerous to Trump than Biden.  I think the test will be whether the Democrats can convince their voters that RFK is *not* a true Kennedy and whether or not conservatives can convince his true believers to vote for Trump.

What do we think?

2,171 (edited by QuinnSlidr 2023-10-11 19:53:29)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I'm intrigued by RFK Jr. going into the race as an independent.  He's been strongly supported by MAGA as some kind of spoiler to Biden, but that's because he's philosophically a conservative.  He's straight crazy, and he's supported by Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Ron DeSantis, and Joe Rogan, among others.  He made a lot of noise early because he was polling in the teens/20s in certain polls.  Experts said it was essentially name recognition driving the polling because, again, he doesn't have any of the same ideals that Democrats would ever vote for.

But as an independent, I think he's much more dangerous to Trump than Biden.  I think the test will be whether the Democrats can convince their voters that RFK is *not* a true Kennedy and whether or not conservatives can convince his true believers to vote for Trump.

What do we think?

I don't celebrate any right wing nutcase.

RFK Jr. doesn't deserve the name Kennedy.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

QuinnSlidr wrote:

I don't celebrate any right wing nutcase.

RFK Jr. doesn't deserve the name Kennedy.

Well, I'm not celebrating him.  I don't want him to have any power or for anyone to like anything he says.  I'm talking about a means to an end, and I think Kennedy might be the means to that end.  Same as if Don Jr or Rudy Guiliani or whoever were to run.  If it splits MAGA, then MAGA cannot win.

2,173

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

It's been a long time since the Kennedy clan was relevant nationally.  He'll pull less than 100k votes and nobody will remember he ran as anything but a joke.  Kind of like Kanye West last election.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

RFK Jr has a pretty high profile a politician.  He shows up on Joe Rogan's podcast (I don't listen or pay attention to that, but I know he does) and DeSantis has mentioned that he'd hire him if he were president.  I think that's a higher profile than Kanye, but I can't speak either way about his overall popularity.

Not to bring up polling again, but he polls fairly high especially among Republicans.  They're also less likely to be picking RFK on a poll because he's not Biden or because of his name (the primary reasons he was getting high poll numbers in the Democratic primary).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics … publicans/

And even if you're right, I guess it just depends on where the 100,000 votes are.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:
QuinnSlidr wrote:

I don't celebrate any right wing nutcase.

RFK Jr. doesn't deserve the name Kennedy.

Well, I'm not celebrating him.  I don't want him to have any power or for anyone to like anything he says.  I'm talking about a means to an end, and I think Kennedy might be the means to that end.  Same as if Don Jr or Rudy Guiliani or whoever were to run.  If it splits MAGA, then MAGA cannot win.

It's a little confusing, because of statements like these that indicate overwhelming support on your side for these candidates...

"I'm intrigued by RFK Jr. going into the race as an independent."

"He's been strongly supported by MAGA as some kind of spoiler to Biden, but that's because he's philosophically a conservative.  He's straight crazy, and he's supported by Steve Bannon, Tucker Carlson, Ron DeSantis, and Joe Rogan, among others."

"He made a lot of noise early because he was polling in the teens/20s in certain polls."

"Experts said it was essentially name recognition driving the polling because, again, he doesn't have any of the same ideals that Democrats would ever vote for." <---- derogatory remark against Dems?

I might be misunderstanding. If so, nevermind...

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

QuinnSlidr, I have to tell you: I am truly baffled and confused by your remarks.

Slider_Quinn21 voted for Biden in the last election and voted not-Trump before that (but not for Clinton).

Slider_Quinn21 described Robert Kennedy Jr. as "crazy" and associated him with other right-wing nutjobs whose names I don't wish to type, all of whom Slider_Quinn21 clearly holds in contempt.

Slider_Quinn21 said that Robert Kennedy Jr. doesn't have any of the ideals that Democrats would vote for; Slider_Quinn21 votes against Republicans.

Whatever the issue is here, it's not Slider_Quinn21's politics. As long as he votes against Trump, that should really be sufficient for your not unreasonable moral standard.

The rest is Slider_Quinn21 psychoanalyzing and gaming out the MAGA movement and how it could play out in the next election. Slider_Quinn21 is an amateur pollster of sorts and analysis is not affiliation. When we start accusing an anti-Trump voter of allegiance to alt-right fascism, there should be more evidence than their political commentary not being wholeheartedly in favour of what Democrat Party does or doesn't do.

The Democratic Party of America is not above criticism or reproach and has serious systemic and structural issues (albeit not as severe as the Republican Party which is basically a criminal organization and a terrorist group at this point). Real democrats don't do loyalty tests or demand ideological purity. They only thing a democrat should demand is a basic foundational belief that should transcend all party boundaries; the belief all people are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, among them being the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and that James Brown is the godfather of soul.

So what's the actual issue here?

I think the issue is that your stepfather died and you are in pain. I think your fight or flight instincts have gone haywire. I think you are suffering and hurt. I think you are experiencing distress and loss and mistaking observation for enemy action. I think you are looking for a fight when what you need is a friend.

I think you should tell us about your stepfather and why you miss him and what he meant to you and how hard and painful it has been for you.

I think you should share your memories of him, both the good and the bad, and why his loss has left a void in your life that is leaving you in agony.

This has been a transparent attempt to be sentimental with what I confess is a guess and possibly projection, because "I think you are looking for a fight when what you need is a friend" would also apply to me at many points in my life.

This has also been a transparent attempt to request that Slider_Quinn21 not to be offended or upset with you for these odd attacks on his politics and to ask him to remember that you're going through something really hard and horrible.

2,177 (edited by QuinnSlidr 2023-10-12 18:58:25)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:

QuinnSlidr, I have to tell you: I am truly baffled and confused by your remarks.

Slider_Quinn21 voted for Biden in the last election and voted not-Trump before that (but not for Clinton).

Slider_Quinn21 described Robert Kennedy Jr. as "crazy" and associated him with other right-wing nutjobs whose names I don't wish to type, all of whom Slider_Quinn21 clearly holds in contempt.

Slider_Quinn21 said that Robert Kennedy Jr. doesn't have any of the ideals that Democrats would vote for; Slider_Quinn21 votes against Republicans.

Whatever the issue is here, it's not Slider_Quinn21's politics. As long as he votes against Trump, that should really be sufficient for your not unreasonable moral standard.

The rest is Slider_Quinn21 psychoanalyzing and gaming out the MAGA movement and how it could play out in the next election. Slider_Quinn21 is an amateur pollster of sorts and analysis is not affiliation. When we start accusing an anti-Trump voter of allegiance to alt-right fascism, there should be more evidence than their political commentary not being wholeheartedly in favour of what Democrat Party does or doesn't do.

The Democratic Party of America is not above criticism or reproach and has serious systemic and structural issues (albeit not as severe as the Republican Party which is basically a criminal organization and a terrorist group at this point). Real democrats don't do loyalty tests or demand ideological purity. They only thing a democrat should demand is a basic foundational belief that should transcend all party boundaries; the belief all people are created equal, endowed with certain inalienable rights, among them being the right to life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness and that James Brown is the godfather of soul.

