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Maybe this will happen later in the season, but I was sorta hoping they'd have more fun with the alternate worlds on the show like Fringe did.  Is the only difference between Earth 1 and Earth 2 who the Flash is?  Why haven't the writers taken advantage of differences in pop culture, history, etc?  I'd also like to see them move beyond Earth 2.  The rumor about the Smallville earth was probably far-fetched, but they could play around with the idea of going to a world with Superman (even if they just see a shadow flying above the city) or any of the other heroes they aren't allowed to feature. 

I know, on a Sliders board, I'm going to suggest more parallel universe stuff, but it seems like the writers aren't having as much fun with the concept as they could be.

Watched this movie last night.  I thought it was interesting (and stars Danielle Panabaker from "Flash") and well done.  However, a bunch of things bugged me about it.  It was made last year (and seems to be present day) but the one guy was using a flip phone - was it supposed to take place in the past?  And why were they making money on televised dog races?  I also wasn't sure why any of those people were friends :-)  It's like they thought through a lot of the time travel stuff, but they didn't think through any of the non-time travel stuff.

I'm also not sure why Callie's character thought she could retroactively change the past when I don't think that's how any of the characters saw the time travel working the entire movie.

But it was entertaining.

I thought both premieres were very strong.  I felt that Flash followed up with their first season pretty well (although the way they handled the singularity was a bit botched IMO).  I'm interested to see what Jay Garrick brings to the table, and I'm interested in both Zoom and whatever happens with Dr. Wells.

Arrow was very good, I thought.  Bringing in mysticism, making Oliver the Green Arrow finally, the new team dynamic, making Lance a bit of a villain - all cool moves.  I even felt like we had the old Felicity back.  Should be a much better season.

Although, mirroring my Jerome/Joker thoughts - the official Arrowverse continuity is that Roy Harper was the Arrow and now a new guy is a semi-copycat of him as the Green Arrow?  I like the way that evolved, but it's kinda weak that Star City's greatest hero is just holding someone else's mantle.

Yeah I was relieved to see that, but the end montage sorta spoiled it for me.  I read in a review that said that, no matter what, the Joker ends up being a Jerome copycat more than an original character.  Or, in a way, a coincidence.  I've always sorta liked the "Killing Joke" version of Joker who is driven to madness by "one bad day."  Any version of Joker who's already crazy, or worse, inspired by someone else - is just sorta weak to me.

But they were true to their word, and I have to give that to them.

By the way, whatever happened to the Ivy character?  She was on all the promotional materials, played a big part in the pilot, randomly showed up again in season one, and she hasn't been seen/mentioned since.

Well, they're going to do an animated Spider-Man movie.  If that works, it could mean that an animated superhero movie could work.  But as far as I know, the only movie that tried that was Batman: Mask of the Phantasm, and they didn't repeat that model with the second Batman: TAS movie, so it couldn't have gone overwhelmingly well.

No, for sure.  But I wonder if there are more people who check those sites vs. people who are just going to log on to Netflix one day, see a giant ad for Jessica Jones, and decide then and there whether to watch it or not.  It'll have the Marvel logo, it'll have the "Netflix Original Program" emblem.  And people will give it a shot.

And don't forget, it'll be out there a while.  This isn't a movie that needs to have a big opening weekend to be successful or a show that airs weekly.  Even if there were no trailers or bad-looking trailers, if the show was good, word of mouth would spread and people would be free to watch from the beginning at their leisure.

I'm not saying you're wrong.  Maybe the footage of what they've shot is terrible.  Maybe they know the show will suck, and they're trying to hide it as long as possible.  But without any evidence either way, I just suspect that the trailer campaign will have little-to-no impact on how the show performs.

I'll watch.  But almost certainly in a "Iron Man was so good that I have to watch Thor" kind of way.  Jessica Jones seems like an interesting idea for a character from what I've read, but it's not something I'm going to knock down the door to watch.  Heck, I was really excited about Daredevil but still took more than a month to watch it.

(and I'm guessing they're right)

I watched it On Demand.  Or on the website.  http://www.nbc.com/heroes-reborn/dark-matters/episodes

That's pretty awesome customer service if that gets done.