So what's the actual issue here?

I think the issue is that your stepfather died and you are in pain. I think your fight or flight instincts have gone haywire. I think you are suffering and hurt. I think you are experiencing distress and loss and mistaking observation for enemy action. I think you are looking for a fight when what you need is a friend.

I think you should tell us about your stepfather and why you miss him and what he meant to you and how hard and painful it has been for you.

I think you should share your memories of him, both the good and the bad, and why his loss has left a void in your life that is leaving you in agony.

This has been a transparent attempt to be sentimental with what I confess is a guess and possibly projection, because "I think you are looking for a fight when what you need is a friend" would also apply to me at many points in my life.

This has also been a transparent attempt to request that Slider_Quinn21 not to be offended or upset with you for these odd attacks on his politics and to ask him to remember that you're going through something really hard and horrible.

I was just calling it like I saw it. And I owe Slider_Quinn21 an apology. I can admit when I am wrong. I dislike anything positive about the right wing at any point at this point, and his statements just felt like a veiled attempt at spreading positivity about right wingers, without knowing more. Like I said, if I am incorrect, nevermind.

I also apologize for jumping the gun.

It has nothing to do with my stepdad, but everything to do about my dislike of right wingers. The mere mention of Joe Rogan or Steve Bannon makes me physically ill.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Oh, if I wasn't clear before.  Let me be very clear: I do not support RFK Jr on any level.  I do not support Donald Trump or his MAGA movement on any level.  Trumpism is a disease on this country, and it must be eradicated.  I believe this wholeheartedly.

ireactions mentioned that I voted against Trump in 2016 but not for Clinton.  I greatly regret this, even though my vote would not have mattered in the result.  I grossly underestimated the harm that Donald Trump could do, and it's one reason why I've significantly tried to educate myself in these matters.  I didn't used to listen to political podcasts or learn about political figures.

I am a Democrat and support Democrats.  I'm about as close to "Vote Blue No Matter Who" as you can be, and I've voted that way locally for the last few elections.  I rarely voted in midterms prior to 2016.  This year I voted on some random local offcycle election.  I voted all Democrats.

ireactions, as usual, is correct in my motivation and goal.  Like I said, Trumpism is a disease that must be eradicated.  Some diseases can be eliminated by doing the right thing (eating healthy, exercising, cutting bad habits, etc).

Some diseases need to be destroyed with chemotherapy or surgery that can be as painful or more painful than the diseases.  And I'm open to any and all (legal and honest) solutions for Donald Trump to lose.  And I would prefer that all people that have supported Trump (especially my political nemesis Ted Cruz) also crash and burn.  But right now, the focus has to be on eliminating Trump in 2024.

And so that's my thinking in bringing up stuff like Biden's border policy and RFK Jr.  I'm *fascinated* by any move that gets Biden closer to victory in 2024.  I would *love* if America would wake up and realize that half its citizens are trying to vote for a 4-time indicted conman.  I am losing my faith that such a thing is going to happen in time.  I don't know if I have enough faith that the courts will even get these trials in on time, and even if they do, I don't have enough faith for my fellow countrymen for that to matter.  Too many people have already indicated that they're voting for Trump no matter what.

So can a slight alteration in border policy scrape off a few votes from Trump?  If so, I'm in!  If RFK Jr runs and can scrape a few MAGA people off the Trump bandwagon, I'm in!  Yes, these are both bad things.  I don't want Biden to adopt a more-conservative view on the border, but we have to win.  I hate that RFK Jr is getting any attention, but we have to win.

********

QuinnSlidr, I appreciate the apology, but I assure you I took no disrespect.  I am very sorry for your loss as well.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

Oh, if I wasn't clear before.  Let me be very clear: I do not support RFK Jr on any level.  I do not support Donald Trump or his MAGA movement on any level.  Trumpism is a disease on this country, and it must be eradicated.  I believe this wholeheartedly.

ireactions mentioned that I voted against Trump in 2016 but not for Clinton.  I greatly regret this, even though my vote would not have mattered in the result.  I grossly underestimated the harm that Donald Trump could do, and it's one reason why I've significantly tried to educate myself in these matters.  I didn't used to listen to political podcasts or learn about political figures.

I am a Democrat and support Democrats.  I'm about as close to "Vote Blue No Matter Who" as you can be, and I've voted that way locally for the last few elections.  I rarely voted in midterms prior to 2016.  This year I voted on some random local offcycle election.  I voted all Democrats.

ireactions, as usual, is correct in my motivation and goal.  Like I said, Trumpism is a disease that must be eradicated.  Some diseases can be eliminated by doing the right thing (eating healthy, exercising, cutting bad habits, etc).

Some diseases need to be destroyed with chemotherapy or surgery that can be as painful or more painful than the diseases.  And I'm open to any and all (legal and honest) solutions for Donald Trump to lose.  And I would prefer that all people that have supported Trump (especially my political nemesis Ted Cruz) also crash and burn.  But right now, the focus has to be on eliminating Trump in 2024.

And so that's my thinking in bringing up stuff like Biden's border policy and RFK Jr.  I'm *fascinated* by any move that gets Biden closer to victory in 2024.  I would *love* if America would wake up and realize that half its citizens are trying to vote for a 4-time indicted conman.  I am losing my faith that such a thing is going to happen in time.  I don't know if I have enough faith that the courts will even get these trials in on time, and even if they do, I don't have enough faith for my fellow countrymen for that to matter.  Too many people have already indicated that they're voting for Trump no matter what.

So can a slight alteration in border policy scrape off a few votes from Trump?  If so, I'm in!  If RFK Jr runs and can scrape a few MAGA people off the Trump bandwagon, I'm in!  Yes, these are both bad things.  I don't want Biden to adopt a more-conservative view on the border, but we have to win.  I hate that RFK Jr is getting any attention, but we have to win.

********

QuinnSlidr, I appreciate the apology, but I assure you I took no disrespect.  I am very sorry for your loss as well.

I appreciate you, Slider_Quinn21.

I will never make that mistake again.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I wonder if the Democrats made a miscalculation when they booted McCarthy. (Note: McCarthy is terrible, and I don't support him).  He's a liar and two-faced (one republican said his superpower is that he doesn't believe in anything) but he actually worked with / caved to Democrats to get some deals done to keep the government funded and working.

If we get Jim Jordan, that ain't happening.

Now I know the Democrats can spin this to win the House in 2024 or maybe even to win the White House.  Jordan is essentially Donald Trump in the House, and if Jordan pushes for a government shutdown (which I have to assume he'll do), that will bounce back on Jordan and Trump with independents and soft/non-MAGA republicans.  There's already been a decent amount of pushback from conservative media about what a clown show this whole republican House situation has turned into.

But giving Jordan power seems like such a bad idea, even with only a year or so to wield it.

2,181

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Jordan doesn't have the votes either, it's absolutely pathetic.  GOP are not interested in governing.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

And I gotta think this hurts them politically.  Republican voters want to send money to Israel and we can't right now.  And Biden went to Israel so again maybe that helps with fringe voters.

I don't know what a good solution is for Democrats.  Who is the most moderate Republican in the House?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

And I gotta think this hurts them politically.  Republican voters want to send money to Israel and we can't right now.  And Biden went to Israel so again maybe that helps with fringe voters.

I don't know what a good solution is for Democrats.  Who is the most moderate Republican in the House?

If there's a will, there is usually a way on that R side.

But this R party is beholden to Trump and only Trump, so we will see if anything can be accomplished.

Even if there are any moderates, they're afraid of getting primaried, so they'll still be beholden to Trump just to make their life easier.

Until Trump's hold on the R party is over with in some way, that's how it will always be.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I thought Jordan was going to be able to bully his way in, but he got shot down.  That's a pretty solid loss for the MAGA movement.  I don't think this is the beginning of the end, but it's a sign that Trump doesn't have full control over House Republicans.  This was Trump's guy, and he was running unopposed.  Whoever gets the job now will not be (as) in debt to  Trump.  I think that's significant.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

ireactions mentioned that I voted against Trump in 2016 but not for Clinton.  I greatly regret this, even though my vote would not have mattered in the result.  I grossly underestimated the harm that Donald Trump could do, and it's one reason why I've significantly tried to educate myself in these matters.  I didn't used to listen to political podcasts or learn about political figures.

This was a difficult situation for you. Democrat or not, Hillary Clinton's politics, voting record, values, professed intentions and intentions were abhorrent to you. The Clintons were Democrats in name, but their politics and actions were all too often about courting Wall Street, outsourcing labour overseas, gutting welfare, etc. Hillary Clinton expected you to vote for her because she wasn't a registered Republican.

I think you have to consider that Hillary Clinton didn't do anything to earn your support. Even if you look at voting as an exercise in voting for your preferred opponent, your logic at the time was that you would vote against Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton simultaneously because your preferred opponent was, I dunno, Joe the Tiger Guy. Clinton didn't do anything to convince you that she would be your preferred opponent either. She seemed to take her victory for granted.

In contrast, I feel Biden put in the work. Biden worked hard to be the president you could grudgingly tolerate, the president you'd prefer to oppose and work around, the president you'd rather be grit your teeth and endure as opposed to the president who would actively try to get you killed in nuclear war and pandemic.

Biden's team called Trump a flailing, losing, messageless campaign of nothing, but he didn't kick back, he campaigned hard like he was losing. He repeatedly declared how he was a proud Democrat who would work hard for Republican and Democrat and independent voters alike. That's just rhetoric, but Clinton didn't even do that.

It goes both ways, Slider_Quinn21. Maybe you wish you voted for Clinton, but candidates have to do something to earn your vote.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Yeah, I've softened on Clinton, but she was just so entitled in 2016.  She was also entitled in 2008, but Barack Obama was able to defeat her.  In 2016, she stacked the deck, intimidated anyone competent from running against her, and she *still* almost blew it against a random independent named Bernie Sanders.  Now I wasn't anymore for Bernie, but Hillary went out of her way to attack Bernie supporters and making it impossible for all of them to unite under her.

Then, her campaign was such a mess.  Instead of just going for the simple win, Clinton tried to go for a Obama-ian knockout, and its part of the reason we're in this mess now.  I don't know if a smart Clinton campaign beats Trump, but you gotta think it would've considering how close it was.  I'm also not guaranteeing that any Democrat could've beaten Trump, but Clinton's unfavorables were so high that it really did seem like Trump and Clinton were both awful choices.

Clinton was very qualified (maybe not as much as she and her surrogates wanted us to believe - the beginning of political over-hyperbolization that Trump ran away with) but maybe an open primary would've allowed us to find the next Obama.  We *still* haven't found the next Obama.

But, of course, a Clinton presidency would've been better than a Trump one.  I don't know what would've happened - I assume Trump would've tried the same Stop the Steal stuff he tried against Biden.  But maybe Trumpism wouldn't have been so ingrained.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

(Please note that I still fully support Joe Biden and will do everything I can to get him elected.  My support hasn't wavered, and I think he's done a great job).

I'm starting to get nervous about 2024.

I know polls from this far out are mostly junk, but there's a lot of bad signs that I hope the Democrats and the Biden campaign are taking very seriously.  We know that Trump has overtaken Biden in a lot of national polls, but he's also started taking over in a lot of state polls.  And important battleground state polls.  Biden was down really big with young voters, both white and non-white, even among people that voted overwhelmingly for him in 2020.  I don't know if it's because of his age, because of the economy, because of some of the unrest in the world or what.  But the polls are what the polls are, and if the polls are right and the election was today, Trump wins.

Now the polls may not be right and the election isn't today.  But the election is a year from now, and things don't look good.  A four-time indicted maniac fascist is inching his way back to the White House.  I'm getting very nervous.

Now there could be tons of reasons for this.  Because the Republican primary is happening now (and there's not really a Democratic one), Trump's name is in the news more.  There's maybe more enthusiasm for Trump because he's actively campaigning and Biden really isn't.  There isn't really a blitz in favor of Biden saying all the positive things that have happened in the last three years.  All that will come and all that will help Biden.  Right now, all people are hearing is how bad things are because the only people campaigning are Republicans.

And Trump's trials are (supposedly) coming up.  Trump is taking the stand today in his fraud trial.  There's plenty of time for things to come up, for him to get a lot of bad press, and for people to wake up.

But still.  People that voted for Biden are saying that they're going to switch to Trump.  That's scary.

And it reminds me of 2016.  Everyone in the Democratic Party coalesced around a candidate that was deeply unpopular, with (mostly BS) fraud/criminal connections that rile people up.  In Hillary's case, she tried to go for a knockout instead of a win, focusing on states that would give her a landslide win instead of shoring up states that would just give her any kind of win.  I assume Biden's team will zig where Hillary's team zagged.

That being said, I'm still just surprised that we're here.  Biden talked in 2020 about being a one-term president and passing the baton on to someone else.  The Democrats won both chambers of Congress and the White House.  They had big names in Congress and in the Cabinet that they could've lifted up and popularized.  They could've given Kamala Harris work to make her more popular and likeable.

Instead, they gave Harris the impossible task of dealing with the border.  Mayor Pete has fumbled a couple of the big opportunities he had to make a splash nationally.  No one in Congress stepped up to have a high profile.  No one stepped up, and even if Biden didn't want to run, he might *have* to run because there's no one else.  Biden is unpopular, but Harris is just as unpopular.  If Biden didn't run, who would even be able to run in his place, and would that person have any more of a chance than Biden does?

They had years to build a deep bench, and what do they have to show for it?  Gretchen Whitmer?  Gavin Newsom? 

Scary times.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

So this little demonic s.o.b. won, and I’m surely about to lose my job because of it

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2023-e … or-results

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

How will you lose your job?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

How will you lose your job?

He wants to restructure the Department of Public Safety and centralize.  I would need to commute two and a half hours a day (five hours total) or move.  All this so that he could save nickels and dimes in relation to the budget (over 700 million of our state’s revenue wasn’t even spent last year).

But the real motivation is that he has some irrational hatred for the department.  He wants to destroy it and re-make it so that it’s unrecognizable and a footnote in history.