Damn, I meant to add that. I would definitely like to see that.  Something (relatively) intimate wouldn't require the League to gather, which would also not require the "where is Superman?" that people would ask.

The problem is that these are gods.  And the only way to challenge a god is with another god.  Humans vs. Superman haven't really made good movies - the only ones people seem to like are ones with Zod in them.  Same with Flash or Wonder Woman, although their rogues' galleries are a little more obscure.  Green Lantern can just be sent into space.  Same with Martian Manhunter if he ever gets a solo film.  Aquaman could take place entirely underwater.

Well, again, I think there needs to be more explanation in the DCCU than in the MCU.  I agree that they need to do a better job of standing up as movies, but there's a big difference between the Avengers and the Justice League.  And that difference is POWER.

Any member of the Justice League could destroy the entire Avengers lineup.  Thor is probably the most powerful of the Avengers, and his "godliness" has been downplayed.  He's just a strong "human" with "strong science/magic" aiding him.

Every member of the Justice League, outside of Batman, is a GOD.  Both Flash and Superman could eliminate/kill every member of the Avengers (including/especially) Quicksilver before they even know what was happening.  Green Lantern could contain/imprison everyone in constructs and fling them all into space.  Wonder Woman has the strength/invulnerability of the Hulk with the agility of Iron Man and the fighting prowess of Thor.  Martian Manhunter is basically Superman with the ability to shape-shift and phase through anything.  Batman wins because Batman.

If Iron Man runs into a big problem, Thor can't just show up because he's in Asgard.  Hulk could show up but he might be on the other side of the country/world and needs transport.  And that applies to any of them.  They handle their own stuff because, most of the time, it takes time for the Avengers to assemble.

If Joker is about to blow up Gotham, Superman can be there in one second.  It doesn't matter where he was, he has godly speed.  So does Flash.  The other guys also have superhuman speed or the ability to travel at superhuman speeds.  It would be flat-out irresponsible for any of the Justice League not to call the others.  And it wouldn't be because they weren't capable or pride.  It's simply because, if the stakes are high enough, there are probably others better suited for the job.  Or, at least, as backup.

I know in comic books there's a sort of understanding in comics that you let the hometown hero take care of crime in that city.  So Superman lets Batman do his thing.  Green Lantern lets Flash do his thing.  But is Superman seriously sitting on his couch in Metropolis watching Penguin set off a nuke?  Is Flash really in a coffee shop while the Sinestro kills 25,000 people? 

That's what worries me.

Well if we're talking about fanfic as opposed to actual episodes, then we could get some bizarre stuff.  And I imagine if interdimensional travel, it'd be much more likely that we'd see something bizarre as opposed to something familiar.

I think my fear for any alternate species would be it becoming Planet of the Apes.  Human sliders show up....dominant species takes them prisoner....maybe experiments on them....compassionate scientist takes pity on them...escape....end of episode.  I don't know if there's many more stories than that.  If intelligent mutated elephants came to our world, that's exactly what would happen.  Even if they were benevolent, I think curiosity wins every time.

It's definitely a fun idea, though.

Yeah, I just like Landis and wanted to support his movie.  He had this ramble the other day about Nightwing that I really liked.  Not so much about the rambling itself but just the happiness in his face as he talks about it.  He LOVES this stuff.  LOVES story.  LOVES these characters.  They're real to him, and he's fascinated.  Something about that is really cool in a childlike innocence way.

(Also I love Nightwing.  In my opinion, he's the only comic book character who's ever been allowed to grow for some reason, and that's awesome to me).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCBMGKc78qI

Well that's the other thing that might've hurt it.  The main character is a stoner, but it's not really the point of the movie.  It's more of a "this guy is a stoner who works at a convenience store - how can he be Jason Bourne" more than anything.  He's high a lot and talks about getting high when he's trying to understand what's going on, but the movie moves beyond it at some point.  It isn't played for laughs like in Harold and Kumar, and after the movie gets going, you see that it's more medication than anything else.

Because I'm the same way.  I don't do drugs and don't really think they're all that funny.

And I guess that's an issue with marketing it - the stoner aspect is there, but it's not the whole story.