He’s been leading up to all of this for over two years.  They’ve been making it so hard that people quit and then not hiring people to replace them which makes it harder and makes more people quit, etc.  He’s just been scared to pull the final trigger on the killing blow until the election was over.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Ugh, that sucks.  I assume moving out of state isn't an easy or workable thing for you to do?

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Slider_Quinn21 wrote:

I'm starting to get nervous about 2024.

So around the time of this, I read an article that told everyone thinking the way that I was thinking to chill out.  The reasons were:

- Trump is campaigning and Biden isn't.  So if there's news about 2024, it's news about Trump (or the also-rans in the GOP primary) ragging on Biden and life in America.  So we're only getting one part of the argument, and Biden hasn't had the chance to respond with how life under Biden is better than life was under Trump.  The economy hasn't fully rebounded, gas prices are higher than they were, inflation is still an issue, we are now involved in these wars, etc.  When Biden and his surrogates are able to blitz the media with a more positive message, people should move closer to Biden.
- Saying you'll vote for Trump over Biden is one thing.  But actually voting for Trump over Biden, especially if you did the opposite in 2020 is another thing entirely.
- The other elections are going really well for Democrats.

Obviously, last night was a good night for Democrats.  There were big wins for Democrats in Virginia, Ohio, and Kentucky.  Obviously, those things aren't necessarily indicative of 2024.  There are clearly Republicans in those places that didn't vote in 2023 that will vote in 2024 for Trump.  There are one-issue voters , and that one issue is TRUMP.  They don't care about the governor of Kentucky or abortion amendments or the Virginia Senate.

But these are still big wins and indications that Democrats are ready to show up in the polls.  And that makes me feel better.  Democrats have somewhat-abandoned Biden since 2020, at least in polls, but they're still active and they're still winning.  MAGA keeps losing.

I still hope the Biden campaign is taking these numbers seriously.  They need to spend the next year listening to young men (particularly black men) and working on their concerns.  They need to raise the profile of Kamala Harris.  They cannot lose any more POC, and Biden needs to be listening and focusing on their concerns.  Not just words, either.  Actual progress.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

TF wrote about Governor Tate Reeves:

TemporalFlux wrote:

So this little demonic s.o.b. won, and I’m surely about to lose my job because of it

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2023-e … or-results

TemporalFlux wrote:

He wants to restructure the Department of Public Safety and centralize.  I would need to commute two and a half hours a day (five hours total) or move.  All this so that he could save nickels and dimes in relation to the budget (over 700 million of our state’s revenue wasn’t even spent last year).

But the real motivation is that he has some irrational hatred for the department.  He wants to destroy it and re-make it so that it’s unrecognizable and a footnote in history.

He’s been leading up to all of this for over two years.  They’ve been making it so hard that people quit and then not hiring people to replace them which makes it harder and makes more people quit, etc.  He’s just been scared to pull the final trigger on the killing blow until the election was over.

I'm very sorry to hear this, Temporal Flux. I haven't been posting daily as is my wont because I didn't feel it appropriate to talk about culture and such without conveying my sympathies first. Feel free to email me if you want me to handle the Sliders.tv hosting bill from now on.

I have read Governor Tate Reeves' Wikipedia entry and I had to triple-check to make sure this wasn't the Wiki entry for a fictional supervillain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tate_Reeves

I am angry and upset that Temporal Flux's employment is in danger due to Reeves' re-election. TF has never gone into detail about his job in public, so I won't touch on it here, but his work for the Mississippi Department of Public Safety is vital, critical and lifesaving. I have gone through a training program for TF's job and applied to work that job and I washed out so badly that my respect for TF quadrupled.

Reeves is a nutjob who told people to combat COVID-19 with prayer rather than masks, held mass gatherings during the height of the pandemic, misappropriated welfare funds, supported presidential election fraud, denied the existence of systemic racism, and now he's going after Temporal Flux.

As someone who failed to enter TF's profession (and failed so hard people still laugh about it), I'm not equipped to offer any professional advice.

However, everyone on Sliders.tv knows: Temporal Flux is a dynamic and brilliant mind, a fountain of information, a relentlessly analytical mind that predicts what's coming long before anyone else has noticed it on the horizon. This includes the threat of inflation and cryptocurrency being a scam. (Thanks to Temporal Flux, I never bought any of Felicia Day's crypto coin even though I wanted to support her.)

Everyone who reads TF's posts can tell that he's thoughtful, clever, resourceful, reasonable, and an asset to any friend group, any team, any organization, any endeavour, any enterprise, any mission. Everyone who's ever talked to TF has walked away smarter and better whether they knew it or not.

I hate Tate Reeves more than I ever hated David Peckinpah.

2,194 (edited by RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan 2023-11-11 19:35:24)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

That really sucks to hear TF.

Public Safety is the most undervalued asset of local government.  It's one of the core functions.

I am sure the governor is so divorced from the vital work, he shouldn't be making an efficiency optimization like that as he disrupts your work and seems to be draining the institutional knowledge around it.   Another sign of the dysfunction of the current times. Sigh.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Reeves is also a major player in this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson,_ … ter_crisis

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I am really sorry to hear, TF. It always sucks when a rethuglican wins, but even more so when it negatively affects the people you care about.

That party needs major reform. Starting with becoming rational folks again who are not married to Trump and right wing extremism.

2,197

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Sadly, too many politicians out their personal agendas ahead of serving their constituents

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

After six doses of Moderna, I have received one dose of Pfizer. The pharmacy was out of Moderna.

I'm told that due to lower mRNA content, the side effects will be lower, but the immune system will still learn how to identify the COVID virus and mount a defense.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

From the STAR TREK thread:
https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 901#p14901

RussianCabbie_Lotteryfan wrote:

It's kinda idiotic to me why people would question wearing a mask in a crowd at a hockey game. 

It's not like he was wearing it outdoors.  Some people don't care if they don't get sick but some people do.  If you do, then the time to still mask is in a large crowd.

I've heard of people getting sick after attending sporting events.  I don't know really to what degree sporting events are places where transmission would be high because arenas/domes have huge ceilings and stadiums are open air.  They are not small enclosed spaces.  But if you are sitting next to the wrong person for 2 hours, well that might be an issue.

Anyway, it's weird that will wheaton had to explain himself but I do give him credit for the grace at which he answered this when the conversation shouldn't still be having to be had.  And that's not to say one shouldn't respect those who do the opposite. Live and let live, make choices right for you.  Anyway, I admire the way Wheaton handled this.  He's a good guy.

Wil Wheaton's blog entry on masking is here:
https://wilwheaton.net/2023/11/mind-you … be-a-dick/

While outdoor transmission risk is negligible, a mask reduces it to non-existent. But even then, I don't see why anyone needs to take issue with anyone else's headwear.

Grizzlor wrote:

COVID baloney.  It's just simply Wil Wheaton.  Forever, he was one of the biggest grouches at conventions, and had a 100% NO TOUCHING policy.  He's parlayed his warped hatred towards his immediate family into his shtick.  I could 1000% imagine Wil Wheaton not only doing the (now completely overdone) virtue signaled masking, but then never missing an opportunity to be Mr. Outrage and furthering his own cause, "grace" or otherwise.  Honestly, I had to begrudgingly force myself through the Trek post-show's that he's hosted, as I'm sure most of his old co-stars have as well, with him there.  He's not exactly part of that "family."

I'm finding some of this baffling. I recognize that Wil Wheaton has offended you due to his behaviour at fan gatherings. You're someone who pays for the chance to meet actors, and I take it that Wheaton has failed to give you a good experience on at least one occasion. I have never met Wheaton and don't know what he's like in person, I've only read his books, and I've recently been informed that the writer is not their writing. I am sorry that you had a bad experience with Wheaton.

However, I don't see why you, someone who regularly declared the supremacy of N95s over all other masks, would take issue with a minor-league celebrity answering a question on his blog, explaining why he wears masks at indoor gatherings, and using his platform and near-non-existent fame to normalize wearing masks at public events to ward off illness. Note that the mask he was wearing, which looks to me like a KF94, is what I myself wear.

The thing about KF94 and KN95 masks: they block particles going in and out, unlike a surgical which only blocks particles going out. When you wear a surgical mask, you need everyone else to wear one too or you might as well not wear it at all. When you wear a KF94 or a KN95, you don't need anyone else around you to wear one; the protection is going both ways. To wear one of these masks is to tell everyone around you that your measures are for you and sufficient for you.

I'll respond to the other stuff in the STAR TREK thread when the Pfizer isn't hitting me as hard, but if you dislike Wil Wheaton, I am absolutely sure he did something to incur your wrath.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I should note: despite my masking with a KF94 in public and outside my private office at work, installing a HEPA air purifier in my private office, bringing a battery powered air purifier to restaurants, and getting a flu shot every year (along with two COVID vaccines every year), I still caught a cold a few weeks ago and still have a lingering post-viral cough. But it is my first cold in three years.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

ireactions wrote:

I should note: despite my masking with a KF94 in public and outside my private office at work, installing a HEPA air purifier in my private office, bringing a battery powered air purifier to restaurants, and getting a flu shot every year (along with two COVID vaccines every year), I still caught a cold a few weeks ago and still have a lingering post-viral cough. But it is my first cold in three years.

Personal note: I have stopped, for the most part, wearing a mask all the time.  I got the new Covid shot (and the flu shot), and I have worn a mask the rare times I've flown on an airplane.  I've gone to sporting events, and I recently saw the Marvels without a mask (which was rare, I've masked up to see every movie I've seen in theaters - as I said in the Disney thread, I saw that movie with almost no notice).  We don't go out to eat a ton or go out in general much, but it's impossible to get my kids to properly mask and I feel like they're more likely to get me sick than a stranger.

I think about it every time I don't mask, though.

What I think is interesting about it from either perspective is that being sick sucks.  Not just Covid or the flu.  Getting any respiratory illness just sucks.  Feeling sick, having a sore throat, having a cough, not being able to breathe out your nose - it's all annoying and debilitating.

And, yeah, during the pandemic lockdown time, none of us got sick.  I don't think I got sick in 2020 or 2021.  Fall, winter, spring, cold and flu season, any of it.  And it was great.

So it's not just Covid virtue signaling.  I think it's a reasonable decision to wear a mask for a couple of hours in exchange for not feeling sick for days/weeks.  It's mildly uncomfortable, but if you're watching a movie or a sporting event or whatever, you'll probably be distracted enough by that not to notice.

2,202 (edited by QuinnSlidr 2023-11-21 08:19:52)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Personal status update:

I have not stopped wearing masks. And I haven't been sick since July of 2019. I also have all of my updated Covid boosters including the most recent one as of October 20, 2023. I continue to wear a KN95 mask every time I go out. Simply because I live with my 67 year old mother who would probably die if I brought home Covid-19.

I went to a work conference last week - the first time I have been in a large crowd (1600+) since the pandemic started. And I wore my mask. But nobody said anything.

Still no illnesses in this house since 2019. I like not being sick.

I don't find masks uncomfortable at all. Not even mildly. Takes me 1 second to put on, 1 second to remove. Good trade-off to protect others. I'll do it. Even with hearing aids in both ears.

2,203 (edited by ireactions 2023-11-23 19:22:11)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

MODERATOR NOTE: ireactions here. This post contains misinformation about the efficacy of masks and vaccines. This is not acceptable. This poster is warned not to post further misinformation about masks and vaccines going forward.

This post further declares that only sexual abuse counts as child abuse. This minimization and dismissiveness of other forms of abuse is outrageous and unacceptable. This poster is warned not to minimize the experiences of abuse survivors going forward.

ireactions wrote:

I'm finding some of this baffling. I recognize that Wil Wheaton has offended you due to his behaviour at fan gatherings. You're someone who pays for the chance to meet actors, and I take it that Wheaton has failed to give you a good experience on at least one occasion. I have never met Wheaton and don't know what he's like in person, I've only read his books, and I've recently been informed that the writer is not their writing. I am sorry that you had a bad experience with Wheaton.

However, I don't see why you, someone who regularly declared the supremacy of N95s over all other masks, would take issue with a minor-league celebrity answering a question on his blog, explaining why he wears masks at indoor gatherings, and using his platform and near-non-existent fame to normalize wearing masks at public events to ward off illness. Note that the mask he was wearing, which looks to me like a KF94, is what I myself wear.

The thing about KF94 and KN95 masks: they block particles going in and out, unlike a surgical which only blocks particles going out. When you wear a surgical mask, you need everyone else to wear one too or you might as well not wear it at all. When you wear a KF94 or a KN95, you don't need anyone else around you to wear one; the protection is going both ways. To wear one of these masks is to tell everyone around you that your measures are for you and sufficient for you.

I'll respond to the other stuff in the STAR TREK thread when the Pfizer isn't hitting me as hard, but if you dislike Wil Wheaton, I am absolutely sure he did something to incur your wrath.

Celebrities are hypocrites, and hilariously bad ones at that.  Wil Wheaton is at the top of this list.  This really has nothing to do with his masking, it's just the person.  He was once a working young actor, and when his career dried up, he pivoted to what he does over the last few decades and good for him.  However, a large part of what he does now, career wise, is playing victim.  He disowned his entire family, which in and of itself is something I personally can't wrap myself around.  They didn't sexually abuse him.  They had him work as an actor and supposedly took advantage of him finally, and for that he relates them all to the Devil, even his siblings who had nothing to do with that.  Again, this is Wil's shtick.  He charges a laughable price at conventions, where again, don't go near him.  He's miserable even when you go to get his autograph. 

MODERATOR FACT CHECK: This poster is falsely claiming that children are only truly abused if they are sexually abused. This is completely false. Children can be abused and exploited in many ways, from labour exploitation, financial exploitation, assault without sexual assault, emotional abuse, neglect, gaslighting, and more, and just because this poster can't wrap their head around it doesn't mean these forms of abuse don't exist. Furthermore, any survivor of abuse has the right to cut off contact from their abuser, and any survivor of abuse has the right to tell their stories, regardless of this poster's approval or disapproval.