So I saw American Ultra today.  Max Landis wrote it (and as I've said before, I'm a fan of his).  It was a fun movie - characters seemed real and 3-dimensional, there was action and heart, and it was just a fun ride.  Had the feel of another Eisenberg movie - Zombieland - and I think it *should* have that same level of success.  But it hasn't - there were five people in the theater I saw it in (granted, it was 1pm on a Saturday).  Landis went on a rant saying that the movie was beat by a few movies, all of which were sequels or remakes.  Claims that it's this kind of stuff that makes Hollywood pump out more unoriginal films.  Went on another rant the other day about the dangers of sites like Rotten Tomatoes.  American Ultra is currently at 47% there.

Anyone seen it?  If not, were you interested?  A lot of times, issues where good movies get bad results are due to marketing.  But I feel like the movie was marketed pretty well - I thought it would be a bit more druggie but it wasn't.  They're stoners but it's not necessarily their entire characters.  The whole cast is good and recognizable.

I thought it was well done, all around.  If it seems like your kind of thing, go support it.  I'm sure every dollar helps.

Well I can't imagine I can be any clearer that I have NO idea what makes a good FF movie

Well I don't read FF comics.  What aspects are non-negotiable when making a movie?  Does it have to be over-the-top goofy?  Do the Four have to be celebrities?  Does Reed have to be an inventor?  Does Doom have to be the center of all villainous plots?

I'd break the story down to it's basest elements and go from there.  I'm sure WB would love to fix Clark Kent's disguise, but it's iconic even if it's ridiculous.  If Superman wore a mask to protect the Clark Kent identity, then he wouldn't be Superman anymore.  So every iteration of Superman has to start with "Okay, Clark Kent wears glasses and that's his disguise.  We can't worry about that.  Now what?"

So ireactions - and I'm genuinely asking this question - is it possible to do a Fantastic Four movie in 2015 era times?  In your opinion, is the concept possible?  Because after reading more of this, I watched some youtube reviews - and everyone is talking about giving the rights back to Marvel.  And yeah - they've done a pretty good job with the Avengers - but it's not like they're infallible.  Iron Man 2, both Thor movies, Cap 1, Iron Man 3 - these aren't great movies.  I still haven't seen Ant-Man, and Avengers 2 was underwhelming.  We don't know what they're going to do with Spider-Man.

Can we trust that Marvel will do better than Fox?  Based on Ant-Man, we know that studio interference won't be any less.

The pieces were in place in 2005 and 2015 for a good Fantastic Four movie.  Is the source material too flawed to get it right?

Again, I haven't seen the movie.  But every review I've read has said the same thing - the origin isn't the problem.  I've seen nothing but praise for the first portion of the movie.  The part that fails, supposedly, is the superhero part. 

One thing that I've always had issue with is Doom.  I've heard he's supposedly the biggest bad of all the bads in the primary Marvel universe, but what are his powers?  What makes him so powerful?  How come I can't think of a single big-time Marvel event (granted, I don't know a ton) where he even participates?

I've seen the 2005 movie and the sequel and his powers are electricity?  Manipulation of some kind?  Being evil?  It's like he's a male Scarlet Witch - his powers are just whatever the plot demands.  And I've heard the same sort of power ambiguity exists in the new movie.

I think Fox's best bet is to absorb them into X-Men somehow.  Or, heck, do TF's idea and do a FF show instead of an X-Men show.  Or combine the two.

I don't know if the new version can meld with mutants or not.  If not, do FF science and send them to the Marvel universe.  Let them hang out with Channing Tatum's Gambit (who I assume will be the star of the X-Men franchise when Jackman retires).  Let them fight whatever new villain they decide to use going forward.  Team them up with minor mutants.  Put Johnny in a "main" X-Men movie.  But try and get some of the good-natured X-Men mojo associated with Fantastic Four.

That's what I'd do.  I definitely wouldn't reboot again.