Resources on forms of child abuse:

https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/chil … hild-abuse

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/241532

If one wishes to wear a mask everywhere, that's that person's choice, same as getting the vaccine.  I truly have massive regret in how that was handled.  I think the mandates were un-American, and frankly Dr. Fauci should have been fired by Trump but he was too afraid of being blamed for the virus.  The "science" on masking as well as vaccines has progressively been less and less agreeable to the mandates on both.  Even the vaunted N95 masks are not going to protect you over a reasonable period of time from airborne disease.  It's great that QuinnSlidr has not been sick, but there are a multitude of factors beyond masking that may be the reason for that.  Boosters IMO, ehhh, it's like the flu shot, probably worthwhile for the elderly or immune compromised but really of little benefit for the general public.  The fact these CDC doctors continue to pronounce what is or is not advisable with what is still absolute questionable data is ridiculous. 

Again, I am not some crazy Trumper here, but the way the pandemic was handled was an outright disaster.  The damage done to children's schooling, the mentally ill and addicted, not to mention the economic repercussions.  The massive inflation, which is now subsiding but still will cost Joe Biden in 2024, is a direct result of that.  The problem was Trump was too hated and untrustworthy on the subject.  China is still an economic disaster as the result of their policies.  You cannot stop the world over a virus.  There will be more of them.  More and more.  The level of pollution, treatment of animals, global warming, and idiotic garbage like "gain of function" research promoted by the medical elites (such as Fauci) will trigger additional epidemics.  Pandemics happen due to public policy, there's really no actual reason to have them.  Civilization was not at risk. 

Personally, I'll wear a mask in a hospital, because the germs are out of control, nowhere else.  Done with them, I threw them out.  Done with boosters, their efficacy simply isn't proven.

MODERATOR FACT CHECK: Masks with electrostatic filtering and a good seal are effective in filtering viral particles from inhalation. It's a technology that's existed since 1907 and is used in surgical masks, KN95 masks, N95 masks and KF94 masks. Please rely on medically and scientifically verified sources for information on masks.

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-car … -work-best

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrost … ecipitator

COVID-19 and flu vaccines are effective at mitigating infection, symptoms, and preventiong hospitalization and death. Please rely on medically and scientifically verified sources for information on vaccines.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/unders … avaccines/

https://www.nfid.org/news-updates/media … 24-season/

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Sorry Grizzlor, but most of what you're spouting is right wing anti-vaxx propaganda. You might not be a crazy Trumper, but what you're saying is rooted in that propaganda. They aren't facts.

Dr. Fauci is a hero for everything he has done for us.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor, your post is unacceptable. It's one thing to have a negative opinion about a public figure, although it's beyond me why your own family relationships would have any bearing whatsoever on how Wil Wheaton relates to his. But your misinformation on masks and vaccination will not be tolerated.

Masks with electrostatic filtering and a good seal are effective in filtering viral particles from inhalation. It's a technology that's existed since 1907 and is used in surgical masks, KN95 masks, N95 masks and KF94 masks. To claim otherwise is lying, deceitful, fraudulent misinformation. This will not be allowed here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrost … ecipitator

https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-car … -work-best

mRNA vaccines are effective in mitigating infection, lessening symptoms and preventing hospitalization and death by introducing messenger ribonucleic acid that corresponds to a protein in the outer membrane of a virus, teaching the human immune system to recognize the presence of that virus and create an antibody response. Each new mRNA vaccine has been retailored to more recent mutations of COVID-19.

Flu shots in 2023 use deactivated or weakened versions of circulating flu viruses to train the immune system to develop antibodies as well. They These vaccines are also effective at mitigating severity, hospitalization and death.

Furthermore, to call the 2023 COVID vaccines a "booster" is severely misinformed; a booster is to increase existing immunity. The updated COVID-vaccine for newer variants is effectively a new COVID vaccine, much in the same way a flu shot each year is not a "booster" on the previous year.

https://medlineplus.gov/genetics/unders … avaccines/

https://www.nfid.org/news-updates/media … 24-season/

It's one thing to say the pandemic wasn't well-managed, to disagree with mask mandates and vaccine mandates and lockdowns, to say that viruses are inevitable, to say that you yourself no longer mask and get vaccinations. Those are about your own conduct and your own opinion. But flat out misinformation will not be tolerated. Consider this a moderator warning.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

I wanted to take a few days to mull this over this other item, one of the more absurd and ridiculous things I have ever seen on this message board (yes, more ridiculous than my fanfic or confessionals):

Grizzlor wrote:
Wil Wheaton is at the top of this list.  This really has nothing to do with his masking, it's just the person.  He was once a working young actor, and when his career dried up, he pivoted to what he does over the last few decades and good for him.  However, a large part of what he does now, career wise, is playing victim.  He disowned his entire family, which in and of itself is something I personally can't wrap myself around.  They didn't sexually abuse him.  They had him work as an actor and supposedly took advantage of him finally, and for that he relates them all to the Devil, even his siblings who had nothing to do with that.  Again, this is Wil's shtick.

This ridiculous quote from Grizzlor claims that the only form of child abuse is sexual abuse. This is completely false both sociologically and legally. Child abuse can take on many forms: physical and mental abuse, emotionally abuse, gaslighting, neglect, labour exploitation, and more. To claim otherwise is false information and will not be allowed here either. Consider this another moderator warning.

https://www.healthyplace.com/abuse/chil … hild-abuse
https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/241532

Grizzlor's comments are an insult to every survivor of child abuse. They are an insult towards me.

Furthermore, Grizzlor, your summary of Wheaton's grievances against his family show you have zero awareness of his issues with them: how they stole his STAR TREK residuals, left him struggling to pay for food and housing, perpetually on the verge of homelessness, and left him in that situation over over a decade until he discovered they had been intercepting his residuals.

You touch on none of that, which means that you are either willfully ignoring the facts (the way you have ignored the facts of how vaccines and masks work as specified in the studies with immunologists to which you linked before you became an anti-vaxxer) -- or you're just presenting yet another uninformed, off the cuff reaction like when you insulted LOWER DECKS before you'd seen it and insulted PRODIGY despite having never seen it.

In addition to Wheaton's family stealing his STAR TREK residuals, they also lent him money and demanded he pay it back with interest; he later discovered that money he was paying back was his own residual payments. Wheaton has plenty of reason for Wheaton to cut off contact. And then we have your asinine take:

Grizzlor wrote:
He disowned his entire family, which in and of itself is something I personally can't wrap myself around.

Who exactly died and put you in charge of evaluating whether or not people should maintain relationships with abusive family members? Has the self-importance of posing for photos with the cast of SLIDERS gone to your head?

Who appointed you the chieftain of whether or not Wil Wheaton talks to his abusive family, or whether or not I talk to mine? Who the hell do you think you are?

I took a few days to look into this, and I am not obligated to keep in touch with my abusive relatives. No one is obligated to maintain any relationship they don't want to have just to stay within the realm of what Grizzlor can wrap his head around, not anyone, not me, and certainly not Wil Wheaton.

It is beyond me why you have simply decided, because you don't like Wil Wheaton, that he could not possibly have been abused as a child. It is outrageous that as far as you are concerned, the only abuse a child can suffer is sexual abuse, and that any other parental abuse is not really abuse and that survivors shouldn't speak about it or cease contact with their abuser because you can't wrap your head around it.

Grizzlor, you declaring that only sexual abuse is real abuse is misinformation on the same level as providing public health misinformation that masks don't work and vaccines don't work.

Those are lies that can harm others because they encourage people not to protect their rights, to tolerate assault and abuse, and to not safeguard their own well-being. It has no place on any internet forum that has any concern for truth.

It's one thing for you to ignorantly brag about not liking LOWER DECKS (when you hadn't watched it) and PRODIGY (when you haven't watched it), or to ignorantly claim that radioplays are a substitute for TV, or to ignorantly declare that Marvel would make more money from movies if they sold all their movie rights to Sony and FOX so that Sony and FOX could make all the movies and the money from the movies (think about it). That's harmless in itself.

And it was even relatively harmless when you ignorantly claimed that only NIOSH-approved N95 masks were protective (when electrostatic filtration is not exclusive to N95 masks) because you were recommending excellent masks even if you were ignorantly dismissing other masks. But now your ignorant attitude has turned to dismissing the facts of child abuse and public health which are real and serious situations.

Your misinformation regarding child abuse is not acceptable. I will be editing your post to add my apologies to anyone who has to witness your appalling conduct and increasingly deranged behaviour here.

Maybe you should stick to posting your celebrity photos and attacking STAR TREK shows you haven't watched.

2,207 (edited by ireactions 2023-12-01 14:41:26)

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

MODERATOR WARNING: This post contains misrepresentations of mRNA vaccines and false claims regarding electrostatic masks. The next time this poster makes false claims regarding public health and safety, they will be banned for a week. The next incident will lead to a one month ban. An incident after that will lead to a permanent ban.

I'm sorry, I didn't realize this forum about a television show was in reality a graduate level discussion board at Johns Hopkins.  But I'll play along because you are putting words in my mouth.

1. I know how flu vaccines work, they are developed based on data from each hemisphere, because it's winter in one, and summer in the other.  The vaccine companies then use this data to HEDGE repeat HEDGE on which flu strains they expect to be most prevalent.  I've gotten plenty of flu shots, and I know that sometimes they guess wrong and you aren't very protected.  Oh well, it is what it is. 

MODERATOR NOTE FOR ADDITIONAL INFORMATION: This poster is dismissing the value of flu shots as formulated by guesswork. Flu shots are formulated based on extensive surveillance and forecasting data across 114 countries in the World Health Organization (WHO) Global Influenza Surveillance and Response System. It is not completely accurate forecasting, but it is not random guesswork. Due to numerous strains of influenza, the annual flu shot cannot offer complete protection, and strains not within the annual shot may arise. Statistically, a flu shot still reduces the risk of illness among the overall population by 40 to 60 percent and is worthwhile protection.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm


2. I never said anything about flu vaccines previoiusly, and those are NOT mRNA vaccines anyway.  Now, when it comes to COVID vaccines, after the first vaccines were passed by FDA, subsequent iterations are tested only in a lab, that's called a PRECLINICAL trial.  They are NOT tested on humans.  Furthermore, they are tested on the "currently circulating" virus, and as we have seen with COVID, it mutates quickly, like any coronovirus does, and so the vaccine being administered are, ironically, like flu vaccines, just targeting what the researchers decide is their best guess.  Again, this is fine, and anyone who wishes to take it is fine by me.  In terms of efficacy of those vaccines, the only clinical trials were conducted on people and released back in December 2020, as I said before.  At the time, the vaccines had tremendous performance against the pre-Delta/Omicron COVID strands.  Once it mutated to those, the vaccines at the time had large drops in effectiveness, so out came the "boosters."  Which by the way, is not my term, that is the term the media and even pharma uses on Covid vaccines!  What you are currently being sold, by pharmaceuticals, is NOT clinically tested, and neither you nor I can actually claim efficacy  because there has not been actual human research.  Lab research IMO is not sufficient, because most things that work in a petri dish do not work in human trial.  Any researcher would admit to this. 

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid … comparison

MODERATOR FACT CHECK: This poster has falsely characterized new mRNA vaccines as not responsive to current versions of COVID-19. This is false.

New mRNA vaccines are reformulated to target the lineage of recent COVID-19 variants, a lineage from which currently circulating variants of COVID-19 would have emerged. The original mRNA vaccine mechanism of spike protein generation for immune system response against the original COVID-19 virus has proven effective over the course of mass distribution beginning in 2021.

The reformulated vaccines, while not a perfect match to currently circulating variants, have sufficient efficiency from lineage targeting to recognize the new variants and create an immune system response.

While the immune response is imperfect, it is sufficient to ward off severe illness, hospitalization, and death.

https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/what- … inter-2023

This poster's protest that the specific reformulated vaccine has not received full human trials is unreasonable for a vaccine that must be reformulated every 6 - 12 months. The underlying mRNA vaccine technology has been tested since 2013, the underlying COVID-19 vaccine technology has been further reviewed during the urgent roll-out of 2021 and continues to this day.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRNA_vaccine

3. You technically agreed with what I said about masks.  If you're not wearing an N95, you are likely unprotected.
Secondly, you completely passed right over what I said about the other mitigating factors in regards to disease prevention and spread.  People who are healthy, mask, vaccine, or not, have been proven to have an extremely lower level of risk from infectious disease.  It's simple biology.  Those who are not, probably should consider things like vaccines and/or masks.  I could just as easily argue that COVID's "decrease" is due to "herd immunity," and the wearing of masks is now unnecessary.  Given that mandates have stopped pretty much everywhere, I'd not be wrong, no?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC10446908/

But to be "scientific," here is the NIH study of other studies on the subject of mask efficacy, in terms of wearing, types, and the mandates.  They found that most of the studies were problematic, because they were observational rather than experimental.  Now I HATED reading these kinds of materials in grad school, but the Results section you will find that the studies were flawed and the results were all across the board.  So before you "moderate" me for saying the science is not settled on these things, perhaps you can admit the science is NOT settled?  Which was my point.  Do masks work?  Obviously YES they work to some degree, I'm not an idiot.  The science however, is simply not conclusively proven, because there are again, a multitude of environmental factors.  It's called everyday life, and while anyone is free to wear a mask, I am also free to continue to doubt that choice.  Same as those who shout about the undeniable health benefits of being a vegan, which again, not conclusive that fully eliminating meat products is the way to go.

MODERATOR FACT CHECK: This poster claims that only N95 masks offer protection. This is false.

Masks with electrostatic filtering and a good seal are effective in filtering viral particles from inhalation. Electrostatic filtration is a technology that has existed since 1907 and is used in surgical masks, KN95 masks, N95 masks and KF94 masks. Electrostatic filtration is not limited to N95 masks.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr … espirators

This poster cites "mitigating factors". These factors have no bearing on the proven filtration efficacy of well-sealed electrostatic masks in blocking particles, droplets and aerosols from being inhaled by a mask wearer.