I'm a big fan of Max - he actually wrote a feature-length script about the Spider-Man villain Shocker, which is online.  He also wrote an absurdly long script for a Mario Bros movie, and I loved his take on Death of Superman (available on youtube - separate from his re-enactment of Death of Superman, which is also on youtube).  He wrote a stand-alone Superman comic where he faces off against the Joker - and it's been recreated a couple times on youtube (once as a radio-type show with Max doing the voices himself), and he's going to do another Superman comic soon (featuring a retelling of the origin I believe).

He's said that his FF script would've been fun and goofy.  That Doom would've been a good guy (at least in the first one).  He seems conflicted on releasing more than just those pages because he knows Trank (and I assume Jordan) from working on Chronicle.  He's tried to use the publicity of his script to get people to actually go see the one in theatres.  I don't think he's commented on the film itself, mostly because he probably doesn't want to bag on it.

Oh well we can't agree there.  If you want to talk about making a movie to secure rights, I think ASM is up there with the Roger Corman Fantastic Four movie.  I think Andrew Garfield was a really good Spider-Man, but those movies were pretty much disastrous in my mind.  I think Marc Webb had good intentions, but it's the worst parts of the MCU and Raimi's trilogy come to life. 

You want to talk about universe-building hurting a franchise?  If you thought Captain America: The First Avenger and Iron Man 2 were bad?  At least people wanted to see an Avengers movie.  ASM2 is basically a prequel for a Sinister Six movie that no one asked for.  It suffered from the same over-saturation that killed Spider-Man 3.  It telegraphed Gwen's death way too much, but it wouldn't give anything else away because of future sequels. 

Not to mention the rampant insanity of completely redoing the origin story.  People give Tobey's Peter crap for "killing" Uncle Ben's killer, but Garfield's Peter doesn't even remember to catch him.  Not only is he not found in the first movie, but the second movie doesn't even acknowledge it.  Uncle Ben's killer gets away.  And the studio cut the movie so much that the other minor villain isn't even dealt with - another loose end. 

ASM and ASM were mildly enjoyable while I was watching them, but they were as forgettable as Thor's solo movies.  And that's saying something.

Do you think it was a mistake to keep Fantastic Four separate and not unite them with some mutants?  I thought that was interesting, since it might've been easier to link them to an already-popular series.

Yeah, I just think "team ups" are more organic than "no team ups".  The only way that I see other heroes staying out is if the stories are more intimate.  Marvel has done a pretty bad job of this because they feel the need to make every threat big (even if the villains are forgettable).

The Arrowverse has done an okay job of this.  Barry shows up when the threat is big enough (and vice versa), but there's an understanding that he'll let Oliver and Team Arrow work on their own when they need to.  That works fine on TV, where the conflict is relatively minimal.  In movies....it usually isn't.  There's usually no need for Superman's help for whatever Batman's facing, but if Doomsday shows up, it'd be all hands on deck.  If there's a Crisis on Infinite Earth, everyone heads there.  No matter what.

There was a really funny post on reddit regarding the Will Smith line "So that's it, huh?  We're just some kind of suicide squad" - the guy said Will Smith should do a cameo in every movie where he says the movie title out loud.  Some of the funnier ones:

"So that's it, huh?  The Force Awakens?"
"So that's it, huh?  We just go Back to the Future?"
"So that's it, huh?  It's just the Dawn of the Planet of the Apes?"
"So that's it, huh?  They just a bunch of Mean Girls?"
"So that's all we do, huh?  Just Eat, Pray, Love?"

and my personal favorite

"So that's it, huh?  Its some sort of Superman 4: The Quest for Peace?"

Well, the color palate is bad.  And I think putting Bruce *in* Metropolis during the attack is a little too on the nose.  And, as per usual, I think they're teasing us with a Batman/Superman confrontation that will be resolved before the 2nd act.  And there's just *WAY TOO MUCH* happening - I just don't see how this movie is either a) unacceptably long or b) edited to a level of near-nonsense.

But as far as getting Superman and Batman fighting each other on the big screen, I'm freakin' satisfied.  The movie might suck, but we'll always have this trailer.

I think it has to.  The footage where Affleck is staring at something in the trailer is probably Metropolis footage and not him staring at the cowl.

Apparently Affleck is writing and directing the Batman solo film.  He's better at either of those things than acting so that's good news.