4. We come to Mr. Wheaton, and you know what, yes, you are absolutely correct, I was LAZY, and didn't research his multitude of claims.  I have in fact heard them all, because I heard him on Rosenbaum's podcast recount them all.  Again, it was laziness.  However, I would never discount child abuse and its lasting effects intentionally.  I do apologize if that's how it came across, and that is the ONLY thing I'm apologizing for writing here.

In conclusion, you can "moderate" all you like, but in my opinion, pointing to an article which itself is merely a collection of best recommendations, as if that is scientific law, is acceptable?  How is my questioning the lack of high level scientific consensus "misinformation?"  When as I showed, the scientists themselves can't agree on most any of this.  I really DON'T feel like discussing viruses and masks here regardless, but I also defend the first amendment, there is no more important human right. 

QuinnSlidr wrote:

Sorry Grizzlor, but most of what you're spouting is right wing anti-vaxx propaganda. You might not be a crazy Trumper, but what you're saying is rooted in that propaganda. They aren't facts.

Dr. Fauci is a hero for everything he has done for us.

He was once a "hero" during the AIDS era.  Since that point, he's been a bureaucrat, which is fine.  He was in a no-win situation given the President was a complete moron.  He DID preface most of what he advised as simply that, best-guesses.  He tried to be optimistic.

Where Fauci was dead wrong was in directed massive funds to gain of function research, which was going on in Wuhan because you couldn't get that kind of madness passed a regulator in the USA or most of Europe.  Was that the origin of COVID?  Very possibly.  He and even Trump tried to dispel that notion, when in reality there should have been immediate and loud criticism of China.  They couldn't do that, because their hands were "dirty."  Let me say this, I don't know when, but there will come a reckoning to which the "work" of Fauci's NIH gain of function research is placed right alongside garbage like MK Ultra.  No one will ever be brought to justice over that, of course, that's the American way. 

IMO, he failed in his role as chief bureaucrat of NIH.  His ethical compass was compromised, at some point.  He has been dismissive of actual medical criticism over the years, alleged by scores of reputable and unbiased researchers in his own field.  You can call that conspiratorial if you like, but it's based on well-known public information.  He's no hero.  Not a fan of being labeled a propagandist when again, the science is not settled.  Being anti-vaxx would be these people who scream about autism or that microchips are being implanted.  Those have zero basis in fact.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Dr. Fauci is still a hero, Grizzlor. Despite what republicans want to say to further their BS agenda. Everything above is a right wing extremist lie.

You just went off the deep end about free speech, and you expect me to take you seriously?

To be as polite as possible, Grizzlor, but sorry - you're dead wrong. And your side will always be wrong, because all republicans can do is lie.

Re: American Politics: Discuss and Debate

Grizzlor's laughably and willfully poor reading comprehension on masks continues:

Grizzlor wrote:

You technically agreed with what I said about masks.  If you're not wearing an N95, you are likely unprotected.

Grizzlor, you are lying. Since 2021, I've written post after post about how you are completely wrong to claim only N95 masks work:

https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 774#p11774
https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 776#p11776
https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 778#p11778
https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 780#p11780
https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 783#p11783

Posted by me in 2022:

ireactions wrote:
https://sliders.tv/bboard/viewtopic.php … 267#p13267

One of the things that I found bizarre and likely due to low information: a lot of people declared that any non-N95 mask was worthless and couldn't protect. That's like saying that any non-Ford car can't start.

N95 may be the most well-known brand and Ford may have been the most prominent car, but prominence isn't exclusivity. Ford isn't the sole manufacturer of internal combustion engines and the electrostatic filtering is not restricted to N95 masks.

N95 masks are not the only mask that protects. Lots of masks have electrostatic filtration, a proven means of mitigating viral transmission by filtering droplet and aerosol transmission. It's existed since 1907, used in everything from air conditioning to KF94 masks, KN95 masks, surgical masks and N95 masks. Electrostatic filters catch viral particles, that's a fact of basic engineering. The filtration is unaffected by your ranting about individual health conditions and your weird brand loyalty to N95s.

You're just lying.

Grizzlor wrote:

We come to Mr. Wheaton, and you know what, yes, you are absolutely correct, I was LAZY, and didn't research his multitude of claims.  I have in fact heard them all, because I heard him on Rosenbaum's podcast recount them all

Grizzlor, you've been informed repeatedly, by me, of Wil Wheaton's claims against his family in the STAR TREK thread on two separate occasions. You also confess to listening to Wheaton's claims in a podcast, so you were fully aware of his claims.

Yet, you claim you were ignorant of Wheaton's family issues in the same paragraph where you describe listening to them. You are lying.

I don't know why you're engaging in such clumsy and transparent lying, like you think I can't scroll up or re-read previous posts or previous sentences.

**

Regarding vaccine efficiency, Grizzlor has shifted goalposts to claim that without human trials, a vaccine should be considered useless. This would be an impossible standard that would prevent every annual vaccine from being updated in time to save anyone from illness, and it ignores that the underlying technology is under constant review. Such a standard only serves Grizzlor's anti-vaxxer fervor.

The flu vaccine has 40 - 60 percent efficiency in reducing influenza because it's based on forecasting what flu viruses will be circulating which doesn't always match reality. It's not random guesswork as Grizzlor claims, but based on extensive surveillance data. While it can be overcome by strains of influenza outside the annual shot, a 40 - 60 percent reduction in chance of illness is worth the dose.

Updated mRNA vaccines are engineered based on the lineage of previous variants. The current 2023 COVID vaccine isn't engineered for the presently dominant variant, but it's targeting its very-recent ancestry. Antibodies for recent-past variants, while not able to prevent infection in current strains, have sufficient cross-application to ward off severe illness, hospitalization and death.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/vaccines-work/vaccineeffect.htm
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/what- … inter-2023
https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/updat … gs-to-know

As a seventh dose recipient of a COVID-19 vaccine, I am still completing regular questionnaires for ongoing study of this vaccine.

Grizzlor is demanding advance clinical results that no annually and bi-annually reformulated vaccine can offer. It's a specious, disingenuous argument, effectively a lie.

In terms of masks, Grizzlor's claims are lies or red herrings: he cites the absence of mask mandates, refers to COVID statistics, none of which have any bearing on a simple fact: electrostatic filters are effective at filtering viruses.

**

You know, Grizzlor, if you're going to lie to me, at least lie competently.

Grizzlor wrote:

November 21, 2023
the flu shot, probably worthwhile for the elderly or immune compromised but really of little benefit for the general public.

Grizzlor wrote:

November 30, 2023
I never said anything about flu vaccines previoiusly,

Wow. That's so blunderingly inept that it's funny.

And while it's hilarious, a fumbling, clownish, deranged ignoramus like you has no business (or ability) to speak on public health. You are so disordered and disoriented that you can't even keep track of your own writing from sentence to sentence.

Public health is not a subject for your bumbling incompetence. Public health isn't STAR TREK or JOHN WICK or MORTAL KOMBAT or SLIDERS. Public health actually matters.

Grizzlor, if you continue to falsely claim that vaccines don't work or masks don't work and discourage people from masks or vaccination, you will be banned for a week. A second violation will see you banned for 30 days. A third violation will be your last.

Moderation, like electrostatic filtration and spike protein recognition, doesn't require your respect in order to work.