Okay this might be a terrible idea, but I wanted to throw it out there.

I was thinking about BvS and old Batman vs. young Superman.  And I sorta get it.  I like the idea of a young, impuslive Bruce Wayne thinking he's indestructible and rushing to Metropolis to save the day.  But I think it's sorta implausible for that to be Bruce's inspiration.  So he just throws on a bat costume and goes in?  Nah...it goes against Batman's mythology.  So they'd have to use an established Batman who's already doing it for his own reasons.  But which Batman makes more sense to go?  A young Batman with a couple victories under his belt (think Dark Knight) or an older Batman who's been to war a couple hundred times and thinks he can handle anything?  I think the latter, actually.  And you get as close to Dark Knight Returns as we'll probably ever get live-action.

But what bothers me is this: what's best for BvS isn't necessarily what' best for the DCCU or Justice League.  So here's my idea.  It's probably a terrible idea, definitely not that original, and I haven't thought it through at all.

******
Batman vs. Superman : The SQ21 Edition

GOTHAM - Alfred watches footage of the Battle of Metropolis.  Buildings are falling.  People are dying.  He looks over to the clock that leads to the Batcave.  It's just closed.  Alfred tenuously to the cave and sees (from behind) Bruce putting on the cowl.  "You can't do this.  You can't win.  He's too powerful" Alfred says.  Bruce (still from behind) pauses.  It's clear that he doesn't want to but he has to.  Quick cut to the Batmobile rushing off - still no clear image of the Batman himself.

Months later.  There hasn't been a clear sighting of Superman since the big battle.  The city is coming together, and people are being rescued by what people have to assume is Superman.  Public opinion seems to be turning around on Superman, who seems to be the force of good everyone wants him to be.  But two radical camps are forming - one that worships him as a savior and one that wants him taken down (funded by Lex).  Batman watches on from the Batmobile - still can't see who he is.

Until something happens - cliche plane crash or construction incident where Superman has to stick around long enough to be seen by the public.  He decides to stand and talk to the crowd for a second when an object flies at his head.  Superman easily catches it.  A Batrang.  "We need to talk" with a time and date carved into it.

Superman arrives.  Batman is already there.  And it's finally revealed to be Batfleck.  He's old.  He's a veteran.  He's cautious but confident -he's beaten strong people before.  He's beaten superhumans before.  And he has this super-powerful suit.  Batman talks about danger and power and making sure Clark is who he says he is.  They fight.  It's a draw.

Plot plot plot plot plot.  Lex fights Superman in a suit similar to Bruce's.  Clark confronts Bruce.  They fight and Clark rips off the helmet in the fight.  It's not a similar suit - it's the same suit.  Bruce says he stole it and painted it black.  Added bat ears.  It's Lex's "old suit" - Batfleck is from the future.  Says he came back to set things right.  That he came running to Metropolis when he was younger and fought Clark.  But that young Bruce was too impulsive and Clark was too strong - he broke Bruce's back.  Then things went to Hell.  Unchecked, Clark took drastic measures and ran the world with an iron fist.  And heroes were afraid to step up.  And when "he" finally showed up, the planet wasn't ready.  Bruce used futuretech to heal his back and come back to set things right.  Young Batman is knocked out somewhere.

Old Bruce and Clark team up to fight Lex - Bruce teaches Clark some stuff.  Blah blah blah.  Bruce sacrifices himself to save Clark from Doomsday or Lex or something.  Dies.

Clark goes and finds young Bruce.  They meet.  Clark hands him a message from Bruce to Bruce.  Old Bruce has made a recording for Young Bruce telling him how to be the hero Clark needs him to be.  That troubles are coming, and they need to work together to win.  That he can trust Clark.  Only together can they take down the darkness that is coming.  And there's a few names.  Barry.  Diana.  Hal.  J'onn.  Bruce goes off to find them.

It's basically Star Trek with Bruce instead of Spock.  But they get their cake and get to eat it too - you get a young Batman alongside a young Superman, but you get your DKR stuff.

Info and I live in the same city.  There's a chance I've met him before.  I guess there's a chance we're even friends outside of the board and don't know it